If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC)   British health service is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick on weekends   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 130
    More: Interesting, British Medical Association, NHS, cultural change  
•       •       •

8882 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2012 at 11:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



130 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-12-16 11:05:54 AM
1. Instagreen articles.
 
2012-12-16 11:06:43 AM
Soshalzm!
 
2012-12-16 11:08:02 AM
content8.flixster.com
 
2012-12-16 11:13:45 AM
in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"
 
2012-12-16 11:15:18 AM
That's easy, they just need to wait.

Grandfather-in-law got to wait 6 months for hip replacement after shattering his hip.

You get what you pay for
 
2012-12-16 11:18:59 AM
Why would anyone ruin their weekend by getting sick? Save that shiat for a weekday when you can call in sick to work.
 
2012-12-16 11:24:23 AM
Whereas here you just don't get the services unless you would be rich enough to afford supplemental health care in GB anyway. But socialism.
 
2012-12-16 11:25:53 AM
Well. I've got a solution, but it's going to piss the nursing establishment and the IAFF Union boys off.



Community Care Paramedics, and treat and discharge in the field would go a long way towards relieving the burden people have on ERs in modern countries.
 
2012-12-16 11:29:47 AM
But the board has said it will not be forcing doctors to work weekends.

How is it any different here in the US?
 
2012-12-16 11:30:47 AM

CygnusDarius: Soshalzm!


Something like 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, the system works.
 
2012-12-16 11:33:14 AM
this is our future...
 
2012-12-16 11:33:47 AM

offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?


Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.
 
2012-12-16 11:34:14 AM

uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"


Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....
 
2012-12-16 11:35:54 AM

diaphoresis: Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays...


And anyone with an emergency can too in the UK.

Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.
 
2012-12-16 11:37:09 AM
I used to occasionally get "sick on weekends." But then I stopped drinking vodka/redbulls. DNRTFA
 
2012-12-16 11:37:40 AM
But if people don't work the weekend to serve my needs then they are violating my rights.
 
2012-12-16 11:37:48 AM
If your sick on the weekend they should let you have Monday off.
 
2012-12-16 11:40:41 AM

diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....


So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)
 
2012-12-16 11:42:31 AM

BronyMedic: diaphoresis: Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays...

And anyone with an emergency can too in the UK.

Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.


so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

/Going to the doctor with sniffles, you would be right
//Paper cut? You'd be right again.
 
2012-12-16 11:43:10 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: That's easy, they just need to wait.

Grandfather-in-law got to wait 6 months for hip replacement after shattering his hip.


That probably just means that they had to wait for the fracture to heal before replacing the hip joint.
 
2012-12-16 11:43:13 AM
I find it weird that they don't. A lot of the stuff in hospitals (X-Ray machines, MRI scanners etc) cost a farking fortune. The buildings, cleaning etc are all high fixed costs.

Look at hotels - they run 7 days a week and always aim for maximum occupancy (which is why hotels are so cheap in cities on weekends). At present, we're missing out on at least 2/7ths of capacity (and if you include evenings, even more than that).
 
2012-12-16 11:44:11 AM

uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)


What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".
 
2012-12-16 11:44:50 AM
These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.
 
2012-12-16 11:44:54 AM

lewismarktwo: Whereas here you just don't get the services unless you would be rich enough to afford supplemental health care in GB anyway. But socialism.


Here if you are rich enough to pay for private treatment, you get to pay twice. But conservatism, I guess.
 
2012-12-16 11:48:48 AM
I can understand why you'd want X-Ray, CT, and such on the weekends for emergencies, but why "routine surgery"? That shiat can wait until Monday, I'm sure.


diaphoresis: so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..


Go talk to some ER staff or EMTs. A lot of people who either don't have primary care docs (for whatever reason) or can't see them because they're closed end up showing up at the ER for crap. And, of course, they can't look at them and say "Are you farking stupid?" and just send them home. And that doesn't count the people just looking to score some free painkillers.

/if you're not broken or bleeding
 
2012-12-16 11:48:56 AM

diaphoresis: so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

/Going to the doctor with sniffles, you would be right
//Paper cut? You'd be right again.


No, it really is. Back when BronyMedic was an EMT, studies showed that less than 9% of people who called 911 for a condition which they were transported for were classified as a true "Medical Emergency", that is immediate intervention in an ER and by the EMS team were necessary to ensure their continued survival. The source for this is the 2004 ED of the AAOS EMT Textbook.

