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(BBC)   British health service is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick on weekends   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, British Medical Association, NHS, cultural change  
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8905 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2012 at 11:03 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-17 01:21:31 AM  
2 votes:

ZAZ: Massachusetts rations fancy equipment to prevent the situation where every hospital and big doctor's office has a suite of million dollar machines inviting everybody to justify their use with more billable tests.


What is this "billable"?

The NHS isn't perfect, but by golly we love it.
2012-12-17 12:33:43 AM  
2 votes:

relcec: uttertosh: relcec: Hospital doctors and GPs are taking industrial action on Thursday in protest at the government pushing through changes to their pensions that they regard both as unfair and unnecessary.

your link: Doctors will not be picketing their own workplaces. Unlike other industrial disputes, they will still attend their hospital or surgery as usual.

Even doctors taking part in the action will continue to deal with urgent and emergency cases, so it should be business as usual in A&E departments, maternity units, for renal (kidney) and cancer patients, and anyone needing an urgent diagnostic test or end-of-life care.

So, really nobody stops working. It's not like coal strikes of the 70's, mate. Yes, they're taking industrial action, but nobody will be put in danger because of this. And it's still better than what goes on in America.

nice try, though.

nice try? I beg you reconsider.
30,000 operations cancelled. and you have no idea if anyone will be hurt. putting off non emergent surgery often has terrible consequences. I've seen in it in my own family.

when the government worker miners struck you had winters without heat in f*cking england which is the same latitude as Alaska. your government had to move to a 3 day work week to save resources. the BBC which was your only tv station was forced to shutdown at 10:30 pm to save electricity. all because you had the government wrapped u in securing employment for an entire industry.

it's an awful awful idea to get the government wrapped up with ensuring the direct employment and livelihoods of entire sectors of workers when you don't absolutely have to. and since doctors are so powerful in their own right it would be the ultimate nightmare here.

the NHS does good work, but if we are switching to something else eventually there huge reasons to avoid your way. your way is ultimately one of the dumbest possible. there are so many wll thought out systems. thats an awful system.


I think you are conflating different events there. I don't remember not having any heat during the miners' strike (although it may have happened for some people) - and although we may be the same latitude as Alaska we don't have the same weather because of the N. Atlantic Drift. The 3 day week and power cuts happened much earlier on, in the 70s. Nothing to do with the coal miners. Not sure that "all because you had your government wrapped up in securing employment for an entire industry" is really fair either. If you are still referring to the miners, Thatcher wasn't exactly the most popular prime minister. A lot of people hated her for privatising just about everything, and shutting down the coal mines. She went to great lengths to reduce the power of the Unions. Not all of those Unions were anything to do with government-owned industry.
2012-12-16 04:25:38 PM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: The problem is that you're describing very limited resources, like MRI scanners and ICU care. They have to be rationed out as necessary to allow them to help the most people possible.


That is, indeed, my point. It's a waste to have these expensive resources unused, or in limited use for emergencies, overnight and at weekends. If you train another radiographer, or another ICU nurce, or another surgeon, it makes better financial sense to use the new staff to run existing facilities for more of the time than to build new facilities.

At any rate, you're describing time critical emergency situations. Many of those doctors take call shifts at their hospital, or come in from home when the ER attending sees they need that care. Most people who present to the ER, above 90% of them, are not those cases.

You may be getting mislead by the rather odd healthcare system in the US. In the UK, most people who go to A&E (Accident and Emergency, our name for an ER) are there because of, well, and accident or an emergency. We all have 24 hour cover through our GPs and/or NHS Direct (in England) or NHS 24 (in Scotland). You phone up and speak to a nurse. S/he will then either arrange an out-of-hours appointment at a local hospital (not A&E - a separate, booked clinic), or send a doctor round, or send an ambulance round, or give holding advice and tell you to see your doctor in the morning.
2012-12-16 12:27:30 PM  
2 votes:

offmymeds: NotoriousFire: offmymeds: BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.

So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?

Because your doctor doesn't want to work 70 hours a week - he wants to work 50 hours a week, or however many he currently is. Believe it or not, people do not want to work 7 days a week. Preposterous, I know. Most of us get a weekend of some form. The doctors (and nurses, etc, etc) all want one too.

