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(Huffington Post)   "We reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the new Congress to invite them on the program to share their views on the subject this morning," ... "We had no takers"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 1019
    More: Sad, congresses, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Louie Gohmert, assault weapons, Michael Bloomberg, senate democrats, Mayor of New York City, Fox News Sunday  
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4954 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Dec 2012 at 5:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-16 01:07:27 PM
One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.
 
2012-12-16 01:10:26 PM
You mean the same group who shiat all over Bob Dole last week, but didn't have the balls to cast their votes out loud and then refused to discuss it? Astonishing!
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 01:14:21 PM
Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?
 
2012-12-16 01:16:35 PM
Obvious tag has no comment
 
2012-12-16 01:18:03 PM
What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!
 
2012-12-16 01:19:43 PM
We really need a pathetic tag.
 
2012-12-16 01:20:08 PM

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


Tards have some awareness of their surroundings.
 
2012-12-16 01:21:54 PM

jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?


Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves
 
2012-12-16 01:31:57 PM

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant
 
2012-12-16 01:34:11 PM
A kindergarten teacher with an M4 would have prevented all of this.
 
2012-12-16 01:39:13 PM
Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.
 
2012-12-16 01:40:01 PM

Azlefty: jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?

Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves


She wants HER gun 24/7, but she doesn't believe that us peasants deserve the same right.
 
2012-12-16 01:40:26 PM

Sgt Otter: ...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant


i47.tinypic.com

"Forget it, he's rolling."
 
2012-12-16 01:40:41 PM

jbc: cowards


Or thugs.
 
2012-12-16 01:48:10 PM

This About That: Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.


To be fair, I've noticed that phrase used more and more lately. I think it's more a stylistic thing than a partisan one. It is a bit jarring, though.
 
2012-12-16 01:54:13 PM

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws. With 300 million of them already out there, it's just a little late. It's like trying to make possession of a used buttplug illegal; nobody really cares, and with one cop per 11,000 citizens, who the f**k, exactly, is going to even manage the inventory of confiscated guns? The cast of Storage Wars?

Gohmert knows this, too, and really, couldn't he take a single f**king day off his teacher-bashing crusade? Just one lousy day?
 
2012-12-16 02:01:07 PM
May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.
 
2012-12-16 02:03:20 PM

coco ebert: I think it's more a stylistic thing


Maybe, but it looks like widespread cynicism to me.
 
2012-12-16 02:12:43 PM

teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.


I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.
 
2012-12-16 02:13:44 PM

MisterTweak: I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws


Democrats remember what happened to them after they passed the assault weapons ban. They took a heavy beating. As long as the Republicans control the House, they know they can propose a new Assault Weapons Ban, but that it will never have enough votes to pass. So, I'm assuming that is what they will try. Hell, the Republicans might even find a way to let it pass by voting present or something and allow the Democrats to lose all the purple areas. They could play it like: "This is what the Democrat Party gave you America. They took your guns. Do you trust them to protect your children?"

I'm sure that it will be highly political and not at all focused on how to reduce these kinds of horrific events.
 
2012-12-16 02:20:37 PM

vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.


You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.
 
2012-12-16 02:25:02 PM

jehovahs witness protection: You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.


The guy next to me firing the 240B tried to take out a 747 and wound up popping off a few rounds hear my face and setting the grass on fire in front of us with a tracer.

Yeah, I would not recommend that.
 
2012-12-16 02:27:35 PM

jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.


Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.
 
2012-12-16 02:28:30 PM

NewportBarGuy: MisterTweak: I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws

Democrats remember what happened to them after they passed the assault weapons ban. They took a heavy beating. As long as the Republicans control the House, they know they can propose a new Assault Weapons Ban, but that it will never have enough votes to pass. So, I'm assuming that is what they will try. Hell, the Republicans might even find a way to let it pass by voting present or something and allow the Democrats to lose all the purple areas. They could play it like: "This is what the Democrat Party gave you America. They took your guns. Do you trust them to protect your children?"

I'm sure that it will be highly political and not at all focused on how to reduce these kinds of horrific events.


I kinda hate it that you're absolutely correct. 535 elected representatives, every single one of them with the ethics of a three-card monte dealer.
 
2012-12-16 02:47:07 PM
Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...
 
2012-12-16 02:55:57 PM

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


Not to mention defending the indefensible.
 
2012-12-16 02:59:19 PM

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


Only a pussy backs down from such a fear. If they hold strong to their convictions, and have a convincing argument, they should be prepared to debate their side on any given Sunday.

Let me guess... mourning period, right? Don't want to bring up the victims whilst their bodies are still fresh and bloody. Wait until they are buried and forgotten. Then we can have a fruitless screaming match that will accomplish nothing.

They're still a gigantic pack of pussies.
 
2012-12-16 03:09:39 PM

This About That: Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.


For all intensive purposes those mean the same thing. Your being pendantic.
 
2012-12-16 03:11:10 PM
I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.
 
2012-12-16 03:27:23 PM

One Bad Apple: Your being pendantic.


It's "you're".
 
2012-12-16 03:36:42 PM

One Bad Apple: This About That: Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.

For all intensive purposes those mean the same thing. Your being pendantic.


I think I see what you did there.
 
2012-12-16 03:40:38 PM

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


The "obvious trap" being "defending their positions in a public forum"?

Dear god, the horroorrrrrr
 
2012-12-16 03:45:21 PM
Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.
 
2012-12-16 03:54:27 PM

BravadoGT: None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?


U.S. Senators get paid to research, defend and legislate controversial policy positions. They are salaried and they are often called upon to be on the Sunday political talk shows. They better goddamn show up of asked on any given Sunday, pussyass weaklings. Its the people who don't show up to defend themselves who will take every opportunity to grandstand by talking bravado and wrapping themselves in the flag. I know any number of authentic actual true believing citizens on that ideological side who would happily show up to take on Feinstein and Bloomberg any day. They are the ones that ought to be the most angry at this obvious cowardice.
 
2012-12-16 03:54:45 PM

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


The GOP and NRA have never been afraid to engage in a gun control debate because until now, they've always held the high ground. The fact that they are sitting this round out is very telling.
 
2012-12-16 03:56:49 PM

One Bad Apple: Your being pendantic.


i52.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-16 04:00:00 PM

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


No.
 
2012-12-16 04:01:33 PM

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.
 
2012-12-16 04:02:31 PM
They're still waiting on the talking points from the NRA.

Apparently, this requires something more than the usual retarded derp from those assholes.
 
2012-12-16 04:06:40 PM
Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.
 
2012-12-16 04:06:56 PM

Lionel Mandrake: They're still waiting on the talking points from the NRA.

Apparently, this requires something more than the usual retarded derp from those assholes.


They're still trying to feel things out. Huckabee's "If we had God in school this wouldn't have happened" didn't work, and no sane parent wants armed teachers watching over their kindergartners.
 
2012-12-16 04:08:11 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


Yeah, it really sucks when people who don't own guns tell people who do own guns not to shoot a bunch of kindergartners.
 
2012-12-16 04:10:53 PM
"We reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the new Congress to invite them on the program to share their views on the subject this morning," he said. "We had no takers."

can you blame them? if they step up and push a pro-gun agenda right now they'd get slaughtered. these guys aren't stupid...they know when/where and how to pick their venues. in terms of practical strategy, standing up in front of a crowd and pushing a pro gun agenda is only going to hurt their cause and they know it.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're going to be real quiet for a while. they might offer some meaningless concessions, pretend apologies and/or do some sort of emotional gesture or whatnot. they could even go as far as to eventually offer some kind of toothless legislation meant to 'address the concerns' of various voter groups. But that's about as far as it'll go.
 
2012-12-16 04:12:02 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


lol
 
2012-12-16 04:13:26 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


so you now want to contend that the GOP is driven by cold, remorseless/soulless logic and that a complete lack of empathy is a GOP virtue?
 
2012-12-16 04:14:52 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


The nerve of some people! Expressing opinions while unarmed!
 
2012-12-16 04:20:07 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?
 
2012-12-16 04:35:05 PM
I don't see why they wouldn't go on.

I've seen nothing but well-tempered and reasonable debate on the subject this week.
 
2012-12-16 04:44:01 PM

NewportBarGuy: They're still a gigantic pack of pussies.


Nearly all neocons are pussies when the rubber meets the road. Remember the immutable rule of life - the louder the guy is, the bigger the sissy he is when it's time back up his BS.

I'm not really speaking about this specific incident (there could have been logistical reasons why no one showed up, for all I know). But in general, a Republican will do his finest John Wayne impersonation and in the next breath cry that he's persecuted by some poorly-defined dark forces aligned against him. As you know, a Republican is typically incapable of actually owning his mistakes like the rest of us do.

But yeah, I would like to see dicks like Gohmert demonstrate how an armed and terrified elementary school teacher would have prevented or at least mitigated the tragedy. Go ahead, big man, demonstrate how badass everyone in the world could be if they were only more in line with your cheap rhetoric. When you're done, don't forget to call a mean ole' lib for picking on you. Pussy.

/why yes, yes I am angry today
 
2012-12-16 04:46:15 PM

vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.


Actually, it costs $200 once, not annually. That being said, you can only own the ones that are legal for civilians to own under any circumstances, which rules out any full-auto gun manufactured after May 19, 1986.
 
2012-12-16 04:48:58 PM

dickfreckle: As you know, a Republican is typically incapable of actually owning his mistakes like the rest of us do.


The Party Of Personally, Responsibly Blaming Minorities and/or A Secret Cabal For All Of Their Failings.

Truly, they are an impressively pathetic bunch of weenies.
 
2012-12-16 05:02:00 PM

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap?


I would love to hear some serious proposals from them on how to deal with this stuff. Or the deficit. Or the national debt. Or the debt ceiling. At least the NFL, NBA,and PGA are still non-profit organizations exempt from taxes. Yay Senate. 

If we don't fix this problem, eventually they WILL take our guns away.
 
2012-12-16 05:17:00 PM
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants defenseless children.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 05:20:11 PM
I'm an idealist, I guess. I think the country should be safe enough that a kindergarten teacher and a principal can be educational experts and leave the weapons expertise to someone else.

I must be completely and totally naive.
 
2012-12-16 05:24:13 PM

vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.



That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 05:24:26 PM

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


I these corporate sycophants they owed the country and the world some sort of explanation of how the events on Friday don't invalidate their total devotion to the gun lobby dollar.

It's the Republicans that are continuously pushing "personal responsibility" remember. Maybe they should finally take their own medicine and take some personal responsibility for the corruption that is preventing our laws (and not just gun laws) from being sane and in the common interest of the PEOPLE of the US, not just the gun corporations.
 
2012-12-16 05:24:50 PM

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


2nd Amendment: Sacred.

1st Amendment: Profane.
 
2012-12-16 05:25:16 PM
Cut them some slack, everyone knows it is way too soon to be discussing this sort of thing.
 
2012-12-16 05:26:17 PM

d23: I'm an idealist, I guess. I think the country should be safe enough that a kindergarten teacher and a principal can be educational experts and leave the weapons expertise to someone else.

I must be completely and totally naive.


Nope, everyone in this country must be expert marksmen and carry a firearm wherever you go. If you aren't then you are not a true American.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 05:27:44 PM

Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.


What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.
 
2012-12-16 05:28:28 PM

Pincy: Cut them some slack, everyone knows it is way too soon to be discussing this sort of thing.


Yup.
 
2012-12-16 05:29:46 PM
Trying to pit logic and rational thought against emotion never works....it would have been a trap with a bunch of guilt thrown in by the gun control crownd using the bodies of children like Bush and Giuliani used the bodys of the september 11th victims.
 
2012-12-16 05:30:19 PM
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


I wish to god Louie Gohmert's mother had swallowed nine months before his birth.
 
2012-12-16 05:32:28 PM

Pincy: Cut them some slack, everyone knows it is way too soon to be discussing this sort of thing.


Just like the media that gets in victims faces in their time of grief ?
 
2012-12-16 05:32:47 PM

Weaver95: "We reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the new Congress to invite them on the program to share their views on the subject this morning," he said. "We had no takers."

can you blame them? if they step up and push a pro-gun agenda right now they'd get slaughtered. these guys aren't stupid...they know when/where and how to pick their venues. in terms of practical strategy, standing up in front of a crowd and pushing a pro gun agenda is only going to hurt their cause and they know it.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're going to be real quiet for a while. they might offer some meaningless concessions, pretend apologies and/or do some sort of emotional gesture or whatnot. they could even go as far as to eventually offer some kind of toothless legislation meant to 'address the concerns' of various voter groups. But that's about as far as it'll go.


no weaver, they will be on FOX monday i will say. they will get softball questions and fake how tore up they are over someone with a mental illness. the guns wont be mentioned
 
2012-12-16 05:32:54 PM
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


Why doesn't he wish to god that the murdering psychopath didn't have a gun?
 
2012-12-16 05:33:00 PM

thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?


I'm what you would call a liberal. I realize banning certain guns would only keep law abiding citizens from having those guns. I also know we could spend obscene amounts of money on mental health and things like this would still happen. What bothers me the most is neither side of this argument will approach or debate it in honest or realistic manner
 
2012-12-16 05:33:38 PM

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


The stupid thing about that quote is one of three things has to happen.

1) The gun is on the adult's body at all times liable to be taken via sucker punch esp. if it's know they have gun
2) The gun is locked up enough to not matter for a sudden break in to a small room, though admittedly someone in a nearby room could prepare
3) The gun is accessible enough for someone to steal and shoot
 
2012-12-16 05:34:35 PM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.

so you now want to contend that the GOP is driven by cold, remorseless/soulless logic and that a complete lack of empathy is a GOP virtue?


soulless logic? Since when do the dems believe in a soul? what is that for them?

You can make decisions based on logic without resorting to the whining of "fairness" which the dems oddly confuse with having empathy.
 
2012-12-16 05:34:58 PM
Some numbers for you:

In 1992 Gun laws were stricter throughout the nation than they are now, many states had no CCW at all. In fact only 9 did. That year there were about 25,000 firearms related murders. In the last 20 years more than 40 states now have CCW, gun ownership is up from approximately 50 million to 80 million and the number of gun related murders is now down below 9,000.

For all of those of you who say 'more guns is safer is just derp' those are the factual numbers. Historically crime increases in bad economies, however the trend for firearms related deaths is simple: The more people that have guns, the less likely there is to be a gun related murder.

While I do oppose teachers carrying guns, which has been promoted by a few RWNJs, here is another startling fact for you: In Israel they had similar issues, teachers were issued guns, school shootings went away.

In Switzerland 1/2 the population owns guns, they have the lowest gun crime rate in the world.

In nations that ban guns, the trend is simple: More crime, more violence, more murder, more assault, and more rape.

Sources(not linked because I am too lazy on this my 3rd day of discussions) : FBI UCR; CDC; and Various UK, Australian; NZ, and other European law enforcement sites, WHO, and UN sites all confirm what I have just said, don't believe me go look it up yourself. ( I know one of you is going to point out the decline in murders in every nation in the world as proof I am wrong, here in the US murder is on the decline too clearly shown in the FBI UCR and CDC websites.
 
2012-12-16 05:35:19 PM
It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...
 
2012-12-16 05:35:37 PM
On the off chance that somebody might actually believe that headline.......you're being lied to.
 
2012-12-16 05:36:18 PM

tentonsofderp: dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


www.nuthousepunks.com
 
2012-12-16 05:36:38 PM

AverageJoe77: thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?

I'm what you would call a liberal. I realize banning certain guns would only keep law abiding citizens from having those guns. I also know we could spend obscene amounts of money on mental health and things like this would still happen. What bothers me the most is neither side of this argument will approach or debate it in honest or realistic manner


unless a gun control advocate is suggesting an outright ban on semi-automatic handgun ownership, there's really nothing to talk about.
These were legally owned an registered guns that the psycho son of the owner got his hands on. What can we do? Put her corpse in prison?
 
2012-12-16 05:36:39 PM
So umm... glad that Adam Lanza's gun enthusiast mother with the dozen or so guns stopped that killing spree that day!
 
2012-12-16 05:36:44 PM

blueknight: no weaver, they will be on FOX monday i will say. they will get softball questions and fake how tore up they are over someone with a mental illness. the guns wont be mentioned


And then they will follow that up with a tirade against Obamacare and how we shouldn't have to be forced to pay for other people's problems.
 
2012-12-16 05:37:02 PM

Rann Xerox: Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.
"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.
I wish to god Louie Gohmert's mother had swallowed nine months before his birth.


Did he also mention that the teacher who had guns to protect herself was killed by them, and so were a bunch of other people?
 
2012-12-16 05:37:29 PM

WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...


That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!
 
2012-12-16 05:39:18 PM

AverageJoe77: thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?

I'm what you would call a liberal. I realize banning certain guns would only keep law abiding citizens from having those guns. I also know we could spend obscene amounts of money on mental health and things like this would still happen. What bothers me the most is neither side of this argument will approach or debate it in honest or realistic manner


well, first, if you are expecting honest or realistic debate on fark, you are kidding yourself.

Every complex problem has a simple solution...that is wrong. But that is what everyone likes to do...create that simple solution.
 
2012-12-16 05:40:07 PM
Idiots whining about gun control again.
 
2012-12-16 05:40:56 PM

tenpoundsofcheese:
You can make decisions based on logic without resorting to the whining of "fairness" which the dems oddly confuse with having empathy.


right - so you believe that emotions are a weakness and that cold, remorseless logic should be how to run a proper government. empathy? bah! purge that nonsense from your lexicon!
 
2012-12-16 05:41:00 PM
I'm all for this debate; I want to see how Obama plans to make stealing guns from law abiding people, taking them to a place where guns aren't allowed, and using them to commit murder illegal. Oh wait... FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.
 
2012-12-16 05:41:46 PM

AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!


How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?
 
2012-12-16 05:41:52 PM
You know what? I'm glad they didn't take up any offers to discuss such an important issue, because they never bring anything productive to the table anyway.

The fewer people we have on national television bleating out NRA talking points, the better. If we on the pro-gun control side can shame them into keeping their mouths shut, then maybe eventually we can get some actual legislation going.
 
2012-12-16 05:43:06 PM

AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!


Screw that shiat! I would rather we spend money on government officials to collect all the guns we don't like. Sure, rounding up all the guns we don't like will cost a lot of money, but if we spent that money on mental health we have other positive effects on society.
 
2012-12-16 05:45:40 PM

cchris_39: On the off chance that somebody might actually believe that headline.......you're being lied to.


Thank you, Senator.

/cuz that's the ONLY way you could make that statement.
 
2012-12-16 05:46:52 PM

tenpoundsofcheese:

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


-2/10 Are you even trying?
 
2012-12-16 05:47:14 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks


Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.
 
2012-12-16 05:47:35 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better


Well, that's the important thing.
 
2012-12-16 05:47:59 PM

skullkrusher: Forced mental health checks?


Maybe, if someone seems "...not to feel physical or emotional pain..." and occasionally has an episode where they "...completely [withdraw] from whatever [is] happening around him."

Link
 
2012-12-16 05:48:20 PM

Azlefty: Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves


What additional taxpayer protection does a Senator receive when they're not at their job?
 
2012-12-16 05:50:19 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: I'm all for this debate; I want to see how Obama plans to make stealing guns from law abiding people, taking them to a place where guns aren't allowed, and using them to commit murder illegal. Oh wait... FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.


You know what it usually means when teachers have to keep guns in their desks?

It means they're in Somalia and they should probably get the fark out of there.
 
2012-12-16 05:50:32 PM

fatassbastard: skullkrusher: Forced mental health checks?

Maybe, if someone seems "...not to feel physical or emotional pain..." and occasionally has an episode where they "...completely [withdraw] from whatever [is] happening around him."

Link


we'd have an army of Mental Health Officers monitoring Fark and committing every person on the politics tab to an institution for evaluations. Cept me cuz I got my shiat together. Rest of you motherfarkers are nuts.
 
2012-12-16 05:50:36 PM

WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...


Socialism!
 
2012-12-16 05:51:41 PM

skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?


You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.
 
2012-12-16 05:52:40 PM
Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words
 
2012-12-16 05:53:25 PM

cchris_39: skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?

You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.


So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?
 
2012-12-16 05:54:26 PM

cchris_39: skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?

You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.


Ah, the old "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas." game. Here's tip from a pro-gun lib: If the gun lobby starts talking about mental health, then you change the subject from gun control and it's a win-win. You get to keep all your guns, and you can blame the government for not helping these people more.
 
2012-12-16 05:55:37 PM
I love it when assholes suggest that more guns are the answer.

Guns! Guns everywhere!

You know what more guns brings? More gun related accidental shootings. Try as you may to teach safety and responsibility, accidents happen. And eventually, the number of accidents will meet or overtake the number of violent gun deaths that you were hoping to stop.

farking brilliant strategy there. I guess at least we're killing ourselves rather than letting someone else do it.
 
2012-12-16 05:55:46 PM

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


In case you didn't notice, not having a rifle didn't work out so well. But who's to say having a rifle would have made a difference?

I can say one thing: you can't win a raffle without having a ticket
 
2012-12-16 05:55:54 PM

12349876: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

The stupid thing about that quote is one of three things has to happen.

1) The gun is on the adult's body at all times liable to be taken via sucker punch esp. if it's know they have gun
2) The gun is locked up enough to not matter for a sudden break in to a small room, though admittedly someone in a nearby room could prepare
3) The gun is accessible enough for someone to steal and shoot


The principal wasn't in her office; she was meeting with a parent in another room near the classrooms with the vice-principal and a psychologist. Had there been a military rifle in the office, she would have had to leave the meeting room, assess the situation, run to the office (past the gunman, btw), get the key, unlock the storage area, unlock where the ammo is kept, load the weapon, and then confront the gunman. I kind of doubt he would have patiently waited for her to accomplish all that before shooting anyone.

The principal and psychologist died trying to stop the gunman. The vice-principal was injured and got to the office, where he activated the PA system. In this real life situation, who gets out the gun? The secretary? Or is the principal supposed to carry the rifle and ammo with her at all times? Gohmert is an idiot and a fool, basically just another one of those "more guns will make us safe" NRA shills who are too brain-dead to do their own thinking. The Wild West was a society as he described; everyone was armed, and no, it was NOT safer for everyone like that. In fact, the first thing that happened when law enforcement officers moved into an area like that was to ban weapons from towns, bars and saloons, anywhere where the chance for violent outbursts were common.

I don't blame the GOP for not going on TV today to debate gun control laws. I give them intelligence enough to realize they couldn't defend the indefensible. I also don't expect them to change one iota off their pro-gun, anti-responsibility message they've been pushing about guns for decades now either.
 
2012-12-16 05:56:01 PM
"Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"
 
2012-12-16 05:56:26 PM

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools. "I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


The Pricipal. Starring Samuel L Jackson as Dawn Hochsprung: "Enough is enough! I've had it with these motherfarking schizophrenics in my motherfarking elementary school!"

