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(BBC)   British health service is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick on weekends   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 130
    More: Interesting, British Medical Association, NHS, cultural change  
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8882 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2012 at 11:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-16 12:17:28 PM

diaphoresis: Spade: I can understand why you'd want X-Ray, CT, and such on the weekends for emergencies, but why "routine surgery"? That shiat can wait until Monday, I'm sure.


diaphoresis: so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

Go talk to some ER staff or EMTs. A lot of people who either don't have primary care docs (for whatever reason) or can't see them because they're closed end up showing up at the ER for crap. And, of course, they can't look at them and say "Are you farking stupid?" and just send them home. And that doesn't count the people just looking to score some free painkillers.

/if you're not broken or bleeding

I have spent very little time in ER's (lucky I suppose), but when I have been, it's always seemed people were limping, bloody, had children who were sick, or things of the like. I don't remember seeing anyone who looked uninjured.. seen a few that looked like they sleep on subways, but looked injured nonetheless. Again, not enough knowledge to say 95% of ER visits are unnecessary. I'll have to defer to your entensive knowledge on this one.


I've been to the ER once in adulthood, and it was for my daughter with a broken wrist. I would actually have gone to Urgent Care, but I called our pediatrician who said to go to the ER. She broke it at school at 2:00 pm, and I was in the ER by 2:45.

We weren't even brought back until 6:00 pm, and that was just to the inner waiting area with the slightly less uncomfortable chairs. We didn't get a room until after 8 and weren't out of there until the wee hours. If you've ever broken a wrist, you know this was not a comfy wait. I kept close track of who went in before us. The seizing kid? Yeah, you go first. Like wise the kid with the diabetic crisis, and the one who hit his head and is now puking. My kid is not going to die from her broken wrist. But fark you, yes you, mom of toddler with the shiats for three days who is in the waiting room shoving Funyuns down the kid's throat until she pukes all over the waiting room. You do not get to go before my kid who is in pain. Likewise the kid with the rash and no other symptoms who is acting just fine and running all over the place annoying everyone. And fark you, whomever told the kid in the cast to go to the er for her follow-up instead of the bone and joint center, because she had medicaid.

I will not go back to the ER unless death is iminent. It was horrible.
 
2012-12-16 12:17:35 PM
British health service is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick sex on weekends  

There goes my Freudian sick again.
 
2012-12-16 12:20:20 PM

uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)

What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".

That I was in before it. Which I wasn't. You jumped on me regarding being afraid of facts. Which I'm not. Even if you had presented any. Which you didn't.

nice try, though.

Hmmm.. circular argument. Not suprising.

Ah, ad homenim rhetorical retort. Not surprising.


Inaccurate non-sequitur to hide behind. /yawn
 
2012-12-16 12:20:31 PM

farkeruk: I find it weird that they don't. A lot of the stuff in hospitals (X-Ray machines, MRI scanners etc) cost a farking fortune. The buildings, cleaning etc are all high fixed costs.

Look at hotels - they run 7 days a week and always aim for maximum occupancy (which is why hotels are so cheap in cities on weekends). At present, we're missing out on at least 2/7ths of capacity (and if you include evenings, even more than that).


Unlawful use of logic, go back two squares.
 
2012-12-16 12:21:11 PM

GreyWolf007: farkeruk: I find it weird that they don't. A lot of the stuff in hospitals (X-Ray machines, MRI scanners etc) cost a farking fortune. The buildings, cleaning etc are all high fixed costs.

Look at hotels - they run 7 days a week and always aim for maximum occupancy (which is why hotels are so cheap in cities on weekends). At present, we're missing out on at least 2/7ths of capacity (and if you include evenings, even more than that).

Unlawful use of logic, go back two squares.


and skip 1 turn... ;-)
 
2012-12-16 12:22:08 PM

Bad_Seed: I think there used to be a monolithic Government-Runs-It-All system, way back in the day, but subsequent governments have kept reforming it. There are some conservatives who want to get rid of the whole thing and have a more American system (or at least there used to be until it became apparent how badly that works), but they can't say that outright because of how extremely popular the NHS is. People are really attached to this idea of universal healthcare, free at the point of service. Despite all the bureaucratic crap behind the scenes, a patient can get anything from a routine check-up to full blow long term care without anybody asking "do you have insurance?" or without any money changing hands, and God help any politician who would want to get rid of that. So instead they keep changing things here and there, creating fake "internal markets", adding layers of management to make sure everyone "hits their targets" and a lot of crap like that. Some of it actually helps, but it leaves the whole system a bit complicated and convoluted.