I'm not saying that nobody deserves a break from their work. I would imagine that to be doubly so for those in the health services field. What I'm trying to get at is that there's got to be a way, for instance, to get my blood pressure meds refilled without having to wait 2 days (the weekend) before my doctor okays it. Am I supposed to go to the ER or an Urgent Care for this?


Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better
2012-12-16 11:49:17 AM  
2 votes:

BronyMedic: Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.


Patient convenience is a secondary consideration here. Operating theatres, MRI scanners, ICU beds and other equipment are expensive investments. It makes sense to use them as much as possible, and not just from 9 - 5 on weekdays. Some specialities already work round the clock: when my grandmother broke both hips in a fall the NHS gave her nice new ones in an operation which started at about 2am.

And, of course, if you're on the transplant list and a suitable heart / liver / kidney / lung / whatever becomes available on a Sunday morning, that's when you get the message, grab your bag and head for the hospital as fast as you can.
2012-12-16 11:35:54 AM  
2 votes:

diaphoresis: Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays...


And anyone with an emergency can too in the UK.

Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.
2012-12-16 11:25:53 AM  
2 votes:
Well. I've got a solution, but it's going to piss the nursing establishment and the IAFF Union boys off.

Community Care Paramedics, and treat and discharge in the field would go a long way towards relieving the burden people have on ERs in modern countries.
2012-12-17 10:32:01 AM  
1 vote:

orbister: The NHS isn't perfect, but by golly we love it.


It's awesome, for sure! I collapsed a lung at friend's cottage, way out in the sticks of the Highlands. I can't imagine what the bill for that ambulance ride would have come to in the US, never mind the 48 hours in ICU, then 3 weeks in cardiothoracic, with a week of physiotherapy, plus all the meds. "Morphene cost's WHAT? No, I'll take some generic paracetamol and a bit to bite down on"
2012-12-16 06:46:13 PM  
1 vote:

iserlohn: Why don't you explain the reasons the doctors threaten the strike action?


Because he's deliberately cherry-picking something he thought proved his point, but iaf (once you read past the sensationalist bullet-pointing of the Guardian's hack at the beginning), the article actually weakens his stance tremendously.

It's also why he's not responded to me.
2012-12-16 05:15:58 PM  
1 vote:

relcec: uttertosh: relcec: Hospital doctors and GPs are taking industrial action on Thursday in protest at the government pushing through changes to their pensions that they regard both as unfair and unnecessary.

your link: Doctors will not be picketing their own workplaces. Unlike other industrial disputes, they will still attend their hospital or surgery as usual.

Even doctors taking part in the action will continue to deal with urgent and emergency cases, so it should be business as usual in A&E departments, maternity units, for renal (kidney) and cancer patients, and anyone needing an urgent diagnostic test or end-of-life care.

So, really nobody stops working. It's not like coal strikes of the 70's, mate. Yes, they're taking industrial action, but nobody will be put in danger because of this. And it's still better than what goes on in America.

nice try, though.

nice try? I beg you reconsider.
30,000 operations cancelled. and you have no idea if anyone will be hurt. putting off non emergent surgery often has terrible consequences. I've seen in it in my own family.

when the government worker miners struck you had winters without heat in f*cking england which is the same latitude as Alaska. your government had to move to a 3 day work week to save resources. the BBC which was your only tv station was forced to shutdown at 10:30 pm to save electricity. all because you had the government wrapped u in securing employment for an entire industry.

it's an awful awful idea to get the government wrapped up with ensuring the direct employment and livelihoods of entire sectors of workers when you don't absolutely have to. and since doctors are so powerful in their own right it would be the ultimate nightmare here.

the NHS does good work, but if we are switching to something else eventually there huge reasons to avoid your way. your way is ultimately one of the dumbest possible. there are so many wll thought out systems. thats an awful system.


---

Why don't you explain the reasons the doctors threaten the strike action? Namely because they are now forced to work until they are 68 and much higher pension payments have been mandated. I don't see how doctors would not be upset or threaten industrial action if this was done in the private sector.

In any case, nobody's life was put in danger even if the doctors did go on strike as only non-emergency appointments were cancelled.
2012-12-16 04:31:56 PM  
1 vote:

farkeruk: The difference between public and private sector is always that failing parts of an organisation don't get dealt with in the public sector.


There is some appalling private healthcare in the UK too. Mainly the bits doing elective surgery or rich people and shoving their problems off onto the NHS. Staff levels can be truly dreadful in the private sector.

