If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Billings Gazette)   Acre by acre, two billionaire brothers are quietly buying up the state of Montana   (billingsgazette.com) divider line 164
    More: Interesting, Golden Valley, wildlife management, brothers  
•       •       •

35753 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2012 at 4:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



164 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-12-16 04:04:14 PM
OMGZ people with money buying LAND

STOP THE PRESSES
 
2012-12-16 04:30:13 PM
Is it part of some nefarious scheme to outsource the entire state to China? No? Then what's the problem?
 
2012-12-16 04:30:47 PM
Whatever. Billionaires, regardless of "old money" or "new money" got to be where they are on the backs of others.
Then they find out how to pay zero taxes, leaving the average person to bear the load.
Fark 'em.
 
2012-12-16 04:32:10 PM
Forgot this: Why is this greenlit??. Bah.
 
2012-12-16 04:56:24 PM
Ah, the good old upward redistribution of wealth.
 
2012-12-16 04:56:51 PM
1) Buy up huge swaths of land and ranches
2)Wait for the railroad to build all though your property
3)PROFIT like it's the 1900's!
 
2012-12-16 04:57:58 PM
Welcome to the 1%. While you are evicted and starving, they are feeding off the fat of the land.
Time for a goddam revolution.
 
2012-12-16 04:58:03 PM

Apos: Is it part of some nefarious scheme to outsource the entire state to China? No? Then what's the problem?


The problem is that some low-level journalist is trying to make a career for himself by turning a non-issue into a major breaking scandal. People buying land? I am shocked and appalled!
 
2012-12-16 05:01:16 PM
I pray Jesus Christ blesses them both with malignant anal cancer and that they die painfully as a result.
 
2012-12-16 05:02:45 PM
Another landowner the Wilks brothers have bought out is Theodore Roosevelt IV

He must have done shot all the baby bears.
 
2012-12-16 05:04:13 PM
... with the exception of a small strangely-shaped portion of the map, in front of which their underling constantly stands.

yafh.com
 
2012-12-16 05:07:44 PM

EVERYBODY PANIC: Apos: Is it part of some nefarious scheme to outsource the entire state to China? No? Then what's the problem?

The problem is that some low-level journalist is trying to make a career for himself by turning a non-issue into a major breaking scandal. People buying land? I am shocked and appalled!


a whole .27% of the state!! Subby was told there'd be no math, apparently
 
2012-12-16 05:07:51 PM

sminkypinky: Time for a goddam revolution.


To stop people from buying land that is for sale?
 
2012-12-16 05:07:52 PM
That is the worst mobile website I have seen in a long time.
 
2012-12-16 05:08:16 PM

sminkypinky: Welcome to the 1%. While you are evicted and starving, they are feeding off the fat of the land.
Time for a goddam revolution.


Lol. How dare these guys use the money they earned to buy land from other rich guys in arms
Length transactions!! Outrage!
 
2012-12-16 05:08:26 PM
ben cartwright owned 600,000 acres on the shores of lake tahoe.
BONANZA

oh. and he even got the tv indians to say he was a heap good fair white man to all indians.
 
2012-12-16 05:11:41 PM

imbrial: EVERYBODY PANIC: Apos: Is it part of some nefarious scheme to outsource the entire state to China? No? Then what's the problem?

The problem is that some low-level journalist is trying to make a career for himself by turning a non-issue into a major breaking scandal. People buying land? I am shocked and appalled!

a whole .27% of the state!! Subby was told there'd be no math, apparently


OMG! You didn't have to toss in the numbers. I can barely count to potato, and now you tell me that they bought up THAT MUCH land? Noboby owns that much land. Aside from Ted Turner. But he's adored by the whiners, so he's okay.
 
2012-12-16 05:13:03 PM
It's obvious. They're trying to corner the dental floss market.
 
2012-12-16 05:13:43 PM
the only reason to have a lot of money is to help in acquiring access to
shirtoid.com
 
2012-12-16 05:14:51 PM

Ron Mexico's Revenge: sminkypinky: Time for a goddam revolution.

To stop people from buying land that is for sale?


Well I guess that they could just take it out of the bank and buy a bunch of wheelbarrows full of gold and hoard it in a vault somewhere offshore but that's not going to help anyone here. By buying land here they're going to paying taxes not only on the purchase but on the land itself on a yearly basis through property taxes.

I find it funny that people like that complain when "The Rich" move money offshore to avoid paying their fair share of taxes and also complain when they use their money to buy something that can never be moved offshore. They have a serious case of class envy and should be ignored because of that.
 
2012-12-16 05:15:02 PM

bearded clamorer: It's obvious. They're trying to corner the dental floss market.


Then they can be dental floss tycoons.
 
2012-12-16 05:15:48 PM
What the frack are they going to do with all that land?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 05:16:06 PM
They will be whining about property tax next. You heard it here first, folks.
 
2012-12-16 05:18:58 PM

unlikely: OMGZ people with money buying LAND

STOP THE PRESSES


It does make a difference to the definition of democracy Land ownership is a serious issue and fundamental to civil rights. If you don't understand why, then you probably do not have much business having an opinion about anything in politics, I am sad to say.
 
2012-12-16 05:19:23 PM

Radioactive Ass: I find it funny that people like that complain when "The Rich" move money offshore to avoid paying their fair share of taxes and also complain when they use their money to buy something that can never be moved offshore.


Not only that, but they pay a bunch of taxes on it and don't really need any services so it's quite a bargain for everyone else. You would also think they would be happy that someone is buying land and paying all kinds of transfer fees and taxes to the local/county government.
 
2012-12-16 05:20:55 PM
wasn't this part of the plot of the first Christopher Reeve Superman movie?
 
2012-12-16 05:21:54 PM
www.yuchtar.com

Would also have liked to have bought Montana.
 
2012-12-16 05:22:52 PM
Did you all miss the part where they own a hydro-fracking company?