Is he dead or not?
 
2012-12-16 05:58:28 PM

Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.


Exactly, now is not the time for the GOP to debate this. Democrats are trying to lure them into an obvious trap. I can't say I blame either side, but it is kind of shameless.
 
2012-12-16 05:58:51 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


Didn't you just run away crying from the other gun thread?
 
2012-12-16 05:59:57 PM

KidneyStone: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

In case you didn't notice, not having a rifle didn't work out so well. But who's to say having a rifle would have made a difference?

I can say one thing: you can't win a raffle without having a ticket


But 99.9% of the people who bought a ticket don't win.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:06 PM

Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"


Correct stance? This post brought to you by your friends at the NRA. Keeping America afraid and armed so that corporations can make immense profit off the death of thousands.

//yeah, yeah, I know, just arm everybody. Keep posting that every single thread, bro. Someone, at least one person is likely to buy into it.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:38 PM
Conservatives think that if you favor gun control, you hate America, but I disagree. It seems obvious to me that if you hated America, you'd be in favor of more guns so that there can be more mass shootings.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:42 PM
That's so weird. I just looked in my thesaurus under the entry "craven." It listed "pro-gun rights Senator" as a synonym.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:48 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better

Well, that's the important thing.


Since you seem to have a problem with making inferences, I'll clarify by saying that my sister would be more safe in a school with secured firearms able to be accessed by trained and responsible adults in the event of an emergency than she would be relying on wishes, dreams, paperwork and happy thoughts from people like you were an attack to happen at her school.

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks

Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.


Right. Because I'm sure that there's no way the government could get a desk with provisions for securing a firearm that could only be accessed by the teacher. We should stick to simpler undertakings like manned spaceflight and cloning large organisms.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:57 PM

Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?


Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea. My sister is an elementary principal. I (and it turns out many others) told her get a gun and keep in her drawer. Like most educators, she is the type that would throw her whole 5-2 buck twenty at the shooter to save her kids.

Sucks I know but having some people at the school armed and ready is the best I have.
 
2012-12-16 06:01:15 PM

WTF Indeed: cchris_39: skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?

You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.

Ah, the old "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas." game. Here's tip from a pro-gun lib: If the gun lobby starts talking about mental health, then you change the subject from gun control and it's a win-win. You get to keep all your guns, and you can blame the government for not helping these people more.


you haven't suggested any concrete ideas. White kid, affluent family - how are we to ensure he gets diagnosed and treated? Maybe a neighbor can report him for suspicion of insanity?
 
2012-12-16 06:01:18 PM

Primum: Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios


I once worked with a guy who had a concealed carry license and went packin' everywhere he went. One time I asked him why he carried, and he said it was because he cared about people and didn't want to see them hurt in the event of a shooting or a robbery or whatever. That conversation ended with me rolling my eyes, saying, "If you care so much about people, then feed the poor," and walking off.

But it got me to thinking, I bet a lot of people carry for just that reason, because they "care" so much. I wonder how many of them carry insulin around, or a first aid kit, or a defibrillator, or a fire extinguisher, or even extra cash for emergencies. You know, just in the off-chance that someone's life depends on it.
 
2012-12-16 06:02:21 PM

James F. Campbell: Conservatives think that if you favor gun control, you hate America, but I disagree. It seems obvious to me that if you hated America, you'd be in favor of more guns so that there can be more mass shootings.


No, no, no... the talking point is that it will reduce gun violence if we arm everyone. Because somewhere in Georgia, it actually did. It must have been so tough convincing everyone in that town to get a gun. It would be like asking them if they want to f*ck their cousin in the back of their Chevy.
 
2012-12-16 06:03:49 PM

James F. Campbell: Conservatives think that if you favor gun control, you hate America, but I disagree. It seems obvious to me that if you hated America, you'd be in favor of more guns so that there can be more mass shootings.


Why do you hate America?
 
2012-12-16 06:03:55 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better

Well, that's the important thing.

Since you seem to have a problem with making inferences, I'll clarify by saying that my sister would be more safe in a school with secured firearms able to be accessed by trained and responsible adults in the event of an emergency than she would be relying on wishes, dreams, paperwork and happy thoughts from people like you were an attack to happen at her school.

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks

Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.

Right. Because I'm sure that there's no way the government could get a desk with provisions for securing a firearm that could only be accessed by the teacher. We should stick to simpler undertakings like manned spaceflight and cloning large organisms.


Pay attention folks: gun rights advocates want to live in a world where kindergarten teachers are forced to pack heat to keep their kids safe. We can live in that world. Or, we can begin discussing repeal or amendment of the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-16 06:04:36 PM
Sounds like 31 people who realized it would basically be a kangaroo court interview situation if they had taken the offer. I guarantee, whether I agree or not, that they would have been held accountable for a mentally challenged young man and have had no way to counter that.
 
2012-12-16 06:05:00 PM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese:
You can make decisions based on logic without resorting to the whining of "fairness" which the dems oddly confuse with having empathy.

right - so you believe that emotions are a weakness and that cold, remorseless logic should be how to run a proper government. empathy? bah! purge that nonsense from your lexicon!


Not all emotions. Blind, judgmental anger comes in handy for the GOP.
 
2012-12-16 06:05:30 PM

cchris_39: Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?

Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea.


And finally, an honest answer.
 
2012-12-16 06:05:47 PM

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


So, what you're saying is that they're pussies?

Or do they fear that they will be unable to defend their position?

Both?
 
2012-12-16 06:05:52 PM

Nezu Chiza: Sounds like 31 people who realized it would basically be a kangaroo court interview situation if they had taken the offer. I guarantee, whether I agree or not, that they would have been held accountable for a mentally challenged young man and have had no way to counter that.


Most mentally challenged are bootstrappy enough to make a mark on this world without resorting to violence. They're called Republicans.
 
2012-12-16 06:07:18 PM

Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"


So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:08 PM

Nezu Chiza: Sounds like 31 people who realized it would basically be a kangaroo court interview situation if they had taken the offer. I guarantee, whether I agree or not, that they would have been held accountable for a mentally challenged young man and have had no way to counter that.


David Gregory is a Republican.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:13 PM

Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?

Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea.

And finally, an honest answer.


OK, sorry, I was trying to be a little funny and that was a bit unfair to you. I apologize.

You did give one suggestion about having people armed at schools. It's not the way I would like to go, but we can disagree without me taking a cheap shot.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:27 PM
The guns are perfectly safe, meticulously engineered and manufactured to impeccable standards of quality and reliability unmatched in the field of consumer products.

It's the humans that are unsafe. So we need to find a means of producing better humans and weeding out the ones with safety issues and correcting them before they explode and take out bystanders.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:28 PM

Pincy: blueknight: no weaver, they will be on FOX monday i will say. they will get softball questions and fake how tore up they are over someone with a mental illness. the guns wont be mentioned

And then they will follow that up with a tirade against Obamacare and how we shouldn't have to be forced to pay for other people's problems.


Yup. They will not appear on a program where their positions might be challenged in any way not pre-arranged with the hosts. They will parade onto Fox News, where their talking points can be regurgitated verbatim, unencumbered by opposing views or even rational questions.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:31 PM

Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words


I had one job where I strongly considered renewing my long-expired carry permit. I decided it was a better idea to change jobs. Carrying a gun is a pain in the ass, the best possible outcome is I accidentally leave it on a piece of equipment after removing it to mount something heavy, worst outcome is I actually use the thing. Even the people who supported Bernie Goetz (sp?) didn't want to actually live next door to the nut. I don't want to be that guy.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:20 PM
I demand the right to carry a bazooka onto a plane.

Farking watered down rights.

Arms include bazookas. Does constitution say firearms? No. IT SAYS ARMS. Does constitution mention planes? No. IT SAYS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Sick of weasally constitution-violating NRA.

Bazookas on planes. MY RIGHT. MY RIGHT. MY RIGHT.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:24 PM
I'm pretty pro gun but the answer to the Sandy Hook is not allowing guns in middle/elementary schools. There is absolutely 100% no reason to have a gun in an area concentrated with children.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:25 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"

So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.


Sure they can. Now just isn't the time to do it.
 
2012-12-16 06:10:22 PM
It's not fair to discuss X so soon after X was so effectively used to massacre children. It makes it really hard for guys who use X to substitute for a reasonably-sized penis.
 
2012-12-16 06:10:46 PM

Pincy: You did give one suggestion about having people armed at schools.


Just to be clear, the suggestions from gun rights advocates have been kindergarten teachers packing heat. Kindergarten teachers. Packing heat.

Repeal or amendment. That's where the conversation must go from here.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:25 PM

Phony_Soldier: Lionel Mandrake: Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"

So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.

Sure they can. Now just isn't the time to do it.


Yeah...never is.

Their arguments must be really good, but I guess we'll never know.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:27 PM

siphra: Some numbers for you:

In 1992 Gun laws were stricter throughout the nation than they are now, many states had no CCW at all. In fact only 9 did. That year there were about 25,000 firearms related murders. In the last 20 years more than 40 states now have CCW, gun ownership is up from approximately 50 million to 80 million and the number of gun related murders is now down below 9,000.

For all of those of you who say 'more guns is safer is just derp' those are the factual numbers. Historically crime increases in bad economies, however the trend for firearms related deaths is simple: The more people that have guns, the less likely there is to be a gun related murder.

While I do oppose teachers carrying guns, which has been promoted by a few RWNJs, here is another startling fact for you: In Israel they had similar issues, teachers were issued guns, school shootings went away.

In Switzerland 1/2 the population owns guns, they have the lowest gun crime rate in the world.

In nations that ban guns, the trend is simple: More crime, more violence, more murder, more assault, and more rape.

Sources(not linked because I am too lazy on this my 3rd day of discussions) : FBI UCR; CDC; and Various UK, Australian; NZ, and other European law enforcement sites, WHO, and UN sites all confirm what I have just said, don't believe me go look it up yourself. ( I know one of you is going to point out the decline in murders in every nation in the world as proof I am wrong, here in the US murder is on the decline too clearly shown in the FBI UCR and CDC websites.


If you have read Freakonomics, you'd know that just as easily attribute the drop in crime to legal abortions, better sex ed, and easier access/better social acceptance of birth control for teens. There are so many demographic/economic factors in play with those stats you quote that it is damn near impossible to nail the drop in crime down to a single cause. Saying it is entirely due to concealed carry is disingenuous at best.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:47 PM

The Name: Primum: Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

I once worked with a guy who had a concealed carry license and went packin' everywhere he went. One time I asked him why he carried, and he said it was because he cared about people and didn't want to see them hurt in the event of a shooting or a robbery or whatever. That conversation ended with me rolling my eyes, saying, "If you care so much about people, then feed the poor," and walking off.

But it got me to thinking, I bet a lot of people carry for just that reason, because they "care" so much. I wonder how many of them carry insulin around, or a first aid kit, or a defibrillator, or a fire extinguisher, or even extra cash for emergencies. You know, just in the off-chance that someone's life depends on it.


Are you suggesting its ok to walk into a building and remove all the fire extinguishers and defribrilators from the walls because they'll probably not be needed on any given day?

/and who the hell doesn't keep emergency cash on hand?
/I do keep a larger than normal first aid kit in the truck, but no insulin.
/can't plan for everything.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:50 PM
What happened to politicians being representatives of their constituents? Why WOULD someone go on national TV who's a representative of a district or state that is massively pro 2nd amendment/anti-anything ban just to hear an opposing view and opinion? What good would it do?

/AR-15 owner
//Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can
 
2012-12-16 06:12:34 PM

Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?

Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea.

And finally, an honest answer.


Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.
 
2012-12-16 06:13:18 PM

justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can


So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?
 
2012-12-16 06:13:29 PM

dickfreckle: But yeah, I would like to see dicks like Gohmert demonstrate how an armed and terrified elementary school teacher would have prevented or at least mitigated the tragedy. Go ahead, big man, demonstrate how badass everyone in the world could be if they were only more in line with your cheap rhetoric. When you're done, don't forget to call a mean ole' lib for picking on you. Pussy.


So you are arguing that keeping schools as "gun free zones", which is working oh, so well, is better than allowing teachers to be trained and carry at schools?

A teacher might be able to bring herself to fire at at some asshole who is killing innocent children. That's infinitely better than no farking chance of doing anything but sacrificing herself.
 
2012-12-16 06:14:08 PM
Let's put this in economic terms - why does the left want to kill jobs by discussing gun control?

1) Less firearms sales
2) Less post-trauma therapy
3) Less first responder jobs
4) Less "Sorry for your loss" greeting cards sales.
5) Less jobs for funeral homes.
6) Less jobs for medical examiners.
7) Less need for blood bank employees.

It's obvious that there is a Hallmark / Healthcare / Funeral Home / Arms Manufacturer cabal that is up against the libs.

Good luck with that syndicate.
 
2012-12-16 06:14:23 PM

way south: Are you suggesting its ok to walk into a building and remove all the fire extinguishers and defribrilators from the walls because they'll probably not be needed on any given day?


Nothing he said suggested that in any way.
 
2012-12-16 06:14:33 PM

skullkrusher: you haven't suggested any concrete ideas. White kid, affluent family - how are we to ensure he gets diagnosed and treated? Maybe a neighbor can report him for suspicion of insanity?


We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help. We need parents to be more willing to ask for help for their children, and children to be more willing to ask for help for themselves. Most people going through problems like depression and anxiety disorders know that something is wrong. They just can't bring themselves to ask for help because of all the negative things that we as a society associate with mental health treatment.

How do we do that? I don't know. How about a farking study on the issue or something.
 
2012-12-16 06:15:36 PM
thinkprogress.org
 
2012-12-16 06:17:08 PM

GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.


The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.
 
2012-12-16 06:17:29 PM

GhostFish: skullkrusher: you haven't suggested any concrete ideas. White kid, affluent family - how are we to ensure he gets diagnosed and treated? Maybe a neighbor can report him for suspicion of insanity?

We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help. We need parents to be more willing to ask for help for their children, and children to be more willing to ask for help for themselves. Most people going through problems like depression and anxiety disorders know that something is wrong. They just can't bring themselves to ask for help because of all the negative things that we as a society associate with mental health treatment.

How do we do that? I don't know. How about a farking study on the issue or something.


reduce negative side effects for copping to mental problems? Like limited access to guns?
That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case
 
2012-12-16 06:19:53 PM
Pincy:

Thanks! We're good no worries :)
 
2012-12-16 06:20:37 PM

cchris_39: You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.


Obviously, more tax cuts for billionaires will keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of the mentally unstable.
 
2012-12-16 06:20:40 PM

skullkrusher: That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case


I'm not really in favor of knee-jerk reactionary legislation, are you?
Like I said, I'd like to see some studies on the matter. I don't want new laws put in place just to make people feel good.
 
2012-12-16 06:20:47 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"

So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.


To be perfectly honest, a lot of people, here and elsewhere in life/the Internet, are losing their collective shiat over the issue right now. Here, people I swear up and down I'd be aligned with on ANY other issue have gone so far as to accuse me and people thinking like me of "having blood on our hands" and being "killers". Me, personally, I don't even own a gun. I'd like to, mainly for target shooting. But somehow, because I'd rather have a semi-automatic 9mm instead of a cumbersome muzzleloader, I'm now no better than Adam Lanza himself. That's bullshiat, frankly.

Then there are the issue of the proposals. There were a few people yesterday whose posts made my eyes twitch. One guy proposed taxing the entertainment industry if ANY production depicted gunplay in any way. If that's not missing the point, I don't know what is.
 
2012-12-16 06:21:02 PM

cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.


I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.
 
2012-12-16 06:21:38 PM

mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.


Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.
 
2012-12-16 06:22:12 PM
I have a rational idea. Let's figure out why people murder other people and try to diminish the need for them to do that.

1) Mental health.
2) Loss of community.
3) Right-wing fear machine.
4) Glorification of the military (leading to enlistment, PTSD, ergo, see #1).
5) Drug trade

Since the discussion on gun control is about as movable as the one on abortion, why not actually consider, I dunno.... causes?
 
2012-12-16 06:22:17 PM

Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words


LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.
 
2012-12-16 06:23:40 PM

Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.


Yeah. Someone is either deemed a threat to themselves and/or others, or they're not.
If someone is deemed a threat, you don't release them into the general population.
 
2012-12-16 06:24:37 PM

justinsmith354: Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words

LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.


A) Lots of fools out there.
B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".
 
2012-12-16 06:25:02 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.

I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.


What you don't understand is that people are telling you they would rather try other solutions than having teachers pack heat in elementary schools. That would be a last resort, and a sad commentary on our society at that.
 
2012-12-16 06:25:42 PM

Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.


That seems to be the direction the conversation is going. Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-16 06:25:45 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.

I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.


Something tells me that having armed teacher would make it a nightmare liability wise for public schools, which I think is part of why they're usually gun-free zones. 

I like the School Resource Officer idea myself.
 
2012-12-16 06:25:59 PM

Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?


Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.
 
2012-12-16 06:26:27 PM

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.

I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.

What you don't understand is that people are telling you they would rather try other solutions than having teachers pack heat in elementary schools. That would be a last resort, and a sad commentary on our society at that.


Not to mention that if she is keeping the gun in her desk, it's about as useful as tits on a bull. The assailant is gonna blow her away before she can put down the piece of chalk.
 
2012-12-16 06:26:27 PM
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) joined the show to discuss a greater need for gun control. She announced that Senate Democrats would intrduce a new bill banning assault weapons on the first day of the new Congress in January.

Yes... because the Federal Government attempting to 'ban' things has worked so well in the past.
 
2012-12-16 06:27:35 PM

GhostFish: skullkrusher: That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case

I'm not really in favor of knee-jerk reactionary legislation, are you?
Like I said, I'd like to see some studies on the matter. I don't want new laws put in place just to make people feel good.


of course not - lots of snarky comments about mental health care, not many actual ideas on making sure those who need help get it and take their meds
 
2012-12-16 06:28:39 PM

skullkrusher: GhostFish: skullkrusher: That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case

I'm not really in favor of knee-jerk reactionary legislation, are you?
Like I said, I'd like to see some studies on the matter. I don't want new laws put in place just to make people feel good.

of course not - lots of snarky comments about mental health care, not many actual ideas on making sure those who need help get it and take their meds


I think we're all in favor of the status quo, really. What the f*ck would we have to talk about if sh*t ain't getting real all the time?
 
2012-12-16 06:29:52 PM

justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.


People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?
 
2012-12-16 06:30:09 PM

GhostFish: Yeah. Someone is either deemed a threat to themselves and/or others, or they're not.
If someone is deemed a threat, you don't release them into the general population.


Under the Baker Act, they're not. But being Baker Acted is one of the few ways you can lose your firearms rights short of a felony conviction. It is illegal for persons who've been committed under the Baker Act to possess firearms, and illegal for vendors to knowingly sell them.

Which has its own set of injustices associated with it. Some people are wrongfully committed. Some people have a single episode, and then go on to live normal lives, but are permanently deprived of the 2nd Amendment rights so many hold dear. Meanwhile, a guy can tell his therapist he fantasizes about going on a shooting rampage in an elementary school, and he can still buy firearms provided
he says things like "I don't think I'd ever really do it."
 
2012-12-16 06:31:13 PM

coeyagi: I have a rational idea. Let's figure out why people murder other people and try to diminish the need for them to do that.

1) Mental health.
2) Loss of community.
3) Right-wing fear machine.
4) Glorification of the military (leading to enlistment, PTSD, ergo, see #1).
5) Drug trade

Since the discussion on gun control is about as movable as the one on abortion, why not actually consider, I dunno.... causes?


WOW. So now you're going to blame these mass shootings on the military(who apparently have a life cycle of birth, enlistment, PTSD, mass shooting)? They've been perpetrated by nutty HS and College students who never served, and in fact many of the victims of the non-school ones have been veterans, who once again put themselves in harms way to try to save others. You should be ashamed, but I'm not counting on it.

img11.hostingpics.net
 
2012-12-16 06:31:35 PM
Did Bravado GiT really just come in here and shiat again, the run away, never to be heard from ASSGAIN???


/no...?
 
2012-12-16 06:31:40 PM

Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?


I think he's saying he hunts because he can.

/If hunting is your interest so be it.
//Can't we all just get along?
 
2012-12-16 06:31:59 PM

mittromneysdog: Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.

That seems to be the direction the conversation is going.


No. No one with any brains wants that. The idea is to destigmatize the field of mental health so people can be given help before it gets out of hand. Like finding a benign polyp before it becomes inoperable full-body cancer.

Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.

Would you like to buy a bridge? Some quality real estate in sunny Florida, maybe?
 
2012-12-16 06:32:04 PM

Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?


It's the pride in knowing that you have a swinging pair of balls between your legs, that you killed it yourself. Hey, whatever people have to do to remind themselves that they have a pair of testicles short of looking down their pants, well, so be it.
 
2012-12-16 06:32:07 PM
I'm pretty pro gun but the answer to the Sandy Hook is not allowing guns in middle/elementary schools. There is absolutely 100% no reason to have a gun in an area concentrated with children.

If you mean passing laws that prohibit guns in schools, all you accomplish is setting up a nice juicy soft target for mass shooters to show up at and blast away, like what just happened.

If you mean taking active steps to keep guns out, like surrounding the school with fences, and passing everybody through metal detectors at the entrance to detect the guns, and provide a MEANS to stop someone with a gun from getting in, then yes, that would work great.

/paging TSA to the schoolyard, paging TSA....
 
2012-12-16 06:32:10 PM
Hey teabaggers, try that on for size, motherfarkers!
 
2012-12-16 06:32:13 PM
*then
 
2012-12-16 06:32:19 PM

Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?


Because you can score free meat?

/and because invasive species destroy farm land.
 
2012-12-16 06:33:09 PM

mittromneysdog: Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.

That seems to be the direction the conversation is going. Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.


Or we could do something about health care and mental health care, and maybe also deal with the fact that the people who are supposed to be the chief custodians of our gun culture are instead some of the Republican Party's biggest shills. I bet further reforms to health care and a complete overhaul/replacement of the NRA would yield better results in the long-term. Hell, maybe even short-term, too.
 
2012-12-16 06:33:10 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: coeyagi: I have a rational idea. Let's figure out why people murder other people and try to diminish the need for them to do that.

1) Mental health.
2) Loss of community.
3) Right-wing fear machine.
4) Glorification of the military (leading to enlistment, PTSD, ergo, see #1).
5) Drug trade

Since the discussion on gun control is about as movable as the one on abortion, why not actually consider, I dunno.... causes?

WOW. So now you're going to blame these mass shootings on the military(who apparently have a life cycle of birth, enlistment, PTSD, mass shooting)? They've been perpetrated by nutty HS and College students who never served, and in fact many of the victims of the non-school ones have been veterans, who once again put themselves in harms way to try to save others. You should be ashamed, but I'm not counting on it.

