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(Huffington Post)   "We reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the new Congress to invite them on the program to share their views on the subject this morning," ... "We had no takers"   ( huffingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Sad, congresses, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Louie Gohmert, assault weapons, Michael Bloomberg, senate democrats, Mayor of New York City, Fox News Sunday  
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4969 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Dec 2012 at 5:17 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-16 01:07:27 PM  
One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.
 
2012-12-16 01:10:26 PM  
You mean the same group who shiat all over Bob Dole last week, but didn't have the balls to cast their votes out loud and then refused to discuss it? Astonishing!
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 01:14:21 PM  
Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?
 
2012-12-16 01:16:35 PM  
Obvious tag has no comment
 
2012-12-16 01:18:03 PM  
What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!
 
2012-12-16 01:19:43 PM  
We really need a pathetic tag.
 
2012-12-16 01:20:08 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


Tards have some awareness of their surroundings.
 
2012-12-16 01:21:54 PM  

jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?


Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves
 
2012-12-16 01:31:57 PM  

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant
 
2012-12-16 01:34:11 PM  
A kindergarten teacher with an M4 would have prevented all of this.
 
2012-12-16 01:39:13 PM  
Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.
 
2012-12-16 01:40:01 PM  

Azlefty: jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?

Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves


She wants HER gun 24/7, but she doesn't believe that us peasants deserve the same right.
 
2012-12-16 01:40:26 PM  

Sgt Otter: ...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant


i47.tinypic.comView Full Size


"Forget it, he's rolling."

 
2012-12-16 01:40:41 PM  

jbc: cowards


Or thugs.
 
2012-12-16 01:48:10 PM  

This About That: Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.


To be fair, I've noticed that phrase used more and more lately. I think it's more a stylistic thing than a partisan one. It is a bit jarring, though.
 
2012-12-16 01:54:13 PM  

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws. With 300 million of them already out there, it's just a little late. It's like trying to make possession of a used buttplug illegal; nobody really cares, and with one cop per 11,000 citizens, who the f**k, exactly, is going to even manage the inventory of confiscated guns? The cast of Storage Wars?

Gohmert knows this, too, and really, couldn't he take a single f**king day off his teacher-bashing crusade? Just one lousy day?
 
2012-12-16 02:01:07 PM  
May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.
 
2012-12-16 02:03:20 PM  

coco ebert: I think it's more a stylistic thing


Maybe, but it looks like widespread cynicism to me.
 
2012-12-16 02:12:43 PM  

teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.


I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.
 
2012-12-16 02:13:44 PM  

MisterTweak: I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws


Democrats remember what happened to them after they passed the assault weapons ban. They took a heavy beating. As long as the Republicans control the House, they know they can propose a new Assault Weapons Ban, but that it will never have enough votes to pass. So, I'm assuming that is what they will try. Hell, the Republicans might even find a way to let it pass by voting present or something and allow the Democrats to lose all the purple areas. They could play it like: "This is what the Democrat Party gave you America. They took your guns. Do you trust them to protect your children?"

I'm sure that it will be highly political and not at all focused on how to reduce these kinds of horrific events.
 
2012-12-16 02:20:37 PM  

vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.


You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.
 
2012-12-16 02:25:02 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.


The guy next to me firing the 240B tried to take out a 747 and wound up popping off a few rounds hear my face and setting the grass on fire in front of us with a tracer.

Yeah, I would not recommend that.
 
2012-12-16 02:27:35 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.


Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.
 
2012-12-16 02:28:30 PM  

NewportBarGuy: MisterTweak: I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws

Democrats remember what happened to them after they passed the assault weapons ban. They took a heavy beating. As long as the Republicans control the House, they know they can propose a new Assault Weapons Ban, but that it will never have enough votes to pass. So, I'm assuming that is what they will try. Hell, the Republicans might even find a way to let it pass by voting present or something and allow the Democrats to lose all the purple areas. They could play it like: "This is what the Democrat Party gave you America. They took your guns. Do you trust them to protect your children?"

I'm sure that it will be highly political and not at all focused on how to reduce these kinds of horrific events.


I kinda hate it that you're absolutely correct. 535 elected representatives, every single one of them with the ethics of a three-card monte dealer.
 
2012-12-16 02:47:07 PM  
Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...
 
2012-12-16 02:55:57 PM  

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


Not to mention defending the indefensible.
 
2012-12-16 02:59:19 PM  

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


Only a pussy backs down from such a fear. If they hold strong to their convictions, and have a convincing argument, they should be prepared to debate their side on any given Sunday.

Let me guess... mourning period, right? Don't want to bring up the victims whilst their bodies are still fresh and bloody. Wait until they are buried and forgotten. Then we can have a fruitless screaming match that will accomplish nothing.

They're still a gigantic pack of pussies.
 
2012-12-16 03:09:39 PM  

This About That: Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.


For all intensive purposes those mean the same thing. Your being pendantic.
 
2012-12-16 03:11:10 PM  
I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.
 
2012-12-16 03:27:23 PM  

One Bad Apple: Your being pendantic.


It's "you're".
 
2012-12-16 03:36:42 PM  

One Bad Apple: This About That: Isn't "Met The Press" supposed to be a reasoned, fair, non-biased news program? Do you actually believe your audience is unable to detected the cynicism in the phrase "we reached out". Just say "we invited" and stop it with the cleverness.

For all intensive purposes those mean the same thing. Your being pendantic.


I think I see what you did there.
 
2012-12-16 03:40:38 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


The "obvious trap" being "defending their positions in a public forum"?

Dear god, the horroorrrrrr
 
2012-12-16 03:45:21 PM  
Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.
 
2012-12-16 03:54:27 PM  

BravadoGT: None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?


U.S. Senators get paid to research, defend and legislate controversial policy positions. They are salaried and they are often called upon to be on the Sunday political talk shows. They better goddamn show up of asked on any given Sunday, pussyass weaklings. Its the people who don't show up to defend themselves who will take every opportunity to grandstand by talking bravado and wrapping themselves in the flag. I know any number of authentic actual true believing citizens on that ideological side who would happily show up to take on Feinstein and Bloomberg any day. They are the ones that ought to be the most angry at this obvious cowardice.
 
2012-12-16 03:54:45 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


The GOP and NRA have never been afraid to engage in a gun control debate because until now, they've always held the high ground. The fact that they are sitting this round out is very telling.
 
2012-12-16 03:56:49 PM  

One Bad Apple: Your being pendantic.


i52.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-16 04:00:00 PM  

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


No.
 
2012-12-16 04:01:33 PM  

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.
 
2012-12-16 04:02:31 PM  
They're still waiting on the talking points from the NRA.

Apparently, this requires something more than the usual retarded derp from those assholes.
 
2012-12-16 04:06:40 PM  
Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.
 
2012-12-16 04:06:56 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: They're still waiting on the talking points from the NRA.

Apparently, this requires something more than the usual retarded derp from those assholes.


They're still trying to feel things out. Huckabee's "If we had God in school this wouldn't have happened" didn't work, and no sane parent wants armed teachers watching over their kindergartners.
 
2012-12-16 04:08:11 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


Yeah, it really sucks when people who don't own guns tell people who do own guns not to shoot a bunch of kindergartners.
 
2012-12-16 04:10:53 PM  
"We reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the new Congress to invite them on the program to share their views on the subject this morning," he said. "We had no takers."

can you blame them? if they step up and push a pro-gun agenda right now they'd get slaughtered. these guys aren't stupid...they know when/where and how to pick their venues. in terms of practical strategy, standing up in front of a crowd and pushing a pro gun agenda is only going to hurt their cause and they know it.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're going to be real quiet for a while. they might offer some meaningless concessions, pretend apologies and/or do some sort of emotional gesture or whatnot. they could even go as far as to eventually offer some kind of toothless legislation meant to 'address the concerns' of various voter groups. But that's about as far as it'll go.
 
2012-12-16 04:12:02 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


lol
 
2012-12-16 04:13:26 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


so you now want to contend that the GOP is driven by cold, remorseless/soulless logic and that a complete lack of empathy is a GOP virtue?
 
2012-12-16 04:14:52 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


The nerve of some people! Expressing opinions while unarmed!
 
2012-12-16 04:20:07 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?
 
2012-12-16 04:35:05 PM  
I don't see why they wouldn't go on.

I've seen nothing but well-tempered and reasonable debate on the subject this week.
 
2012-12-16 04:44:01 PM  

NewportBarGuy: They're still a gigantic pack of pussies.


Nearly all neocons are pussies when the rubber meets the road. Remember the immutable rule of life - the louder the guy is, the bigger the sissy he is when it's time back up his BS.

I'm not really speaking about this specific incident (there could have been logistical reasons why no one showed up, for all I know). But in general, a Republican will do his finest John Wayne impersonation and in the next breath cry that he's persecuted by some poorly-defined dark forces aligned against him. As you know, a Republican is typically incapable of actually owning his mistakes like the rest of us do.

But yeah, I would like to see dicks like Gohmert demonstrate how an armed and terrified elementary school teacher would have prevented or at least mitigated the tragedy. Go ahead, big man, demonstrate how badass everyone in the world could be if they were only more in line with your cheap rhetoric. When you're done, don't forget to call a mean ole' lib for picking on you. Pussy.

/why yes, yes I am angry today
 
2012-12-16 04:46:15 PM  

vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.


Actually, it costs $200 once, not annually. That being said, you can only own the ones that are legal for civilians to own under any circumstances, which rules out any full-auto gun manufactured after May 19, 1986.
 
2012-12-16 04:48:58 PM  

dickfreckle: As you know, a Republican is typically incapable of actually owning his mistakes like the rest of us do.


The Party Of Personally, Responsibly Blaming Minorities and/or A Secret Cabal For All Of Their Failings.

Truly, they are an impressively pathetic bunch of weenies.
 
2012-12-16 05:02:00 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap?


I would love to hear some serious proposals from them on how to deal with this stuff. Or the deficit. Or the national debt. Or the debt ceiling. At least the NFL, NBA,and PGA are still non-profit organizations exempt from taxes. Yay Senate. 

If we don't fix this problem, eventually they WILL take our guns away.
 
2012-12-16 05:17:00 PM  
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants defenseless children.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2012-12-16 05:20:11 PM  
I'm an idealist, I guess. I think the country should be safe enough that a kindergarten teacher and a principal can be educational experts and leave the weapons expertise to someone else.

I must be completely and totally naive.
 
2012-12-16 05:24:13 PM  

vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.



That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2012-12-16 05:24:26 PM  

Elvis_Bogart: What? They didn't volunteer to step into an obvious trap? The bastards!


I these corporate sycophants they owed the country and the world some sort of explanation of how the events on Friday don't invalidate their total devotion to the gun lobby dollar.