I'm not entirely against *some* development in Montana, because driving through it last summer was pretty eery. It's very very vacant land, other than cows and hamlets. But it's also beautiful country as long as you're not down to your last gallon of gas and desperately searching for a station (no this did not happen to us, but it could have easily). A medium population/infrastructure boom wouldn't be too terrible, I just hope they're not planning to turn it all into an oilfield =/
 
2012-12-16 05:23:09 PM

d23: They will be whining about property tax next. You heard it here first, folks.


The only people who get tax breaks on their property taxes are those who negotiate a deal when they are building thing like factories, malls or some other job and\or tax generating venue where they will be making more money for the county\state than what the land sitting as is would have. Usually it's a good deal for everyone involved.
 
2012-12-16 05:25:34 PM

Mark Galvan: What the frack are they going to do with all that land?


My first thought too.
 
2012-12-16 05:26:23 PM
Did you ever stop to wonder why they have billions, and the US is in trillions of debt and the population is living thru a Depression?
 
2012-12-16 05:26:33 PM
But Lowry, the Wilkses' neighbor at the N Bar, has no problem with the many land acquisitions by his new neighbors and sees the brothers as more friendly and open than the previous owner.

"I figured that was their business," he said of the land buys and rumors of fracking plans. "If they're buying up land, they can do what they want with it."


I wish more people had that kind of attitude.
 
2012-12-16 05:27:36 PM
These guys?

ffbsccn.files.wordpress.com

/dnrtfa
 
2012-12-16 05:30:10 PM

sminkypinky: Did you ever stop to wonder why they have billions, and the US is in trillions of debt and the population is living thru a Depression?


Because the government doesn't know how to stop spending money.

sminkypinky: Welcome to the 1%. While you are evicted and starving, they are feeding off the fat of the land.
Time for a goddam revolution.


The nerve of those rich people, paying most of the taxes in this country. Somebody should do something.
 
2012-12-16 05:31:41 PM
these guys will be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. huge tracts of land teeming with fish and cattle; isolated, low-population location; skilled in fishing and ranching; own lots of guns.
 
2012-12-16 05:31:47 PM

leevis: sminkypinky: Did you ever stop to wonder why they have billions, and the US is in trillions of debt and the population is living thru a Depression?

Because the government doesn't know how to stop spending money.


Do you know what happens when large segments of everybody stops spending money?
 
2012-12-16 05:32:39 PM
Every time someone cries "overcrowding", I point to Montana. It's slightly bigger than Finland, and has less than 800,000 people (Finland has 5.2 million). We also have the Dakota's, Wyoming and other states that are barely tapped.

Everybody just needs to spread the fark out.
 
2012-12-16 05:36:09 PM
as long as they are fracking their own land and poisoning their own water who cares. yeah the land will lie fallow for a generation or two but it's not like there are lots of folks lined up to use it anyway.
 
2012-12-16 05:36:16 PM

Sarah Jessica Farker: wasn't this part of the plot of the first Christopher Reeve Superman movie?


Otisburg?

OTISBURG?!?!?!?!?
 
2012-12-16 05:40:10 PM
bearded clamorer: It's obvious. They're trying to corner the dental floss market.

Then they can be dental floss tycoons.


Are they going to raise it up, wax it down, put it in little white boxes they can sell in town?
 
2012-12-16 05:41:09 PM

leevis: The nerve of those rich people, paying most of the taxes in this country. Somebody should do something.


The reason the rich are paying such a large percentage of the tax is because the middle class is shrinking. Why is the middle class shrinking while corporate profits are through the roof? Because when the rich get this rich, the middle class suffers.

Solutions? Remove corporate tax loopholes that let massive corporations like GE pay ZERO tax, and Microsoft, Google, and Apple send most of their profits overseas.

ALL income needs to be taxed as what it is, income. No special rate of tax for ""carried interest", capital gains or dividends. It's all money, it all spends, it's all income. It should all be taxed as income.

We could also do with a few more tax brackets. The very top personal income tax bracket starts (iirc) at around $380k. We need a million dollar and up bracket, a ten million and up bracket, a 100 million and up bracket, and a billion dollar and up bracket. Even if it just added a point or two at each level, it would be hugely beneficial.
 
2012-12-16 05:43:58 PM

hbk72777: Every time someone cries "overcrowding", I point to Montana. It's slightly bigger than Finland, and has less than 800,000 people (Finland has 5.2 million). We also have the Dakota's, Wyoming and other states that are barely tapped.

Everybody just needs to spread the fark out.


Nah, we passed the 1M mark a couple years ago. Yes, the entire state. Shut up.

/Don't short me, bro.
 
2012-12-16 05:44:24 PM
Otisburg mentioned...good

Yellowstone 'calamity' imminent?

Paging Henry Cavill...
 
2012-12-16 05:44:30 PM

ladyfortuna: It's very very vacant land, other than cows and hamlets. But it's also beautiful country as long as you're not down to your last gallon of gas and desperately searching for a station (no this did not happen to us, but it could have easily).


I was moving from DC to Seattle and driving through Nowhere, Montana when my brother called to say our father had died. I pulled over to the side of the freeway and wept, and then got back on the road because what else was I going to do? An hour later a tire on the trailer blew out. We had no cell phone reception and were in the middle of ranch country. We drove slowly for 30 miles before we hit a widening of the road. Two good ol' boys were able to jack the trailer up (they were used to working with heavy tractors) and got the tire switched out in 45 minutes.

Worst farking day of my life.
 
2012-12-16 05:47:18 PM

MooseUpNorth: leevis: sminkypinky: Did you ever stop to wonder why they have billions, and the US is in trillions of debt and the population is living thru a Depression?

Because the government doesn't know how to stop spending money.

Do you know what happens when large segments of everybody stops spending money?


The government raises taxes?
 
2012-12-16 05:47:33 PM

hbk72777: Every time someone cries "overcrowding", I point to Montana. It's slightly bigger than Finland, and has less than 800,000 people (Finland has 5.2 million). We also have the Dakota's, Wyoming and other states that are barely tapped.

Everybody just needs to spread the fark out.


fark that, it's cold and/or windy there
 
2012-12-16 05:47:44 PM

RandomRandom: Microsoft, Google, and Apple send most of their profits overseas.