[img11.hostingpics.net image 472x352]


You're right, no PTSD person has ever murdered anyone. Ever.
 
2012-12-16 06:33:56 PM

coeyagi: justinsmith354: Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words

LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

A) Lots of fools out there.
B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".


Your argument is dumb. Deal with it.

I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

If I wanted to be "prepared" to save someone in anaphylactic shock, I would be carrying a farking epi pen. The only thing I'm "prepared" for is directly related to MYSELF and MY well being. Not yours or the general public.

You see...the difference is that I know that EVEN IF I WAS trying to be a "hero", the odds of me actually using my CW or an epi pen in public are probably about the same.
 
2012-12-16 06:34:11 PM

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


So that they can all say "GOD! Get OVER it, that was like TWO WEEKS ago!"
 
2012-12-16 06:34:26 PM
s20.postimage.org
 
2012-12-16 06:34:33 PM

justinsmith354: Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.


You must live in Texas.
And if you seriously think anyone here believes you're going to pass up the chance to smoke a street thug, you're an idiot.
 
2012-12-16 06:36:25 PM

justinsmith354: coeyagi: justinsmith354: Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words

LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

A) Lots of fools out there.
B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".

Your argument is dumb. Deal with it.

I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

If I wanted to be "prepared" to save someone in anaphylactic shock, I would be carrying a farking epi pen. The only thing I'm "prepared" for is directly related to MYSELF and MY well being. Not yours or the general public.

You see...the difference is that I know that EVEN IF I WAS trying to be a "hero", the odds of me actually using my CW or an epi pen in public are probably about the same.


Summation: I only give a f*ck about myself.

Cool bro, just don't use so many words to say the derptastically obvious.
 
2012-12-16 06:37:13 PM

coeyagi: Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?

It's the pride in knowing that you have a swinging pair of balls between your legs, that you killed it yourself. Hey, whatever people have to do to remind themselves that they have a pair of testicles short of looking down their pants, well, so be it.


...OK. Call it snark, I don't care.

Can I get a full list of activities/hobbies that are "compensating for something"-free? Because mine so far only has eating, sleeping and breathing on it.
 
2012-12-16 06:38:54 PM
Bushmaster: All you need is 700 bucks and a dream.
 
2012-12-16 06:39:26 PM

justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?


Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?
 
2012-12-16 06:39:50 PM

Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.


Yeah, kind of my thought. The price of getting pro-gun rights senators to keep their mouths shut is 20 dead children.

I'm not sure it's a fair exchange, honestly; but it's good to know they actually do have a price.
 
2012-12-16 06:40:04 PM

vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.


Gun smithing school is about the same price and you can learn to make your own.
 
2012-12-16 06:40:11 PM

mark12A: I'm pretty pro gun but the answer to the Sandy Hook is not allowing guns in middle/elementary schools. There is absolutely 100% no reason to have a gun in an area concentrated with children.

If you mean passing laws that prohibit guns in schools, all you accomplish is setting up a nice juicy soft target for mass shooters to show up at and blast away, like what just happened.

If you mean taking active steps to keep guns out, like surrounding the school with fences, and passing everybody through metal detectors at the entrance to detect the guns, and provide a MEANS to stop someone with a gun from getting in, then yes, that would work great.

/paging TSA to the schoolyard, paging TSA....


I think if you just put a school resource officer in every school like they do with middle and high schools already, that would help out quite a bit without making a litigious nightmare in having teachers carry concealed weapons in the classroom.

But that's just me.
 
2012-12-16 06:40:54 PM

way south: Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?

Because you can score free meat?

/and because invasive species destroy farm land.


OH...I get it now. I think it was another thread where people were talking about owning an "assault weapon" because in short...they could. I forgot where I was.

Their argument was poorly linked to automobiles....like saying...why does anyone "NEED" a super car that goes 200+ MPH? And they said...because they could. Just like they can buy a Viking Tactical OBR.

And yes...wild hogs are becoming a problem around here.
 
2012-12-16 06:41:32 PM
So the same people who bargained away my rights to free speech and privacy after 9/11 are afraid to be on the receiving (in the Prison biatch sense) end of the Fear Machine?

How nice for them to be able to opt out.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:29 PM

Gyrfalcon: Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.

Yeah, kind of my thought. The price of getting pro-gun rights senators to keep their mouths shut is 20 dead children.

I'm not sure it's a fair exchange, honestly; but it's good to know they actually do have a price.


See pro-gun senators are people too.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:29 PM

Clutch2013: coeyagi: Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?

It's the pride in knowing that you have a swinging pair of balls between your legs, that you killed it yourself. Hey, whatever people have to do to remind themselves that they have a pair of testicles short of looking down their pants, well, so be it.

...OK. Call it snark, I don't care.

Can I get a full list of activities/hobbies that are "compensating for something"-free? Because mine so far only has eating, sleeping and breathing on it.


Reading, watching movies, arts / crafts, seeing a play, acting - totally ball-affirming.

//watches / plays sports - because I like competition, which is kinda healthy for society and the individual.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:58 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Azlefty: jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?

Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves

She wants HER gun 24/7, but she doesn't believe that us peasants deserve the same right.


Well, we all agree the mentally ill shouldn't have guns, so yes, you probably shouldn't have a gun.
 
2012-12-16 06:43:40 PM
Mugger: "Gimme your wallet!"
Responsible gun owner: "Sure thing, here ya go. Don't want any trouble."
Mugger: "And your watch & ring,too."
Responsible gun owner: "No problem, stay calm, a watch isn't worth getting killed over."
Mugger: "What else you got?"
Responsible gun owner: "Just this fully loaded 9mm..."

BLAM!
 
2012-12-16 06:44:45 PM

The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?


Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.
 
2012-12-16 06:46:09 PM

justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?

Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.


Yep. And I plan not to wear a hoodie and carry Skittle and Snapple for fear of having my life deprived by some paranoid asshole.
 
2012-12-16 06:47:00 PM

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.


Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.
 
2012-12-16 06:49:49 PM

propasaurus: Mugger: "Gimme your wallet!"
Responsible gun owner: "Sure thing, here ya go. Don't want any trouble."
Mugger: "And your watch & ring,too."
Responsible gun owner: "No problem, stay calm, a watch isn't worth getting killed over."
Mugger: "What else you got?"
Responsible gun owner: "Just this fully loaded 9mm..."

BLAM!


Sounds very Christian. That's in the Sermon on the Mount, right?
 
2012-12-16 06:50:17 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.


justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.
 
2012-12-16 06:50:45 PM

coeyagi: justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?

Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.

Yep. And I plan not to wear a hoodie and carry Skittle and Snapple for fear of having my life deprived by some paranoid asshole.


HA! Well...sounds like you need to move to Arkansas. People are less backwards here than you might think. And not everyone is a moron like George Zimmerman. Kind of like everyone that references philosophers and Latin in their comments aren't all assholes.
 
2012-12-16 06:51:51 PM
If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.
 
2012-12-16 06:52:21 PM
She announced that Senate Democrats would intrduce a new bill banning assault weapons on the first day of the new Congress in January.

I see that the Democrats are taking advantage of their political capital to waste everyone's time on whit that, it has been empirically demonstrated, will not make it into law instead of actually doing something useful.

Apparently they've watched the GOP crashing and burning like crazy because of their over-reliance on a few hot-button issues that have no chance of actually passing and staying passed, and their thought was "that seems like a good idea, let's do that".

//What I'm saying here is that this one's not a winner. It's the "make abortion illegal" of the left, just farking give up on it already and focus on intermediate measures that people are willing to give ground on, like background check. Advocating bans are just going to make you hemmorhage voters, we've heard this song before.

coeyagi: B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".


AEDs are a bad idea in most first aid situations, and you don't really want to administer insulin to anyone that doesn't carry his/her own. But you should carry basic first aid supplies and have access to a better kit with an epi pen. And any reasonable person that's not an idiot carries 20$ in cash or so in case their card is declined.

And you should know how to administer insulin if you can.

Basically, if you're trying to be sarcastic it's kind of falling flat, because if you're a normal, responsible adult you should be able to access most of those things in short order. Not necessarily pull them out of your pockets like magic, but if you don't have a first-aid kit you keep up to date in your car and home (you likely already have one in your office due to workplace policy) then you are in fact an irresponsible little shiat. Cash I can give or take, if your card's declined and you dont have a backup that only hurts you.
 
2012-12-16 06:52:27 PM

justinsmith354: coeyagi: justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?

Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.

Yep. And I plan not to wear a hoodie and carry Skittle and Snapple for fear of having my life deprived by some paranoid asshole.

HA! Well...sounds like you need to move to Arkansas. People are less backwards here than you might think. And not everyone is a moron like George Zimmerman. Kind of like everyone that references philosophers and Latin in their comments aren't all assholes.


Yeah, condemnation against book learnin'! Good stuff.

Also, writing what you've written then saying that Arkansas isn't all backwards does really nothing to help with my impression of Arkansas.
 
2012-12-16 06:53:02 PM
I think if you just put a school resource officer in every school like they do with middle and high schools already, that would help out quite a bit without making a litigious nightmare in having teachers carry concealed weapons in the classroom.

But that's just me.


That would be a great step in the right direction.

People need to realize that designating "No gun zones" is worse that useless. It just attracts the crazies looking for easy kills, knowing it would be unlikely anybody could shoot back at them.
 
2012-12-16 06:53:10 PM

Phony_Soldier: demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.

justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.


Then a situation in which he would need his gun to protect his family must be unreal, because any situation requiring the drawing of a gun is unreal, by his own definition.
 
2012-12-16 06:55:37 PM

Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.


You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.
 
2012-12-16 06:55:45 PM

Marcus Aurelius: BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...

Not to mention defending the indefensible.


I don't think they'd get on national television and defend the actions of the asshole who did the murder. But I see nothing wrong with still being a staunch supporter of Second Amendment rights. Especially when you have two of the biggest anti-gun loons, front and center, preaching on and on about how guns are bad.

Except in the case of Sen. Feinstein when she had a CA CCW permit and a gun in the late 70's to protect herself from loonies. Oh, and Bloomberg who has armed bodyguards to protect him from the very people he thinks are so good and kind; so well protected by the police, that they don't need a gun to protect themselves in NYC!

How quickly does Diane Feinstein forget that Columbine happened WHILE the AWB was in place. I'm sure the AWB was the first thing on Eric Harris' or Dylan Klebold's mind as they senselessly plowed through throngs of their fellow students and teachers.
 
2012-12-16 06:56:25 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.


I award you no points...and my God have mercy on your soul.

WTF am I reading? Why in the hell would I rush into a scene of a mass shooting? I can assure if I'm still alive after I hear shots in a mass shooting, my old high school 40 yard dash speed would suddenly re appear. And if I'm with my family....I'm pushing them at the same speed.

Again, not every CCW permit holder is a Zimmerman. I can assure you.
 
2012-12-16 06:56:32 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH:
Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.


I'm sure you're an expert on mass shooting events, so I'll not question your sentiment that wearing a police uniform is the only way an armed interdiction into such an event is efficacious.
 
2012-12-16 06:56:44 PM

d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.


Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

i48.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-16 06:57:46 PM
Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?
 
2012-12-16 06:58:06 PM

d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.


The problem is that you're working with a constitutionally-enshrined right, and putting obstacles, like a literacy test, before one is allowed to exercise that right has been frowned upon.
 
2012-12-16 06:58:53 PM

GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?


And they also used fresh fruit as their weapon.
 
2012-12-16 06:59:24 PM

The Name: Phony_Soldier: demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.

justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

Then a situation in which he would need his gun to protect his family must be unreal, because any situation requiring the drawing of a gun is unreal, by his own definition.


Maybe it's a personal "shiat hitting the fan" event. Like being held up. For me personally that would be "shiat hitting the fan".

Then I guess it really depends on how "shiat hitting the fan" is defined.
 
2012-12-16 06:59:29 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

i48.photobucket.com


Which of those would have prevented this incident?
 
2012-12-16 06:59:56 PM

Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.


The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.
 
2012-12-16 07:00:31 PM

Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.


That's completely false.
 
2012-12-16 07:01:09 PM
And another thing pissing me off right now is the evening news, milking this tragedy for all it's worth, right now running a list of the dead, with sad pictures and sad music. Jeez, don't these assholes realize the crazies are watching, and thinking, "Wow, what an AWESOME way of making myself notorious! Look at all the attention I could get!"
 
2012-12-16 07:01:30 PM

siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.


Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.
 
2012-12-16 07:01:36 PM

rufus-t-firefly: d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.

Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]


Again, the problem is that we have taken a dim view in the past on a literacy test before someone is allowed to exercise a right.
 
2012-12-16 07:02:09 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.


It's been a while...but in class they mentioned that in Arkansas less than 95% of CCW permit holder had ever drawn their weapons. And less than 5% of the ones that did actually fired the weapon. I don't have citations for that...I just remember that being said.

Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?
 
2012-12-16 07:03:40 PM

justinsmith354: Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?


The latter.
 
2012-12-16 07:04:08 PM

justinsmith354: demaL-demaL-yeH: Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.

It's been a while...but in class they mentioned that in Arkansas less than 95% of CCW permit holder had ever drawn their weapons. And less than 5% of the ones that did actually fired the weapon. I don't have citations for that...I just remember that being said.

Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?


Less than 95%? That's a pretty big range, ace. Again, not helping with my perception of Arkansas.
 
2012-12-16 07:04:35 PM
I'm surprised Republicans turned out to be chickens. Completely and utterly shocked
 
2012-12-16 07:04:35 PM

Pincy: GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?

And they also used fresh fruit as their weapon.


What about pointed sticks?
 
2012-12-16 07:05:40 PM

mark12A: And another thing pissing me off right now is the evening news, milking this tragedy for all it's worth, right now running a list of the dead, with sad pictures and sad music. Jeez, don't these assholes realize the crazies are watching, and thinking, "Wow, what an AWESOME way of making myself notorious! Look at all the attention I could get!"


they are talking about the victims, not the idiot who shot them.

Does it make you uncomfortable to see what the lack of real gun control can cause?
 
2012-12-16 07:05:40 PM

rufus-t-firefly: d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.

Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]


As to your image there are only two differences: Liability insurance isn't required, and on long arms training isn't required in CT: That being said In MA it is.

In order to own a pistol, you do have a written and a practical test. Your licence expires every 5 years, Every time you purchase a firearm the ATF is made aware of it by phone with the serial # caliber and length of barrel.


As far as "health requirements" there is no such thing for driving an automobile, that is patently false. If you can pass the eye exam you can drive. Oh and you only have to pass that exam once, you have to pass the ATF transfer test and the FBI background check every time you purchase or renew your license.
 
2012-12-16 07:05:41 PM

The Name: justinsmith354: Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?

The latter.


And when that day does come after busybodies have made it illegal for the law abiding to carry, it's you're fault for being wherever you were. You were just asking for it.
 
2012-12-16 07:05:42 PM

justinsmith354: WTF am I reading? Why in the hell would I rush into a scene of a mass shooting? I can assure if I'm still alive after I hear shots in a mass shooting, my old high school 40 yard dash speed would suddenly re appear. And if I'm with my family....I'm pushing them at the same speed.
Again, not every CCW permit holder is a Zimmerman. I can assure you.



You just confirmed that there is no justification for your concealed carry.
And just one Zimmerman is one too many.


toomuchwhargarbl: I'm sure you're an expert on mass shooting events, so I'll not question your sentiment that wearing a police uniform is the only way an armed interdiction into such an event is efficacious.



I'm a veteran. I still fire expert.
I've made no secret of these facts.
I've made no secret of my opinions, either: Pistols are a stupid choice of firearm. Concealed pistols are an even more stupid choice.
Now you have a choice: Would you care to rephrase that or simply wipe the egg off your face and go back under your bridge?
 
2012-12-16 07:06:04 PM

coeyagi: justinsmith354: demaL-demaL-yeH: Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.

It's been a while...but in class they mentioned that in Arkansas less than 95% of CCW permit holder had ever drawn their weapons. And less than 5% of the ones that did actually fired the weapon. I don't have citations for that...I just remember that being said.

Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?

Less than 95%? That's a pretty big range, ace. Again, not helping with my perception of Arkansas.


LMAO...5%...95% HAVE NEVER. I chuckled when I saw what I put.
 
2012-12-16 07:06:32 PM

GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?


No.
This is the thread where we wonder why politicians didn't turn up to be publicity slandered as baby killers by a left wing rag.

/It just doesn't make sense...
 
2012-12-16 07:06:43 PM

The AlbinoSaxon: tenpoundsofcheese:

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.

-2/10 Are you even trying?


no, not trying at all...yet you were the one who got hooked, not me.
 
2012-12-16 07:07:42 PM
vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.


no, that is pretty much provable.
 
2012-12-16 07:08:18 PM
way south: GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?

No.
This is the thread where we wonder why politicians didn't turn up to be publicity slandered as baby killers by a left wing rag.

/It just doesn't make sense...


Telling the truth isn't slander. Unless you're in Bizzaro Republican World.
 
2012-12-16 07:08:28 PM

Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.


And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?
 
2012-12-16 07:08:29 PM

justinsmith354: I have no reason to carry at all?


*DING-DING-DING-DING-DING*
We have a winner, farkdom!
 
2012-12-16 07:08:45 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH:
toomuchwhargarbl: I'm sure you're an expert on mass shooting events, so I'll not question your sentiment that wearing a police uniform is the only way an armed interdiction into such an event is efficacious.


I'm a veteran. I still fire expert.
I've made no secret of these facts.
I've made no secret of my opinions, either: Pistols are a stupid choice of firearm. Concealed pistols are an even more stupid choice.
Now you have a choice: Would you care to rephrase that or simply wipe the egg off your face and go back under your bridge?


I'm also a veteran. So what? And I shot expert, after I had lazer surgery on my eyes on Ft Bragg in 2001, so what?

Pistols are a defensive firearm that allow me, the concealed carrier to control an area around myself in all directions against hostile persons for around 30 yards. They are the tool to carry for self defense. Your opinions are retarded and your "egg" is just nonsensical chest beating.

Moron.
 
2012-12-16 07:09:08 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.


I thought he was joking/trolling.
 
2012-12-16 07:10:27 PM

NewportBarGuy: MisterTweak: I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws

Democrats remember what happened to them after they passed the assault weapons ban. They took a heavy beating. As long as the Republicans control the House, they know they can propose a new Assault Weapons Ban, but that it will never have enough votes to pass. So, I'm assuming that is what they will try. Hell, the Republicans might even find a way to let it pass by voting present or something and allow the Democrats to lose all the purple areas. They could play it like: "This is what the Democrat Party gave you America. They took your guns. Do you trust them to protect your children?"

I'm sure that it will be highly political and not at all focused on how to reduce these kinds of horrific events.


All the Dems have to do is vote against such a bill, and claim the Repubs don't want to protect you.
/would never happen, but a guy can dream
 
2012-12-16 07:10:28 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.


It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.
 
2012-12-16 07:11:50 PM

siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.

And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?


It's not wrong, if you are the president, vice president, governor, mayor and sole resident of the United Republic of Siphra.
 
2012-12-16 07:13:05 PM

siphra:
And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?


Look, we all know that group punishment is immoral. But these are white male "Gun nuts" we're talking about. And if every one of them isn't disarmed. Millions of children will die.
 
2012-12-16 07:14:09 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: siphra:
And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

Look, we all know that group punishment is immoral. But these are white male "Gun nuts" we're talking about. And if every one of them isn't disarmed. Millions of children will die.


I fear it might be too late.
 
2012-12-16 07:15:15 PM

mittromneysdog: UConnOIFVeteran: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better

Well, that's the important thing.

Since you seem to have a problem with making inferences, I'll clarify by saying that my sister would be more safe in a school with secured firearms able to be accessed by trained and responsible adults in the event of an emergency than she would be relying on wishes, dreams, paperwork and happy thoughts from people like you were an attack to happen at her school.

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks

Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.

Right. Because I'm sure that there's no way the government could get a desk with provisions for securing a firearm that could only be accessed by the teacher. We should stick to simpler undertakings like manned spaceflight and cloning large organisms.

Pay attention folks: gun rights advocates want to live in a world where kindergarten teachers are forced to pack heat to keep their kids safe. We can live in that world. Or, we can begin discussing repeal or amendment of the 2nd Amendment.


mittromneysdog: Pincy: You did give one suggestion about having people armed at schools.

Just to be clear, the suggestions from gun rights advocates have been kindergarten teachers packing heat. Kindergarten teachers. Packing heat.

Repeal or amendment. That's where the conversation must go from here.


mittromneysdog: Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.

That seems to be the direction the conversation is going. Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.


Lionel Mandrake: Would you like to buy a bridge? Some quality real estate in sunny Florida, maybe?

Clutch2013: Or we could do something about health care and mental health care, and maybe also deal with the fact that the people who are supposed to be the chief custodians of our gun culture are instead some of the Republican Party's biggest shills. I bet further reforms to health care and a complete overhaul/replacement of the NRA would yield better results in the long-term. Hell, maybe even short-term, too.


At least mittromneysdog isn′t one of those gun-grabbers who tries to claim that the Second Amendment doesn′t really say nor mean what it clearly and plainly says and means. I can respect the position that the Second Amendment may be outdated, have outlived its usefulness, etc., but not the usual claims that it only applies to law enforcement or the National Guard or even the military because of the word ‶militia. I disagree with that position, but I can respect it.
 
2012-12-16 07:17:34 PM
I sleep better knowing those kids would be much less dead if he'd used the pistols or shotgun instead.
 
2012-12-16 07:18:10 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: You just confirmed that there is no justification for your concealed carry.
And just one Zimmerman is one too many.


demaL-demaL-yeH: I'm a veteran. I still fire expert.
I've made no secret of these facts.
I've made no secret of my opinions, either: Pistols are a stupid choice of firearm. Concealed pistols are an even more stupid choice.


Oh I get it...so what does someone have to say for you to bless them, or give themselves "justification" for a CCW permit. It's irresponsible for anyone in my opinion to think of themselves as a protector of anyone but themselves or their family if they are carrying a CW. That being said, it's easy to say what your going to do or how your going to react to a situation, but until that time comes (God forbid), you won't know. I'd be lying if I said I don't think about "scenarios". Some drunk dirty bum holding a half ass shank, slurryly asking for my money while trembling from DT's isn't a scenario I see myself blowing the guys head off. Sorry if that doesn't give me "justification" for my CCW.

I'm also a veteran! 11B 2/504PIR 82nd ABN 99-02. Thank you for your service BTW.
 
2012-12-16 07:18:46 PM

Phony_Soldier: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

I thought he was joking/trolling.


nope, just incredibly stupid. The IQ of your average gun nut is usually about the same as the caliber of his favorite weapon.
 
2012-12-16 07:19:23 PM

GoldSpider: I sleep better knowing those kids would be much less dead if he'd used the pistols or shotgun instead.


Not less dead, just less dead people.
 