It's the Republicans that are continuously pushing "personal responsibility" remember. Maybe they should finally take their own medicine and take some personal responsibility for the corruption that is preventing our laws (and not just gun laws) from being sane and in the common interest of the PEOPLE of the US, not just the gun corporations.
 
2012-12-16 05:24:50 PM  

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


2nd Amendment: Sacred.

1st Amendment: Profane.
 
2012-12-16 05:25:16 PM  
Cut them some slack, everyone knows it is way too soon to be discussing this sort of thing.
 
2012-12-16 05:26:17 PM  

d23: I'm an idealist, I guess. I think the country should be safe enough that a kindergarten teacher and a principal can be educational experts and leave the weapons expertise to someone else.

I must be completely and totally naive.


Nope, everyone in this country must be expert marksmen and carry a firearm wherever you go. If you aren't then you are not a true American.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2012-12-16 05:27:44 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.


What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.
 
2012-12-16 05:28:28 PM  

Pincy: Cut them some slack, everyone knows it is way too soon to be discussing this sort of thing.


Yup.
 
2012-12-16 05:29:46 PM  
Trying to pit logic and rational thought against emotion never works....it would have been a trap with a bunch of guilt thrown in by the gun control crownd using the bodies of children like Bush and Giuliani used the bodys of the september 11th victims.
 
2012-12-16 05:30:19 PM  
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


I wish to god Louie Gohmert's mother had swallowed nine months before his birth.
 
2012-12-16 05:32:28 PM  

Pincy: Cut them some slack, everyone knows it is way too soon to be discussing this sort of thing.


Just like the media that gets in victims faces in their time of grief ?
 
2012-12-16 05:32:47 PM  

Weaver95: "We reached out to all 31 pro-gun rights senators in the new Congress to invite them on the program to share their views on the subject this morning," he said. "We had no takers."

can you blame them? if they step up and push a pro-gun agenda right now they'd get slaughtered. these guys aren't stupid...they know when/where and how to pick their venues. in terms of practical strategy, standing up in front of a crowd and pushing a pro gun agenda is only going to hurt their cause and they know it.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're going to be real quiet for a while. they might offer some meaningless concessions, pretend apologies and/or do some sort of emotional gesture or whatnot. they could even go as far as to eventually offer some kind of toothless legislation meant to 'address the concerns' of various voter groups. But that's about as far as it'll go.


no weaver, they will be on FOX monday i will say. they will get softball questions and fake how tore up they are over someone with a mental illness. the guns wont be mentioned
 
2012-12-16 05:32:54 PM  
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


Why doesn't he wish to god that the murdering psychopath didn't have a gun?
 
2012-12-16 05:33:00 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?


I'm what you would call a liberal. I realize banning certain guns would only keep law abiding citizens from having those guns. I also know we could spend obscene amounts of money on mental health and things like this would still happen. What bothers me the most is neither side of this argument will approach or debate it in honest or realistic manner
 
2012-12-16 05:33:38 PM  

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.


The stupid thing about that quote is one of three things has to happen.

1) The gun is on the adult's body at all times liable to be taken via sucker punch esp. if it's know they have gun
2) The gun is locked up enough to not matter for a sudden break in to a small room, though admittedly someone in a nearby room could prepare
3) The gun is accessible enough for someone to steal and shoot
 
2012-12-16 05:34:35 PM  

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.

so you now want to contend that the GOP is driven by cold, remorseless/soulless logic and that a complete lack of empathy is a GOP virtue?


soulless logic? Since when do the dems believe in a soul? what is that for them?

You can make decisions based on logic without resorting to the whining of "fairness" which the dems oddly confuse with having empathy.
 
2012-12-16 05:34:58 PM  
Some numbers for you:

In 1992 Gun laws were stricter throughout the nation than they are now, many states had no CCW at all. In fact only 9 did. That year there were about 25,000 firearms related murders. In the last 20 years more than 40 states now have CCW, gun ownership is up from approximately 50 million to 80 million and the number of gun related murders is now down below 9,000.

For all of those of you who say 'more guns is safer is just derp' those are the factual numbers. Historically crime increases in bad economies, however the trend for firearms related deaths is simple: The more people that have guns, the less likely there is to be a gun related murder.

While I do oppose teachers carrying guns, which has been promoted by a few RWNJs, here is another startling fact for you: In Israel they had similar issues, teachers were issued guns, school shootings went away.

In Switzerland 1/2 the population owns guns, they have the lowest gun crime rate in the world.

In nations that ban guns, the trend is simple: More crime, more violence, more murder, more assault, and more rape.

Sources(not linked because I am too lazy on this my 3rd day of discussions) : FBI UCR; CDC; and Various UK, Australian; NZ, and other European law enforcement sites, WHO, and UN sites all confirm what I have just said, don't believe me go look it up yourself. ( I know one of you is going to point out the decline in murders in every nation in the world as proof I am wrong, here in the US murder is on the decline too clearly shown in the FBI UCR and CDC websites.
 
2012-12-16 05:35:19 PM  
It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...
 
2012-12-16 05:35:37 PM  
On the off chance that somebody might actually believe that headline.......you're being lied to.
 
2012-12-16 05:36:18 PM  

tentonsofderp: dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


nuthousepunks.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-16 05:36:38 PM  

AverageJoe77: thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?

I'm what you would call a liberal. I realize banning certain guns would only keep law abiding citizens from having those guns. I also know we could spend obscene amounts of money on mental health and things like this would still happen. What bothers me the most is neither side of this argument will approach or debate it in honest or realistic manner


unless a gun control advocate is suggesting an outright ban on semi-automatic handgun ownership, there's really nothing to talk about.
These were legally owned an registered guns that the psycho son of the owner got his hands on. What can we do? Put her corpse in prison?
 
2012-12-16 05:36:39 PM  
So umm... glad that Adam Lanza's gun enthusiast mother with the dozen or so guns stopped that killing spree that day!
 
2012-12-16 05:36:44 PM  

blueknight: no weaver, they will be on FOX monday i will say. they will get softball questions and fake how tore up they are over someone with a mental illness. the guns wont be mentioned


And then they will follow that up with a tirade against Obamacare and how we shouldn't have to be forced to pay for other people's problems.
 
2012-12-16 05:37:02 PM  

Rann Xerox: Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.
"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.
I wish to god Louie Gohmert's mother had swallowed nine months before his birth.


Did he also mention that the teacher who had guns to protect herself was killed by them, and so were a bunch of other people?
 
2012-12-16 05:37:29 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...


That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!
 
2012-12-16 05:39:18 PM  

AverageJoe77: thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?

I'm what you would call a liberal. I realize banning certain guns would only keep law abiding citizens from having those guns. I also know we could spend obscene amounts of money on mental health and things like this would still happen. What bothers me the most is neither side of this argument will approach or debate it in honest or realistic manner


well, first, if you are expecting honest or realistic debate on fark, you are kidding yourself.

Every complex problem has a simple solution...that is wrong. But that is what everyone likes to do...create that simple solution.
 
2012-12-16 05:40:07 PM  
Idiots whining about gun control again.
 
2012-12-16 05:40:56 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese:
You can make decisions based on logic without resorting to the whining of "fairness" which the dems oddly confuse with having empathy.


right - so you believe that emotions are a weakness and that cold, remorseless logic should be how to run a proper government. empathy? bah! purge that nonsense from your lexicon!
 
2012-12-16 05:41:00 PM  
I'm all for this debate; I want to see how Obama plans to make stealing guns from law abiding people, taking them to a place where guns aren't allowed, and using them to commit murder illegal. Oh wait... FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.
 
2012-12-16 05:41:46 PM  

AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!


How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?
 
2012-12-16 05:41:52 PM  
You know what? I'm glad they didn't take up any offers to discuss such an important issue, because they never bring anything productive to the table anyway.

The fewer people we have on national television bleating out NRA talking points, the better. If we on the pro-gun control side can shame them into keeping their mouths shut, then maybe eventually we can get some actual legislation going.
 
2012-12-16 05:43:06 PM  

AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!


Screw that shiat! I would rather we spend money on government officials to collect all the guns we don't like. Sure, rounding up all the guns we don't like will cost a lot of money, but if we spent that money on mental health we have other positive effects on society.
 
2012-12-16 05:45:40 PM  

cchris_39: On the off chance that somebody might actually believe that headline.......you're being lied to.


Thank you, Senator.

/cuz that's the ONLY way you could make that statement.
 
2012-12-16 05:46:52 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese:

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.


-2/10 Are you even trying?
 
2012-12-16 05:47:14 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks


Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.
 
2012-12-16 05:47:35 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better


Well, that's the important thing.
 
2012-12-16 05:47:59 PM  

skullkrusher: Forced mental health checks?


Maybe, if someone seems "...not to feel physical or emotional pain..." and occasionally has an episode where they "...completely [withdraw] from whatever [is] happening around him."

Link
 
2012-12-16 05:48:20 PM  

Azlefty: Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves


What additional taxpayer protection does a Senator receive when they're not at their job?
 
2012-12-16 05:50:19 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: I'm all for this debate; I want to see how Obama plans to make stealing guns from law abiding people, taking them to a place where guns aren't allowed, and using them to commit murder illegal. Oh wait... FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.


You know what it usually means when teachers have to keep guns in their desks?

It means they're in Somalia and they should probably get the fark out of there.
 
2012-12-16 05:50:32 PM  

fatassbastard: skullkrusher: Forced mental health checks?

Maybe, if someone seems "...not to feel physical or emotional pain..." and occasionally has an episode where they "...completely [withdraw] from whatever [is] happening around him."

Link


we'd have an army of Mental Health Officers monitoring Fark and committing every person on the politics tab to an institution for evaluations. Cept me cuz I got my shiat together. Rest of you motherfarkers are nuts.
 
2012-12-16 05:50:36 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...


Socialism!
 
2012-12-16 05:51:41 PM  

skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?


You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.
 
2012-12-16 05:52:40 PM  
Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words
 
2012-12-16 05:53:25 PM  

cchris_39: skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?

You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.


So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?
 
2012-12-16 05:54:26 PM  

cchris_39: skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?

You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.


Ah, the old "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas." game. Here's tip from a pro-gun lib: If the gun lobby starts talking about mental health, then you change the subject from gun control and it's a win-win. You get to keep all your guns, and you can blame the government for not helping these people more.
 
2012-12-16 05:55:54 PM  

12349876: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

The stupid thing about that quote is one of three things has to happen.

1) The gun is on the adult's body at all times liable to be taken via sucker punch esp. if it's know they have gun
2) The gun is locked up enough to not matter for a sudden break in to a small room, though admittedly someone in a nearby room could prepare
3) The gun is accessible enough for someone to steal and shoot


The principal wasn't in her office; she was meeting with a parent in another room near the classrooms with the vice-principal and a psychologist. Had there been a military rifle in the office, she would have had to leave the meeting room, assess the situation, run to the office (past the gunman, btw), get the key, unlock the storage area, unlock where the ammo is kept, load the weapon, and then confront the gunman. I kind of doubt he would have patiently waited for her to accomplish all that before shooting anyone.