Which is a huge part of the problem, actually. Thing is, your government winds up spending most of the money it handles domestically, which is a net positive for the economy. As do the middle class, who tend to live month to month. Again, that's a net positive for an economy.

But what your country is _really_ suffering over is the relative lack of manufacturing and the manufacturing jobs that leads to. _That_'s where value gets added, and where the economic growth is.
 
2012-12-16 05:50:30 PM

Mark Galvan: What the frack are they going to do with all that land?


Fracking may indeed be what they are planning to do.
 
2012-12-16 05:50:45 PM
Why bother with manufacturing real stuff when you have patent lawyers and bankers to create real wealth?
 
2012-12-16 05:50:46 PM

KidneyStone: Do you know what happens when large segments of everybody stops spending money?

The government raises taxes?


Economies work through the spending of money in a big cyclic web. A web which includes the government. It doesn't really matter who spends the money. It doesn't really matter why the money is spent. Just so it changes hands as often as possible.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 05:56:47 PM
That's 431 square miles, more than half the size of Silver Bow County.

That's 0.4 Rhode Islands.
 
2012-12-16 06:00:29 PM
But how well can those boys dance?
 
2012-12-16 06:01:45 PM
What is the property tax rate on undeveloped (or ranch land) in those areas?

/If their property tax rate is '0', then there's a problem...
 
2012-12-16 06:05:28 PM

Mike Chewbacca: ladyfortuna: It's very very vacant land, other than cows and hamlets. But it's also beautiful country as long as you're not down to your last gallon of gas and desperately searching for a station (no this did not happen to us, but it could have easily).

I was moving from DC to Seattle and driving through Nowhere, Montana when my brother called to say our father had died. I pulled over to the side of the freeway and wept, and then got back on the road because what else was I going to do? An hour later a tire on the trailer blew out. We had no cell phone reception and were in the middle of ranch country. We drove slowly for 30 miles before we hit a widening of the road. Two good ol' boys were able to jack the trailer up (they were used to working with heavy tractors) and got the tire switched out in 45 minutes.

Worst farking day of my life.


My condolences on both. Glad some locals helped you out though; I do find rural residents are usually quicker to stop and offer help than in cities.
 
2012-12-16 06:07:04 PM
Are they planning to become dental floss tycoons?
 
2012-12-16 06:10:00 PM

SlothB77: these guys will be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. huge tracts of land teeming with fish and cattle; isolated, low-population location; skilled in fishing and ranching; own lots of guns.


Hahahaha, yeah right. First off, that's prairie and there's almost no water out there. And if there are fish anywhere, they are stocked by the same evil government that is intruding on all our freedoms. And "skilled in fishing and ranching?" Fat farking chance. Every rich ranch owner I've ever heard of up here doesn't do anything except show up at his big house and throw parties for his droogs, while the cowboys, who are paid $1000 a month (and a trailer!), do all the actual work.
 
2012-12-16 06:11:02 PM

Kriggerel: But how well can those boys dance?


Diamond Jim? Is that you?
 
2012-12-16 06:13:15 PM
Hmm... I read it as two bright oil guys who realize that, thanks to the global warming resulting from burning the oil their fortunes have been built on, their native Texas will be all dessert soon. They are buying cheap land further north in the new Texas. I'm thinking of beating the rush and buying in the NWT.
 
2012-12-16 06:13:39 PM

Spiralmonkey: Mark Galvan: What the frack are they going to do with all that land?

My first thought too.


Weren't the righties saying they were going to go into compounds over their election butthurt?

Maybe this is what we're seeing.
 
2012-12-16 06:16:03 PM
I guess they're jealous of the king ranch?
 
2012-12-16 06:18:03 PM

MooseUpNorth: Do you know what happens when large segments of everybody stops spending money?


It interesting that there are two kinds of people.

1. Those that understand money is transactional medium.
2. Superstitious people that think money is a magical store of value.
 
2012-12-16 06:18:15 PM

rustypouch: Are they planning to become dental floss tycoons?


*shakes tiny fist.
 
2012-12-16 06:18:26 PM

nanim: What is the property tax rate on undeveloped (or ranch land) in those areas?

/If their property tax rate is '0', then there's a problem...


North Dakota voters recently voted to retain their property taxes. The reason there was doubt is because the state is fairly swimming in oil and gas tax revenues. Oil and gas revenues that exist solely because of the technology championed and financed by the brothers. Which is to say, they are responsible for much of North Dakota's tax revenue before they pay the first dollar in property taxes.
 
2012-12-16 06:23:20 PM

unlikely: OMGZ people with money buying LAND

STOP THE PRESSES


It's appalling. Almost like free-market capitalism WORKS.
 
2012-12-16 06:28:13 PM

MooseUpNorth: Economies work through the spending of money in a big cyclic web. A web which includes the government. It doesn't really matter who spends the money. It doesn't really matter why the money is spent. Just so it changes hands as often as possible.


No no. It does matter how money is spent. When you pay money, the money circulates. But the actual services and resources are expended. Further economic activity may arises from that, but it's not a sure thing. The services and resources my be wasted, or damage other parts of the economy. or they may increase it.

But the government is in many ways just another large economic unit. It's mostly an insurance company.
 
2012-12-16 06:28:21 PM

sminkypinky: Welcome to the 1%. While you are evicted and starving, they are feeding off the fat of the land.
Time for a goddam revolution.


YEA!

Oh, wait, I'm not evicted nor starving. Back to the football game.

Go Steelers!
 
2012-12-16 06:39:06 PM

RandomRandom: We could also do with a few more tax brackets. The very top personal income tax bracket starts (iirc) at around $380k. We need a million dollar and up bracket, a ten million and up bracket, a 100 million and up bracket, and a billion dollar and up bracket. Even if it just added a point or two at each level, it would be hugely beneficial.


It would barely make a dent.
 
2012-12-16 06:44:40 PM
These threads are always great for reminding me that irrational hatred of rich people by a large group of Americans isn't completely a strawman.
 