2012-12-16 07:19:46 PM

Phony_Soldier: toomuchwhargarbl: siphra:
And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

Look, we all know that group punishment is immoral. But these are white male "Gun nuts" we're talking about. And if every one of them isn't disarmed. Millions of children will die.

I fear it might be too late.


http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/thinkofthechildren.jpg
 
2012-12-16 07:20:08 PM
 
2012-12-16 07:20:19 PM

chuckufarlie: Not less dead, just less dead people.


How do you know?
 
2012-12-16 07:20:27 PM

coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.


of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.
 
2012-12-16 07:20:36 PM

coeyagi: No, no, no... the talking point is that it will reduce gun violence if we arm everyone. Because somewhere in Georgia, it actually did. It must have been so tough convincing everyone in that town to get a gun. It would be like asking them if they want to f*ck their cousin in the back of their Chevy.


I facepalmed so hard this morning: the top story in our local news is that gun sales have skyrocketed due to the recent spike in crime and violence in our podunk backwater shiathole.
 
2012-12-16 07:21:39 PM

justinsmith354: It's irresponsible for anyone in my opinion to think of themselves as a protector of anyone but themselves or their family if they are carrying a CW.


Wow, you must be really important if you feel like you need to carry a gun around, then.

justinsmith354: I'd be lying if I said I don't think about "scenarios". Some drunk dirty bum holding a half ass shank, slurryly asking for my money while trembling from DT's isn't a scenario I see myself blowing the guys head off.


Aaaaaaaaand the paranoia starts to flood out.
 
2012-12-16 07:22:24 PM
Just curious (fun little academic exercise):

Would you, as a gun owner, give up your right to bear arms today if there was an absolute guarantee that no one would be murdered by guns?

It's voluntary. And it would require everyone to do so. Fun little prisoner's dilemma. And... go.
 
2012-12-16 07:23:00 PM

chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


I can no longer tell the trolls from the non-trolls. Time for bed.
 
2012-12-16 07:23:17 PM

The Name: Wow, you must be really important if you feel like you need to carry a gun around, then.


I'm very important. Just ask my 11 year old and my 6 year old.

The Name: Aaaaaaaaand the paranoia starts to flood out.


I don't know what this means.
 
2012-12-16 07:23:57 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Not less dead, just less dead people.

How do you know?


What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.



With a revolver, it takes a few seconds to reload. One of the teachers could have knocked him down while he was doing so.
 
2012-12-16 07:24:01 PM

chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


All 20 of them? That is what the original poster said. So.... no.
 
2012-12-16 07:24:15 PM
uh, no shiat subby? After each shooting, the wharrrgbl is "Gun nuts use tragedy to advance pro-gun agenda!" NOT doing that this time is the right move.
 
2012-12-16 07:24:26 PM

chuckufarlie: of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


You know very little about guns. And "proof".
 
2012-12-16 07:24:47 PM

justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.


Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.
 
2012-12-16 07:25:18 PM
It would be nice if we could give the families/community our support while they grieve their loss before we start the poo flinging.
 
2012-12-16 07:25:34 PM

The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.


LMAO...Got it.
 
2012-12-16 07:25:52 PM

chuckufarlie: What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.


That's one possibility. Another is that he could have shot just as many people or more with the pistols. It isn't any harder to shoot a bunch of people with a semi-auto pistol than it is a semi-auto rifle.
 
2012-12-16 07:26:01 PM

thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?


Here you go
 
2012-12-16 07:27:15 PM

The Name:
Wow, you must be really important if you feel like you need to carry a gun around, then.


God forbid someone should think they're anything other than a filthy pleb who has no responsibility to protect their immediate family from predation while The Name is around. That's why we have police citizen. If confronted with other violent and/or predatory males please remain calm, curl into a ball, and whimper softly until the police arrive to provide your children with state approved protection and your wife with state sanctioned manditory sexual assault counseling.
 
2012-12-16 07:27:31 PM

minoridiot: It would be nice if we could give the families/community our support while they grieve their loss engage in self-congratulating, self-indulgent, meaningless gestures before we start the poo flinging.


FTFY. Ready to quit Facebook after this weekend.
 
2012-12-16 07:27:50 PM

The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.


OH wait...I get it now. I'm paranoid for not seeing myself pulling my CW in a situation where everyone can most likely just walk away and not get hurt. GOT IT!
 
2012-12-16 07:27:57 PM

chuckufarlie: GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Not less dead, just less dead people.

How do you know?

What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.



With a revolver, it takes a few seconds to reload. One of the teachers could have knocked him down while he was doing so.


Here you go

Glad you made the revolver concession, because my proposal doesn't cover them (The definitions set in the NFA cause that, I'm not intentionally leaving them out)
 
2012-12-16 07:28:07 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

You know very little about guns. And "proof".


I have been around rifles and pistols my entire life. And somewhere along the way I realized that there a lot of people in this country that do not have the intelligence to own and use guns.

As for proof, Einstein, the only way to truly proof this would be to get a school full of kids and shoot them. I am sure that a gun nut would have no problem with that because that right to own any weapon you want is very, very important.

It is also totally outdated and pointless.
 
2012-12-16 07:28:30 PM

coeyagi: Just curious (fun little academic exercise):

Would you, as a gun owner, give up your right to bear arms today if there was an absolute guarantee that no one would be murdered by guns?

It's voluntary. And it would require everyone to do so. Fun little prisoner's dilemma. And... go.


Killed or murdered? Also could they still be shot but they just wouldn't die? Would it be like that last season of Torchwood? Would we have hordes of people with bullet holes just stumbling around because they couldn't die? Is that was is going to start the zombie Apocalypse? Because if that is so then hell no. I will never subject the human race to a zombie apocalypse....
 
2012-12-16 07:29:13 PM

Sgt Otter: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant


Colt sells their civilian 16" semi-auto version and actually roll marks it M4.

www.impactguns.com

pedant too
 
2012-12-16 07:29:18 PM

James F. Campbell: coeyagi: No, no, no... the talking point is that it will reduce gun violence if we arm everyone. Because somewhere in Georgia, it actually did. It must have been so tough convincing everyone in that town to get a gun. It would be like asking them if they want to f*ck their cousin in the back of their Chevy.

I facepalmed so hard this morning: the top story in our local news is that gun sales have skyrocketed due to the recent spike in crime and violence in our podunk backwater shiathole.


Guns are collectible.
The law abiding are clamoring for a new law to abide by, and the only assured result is the value of firearms will multiply.

Your political stripes dont matter, You'd be an idiot not to buy now.

/Its like not wanting to buy 80's apple stock because you hate hipsters.
/I saw a guy buying a stack of pmags for a rifle he doesn't even own.
/so much as a leaf drops and his investment gets a hefty return.
 
2012-12-16 07:29:25 PM

KidneyStone: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

In case you didn't notice, not having a rifle didn't work out so well. But who's to say having a rifle would have made a difference?

I can say one thing: you can't win a raffle without having a ticket


It didn't work out so well for mother of the guy who killed her with her own weapons and then used them to shoot up a school either.
 
2012-12-16 07:29:42 PM

justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.

OH wait...I get it now. I'm paranoid for not seeing myself pulling my CW in a situation where everyone can most likely just walk away and not get hurt. GOT IT!


No, you're paranoid for dreaming up those situations in the first place.
 
2012-12-16 07:30:46 PM

coeyagi: siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.

And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

It's not wrong, if you are the president, vice president, governor, mayor and sole resident of the United Republic of Siphra.


Have you ever had a rational thought? Seriously, the comfort of my firearms hurts you or these poor children how? What if he had gone in with a Semi-auto BAR variant, what would your argument be then? If it hadn't been sporterized, but rather had traditional features, what would you say then?

Be honest: YOU don't think anyone should have guns, except the police and the military. The rest of us are supposed to live in your utopia while ignoring ours.

World-wide data doesn't support your views, the only thing you have is your 'feelings' on the matter. Truth be told I don't care what you feel. There are 80,000,000 legal owners, there are 9000 crimes, of those less than 2% per year with a running average are carried out by legal owners. You are telling me that 80,000,000 people need to pay the price because there are 9,000 a*holes out there?
 
2012-12-16 07:30:46 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: Pistols are a defensive firearm that allow me, the concealed carrier to control an area around myself in all directions against hostile persons for around 30 yards.


Bull.
Shiat.

They are the tool to carry for self defense.

Aluminum baseball bat and shotgun are far better choices.
Hell, an old-fashioned e-tool or a walking stick is a better choice.

Your opinions are retarded and your "egg" is just nonsensical chest beating.

The real-life effective range of a pistol, practically speaking, is around 18 feet. Read the report - in real life, cops have a 38% chance of hitting what they're shooting at when it's within six feet and a 17% chance of hitting what they're shooting at within 21 feet when they use pistols.

/And my baseball bat won't wound innocent bystanders, either, maroon.
//Now go wash your face.
 
2012-12-16 07:30:57 PM

siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.

And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?


No, I don't want guns to be more comfortable. I think they should be downright painful to fire. Anything to make guns less "fun" is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Now before you get started, I'm not for banning all guns. I understand that sometimes they are a necessary evil. But that's all they should be. They shouldn't be a fun toy that people enjoy using. They shouldn't be seen as cool and little kids shouldn't grow up wanting them. They should be something people regret having to use. This whole gun-worship culture has gotten out of control.

So no, I don't want to take your guns away. But I could care less about your comfort using them.
 
2012-12-16 07:32:21 PM

chuckufarlie: And somewhere along the way I realized that there a lot of people in this country that do not have the intelligence to own and use guns.


So you're arguing that this kid was too stupid to know how to use a gun? I think the result suggests otherwise.
 
2012-12-16 07:33:17 PM

The Name:
No, you're paranoid for dreaming up those situations in the first place.


Oh, the reasons prisons are filled with violent offenders is because of justinsmith354's paranoia.

Thanks for that TheName. All those people in prison will be glad to know that the violent crimes they committed were a figment of someone's imagination.

You're like the liberal version of Internet Tough Guy.
 
2012-12-16 07:37:09 PM
If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.
 
2012-12-16 07:37:10 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.

That's one possibility. Another is that he could have shot just as many people or more with the pistols. It isn't any harder to shoot a bunch of people with a semi-auto pistol than it is a semi-auto rifle.


Most people are more accurate with rifles than with pistols. Also, his rifle used magazines holding thirty rounds. That required a lot less reloading magazines than with a pistol. The pistols have a fifteen round mag.
 
2012-12-16 07:37:11 PM

siphra: coeyagi: siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.

And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

It's not wrong, if you are the president, vice president, governor, mayor and sole resident of the United Republic of Siphra.

Have you ever had a rational thought? Seriously, the comfort of my firearms hurts you or these poor children how? What if he had gone in with a Semi-auto BAR variant, what would your argument be then? If it hadn't been sporterized, but rather had traditional features, what would you say then?

Be honest: YOU don't think anyone should have guns, except the police and the military. The rest of us are supposed to live in your utopia while ignoring ours.

World-wide data doesn't support your views, the only thing you have is your 'feelings' on the matter. Truth be told I don't care what you feel. There are 80,000,000 legal owners, there are 9000 crimes, of those less than 2% per year with a running average are carried out by legal owners. You are telling me that 80,000,000 people need to pay the price because there are 9,000 a*holes out there?


I'll just say that you were wrong on most counts regarding me, my opinions or motivations. Watching you froth was worth it though.
 
2012-12-16 07:37:12 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: The Name:
No, you're paranoid for dreaming up those situations in the first place.

Oh, the reasons prisons are filled with violent offenders is because of justinsmith354's paranoia.

Thanks for that TheName. All those people in prison will be glad to know that the violent crimes they committed were a figment of someone's imagination.

You're like the liberal version of Internet Tough Guy.


I bet he doesn't wear a seat belt in cars or a helmet riding. That shiat is for paranoid squares.
 
2012-12-16 07:38:13 PM

The Name: justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.

OH wait...I get it now. I'm paranoid for not seeing myself pulling my CW in a situation where everyone can most likely just walk away and not get hurt. GOT IT!

No, you're paranoid for dreaming up those situations in the first place.


Wow. Ok. I'll get with the professionals then and see how that train or prepare mentally and physically for situations. I'm sure it's something the general public hasn't heard of. Surely they don't think (or dream) up scenarios. God help us if our police force is that paranoid.
 
2012-12-16 07:38:42 PM

James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.


And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.
 
2012-12-16 07:39:03 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: And somewhere along the way I realized that there a lot of people in this country that do not have the intelligence to own and use guns.

So you're arguing that this kid was too stupid to know how to use a gun? I think the result suggests otherwise.


actually I was not talking about this kid at all. I was making a blanket statement about gun nuts. Having the intelligence that allows you to shoot a gun is not the same as having the intelligence to use one responsibly.
 
2012-12-16 07:39:17 PM

propasaurus: A kindergarten teacher with an M4 would have prevented all of this.


A kindergarten teacher with an arms cache is where AL got his weapons. After he killed her.
 
2012-12-16 07:40:08 PM

Kome: Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Why doesn't he wish to god that the murdering psychopath didn't have a gun?


And maybe if we hadn't gutted our mental health care and research, we'd have fewer mentally ill people wandering about?

Making guns more difficult to obtain I think treats the symptom more than the disease. The disease is why we have such a high propensity to attempt to solve problems with violence. Work on that and we might have a much better solution for many long term issues.

Unfortunately, mental health is stigmatized both here and around the world. This is something I'll never understand. You don't stigmatize someone for having cancer, so why would you do this for mental health issues?

Eh, we'll just keep unsuccessfully trying to deal with this by treating the symptoms. It's the same with crime. Punishment and more strict laws, not figuring out the underlying issues and solving long term problems.

/ probably goes against the fark you, I've got mine mentality
// also against the authoritarian streak
/// and the ITG syndrome
 
2012-12-16 07:40:52 PM

chuckufarlie: the only way to truly proof this would be to get a school full of kids and shoot them.


You didn't just type this, did you? I question your judgement.
 
2012-12-16 07:42:08 PM

Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.

And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.


Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.
 
2012-12-16 07:46:11 PM

chuckufarlie: actually I was not talking about this kid at all. I was making a blanket statement about gun nuts. Having the intelligence that allows you to shoot a gun is not the same as having the intelligence to use one responsibly.


And how do you know this kid should be included in that demographic?

Which do you suppose has a stronger correlation with violent crime? Legal gun ownership or mental illness?
 
2012-12-16 07:46:23 PM

coeyagi:
Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.


I do invite the discussion, since it's going to do nothing but piss away the gains that the democrats have had in the last couple elections. America likes it's guns.
 
2012-12-16 07:46:33 PM
As long as none of this affects my ability to make home-made napalm, fertilizer bombs, and thermite I don't care if they take all my guns.
 
2012-12-16 07:46:44 PM

Farker Soze: And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.


I bet you cheer for cancer.
 
2012-12-16 07:46:48 PM

coeyagi: Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.

And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.


the sorts of people who have no beneficial use to humanity I refer to as James F. Campbells.
 
2012-12-16 07:46:55 PM
"In the wake of a tragedy, we invited 31 people who understand the 2nd Amendment on to badger them anti 2nd Amendment talking points because we're cheap like that. Now we're pouting because they're not that stupid."
 
2012-12-16 07:47:58 PM

coeyagi: Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.

And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.


OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.
 
2012-12-16 07:48:06 PM

Phony_Soldier: chuckufarlie: the only way to truly proof this would be to get a school full of kids and shoot them.

You didn't just type this, did you? I question your judgement.


I did. Notice that I did not condone it or even suggest that it should be done. I was trying to point out how stupid it is to demand real proof.
 
2012-12-16 07:48:43 PM

chuckufarlie: the only way to truly proof this would be to get a school full of kids and shoot them.


So you're adjusting your argument from "provable" to "speculation".
 
2012-12-16 07:48:51 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: coeyagi:
Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.

I do invite the discussion, since it's going to do nothing but piss away the gains that the democrats have had in the last couple elections. America likes it's guns.


And yet the right has offered little to nothing of an idea to reduce the number of gun deaths in this country. I would venture the left has offered very little more.

But hey, let's not go after the causes of the intent for murder: drug trade, mental health, notoriety, guns overly glorified. Let's just deflect and say "DURRRRR RIGHTS WHARGARBL 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS WHARGARBL!"
 
2012-12-16 07:49:29 PM
Alright, from another thread, with a couple of inclusions spurred by input:

Expand the NFA to include all NEW semi-autos (all, period), and all existing semi-autos above a threshold caliber. The threshold calibers would be .380ACP for Pistols, .30 Carbine for rifles (.223 Remington/5.56 NATO is more powerful and thus included, for all you trolls trying to go that route), 4-10 for shotguns. The reason for the threshold calibers on existing semi-autos is because it would be so expensive and practically impossible to account for every single gun out there as to be pointless. The 250 Million+ firearms number that people hear about the total number of guns in this country only accounts what can be tracked. Serial numbers were not required on guns nor was record keeping on their manufacture required until the 60's. That 250 Million plus number is just the ones we have the capability to track. People have to remember that it was common place for even department stores like Sears to manufacture little plinking rifles and pistols and sell them. Getting them all would be, well, to try would be silly. With the threshold calibers set, we'll get most everything that is considered even capable of easily killing.

Set the Tax stamp for the incoming semi-autos at $20. Use these funds to establish a more thorough NICS database AND reporting system. Those reported as mentally unstable or otherwise unfit get a friendly visit from BATFE and if the BATFE agent concurs, possession is revoked until an evaluation is performed and permanence of that status decided. Also establish offices for BATFE, just like the DMV, where people can come in and get their license issues resolved same day. Keep the current mail in system for those out in the boonies. Repeal the Hughes amendment (which did literally nothing, NFA weapons already weren't being used in crimes), and treat suppressors (KEEPING THE TAX STAMP, just switching it to $20 instead of $200) as safety equipment. All paid for with revenues from the tax stamps. Easily. Hell there'd be a huge surplus in revenue from it, use that to help repair the mental health system, I insist.

This accomplishes several things, registration, licensing (you have to be approved for the stamp), and if you really want to, do the CCW thing and require basic classes be completed. The important thing is to streamline everything so that it's at least as functional as the DMV.
 
2012-12-16 07:49:51 PM

Farker Soze: coeyagi: Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.

And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.

OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.


And now we know Allen West's fark handle.
 
2012-12-16 07:50:17 PM

edmo: I would love to hear some serious proposals from them on how to deal with this stuff. Or the deficit. Or the national debt. Or the debt ceiling. At least the NFL, NBA,and PGA are still non-profit organizations exempt from taxes. Yay Senate.


Good luck. I know Facebook isn't a scientific data collection method, but here's how it breaks down among my friends:

Liberal Friends: some are calling for stronger gun control. Some are calling for stronger ammunition control. Some are calling for increased investment in mental health services.

Conservative Friends: Posting pictures of candles and talking about how 20 new angels are spending Christmas with Jesus.
 
2012-12-16 07:50:52 PM

James F. Campbell: Farker Soze: And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

I bet you cheer for cancer.


You're the one wishing people to be killed by their own family members. What kind of monster are you?
 
2012-12-16 07:51:15 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: actually I was not talking about this kid at all. I was making a blanket statement about gun nuts. Having the intelligence that allows you to shoot a gun is not the same as having the intelligence to use one responsibly.

And how do you know this kid should be included in that demographic?

Which do you suppose has a stronger correlation with violent crime? Legal gun ownership or mental illness?


WOW, you are really thick. I told that I was not talking about the kid. What part of that sentence are you having problems with?

Let me clarify it for you. From the comments that I have seen here, the gun owners that have posted here are too stupid to be allowed to own a gun.

Does that help? You have shown a remarkable level of stupidity so it is possible that you need it further explained.
 
2012-12-16 07:51:43 PM

The Why Not Guy: edmo: I would love to hear some serious proposals from them on how to deal with this stuff. Or the deficit. Or the national debt. Or the debt ceiling. At least the NFL, NBA,and PGA are still non-profit organizations exempt from taxes. Yay Senate.

Good luck. I know Facebook isn't a scientific data collection method, but here's how it breaks down among my friends:

Liberal Friends: some are calling for stronger gun control. Some are calling for stronger ammunition control. Some are calling for increased investment in mental health services.

Conservative Friends: Posting pictures of candles and talking about how 20 new angels are spending Christmas with Jesus.


Really? All I see are the Navy Seal Team Six going after Osama and something about arming Israeli teachers. You know, real low hanging fruit stuff.
 
2012-12-16 07:52:39 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: America likes it's guns.


We like our first-graders too.
 
2012-12-16 07:53:14 PM

chuckufarlie: Let me clarify it for you. From the comments that I have seen here, the gun owners that have posted here are too stupid to be allowed to own a gun.


And yet I'd wager that none of them have killed another human being with a gun, let alone gone on a shooting rampage. What are the odds??
 
2012-12-16 07:53:25 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: toomuchwhargarbl: America likes it's guns.

We like our first-graders too.


Well, those first-graders should have been packing. Obviously, they didn't love themselves (or America) that much to protect themselves.
 
2012-12-16 07:53:26 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: the only way to truly proof this would be to get a school full of kids and shoot them.

So you're adjusting your argument from "provable" to "speculation".


You are a tremendous idiot. It is not speculation. Anybody with two active brain cells would be able to understand my statement and see the validity of it. Sadly, you are at least one active brain cell short.
 
2012-12-16 07:53:59 PM

coeyagi:

And yet the right has offered little to nothing of an idea to reduce the number of gun deaths in this country. I would venture the left has offered very little more.

But hey, let's not go after the causes of the intent for murder: drug trade, mental health, notoriety, guns overly glorified. Let's just deflect and say "DURRRRR RIGHTS WHARGARBL 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS WHARGARBL!"


Wait, democrats are going after those things? Mental health, hollywood driven culture? Because all I've heard from them is DURRRR WHARGARBL WHITE CHRISTIAN REPUBLICAN GUN NUTS MUST BE DISARMED HURRRRR DUUUURP.
 
2012-12-16 07:54:06 PM

coeyagi: Farker Soze: coeyagi: Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.

And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.

OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

And now we know Allen West's fark handle.


For not wishing people be killed because they don't believe in my personal agenda to improve society? I fail to see how that makes me like Allen West.
 
2012-12-16 07:54:12 PM

Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.


y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.
 
2012-12-16 07:54:47 PM

Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: Farker Soze: And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

I bet you cheer for cancer.

You're the one wishing people to be killed by their own family members. What kind of monster are you?


the kind who thinks he's just being a bold and badass liberal when in reality he's a soulless, attention whoring cancer on the ass of humanity.
 
2012-12-16 07:54:56 PM

Farker Soze: coeyagi: Farker Soze: coeyagi: Farker Soze: James F. Campbell: If you have guns in your home, you're more likely to kill or be killed by a family member or intimate acquaintance than you are to use your guns to fend off a home invasion.