The principal and psychologist died trying to stop the gunman. The vice-principal was injured and got to the office, where he activated the PA system. In this real life situation, who gets out the gun? The secretary? Or is the principal supposed to carry the rifle and ammo with her at all times? Gohmert is an idiot and a fool, basically just another one of those "more guns will make us safe" NRA shills who are too brain-dead to do their own thinking. The Wild West was a society as he described; everyone was armed, and no, it was NOT safer for everyone like that. In fact, the first thing that happened when law enforcement officers moved into an area like that was to ban weapons from towns, bars and saloons, anywhere where the chance for violent outbursts were common.

I don't blame the GOP for not going on TV today to debate gun control laws. I give them intelligence enough to realize they couldn't defend the indefensible. I also don't expect them to change one iota off their pro-gun, anti-responsibility message they've been pushing about guns for decades now either.
 
2012-12-16 05:56:01 PM  
"Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"
 
2012-12-16 05:56:26 PM  

NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools. "I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.


The Pricipal. Starring Samuel L Jackson as Dawn Hochsprung: "Enough is enough! I've had it with these motherfarking schizophrenics in my motherfarking elementary school!"

Is he dead or not?
 
2012-12-16 05:58:28 PM  

Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.


Exactly, now is not the time for the GOP to debate this. Democrats are trying to lure them into an obvious trap. I can't say I blame either side, but it is kind of shameless.
 
2012-12-16 05:58:51 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.


Didn't you just run away crying from the other gun thread?
 
2012-12-16 05:59:57 PM  

KidneyStone: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

In case you didn't notice, not having a rifle didn't work out so well. But who's to say having a rifle would have made a difference?

I can say one thing: you can't win a raffle without having a ticket


But 99.9% of the people who bought a ticket don't win.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:06 PM  

Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"


Correct stance? This post brought to you by your friends at the NRA. Keeping America afraid and armed so that corporations can make immense profit off the death of thousands.

//yeah, yeah, I know, just arm everybody. Keep posting that every single thread, bro. Someone, at least one person is likely to buy into it.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:38 PM  
Conservatives think that if you favor gun control, you hate America, but I disagree. It seems obvious to me that if you hated America, you'd be in favor of more guns so that there can be more mass shootings.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:42 PM  
That's so weird. I just looked in my thesaurus under the entry "craven." It listed "pro-gun rights Senator" as a synonym.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:48 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better

Well, that's the important thing.


Since you seem to have a problem with making inferences, I'll clarify by saying that my sister would be more safe in a school with secured firearms able to be accessed by trained and responsible adults in the event of an emergency than she would be relying on wishes, dreams, paperwork and happy thoughts from people like you were an attack to happen at her school.

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks

Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.


Right. Because I'm sure that there's no way the government could get a desk with provisions for securing a firearm that could only be accessed by the teacher. We should stick to simpler undertakings like manned spaceflight and cloning large organisms.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:57 PM  

Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?


Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea. My sister is an elementary principal. I (and it turns out many others) told her get a gun and keep in her drawer. Like most educators, she is the type that would throw her whole 5-2 buck twenty at the shooter to save her kids.

Sucks I know but having some people at the school armed and ready is the best I have.
 
2012-12-16 06:01:15 PM  

WTF Indeed: cchris_39: skullkrusher: AverageJoe77: WTF Indeed: It's good to see that Americans from both sides of the gun issue are standing up to do nothing about making sure the mentally unstable are properly diagnosed and treated so that they don't act on the urge to murder children. oh wait...

That would require spending money on the unwashed masses. We can't have that!

How do you propose the mentally unstable are diagnosed and treated? Forced mental health checks?

You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.

Ah, the old "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas." game. Here's tip from a pro-gun lib: If the gun lobby starts talking about mental health, then you change the subject from gun control and it's a win-win. You get to keep all your guns, and you can blame the government for not helping these people more.


you haven't suggested any concrete ideas. White kid, affluent family - how are we to ensure he gets diagnosed and treated? Maybe a neighbor can report him for suspicion of insanity?
 
2012-12-16 06:01:18 PM  

Primum: Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios


I once worked with a guy who had a concealed carry license and went packin' everywhere he went. One time I asked him why he carried, and he said it was because he cared about people and didn't want to see them hurt in the event of a shooting or a robbery or whatever. That conversation ended with me rolling my eyes, saying, "If you care so much about people, then feed the poor," and walking off.

But it got me to thinking, I bet a lot of people carry for just that reason, because they "care" so much. I wonder how many of them carry insulin around, or a first aid kit, or a defibrillator, or a fire extinguisher, or even extra cash for emergencies. You know, just in the off-chance that someone's life depends on it.
 
2012-12-16 06:02:21 PM  

James F. Campbell: Conservatives think that if you favor gun control, you hate America, but I disagree. It seems obvious to me that if you hated America, you'd be in favor of more guns so that there can be more mass shootings.


No, no, no... the talking point is that it will reduce gun violence if we arm everyone. Because somewhere in Georgia, it actually did. It must have been so tough convincing everyone in that town to get a gun. It would be like asking them if they want to f*ck their cousin in the back of their Chevy.
 
2012-12-16 06:03:49 PM  

James F. Campbell: Conservatives think that if you favor gun control, you hate America, but I disagree. It seems obvious to me that if you hated America, you'd be in favor of more guns so that there can be more mass shootings.


Why do you hate America?
 
2012-12-16 06:03:55 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better

Well, that's the important thing.

Since you seem to have a problem with making inferences, I'll clarify by saying that my sister would be more safe in a school with secured firearms able to be accessed by trained and responsible adults in the event of an emergency than she would be relying on wishes, dreams, paperwork and happy thoughts from people like you were an attack to happen at her school.

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks

Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.

Right. Because I'm sure that there's no way the government could get a desk with provisions for securing a firearm that could only be accessed by the teacher. We should stick to simpler undertakings like manned spaceflight and cloning large organisms.


Pay attention folks: gun rights advocates want to live in a world where kindergarten teachers are forced to pack heat to keep their kids safe. We can live in that world. Or, we can begin discussing repeal or amendment of the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-16 06:04:36 PM  
Sounds like 31 people who realized it would basically be a kangaroo court interview situation if they had taken the offer. I guarantee, whether I agree or not, that they would have been held accountable for a mentally challenged young man and have had no way to counter that.
 
2012-12-16 06:05:00 PM  

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese:
You can make decisions based on logic without resorting to the whining of "fairness" which the dems oddly confuse with having empathy.

right - so you believe that emotions are a weakness and that cold, remorseless logic should be how to run a proper government. empathy? bah! purge that nonsense from your lexicon!


Not all emotions. Blind, judgmental anger comes in handy for the GOP.
 
2012-12-16 06:05:30 PM  

cchris_39: Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?

Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea.


And finally, an honest answer.
 
2012-12-16 06:05:47 PM  

BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...


So, what you're saying is that they're pussies?

Or do they fear that they will be unable to defend their position?

Both?
 
2012-12-16 06:05:52 PM  

Nezu Chiza: Sounds like 31 people who realized it would basically be a kangaroo court interview situation if they had taken the offer. I guarantee, whether I agree or not, that they would have been held accountable for a mentally challenged young man and have had no way to counter that.


Most mentally challenged are bootstrappy enough to make a mark on this world without resorting to violence. They're called Republicans.
 
2012-12-16 06:07:18 PM  

Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"


So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:08 PM  

Nezu Chiza: Sounds like 31 people who realized it would basically be a kangaroo court interview situation if they had taken the offer. I guarantee, whether I agree or not, that they would have been held accountable for a mentally challenged young man and have had no way to counter that.


David Gregory is a Republican.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:13 PM  

Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?

Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea.

And finally, an honest answer.


OK, sorry, I was trying to be a little funny and that was a bit unfair to you. I apologize.

You did give one suggestion about having people armed at schools. It's not the way I would like to go, but we can disagree without me taking a cheap shot.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:27 PM  
The guns are perfectly safe, meticulously engineered and manufactured to impeccable standards of quality and reliability unmatched in the field of consumer products.

It's the humans that are unsafe. So we need to find a means of producing better humans and weeding out the ones with safety issues and correcting them before they explode and take out bystanders.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:28 PM  

Pincy: blueknight: no weaver, they will be on FOX monday i will say. they will get softball questions and fake how tore up they are over someone with a mental illness. the guns wont be mentioned

And then they will follow that up with a tirade against Obamacare and how we shouldn't have to be forced to pay for other people's problems.


Yup. They will not appear on a program where their positions might be challenged in any way not pre-arranged with the hosts. They will parade onto Fox News, where their talking points can be regurgitated verbatim, unencumbered by opposing views or even rational questions.
 
2012-12-16 06:08:31 PM  

Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words


I had one job where I strongly considered renewing my long-expired carry permit. I decided it was a better idea to change jobs. Carrying a gun is a pain in the ass, the best possible outcome is I accidentally leave it on a piece of equipment after removing it to mount something heavy, worst outcome is I actually use the thing. Even the people who supported Bernie Goetz (sp?) didn't want to actually live next door to the nut. I don't want to be that guy.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:20 PM  
I demand the right to carry a bazooka onto a plane.

Farking watered down rights.

Arms include bazookas. Does constitution say firearms? No. IT SAYS ARMS. Does constitution mention planes? No. IT SAYS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Sick of weasally constitution-violating NRA.

Bazookas on planes. MY RIGHT. MY RIGHT. MY RIGHT.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:24 PM  
I'm pretty pro gun but the answer to the Sandy Hook is not allowing guns in middle/elementary schools. There is absolutely 100% no reason to have a gun in an area concentrated with children.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:25 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"

So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.


Sure they can. Now just isn't the time to do it.
 
2012-12-16 06:10:22 PM  
It's not fair to discuss X so soon after X was so effectively used to massacre children. It makes it really hard for guys who use X to substitute for a reasonably-sized penis.
 
2012-12-16 06:10:46 PM  

Pincy: You did give one suggestion about having people armed at schools.


Just to be clear, the suggestions from gun rights advocates have been kindergarten teachers packing heat. Kindergarten teachers. Packing heat.

Repeal or amendment. That's where the conversation must go from here.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:25 PM  

Phony_Soldier: Lionel Mandrake: Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"

So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.

Sure they can. Now just isn't the time to do it.


Yeah...never is.

Their arguments must be really good, but I guess we'll never know.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:27 PM  

siphra: Some numbers for you:

In 1992 Gun laws were stricter throughout the nation than they are now, many states had no CCW at all. In fact only 9 did. That year there were about 25,000 firearms related murders. In the last 20 years more than 40 states now have CCW, gun ownership is up from approximately 50 million to 80 million and the number of gun related murders is now down below 9,000.