2012-12-16 06:45:41 PM
Only thing I care about is what they plan on doing with it.
 
2012-12-16 06:47:25 PM
Ahhem. Meh.
 
2012-12-16 06:51:16 PM

wcvanhorne: Hmm... I read it as two bright oil guys who realize that, thanks to the global warming resulting from burning the oil their fortunes have been built on, their native Texas will be all dessert soon. They are buying cheap land further north in the new Texas. I'm thinking of beating the rush and buying in the NWT.


You mean, like a chocolate eclair? Or bananas Foster?
 
2012-12-16 06:57:00 PM

mark12A: bearded clamorer: It's obvious. They're trying to corner the dental floss market.

Then they can be dental floss tycoons.

Are they going to raise it up, wax it down, put it in little white boxes they can sell in town?


No they'll ship it to China where they can get it waxed down at a fraction of the cost.
 
2012-12-16 07:04:45 PM

Curious: as long as they are fracking their own land and poisoning their own water who cares. yeah the land will lie fallow for a generation or two but it's not like there are lots of folks lined up to use it anyway.


The thing is that groundwater tends to flow - you'd pretty much have to buy up the entire state to ensure you're not poisoning the adjacent ranchers.
 
2012-12-16 07:06:01 PM

LargeCanine: But Lowry, the Wilkses' neighbor at the N Bar, has no problem with the many land acquisitions by his new neighbors and sees the brothers as more friendly and open than the previous owner.

"I figured that was their business," he said of the land buys and rumors of fracking plans. "If they're buying up land, they can do what they want with it."

I wish more people had that kind of attitude.


His tune will change if he starts to suffer ill consequences of his neighbor's activities.
 
2012-12-16 07:06:30 PM

Spiralmonkey: Mark Galvan: What the frack are they going to do with all that land?

My first thought too.



So check the public records for mineral rights associated with the land purchase.
 
2012-12-16 07:08:01 PM
img811.imageshack.us

Right wing extremists. They just think they own it.
 
2012-12-16 07:13:10 PM
Don't know why they want land in Montana.
When the south pole shifts to Kansas, its going to be real hard finding your way to Ohio with a compass.
 
2012-12-16 07:13:21 PM
LetTheButthurtFlow.jpg
 
2012-12-16 07:18:49 PM

Kriggerel: But how well can those boys dance?


FINALLY! Thank you,sir or madam.
 
2012-12-16 07:20:47 PM

phamwaa: wcvanhorne: Hmm... I read it as two bright oil guys who realize that, thanks to the global warming resulting from burning the oil their fortunes have been built on, their native Texas will be all dessert soon. They are buying cheap land further north in the new Texas. I'm thinking of beating the rush and buying in the NWT.

You mean, like a chocolate eclair? Or bananas Foster?


Baked Alaska, silly.

You know because of global warming...badabing.
 
2012-12-16 07:21:07 PM
First you get the stuff... then two rich guys buy me out...
cdn.cosbysweaters.com
 
2012-12-16 07:29:26 PM
Finally got through the BS and found out - not a good thing, if you are into local hunting, etc. These two guys are herding local hunting animals into sequestered bits of land, "allowing" the public to buy permits for hunting on specific bits of land, and considering the history of their fracking biz...it may be righteous but it just ain't hip.
 
2012-12-16 07:31:21 PM
What is really shocking is the real reason they are doing it.

They are planning to offer to relocate the entire State of Israel to the state of Montana in a bid to bring peace to the Middle East.
 
2012-12-16 07:37:11 PM

RandomRandom: We need a million dollar and up bracket, a ten million and up bracket, a 100 million and up bracket, and a billion dollar and up bracket. Even if it just added a point or two at each level, it would be hugely beneficial


No, we need to tax every dollar every time it changes hands - no exceptions, no loopholes. Then when the gov't wants to engage in social engineering, they should do it directly, by grants, publicly. Then we would see change, because the people would revolt. Waitin' for it to happen.

/will be waitin' a loooong time.
 
2012-12-16 07:37:40 PM
Good people, them frackers.
Need to buy some clean land for yourself after you're done destroying the rest of it.
 
2012-12-16 07:38:16 PM
'Twould be hilarious if after buying all that land, they can't do a damned thing with it 'cause they don't own the mineral rights to that land. In Montana, those are two separate deeds (maybe most everywhere else as well, for all I know).

My great-grandfather's old ranch in Montana was sold and resold many times over the decades, but I still own (inherited) the mineral rights to it.

/"Drill, baby, drill", but only on that patch of acreage. Keep the rest of Montana beautiful.
 
2012-12-16 07:42:26 PM

Radioactive Ass: d23: They will be whining about property tax next. You heard it here first, folks.

The only people who get tax breaks on their property taxes are those who negotiate a deal when they are building thing like factories, malls or some other job and\or tax generating venue where they will be making more money for the county\state than what the land sitting as is would have. Usually it's a good deal for everyone involved.


Research has pretty convincingly shown that the net benefit is very negative to communities that hand out tax breaks. It is, however, enormously beneficial to politically connection construction agencies, "consultant" nephews, and council members with reitre-and-hire agreements, and the savings more than make up for the loss from those parasites, so it will go on for the forseeable future. For some reason, usually only the biggest retail businesses that are the most efficient at sucking dollars out of the area tend to get their breaks.

The only tax breaks that are positive are ones that affect the employee taxes, rather than the business taxes, but that only affects employees in states with an income tax. (It can have the side effect of attracting higher caliber employees, as well.)
 
2012-12-16 07:49:45 PM
I'm sure they're going to create oodles of jobs.
 
2012-12-16 07:55:45 PM
As Billionaires, I'm sure they have nothing but good intentions for using that land as they are certainly men of upstanding moral character.
 
2012-12-16 07:56:00 PM

noazark: ... with the exception of a small strangely-shaped portion of the map, in front of which their underling constantly stands.

[yafh.com image 382x225]


What cartoon/movie is that from?
 