I hope all you gun nuts have lots and lots and lots of guns in your houses.

And they told me gun nuts were the violent ones who wish death on others.

Gun nuts, Republicans, Christians... I could use labels all day for the special kind of asshole that thinks only about his own Rights and doesn't even want to have a discussion about improving society because they're paranoid about losing said right. You also have the Right to be killed. It would seem the only logical way to have the conversation move in a constructive direction.

OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

And now we know Allen West's fark handle.

For not wishing people be killed because they don't believe in my personal agenda to improve society? I fail to see how that makes me like Allen West.


Obviously, you can't read the difficult language of bold.
 
2012-12-16 07:56:05 PM

coeyagi: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: toomuchwhargarbl: America likes it's guns.

We like our first-graders too.

Well, those first-graders should have been packing. Obviously, they didn't love themselves (or America) that much to protect themselves.


This is a totally rational argument. What can even be said. It's either guns or you aren't "thinking of the children."
 
2012-12-16 07:56:43 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: coeyagi: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: toomuchwhargarbl: America likes it's guns.

We like our first-graders too.

Well, those first-graders should have been packing. Obviously, they didn't love themselves (or America) that much to protect themselves.

This is a totally rational sarcastic argument. What can even be said. It's either guns or you aren't "thinking of the children."


FTFY, Francis.
 
2012-12-16 07:57:04 PM

Farker Soze:
For not wishing people be killed because they don't believe in my personal agenda to improve society? I fail to see how that makes me like Allen West.


well there was that whole 'random accusation of communism' thing....
 
2012-12-16 07:57:40 PM

The Why Not Guy: edmo: I would love to hear some serious proposals from them on how to deal with this stuff. Or the deficit. Or the national debt. Or the debt ceiling. At least the NFL, NBA,and PGA are still non-profit organizations exempt from taxes. Yay Senate.

Good luck. I know Facebook isn't a scientific data collection method, but here's how it breaks down among my friends:

Liberal Friends: some are calling for stronger gun control. Some are calling for stronger ammunition control. Some are calling for increased investment in mental health services.

Conservative Friends: Posting pictures of candles and talking about how 20 new angels are spending Christmas with Jesus.


So one side is looking for solutions and one side is shoving their head in the sand and pretending the problem doesn't exist
 
2012-12-16 07:57:46 PM

chuckufarlie: Anybody with two active brain cells would be able to understand my statement and see the validity of it.


Your speculative scenario was as plausible as many. That's as much credit as it deserves.
 
2012-12-16 07:57:49 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Let me clarify it for you. From the comments that I have seen here, the gun owners that have posted here are too stupid to be allowed to own a gun.

And yet I'd wager that none of them have killed another human being with a gun, let alone gone on a shooting rampage. What are the odds??


That was not my point. I was just pointing out how incredibly stupid you and your farker gun nuts are. Being the poster boy for stupid, I can see how that caused you problems.
 
2012-12-16 07:58:01 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH:
You don't have to conceal a baseball bat, farkwit.
Race baiting?
Seriously?
It's almost 2013.

/I'll dye your sheets and pillowcases pink so they make fun of you at your club's next lower-case t bonfire.


I don't have to conceal my handgun either, but I do as a public service so people like you won't piss your pants at seeing it.
 
2012-12-16 07:58:41 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Anybody with two active brain cells would be able to understand my statement and see the validity of it.

Your speculative scenario was as plausible as many. That's as much credit as it deserves.


those are some pretty big words for an idiot. Did you have help with that post?
 
2012-12-16 07:59:04 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: coeyagi: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: toomuchwhargarbl: America likes it's guns.

We like our first-graders too.

Well, those first-graders should have been packing. Obviously, they didn't love themselves (or America) that much to protect themselves.

This is a totally rational argument. What can even be said. It's either guns or you aren't "thinking of the children."

chicken (in all possible senses). FTFY, wizard.
 
2012-12-16 07:59:48 PM

Weaver95: Farker Soze:
For not wishing people be killed because they don't believe in my personal agenda to improve society? I fail to see how that makes me like Allen West.

well there was that whole 'random accusation of communism' thing....


Yes, there was that.

He also seemed to latch on to me saying something about improving society, but because I said it after saying (parapharsing me) that we need not be so paranoid about our rights, he assumed I was living in some communist utopia.

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.
 
2012-12-16 08:00:36 PM

chuckufarlie: GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Anybody with two active brain cells would be able to understand my statement and see the validity of it.

Your speculative scenario was as plausible as many. That's as much credit as it deserves.

those are some pretty big words for an idiot. Did you have help with that post?


The incredible shrinking thread in 3.... 2.... 1....
 
2012-12-16 08:01:21 PM

Weaver95: Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.


Sure. It's when he starts saying I have the Right to be Killed is when I stop taking him seriously, or start thinking of him as an asshole and not care how serious he is from then on out.
 
2012-12-16 08:01:32 PM
As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED
 
2012-12-16 08:01:38 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: demaL-demaL-yeH:
You don't have to conceal a baseball bat, farkwit.
Race baiting?
Seriously?
It's almost 2013.

/I'll dye your sheets and pillowcases pink so they make fun of you at your club's next lower-case t bonfire.

I don't have to conceal my handgun either, but I do as a public service so people like you won't piss your pants at seeing it.


Want to do a public service? Don't conceal.
It helps sane people positively identify paranoid, pants-pissing idiots from further away.
 
2012-12-16 08:01:48 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: FTFY, wizard.


This is also a great one.

Earlier in the thread

"All these white christian republicans are the problem"

One post later

"omg you said jew, what are you, in the klan?"

Screw off, Shecky. Ignored.
 
2012-12-16 08:02:30 PM

Friction8r: As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED


As pointed out in another thread, don't bring a fetus to a gun fight.
 
2012-12-16 08:02:50 PM

chuckufarlie: those are some pretty big words for an idiot. Did you have help with that post?


How do I know your argument has abandoned you?
 
2012-12-16 08:02:55 PM

Farker Soze: Weaver95: Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.

Sure. It's when he starts saying I have the Right to be Killed is when I stop taking him seriously, or start thinking of him as an asshole and not care how serious he is from then on out.


That's funny, I stop taking people seriously who don't take me seriously or misread shiat. Cheers, bro! Hope your campaign to arm America goes swimmingly (or whatever fantastic idea you have to stem the tide of violence).
 
2012-12-16 08:03:26 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH:
Want to do a public service? Don't conceal.
It helps sane people positively identify paranoid, pants-pissing idiots from further away.


Want to do a public service? Cry harder that you can't disarm me for the purposes of your own mental health. It's free entertainment for Farkers.
 
2012-12-16 08:03:35 PM

Friction8r: As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED


FETUS != CHILD

GUN THREAD != ABORTION THREAD

Obvious troll is obvious.
 
2012-12-16 08:03:53 PM

Friction8r: As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED


Finally, a serious national discussion about trolling.
 
2012-12-16 08:04:32 PM

Pincy: Friction8r: As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED

As pointed out in another thread, don't bring a fetus to a gun fight.


*shakes internet fist*
 
2012-12-16 08:04:58 PM

coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.


the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?
 
2012-12-16 08:05:24 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: demaL-demaL-yeH:
Want to do a public service? Don't conceal.
It helps sane people positively identify paranoid, pants-pissing idiots from further away.

Want to do a public service? Cry harder that you can't disarm me for the purposes of your own mental health. It's free entertainment for Farkers.


Wouldn't "F*ck you, I got mine" be a lot quicker to write?
 
2012-12-16 08:06:05 PM
Of course not. They're too busy hyperventilating over a duck stamp that magically appeared on Election Day.

/It was invisible when the Democrat introduced the act containing it months ago.
 
2012-12-16 08:06:15 PM

siphra: In Israel they had similar issues, teachers were issued guns, school shootings went away.


WTF?? Citation
 
2012-12-16 08:06:59 PM

Weaver95: coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.

the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?


How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?
 
2012-12-16 08:07:30 PM

IlGreven: Of course not. They're too busy hyperventilating over a duck stamp that magically appeared on Election Day.

/It was invisible when the Democrat introduced the act containing it months ago.


duck stamp?
 
2012-12-16 08:07:40 PM

Friction8r: As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED


I am wracking my brains trying to figure out what abortion has to do with this discussion....
 
2012-12-16 08:07:47 PM

Sgt Otter: ...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant


Don't worry. She's employed by the ebil gubmint, making her not a civilian. Problem solved.
 
2012-12-16 08:07:55 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.


It's provably false. Just what do you think was unavailable during the ban?
 
2012-12-16 08:08:25 PM

zedster: siphra: In Israel they had similar issues, teachers were issued guns, school shootings went away.

WTF?? Citation


Look on Facebook. The infographic is everywhere on your derpiest friends' walls.

I am sure it is about as thorough an argument as "Kids eat candy. Candy contains sugar. Sugar causes diabetes. Kids are diabetic."
 
2012-12-16 08:08:29 PM
img2.timeinc.net

Don't stop the derpage people... I have to stay awake for another 7 hrs...
 
2012-12-16 08:08:29 PM

Friction8r: As I succinctly pointed out in another thread, liberals have murdered far more children with their sickening abortion laws than other murderers have with guns.

/QED


Full retard. You went there
 
2012-12-16 08:08:33 PM

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: those are some pretty big words for an idiot. Did you have help with that post?

How do I know your argument has abandoned you?


I have not abandoned by argument. I have just abandoned any attempt to explain it to YOU.

Does your constant drooling have an adverse impact on your keyboard?
 
2012-12-16 08:08:55 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?


Precisely. Thank goodness Congress finally abolished the use of the word "lunatic" from official documents, because it's offensive to the kind of people who shoot up a school full of children.
 
2012-12-16 08:09:02 PM

toomuchwhargarbl:

How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?


i'd love to discuss fixing our health care system. problem is, the GOP keeps trying to repeal the law Obama passed to address that (and other) issue(s). something about socialisms?
 
2012-12-16 08:09:26 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: Weaver95: coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.

the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?

How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?


It's convenient how all of a sudden a lot of people are concerned about addressing mental health. Probably the same people who think Obamacare is socialism.
 
2012-12-16 08:09:28 PM

IlGreven: Sgt Otter: ...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant

Don't worry. She's employed by the ebil gubmint, making her not a civilian. Problem solved.


I'm sure that if we gave the teachers police uniforms, liberals would be fine with them carrying guns. Since government uniforms magically grant authority, responsibility, & cool-headedness.
 
2012-12-16 08:09:30 PM

COMALite J: At least mittromneysdog isn′t one of those gun-grabbers who tries to claim that the Second Amendment doesn′t really say nor mean what it clearly and plainly says and means.


The second Amendment is NOT clear and plain.
 
2012-12-16 08:09:31 PM

skullkrusher: IlGreven: Of course not. They're too busy hyperventilating over a duck stamp that magically appeared on Election Day.

/It was invisible when the Democrat introduced the act containing it months ago.

duck stamp?


RABBIT STAMP
 
2012-12-16 08:09:32 PM

coeyagi: Farker Soze: Weaver95: Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.

Sure. It's when he starts saying I have the Right to be Killed is when I stop taking him seriously, or start thinking of him as an asshole and not care how serious he is from then on out.

That's funny, I stop taking people seriously who don't take me seriously or misread shiat. Cheers, bro! Hope your campaign to arm America goes swimmingly (or whatever fantastic idea you have to stem the tide of violence).


I've posted this before...but crime has gone down significantly in the last 20 years. Around 50% per capita for homicides and violent crime. Shouldn't we be looking at what caused that and expanding efforts into that direction instead?  Link
 
2012-12-16 08:09:32 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's provably false. Just what do you think was unavailable during the ban?


then by all means, scooter, go ahead and prove it false.
 
2012-12-16 08:09:56 PM

One Bad Apple: skullkrusher: IlGreven: Of course not. They're too busy hyperventilating over a duck stamp that magically appeared on Election Day.

/It was invisible when the Democrat introduced the act containing it months ago.

duck stamp?

RABBIT STAMP


mushroom stamp?
 
2012-12-16 08:10:23 PM

Pincy:
It's convenient how all of a sudden a lot of people are concerned about addressing mental health. Probably the same people who think Obamacare is socialism.


And you say conservatives are trying to drive the discussion into a ditch?
 
2012-12-16 08:10:59 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: Weaver95: coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.

the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?

How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?


A) Doubtful she wants to punish you.
B) It's pretty awesome that you think not having a gun is some great punishment. While I am not advocating take away anyone's right, I get a gleeful countenance thinking of pouty faced hicks and other assorted camouflaged "patriots" stomping and huffing and puffing about their loss of guns. You truly have no idea what suffering is, guy-who-probably-never-lost-a-family-member-due-to-gun-violence.
 
2012-12-16 08:10:59 PM

Phony_Soldier: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

I thought he was joking/trolling.


Nope. People have an odd conception of the ban. The AR-15 was available, only it couldn't be sold with a 10 round mag. However, it was legal to buy after-market 30-round mags. I know because I went with a friend who turned out to be a teabagger and watched him buy them.
 
2012-12-16 08:11:00 PM

coeyagi: Farker Soze: Weaver95: Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.

Sure. It's when he starts saying I have the Right to be Killed is when I stop taking him seriously, or start thinking of him as an asshole and not care how serious he is from then on out.

That's funny, I stop taking people seriously who don't take me seriously or misread shiat. Cheers, bro! Hope your campaign to arm America goes swimmingly (or whatever fantastic idea you have to stem the tide of violence).


I make a joke about a troll wishing violence on others thinking he has the moral high ground, and you start in on me for no reason. So I assume you approve of James Cambell's jackassery. I guess it was all a misunderstanding, so nevermind. Cheers to you too, go on blaming hunks of metal and ignore the underlying cause of mental illness because comprehensive health and psychiatric care from birth is hard.
 
2012-12-16 08:11:12 PM

Pincy: toomuchwhargarbl: Weaver95: coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.

the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?

How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?

It's convenient how all of a sudden a lot of people are concerned about addressing mental health. Probably the same people who think Obamacare is socialism.


HERE

There's a proposal. From a gunsmith no less.
 
2012-12-16 08:11:13 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?


All right, Mr. Sensible. I suppose you'd support a national, publicly-funded initiative to research the connection between violence and mental health and to offer treatment to those who need it?

Because this gun-hater would LOVE that!
 
2012-12-16 08:11:18 PM

randomjsa: "In the wake of a tragedy, we invited 31 people who understand the 2nd Amendment on to badger them anti 2nd Amendment talking points because we're cheap like that. Now we're pouting because they're not that stupid."


Yeah, we covered that: they declined because they're pussies who can't defend their position. 
 
2012-12-16 08:11:48 PM

Weaver95: I am wracking my brains trying to figure out what abortion has to do with this discussion....


If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.
 
2012-12-16 08:12:26 PM

chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


I'm not making any assertion about whether different weapons would have yoelded different results. But the same weapon was available.
 
2012-12-16 08:12:50 PM

The Name: toomuchwhargarbl: How about addressing mental health? There's some easy low hanging fruit that doesn't involve people literally shooting at each other because Feinstein can't stand the idea that I'm not being punished for the actions of this lunatic?

All right, Mr. Sensible. I suppose you'd support a national, publicly-funded initiative to research the connection between violence and mental health and to offer treatment to those who need it?

Because this gun-hater would LOVE that!


Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.
 
2012-12-16 08:12:51 PM

Farker Soze: coeyagi: Farker Soze: Weaver95: Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.

Sure. It's when he starts saying I have the Right to be Killed is when I stop taking him seriously, or start thinking of him as an asshole and not care how serious he is from then on out.

That's funny, I stop taking people seriously who don't take me seriously or misread shiat. Cheers, bro! Hope your campaign to arm America goes swimmingly (or whatever fantastic idea you have to stem the tide of violence).

I make a joke about a troll wishing violence on others thinking he has the moral high ground, and you start in on me for no reason. So I assume you approve of James Cambell's jackassery. I guess it was all a misunderstanding, so nevermind. Cheers to you too, go on blaming hunks of metal and ignore the underlying cause of mental illness because comprehensive health and psychiatric care from birth is hard.


Yeah, I only posted "mental health" about 20 times today on Fark, and several times in this thread. But go on skimming the thread if you take pride in being misinformed.
 
2012-12-16 08:14:07 PM

rufus-t-firefly: d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.

Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]


Don't forget "Illegal to operate while intoxicated or under the influence of controlled substances."
 
2012-12-16 08:14:24 PM

jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?


Hey - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy.
 
2012-12-16 08:14:31 PM
Alright, gotta go, but I want this issue fixed by tomorrow morning. Fark will let me down if I ever see another shooting like this again.
 
2012-12-16 08:15:27 PM

The Name: All right, Mr. Sensible. I suppose you'd support a national, publicly-funded initiative to research the connection between violence and mental health and to offer treatment to those who need it?

Because this gun-hater would LOVE that!


Sign me up.
 
2012-12-16 08:15:31 PM

vygramul: chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

I'm not making any assertion about whether different weapons would have yoelded different results. But the same weapon was available.


got a citation for that?
 
2012-12-16 08:16:33 PM

coeyagi: A) Doubtful she wants to punish you.
B) It's pretty awesome that you think not having a gun is some great punishment. While I am not advocating take away anyone's right, I get a gleeful countenance thinking of pouty faced hicks and other assorted camouflaged "patriots" stomping and huffing and puffing about their loss of guns. You truly have no idea what suffering is, guy-who-probably-never-lost-a-family-member-due-to-gun-violence.


Yes I get it, you're a weak sauced little qwar who gets a half chub off of the sense of agency you'd get from sitting back and having some government jackboots try and disarm me. And then even to add a cherry to the douche sundae, preaching at me about how I don't even know what suffering is. I was deployed to Iraq in 2003, and I cleaned people up off the road from bombs that Iraqis aimed at their fellow countrymen more than once. I promise you, I'm not some camo fastooned hick, though if it helps you maintain your internet boner, continue to imagine whatever you like.
 
2012-12-16 08:16:40 PM

coeyagi: Alright, gotta go, but I want this issue fixed by tomorrow morning. Fark will let me down if I ever see another shooting like this again.


Just make more guns illegal, and make illegal guns MORE illegal, and we can call it a day.
 
2012-12-16 08:16:52 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.


Well then, a modicum of kudos to you. Unfortunately, most of the people who obsess over their guns are the same people who don't want government to spend money on anything except wars and medicare.
 
2012-12-16 08:17:57 PM

Tellingthem: I've posted this before...but crime has gone down significantly in the last 20 years. Around 50% per capita for homicides and violent crime. Shouldn't we be looking at what caused that and expanding efforts into that direction instead?


That's easy. More abortion. Roe v. Wade had a big effect.

These school shootings are outliers though. We need to fix the crazy to help with that.
 
2012-12-16 08:18:40 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's provably false. Just what do you think was unavailable during the ban?

then by all means, scooter, go ahead and prove it false.


The law also banned possession of illegally imported or manufactured firearms, but did not ban possession or sale of pre-existing 'assault weapons' or previously factory standard magazines that were legally redefined as large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

And it wasn't hard to get. You could still buy an AR-15, it just came wihout a bayonet lug and folding stock and then buy high-cap mags.

QED
 
2012-12-16 08:19:07 PM
it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?
 
2012-12-16 08:19:28 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: coeyagi: A) Doubtful she wants to punish you.
B) It's pretty awesome that you think not having a gun is some great punishment. While I am not advocating take away anyone's right, I get a gleeful countenance thinking of pouty faced hicks and other assorted camouflaged "patriots" stomping and huffing and puffing about their loss of guns. You truly have no idea what suffering is, guy-who-probably-never-lost-a-family-member-due-to-gun-violence.

Yes I get it, you're a weak sauced little qwar who gets a half chub off of the sense of agency you'd get from sitting back and having some government jackboots try and disarm me. And then even to add a cherry to the douche sundae, preaching at me about how I don't even know what suffering is. I was deployed to Iraq in 2003, and I cleaned people up off the road from bombs that Iraqis aimed at their fellow countrymen more than once. I promise you, I'm not some camo fastooned hick, though if it helps you maintain your internet boner, continue to imagine whatever you like.


I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.
 
2012-12-16 08:20:27 PM

chuckufarlie: vygramul: chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

I'm not making any assertion about whether different weapons would have yoelded different results. But the same weapon was available.

got a citation for that?


Just follow the above link to wikipedia. You could still get the AR-15 only it had to come with a 10 round mag.
 
2012-12-16 08:20:28 PM

The Name: toomuchwhargarbl: Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.

Well then, a modicum of kudos to you. Unfortunately, most of the people who obsess over their guns are the same people who don't want government to spend money on anything except wars and medicare.


I'd even go farther and say that the removal of government funding from mental health and the incarceration of the mentally ill is unconstitutional and falls under cruel and unusual punishment. I'm still not giving up my guns though.
 
2012-12-16 08:21:29 PM

Farker Soze: Tellingthem: I've posted this before...but crime has gone down significantly in the last 20 years. Around 50% per capita for homicides and violent crime. Shouldn't we be looking at what caused that and expanding efforts into that direction instead?

That's easy. More abortion. Roe v. Wade had a big effect.

These school shootings are outliers though. We need to fix the crazy to help with that.


There's also some arguments about reduced exposure to lead helping as well.

Take a bunch of people who weren't wanted and were poorly supported in early life, expose them to poisonous heavy metals growing up, and hey...crime!
 
2012-12-16 08:21:31 PM

jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.


If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.
 
2012-12-16 08:21:32 PM

coeyagi: Farker Soze: coeyagi: Farker Soze: Weaver95: Farker Soze:
OK Mao. Hope your next five year plan works splendidly. Try not to starve too many millions of farmers.

y'know...having a discussion about guns and their role in our society is an appropriate discussion to have in the wake of this sort of disaster. what are our laws? is there something we could have done to prevent this? could we have minimized the damage? how can we do better? all valid questions to ask. revisiting the gun control issue - also valid at this point.

you might not like it very much...but it's gonna happen anyway. you might not want to casually dismiss the subject so easily.

Sure. It's when he starts saying I have the Right to be Killed is when I stop taking him seriously, or start thinking of him as an asshole and not care how serious he is from then on out.

That's funny, I stop taking people seriously who don't take me seriously or misread shiat. Cheers, bro! Hope your campaign to arm America goes swimmingly (or whatever fantastic idea you have to stem the tide of violence).

I make a joke about a troll wishing violence on others thinking he has the moral high ground, and you start in on me for no reason. So I assume you approve of James Cambell's jackassery. I guess it was all a misunderstanding, so nevermind. Cheers to you too, go on blaming hunks of metal and ignore the underlying cause of mental illness because comprehensive health and psychiatric care from birth is hard.

Yeah, I only posted "mental health" about 20 times today on Fark, and several times in this thread. But go on skimming the thread if you take pride in being misinformed.