The Conservative proposal is actually a lot closer to what France has. You still get treatment for free, but you choose who provides it. And this time it isn't a fake internal market, it's a real market where your GP pays for a treatment with a provider.

The NHS is a mixed bag. There's some great places (I'll single out the JR hospital in Oxford as exemplary) but some hospitals are a farking disaster. The difference between public and private sector is always that failing parts of an organisation don't get dealt with in the public sector. They are left to fester, especially if the performance measurements are wrong and easy to game (ER waiting times were manipulated by some hospitals having people waiting in ambulances).
 
2012-12-16 12:25:34 PM
Some industries simply don't have traditional weekends. Entertainment, services, hospitality, catering/restaurants, etc. If you don't like working weekends, don't go into one of those fields. Otherwise, get over yourself.
 
2012-12-16 12:26:30 PM

diaphoresis: Inaccurate non-sequitur to hide behind. /yawn


ditto, baby, ditto.
 
2012-12-16 12:27:30 PM

offmymeds: NotoriousFire: offmymeds: BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.

So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?

Because your doctor doesn't want to work 70 hours a week - he wants to work 50 hours a week, or however many he currently is. Believe it or not, people do not want to work 7 days a week. Preposterous, I know. Most of us get a weekend of some form. The doctors (and nurses, etc, etc) all want one too.

I'm not saying that nobody deserves a break from their work. I would imagine that to be doubly so for those in the health services field. What I'm trying to get at is that there's got to be a way, for instance, to get my blood pressure meds refilled without having to wait 2 days (the weekend) before my doctor okays it. Am I supposed to go to the ER or an Urgent Care for this?


Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better
 
2012-12-16 12:28:17 PM

Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better


Or the fact that any medicine Schedule III or above can be called in by the on-call provider for your family physician after hours anyway.
 
2012-12-16 12:29:18 PM

uttertosh: diaphoresis: Inaccurate non-sequitur to hide behind. /yawn

ditto, baby, ditto.


Awww.. ran out of things to say? Pity...

/just when I thought you had an IQ over -5,000,000
 
2012-12-16 12:44:06 PM

Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better


BronyMedic: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

Or the fact that any medicine Schedule III or above can be called in by the on-call provider for your family physician after hours anyway.


I'm talking about when I've got zero refills, and what the hell is a Schedule III medicine?
 
2012-12-16 12:46:00 PM

farkeruk: Bad_Seed: I think there used to be a monolithic Government-Runs-It-All system, way back in the day, but subsequent governments have kept reforming it. There are some conservatives who want to get rid of the whole thing and have a more American system (or at least there used to be until it became apparent how badly that works), but they can't say that outright because of how extremely popular the NHS is. People are really attached to this idea of universal healthcare, free at the point of service. Despite all the bureaucratic crap behind the scenes, a patient can get anything from a routine check-up to full blow long term care without anybody asking "do you have insurance?" or without any money changing hands, and God help any politician who would want to get rid of that. So instead they keep changing things here and there, creating fake "internal markets", adding layers of management to make sure everyone "hits their targets" and a lot of crap like that. Some of it actually helps, but it leaves the whole system a bit complicated and convoluted.

The Conservative proposal is actually a lot closer to what France has. You still get treatment for free, but you choose who provides it. And this time it isn't a fake internal market, it's a real market where your GP pays for a treatment with a provider.

The NHS is a mixed bag. There's some great places (I'll single out the JR hospital in Oxford as exemplary) but some hospitals are a farking disaster. The difference between public and private sector is always that failing parts of an organisation don't get dealt with in the public sector. They are left to fester, especially if the performance measurements are wrong and easy to game (ER waiting times were manipulated by some hospitals having people waiting in ambulances).


under the farking disaster category:

Oldchurch Hospital, Romford. Literally old, always had bad service, infection problems, long wait times etc etc. Solution: Build a new one over the road, start from scratch. Fark: they moved all the existing staff and mobile equipment, and the systems. So it's still just as bad, just newer. Oh, and the building, which was paid for by us taxpayers, is only leased for 20 years then goes back to the developer who will turn it into retail and apartment space. Go figure.
 
2012-12-16 12:48:03 PM

diaphoresis: /just when I thought you had an IQ over -5,000,000


oh, snap.
 
2012-12-16 12:48:03 PM

Wodan11: Some industries simply don't have traditional weekends. Entertainment, services, hospitality, catering/restaurants, etc. If you don't like working weekends, don't go into one of those fields. Otherwise, get over yourself.