2012-12-16 07:58:59 PM
popculturehasaids.files.wordpress.com

"Get Bullock!"
 
2012-12-16 07:59:08 PM
Good. Privatize I Say! Privatize ... EVERYTHING
 
2012-12-16 07:59:12 PM
It's easy to buy land that noone else wants.
 
2012-12-16 07:59:27 PM
have fun payin' taxes on all that land, year after year after year
 
2012-12-16 08:03:15 PM
 
2012-12-16 08:06:16 PM
Pretty obvious they're going to open a huge Disney World...
 
2012-12-16 08:09:16 PM

LargeCanine: But Lowry, the Wilkses' neighbor at the N Bar, has no problem with the many land acquisitions by his new neighbors and sees the brothers as more friendly and open than the previous owner.

"I figured that was their business," he said of the land buys and rumors of fracking plans. "If they're buying up land, they can do what they want with it."

I wish more people had that kind of attitude.


People like that tend to change their minds once they discover that their previously good tap water can now be set on fire due to the contaminants that are introduced by hydraulic fracturing.
 
2012-12-16 08:11:58 PM

Ron Mexico's Revenge: sminkypinky: Time for a goddam revolution.

To stop people from buying land that is for sale?


It's either the government or private entities owning all the land. Which side will you be on in the revolution?
 
2012-12-16 08:12:42 PM
I figure they're just trying to build Galt's Gulch. But missed by a couple of states.
 
2012-12-16 08:14:26 PM

foxyshadis: Radioactive Ass: d23: They will be whining about property tax next. You heard it here first, folks.

The only people who get tax breaks on their property taxes are those who negotiate a deal when they are building thing like factories, malls or some other job and\or tax generating venue where they will be making more money for the county\state than what the land sitting as is would have. Usually it's a good deal for everyone involved.

Research has pretty convincingly shown that the net benefit is very negative to communities that hand out tax breaks. It is, however, enormously beneficial to politically connection construction agencies, "consultant" nephews, and council members with reitre-and-hire agreements, and the savings more than make up for the loss from those parasites, so it will go on for the forseeable future. For some reason, usually only the biggest retail businesses that are the most efficient at sucking dollars out of the area tend to get their breaks.

The only tax breaks that are positive are ones that affect the employee taxes, rather than the business taxes, but that only affects employees in states with an income tax. (It can have the side effect of attracting higher caliber employees, as well.)


[Citation Needed]
\ o /
|
/\


I can see maybe a neutral impact in rare cases where the tax break is equal to the new income taxes (and sales taxes and so on) generated by the new employees however more people working and paying taxes on what they earn brings in more money than people not working and collecting unemployment.
 
2012-12-16 08:22:25 PM

bearded clamorer: It's obvious. They're trying to corner the dental floss market.


They'll need some...
i.imm.io
 
2012-12-16 08:27:25 PM

Radioactive Ass: d23: They will be whining about property tax next. You heard it here first, folks.

The only people who get tax breaks on their property taxes are those who negotiate a deal when they are building thing like factories, malls or some other job and\or tax generating venue where they will be making more money for the county\state than what the land sitting as is would have. Usually it's a good deal for everyone involved.


Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.
 
2012-12-16 08:29:46 PM

Enigmamf: LargeCanine: But Lowry, the Wilkses' neighbor at the N Bar, has no problem with the many land acquisitions by his new neighbors and sees the brothers as more friendly and open than the previous owner.

"I figured that was their business," he said of the land buys and rumors of fracking plans. "If they're buying up land, they can do what they want with it."

I wish more people had that kind of attitude.

His tune will change if he starts to suffer ill consequences of his neighbor's activities.


This! The REAL ranchers of ND have all gone belly up because the fracking on adjacent land has poisoned their water and there's not a farking thing they can do about it. Contrary to popular belief, groundwater is NOT a renewable resource.

/I'm a hydrologist
//lives in Montana
///news like this scares the crap out of me: already dealing with idiot trust fund kid neighbors who don't know shiat about being managing land and lease theirs out to someone who puts 70 cows on 7 acres with no food or water
////get off my lawn
 
2012-12-16 08:34:54 PM

Silent But Deadly: Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.


He didn't make a statement, he made a claim about something that may or may not happen sometime in the indeterminate future (implying that such whining will get them a break on taxes, why else say that?).

I responded by saying that property taxing agencies usually only give tax breaks in return for something tangible in return like more jobs for their citizens. There are plenty of examples of this happening and the surrounding communities benefiting greatly from it.
 
2012-12-16 08:56:09 PM
Even if they kick everyone else out, they'll still get 2 Senators and 1 Representatives in the US Congress.

I just wonder, who will get to the take that third seat?
 
2012-12-16 08:57:11 PM

Bennie Crabtree: unlikely: OMGZ people with money buying LAND

STOP THE PRESSES

It does make a difference to the definition of democracy Land ownership is a serious issue and fundamental to civil rights. If you don't understand why, then you probably do not have much business having an opinion about anything in politics, I am sad to say.


Perhaps you could explain this. What does land ownership have to do with civil rights? Where is the definition of democracy related to land ownership? Why is land ownership a serious issue?
 
2012-12-16 09:03:11 PM

Mark Galvan: What the frack are they going to do with all that land?


FOOLS. The nation of Randland shall Live. And so will our privet human hunting ranch. And our personal Mt. Rushmore with our faces instead of the president's. And our nukes. And space casino.
 
2012-12-16 09:04:23 PM

Old enough to know better: Only thing I care about is what they plan on doing with it.


Oh, I'm going with condos and a corrupt HOA to cash in on it. There is big money in corrupt HOAs. So I hear.
 
2012-12-16 09:05:10 PM
cdn2-b.examiner.com

/hot
 
2012-12-16 09:24:46 PM
Yeah? So what?
 
2012-12-16 09:29:03 PM

sminkypinky: Welcome to the 1%. While you are evicted and starving, they are feeding off the fat of the land.
Time for a goddam revolution.


Grab your gun and go charge the nearest army base. And I will be right there, with you. Well, in spirit I will be there. In reality I will be sitting in my living room, having a beer, laughing at the news story of your heroic martyrdom!
 