Some, not all. Can be, not are.
2012-12-16 04:28:12 PM  
1 vote:

BronyMedic: You do know the philosophy of social democracy and altruistic support of the poor and disadvantaged is completely different than Socialism, right?


You do know that most americans have fallen so completely for bogeyman socialism-is-evil rhetoric that they wouldn't know it if it bit them on the bum? Right?
2012-12-16 03:46:55 PM  
1 vote:
The UK's 10,000 GP surgeries are likely to be less affected than hospitals. "All GP surgeries will be open but the majority will be unaffected by the industrial action and in the others they will be open and taking emergency calls", said Royles.

So there are ~5-10 doctors per practice. Yup, everyone in the UK is going to die because SOCIALISM.

Stick your sensationalist WHARGARBL even further up your arse. C'mon I wanna see the W poking out your mouth.
2012-12-16 03:39:29 PM  
1 vote:

relcec: when the government worker miners struck you had winters without heat in f*cking england which is the same latitude as Alaska. your government had to move to a 3 day work week to save resources. the BBC which was your only tv station was forced to shutdown at 10:30 pm to save electricity. all because you had the government wrapped u in securing employment for an entire industry.


this is nothing to do with that.

your link: The amount of planned care postponed varies from one hospital to another. Health Service Journal reports that Wythenshawe hospital in Manchester, for example, is cancelling no operations but has rescheduled 15 outpatient appointments; University Hospital of North Staffordshire expects to cancel just three non-urgent operations and eight non-urgent outpatient appointments; Peterborough and Stamford Foundation Trust had postponed two operations and 53 outpatient appointment but thought that number might rise.

Yeah, just like the coal strikes. WAT?

"We've had calls to our helpline - though tens rather than the hundreds and hundreds we were expecting - from people who've had surgery or an appointment cancelled and told it's being rescheduled for another time.

Ooooh! This is a DISASTER! Socialized medicine is a sham that can never be brought to the USA. EVAARR!!!

These 'cancelled operations aren't really cancelled, they're resheduled, most within the following weeks, and if after assessment, the patient's condition is considered life endangering, the doctors will ALWAYS be there to act.

Yeah, socialized medicine is evil because doctors can take industrial action against the government doing illegal shiat to their pensions.

Stick it up your arse.
2012-12-16 03:12:26 PM  
1 vote:

relcec: Hospital doctors and GPs are taking industrial action on Thursday in protest at the government pushing through changes to their pensions that they regard both as unfair and unnecessary.


your link:
Doctors will not be picketing their own workplaces. Unlike other industrial disputes, they will still attend their hospital or surgery as usual.

Even doctors taking part in the action will continue to deal with urgent and emergency cases, so it should be business as usual in A&E departments, maternity units, for renal (kidney) and cancer patients, and anyone needing an urgent diagnostic test or end-of-life care.


So, really nobody stops working. It's not like coal strikes of the 70's, mate. Yes, they're taking industrial action, but nobody will be put in danger because of this. And it's still better than what goes on in America.

nice try, though.
2012-12-16 03:09:27 PM  
1 vote:

relcec: and your the one who wants all the services.
you should be more outraged by that fact than anyone.
you know why the era of big government is over? all you cheap ass motherf*ckersBig Government is only good when it imposes my morality on people who don't feel the same as I do, like in the bedroom or the privacy of your own home. Or in the womb.


Fixed that for you.
2012-12-16 03:03:16 PM  
1 vote:

relcec: derp redacted


Are you just going to keep lying like this? Have you no shame?
2012-12-16 02:57:46 PM  
1 vote:

farkeruk: I find it weird that they don't. A lot of the stuff in hospitals (X-Ray machines, MRI scanners etc) cost a farking fortune. The buildings, cleaning etc are all high fixed costs.

Look at hotels - they run 7 days a week and always aim for maximum occupancy (which is why hotels are so cheap in cities on weekends). At present, we're missing out on at least 2/7ths of capacity (and if you include evenings, even more than that).


Things last longer if you don't use them 24/7.
2012-12-16 02:53:57 PM  
1 vote:

BafflerMeal: Fizpez: farkeruk: skinink: These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.

I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.

Are you farking kidding me? There are four nurses in my immediate family (+1 first cousin). They are some of the kindest, caring people I have ever met. The fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has told stories of 14 hour shifts where they didnt even has so much as time to pee, let alone eat anything leads me to believe you are either lying your ass off or have had the unbelievable luck to the see the same sour-assed three nurses your entire life.