For all of those of you who say 'more guns is safer is just derp' those are the factual numbers. Historically crime increases in bad economies, however the trend for firearms related deaths is simple: The more people that have guns, the less likely there is to be a gun related murder.

While I do oppose teachers carrying guns, which has been promoted by a few RWNJs, here is another startling fact for you: In Israel they had similar issues, teachers were issued guns, school shootings went away.

In Switzerland 1/2 the population owns guns, they have the lowest gun crime rate in the world.

In nations that ban guns, the trend is simple: More crime, more violence, more murder, more assault, and more rape.

Sources(not linked because I am too lazy on this my 3rd day of discussions) : FBI UCR; CDC; and Various UK, Australian; NZ, and other European law enforcement sites, WHO, and UN sites all confirm what I have just said, don't believe me go look it up yourself. ( I know one of you is going to point out the decline in murders in every nation in the world as proof I am wrong, here in the US murder is on the decline too clearly shown in the FBI UCR and CDC websites.


If you have read Freakonomics, you'd know that just as easily attribute the drop in crime to legal abortions, better sex ed, and easier access/better social acceptance of birth control for teens. There are so many demographic/economic factors in play with those stats you quote that it is damn near impossible to nail the drop in crime down to a single cause. Saying it is entirely due to concealed carry is disingenuous at best.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:47 PM  

The Name: Primum: Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

I once worked with a guy who had a concealed carry license and went packin' everywhere he went. One time I asked him why he carried, and he said it was because he cared about people and didn't want to see them hurt in the event of a shooting or a robbery or whatever. That conversation ended with me rolling my eyes, saying, "If you care so much about people, then feed the poor," and walking off.

But it got me to thinking, I bet a lot of people carry for just that reason, because they "care" so much. I wonder how many of them carry insulin around, or a first aid kit, or a defibrillator, or a fire extinguisher, or even extra cash for emergencies. You know, just in the off-chance that someone's life depends on it.


Are you suggesting its ok to walk into a building and remove all the fire extinguishers and defribrilators from the walls because they'll probably not be needed on any given day?

/and who the hell doesn't keep emergency cash on hand?
/I do keep a larger than normal first aid kit in the truck, but no insulin.
/can't plan for everything.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:50 PM  
What happened to politicians being representatives of their constituents? Why WOULD someone go on national TV who's a representative of a district or state that is massively pro 2nd amendment/anti-anything ban just to hear an opposing view and opinion? What good would it do?

/AR-15 owner
//Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can
 
2012-12-16 06:12:34 PM  

Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy: So if all these recent tragedies are just the result of mentally ill people then how do you propose prevent further such incidents? Or are you saying that this is just a part of life we have to learn to live with?

Finally a reasonable debate question, thank you.

Honestly, I have no idea.

And finally, an honest answer.


Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.
 
2012-12-16 06:13:18 PM  

justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can


So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?
 
2012-12-16 06:13:29 PM  

dickfreckle: But yeah, I would like to see dicks like Gohmert demonstrate how an armed and terrified elementary school teacher would have prevented or at least mitigated the tragedy. Go ahead, big man, demonstrate how badass everyone in the world could be if they were only more in line with your cheap rhetoric. When you're done, don't forget to call a mean ole' lib for picking on you. Pussy.


So you are arguing that keeping schools as "gun free zones", which is working oh, so well, is better than allowing teachers to be trained and carry at schools?

A teacher might be able to bring herself to fire at at some asshole who is killing innocent children. That's infinitely better than no farking chance of doing anything but sacrificing herself.
 
2012-12-16 06:14:08 PM  
Let's put this in economic terms - why does the left want to kill jobs by discussing gun control?

1) Less firearms sales
2) Less post-trauma therapy
3) Less first responder jobs
4) Less "Sorry for your loss" greeting cards sales.
5) Less jobs for funeral homes.
6) Less jobs for medical examiners.
7) Less need for blood bank employees.

It's obvious that there is a Hallmark / Healthcare / Funeral Home / Arms Manufacturer cabal that is up against the libs.

Good luck with that syndicate.
 
2012-12-16 06:14:23 PM  

way south: Are you suggesting its ok to walk into a building and remove all the fire extinguishers and defribrilators from the walls because they'll probably not be needed on any given day?


Nothing he said suggested that in any way.
 
2012-12-16 06:15:36 PM  
thinkprogress.orgView Full Size
 
2012-12-16 06:17:08 PM  

GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.


The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.
 
2012-12-16 06:17:29 PM  

GhostFish: skullkrusher: you haven't suggested any concrete ideas. White kid, affluent family - how are we to ensure he gets diagnosed and treated? Maybe a neighbor can report him for suspicion of insanity?

We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help. We need parents to be more willing to ask for help for their children, and children to be more willing to ask for help for themselves. Most people going through problems like depression and anxiety disorders know that something is wrong. They just can't bring themselves to ask for help because of all the negative things that we as a society associate with mental health treatment.

How do we do that? I don't know. How about a farking study on the issue or something.


reduce negative side effects for copping to mental problems? Like limited access to guns?
That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case
 
2012-12-16 06:19:53 PM  
Pincy:

Thanks! We're good no worries :)
 
2012-12-16 06:20:37 PM  

cchris_39: You just don't get it do you. If something bad happens, more government control and more government spending can fix it. Duh.


Obviously, more tax cuts for billionaires will keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of the mentally unstable.
 
2012-12-16 06:20:47 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Mrbogey: "Come on our show so we can take your logical principled and correct stance and emotionalize it and make you a dick. What's a matter? Why aren't you doing things that we can spin to make you look bad?"

So, pro-gun people don't have good arguments and/or are inherently inferior at defending their position?

Wow, a lot of tough gun-guys are sounding really pussy right now.


To be perfectly honest, a lot of people, here and elsewhere in life/the Internet, are losing their collective shiat over the issue right now. Here, people I swear up and down I'd be aligned with on ANY other issue have gone so far as to accuse me and people thinking like me of "having blood on our hands" and being "killers". Me, personally, I don't even own a gun. I'd like to, mainly for target shooting. But somehow, because I'd rather have a semi-automatic 9mm instead of a cumbersome muzzleloader, I'm now no better than Adam Lanza himself. That's bullshiat, frankly.

Then there are the issue of the proposals. There were a few people yesterday whose posts made my eyes twitch. One guy proposed taxing the entertainment industry if ANY production depicted gunplay in any way. If that's not missing the point, I don't know what is.
 
2012-12-16 06:21:02 PM  

cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.


I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.
 
2012-12-16 06:21:38 PM  

mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.


Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.
 
2012-12-16 06:22:12 PM  
I have a rational idea. Let's figure out why people murder other people and try to diminish the need for them to do that.

1) Mental health.
2) Loss of community.
3) Right-wing fear machine.
4) Glorification of the military (leading to enlistment, PTSD, ergo, see #1).
5) Drug trade

Since the discussion on gun control is about as movable as the one on abortion, why not actually consider, I dunno.... causes?
 
2012-12-16 06:22:17 PM  

Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words


LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.
 
2012-12-16 06:24:37 PM  

justinsmith354: Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words

LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.


A) Lots of fools out there.
B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".
 
2012-12-16 06:25:02 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.

I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.


What you don't understand is that people are telling you they would rather try other solutions than having teachers pack heat in elementary schools. That would be a last resort, and a sad commentary on our society at that.
 
2012-12-16 06:25:42 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.


That seems to be the direction the conversation is going. Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.
 
2012-12-16 06:25:45 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.

I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.


Something tells me that having armed teacher would make it a nightmare liability wise for public schools, which I think is part of why they're usually gun-free zones. 

I like the School Resource Officer idea myself.
 
2012-12-16 06:25:59 PM  

Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?


Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.
 
2012-12-16 06:26:27 PM  

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: cchris_39: Pincy: cchris_39: Pincy:

Sucks doesn't it. What would you tell your wife/mom/sister if she was a principal? Maybe we can actually elevate this thread above the usual.

I already tried this, and the derp I got back was unbelievable. All the insults of regular with 99% less facts.

FYI, I live in CT and my sister is a teacher, and I would feel a lot better about her safety if teachers were allowed to receive training and keep guns secured in their desks than I would if another law were to be made for the lawless.

What you don't understand is that people are telling you they would rather try other solutions than having teachers pack heat in elementary schools. That would be a last resort, and a sad commentary on our society at that.


Not to mention that if she is keeping the gun in her desk, it's about as useful as tits on a bull. The assailant is gonna blow her away before she can put down the piece of chalk.
 
2012-12-16 06:26:27 PM  
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) joined the show to discuss a greater need for gun control. She announced that Senate Democrats would intrduce a new bill banning assault weapons on the first day of the new Congress in January.

Yes... because the Federal Government attempting to 'ban' things has worked so well in the past.
 
2012-12-16 06:27:35 PM  

GhostFish: skullkrusher: That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case

I'm not really in favor of knee-jerk reactionary legislation, are you?
Like I said, I'd like to see some studies on the matter. I don't want new laws put in place just to make people feel good.


of course not - lots of snarky comments about mental health care, not many actual ideas on making sure those who need help get it and take their meds
 
2012-12-16 06:28:39 PM  

skullkrusher: GhostFish: skullkrusher: That all sounds really nice. Nothing too actionable from a legislative perspective that wouldve helped in this case

I'm not really in favor of knee-jerk reactionary legislation, are you?
Like I said, I'd like to see some studies on the matter. I don't want new laws put in place just to make people feel good.

of course not - lots of snarky comments about mental health care, not many actual ideas on making sure those who need help get it and take their meds


I think we're all in favor of the status quo, really. What the f*ck would we have to talk about if sh*t ain't getting real all the time?
 
2012-12-16 06:29:52 PM  

justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.


People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?
 
2012-12-16 06:30:09 PM  

GhostFish: Yeah. Someone is either deemed a threat to themselves and/or others, or they're not.
If someone is deemed a threat, you don't release them into the general population.


Under the Baker Act, they're not. But being Baker Acted is one of the few ways you can lose your firearms rights short of a felony conviction. It is illegal for persons who've been committed under the Baker Act to possess firearms, and illegal for vendors to knowingly sell them.

Which has its own set of injustices associated with it. Some people are wrongfully committed. Some people have a single episode, and then go on to live normal lives, but are permanently deprived of the 2nd Amendment rights so many hold dear. Meanwhile, a guy can tell his therapist he fantasizes about going on a shooting rampage in an elementary school, and he can still buy firearms provided
he says things like "I don't think I'd ever really do it."
 
2012-12-16 06:31:13 PM  

coeyagi: I have a rational idea. Let's figure out why people murder other people and try to diminish the need for them to do that.