2012-12-16 09:42:03 PM

germ78: Ah, the good old upward redistribution of wealth.


The American Dream is convincing chumps that there is an American Dream.

Eat more baked goods!
 
2012-12-16 09:52:12 PM

urban.derelict: have fun payin' taxes on all that land, year after year after year


Those pricks will pay less property tax on all that land put together than I do on my 10 acres because of Montana's retarded taxing laws: since Montana isn't their primary place of residence they pay a fraction of what those of who LIVE and WORK here pay on our land.
 
2012-12-16 09:53:41 PM

Valiente: germ78: Ah, the good old upward redistribution of wealth.

The American Dream is convincing chumps that there is an American Dream.

Eat more baked goods!


Considering that until 1996 they were working in in their fathers masonry business laying bricks I'd have to say that not only did you not RTFA but that your premise is seriously flawed.

/and that you sound fat
 
b3x
2012-12-16 09:59:21 PM

mark12A: bearded clamorer: It's obvious. They're trying to corner the dental floss market.

Then they can be dental floss tycoons.

Are they going to raise it up, wax it down, put it in little white boxes they can sell in town?


They are breeding pygmy ponies
 
2012-12-16 09:59:55 PM
1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2012-12-16 10:03:56 PM
Meh, Ted Turner has been buying up bits of Nebraska for years.
 
2012-12-16 10:05:35 PM
Big whoop! Do you even realize how BIG Montana is?
431 acres in a DROP in the bucket for that state. Notice how 431 acres is
the same size as Lorain, Ohio? Look on the map below. 431 acres is NOTHING.
This is just like the anti everything enviro-nuts saying "oh we can drill in Alaska...
that's thousands of square miles" LOL!

i16.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-16 10:13:09 PM

noazark: ... with the exception of a small strangely-shaped portion of the map, in front of which their underling constantly stands.

[yafh.com image 382x225]


But that's my comfy place!
 
2012-12-16 10:14:02 PM

p51d007: Big whoop! Do you even realize how BIG Montana is?
431 acres in a DROP in the bucket for that state. Notice how 431 acres is
the same size as Lorain, Ohio? Look on the map below. 431 acres is NOTHING.
This is just like the anti everything enviro-nuts saying "oh we can drill in Alaska...
that's thousands of square miles" LOL!

[i16.photobucket.com image 600x358]


Haha. acres.
 
2012-12-16 10:29:29 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: the only reason to have a lot of money is to help in acquiring access to
[shirtoid.com image 500x500]


www.tribute.ca 

/not that huge
//on second glance
 
2012-12-16 10:33:22 PM

Dumski: Whatever. Billionaires, regardless of "old money" or "new money" got to be where they are on the backs of others.
Then they find out how to pay zero taxes, leaving the average person to bear the load.
Fark 'em.


Ron Mexico's Revenge: sminkypinky: Time for a goddam revolution.

To stop people from buying land that is for sale?


No, because other people have more than sminky and dunski, and that just ain't fair.
 
2012-12-16 10:33:26 PM

sminkypinky: Welcome to the 1%. While you are evicted and starving, they are feeding off the fat of the land.
Time for a goddam revolution.


OMG! OMG! OMG! Look what they HAVE, man! They shouldn't HAVE that; we don't HAVE that!
 
2012-12-16 10:44:31 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: The_Original_Roxtar: the only reason to have a lot of money is to help in acquiring access to
[shirtoid.com image 500x500]

www.tribute.ca


an ugly, spoiled little brat?

/with a horrid 'lesbian' haircut, bleached blonde? (not shown)
 
2012-12-16 10:56:18 PM

ladyfortuna: Did you all miss the part where they own a hydro-fracking company?

I'm not entirely against *some* development in Montana, because driving through it last summer was pretty eery. It's very very vacant land, other than cows and hamlets. But it's also beautiful country as long as you're not down to your last gallon of gas and desperately searching for a station (no this did not happen to us, but it could have easily). A medium population/infrastructure boom wouldn't be too terrible, I just hope they're not planning to turn it all into an oilfield =/


You must have missed the part about them getting rich by SELLING their fracking business...
If I had billions, land is where I would put it. Land is fairly cheap right now, and the stock market is very risky.
 
2012-12-16 10:59:28 PM

Mark Galvan: What the frack are they going to do with all that land?


Buy it cheap, hold it till the stock market crashes, sell it to desperate investors at a premium. Get in some hunting and fishing while they wait.
 
2012-12-16 11:08:57 PM
Hmm, let me try this again: 

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-16 11:09:51 PM

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: 'Twould be hilarious if after buying all that land, they can't do a damned thing with it 'cause they don't own the mineral rights to that land. In Montana, those are two separate deeds (maybe most everywhere else as well, for all I know).


Something tells me that two men who made billions in the oil industry might just know a thing or two about mineral rights.
 
2012-12-16 11:24:47 PM

hbk72777: Every time someone cries "overcrowding", I point to Montana. It's slightly bigger than Finland, and has less than 800,000 people (Finland has 5.2 million). We also have the Dakota's, Wyoming and other states that are barely tapped.

Everybody just needs to spread the fark out.


No thank you, you can keep your strip malls and crap fast food emporiums. It is much too cold for the delicate flowers of the coasts to live in these areas.
 
2012-12-16 11:32:37 PM
Percentage of Montana owned directly by the US Federal Government: 29%
Percentage of Montana owned directly by these guys: 0.27%

I mean, seriously.
 
2012-12-16 11:42:28 PM
www.apeconmyth.com

The gall!!

/at least these landowners will be paying taxes on what they own.
 
8zo [TotalFark]
2012-12-16 11:56:12 PM
WOW! I thought left-winger and 1%er Ted Turner owned Montana already! According to his website (tedturner.com) he owns about 2,000,000 acres of land; vs. 177,000 for these guys. So some rich people like to accumulate land for whatever reason...

One thing about Mr. Turner: he is a very responsible landowner. I did try some bison in his Ted's Montana Grill, it was great!
 