Personally at some point in a 14 hour shift I would have told my patients to fark off because I'm going to eat a sandwich while sitting on a toilet for the next 3 minutes... but that's just me.


The same bell curve or people from your high school is in every profession. Every profession. Reducing people in a profession to an archetype is folly. Whether they are soldiers, bankers, nurses, doctors, or supermarket checkout people. The are good ones, bad ones, charitable ones, biatchy ones, etc... in every slice.

/hell some of the 9/11 first responders were looting for jebus sake, and look at how they have been reduced to the abstract...


This is probably the most important and true thing that has been or will be said in this thread. I've heard it referred to as the "10% rule" in that generally 10% of people are total shiatheads no matter where you go. But people have 1 negative experience with someone in a group and it paints that entire group as bad for them. Or they have an inflated view of a group and then are astonished or in disbelief when they hear about someone in that group farking up. But the truth is in the middle. Whether it's actually 10% or not is obviously not clear, but some small percentage o people in general make up the troublemakers. They're the criminals, liars, thieves, power-hungry, sociopaths. And unless you're specifically seeking them out (like looking in prison populations) you'll run into roughly the same amount no matter where you look.
2012-12-16 02:10:18 PM  
1 vote:
We in Britain spend half of what America spends per-capita on healthcare. For that we get the NHS.

Thats the NHS for half the price of the American system.
2012-12-16 01:07:43 PM  
1 vote:
showing patients in England were 16% more likely to die if they were admitted on a Sunday, rather than mid-week.

Be a good little sheeple and sod off. I'll be in on Monday if you're still alive wot! I can hardly wait for Obama care. Thanks liberturds.
2012-12-16 01:01:08 PM  
1 vote:

Fano: offmymeds: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

BronyMedic: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

Or the fact that any medicine Schedule III or above can be called in by the on-call provider for your family physician after hours anyway.

I'm talking about when I've got zero refills, and what the hell is a Schedule III medicine?

So, with your heart meds that you take on a daily basis, did you just glumly sit there whe you received your last refill? You knew you needed a refill, why wait until you have zero pills left?


It's not heart meds. It's meds for high blood pressure. Sometimes people, such as myself, forget about even the simplest things.
2012-12-16 12:17:28 PM  
1 vote:

diaphoresis: Spade: I can understand why you'd want X-Ray, CT, and such on the weekends for emergencies, but why "routine surgery"? That shiat can wait until Monday, I'm sure.


diaphoresis: so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

Go talk to some ER staff or EMTs. A lot of people who either don't have primary care docs (for whatever reason) or can't see them because they're closed end up showing up at the ER for crap. And, of course, they can't look at them and say "Are you farking stupid?" and just send them home. And that doesn't count the people just looking to score some free painkillers.

/if you're not broken or bleeding

I have spent very little time in ER's (lucky I suppose), but when I have been, it's always seemed people were limping, bloody, had children who were sick, or things of the like. I don't remember seeing anyone who looked uninjured.. seen a few that looked like they sleep on subways, but looked injured nonetheless. Again, not enough knowledge to say 95% of ER visits are unnecessary. I'll have to defer to your entensive knowledge on this one.


I've been to the ER once in adulthood, and it was for my daughter with a broken wrist. I would actually have gone to Urgent Care, but I called our pediatrician who said to go to the ER. She broke it at school at 2:00 pm, and I was in the ER by 2:45.

We weren't even brought back until 6:00 pm, and that was just to the inner waiting area with the slightly less uncomfortable chairs. We didn't get a room until after 8 and weren't out of there until the wee hours. If you've ever broken a wrist, you know this was not a comfy wait. I kept close track of who went in before us. The seizing kid? Yeah, you go first. Like wise the kid with the diabetic crisis, and the one who hit his head and is now puking. My kid is not going to die from her broken wrist. But fark you, yes you, mom of toddler with the shiats for three days who is in the waiting room shoving Funyuns down the kid's throat until she pukes all over the waiting room. You do not get to go before my kid who is in pain. Likewise the kid with the rash and no other symptoms who is acting just fine and running all over the place annoying everyone. And fark you, whomever told the kid in the cast to go to the er for her follow-up instead of the bone and joint center, because she had medicaid.