Kind of like how I said no such thing about campaigning to arm America. Must be nice swimming in willful ignorance.
 
2012-12-16 08:21:42 PM

GardenWeasel: propasaurus: A kindergarten teacher with an M4 would have prevented all of this.

A kindergarten teacher with an arms cache is where AL got his weapons. After he killed her.


Tell that to Louie Gohmert.
 
2012-12-16 08:21:42 PM
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is found or turned in, you pay insurance on it. I like that idea. Make it expensive to own a gun. Not illegal. It falls within the second amendment and would do a lot to make gun owners responsible.
 
2012-12-16 08:21:43 PM

Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?


Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.
 
2012-12-16 08:22:19 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: The Name: toomuchwhargarbl: Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.

Well then, a modicum of kudos to you. Unfortunately, most of the people who obsess over their guns are the same people who don't want government to spend money on anything except wars and medicare.

I'd even go farther and say that the removal of government funding from mental health and the incarceration of the mentally ill is unconstitutional and falls under cruel and unusual punishment. I'm still not giving up my guns though.


Me neither - but you don't hear me crying about it all day like a little biatch.
 
2012-12-16 08:23:57 PM

jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: The Name: toomuchwhargarbl: Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.

Well then, a modicum of kudos to you. Unfortunately, most of the people who obsess over their guns are the same people who don't want government to spend money on anything except wars and medicare.

I'd even go farther and say that the removal of government funding from mental health and the incarceration of the mentally ill is unconstitutional and falls under cruel and unusual punishment. I'm still not giving up my guns though.

Me neither - but you don't hear me crying about it all day like a little biatch.


Funny, cause your posts sound like biatch crying to me.
 
2012-12-16 08:24:01 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

I can no longer tell the trolls from the non-trolls. Time for bed.


I assure you I am neither trolling nor a member of the NRA.
 
2012-12-16 08:24:08 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.


Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.
 
2012-12-16 08:24:21 PM

Azlefty: jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?

Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves


Do you have a citation for that "taxpayer protection" thingy?
 
2012-12-16 08:24:41 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.


Oh ya, well my Krav Maga will kick your Muay Thai ass.

Seriously, we are all martial arts experts ex-military trained assassins married to supermodels and living in mansions. So you can just forget the Internet Tough Guy act because nobody believes you.
 
2012-12-16 08:24:58 PM

chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is found or turned in, you pay insurance on it. I like that idea. Make ...


Good luck repealing the 2nd Amendment to get that done.

HERE

That's about the closest you're going to get to fixing the problem. I'm a gunsmith, and even I'm willing to make some concessions. But to think you're going to repeal the 2nd Amendment is lunacy, for at least the next 35-50 years.
 
2012-12-16 08:25:19 PM

jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.


I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.
 
2012-12-16 08:26:07 PM

vygramul: Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?

Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.


they'd claim they have a stomach ache, then change the subject and run out of the room fast as they could.
 
2012-12-16 08:27:01 PM

vygramul: toomuchwhargarbl: chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

I can no longer tell the trolls from the non-trolls. Time for bed.

I assure you I am neither trolling nor a member of the NRA.


Well I was hoping you were since I'm not interested in a discussion on the efficiency of firearms employed against children. Though the argument in a nutshell is "It doesn't matter much what he had, because kindergarteners are helpless."
 
2012-12-16 08:27:20 PM
Meanwhile in Indiana

Dammit.


I've always considered myself a pro-gun liberal, but if you farkers are going to keep acting like this, I'm going to have to reconsider my position.
 
2012-12-16 08:28:20 PM
I like that the folks who make the argument that 'murder is already illegal, so there's no use in banning guns' are the same people who think we should ban marijuana because someone could get into a car crash while stoned and possibly kill someone. Even though driving impaired is already illegal.
 
2012-12-16 08:28:30 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.


If I wasn't a rail-thin pansy, and wanted to prove I wasn't just an ITG, I'd post my home address with my ITG'ing. Of course, that's just not my style.
 
2012-12-16 08:28:32 PM

jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.


Yeah, stand up fights are for girls. Everyone knows real men take it to the ground.
 
2012-12-16 08:28:39 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: The Name: toomuchwhargarbl: Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.

Well then, a modicum of kudos to you. Unfortunately, most of the people who obsess over their guns are the same people who don't want government to spend money on anything except wars and medicare.

I'd even go farther and say that the removal of government funding from mental health and the incarceration of the mentally ill is unconstitutional and falls under cruel and unusual punishment. I'm still not giving up my guns though.

Me neither - but you don't hear me crying about it all day like a little biatch.

Funny, cause your posts sound like biatch crying to me.


AW come on - you don't hear me crying about the liberals taking my guns away. Hell, they don't want my guns. My guns are old, and confusing, and require odd and arcane ammo.
All you do is snivel that somebody's going to take your guns - and when somebody does, it will be the neighborhood junkie who saw your belligerent "Beware of Owner" or "Insured by Smith& Wesson" sign and realized your house would be a good one to burglarize - gun owners are the most profitable targets.
Nobody wants you, or your crappy guns, fool. Get real with the world. Shiatheads like you represent about 2% of humanity.
 
2012-12-16 08:28:45 PM

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


I think one full year between mass shootings is the perfect time to discuss this.
 
2012-12-16 08:28:50 PM

vygramul: Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?

Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.


Damn, that is a great idea. The Dems should introduce legislation next week to expand Obamacare in order to cover mental health more adequately. They can pay for it by taxing gun owners, maybe charging them a registration fee every year or something. Sort of how we charge cigarette smokers by taxing the shiat out of cigarettes.
 
2012-12-16 08:29:06 PM

Pincy: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Oh ya, well my Krav Maga will kick your Muay Thai ass.

Seriously, we are all martial arts experts ex-military trained assassins married to supermodels and living in mansions. So you can just forget the Internet Tough Guy act because nobody believes you.


I'm not the one threatening to kick anyone's ass. That would be you, so here's a mirror, play spot the douche.
 
2012-12-16 08:29:52 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: The Name: toomuchwhargarbl: Yes, I would support that. And an increase in federal support for state mental health facilities.

Well then, a modicum of kudos to you. Unfortunately, most of the people who obsess over their guns are the same people who don't want government to spend money on anything except wars and medicare.

I'd even go farther and say that the removal of government funding from mental health and the incarceration of the mentally ill is unconstitutional and falls under cruel and unusual punishment. I'm still not giving up my guns though.

Me neither - but you don't hear me crying about it all day like a little biatch.

Funny, cause your posts sound like biatch crying to me.


Funny, cause your posts sound like too much whargarbl to me.
 
2012-12-16 08:30:12 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.

I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.


Nobody wants to do anything to your ass - on or off the Internet. Your ass is fat, has pimples, and is unnattractive.
 
2012-12-16 08:30:30 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: Pincy: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Oh ya, well my Krav Maga will kick your Muay Thai ass.

Seriously, we are all martial arts experts ex-military trained assassins married to supermodels and living in mansions. So you can just forget the Internet Tough Guy act because nobody believes you.

I'm not the one threatening to kick anyone's ass. That would be you, so here's a mirror, play spot the douche.


Also Lol Krav Maga. You going to come get in the ring, bite me, and grab my balls?
 
2012-12-16 08:30:48 PM
Are we really shocked that the Republicans can't stand for any of their phony values?
 
2012-12-16 08:31:06 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: vygramul: toomuchwhargarbl: chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

I can no longer tell the trolls from the non-trolls. Time for bed.

I assure you I am neither trolling nor a member of the NRA.

Well I was hoping you were since I'm not interested in a discussion on the efficiency of firearms employed against children. Though the argument in a nutshell is "It doesn't matter much what he had, because kindergarteners are helpless."


But that's not what I was arguing. I was saying the SAME weapon and magazines were available during the "ban". People should be offended that the NRA and GOP pulled the fast one they did. Maybe eventually the ban would have made a difference, but because it left legal all existing magazines (including pallets of magazines in manufacturers' warehouses) and didn't ban semi-auto rifles capable of accepting mags, just the size the new ones could have, the AWB was a bad joke.
 
2012-12-16 08:31:29 PM
I'm a lifelong gun owner, and I have ZERO problem with more restrictions and regulation. That's because I'm not some doomsday militia moron who thinks his p-shooter collection is going to fight-off zombies or a government armed with nukes and SEAL Team 6. I have pepper spray, a revolver that holds 5 rounds, and a shotgun that holds 3. That's all anyone needs for personal defense.

INTELLIGENT gun owners realize that this psycho should have never had access to guns. It hurts all of us. His $#@% mother, who I have zero sympathy for, knew she had a deeply troubled kid with serious, lifelong behavioral issues -- so serious that the schools couldn't handle him anymore and she'd had to home-school him. In her infinite f*cking wisdom, she decided to give her little pyscho target practice and access to a high-powered arsenal. And a bunch of little kids are dead as a direct result, and any @sshole who tries to blame it on people not believing in the "right" religion, or on video games, can seriously suck a bag of d!cks. "Crazy got a gun" is the sole reason this happened.

Regulation is coming. We gun owners can either be a part of the conversation and have a sane approach to it, or we can be totally irrational and have way worse restrictions put on us, via much more poorly-written laws. People are pissed about our insane gun culture, and they farking should be.
 
2012-12-16 08:31:37 PM

propasaurus: I like that the folks who make the argument that 'murder is already illegal, so there's no use in banning guns' are the same people who think we should ban marijuana because someone could get into a car crash while stoned and possibly kill someone.


All the "gun nuts" I know favor various degrees of drug legalization. So there's that.
 
2012-12-16 08:32:01 PM

jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.

I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.

Nobody wants to do anything to your ass - on or off the Internet. Your ass is fat, has pimples, and is unnattractive.


Oh I see what set you off, it was the gay comment. Shouldn't you be off preparing your all Rick Astley Mix tape for your next fabulous gay wedding DJ gig?
 
2012-12-16 08:32:08 PM

Farker Soze: Tellingthem: I've posted this before...but crime has gone down significantly in the last 20 years. Around 50% per capita for homicides and violent crime. Shouldn't we be looking at what caused that and expanding efforts into that direction instead?

That's easy. More abortion. Roe v. Wade had a big effect.

These school shootings are outliers though. We need to fix the crazy to help with that.


I'm still a little dubious about those numbers. I've seen all the freakonomics stuff and I'm still not convinced that abortion alone is the major factor of the decrease in crime. But if crime keep does keep dropping then maybe. Also the school shootings get the county into a tizzy but really if we only care about saving lives there are numerous other things we can spend our energies on. But guns are a nice hot button issue that everyone can get vocal about so here we are.
 
2012-12-16 08:32:29 PM

Pincy: vygramul: Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?

Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.

Damn, that is a great idea. The Dems should introduce legislation next week to expand Obamacare in order to cover mental health more adequately. They can pay for it by taxing gun owners, maybe charging them a registration fee every year or something. Sort of how we charge cigarette smokers by taxing the shiat out of cigarettes.


Not a bad idea at all. It wouldn't accomplish any more than moving the GOP off their bullshiat talking point, but it wouldstill be worth it.
 
2012-12-16 08:32:30 PM

iq_in_binary: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is found or turned in, you pay insurance on it. I like that ...


I never said "repeal" the second amendment. I did argue that the weapons used at it's inception should be the only ones considered or that insurance be purchased to make people financially responsible for the ownership of deadly weapons. I also said to leave the farmers and hunters alone except for magazine size restrictions. But if that means repeal the second amendment to you then you are part of the problem. Not part of the solution.
 
2012-12-16 08:32:38 PM

Pincy: vygramul: Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?

Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.

Damn, that is a great idea. The Dems should introduce legislation next week to expand Obamacare in order to cover mental health more adequately. They can pay for it by taxing gun owners, maybe charging them a registration fee every year or something. Sort of how we charge cigarette smokers by taxing the shiat out of cigarettes.


Unfortunately that would be unconstitutional, kind of like a poll tax would be.

My solution: HERE

Hell, I even suggest the surplus revenue from it go towards the mental health system!
 
2012-12-16 08:32:46 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: toomuchwhargarbl: Pincy: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Oh ya, well my Krav Maga will kick your Muay Thai ass.

Seriously, we are all martial arts experts ex-military trained assassins married to supermodels and living in mansions. So you can just forget the Internet Tough Guy act because nobody believes you.

I'm not the one threatening to kick anyone's ass. That would be you, so here's a mirror, play spot the douche.

Also Lol Krav Maga. You going to come get in the ring, bite me, and grab my balls?


Oh noes! - not twenty minutes of sweaty dick-punching!
 
2012-12-16 08:33:25 PM

jso2897: and when somebody does, it will be the neighborhood junkie who saw your belligerent "Beware of Owner" or "Insured by Smith& Wesson" sign and realized your house would be a good one to burglarize - gun owners are the most profitable targets.


Maybe I'm too smart/stupid to be a burglar, but if I were considering it, I don't think I'd take my chances with the house in which I might get my head blown off for my trouble.
 
2012-12-16 08:33:29 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: Are we really shocked that the Republicans can't stand for any of their phony values?


I think it's less a case of the GOP being spineless and more a question of picking the right venue. look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance. nobody with half a brain willingly walks into an ambush like that. so I don't blame these senators for ditching the invitations. that's just common sense. despicable behavior? well..maybe. But still - avoiding that mess is a sign that the GOP isn't completely brain dead. they're smart enough to finally realize that outside of their echo chamber, there are people that can hurt them.
 
2012-12-16 08:34:13 PM

vygramul:
But that's not what I was arguing. I was saying the SAME weapon and magazines were available during the "ban". People should be offended that the NRA and GOP pulled the fast one they did. Maybe eventually the ban would have made a difference, but because it left legal all existing magazines (including pallets of magazines in manufacturers' warehouses) and didn't ban semi-auto rifles capable of accepting mags, just the size the new ones could have, the AWB was a bad joke.


Oh, well then I agree with all of that. Because it's true.
 
2012-12-16 08:34:32 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: toomuchwhargarbl: Pincy: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Oh ya, well my Krav Maga will kick your Muay Thai ass.

Seriously, we are all martial arts experts ex-military trained assassins married to supermodels and living in mansions. So you can just forget the Internet Tough Guy act because nobody believes you.

I'm not the one threatening to kick anyone's ass. That would be you, so here's a mirror, play spot the douche.

Also Lol Krav Maga. You going to come get in the ring, bite me, and grab my balls?


FARK is not your personal erotica site.
 
2012-12-16 08:35:27 PM

chumboobler: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is found or turned in, you pay insurance on i ...


Did you or did you not look at the proposal I suggested? NFA works pretty damn well, to the tune of none of the scary fully automatic machine guns in the pool it governs, including fully auto versions of the rifle used in the massacre, having been used in crimes. Why argue with success?
 
2012-12-16 08:37:26 PM

shower_in_my_socks: I'm a lifelong gun owner, and I have ZERO problem with more restrictions and regulation. That's because I'm not some doomsday militia moron who thinks his p-shooter collection is going to fight-off zombies or a government armed with nukes and SEAL Team 6. I have pepper spray, a revolver that holds 5 rounds, and a shotgun that holds 3. That's all anyone needs for personal defense.

INTELLIGENT gun owners realize that this psycho should have never had access to guns. It hurts all of us. His $#@% mother, who I have zero sympathy for, knew she had a deeply troubled kid with serious, lifelong behavioral issues -- so serious that the schools couldn't handle him anymore and she'd had to home-school him. In her infinite f*cking wisdom, she decided to give her little pyscho target practice and access to a high-powered arsenal. And a bunch of little kids are dead as a direct result, and any @sshole who tries to blame it on people not believing in the "right" religion, or on video games, can seriously suck a bag of d!cks. "Crazy got a gun" is the sole reason this happened.

Regulation is coming. We gun owners can either be a part of the conversation and have a sane approach to it, or we can be totally irrational and have way worse restrictions put on us, via much more poorly-written laws. People are pissed about our insane gun culture, and they farking should be.


Thank you. I've owned guns in the past. I don't want to abolish the second amendment. But you are correct, if the NRA doesn't start bring some reasonable compromises to the table they will eventually be left out of the discussion completely.
 
2012-12-16 08:37:28 PM

Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance


Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.
 
2012-12-16 08:38:41 PM

propasaurus:
FARK is not your personal erotica site.


Sorry about the misunderstanding, for those who don't know, "Krav Maga" is Hebrew for "biting and gouging at balls, eyes, and throat."
 
2012-12-16 08:39:02 PM

iq_in_binary: Pincy: vygramul: Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?

Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.

Damn, that is a great idea. The Dems should introduce legislation next week to expand Obamacare in order to cover mental health more adequately. They can pay for it by taxing gun owners, maybe charging them a registration fee every year or something. Sort of how we charge cigarette smokers by taxing the shiat out of cigarettes.

Unfortunately that would be unconstitutional, kind of like a poll tax would be.

My solution: HERE

Hell, I even suggest the surplus revenue from it go towards the mental health system!


Dude, you've posted a link to your solution in this thread many times. You shouldn't be posting it here. You should be sending it to your representatives and the NRA.
 
2012-12-16 08:39:25 PM

randomjsa: "In the wake of a tragedy, we invited 31 people who understand the 2nd Amendment on to badger them anti 2nd Amendment talking points because we're cheap like that. Now we're pouting because they're not that stupid."


So their support of the 2nd Amendment isn't 24/7? Interesting.
 
2012-12-16 08:40:48 PM

GoldSpider: jso2897: and when somebody does, it will be the neighborhood junkie who saw your belligerent "Beware of Owner" or "Insured by Smith& Wesson" sign and realized your house would be a good one to burglarize - gun owners are the most profitable targets.

Maybe I'm too smart/stupid to be a burglar, but if I were considering it, I don't think I'd take my chances with the house in which I might get my head blown off for my trouble.


Yeah - but it doesn't work that way. Guns are the most valuable commodity on the street. You boost a diamond bracelet, you get 1/5 th of retail. if you are lucky. A gun? Twice, three times retail.
Criminals tend to look a reward, and ignore risk. They also endeavor to strike when the advantage is theirs - and most residential burglaries are successful, and do not result in an arrest.
The belief that the thought of a weapon in the hands of some soft bourgie deters criminials is a symptom of reading too many comic books.
 
2012-12-16 08:41:07 PM

GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.


no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.
 
2012-12-16 08:41:43 PM

Pincy: iq_in_binary: Pincy: vygramul: Weaver95: it's really odd to see people who I *know* hate/despise Obamacare suddenly switch around and start talking about 'improving the mental health care system'...but only when it looks like their guns might be threatened.

this is one of the MANY things that needed to be addressed with health care reform. But the GOP fought tooth and claw to prevent it from happening. In fact, they're still fighting against it. the Republican view is that helping sick people (yes, even the mentally ill) is socialism. so which is it guys? are you now in favor of Obamacare? Or do you still want to see it repealed?

Actually, since they're pushing it so much, we should take them up on it while they're "for" it.

Damn, that is a great idea. The Dems should introduce legislation next week to expand Obamacare in order to cover mental health more adequately. They can pay for it by taxing gun owners, maybe charging them a registration fee every year or something. Sort of how we charge cigarette smokers by taxing the shiat out of cigarettes.

Unfortunately that would be unconstitutional, kind of like a poll tax would be.

My solution: HERE

Hell, I even suggest the surplus revenue from it go towards the mental health system!

Dude, you've posted a link to your solution in this thread many times. You shouldn't be posting it here. You should be sending it to your representatives and the NRA.


Fark the NRA up the ass. They lost my respect a long time ago. And it's already been retooled once, I'd like to go through a few ideas to have something more comprehensive that more people would support. Some people helped by contributing.

You want to help or just keep biatching about it?
 
2012-12-16 08:42:11 PM

iq_in_binary: chumboobler: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is found or turned in, you pay i ...


I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!
 
2012-12-16 08:43:27 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.

I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.

Nobody wants to do anything to your ass - on or off the Internet. Your ass is fat, has pimples, and is unnattractive.

Oh I see what set you off, it was the gay comment. Shouldn't you be off preparing your all Rick Astley Mix tape for your next fabulous gay wedding DJ gig?


Damn - you're like a programmable AI.
 
2012-12-16 08:43:37 PM

GoldSpider: jso2897: and when somebody does, it will be the neighborhood junkie who saw your belligerent "Beware of Owner" or "Insured by Smith& Wesson" sign and realized your house would be a good one to burglarize - gun owners are the most profitable targets.

Maybe I'm too smart/stupid to be a burglar, but if I were considering it, I don't think I'd take my chances with the house in which I might get my head blown off for my trouble.


Most burglars don't like to run into people. They rob you when you are not home. Your gun isn't going to do a lot of good then. Your much better off having a dog that will bark.
 
2012-12-16 08:43:53 PM

Weaver95: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.


I don't want to wait for that to happen. I'm looking forward to the GOP's eventual implosion, but in the mean time I'd like to see shiat get done, did you take a look at my proposal? You actually have something to contribute.
 
2012-12-16 08:44:13 PM

chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!


that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.
 
2012-12-16 08:45:29 PM

Weaver95: coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.

the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?


As usual, Weaver, you sum up my verbose and rambling thoughts into a single small and to the point post.
 
2012-12-16 08:45:40 PM

jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.

I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.

Nobody wants to do anything to your ass - on or off the Internet. Your ass is fat, has pimples, and is unnattractive.

Oh I see what set you off, it was the gay comment. Shouldn't you be off preparing your all Rick Astley Mix tape for your next fabulous gay wedding DJ gig?

Damn - you're like a programmable AI.


Yeah got me, I'm really an AI... those things always seem to figure out the stuff you like if you keep talking to them. Like penis. You like penis, a lot.
 
2012-12-16 08:48:03 PM

chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!


It probably doesn't make much of a difference to a dead hit and run or shooting victim that the car he was run over with wasn't designed to kill people but the gun he was shot with was. I doubt I'd be too outraged over the semantics if I was lying in the morgue.
 
2012-12-16 08:49:11 PM

GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.


Yeah. We know. They're pussies.
 
2012-12-16 08:49:16 PM

iq_in_binary: Fark the NRA up the ass. They lost my respect a long time ago. And it's already been retooled once, I'd like to go through a few ideas to have something more comprehensive that more people would support. Some people helped by contributing.


I'd love to see the NRA expel the nuts, or maybe the ACLU take up the mantle and become the rational voice for the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-16 08:49:38 PM

chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.


The United States Supreme Court, the court that decides issues of constitutionality, disagrees with you. See District of Columbia v Heller which protects the individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes in federal enclaves and McDonald v City of Chicago which, through the 14th Amendment, extends the right of the individual to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes to the states as well.
 
2012-12-16 08:50:06 PM

iq_in_binary: Weaver95: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.

I don't want to wait for that to happen. I'm looking forward to the GOP's eventual implosion, but in the mean time I'd like to see shiat get done, did you take a look at my proposal? You actually have something to contribute.