Routine care can be done on the weekdays.

I had a kidney stone lithotripsey done. Would it have been convenient to have it done on a Saturday? Sure. But there was no reason it couldn't wait until Thursday.

And I do know some people who went into certain medical fields because it gave them pretty much a standard work week.

/lithotripsy it sucked either way.
 
2012-12-16 12:55:04 PM
Shoot'm like a horse!
 
2012-12-16 12:56:06 PM

offmymeds: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

BronyMedic: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

Or the fact that any medicine Schedule III or above can be called in by the on-call provider for your family physician after hours anyway.

I'm talking about when I've got zero refills, and what the hell is a Schedule III medicine?


So, with your heart meds that you take on a daily basis, did you just glumly sit there whe you received your last refill? You knew you needed a refill, why wait until you have zero pills left?
 
2012-12-16 12:59:51 PM

offmymeds: I'm talking about when I've got zero refills


Any medicine that you take on a regular basis, and you are already established as taking, should be able to get a temporary refil for the next few days called in by the on-call nurse for that clinic provided its not a Schedule II Narcotic, like Morphine or Ritalin.

offmymeds: and what the hell is a Schedule III medicine?


Drugs with addictive or abuse potential in the United States are classified under Schedules depending on their danger of dependence and abuse. Schedule II drugs require a written prescription each time they are refilled.
 
2012-12-16 01:01:08 PM

Fano: offmymeds: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

BronyMedic: Fano: Probably if you didn't wait until you were out of pills to ask for a refill you might do better

Or the fact that any medicine Schedule III or above can be called in by the on-call provider for your family physician after hours anyway.

I'm talking about when I've got zero refills, and what the hell is a Schedule III medicine?

So, with your heart meds that you take on a daily basis, did you just glumly sit there whe you received your last refill? You knew you needed a refill, why wait until you have zero pills left?


It's not heart meds. It's meds for high blood pressure. Sometimes people, such as myself, forget about even the simplest things.
 
2012-12-16 01:01:45 PM

diaphoresis: Hmmm.. circular argument. Not suprising.

Ah, ad homenim rhetorical retort. Not surprising.

Inaccurate non-sequitur to hide behind. /yawn



My argument was not circular

Your retort was both ad homenim and rhetorical.

Your last statement is, thus, invalid.

Please do present us with these 'Facts' that I am "afraid" of. I'd love to flex my knowledge on the subject, as a former employee of the NHS in the United Kingdom.

/136
 
2012-12-16 01:03:11 PM

BronyMedic: offmymeds: I'm talking about when I've got zero refills

Any medicine that you take on a regular basis, and you are already established as taking, should be able to get a temporary refil for the next few days called in by the on-call nurse for that clinic provided its not a Schedule II Narcotic, like Morphine or Ritalin.

offmymeds: and what the hell is a Schedule III medicine?

Drugs with addictive or abuse potential in the United States are classified under Schedules depending on their danger of dependence and abuse. Schedule II drugs require a written prescription each time they are refilled.


Thank you.
 
2012-12-16 01:07:43 PM
showing patients in England were 16% more likely to die if they were admitted on a Sunday, rather than mid-week.

Be a good little sheeple and sod off. I'll be in on Monday if you're still alive wot! I can hardly wait for Obama care. Thanks liberturds.
 
2012-12-16 01:08:53 PM
I never understood this myself. In America, if people are so concerned about how much healthcare costs, then there should be a low-cost alternative to the ER that is open beyond 5 days a week during business hours. Most people can't afford to miss work for a cold, or wait hours at the dr's office after having an appt. It just makes absolutely no sense. And for some reason, my kids ALWAYS get sick on Friday night, it never fails.
 
2012-12-16 01:10:03 PM

OscarTamerz: Be a good little sheeple and sod off. I'll be in on Monday if you're still alive wot! I can hardly wait for Obama care. Thanks liberturds.


This just in: Attending physicians don't hang around the hospital afterhours. Their biatchesResidents do.
 
2012-12-16 01:10:23 PM

THE GREAT NAME: lewismarktwo: Whereas here you just don't get the services unless you would be rich enough to afford supplemental health care in GB anyway. But socialism.

Here if you are rich enough to pay for private treatment, you get to pay twice. But conservatism, I guess.


Begs the question: why would anyone choose to pay twice?
 
2012-12-16 01:10:49 PM

uttertosh: diaphoresis: Hmmm.. circular argument. Not suprising.