I will not go back to the ER unless death is iminent. It was horrible.
2012-12-16 12:16:49 PM  
1 vote:

diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)

What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".

That I was in before it. Which I wasn't. You jumped on me regarding being afraid of facts. Which I'm not. Even if you had presented any. Which you didn't.

nice try, though.

Hmmm.. circular argument. Not suprising.


Ah, ad homenim rhetorical retort. Not surprising.
2012-12-16 12:12:39 PM  
1 vote:

Fizpez: farkeruk: skinink: These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.

I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.

Are you farking kidding me? There are four nurses in my immediate family (+1 first cousin). They are some of the kindest, caring people I have ever met. The fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has told stories of 14 hour shifts where they didnt even has so much as time to pee, let alone eat anything leads me to believe you are either lying your ass off or have had the unbelievable luck to the see the same sour-assed three nurses your entire life.

Personally at some point in a 14 hour shift I would have told my patients to fark off because I'm going to eat a sandwich while sitting on a toilet for the next 3 minutes... but that's just me.



The same bell curve or people from your high school is in every profession. Every profession. Reducing people in a profession to an archetype is folly. Whether they are soldiers, bankers, nurses, doctors, or supermarket checkout people. The are good ones, bad ones, charitable ones, biatchy ones, etc... in every slice.

/hell some of the 9/11 first responders were looting for jebus sake, and look at how they have been reduced to the abstract...
2012-12-16 11:57:55 AM  
1 vote:

diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)

What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".


That I was in before it. Which I wasn't. You jumped on me regarding being afraid of facts. Which I'm not. Even if you had presented any. Which you didn't.

nice try, though.
2012-12-16 11:51:18 AM  
1 vote:

offmymeds: So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?


Because you pay a premium to do so, and that doctor is in private practice.

You, on the other hand, are not the audience that they're targeting with "free" healthcare anyway. The people who make five dollars an hour, and can barely afford to feed their kids are.
2012-12-16 11:49:59 AM  
1 vote:
US health system is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick but not rich
2012-12-16 11:48:48 AM  
1 vote:
I can understand why you'd want X-Ray, CT, and such on the weekends for emergencies, but why "routine surgery"? That shiat can wait until Monday, I'm sure.


diaphoresis: so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..


Go talk to some ER staff or EMTs. A lot of people who either don't have primary care docs (for whatever reason) or can't see them because they're closed end up showing up at the ER for crap. And, of course, they can't look at them and say "Are you farking stupid?" and just send them home. And that doesn't count the people just looking to score some free painkillers.

/if you're not broken or bleeding
2012-12-16 11:44:54 AM  
1 vote:

lewismarktwo: Whereas here you just don't get the services unless you would be rich enough to afford supplemental health care in GB anyway. But socialism.


Here if you are rich enough to pay for private treatment, you get to pay twice. But conservatism, I guess.
2012-12-16 11:44:50 AM  
1 vote:
These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.
2012-12-16 11:43:13 AM  
1 vote:
I find it weird that they don't. A lot of the stuff in hospitals (X-Ray machines, MRI scanners etc) cost a farking fortune. The buildings, cleaning etc are all high fixed costs.

Look at hotels - they run 7 days a week and always aim for maximum occupancy (which is why hotels are so cheap in cities on weekends). At present, we're missing out on at least 2/7ths of capacity (and if you include evenings, even more than that).
2012-12-16 11:43:10 AM  
1 vote:

The Stealth Hippopotamus: That's easy, they just need to wait.

Grandfather-in-law got to wait 6 months for hip replacement after shattering his hip.


That probably just means that they had to wait for the fracture to heal before replacing the hip joint.
2012-12-16 11:42:31 AM  
1 vote:

BronyMedic: diaphoresis: Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays...

And anyone with an emergency can too in the UK.

Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.


so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

/Going to the doctor with sniffles, you would be right
//Paper cut? You'd be right again.
2012-12-16 11:40:41 AM  
1 vote:

diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....


So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)
2012-12-16 11:37:09 AM  
1 vote:
I used to occasionally get "sick on weekends." But then I stopped drinking vodka/redbulls. DNRTFA
2012-12-16 11:34:14 AM  
1 vote:

uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"


Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....
2012-12-16 11:15:18 AM  
1 vote:
That's easy, they just need to wait.

Grandfather-in-law got to wait 6 months for hip replacement after shattering his hip.

You get what you pay for
 
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