I did look it over, and it certainly looks reasonable. i'm just not convinced the GOP is desperate enough to accept a reasonable solution.
 
2012-12-16 08:50:30 PM

skullkrusher: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.


How many tyrants have you overthrown? How many innocent people have died because of guns, be it improper storage or straight up violence like this week? 0 tyrants and thousands of deaths related to easy gun access. Have a muzzle loading musket and your second amendment prize as it was intended then.
 
2012-12-16 08:50:51 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897: toomuchwhargarbl: jso2897:
I'll bet he could kick your ass in a stand up fight.

If he wants to try my gym has waivers behind the counter. I'm there for the Muay Thai classes and open sparring is on fridays.

Hahahahaha................gawd, I love Fark.

I always say this to people who threaten to kick my ass on the internet, and not one has showed up yet. Funny how that works.

Nobody wants to do anything to your ass - on or off the Internet. Your ass is fat, has pimples, and is unnattractive.

Oh I see what set you off, it was the gay comment. Shouldn't you be off preparing your all Rick Astley Mix tape for your next fabulous gay wedding DJ gig?

Damn - you're like a programmable AI.

Yeah got me, I'm really an AI... those things always seem to figure out the stuff you like if you keep talking to them. Like penis. You like penis, a lot.


Should one actively dislike penises? It seems pointless, since 50% of the human race have them - myself included. I'm missing the point - why the penis thing?
 
2012-12-16 08:51:06 PM

Farker Soze: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

It probably doesn't make much of a difference to a dead hit and run or shooting victim that the car he was run over with wasn't designed to kill people but the gun he was shot with was. I doubt I'd be too outraged over the semantics if I was lying in the morgue.


I'm sure my ghost would be more concerned by the grouping..."Seriously 10 shots and he only hit me twice? lucky bastard, he needs to spend more time at the range..."
 
2012-12-16 08:51:58 PM

chumboobler: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is found or turned ...


I carry a pistol for self defense. Kind of came with the job, though, it's not like I carry because I think I'm going to stop the next spree shooter. Killing people is perfectly legal in self defense, and for a lot of people a very real possibility. Battered wives, girlfriends, people in the LGBT community in places like Alabama, I worked with many people for whom somebody wanted them harmed and the realities of the justice system leave them very little protection.

Pistols would fall under the legislation I proposed, if that's what you're asking. But if you think banning handguns is going to be practical, I have some bad news for you. There is absolutely no way to make it happen that would not put a lot of people in danger, unless you're willing to search every home and apartment, dig up every inch of earth and take x-ray machines to every inch of concrete. There's simply no way to do it that doesn't leave a lot of handguns in the hands of criminals and law abiding citizens without them to defend themselves.

My proposal though would do a lot to get the handguns criminals are using off the streets. The way the NFA works is that all firearms it governs are destroyed if they don't have a tax stamp. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Does that assuage some of the issues you have?
 
2012-12-16 08:52:30 PM

Tellingthem: Farker Soze: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

It probably doesn't make much of a difference to a dead hit and run or shooting victim that the car he was run over with wasn't designed to kill people but the gun he was shot with was. I doubt I'd be too outraged over the semantics if I was lying in the morgue.

I'm sure my ghost would be more concerned by the grouping..."Seriously 10 shots and he only hit me twice? lucky bastard, he needs to spend more time at the range..."


Maybe he wasn't using the version with ergonomic grips?
 
2012-12-16 08:53:30 PM
Since i keep using this, i may have to update it.


Someone asked how i would ban guns, the answer is, "through the market."

1. Property taxes on guns yearly, proceeds go to victims and proactive mental health programs.
So a percent of value? How much?

2. Buyback programs that give close to, or just under market value. Military grade weapons can be used to arm our military, antiques to museums, or whatever other feasible safe non-use.
thats fine

3. 2x-5x increases in punishments for all gun related crime. Basically using a gun in any crime doubles the penalty automatically.
mandatory sentences rarely work to decrease crime. Look up three strikes or other drug crime laws to see how poorly most of those work

4. In any place it doesnt exist, registration, just like cars with titles. The owner of the title is legally responsible for the weapon. (this is already in place i believe)
Many do states do have laws about being responsible with firearms, Approved safes, trigger locks, etc. I'm not a big fan of mandatory registration for all firearms...but it's not a deal breaker either

5. Required mental health screenings for a license to own a gun, that need to be renewed yearly, or periodically, akin to updating registration / drivers license.
Possibly...depends on how it is organized and operated.

6. 100% government tax on all new guns, across the board.
meh...you would just decrease sales of expensive guns. More people would just purchase cheaper guns.

With these solutions you will dramatically lower the number of guns in the general populace and change the entire gun culture within the US in less than a generation.
 
2012-12-16 08:53:41 PM

Tellingthem: I'm sure my ghost would be more concerned by the grouping..."Seriously 10 shots and he only hit me twice? lucky bastard, he needs to spend more time at the range..."


I read that as groping. Yeah, my ghost would be more concerned with that in fact.
 
2012-12-16 08:54:09 PM

iq_in_binary: I carry a pistol for self defense. Kind of came with the job, though, it's not like I carry because I think I'm going to stop the next spree shooter. Killing people is perfectly legal in self defense, and for a lot of people a very real possibility. Battered wives, girlfriends, people in the LGBT community in places like Alabama, I worked with many people for whom somebody wanted them harmed and the realities of the justice system leave them very little protection.


OK, I know you mean well, but I'm not sure you know that much about domestic violence. I guarantee you that women are at a much greater risk of dying if there is a gun in the house. It will most likely used against her, not for her.
 
2012-12-16 08:55:58 PM

Weaver95: iq_in_binary: Weaver95: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.

I don't want to wait for that to happen. I'm looking forward to the GOP's eventual implosion, but in the mean time I'd like to see shiat get done, did you take a look at my proposal? You actually have something to contribute.

I did look it over, and it certainly looks reasonable. i'm just not convinced the GOP is desperate enough to accept a reasonable solution.


They're really not going to have a choice. They've got to stare down the barrel of 20 dead children. This WILL cost them the House if they don't agree to something, and Obama knows full well how to bend them over.
 
2012-12-16 08:56:39 PM
i figure we'll solve the gun issue right about the time we start the Laser Death Ray issue.
 
2012-12-16 08:57:44 PM

Weaver95: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.


They will probably choose... Time.

Fact is that the more distant this tragedy becomes, the less emotional sting it has. In three months the idea of using gun control to deal with outlier incidents will be about as laughable as the idea of using the TSA to fight terrorism.

The people who want to stand on this soap box intend to do it sooner rather than later. Failing that, they'll use it to score cheap points.

If the politicians ever intend to have the real conversation about mental health that we need, it will happen well out of earshot of the public. Because it involves both the republicans backing down on health care and the democrats accepting that gun control isn't a solution.

The only debate that happens else wise is just a meeting held to try and legitimize one sides forgone conclusion... And the other side will avoid it, as they probably should.
 
2012-12-16 08:57:45 PM

chumboobler: skullkrusher: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.

How many tyrants have you overthrown? How many innocent people have died because of guns, be it improper storage or straight up violence like this week? 0 tyrants and thousands of deaths related to easy gun access. Have a muzzle loading musket and your second amendment prize as it was intended then.


I don't recall the 2nd Amendment containing any mention of "Musket."
 
2012-12-16 08:59:11 PM

justtray: Since i keep using this, i may have to update it.


Someone asked how i would ban guns, the answer is, "through the market."

1. Property taxes on guns yearly, proceeds go to victims and proactive mental health programs.
So a percent of value? How much?

2. Buyback programs that give close to, or just under market value. Military grade weapons can be used to arm our military, antiques to museums, or whatever other feasible safe non-use.
thats fine

3. 2x-5x increases in punishments for all gun related crime. Basically using a gun in any crime doubles the penalty automatically.
mandatory sentences rarely work to decrease crime. Look up three strikes or other drug crime laws to see how poorly most of those work

4. In any place it doesnt exist, registration, just like cars with titles. The owner of the title is legally responsible for the weapon. (this is already in place i believe)
Many do states do have laws about being responsible with firearms, Approved safes, trigger locks, etc. I'm not a big fan of mandatory registration for all firearms...but it's not a deal breaker either

5. Required mental health screenings for a license to own a gun, that need to be renewed yearly, or periodically, akin to updating registration / drivers license.
Possibly...depends on how it is organized and operated.

6. 100% government tax on all new guns, across the board.
meh...you would just decrease sales of expensive guns. More people would just purchase cheaper guns.

With these solutions you will dramatically lower the number of guns in the general populace and change the entire gun culture within the US in less than a generation.


Or there's my solution, which taxes, registers, and licenses practically all ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Why wouldn't that work?
 
2012-12-16 08:59:22 PM

GoldSpider: iq_in_binary: Fark the NRA up the ass. They lost my respect a long time ago. And it's already been retooled once, I'd like to go through a few ideas to have something more comprehensive that more people would support. Some people helped by contributing.

I'd love to see the NRA expel the nuts, or maybe the ACLU take up the mantle and become the rational voice for the 2nd Amendment.


You know its bad when the godfolk break ranks and side with the heathen liberals
 
2012-12-16 08:59:25 PM
Well, it's official: Barack Obama is mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore.
 
2012-12-16 09:00:45 PM
Gee, gun nuts turn out to be COWARDS. Surprise,surprise.
 
2012-12-16 09:01:20 PM

iq_in_binary: chumboobler: skullkrusher: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.

How many tyrants have you overthrown? How many innocent people have died because of guns, be it improper storage or straight up violence like this week? 0 tyrants and thousands of deaths related to easy gun access. Have a muzzle loading musket and your second amendment prize as it was intended then.

I don't recall the 2nd Amendment containing any mention of "Musket."


But it does mention "well regulated," and "as part of a militia," which you have no problem ignoring, so why is taking a logical interpretation a problem for you, or a literal one?

You can't have both.
 
2012-12-16 09:01:42 PM

dustman81: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

The United States Supreme Court, the court that decides issues of constitutionality, disagrees with you. See District of Columbia v Heller which protects the individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes in federal enclaves and McDonald v City of Chicago which, through the 14th Amendment, extends the right of the individual to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes to the states as well.


I am familiar with the Heller case and you are overlooking some things that were rendered in judgement that can be reviewed. Specifically what constitutes a militia. The court declined to make that definition. This means that while Heller could walk free, the definition of a militia was up for debate. They have not made that debate yet but may now, in light of the events that are coming more and more often. They also said that "reasonable restriction" is on the table. It was hardly the slam dunk victory the NRA claims. It opened the door to further investigation.

" They also noted that though the right to bear arms also helped preserve the citizen militia, "the activities [the Amendment] protects are not limited to militia service, nor is an individual's enjoyment of the right contingent upon his or her continued or intermittent enrollment in the militia." The court determined that handguns are "Arms" and concluded that thus they may not be banned by the District of Columbia; however, they said that Second Amendment rights are subject to reasonable restrictions.

As an aside, what part of you needs to own something that is designed to kill someone? Are you that insecure as a man that you have to know you have the power to kill at your fingertips at all times? It strikes me as weak when people need something like a gun to feel comfortable.
 
2012-12-16 09:01:59 PM

Weaver95: coeyagi:

I will make it very clear, Allen West guy: have your rights, just know that you can have your rights and also be interested in improving society. Most people here who are gun nuts don't want to have the conversation. They are paranoid dicks who care only about themselves and will block rational discussion at all costs.

the conversation seems to go like this:

NRA: I have 2nd amendment rights.
voters: 'yeah, but we're getting tired of people murdering kids and shooting up places of worship. plus, ya know, street crime'.
NRA: I...have SECOND AMENDMENT...rights.
voters: 'yes, we understand that but...we're trying to find a way to make sense of this tragedy. maybe gun control is part of that, maybe not. we're just tired of seeing piles of dead kindergarten children paraded around on the evening news. you're part of this discussion too ya know. any suggestions?
NRA: I have second amendment rights. you can't have them! they're MINE! DISCUSSION OVER!' [slams door]. [runs away screaming]
voters: WTF just happened...?


Along the same vein, I've seen people, on these forums at least, who are gun owners or supporters (or claim to be, at least) who have made reasonable sounding proposals, and they are immediately shouted down by others who brand them as "killers" and are "compensating for something", and then those same people turn in proposals that are, at best, dream-like in nature. In one thread yesterday, one guy posted a blog he agreed with where the writer suggested a) restricting guns to a certain length and painting them day-glo orange and b) taxing the entertainment industry 20% of a production's profits if said production features guns in any way. Think about that one for a second. Does that not seem patently ridiculous to you?

Like I said a few posts before, people are losing their collective shiat over this. What's needed is people with clear heads and decent intelligence who can sit down and determine actual, workable solutions to things like this. Maybe they require a constitutional amendment, maybe they don't. Personally, I think that we're quite a ways from amending/repealing the 2nd Amendment, and there are quite a few steps between now and that point. I think the best avenues towards a solution lie in reforming mental health care and the attitudes toward it, and dealing with the NRA so that they pull their heads out of their ass and actually get back to the job they were created for in the first place. What the actual solution is, I don't know - that's up to people smarter than me. But I think that locking up all the crazy people and/or taking away all the guns aren't it. Those just seem like band-aids that'll make everyone feel better until the next thing happens with the next bad thing on the list that needs to be taken away from us "for our good".
 
2012-12-16 09:02:24 PM

iq_in_binary: Weaver95: iq_in_binary: Weaver95: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.

I don't want to wait for that to happen. I'm looking forward to the GOP's eventual implosion, but in the mean time I'd like to see shiat get done, did you take a look at my proposal? You actually have something to contribute.

I did look it over, and it certainly looks reasonable. i'm just not convinced the GOP is desperate enough to accept a reasonable solution.

They're really not going to have a choice. They've got to stare down the barrel of 20 dead children. This WILL cost them the House if they don't agree to something, and Obama knows full well how to bend them over.


Really? This gets propped up after any major new worthy event. The people get all riled up and the politicians make some speeches...at best I figure they may reenact the old ban. Mostly just window dressing on the issue. Because they know that there isn't much we can do to stop anything. Limit clips to 5-10 rounds. Maybe ban some more select versions...thats about it. As soon as this fades from the realm of the public mind and we find the next thing to get outraged about it will mostly just fade away like it has before.
 
2012-12-16 09:02:34 PM

iq_in_binary: Weaver95: iq_in_binary: Weaver95: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

no, it's a question of choosing your best possible venue. for the GOP, any response to this tragedy is going to have to be carefully coordinated and released in a controlled environment. just jumping out there blind is going to end up with the GOP getting their livers ripped out and their ideology destroyed.

I don't want to wait for that to happen. I'm looking forward to the GOP's eventual implosion, but in the mean time I'd like to see shiat get done, did you take a look at my proposal? You actually have something to contribute.

I did look it over, and it certainly looks reasonable. i'm just not convinced the GOP is desperate enough to accept a reasonable solution.

They're really not going to have a choice. They've got to stare down the barrel of 20 dead children. This WILL cost them the House if they don't agree to something, and Obama knows full well how to bend them over.


Something will happen. No way in hell will it be a reasonable solution though. It will be a political do-nothing bill that won't solve anything but give an out so both sides can say they're doing something. Book it.
 
2012-12-16 09:03:31 PM

Pincy: iq_in_binary: I carry a pistol for self defense. Kind of came with the job, though, it's not like I carry because I think I'm going to stop the next spree shooter. Killing people is perfectly legal in self defense, and for a lot of people a very real possibility. Battered wives, girlfriends, people in the LGBT community in places like Alabama, I worked with many people for whom somebody wanted them harmed and the realities of the justice system leave them very little protection.

OK, I know you mean well, but I'm not sure you know that much about domestic violence. I guarantee you that women are at a much greater risk of dying if there is a gun in the house. It will most likely used against her, not for her.


I'm the guy the divorce lawyer sends in to get the woman out of the house. I was a legal investigator, I was the guy who helped get the restraining orders in order, etc. etc.. Don't try to lecture me about domestic violence because unlike you, I've been brought in to court to testify in front of the soulless chucklefarking tile shark abusive husbands hire to try and punish the women through the family court system. Trust me, I know better about this than you do.
 
2012-12-16 09:04:36 PM

justtray: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: skullkrusher: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.

How many tyrants have you overthrown? How many innocent people have died because of guns, be it improper storage or straight up violence like this week? 0 tyrants and thousands of deaths related to easy gun access. Have a muzzle loading musket and your second amendment prize as it was intended then.

I don't recall the 2nd Amendment containing any mention of "Musket."

But it does mention "well regulated," and "as part of a militia," which you have no problem ignoring, so why is taking a logical interpretation a problem for you, or a literal one?

You can't have both.


Did you even read my proposal?
 
2012-12-16 09:04:40 PM

PlasticMoby: Gee, gun nuts turn out to be COWARDS. Surprise,surprise.


Yeah why don't they come take a verbal beating like they deserve for what a mentally ill person did. Whipping boys should know their place.
 
2012-12-16 09:04:49 PM

iq_in_binary: justtray: Since i keep using this, i may have to update it.


Someone asked how i would ban guns, the answer is, "through the market."

1. Property taxes on guns yearly, proceeds go to victims and proactive mental health programs.
So a percent of value? How much?

2. Buyback programs that give close to, or just under market value. Military grade weapons can be used to arm our military, antiques to museums, or whatever other feasible safe non-use.
thats fine

3. 2x-5x increases in punishments for all gun related crime. Basically using a gun in any crime doubles the penalty automatically.
mandatory sentences rarely work to decrease crime. Look up three strikes or other drug crime laws to see how poorly most of those work

4. In any place it doesnt exist, registration, just like cars with titles. The owner of the title is legally responsible for the weapon. (this is already in place i believe)
Many do states do have laws about being responsible with firearms, Approved safes, trigger locks, etc. I'm not a big fan of mandatory registration for all firearms...but it's not a deal breaker either

5. Required mental health screenings for a license to own a gun, that need to be renewed yearly, or periodically, akin to updating registration / drivers license.
Possibly...depends on how it is organized and operated.

6. 100% government tax on all new guns, across the board.
meh...you would just decrease sales of expensive guns. More people would just purchase cheaper guns.

With these solutions you will dramatically lower the number of guns in the general populace and change the entire gun culture within the US in less than a generation.

Or there's my solution, which taxes, registers, and licenses practically all ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Why wouldn't that work?


I read your proposal. It's not nearly severe enough. $20 stamp? No, that's nothing.

The disincentives should be focused on reducing the number of guns per person, taxing them based on their cost, not limited to specific types (as we're not just trying to lower mass shootings - 75% are done by handguns), nor does your suggestion require frequent and updated registration of the user to ensure they are still mentally worthy of handling them.

Since you asked. But at least we're on the same page with "registration," and I give you that.
 
2012-12-16 09:05:03 PM
BTW, just thought I should chime in that Lanza's father was paying out $240,000 a year in child support for the little shiat, so he would be the big winner in this one.
 
2012-12-16 09:06:07 PM

Mentat: Well, it's official: Barack Obama is mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore.


Hah, good one. Now post the Obama version of the "Many emotions of Kristen Stewart"
 
2012-12-16 09:06:23 PM

iq_in_binary: chumboobler: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

Don't even get me started on the meaning of a "well regulated militia". There are those that claim registering for the draft is just that but that means that all the ladies have to turn in their guns right? Right?

Cling to your guns you effing nutjobs. You have the ghost of George the third coming for revenge and lots of American governments to overthrow. So sick of the violence that I am forced to hear about three times a year because you can't understand that handguns and semiautomatic rifles designed for the military have one purpose and that is to kill people.

Let the hunters hunt with a three round mag. Let the farmers kill things that threaten their livestock with shotguns. End gun legalization there though.

No more death. If the guy had shown up at the school with a knife instead of semi automatic guns there would have been a lot less and possibly zero fatalities.

But criminals will still have guns and then they will rule America and kill my family!!!! Where do criminals get their guns? By stealing them from legal owners. Take away the supply and the gun problem diminishes significantly.

Someone brought up the idea that gun owners should have to buy insurance for their guns. Include random check by insurance companies to ensure they are stored properly. If you fail your inspection, you lose your coverage and therefore your gun. If they are stolen the insurance premium goes up because if it is used in a crime you are responsible. Until that gun is fo ...


It is similar to the insurance I propose. Or really, the insurance idea I stole from someone else in another thread. It adds responsibility to the mix and a cost to ensure you are serious. Inspections of storage facilities prior to issuing the insurance certificate and random checks to ensure compliance.
 
2012-12-16 09:06:27 PM

iq_in_binary: justtray: iq_in_binary: chumboobler: skullkrusher: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.

How many tyrants have you overthrown? How many innocent people have died because of guns, be it improper storage or straight up violence like this week? 0 tyrants and thousands of deaths related to easy gun access. Have a muzzle loading musket and your second amendment prize as it was intended then.

I don't recall the 2nd Amendment containing any mention of "Musket."

But it does mention "well regulated," and "as part of a militia," which you have no problem ignoring, so why is taking a logical interpretation a problem for you, or a literal one?

You can't have both.

Did you even read my proposal?


Yes. See above
 
2012-12-16 09:08:07 PM

Farker Soze:
Something will happen. No way in hell will it be a reasonable solution though. It will be a political do-nothing bill that won't solve anything but give an out so both sides can say they're doing something. Book it.


i'm not so sure. I have NEVER seen the GOP in such a weak position before. Obama isn't stupid, nor does he have any real reason to be merciful to the GOP...I fully expect him to shove the Republicans into a corner and leverage them into a deal on the fiscal cliff AND some kind of gun control legislation. I also suspect Democrats at the state level are going to make it exceptionally difficult for GOP governors to screw over teacher's unions (teachers gave their LIVES and the GOP is trying to make their jobs impossible blah blah).

now you can pretend to be disgusted by that sort of thing if you want...but we all know that the GOP wouldn't hesitate to do the exact same thing if they had a tragedy to exploit for their agenda. hell, they've already done it a couple/few times. so lets not pretend either party has any sort of 'moral high ground' over the other.
 
2012-12-16 09:08:10 PM

GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.


David Gregory is well known for his strong GOP slant. The fact that pro-gun Republicans refused to show up on the program most likely to be sympathetic to them (outside of Fox News) says a lot about their cowardice.
 
2012-12-16 09:08:15 PM

toomuchwhargarbl: PlasticMoby: Gee, gun nuts turn out to be COWARDS. Surprise,surprise.

Yeah why don't they come take a verbal beating like they deserve for what a mentally ill person did. Whipping boys should know their place.


Or was the mentally ill person the mother of the shooter, who was convinced she needed to stockpile guns and amo because of the common economic collapse. Perhaps the NRA people are right. We should round up all these crazy people and that will help solve the problem.
 
2012-12-16 09:08:29 PM
I just want to say that, as a libby lib and an Obama booster, I don't think that radically stricter gun control is the answer. If I have to give an answer in it's place I suggest we start with more listening.