Ah, ad homenim rhetorical retort. Not surprising.

Inaccurate non-sequitur to hide behind. /yawn


My argument was not circular

Your retort was both ad homenim and rhetorical.

Your last statement is, thus, invalid.

Please do present us with these 'Facts' that I am "afraid" of. I'd love to flex my knowledge on the subject, as a former employee of the NHS in the United Kingdom.

/136


You have just made my involvement unnecessary. Congratulations. You win.. or lose.. depends on your perspective.
 
2012-12-16 01:24:12 PM

diaphoresis: You have just made my involvement unnecessary


Explanation required. Or, at least expand further than banal rhetoric.
 
2012-12-16 01:28:24 PM

Spade: Some routine care can be done on the weekdays.

I had a kidney stone lithotripsey done. Would it have been convenient to have it done on a Saturday? Sure. But there was no reason it couldn't wait until Thursday.


FTFY.

And, "no reason" except the agonizing pain you were in, and you had to wait for 5 more days? Kidney stones aren't fun.
 
2012-12-16 01:28:59 PM
C) lie back and think of England
 
2012-12-16 01:33:59 PM

diaphoresis:

so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

Yes but the ones requiring immediate attention are looked after just fine at 2am sunday.. it is non-urgent care they are talking about providing 7 days.

So shush.
 
2012-12-16 01:37:34 PM

NotoriousFire:
Because your doctor doesn't want to work 70 hours a week - he wants to work 50 hours a week, or however many he currently is. Believe it or not, people do not want to work 7 days a week. Preposterous, I know. Most of us get a weekend of some form. The doctors (and nurses, etc, etc) all want one too.


Yeah, but why does it have to fall on the weekend? Some of them can take a couple of days off in the middle of the week, with rotating shifts of staff available at all times. Works fine for retail workers, hotel workers etc.

I'm actually shocked by this article. I just assumed hospitals were fully staffed at all times.
 
2012-12-16 01:43:54 PM

Max Awesome: I'm actually shocked by this article. I just assumed hospitals were fully staffed at all times.


Ha. Hell, this is about weekends? Most folks don't even realize that major hospitals cut their direct care and ancillary staff by a large percentage every night. And that's not because the patients are less sick when the sun is down.
 
2012-12-16 02:05:19 PM

BronyMedic: Well. I've got a solution, but it's going to piss the nursing establishment and the IAFF Union boys off.



Community Care Paramedics, and treat and discharge in the field would go a long way towards relieving the burden people have on ERs in modern countries.


Sorry, I'm late to the conversation but THIS ...

It's unfortunate that when we (the U.S.) had the opportunity and wide spread support to do so, we didn't put healthcare change in place. Instead we changed who got the money and how much they got. Somebody upthread told us their doctor's office advised them to go to the ER for their daughter's broken arm. That's a good example. Instead of having a unified treatment system in place starting with the first call to 911 through any long term or after care, we have a miss-matched set of resources, that change from place to place, which results in people requesting ambulance transport (or walking in) to ERs on the week-ends for medication re-fills, long term aches and pains and minor medical problems that do not require a hospital. Low income folks go any day of the week for the same, not just the week-ends. The problem is compounded when certain groups do not want to give up their turf in order to build a more complete system or have to worry about unknown quantities such as socialism capitalism Lawyers.
 
2012-12-16 02:10:18 PM
We in Britain spend half of what America spends per-capita on healthcare. For that we get the NHS.

Thats the NHS for half the price of the American system.
 
2012-12-16 02:17:36 PM

duffblue: CygnusDarius: Soshalzm!

Something like 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, the system works.


Mitt?
 
2012-12-16 02:18:46 PM

xtrc8u: BronyMedic: Well. I've got a solution, but it's going to piss the nursing establishment and the IAFF Union boys off.



Community Care Paramedics, and treat and discharge in the field would go a long way towards relieving the burden people have on ERs in modern countries.

Sorry, I'm late to the conversation but THIS ...

It's unfortunate that when we (the U.S.) had the opportunity and wide spread support to do so, we didn't put healthcare change in place. Instead we changed who got the money and how much they got. Somebody upthread told us their doctor's office advised them to go to the ER for their daughter's broken arm. That's a good example. Instead of having a unified treatment system in place starting with the first call to 911 through any long term or after care, we have a miss-matched set of resources, that change from place to place, which results in people requesting ambulance transport (or walking in) to ERs on the week-ends for medication re-fills, long term aches and pains and minor medical problems that do not require a hospital. Low income folks go any day of the week for the same, not just the week-ends. The problem is compounded when certain groups do not want to give up their turf in order to build a more complete system or have to worry about unknown quantities such as socialism capitalism Lawyers.