2012-12-17 12:25:42 AM
I can see why this is of interest to people living in the actual area of Billings, since there's a potential land exchange involved, but why the fark did subby and random moderator think a not terribly remarkable land acquisition by a rich rancher is worth our time as a national website?
 
2012-12-17 12:54:36 AM

Jim_Callahan: I can see why this is of interest to people living in the actual area of Billings, since there's a potential land exchange involved, but why the fark did subby and random moderator think a not terribly remarkable land acquisition by a rich rancher is worth our time as a national website?


Because... Rich people.
 
2012-12-17 01:05:51 AM

Radioactive Ass: Silent But Deadly: Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.

He didn't make a statement, he made a claim about something that may or may not happen sometime in the indeterminate future (implying that such whining will get them a break on taxes, why else say that?).

I responded by saying that property taxing agencies usually only give tax breaks in return for something tangible in return like more jobs for their citizens. There are plenty of examples of this happening and the surrounding communities benefiting greatly from it.


No he did not make that statement. you did. Your reply was only your imagination reading an off-topic odd ball cross statement about some other tax abatement. He was only stating that the new property owners would now complain about their taxes (them being rich etc). Sorry that this topic is to complicated for you to follow. You still did not refute the original statement, even with your additional off-topic distraction.
 
2012-12-17 01:08:37 AM
Now's my chance to dump that worthless 80 acres and profit!

/Yee Haw!
 
2012-12-17 01:10:21 AM
Anybody paying attention, yet?

Anybody still think all filthy rich people are "job creators"?

Anybody still think that bank notes are wealth?

Stay tuned. It's gonna be a very interesting new jack roaring '20s.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:42 AM

Silent But Deadly: Radioactive Ass: Silent But Deadly: Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.

He didn't make a statement, he made a claim about something that may or may not happen sometime in the indeterminate future (implying that such whining will get them a break on taxes, why else say that?).

I responded by saying that property taxing agencies usually only give tax breaks in return for something tangible in return like more jobs for their citizens. There are plenty of examples of this happening and the surrounding communities benefiting greatly from it.

No he did not make that statement. you did. Your reply was only your imagination reading an off-topic odd ball cross statement about some other tax abatement. He was only stating that the new property owners would now complain about their taxes (them being rich etc). Sorry that this topic is to complicated for you to follow. You still did not refute the original statement, even with your additional off-topic distraction.


So only the rich complain about their property taxes? I'm pretty sure just about everyone complains about them at some time. No he was singling these people out because they were rich and because d23 is known to hate the rich (probably because they have stuff that (s)he doesn't have) based upon the posts made right here on Fark.

My response was to that.
 
2012-12-17 01:50:44 AM
With pairs of heavy duty zircon encrusted tweezers in their hands?

/is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
 
2012-12-17 02:51:07 AM

bunner: Anybody paying attention, yet?

Anybody still think all filthy rich people are "job creators"?

Anybody still think that bank notes are wealth?

Stay tuned. It's gonna be a very interesting new jack roaring '20s.


Nope - the commentards here seem to think Billionaires are great, whilst these 1% pay fek all in tax and live off your hard work
 
2012-12-17 02:57:33 AM

HeadLever: [www.apeconmyth.com image 600x493]

The gall!!

/at least these landowners will be paying taxes on what they own.


That is awesome! The federal government controls areas of land that are shaped exactly like the state in which the land resides. Really farking cool.
 
2012-12-17 03:37:26 AM

sminkypinky: Nope - the commentards here seem to think Billionaires are great, whilst these 1% pay fek all in tax and live off your hard work


Kicked dog delusion© "If I help the people in charge steal, I'll get a seat in the getaway car." No. That's not likely.
 
2012-12-17 06:36:13 AM

SlothB77: these guys will be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. huge tracts of land teeming with fish and cattle; isolated, low-population location; skilled in fishing and ranching; own lots of guns.


Depends what the apocalypse is, doesn't it?

Fishing is useless if the rivers upstream from their ranch get contaminated, for example.
 
2012-12-17 06:46:34 AM

Radioactive Ass: Silent But Deadly: Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.

He didn't make a statement, he made a claim about something that may or may not happen sometime in the indeterminate future (implying that such whining will get them a break on taxes, why else say that?).

I responded by saying that property taxing agencies usually only give tax breaks in return for something tangible in return like more jobs for their citizens. There are plenty of examples of this happening and the surrounding communities benefiting greatly from it.


Citation needed. The recent one that comes to mind for me is the Curt Schilling/ Rhode Island disaster. Wingnuts sold it as job creation, looks like it turned out to just be looting the public treasury.
 
2012-12-17 06:52:54 AM

Mock26: HeadLever: [www.apeconmyth.com image 600x493]

The gall!!

/at least these landowners will be paying taxes on what they own.

That is awesome! The federal government controls areas of land that are shaped exactly like the state in which the land resides. Really farking cool.


That was Calvin Coolidge's State Within A State plan, designed to defend us against the Yellow Peril.

Or possibly the Red Menace.

The Chartreuse Onslaught? Kind of a bust, nobody really took it seriously.
 
2012-12-17 07:10:27 AM
I have 7 acres, which is a lot of work to mow twice a week during the growing season. Mowing 431 square miles, I would need a bigger tractor, and maybe some extra help.
 
2012-12-17 07:25:07 AM

HeadLever: www.apeconmyth.com

The gall!!

/at least these landowners will be paying taxes on what they own.


Most of that land, you'd have to pay someone to own it.
 
2012-12-17 08:06:22 AM

skinink: Sarah Jessica Farker: wasn't this part of the plot of the first Christopher Reeve Superman movie?

Otisburg?

OTISBURG?!?!?!?!?


OH HAY BEATEN TO THE REFERENCE
 
2012-12-17 08:15:14 AM

PunGent: Radioactive Ass: Silent But Deadly: Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.

He didn't make a statement, he made a claim about something that may or may not happen sometime in the indeterminate future (implying that such whining will get them a break on taxes, why else say that?).