The slew of shootings is probably at least partly due to hysteria over dec 21.
 
2012-12-16 09:08:53 PM

iq_in_binary: Did you even read my proposal?


It's really difficult for your attempt at discussion of reasoned policy changes, however impassioned and persistant, to compete with a good troll who is willing to resort to religious and sexual identity slurs to get attention. Sorry.
 
2012-12-16 09:09:12 PM

iq_in_binary: chumboobler: skullkrusher: chumboobler: I guess my question to you is this...... Can you think of a purpose for handguns in their design and function, other than for killing people? If the main purpose behind the design of a weapon is to kill people, not deer or moose or wolves, then people should not own them. They are designed to kill people, which in any place I can think of, is against the law. If there were many different types of auto driving cars available, but certain ones were designed to kill pedestrians, would you be allowed to own one of those? I mean, some of those pedestrians could be dangerous and out to get you. They could also have cars of their own! I need my pedestrian killing car or they will get me!

that's why you have the right to keep and bear arms. It isn't to kill deer, moose and wolves.

How many tyrants have you overthrown? How many innocent people have died because of guns, be it improper storage or straight up violence like this week? 0 tyrants and thousands of deaths related to easy gun access. Have a muzzle loading musket and your second amendment prize as it was intended then.

I don't recall the 2nd Amendment containing any mention of "Musket."


That's what "arms" were when the 2nd amendment was written. Cannons as well I suppose.
 
2012-12-16 09:09:21 PM

Phony_Soldier: Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.

Exactly, now is not the time for the GOP to debate this. Democrats are trying to lure them into an obvious trap. I can't say I blame either side, but it is kind of shameless.


Only shameless in the sense that the GOP sees it as a trap.
 
2012-12-16 09:10:19 PM

Notabunny: GoldSpider: iq_in_binary: Fark the NRA up the ass. They lost my respect a long time ago. And it's already been retooled once, I'd like to go through a few ideas to have something more comprehensive that more people would support. Some people helped by contributing.

I'd love to see the NRA expel the nuts, or maybe the ACLU take up the mantle and become the rational voice for the 2nd Amendment.

You know its bad when the godfolk break ranks and side with the heathen liberals


Hall is Episcopal. We lean liberal as a whole, breakaways notwithstanding.
 
2012-12-16 09:10:19 PM

richard_1963: GoldSpider: Weaver95: look - they HAVE to know they're going to get raked over the coals for their pro-gun stance

Trying to reason with the torch-and-pitchfork-bearing mob is seldom time well-spent.

David Gregory is well known for his strong GOP slant. The fact that pro-gun Republicans refused to show up on the program most likely to be sympathetic to them (outside of Fox News) says a lot about their cowardice.


nah, I don't think the GOP are being cowards. I think they're being paranoid about going out in public with a pro-gun message. if I were them, I'd keep a low profile right now too.
 
2012-12-16 09:10:29 PM

Snapper Carr: Meanwhile in Indiana

Dammit.


I've always considered myself a pro-gun liberal, but if you farkers are going to keep acting like this, I'm going to have to reconsider my position.


Interesting. Guy has been IDed as biker gang scum.
 
2012-12-16 09:11:09 PM

justtray: iq_in_binary: justtray: Since i keep using this, i may have to update it.


Someone asked how i would ban guns, the answer is, "through the market."

1. Property taxes on guns yearly, proceeds go to victims and proactive mental health programs.
So a percent of value? How much?

2. Buyback programs that give close to, or just under market value. Military grade weapons can be used to arm our military, antiques to museums, or whatever other feasible safe non-use.
thats fine

3. 2x-5x increases in punishments for all gun related crime. Basically using a gun in any crime doubles the penalty automatically.
mandatory sentences rarely work to decrease crime. Look up three strikes or other drug crime laws to see how poorly most of those work

4. In any place it doesnt exist, registration, just like cars with titles. The owner of the title is legally responsible for the weapon. (this is already in place i believe)
Many do states do have laws about being responsible with firearms, Approved safes, trigger locks, etc. I'm not a big fan of mandatory registration for all firearms...but it's not a deal breaker either

5. Required mental health screenings for a license to own a gun, that need to be renewed yearly, or periodically, akin to updating registration / drivers license.
Possibly...depends on how it is organized and operated.

6. 100% government tax on all new guns, across the board.
meh...you would just decrease sales of expensive guns. More people would just purchase cheaper guns.

With these solutions you will dramatically lower the number of guns in the general populace and change the entire gun culture within the US in less than a generation.

Or there's my solution, which taxes, registers, and licenses practically all ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Why wouldn't that work?

I read your proposal. It's not nearly severe enough. $20 stamp? No, that's nothing.

The disincentives should be focused on reducing the number of guns per person, taxing them based on their co ...


Ok so you know absolutely nothing of the NFA then. Half of what you're complaining about is already taken care of by my proposal. Pistols are semi-automatic and thus would be covered. Did you not see the Tax Stamp thing? And NFA firearms are subject to at will inspection.
 
2012-12-16 09:12:01 PM

One Bad Apple: skullkrusher: IlGreven: Of course not. They're too busy hyperventilating over a duck stamp that magically appeared on Election Day.

/It was invisible when the Democrat introduced the act containing it months ago.

duck stamp?

RABBIT STAMP


...in seriousness, just google the Sportsmen's Act. It was NRA-approved, and Republicans were on-board...right up until they didn't have to fight for their office anymore.
 
2012-12-16 09:12:19 PM

Mentat: Phony_Soldier: Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.

Exactly, now is not the time for the GOP to debate this. Democrats are trying to lure them into an obvious trap. I can't say I blame either side, but it is kind of shameless.

Only shameless in the sense that the GOP sees it as a trap.


Isn't it amazing? The focus isn't on the latest tragedy or protecting citizens from the next one. The focus is on not falling for an "obvious trap".
 
2012-12-16 09:12:44 PM

Mentat: Only shameless in the sense that the GOP sees it as a trap.


Any more shameless than those who see this as an opportunity?
 
2012-12-16 09:12:55 PM

Weaver95: i'm not so sure. I have NEVER seen the GOP in such a weak position before. Obama isn't stupid, nor does he have any real reason to be merciful to the GOP...I fully expect him to shove the Republicans into a corner and leverage them into a deal on the fiscal cliff AND some kind of gun control legislation. I also suspect Democrats at the state level are going to make it exceptionally difficult for GOP governors to screw over teacher's unions (teachers gave their LIVES and the GOP is trying to make their jobs impossible blah blah).


I find it morbidly amusing that the GOP spends the entire year demonizing teachers and calling them parasites and now calls them heroes and wants to arm them. Yeah, I'm sure they'll be open to losing their collective bargaining rights once you've allowed them to form well-regulated militias.
 
2012-12-16 09:13:20 PM

iq_in_binary: Pincy: iq_in_binary: I carry a pistol for self defense. Kind of came with the job, though, it's not like I carry because I think I'm going to stop the next spree shooter. Killing people is perfectly legal in self defense, and for a lot of people a very real possibility. Battered wives, girlfriends, people in the LGBT community in places like Alabama, I worked with many people for whom somebody wanted them harmed and the realities of the justice system leave them very little protection.

OK, I know you mean well, but I'm not sure you know that much about domestic violence. I guarantee you that women are at a much greater risk of dying if there is a gun in the house. It will most likely used against her, not for her.

I'm the guy the divorce lawyer sends in to get the woman out of the house. I was a legal investigator, I was the guy who helped get the restraining orders in order, etc. etc.. Don't try to lecture me about domestic violence because unlike you, I've been brought in to court to testify in front of the soulless chucklefarking tile shark abusive husbands hire to try and punish the women through the family court system. Trust me, I know better about this than you do.


No, you necessarily don't. My wife worked for a battered women's shelter non-profit for about five years. She's the one who picked up the mom, who had the shiat beat out of her, and her crying kids and drove them to the shelter. She's the one who had to listen to women on the phone cry about the abuse they were taking but couldn't convince them to leave because they were afraid their husbands/boyfriends were going to kill them. She's the one who had to call the police because the husband/boyfriend would come down to the office threatening to kill them. Trust me pal, the last thing they would ever recommend is that a woman bring a gun into the house.
 
2012-12-16 09:13:41 PM

GardenWeasel: Notabunny: GoldSpider: iq_in_binary: Fark the NRA up the ass. They lost my respect a long time ago. And it's already been retooled once, I'd like to go through a few ideas to have something more comprehensive that more people would support. Some people helped by contributing.

I'd love to see the NRA expel the nuts, or maybe the ACLU take up the mantle and become the rational voice for the 2nd Amendment.

You know its bad when the godfolk break ranks and side with the heathen liberals

Hall is Episcopal. We lean liberal as a whole, breakaways notwithstanding.


Sorry. I painted with an overly broad brush.
 
2012-12-16 09:14:19 PM

justtray: iq_in_binary: justtray: Since i keep using this, i may have to update it.


Someone asked how i would ban guns, the answer is, "through the market."

1. Property taxes on guns yearly, proceeds go to victims and proactive mental health programs.
So a percent of value? How much?

2. Buyback programs that give close to, or just under market value. Military grade weapons can be used to arm our military, antiques to museums, or whatever other feasible safe non-use.
thats fine

3. 2x-5x increases in punishments for all gun related crime. Basically using a gun in any crime doubles the penalty automatically.
mandatory sentences rarely work to decrease crime. Look up three strikes or other drug crime laws to see how poorly most of those work

4. In any place it doesnt exist, registration, just like cars with titles. The owner of the title is legally responsible for the weapon. (this is already in place i believe)
Many do states do have laws about being responsible with firearms, Approved safes, trigger locks, etc. I'm not a big fan of mandatory registration for all firearms...but it's not a deal breaker either

5. Required mental health screenings for a license to own a gun, that need to be renewed yearly, or periodically, akin to updating registration / drivers license.
Possibly...depends on how it is organized and operated.

6. 100% government tax on all new guns, across the board.
meh...you would just decrease sales of expensive guns. More people would just purchase cheaper guns.

With these solutions you will dramatically lower the number of guns in the general populace and change the entire gun culture within the US in less than a generation.

Or there's my solution, which taxes, registers, and licenses practically all ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Why wouldn't that work?

I read your proposal. It's not nearly severe enough. $20 stamp? No, that's nothing.

The disincentives should be focused on reducing the number of guns per person, taxing them based on their co ...


Oh yeah, did you read the NICS part of the proposal? The mental health thing is covered, up to and including confiscation if you're reported.
 
2012-12-16 09:14:41 PM

chumboobler: dustman81: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

The United States Supreme Court, the court that decides issues of constitutionality, disagrees with you. See District of Columbia v Heller which protects the individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes in federal enclaves and McDonald v City of Chicago which, through the 14th Amendment, extends the right of the individual to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes to the states as well.

I am familiar with the Heller case and you are overlooking some things that were rendered in judgement that can be reviewed. Specifically what constitutes a militia. The court declined to make that definition. This means that while Heller could walk free, the definition of a militia was up for debate. They have not made that debate yet but may now, in light of the events that are coming more and more often. They also said that "reasonable restriction" is on the table. It was hardly the slam dunk victory the NRA claims. It opened the door to further investigation.

" They also noted that though the right to bear arms also helped preserve the citizen militia, "the activities [the Amendment] protects are not limited to militia service, nor is an individual's enjoyment of the right contingent upon his or her continued or intermittent enrollment in the militia." The court determined that handguns are "Arms" and concluded that thus they may not be banned by the District of Columbia; however, they said that Second Amendment rights are subject to reasonable restrictions.

As an aside, what ...


So you say the Constitution says people only have the right to own muskets. I point out the Supreme Court says people have to right to own firearms for traditionally lawful purposes. Unable to back up your argument, you procede to attack me. You lose.
 
2012-12-16 09:15:37 PM

Weaver95: Farker Soze:
Something will happen. No way in hell will it be a reasonable solution though. It will be a political do-nothing bill that won't solve anything but give an out so both sides can say they're doing something. Book it.

i'm not so sure. I have NEVER seen the GOP in such a weak position before. Obama isn't stupid, nor does he have any real reason to be merciful to the GOP...I fully expect him to shove the Republicans into a corner and leverage them into a deal on the fiscal cliff AND some kind of gun control legislation. I also suspect Democrats at the state level are going to make it exceptionally difficult for GOP governors to screw over teacher's unions (teachers gave their LIVES and the GOP is trying to make their jobs impossible blah blah).

now you can pretend to be disgusted by that sort of thing if you want...but we all know that the GOP wouldn't hesitate to do the exact same thing if they had a tragedy to exploit for their agenda. hell, they've already done it a couple/few times. so lets not pretend either party has any sort of 'moral high ground' over the other.


He could spend a lot of political capital like he did for the AHA and sure he'd get real results, but I doubt it. Maybe he'll push a 10 round magazine cap through. I better go buy some magpuls.

No, I have no illusions that both sides won't ever let a crisis go to waste.
 
2012-12-16 09:16:57 PM

DoctorCal: iq_in_binary: Did you even read my proposal?

It's really difficult for your attempt at discussion of reasoned policy changes, however impassioned and persistant, to compete with a good troll who is willing to resort to religious and sexual identity slurs to get attention. Sorry.


Please explain. I get that I mentioned women but not in a negative way. Just that they cannot be part of a well regulated militia if you are using the draft as your criteria. I never mentioned religion at all. So, if I am following things, if I disagree with you, I am a troll. Then you get to make stuff up out of nothing and call me a troll.

Got it.
 
2012-12-16 09:18:22 PM

Pincy: iq_in_binary: Pincy: iq_in_binary: I carry a pistol for self defense. Kind of came with the job, though, it's not like I carry because I think I'm going to stop the next spree shooter. Killing people is perfectly legal in self defense, and for a lot of people a very real possibility. Battered wives, girlfriends, people in the LGBT community in places like Alabama, I worked with many people for whom somebody wanted them harmed and the realities of the justice system leave them very little protection.

OK, I know you mean well, but I'm not sure you know that much about domestic violence. I guarantee you that women are at a much greater risk of dying if there is a gun in the house. It will most likely used against her, not for her.

I'm the guy the divorce lawyer sends in to get the woman out of the house. I was a legal investigator, I was the guy who helped get the restraining orders in order, etc. etc.. Don't try to lecture me about domestic violence because unlike you, I've been brought in to court to testify in front of the soulless chucklefarking tile shark abusive husbands hire to try and punish the women through the family court system. Trust me, I know better about this than you do.

No, you necessarily don't. My wife worked for a battered women's shelter non-profit for about five years. She's the one who picked up the mom, who had the shiat beat out of her, and her crying kids and drove them to the shelter. She's the one who had to listen to women on the phone cry about the abuse they were taking but couldn't convince them to leave because they were afraid their husbands/boyfriends were going to kill them. She's the one who had to call the police because the husband/boyfriend would come down to the office threatening to kill them. Trust me pal, the last thing they would ever recommend is that a woman bring a gun into the house.


Not for the women STILL IN abusive relationships, for the ones that got out. You think those assholes like to let it go? They don't.
 
2012-12-16 09:18:30 PM

Mentat: Weaver95: i'm not so sure. I have NEVER seen the GOP in such a weak position before. Obama isn't stupid, nor does he have any real reason to be merciful to the GOP...I fully expect him to shove the Republicans into a corner and leverage them into a deal on the fiscal cliff AND some kind of gun control legislation. I also suspect Democrats at the state level are going to make it exceptionally difficult for GOP governors to screw over teacher's unions (teachers gave their LIVES and the GOP is trying to make their jobs impossible blah blah).

I find it morbidly amusing that the GOP spends the entire year demonizing teachers and calling them parasites and now calls them heroes and wants to arm them. Yeah, I'm sure they'll be open to losing their collective bargaining rights once you've allowed them to form well-regulated militias.


i've noticed that none of my more conservative facebook friends have replied to any of my comments along those lines....
 
2012-12-16 09:20:09 PM
I've never actually gone on FreeRepublic.com but only read what I see on here. I decided to check on it since Obama was speaking at that high school and the comments weren't even amusing or funny. They were downright depressing and scary. What the fark? Upset because they cut away from 49ers vs Bradys to show the speech? Then someone mentioned they were happy that Republican Dallas beat Liberal Steelers?

I...I just can't. I have no words. Never going on that shiat again.
 
2012-12-16 09:22:04 PM

WienerButt: I've never actually gone on FreeRepublic.com but only read what I see on here. I decided to check on it since Obama was speaking at that high school and the comments weren't even amusing or funny. They were downright depressing and scary. What the fark? Upset because they cut away from 49ers vs Bradys to show the speech? Then someone mentioned they were happy that Republican Dallas beat Liberal Steelers?

I...I just can't. I have no words. Never going on that shiat again.


I'm curious as to their response to the Muslim kid singing.

No, wait, I'm not at all curious.
 
2012-12-16 09:22:40 PM

WienerButt:
I...I just can't. I have no words. Never going on that shiat again.


it's somewhere between Bat Country and Chinatown.
 
2012-12-16 09:22:56 PM
I wonder what it feels like to be the kind of person that, when twenty kids get murdered, worries that their hobby wil become a little less convenient.
 
2012-12-16 09:23:25 PM

WienerButt: I...I just can't. I have no words. Never going on that shiat again.


Perhaps...

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-16 09:23:29 PM

dustman81: chumboobler: dustman81: chumboobler: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It says so! Therefore every American citizen that is not a felon should be issued with a muzzle loaded musket, some ball rounds an a pound of black powder. There are the "arms" that were intended in the Constitution. Not fully/semi automatic rifles and handguns with large magazines.

The United States Supreme Court, the court that decides issues of constitutionality, disagrees with you. See District of Columbia v Heller which protects the individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes in federal enclaves and McDonald v City of Chicago which, through the 14th Amendment, extends the right of the individual to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes to the states as well.

I am familiar with the Heller case and you are overlooking some things that were rendered in judgement that can be reviewed. Specifically what constitutes a militia. The court declined to make that definition. This means that while Heller could walk free, the definition of a militia was up for debate. They have not made that debate yet but may now, in light of the events that are coming more and more often. They also said that "reasonable restriction" is on the table. It was hardly the slam dunk victory the NRA claims. It opened the door to further investigation.

" They also noted that though the right to bear arms also helped preserve the citizen militia, "the activities [the Amendment] protects are not limited to militia service, nor is an individual's enjoyment of the right contingent upon his or her continued or intermittent enrollment in the militia." The court determined that handguns are "Arms" and concluded that thus they may not be banned by the District of Columbia; however, they said that Second Amendment rights are subject to reasonable restrictions.

As an ...


Just ignore the reasonable restrictions part and tell me I am dumb. Just ignore that in the complete decision that it says what can be considered "arms" is as the court finds today and not necessarily what subsequent findings would deem acceptable. Just ignore that they asked for a review of the terminology to better make decisions. I am just an idiot. Talking shiat and have no clue. When the second amendment was written there were lasers and death rays and million round a second guns. Nothing ever changes thin a way that can't be predicted.

Got it.
 
2012-12-16 09:24:09 PM

Farker Soze: You're the one wishing people to be killed by their own family members. What kind of monster are you?


I don't grieve much over the deaths of stupid and evil people.
 
2012-12-16 09:24:37 PM

chumboobler: DoctorCal: iq_in_binary: Did you even read my proposal?

It's really difficult for your attempt at discussion of reasoned policy changes, however impassioned and persistant, to compete with a good troll who is willing to resort to religious and sexual identity slurs to get attention. Sorry.

Please explain. I get that I mentioned women but not in a negative way. Just that they cannot be part of a well regulated militia if you are using the draft as your criteria. I never mentioned religion at all. So, if I am following things, if I disagree with you, I am a troll. Then you get to make stuff up out of nothing and call me a troll.

Got it.


I wasn't referring to you.
 
2012-12-16 09:24:46 PM

WienerButt: I've never actually gone on FreeRepublic.com but only read what I see on here. I decided to check on it since Obama was speaking at that high school and the comments weren't even amusing or funny. They were downright depressing and scary. What the fark? Upset because they cut away from 49ers vs Bradys to show the speech? Then someone mentioned they were happy that Republican Dallas beat Liberal Steelers?

I...I just can't. I have no words. Never going on that shiat again.


They're addicted to hate and anger. It doesn't matter the politics, it's the endorphin rush they get out of it. Being a racist sexist rightwingnut just gives them more targets to be butthurt over.
 
2012-12-16 09:25:44 PM

James F. Campbell: Farker Soze: You're the one wishing people to be killed by their own family members. What kind of monster are you?

I don't grieve much over the deaths of stupid and evil people.


See, like James here. Addicted to hate and anger, and he's supposedly liberal. It's just a mental ilness.
 
2012-12-16 09:26:10 PM

James F. Campbell: I hate people who disagree with me.


I'd be OK with the government denying your right to bear arms.
 
2012-12-16 09:26:11 PM

Farker Soze: See, like James here. Addicted to hate and anger, and he's supposedly liberal. It's just a mental ilness.


Maybe more guns will solve your problem, Farker Soze.
 
2012-12-16 09:27:43 PM

Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.


You are wrong, and please go f*ck yourself.
 
2012-12-16 09:28:54 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"


We also have driver's Ed classes in high schools so teenagers are familiar with how cars work, how to use them safely, and how to respect the risks involved in owning / operating one.

If you want to require training before someone can purchase a firearm, put it in the grade school curriculum so everyone's gone through it before they turn 18.
 
2012-12-16 09:29:55 PM

GoldSpider: James F. Campbell: I hate people who disagree with me.

I'd be OK with the government denying your right to bear arms.


All rights are conditional. Let's quit deifying gun rights just because it's a right that coward-ass white boys like.
 
2012-12-16 09:30:45 PM

UConnOIFVeteran: BTW, just thought I should chime in that Lanza's father was paying out $240,000 a year in child support for the little shiat, so he would be the big winner in this one.


Considering the actions of his son he might be envying his ex right about now.
 
2012-12-16 09:30:52 PM

WienerButt: I've never actually gone on FreeRepublic.com but only read what I see on here. I decided to check on it since Obama was speaking at that high school and the comments weren't even amusing or funny. They were downright depressing and scary. What the fark? Upset because they cut away from 49ers vs Bradys to show the speech? Then someone mentioned they were happy that Republican Dallas beat Liberal Steelers?

I...I just can't. I have no words. Never going on that shiat again.


This is the state of the voting public my friend. Never mind that most of us were tearful if we were watching the presidents address to the people involved in this epic tragedy, there were libruls' to beat on. It is a sad state of affairs when we can't as a human population look past political differences to make things better. The hate is deeply entrenched and it comes from both sides. The symbol of real freedom for the world is now dying before our very eyes. Lady liberty has put down her torch for the people and now burns the fire of partisan hate. I guess all good things do come to an end.
 
2012-12-16 09:31:18 PM

chumboobler: dustman81: chumboo