Or the fact that you'll literally have people call 911 because they have had a low grade fever for two hours, and have not taken tylenol at all, at three in the morning, but people who are having heart attacks will drive themselves to the hospital.
 
2012-12-16 02:19:03 PM

Norfolking Chance: We in Britain spend half of what America spends per-capita on healthcare. For that we get the NHS.

Thats the NHS for half the price of the American system.


And a quarter of the quality!

/Win?
 
2012-12-16 02:23:10 PM

orbister: The Stealth Hippopotamus: That's easy, they just need to wait.

Grandfather-in-law got to wait 6 months for hip replacement after shattering his hip.

That probably just means that they had to wait for the fracture to heal before replacing the hip joint.


No no! It COULDN'T have been a medical decision! It was SOSHIALIST BUREAUCRATS!
 
2012-12-16 02:24:38 PM

Norfolking Chance: We in Britain spend half of what America spends per-capita on healthcare. For that we get the NHS.

Thats the NHS for half the price of the American system.


But it's SOSHULISM. We pay double and cover fewer people, but we like it like that.
 
2012-12-16 02:53:57 PM

BafflerMeal: Fizpez: farkeruk: skinink: These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.

I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.

Are you farking kidding me? There are four nurses in my immediate family (+1 first cousin). They are some of the kindest, caring people I have ever met. The fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has told stories of 14 hour shifts where they didnt even has so much as time to pee, let alone eat anything leads me to believe you are either lying your ass off or have had the unbelievable luck to the see the same sour-assed three nurses your entire life.

Personally at some point in a 14 hour shift I would have told my patients to fark off because I'm going to eat a sandwich while sitting on a toilet for the next 3 minutes... but that's just me.


The same bell curve or people from your high school is in every profession. Every profession. Reducing people in a profession to an archetype is folly. Whether they are soldiers, bankers, nurses, doctors, or supermarket checkout people. The are good ones, bad ones, charitable ones, biatchy ones, etc... in every slice.

/hell some of the 9/11 first responders were looting for jebus sake, and look at how they have been reduced to the abstract...


This is probably the most important and true thing that has been or will be said in this thread. I've heard it referred to as the "10% rule" in that generally 10% of people are total shiatheads no matter where you go. But people have 1 negative experience with someone in a group and it paints that entire group as bad for them. Or they have an inflated view of a group and then are astonished or in disbelief when they hear about someone in that group farking up. But the truth is in the middle. Whether it's actually 10% or not is obviously not clear, but some small percentage o people in general make up the troublemakers. They're the criminals, liars, thieves, power-hungry, sociopaths. And unless you're specifically seeking them out (like looking in prison populations) you'll run into roughly the same amount no matter where you look.
 
2012-12-16 02:57:46 PM

farkeruk: I find it weird that they don't. A lot of the stuff in hospitals (X-Ray machines, MRI scanners etc) cost a farking fortune. The buildings, cleaning etc are all high fixed costs.

Look at hotels - they run 7 days a week and always aim for maximum occupancy (which is why hotels are so cheap in cities on weekends). At present, we're missing out on at least 2/7ths of capacity (and if you include evenings, even more than that).


Things last longer if you don't use them 24/7.
 
2012-12-16 02:59:41 PM
So I don't quite get it... are there not enough trained medical staff available to cover the weekends? Or is it that nobody's hired enough of them to work weekends?
 
2012-12-16 03:00:13 PM

Bad_Seed: BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Doctors are typically employed by "Trusts" which run hospitals and primary clinics. They get paid by the government on the basis of services they provide (probably similar to Medicare, but with less fiddling). There are plenty of private practices, and many of those do work for the NHS as well, or doctors who do some work for the NHS and some privately.



fee for service? NHS?
try mostly salary and capitation payment plus government pension. medicare is straight fee for service. you get paid for the work you do.

I'd take just about any single payer system from the industrialized countries, save the NHS and the one in switzerland.
turning doctors into government employees is a nightmare idea for america.
the NHS doctors over there went on strike this summer. the doctors went on strike. think about that.

turning every doctor into a government employee and payment and staffing levels into a political football over here do to political ties to unions would be crazy.