I responded by saying that property taxing agencies usually only give tax breaks in return for something tangible in return like more jobs for their citizens. There are plenty of examples of this happening and the surrounding communities benefiting greatly from it.

Citation needed. The recent one that comes to mind for me is the Curt Schilling/ Rhode Island disaster. Wingnuts sold it as job creation, looks like it turned out to just be looting the public treasury.


BMW in Spartansburg SC is a very good one, they lured them to there by offering property tax incentives (among other things) in return for providing 2,000 manufacturing jobs. They now have 7,000 high paying jobs there plus many of their parts providers set up shop in the state adding thousands of more jobs. The Curt Schilling thing is about a loan default, not about a property tax reduction. You fail the example test.
 
2012-12-17 08:38:06 AM

pedrop357: Radioactive Ass: I find it funny that people like that complain when "The Rich" move money offshore to avoid paying their fair share of taxes and also complain when they use their money to buy something that can never be moved offshore.

Not only that, but they pay a bunch of taxes on it and don't really need any services so it's quite a bargain for everyone else. You would also think they would be happy that someone is buying land and paying all kinds of transfer fees and taxes to the local/county government.


And they never buy legislative access to get their personal tax burden reduced. Nor do they pollute large areas to make a lot of cash, while keeping other large stretches as pristine personal playgrounds.

Billionaire land barons are our truest friends. The press has no right to report stories like this. Unless it's Ted Turner of course.
 
2012-12-17 09:11:00 AM

Radioactive Ass: PunGent: Radioactive Ass: Silent But Deadly: Uhmm, you didn't actually refute his statement. Not sure what tangent you were going on about honestly. Well, other than wedging in a claim as fact that is very open for debate.

He didn't make a statement, he made a claim about something that may or may not happen sometime in the indeterminate future (implying that such whining will get them a break on taxes, why else say that?).

I responded by saying that property taxing agencies usually only give tax breaks in return for something tangible in return like more jobs for their citizens. There are plenty of examples of this happening and the surrounding communities benefiting greatly from it.

Citation needed. The recent one that comes to mind for me is the Curt Schilling/ Rhode Island disaster. Wingnuts sold it as job creation, looks like it turned out to just be looting the public treasury.

BMW in Spartansburg SC is a very good one, they lured them to there by offering property tax incentives (among other things) in return for providing 2,000 manufacturing jobs. They now have 7,000 high paying jobs there plus many of their parts providers set up shop in the state adding thousands of more jobs. The Curt Schilling thing is about a loan default, not about a property tax reduction. You fail the example test.


Sorry, missed the specific "property tax" line you were pushing. BMW sounds good, actually...looks like they're doing co-generation at their plant, which is also nice.

Looks like it's not a complete panacea, though:

http://www.lincolninst.edu/pubs/2024_Rethinking-Property-Tax-Incentiv e s-for-Business
 
2012-12-17 09:27:48 AM
Yippy-Ty-O-Ty-Ay
 
2012-12-17 10:07:31 AM
Montana 147,046 square miles = 94,109,440 acre

These guys have bought 177,000 acres so far.

They have a little ways to go....
 
2012-12-17 10:40:04 AM

gibbon1:
Most of that land, you'd have to pay someone to own it.


Yep, because this land is worthless.

allisonoutside.net

onda.org

Want to know how I know you have never spent much time out in the public lands of the West?
 
2012-12-17 10:41:19 AM
www.movieactors.com

Australia...
 
2012-12-17 10:52:47 AM

Kibbler: And they never buy legislative access to get their personal tax burden reduced.


That is a pretty far stretch. Since many of these counties are mostly owned by federal governemnt, the counties are pretty dependant upon these taxes as thier only source of income. giving up the tax revenue on these large acreages is not something that is ever within the best interest of these counties.


As another example, the Grizzly Creek Ranch has a property tax of about $36,000 for a little under 2000 acres of land. That is almost the salary of one county employee.
 
2012-12-17 12:55:48 PM

SlothB77: these guys will be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. huge tracts of land teeming with fish and cattle; isolated, low-population location; skilled in fishing and ranching; own lots of guns.


In a post-apocalyptic world, their credit cards and bank accounts don't exist anymore. Their buying power is gone. They have things and items, but they'll be overrun quickly.
 
2012-12-17 01:42:38 PM

stonicus: They have things and items,


The folks that still have 'things and items' will be the rich during this scenario. Being overrun depends upon how well thay can protect thier 'things and items'.
 
2012-12-17 04:33:24 PM

stonicus: SlothB77: these guys will be able to survive in a post-apocalyptic world. huge tracts of land teeming with fish and cattle; isolated, low-population location; skilled in fishing and ranching; own lots of guns.

In a post-apocalyptic world, their credit cards and bank accounts don't exist anymore. Their buying power is gone. They have things and items, but they'll be overrun quickly.


This is what I always wonder about the rich guys who are buying space in post apocalyptic habitats. Exactly how well they enforce those contracts after the government is gone?

Link
 
2012-12-17 05:40:14 PM

PunGent: Looks like it's not a complete panacea, though:


I never said that it was perfect nor a good idea all of the time. I was just saying that that's usually the reason for lowering someones property taxes (other than a reassessment of course).
 
2012-12-17 06:38:50 PM

HeadLever: Yep, because this land is worthless


Can't be worth much. Land is overrun by wolves.
 
2012-12-17 06:58:42 PM

Radioactive Ass: PunGent: Looks like it's not a complete panacea, though:

I never said that it was perfect nor a good idea all of the time. I was just saying that that's usually the reason for lowering someones property taxes (other than a reassessment of course).


Fair enough.
 
2012-12-17 11:01:51 PM

wutchamacallem: Can't be worth much. Land is overrun by wolves.


For some in the enviro crowd, that would jack up the price two fold.
 
2012-12-18 08:30:54 AM

HeadLever: For some in the enviro crowd, that would jack up the price two fold.


Couldn't even walk around the yard what with the piles of elk poop all over.
 
Displayed 164 of 164 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report