1) Mental health.
2) Loss of community.
3) Right-wing fear machine.
4) Glorification of the military (leading to enlistment, PTSD, ergo, see #1).
5) Drug trade

Since the discussion on gun control is about as movable as the one on abortion, why not actually consider, I dunno.... causes?


WOW. So now you're going to blame these mass shootings on the military(who apparently have a life cycle of birth, enlistment, PTSD, mass shooting)? They've been perpetrated by nutty HS and College students who never served, and in fact many of the victims of the non-school ones have been veterans, who once again put themselves in harms way to try to save others. You should be ashamed, but I'm not counting on it.

img11.hostingpics.netView Full Size
 
2012-12-16 06:31:35 PM  
Did Bravado GiT really just come in here and shiat again, the run away, never to be heard from ASSGAIN???


/no...?
 
2012-12-16 06:31:40 PM  

Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?


I think he's saying he hunts because he can.

/If hunting is your interest so be it.
//Can't we all just get along?
 
2012-12-16 06:31:59 PM  

mittromneysdog: Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.

That seems to be the direction the conversation is going.


No. No one with any brains wants that. The idea is to destigmatize the field of mental health so people can be given help before it gets out of hand. Like finding a benign polyp before it becomes inoperable full-body cancer.

Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.

Would you like to buy a bridge? Some quality real estate in sunny Florida, maybe?
 
2012-12-16 06:32:04 PM  

Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?


It's the pride in knowing that you have a swinging pair of balls between your legs, that you killed it yourself. Hey, whatever people have to do to remind themselves that they have a pair of testicles short of looking down their pants, well, so be it.
 
2012-12-16 06:32:07 PM  
I'm pretty pro gun but the answer to the Sandy Hook is not allowing guns in middle/elementary schools. There is absolutely 100% no reason to have a gun in an area concentrated with children.

If you mean passing laws that prohibit guns in schools, all you accomplish is setting up a nice juicy soft target for mass shooters to show up at and blast away, like what just happened.

If you mean taking active steps to keep guns out, like surrounding the school with fences, and passing everybody through metal detectors at the entrance to detect the guns, and provide a MEANS to stop someone with a gun from getting in, then yes, that would work great.

/paging TSA to the schoolyard, paging TSA....
 
2012-12-16 06:32:10 PM  
Hey teabaggers, try that on for size, motherfarkers!
 
2012-12-16 06:32:13 PM  
*then
 
2012-12-16 06:32:19 PM  

Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?


Because you can score free meat?

/and because invasive species destroy farm land.
 
2012-12-16 06:33:09 PM  

mittromneysdog: Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.

That seems to be the direction the conversation is going. Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.


Or we could do something about health care and mental health care, and maybe also deal with the fact that the people who are supposed to be the chief custodians of our gun culture are instead some of the Republican Party's biggest shills. I bet further reforms to health care and a complete overhaul/replacement of the NRA would yield better results in the long-term. Hell, maybe even short-term, too.
 
2012-12-16 06:33:10 PM  

UConnOIFVeteran: coeyagi: I have a rational idea. Let's figure out why people murder other people and try to diminish the need for them to do that.

1) Mental health.
2) Loss of community.
3) Right-wing fear machine.
4) Glorification of the military (leading to enlistment, PTSD, ergo, see #1).
5) Drug trade

Since the discussion on gun control is about as movable as the one on abortion, why not actually consider, I dunno.... causes?

WOW. So now you're going to blame these mass shootings on the military(who apparently have a life cycle of birth, enlistment, PTSD, mass shooting)? They've been perpetrated by nutty HS and College students who never served, and in fact many of the victims of the non-school ones have been veterans, who once again put themselves in harms way to try to save others. You should be ashamed, but I'm not counting on it.

[img11.hostingpics.net image 472x352]


You're right, no PTSD person has ever murdered anyone. Ever.
 
2012-12-16 06:33:56 PM  

coeyagi: justinsmith354: Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words

LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

A) Lots of fools out there.
B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".


Your argument is dumb. Deal with it.

I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

If I wanted to be "prepared" to save someone in anaphylactic shock, I would be carrying a farking epi pen. The only thing I'm "prepared" for is directly related to MYSELF and MY well being. Not yours or the general public.

You see...the difference is that I know that EVEN IF I WAS trying to be a "hero", the odds of me actually using my CW or an epi pen in public are probably about the same.
 
2012-12-16 06:34:11 PM  

propasaurus: Clearly, this is not the time to have a conversation about guns. It's too soon. Wait until this all blows over then we can discuss it rationally without emotion.


So that they can all say "GOD! Get OVER it, that was like TWO WEEKS ago!"
 
2012-12-16 06:34:26 PM  
s20.postimage.orgView Full Size
 
2012-12-16 06:34:33 PM  

justinsmith354: Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.


You must live in Texas.
And if you seriously think anyone here believes you're going to pass up the chance to smoke a street thug, you're an idiot.
 
2012-12-16 06:36:25 PM  

justinsmith354: coeyagi: justinsmith354: Primum: Raving lunatic gun-owners* and NRA bribery recipients are a bunch of f*cking cowards? Who. Woulda. Thunkit.

(*to be distinguished from good gun owners such as normal hunters)

Never met a CCW who wasn't a huge pussy, concerned about almost-nonexistent crime, "blacks" and "Mexicans" and constantly running through ridiculous hero-fantasy daydream bullshiat scenarios

Real men fight with their fists and words

LOL...I carry almost everywhere I go and I can assure I'm neither a pussy or concerned about "blacks and Mexicans". The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

A) Lots of fools out there.
B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".

Your argument is dumb. Deal with it.

I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

If I wanted to be "prepared" to save someone in anaphylactic shock, I would be carrying a farking epi pen. The only thing I'm "prepared" for is directly related to MYSELF and MY well being. Not yours or the general public.

You see...the difference is that I know that EVEN IF I WAS trying to be a "hero", the odds of me actually using my CW or an epi pen in public are probably about the same.


Summation: I only give a f*ck about myself.

Cool bro, just don't use so many words to say the derptastically obvious.
 
2012-12-16 06:37:13 PM  

coeyagi: Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?

It's the pride in knowing that you have a swinging pair of balls between your legs, that you killed it yourself. Hey, whatever people have to do to remind themselves that they have a pair of testicles short of looking down their pants, well, so be it.


...OK. Call it snark, I don't care.

Can I get a full list of activities/hobbies that are "compensating for something"-free? Because mine so far only has eating, sleeping and breathing on it.
 
2012-12-16 06:38:54 PM  
Bushmaster: All you need is 700 bucks and a dream.
 
2012-12-16 06:39:26 PM  

justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?


Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?
 
2012-12-16 06:39:50 PM  

Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.


Yeah, kind of my thought. The price of getting pro-gun rights senators to keep their mouths shut is 20 dead children.

I'm not sure it's a fair exchange, honestly; but it's good to know they actually do have a price.
 
2012-12-16 06:40:04 PM  

vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.


Gun smithing school is about the same price and you can learn to make your own.
 
2012-12-16 06:40:11 PM  

mark12A: I'm pretty pro gun but the answer to the Sandy Hook is not allowing guns in middle/elementary schools. There is absolutely 100% no reason to have a gun in an area concentrated with children.

If you mean passing laws that prohibit guns in schools, all you accomplish is setting up a nice juicy soft target for mass shooters to show up at and blast away, like what just happened.

If you mean taking active steps to keep guns out, like surrounding the school with fences, and passing everybody through metal detectors at the entrance to detect the guns, and provide a MEANS to stop someone with a gun from getting in, then yes, that would work great.

/paging TSA to the schoolyard, paging TSA....


I think if you just put a school resource officer in every school like they do with middle and high schools already, that would help out quite a bit without making a litigious nightmare in having teachers carry concealed weapons in the classroom.

But that's just me.
 
2012-12-16 06:40:54 PM  

way south: Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?

Because you can score free meat?

/and because invasive species destroy farm land.


OH...I get it now. I think it was another thread where people were talking about owning an "assault weapon" because in short...they could. I forgot where I was.

Their argument was poorly linked to automobiles....like saying...why does anyone "NEED" a super car that goes 200+ MPH? And they said...because they could. Just like they can buy a Viking Tactical OBR.

And yes...wild hogs are becoming a problem around here.
 
2012-12-16 06:41:32 PM  
So the same people who bargained away my rights to free speech and privacy after 9/11 are afraid to be on the receiving (in the Prison biatch sense) end of the Fear Machine?

How nice for them to be able to opt out.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:29 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Mentat: I've never seen the GOP so reluctant to engage in a gun rights debate. I don't think anything could come of this, but it's interesting to see that the GOP has (for the most part) enough sense to stay away from a fight involving 20 dead kindergartners.

Yeah, kind of my thought. The price of getting pro-gun rights senators to keep their mouths shut is 20 dead children.

I'm not sure it's a fair exchange, honestly; but it's good to know they actually do have a price.


See pro-gun senators are people too.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:29 PM  

Clutch2013: coeyagi: Pincy: justinsmith354: Pincy: justinsmith354: //Killer of wild boar NOT people
//Because I can

So do you eat the boar you kill or do you just kill them because you can?

Both. Went hunting this morning. Killed a limit of Ducks yesterday morning. They are in my freezer now. Next to a deer tender loin and summer sausage, processed by the Mennonites that live down road. I'll kill and eat all of it...because I can.

People eat meat. That meat comes from killing animals. We all know this. So I'm just interested in why you keep saying "Because I can". Were you not able to eat meat for some reason and now you can?

It's the pride in knowing that you have a swinging pair of balls between your legs, that you killed it yourself. Hey, whatever people have to do to remind themselves that they have a pair of testicles short of looking down their pants, well, so be it.

...OK. Call it snark, I don't care.

Can I get a full list of activities/hobbies that are "compensating for something"-free? Because mine so far only has eating, sleeping and breathing on it.


Reading, watching movies, arts / crafts, seeing a play, acting - totally ball-affirming.

//watches / plays sports - because I like competition, which is kinda healthy for society and the individual.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:58 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Azlefty: jbc: Folks who go through life feeling they NEED to have guns 24/7 are cowards? Who would have guessed?

Took more guts to say no rather than use the kids bodies as a platform to advance you ready made agenda. Also did you know Senator Fienstien has a Coveted California CCW? Showing SHE is the one needing a gun 24/7 even with the taxpayer protection She recieves

She wants HER gun 24/7, but she doesn't believe that us peasants deserve the same right.


Well, we all agree the mentally ill shouldn't have guns, so yes, you probably shouldn't have a gun.
 
2012-12-16 06:43:40 PM  
Mugger: "Gimme your wallet!"
Responsible gun owner: "Sure thing, here ya go. Don't want any trouble."
Mugger: "And your watch & ring,too."
Responsible gun owner: "No problem, stay calm, a watch isn't worth getting killed over."
Mugger: "What else you got?"
Responsible gun owner: "Just this fully loaded 9mm..."