/we should have single payer universal in the u.s., but the government should continue to be simply a third party payor, not an employer that becomes required to save the jobs and incomes of an extraordinarily powerful interest group.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/21/doctors-strike-pension s- hospitals-gp-surgeries
Hospital doctors and GPs are taking industrial action on Thursday in protest at the government pushing through changes to their pensions that they regard both as unfair and unnecessary.

The government has claimed that up to 30,000 operations could be cancelled and 1.25m GP appointments postponed as a result of the strike, which was due to start at midnight. The figures cannot be verified as the Department of Health has asked NHS trusts not to reveal details to the media.
 
2012-12-16 03:03:16 PM

relcec: derp redacted


Are you just going to keep lying like this? Have you no shame?
 
2012-12-16 03:03:23 PM

BafflerMeal: Max Awesome: I'm actually shocked by this article. I just assumed hospitals were fully staffed at all times.

Ha. Hell, this is about weekends? Most folks don't even realize that major hospitals cut their direct care and ancillary staff by a large percentage every night. And that's not because the patients are less sick when the sun is down.


they are often sleeping though. procedures aren't scheduled. etc. why have the same amount of people for less work at night?
 
2012-12-16 03:05:00 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: duffblue: CygnusDarius: Soshalzm!

Something like 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, the system works.

Mitt?


and your the one who wants all the services.
you should be more outraged by that fact than anyone.
you know why the era of big government is over? all you cheap ass motherf*ckers.
 
2012-12-16 03:09:27 PM

relcec: and your the one who wants all the services.
you should be more outraged by that fact than anyone.
you know why the era of big government is over? all you cheap ass motherf*ckersBig Government is only good when it imposes my morality on people who don't feel the same as I do, like in the bedroom or the privacy of your own home. Or in the womb.


Fixed that for you.
 
2012-12-16 03:12:26 PM

relcec: Hospital doctors and GPs are taking industrial action on Thursday in protest at the government pushing through changes to their pensions that they regard both as unfair and unnecessary.


your link:
Doctors will not be picketing their own workplaces. Unlike other industrial disputes, they will still attend their hospital or surgery as usual.

Even doctors taking part in the action will continue to deal with urgent and emergency cases, so it should be business as usual in A&E departments, maternity units, for renal (kidney) and cancer patients, and anyone needing an urgent diagnostic test or end-of-life care.


So, really nobody stops working. It's not like coal strikes of the 70's, mate. Yes, they're taking industrial action, but nobody will be put in danger because of this. And it's still better than what goes on in America.

nice try, though.
 
2012-12-16 03:14:25 PM

BronyMedic: relcec: and your the one who wants all the services.
you should be more outraged by that fact than anyone.
you know why the era of big government is over? all you cheap ass motherf*ckersBig Government is only good when it imposes my morality on people who don't feel the same as I do, like in the bedroom or the privacy of your own home. Or in the womb.

Fixed that for you.


shouldn't you be licking cruiser12's cop boots in some other thread about now?
authoritarian dbag.
 
2012-12-16 03:25:22 PM

uttertosh: relcec: Hospital doctors and GPs are taking industrial action on Thursday in protest at the government pushing through changes to their pensions that they regard both as unfair and unnecessary.

your link: Doctors will not be picketing their own workplaces. Unlike other industrial disputes, they will still attend their hospital or surgery as usual.

Even doctors taking part in the action will continue to deal with urgent and emergency cases, so it should be business as usual in A&E departments, maternity units, for renal (kidney) and cancer patients, and anyone needing an urgent diagnostic test or end-of-life care.

So, really nobody stops working. It's not like coal strikes of the 70's, mate. Yes, they're taking industrial action, but nobody will be put in danger because of this. And it's still better than what goes on in America.

nice try, though.


nice try? I beg you reconsider.
30,000 operations cancelled. and you have no idea if anyone will be hurt. putting off non emergent surgery often has terrible consequences. I've seen in it in my own family.

when the government worker miners struck you had winters without heat in f*cking england which is the same latitude as Alaska. your government had to move to a 3 day work week to save resources. the BBC which was your only tv station was forced to shutdown at 10:30 pm to save electricity. all because you had the government wrapped u in securing employment for an entire industry.

it's an awful awful idea to get the government wrapped up with ensuring the direct employment and livelihoods of entire sectors of workers when you don't absolutely have to. and since doctors are so powerful in their own right it would be the ultimate nightmare here.

the NHS does good work, but if we are switching to something else eventually there huge reasons to avoid your way. your way is ultimately one of the dumbest possible. there are so many wll thought out systems. thats an awful system.
 
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