BLAM!
 
2012-12-16 06:44:45 PM  

The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?


Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.
 
2012-12-16 06:46:09 PM  

justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?

Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.


Yep. And I plan not to wear a hoodie and carry Skittle and Snapple for fear of having my life deprived by some paranoid asshole.
 
2012-12-16 06:47:00 PM  

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.


Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.
 
2012-12-16 06:49:49 PM  

propasaurus: Mugger: "Gimme your wallet!"
Responsible gun owner: "Sure thing, here ya go. Don't want any trouble."
Mugger: "And your watch & ring,too."
Responsible gun owner: "No problem, stay calm, a watch isn't worth getting killed over."
Mugger: "What else you got?"
Responsible gun owner: "Just this fully loaded 9mm..."

BLAM!


Sounds very Christian. That's in the Sermon on the Mount, right?
 
2012-12-16 06:50:17 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.


justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.
 
2012-12-16 06:50:45 PM  

coeyagi: justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?

Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.

Yep. And I plan not to wear a hoodie and carry Skittle and Snapple for fear of having my life deprived by some paranoid asshole.


HA! Well...sounds like you need to move to Arkansas. People are less backwards here than you might think. And not everyone is a moron like George Zimmerman. Kind of like everyone that references philosophers and Latin in their comments aren't all assholes.
 
2012-12-16 06:51:51 PM  
If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.
 
2012-12-16 06:52:21 PM  
She announced that Senate Democrats would intrduce a new bill banning assault weapons on the first day of the new Congress in January.

I see that the Democrats are taking advantage of their political capital to waste everyone's time on whit that, it has been empirically demonstrated, will not make it into law instead of actually doing something useful.

Apparently they've watched the GOP crashing and burning like crazy because of their over-reliance on a few hot-button issues that have no chance of actually passing and staying passed, and their thought was "that seems like a good idea, let's do that".

//What I'm saying here is that this one's not a winner. It's the "make abortion illegal" of the left, just farking give up on it already and focus on intermediate measures that people are willing to give ground on, like background check. Advocating bans are just going to make you hemmorhage voters, we've heard this song before.

coeyagi: B) You must also carry insulin, AEDs, an epi pen, a first aid kit, and extra cash wherever you go, because you're "prepared".


AEDs are a bad idea in most first aid situations, and you don't really want to administer insulin to anyone that doesn't carry his/her own. But you should carry basic first aid supplies and have access to a better kit with an epi pen. And any reasonable person that's not an idiot carries 20$ in cash or so in case their card is declined.

And you should know how to administer insulin if you can.

Basically, if you're trying to be sarcastic it's kind of falling flat, because if you're a normal, responsible adult you should be able to access most of those things in short order. Not necessarily pull them out of your pockets like magic, but if you don't have a first-aid kit you keep up to date in your car and home (you likely already have one in your office due to workplace policy) then you are in fact an irresponsible little shiat. Cash I can give or take, if your card's declined and you dont have a backup that only hurts you.
 
2012-12-16 06:52:27 PM  

justinsmith354: coeyagi: justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I'm sure you would call an ambulance "prepared". However I bet hardly any of them are prepared like a cop is "prepared". Is a fireman "prepared" to take down a hostage taker?

Haha! Okay, Anselm. You care to unpack this little soliloquy on the teleology of preparedness?

Not really. I just want to continue to be able to walk down the street and be in public and be "prepared" without you ever knowing it. And I'm betting I get to.

Yep. And I plan not to wear a hoodie and carry Skittle and Snapple for fear of having my life deprived by some paranoid asshole.

HA! Well...sounds like you need to move to Arkansas. People are less backwards here than you might think. And not everyone is a moron like George Zimmerman. Kind of like everyone that references philosophers and Latin in their comments aren't all assholes.


Yeah, condemnation against book learnin'! Good stuff.

Also, writing what you've written then saying that Arkansas isn't all backwards does really nothing to help with my impression of Arkansas.
 
2012-12-16 06:53:02 PM  
I think if you just put a school resource officer in every school like they do with middle and high schools already, that would help out quite a bit without making a litigious nightmare in having teachers carry concealed weapons in the classroom.

But that's just me.


That would be a great step in the right direction.

People need to realize that designating "No gun zones" is worse that useless. It just attracts the crazies looking for easy kills, knowing it would be unlikely anybody could shoot back at them.
 
2012-12-16 06:53:10 PM  

Phony_Soldier: demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.

justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.


Then a situation in which he would need his gun to protect his family must be unreal, because any situation requiring the drawing of a gun is unreal, by his own definition.
 
2012-12-16 06:55:37 PM  

Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.


You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.
 
2012-12-16 06:55:45 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: BravadoGT: Really? None of them wanted to spend their Sunday morning getting triple-teamed and shouted down by Gregory, Feinstein and Bloomberg?

That IS strange...

Not to mention defending the indefensible.


I don't think they'd get on national television and defend the actions of the asshole who did the murder. But I see nothing wrong with still being a staunch supporter of Second Amendment rights. Especially when you have two of the biggest anti-gun loons, front and center, preaching on and on about how guns are bad.

Except in the case of Sen. Feinstein when she had a CA CCW permit and a gun in the late 70's to protect herself from loonies. Oh, and Bloomberg who has armed bodyguards to protect him from the very people he thinks are so good and kind; so well protected by the police, that they don't need a gun to protect themselves in NYC!

How quickly does Diane Feinstein forget that Columbine happened WHILE the AWB was in place. I'm sure the AWB was the first thing on Eric Harris' or Dylan Klebold's mind as they senselessly plowed through throngs of their fellow students and teachers.
 
2012-12-16 06:56:25 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.


I award you no points...and my God have mercy on your soul.

WTF am I reading? Why in the hell would I rush into a scene of a mass shooting? I can assure if I'm still alive after I hear shots in a mass shooting, my old high school 40 yard dash speed would suddenly re appear. And if I'm with my family....I'm pushing them at the same speed.

Again, not every CCW permit holder is a Zimmerman. I can assure you.
 
2012-12-16 06:56:32 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH:
Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.


I'm sure you're an expert on mass shooting events, so I'll not question your sentiment that wearing a police uniform is the only way an armed interdiction into such an event is efficacious.
 
2012-12-16 06:56:44 PM  

d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.


Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

i48.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2012-12-16 06:57:46 PM  
Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?
 
2012-12-16 06:58:06 PM  

d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.


The problem is that you're working with a constitutionally-enshrined right, and putting obstacles, like a literacy test, before one is allowed to exercise that right has been frowned upon.
 
2012-12-16 06:58:53 PM  

GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?


And they also used fresh fruit as their weapon.
 
2012-12-16 06:59:24 PM  

The Name: Phony_Soldier: demaL-demaL-yeH: justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

Armed non-cops rushing into the scene of a mass shooting only creates more casualties - each other and confused police. Handguns make better cudgels than they make firearms.

justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

Then a situation in which he would need his gun to protect his family must be unreal, because any situation requiring the drawing of a gun is unreal, by his own definition.


Maybe it's a personal "shiat hitting the fan" event. Like being held up. For me personally that would be "shiat hitting the fan".

Then I guess it really depends on how "shiat hitting the fan" is defined.
 
2012-12-16 06:59:29 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

i48.photobucket.com


Which of those would have prevented this incident?
 
2012-12-16 06:59:56 PM  

Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.


The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.
 
2012-12-16 07:00:31 PM  

Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.


That's completely false.
 
2012-12-16 07:01:09 PM  
And another thing pissing me off right now is the evening news, milking this tragedy for all it's worth, right now running a list of the dead, with sad pictures and sad music. Jeez, don't these assholes realize the crazies are watching, and thinking, "Wow, what an AWESOME way of making myself notorious! Look at all the attention I could get!"
 
2012-12-16 07:01:30 PM  

siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.


Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.
 
2012-12-16 07:01:36 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.

Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]


Again, the problem is that we have taken a dim view in the past on a literacy test before someone is allowed to exercise a right.
 
2012-12-16 07:02:09 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.


It's been a while...but in class they mentioned that in Arkansas less than 95% of CCW permit holder had ever drawn their weapons. And less than 5% of the ones that did actually fired the weapon. I don't have citations for that...I just remember that being said.

Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?
 
2012-12-16 07:03:40 PM  

justinsmith354: Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?


The latter.
 
2012-12-16 07:04:08 PM  

justinsmith354: demaL-demaL-yeH: Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.

It's been a while...but in class they mentioned that in Arkansas less than 95% of CCW permit holder had ever drawn their weapons. And less than 5% of the ones that did actually fired the weapon. I don't have citations for that...I just remember that being said.

Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?


Less than 95%? That's a pretty big range, ace. Again, not helping with my perception of Arkansas.
 
2012-12-16 07:04:35 PM  
I'm surprised Republicans turned out to be chickens. Completely and utterly shocked
 
2012-12-16 07:04:35 PM  

Pincy: GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?

And they also used fresh fruit as their weapon.


What about pointed sticks?
 
2012-12-16 07:05:40 PM  

mark12A: And another thing pissing me off right now is the evening news, milking this tragedy for all it's worth, right now running a list of the dead, with sad pictures and sad music. Jeez, don't these assholes realize the crazies are watching, and thinking, "Wow, what an AWESOME way of making myself notorious! Look at all the attention I could get!"


they are talking about the victims, not the idiot who shot them.

Does it make you uncomfortable to see what the lack of real gun control can cause?
 
2012-12-16 07:05:40 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: d23: Brian Ryanberger: vygramul: jehovahs witness protection: vygramul: teto85: May they all get an enema from a Bushmaster as it unleashes a three second burst.

I wonder where people go to fire a full-auto weapon for practice. The only place I know in VA that allows it is the NRA shooting range. Then again, there aren't many people with the license required to have that kind of weapon anyway.

You could join the Army and get paid to fire full auto weapons.

Don't even have to join the army. Working as a civilian offers such opportunities. The license to own one privately is prohibitively expensive - like $2k/yr.

That philosophy should be extended to all anti-personnel firearms. Make it prohibitively expensive. Offer a 50k no questions asked tax free reward per gun when you turn somebody in.

What about just making the bar the same as driving a car. You have to take a written test to drive a car for God's sake. In most states you have to take a practical test. Make them jump through some hoops so at least they have to seem to be responsible citizens.

There isn't a 100% solution to this, though. We need to kick the people that will only accept the 100% solution ("Criminals don't pay attention to laws!" and "That's won't solve all the problems!") and kick them in the nuts and let the adults get to work on improving the situation.

Even better - one of the common arguments against gun control is "Cars kill people too!"

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]


As to your image there are only two differences: Liability insurance isn't required, and on long arms training isn't required in CT: That being said In MA it is.

In order to own a pistol, you do have a written and a practical test. Your licence expires every 5 years, Every time you purchase a firearm the ATF is made aware of it by phone with the serial # caliber and length of barrel.


As far as "health requirements" there is no such thing for driving an automobile, that is patently false. If you can pass the eye exam you can drive. Oh and you only have to pass that exam once, you have to pass the ATF transfer test and the FBI background check every time you purchase or renew your license.
 
2012-12-16 07:05:41 PM  

The Name: justinsmith354: Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?

The latter.


And when that day does come after busybodies have made it illegal for the law abiding to carry, it's you're fault for being wherever you were. You were just asking for it.
 
2012-12-16 07:05:42 PM  

justinsmith354: WTF am I reading? Why in the hell would I rush into a scene of a mass shooting? I can assure if I'm still alive after I hear shots in a mass shooting, my old high school 40 yard dash speed would suddenly re appear. And if I'm with my family....I'm pushing them at the same speed.
Again, not every CCW permit holder is a Zimmerman. I can assure you.



You just confirmed that there is no justification for your concealed carry.
And just one Zimmerman is one too many.


toomuchwhargarbl: I'm sure you're an expert on mass shooting events, so I'll not question your sentiment that wearing a police uniform is the only way an armed interdiction into such an event is efficacious.



I'm a veteran. I still fire expert.
I've made no secret of these facts.
I've made no secret of my opinions, either: Pistols are a stupid choice of firearm. Concealed pistols are an even more stupid choice.
Now you have a choice: Would you care to rephrase that or simply wipe the egg off your face and go back under your bridge?
 
2012-12-16 07:06:04 PM  

coeyagi: justinsmith354: demaL-demaL-yeH: Phony_Soldier:
justinsmith354 doesn't say anything about rushing into the scene of a mass shooting. He said just wants to protect himself and is family.

You are correct, so let's edit it appropriately.

justinsmith354: The scenario I plan and think about has nothing to do with being a hero...but more of a "I'm for sure handing over my wallet, keys, or what ever someone wants if there isn't a serious threat to me or my family" type of scenario. Being a hero is dumb. The amount of shiat needed to hit a fan should be unreal for any CCW person to draw his/her weapon. Anyone who speaks to the contrary is a fool.

Read what you wrote there.
You have absolutely zero reason for concealed carry.

/Thank you very much.

It's been a while...but in class they mentioned that in Arkansas less than 95% of CCW permit holder had ever drawn their weapons. And less than 5% of the ones that did actually fired the weapon. I don't have citations for that...I just remember that being said.

Are you suggesting I should pull my weapon when I'm looked at in the wrong manner, or that the time for me to do so WILL NEVER COME, and I have no reason to carry at all?

Less than 95%? That's a pretty big range, ace. Again, not helping with my perception of Arkansas.


LMAO...5%...95% HAVE NEVER. I chuckled when I saw what I put.
 
2012-12-16 07:06:32 PM  

GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?


No.
This is the thread where we wonder why politicians didn't turn up to be publicity slandered as baby killers by a left wing rag.

/It just doesn't make sense...
 
2012-12-16 07:06:43 PM  

The AlbinoSaxon: tenpoundsofcheese:

dems are all about appealing to emotion instead of logic, so that won't work.

-2/10 Are you even trying?


no, not trying at all...yet you were the one who got hooked, not me.
 
2012-12-16 07:07:42 PM  
vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.


no, that is pretty much provable.
 
2012-12-16 07:08:18 PM  
way south: GoldSpider: Hai guys!

Is this the thread where we discuss how almost every mass murderer in the past few decades either had a history of mental illness and/or on some kind of mind-altering psychiatric drugs?

No.
This is the thread where we wonder why politicians didn't turn up to be publicity slandered as baby killers by a left wing rag.

/It just doesn't make sense...


Telling the truth isn't slander. Unless you're in Bizzaro Republican World.
 
2012-12-16 07:08:28 PM  

Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.


And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?
 
2012-12-16 07:08:29 PM  

justinsmith354: I have no reason to carry at all?


*DING-DING-DING-DING-DING*
We have a winner, farkdom!
 
2012-12-16 07:08:45 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH:
toomuchwhargarbl: I'm sure you're an expert on mass shooting events, so I'll not question your sentiment that wearing a police uniform is the only way an armed interdiction into such an event is efficacious.


I'm a veteran. I still fire expert.
I've made no secret of these facts.
I've made no secret of my opinions, either: Pistols are a stupid choice of firearm. Concealed pistols are an even more stupid choice.
Now you have a choice: Would you care to rephrase that or simply wipe the egg off your face and go back under your bridge?


I'm also a veteran. So what? And I shot expert, after I had lazer surgery on my eyes on Ft Bragg in 2001, so what?

Pistols are a defensive firearm that allow me, the concealed carrier to control an area around myself in all directions against hostile persons for around 30 yards. They are the tool to carry for self defense. Your opinions are retarded and your "egg" is just nonsensical chest beating.

Moron.
 
2012-12-16 07:09:08 PM  

chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.


I thought he was joking/trolling.
 
2012-12-16 07:10:27 PM  

NewportBarGuy: MisterTweak: I realize absolutely nothing is going to change on gun laws

Democrats remember what happened to them after they passed the assault weapons ban. They took a heavy beating. As long as the Republicans control the House, they know they can propose a new Assault Weapons Ban, but that it will never have enough votes to pass. So, I'm assuming that is what they will try. Hell, the Republicans might even find a way to let it pass by voting present or something and allow the Democrats to lose all the purple areas. They could play it like: "This is what the Democrat Party gave you America. They took your guns. Do you trust them to protect your children?"

I'm sure that it will be highly political and not at all focused on how to reduce these kinds of horrific events.


All the Dems have to do is vote against such a bill, and claim the Repubs don't want to protect you.
/would never happen, but a guy can dream
 
2012-12-16 07:10:28 PM  

chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.


It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.
 
2012-12-16 07:11:50 PM  

siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.

And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?


It's not wrong, if you are the president, vice president, governor, mayor and sole resident of the United Republic of Siphra.
 
2012-12-16 07:13:05 PM  

siphra:
And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?


Look, we all know that group punishment is immoral. But these are white male "Gun nuts" we're talking about. And if every one of them isn't disarmed. Millions of children will die.
 
2012-12-16 07:14:09 PM  

toomuchwhargarbl: siphra:
And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

Look, we all know that group punishment is immoral. But these are white male "Gun nuts" we're talking about. And if every one of them isn't disarmed. Millions of children will die.


I fear it might be too late.
 
2012-12-16 07:15:15 PM  

mittromneysdog: UConnOIFVeteran: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: UConnOIFVeteran: I would feel a lot better

Well, that's the important thing.

Since you seem to have a problem with making inferences, I'll clarify by saying that my sister would be more safe in a school with secured firearms able to be accessed by trained and responsible adults in the event of an emergency than she would be relying on wishes, dreams, paperwork and happy thoughts from people like you were an attack to happen at her school.

Pincy: UConnOIFVeteran: and keep guns secured in their desks

Because there is no way a student would ever be able to get access to a gun secured in their desk. Everyone knows that desks are impenetrable.

Right. Because I'm sure that there's no way the government could get a desk with provisions for securing a firearm that could only be accessed by the teacher. We should stick to simpler undertakings like manned spaceflight and cloning large organisms.

Pay attention folks: gun rights advocates want to live in a world where kindergarten teachers are forced to pack heat to keep their kids safe. We can live in that world. Or, we can begin discussing repeal or amendment of the 2nd Amendment.


mittromneysdog: Pincy: You did give one suggestion about having people armed at schools.

Just to be clear, the suggestions from gun rights advocates have been kindergarten teachers packing heat. Kindergarten teachers. Packing heat.

Repeal or amendment. That's where the conversation must go from here.


mittromneysdog: Lionel Mandrake: mittromneysdog: GhostFish: We need to destigmatize mental health care, make it more readily available, and reduce the negative side-effects of seeking help.

The sad irony being that forbidding people who've had mental health treatment from possessing firearms (which I've heard discussed on TV) increases the stigma and negative side-effects of seeking help.

Never heard that advocated. That's stupid.

That seems to be the direction the conversation is going. Which is sad, because the discussion needs to turn in a totally different direction: repealing the 2nd Amendment.


Lionel Mandrake: Would you like to buy a bridge? Some quality real estate in sunny Florida, maybe?

Clutch2013: Or we could do something about health care and mental health care, and maybe also deal with the fact that the people who are supposed to be the chief custodians of our gun culture are instead some of the Republican Party's biggest shills. I bet further reforms to health care and a complete overhaul/replacement of the NRA would yield better results in the long-term. Hell, maybe even short-term, too.


At least mittromneysdog isn′t one of those gun-grabbers who tries to claim that the Second Amendment doesn′t really say nor mean what it clearly and plainly says and means. I can respect the position that the Second Amendment may be outdated, have outlived its usefulness, etc., but not the usual claims that it only applies to law enforcement or the National Guard or even the military because of the word ‶militia. I disagree with that position, but I can respect it.
 
2012-12-16 07:17:34 PM  
I sleep better knowing those kids would be much less dead if he'd used the pistols or shotgun instead.
 
2012-12-16 07:18:10 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: You just confirmed that there is no justification for your concealed carry.
And just one Zimmerman is one too many.


demaL-demaL-yeH: I'm a veteran. I still fire expert.
I've made no secret of these facts.
I've made no secret of my opinions, either: Pistols are a stupid choice of firearm. Concealed pistols are an even more stupid choice.


Oh I get it...so what does someone have to say for you to bless them, or give themselves "justification" for a CCW permit. It's irresponsible for anyone in my opinion to think of themselves as a protector of anyone but themselves or their family if they are carrying a CW. That being said, it's easy to say what your going to do or how your going to react to a situation, but until that time comes (God forbid), you won't know. I'd be lying if I said I don't think about "scenarios". Some drunk dirty bum holding a half ass shank, slurryly asking for my money while trembling from DT's isn't a scenario I see myself blowing the guys head off. Sorry if that doesn't give me "justification" for my CCW.

I'm also a veteran! 11B 2/504PIR 82nd ABN 99-02. Thank you for your service BTW.
 
2012-12-16 07:18:46 PM  

Phony_Soldier: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

I thought he was joking/trolling.


nope, just incredibly stupid. The IQ of your average gun nut is usually about the same as the caliber of his favorite weapon.
 
2012-12-16 07:19:23 PM  

GoldSpider: I sleep better knowing those kids would be much less dead if he'd used the pistols or shotgun instead.


Not less dead, just less dead people.
 
2012-12-16 07:19:46 PM  

Phony_Soldier: toomuchwhargarbl: siphra:
And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

Look, we all know that group punishment is immoral. But these are white male "Gun nuts" we're talking about. And if every one of them isn't disarmed. Millions of children will die.

I fear it might be too late.


http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/thinkofthechildren.jpg
 
2012-12-16 07:20:08 PM  
 
2012-12-16 07:20:19 PM  

chuckufarlie: Not less dead, just less dead people.


How do you know?
 
2012-12-16 07:20:27 PM  

coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.


of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.
 
2012-12-16 07:20:36 PM  

coeyagi: No, no, no... the talking point is that it will reduce gun violence if we arm everyone. Because somewhere in Georgia, it actually did. It must have been so tough convincing everyone in that town to get a gun. It would be like asking them if they want to f*ck their cousin in the back of their Chevy.


I facepalmed so hard this morning: the top story in our local news is that gun sales have skyrocketed due to the recent spike in crime and violence in our podunk backwater shiathole.
 
2012-12-16 07:21:39 PM  

justinsmith354: It's irresponsible for anyone in my opinion to think of themselves as a protector of anyone but themselves or their family if they are carrying a CW.


Wow, you must be really important if you feel like you need to carry a gun around, then.

justinsmith354: I'd be lying if I said I don't think about "scenarios". Some drunk dirty bum holding a half ass shank, slurryly asking for my money while trembling from DT's isn't a scenario I see myself blowing the guys head off.


Aaaaaaaaand the paranoia starts to flood out.
 
2012-12-16 07:22:24 PM  
Just curious (fun little academic exercise):

Would you, as a gun owner, give up your right to bear arms today if there was an absolute guarantee that no one would be murdered by guns?

It's voluntary. And it would require everyone to do so. Fun little prisoner's dilemma. And... go.
 
2012-12-16 07:23:00 PM  

chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


I can no longer tell the trolls from the non-trolls. Time for bed.
 
2012-12-16 07:23:17 PM  

The Name: Wow, you must be really important if you feel like you need to carry a gun around, then.


I'm very important. Just ask my 11 year old and my 6 year old.

The Name: Aaaaaaaaand the paranoia starts to flood out.


I don't know what this means.
 
2012-12-16 07:23:57 PM  

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Not less dead, just less dead people.

How do you know?


What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.

With a revolver, it takes a few seconds to reload. One of the teachers could have knocked him down while he was doing so.
 
2012-12-16 07:24:01 PM  

chuckufarlie: coeyagi: chuckufarlie: vygramul: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

That's completely false.

no, that is pretty much provable.

It's neither provable nor disprovable. I am not going to go into a long explanation as to why, anyone of any political persuasion can come up with reasons why.

of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


All 20 of them? That is what the original poster said. So.... no.
 
2012-12-16 07:24:15 PM  
uh, no shiat subby? After each shooting, the wharrrgbl is "Gun nuts use tragedy to advance pro-gun agenda!" NOT doing that this time is the right move.
 
2012-12-16 07:24:26 PM  

chuckufarlie: of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.


You know very little about guns. And "proof".
 
2012-12-16 07:24:47 PM  

justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.


Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.
 
2012-12-16 07:25:18 PM  
It would be nice if we could give the families/community our support while they grieve their loss before we start the poo flinging.
 
2012-12-16 07:25:34 PM  

The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.


LMAO...Got it.
 
2012-12-16 07:25:52 PM  

chuckufarlie: What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.


That's one possibility. Another is that he could have shot just as many people or more with the pistols. It isn't any harder to shoot a bunch of people with a semi-auto pistol than it is a semi-auto rifle.
 
2012-12-16 07:26:01 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Pokey.Clyde: Oh, look. Yet another gun thread filled with people who know little to nothing about guns telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our legal, constitutionally protected firearms.

I don't know enough about guns to really even suggest what to limit, restrict, or change.

Where would you start? Would you change it at all? How will we measure success? Only one mass shooting a year?


Here you go
 
2012-12-16 07:27:15 PM  

The Name:
Wow, you must be really important if you feel like you need to carry a gun around, then.


God forbid someone should think they're anything other than a filthy pleb who has no responsibility to protect their immediate family from predation while The Name is around. That's why we have police citizen. If confronted with other violent and/or predatory males please remain calm, curl into a ball, and whimper softly until the police arrive to provide your children with state approved protection and your wife with state sanctioned manditory sexual assault counseling.
 
2012-12-16 07:27:31 PM  

minoridiot: It would be nice if we could give the families/community our support while they grieve their loss engage in self-congratulating, self-indulgent, meaningless gestures before we start the poo flinging.


FTFY. Ready to quit Facebook after this weekend.
 
2012-12-16 07:27:50 PM  

The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.


OH wait...I get it now. I'm paranoid for not seeing myself pulling my CW in a situation where everyone can most likely just walk away and not get hurt. GOT IT!
 
2012-12-16 07:27:57 PM  

chuckufarlie: GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: Not less dead, just less dead people.

How do you know?

What part of "rapid fire" do you not understand? He shot 26 people multiple times. With the weapon he used, the thing that made the number 26 was that he could not find person 27. With a slower weapon, teachers would have more time to hide some of those 26 targets.

With a revolver, it takes a few seconds to reload. One of the teachers could have knocked him down while he was doing so.


Here you go

Glad you made the revolver concession, because my proposal doesn't cover them (The definitions set in the NFA cause that, I'm not intentionally leaving them out)
 
2012-12-16 07:28:07 PM  

GoldSpider: chuckufarlie: of course it is provable, give him two pistols or a bolt action rifle and the number of dead would be much lower.

You know very little about guns. And "proof".


I have been around rifles and pistols my entire life. And somewhere along the way I realized that there a lot of people in this country that do not have the intelligence to own and use guns.

As for proof, Einstein, the only way to truly proof this would be to get a school full of kids and shoot them. I am sure that a gun nut would have no problem with that because that right to own any weapon you want is very, very important.

It is also totally outdated and pointless.
 
2012-12-16 07:28:30 PM  

coeyagi: Just curious (fun little academic exercise):

Would you, as a gun owner, give up your right to bear arms today if there was an absolute guarantee that no one would be murdered by guns?

It's voluntary. And it would require everyone to do so. Fun little prisoner's dilemma. And... go.


Killed or murdered? Also could they still be shot but they just wouldn't die? Would it be like that last season of Torchwood? Would we have hordes of people with bullet holes just stumbling around because they couldn't die? Is that was is going to start the zombie Apocalypse? Because if that is so then hell no. I will never subject the human race to a zombie apocalypse....
 
2012-12-16 07:29:13 PM  

Sgt Otter: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

...that would be the M4 that is nearly impossible for civilians to obtain due to its burst-fire capability, and being categorized as a short-barreled rifle.

/pedant


Colt sells their civilian 16" semi-auto version and actually roll marks it M4.

impactguns.comView Full Size


pedant too
 
2012-12-16 07:29:18 PM  

James F. Campbell: coeyagi: No, no, no... the talking point is that it will reduce gun violence if we arm everyone. Because somewhere in Georgia, it actually did. It must have been so tough convincing everyone in that town to get a gun. It would be like asking them if they want to f*ck their cousin in the back of their Chevy.

I facepalmed so hard this morning: the top story in our local news is that gun sales have skyrocketed due to the recent spike in crime and violence in our podunk backwater shiathole.


Guns are collectible.
The law abiding are clamoring for a new law to abide by, and the only assured result is the value of firearms will multiply.

Your political stripes dont matter, You'd be an idiot not to buy now.

/Its like not wanting to buy 80's apple stock because you hate hipsters.
/I saw a guy buying a stack of pmags for a rifle he doesn't even own.
/so much as a leaf drops and his investment gets a hefty return.
 
2012-12-16 07:29:25 PM  

KidneyStone: NewportBarGuy: One exception? Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) told Fox News Sunday that he believed more guns are the answer to violence in schools.

"I wish to god she had had an M4 in her office," he said of Sandy Hook Elementary School principal Dawn Hochsprung, who was killed in the shooting.

Louie, you are the Prince of Derptown.

In case you didn't notice, not having a rifle didn't work out so well. But who's to say having a rifle would have made a difference?

I can say one thing: you can't win a raffle without having a ticket


It didn't work out so well for mother of the guy who killed her with her own weapons and then used them to shoot up a school either.
 
2012-12-16 07:29:42 PM  

justinsmith354: The Name: justinsmith354: I don't know what this means.

Yeah, well, you're from Arkansas.

OH wait...I get it now. I'm paranoid for not seeing myself pulling my CW in a situation where everyone can most likely just walk away and not get hurt. GOT IT!


No, you're paranoid for dreaming up those situations in the first place.
 
2012-12-16 07:30:46 PM  

coeyagi: siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban were allowed to still be in force, those 20 innocent children would still be alive. Hope you're all proud of yourselves, gun nuts.

The bushmaster isn't an assault weapon. It is a small caliber semi-automatic rifle, The only difference between it and any other semi-auto is looks, it has ergonomic grips, because god forbid someone shooting might want to be comfortable doing so.

Ya, the last thing you want is to be uncomfortable when you are killing people.

And how many people am I supposed to have killed, I currently own 6 different guns, need to make sure I get my minimum gun owner quota in.

I shoot regularly, and if you spend an hour or so at a range, you know what a difference the weight, and design of the weapon makes. I have never killed anyone, so tell me why it is wrong for me to want my firearms to be more user friendly?

It's not wrong, if you are the president, vice president, governor, mayor and sole resident of the United Republic of Siphra.


Have you ever had a rational thought? Seriously, the comfort of my firearms hurts you or these poor children how? What if he had gone in with a Semi-auto BAR variant, what would your argument be then? If it hadn't been sporterized, but rather had traditional features, what would you say then?

Be honest: YOU don't think anyone should have guns, except the police and the military. The rest of us are supposed to live in your utopia while ignoring ours.

World-wide data doesn't support your views, the only thing you have is your 'feelings' on the matter. Truth be told I don't care what you feel. There are 80,000,000 legal owners, there are 9000 crimes, of those less than 2% per year with a running average are carried out by legal owners. You are telling me that 80,000,000 people need to pay the price because there are 9,000 a*holes out there?
 
2012-12-16 07:30:46 PM  

toomuchwhargarbl: Pistols are a defensive firearm that allow me, the concealed carrier to control an area around myself in all directions against hostile persons for around 30 yards.


Bull.
Shiat.

They are the tool to carry for self defense.

Aluminum baseball bat and shotgun are far better choices.
Hell, an old-fashioned e-tool or a walking stick is a better choice.

Your opinions are retarded and your "egg" is just nonsensical chest beating.

The real-life effective range of a pistol, practically speaking, is around 18 feet. Read the report - in real life, cops have a 38% chance of hitting what they're shooting at when it's within six feet and a 17% chance of hitting what they're shooting at within 21 feet when they use pistols.

/And my baseball bat won't wound innocent bystanders, either, maroon.
//Now go wash your face.
 
2012-12-16 07:30:57 PM  

siphra: Pincy: siphra: Flying Lasagna Monster: If the assault weapons ban wer