The majority of presentations to an ER can be handled in an Urgent Care or Fast Track care setting, and this is the reason that so many ERs have opened these setups now.

Treating Chronic Pain properly would go a LONG way towards preventing a lot of these unnecessary ER visits. Community Care Paramedics who can treat and release in the field, or treat and follow-up to a clinic would be a help too, but thanks to various union efforts against Paramedic Education in the United States, only two States have that scope of practice for their Paramedics.

The fact of the matter is that most people who present to an ER on the weekends do not need ER care. That is why they set in triage for hours waiting to even get a room, versus immediately seeing a doctor. (Waiting is good, by the way. It means you're not about to die according to the ESI Triage Scale)
 
2012-12-16 11:49:17 AM

BronyMedic: Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.


Patient convenience is a secondary consideration here. Operating theatres, MRI scanners, ICU beds and other equipment are expensive investments. It makes sense to use them as much as possible, and not just from 9 - 5 on weekdays. Some specialities already work round the clock: when my grandmother broke both hips in a fall the NHS gave her nice new ones in an operation which started at about 2am.

And, of course, if you're on the transplant list and a suitable heart / liver / kidney / lung / whatever becomes available on a Sunday morning, that's when you get the message, grab your bag and head for the hospital as fast as you can.
 
2012-12-16 11:49:59 AM
US health system is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick but not rich
 
2012-12-16 11:50:18 AM

BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.


So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?
 
2012-12-16 11:51:18 AM

offmymeds: So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?


Because you pay a premium to do so, and that doctor is in private practice.

You, on the other hand, are not the audience that they're targeting with "free" healthcare anyway. The people who make five dollars an hour, and can barely afford to feed their kids are.
 
2012-12-16 11:53:07 AM

offmymeds: BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.

So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?


Because your doctor doesn't want to work 70 hours a week - he wants to work 50 hours a week, or however many he currently is. Believe it or not, people do not want to work 7 days a week. Preposterous, I know. Most of us get a weekend of some form. The doctors (and nurses, etc, etc) all want one too.
 
2012-12-16 11:54:25 AM

BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.


It's a lot more complicated than that. Doctors are typically employed by "Trusts" which run hospitals and primary clinics. They get paid by the government on the basis of services they provide (probably similar to Medicare, but with less fiddling). There are plenty of private practices, and many of those do work for the NHS as well, or doctors who do some work for the NHS and some privately.

I think there used to be a monolithic Government-Runs-It-All system, way back in the day, but subsequent governments have kept reforming it. There are some conservatives who want to get rid of the whole thing and have a more American system (or at least there used to be until it became apparent how badly that works), but they can't say that outright because of how extremely popular the NHS is. People are really attached to this idea of universal healthcare, free at the point of service. Despite all the bureaucratic crap behind the scenes, a patient can get anything from a routine check-up to full blow long term care without anybody asking "do you have insurance?" or without any money changing hands, and God help any politician who would want to get rid of that. So instead they keep changing things here and there, creating fake "internal markets", adding layers of management to make sure everyone "hits their targets" and a lot of crap like that. Some of it actually helps, but it leaves the whole system a bit complicated and convoluted.
 
2012-12-16 11:54:26 AM

Spade: I can understand why you'd want X-Ray, CT, and such on the weekends for emergencies, but why "routine surgery"? That shiat can wait until Monday, I'm sure.


diaphoresis: so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

Go talk to some ER staff or EMTs. A lot of people who either don't have primary care docs (for whatever reason) or can't see them because they're closed end up showing up at the ER for crap. And, of course, they can't look at them and say "Are you farking stupid?" and just send them home. And that doesn't count the people just looking to score some free painkillers.

/if you're not broken or bleeding


I have spent very little time in ER's (lucky I suppose), but when I have been, it's always seemed people were limping, bloody, had children who were sick, or things of the like. I don't remember seeing anyone who looked uninjured.. seen a few that looked like they sleep on subways, but looked injured nonetheless. Again, not enough knowledge to say 95% of ER visits are unnecessary. I'll have to defer to your entensive knowledge on this one.
 
2012-12-16 11:55:29 AM

orbister: Patient convenience is a secondary consideration here. Operating theatres, MRI scanners, ICU beds and other equipment are expensive investments. It makes sense to use them as much as possible, and not just from 9 - 5 on weekdays. Some specialities already work round the clock: when my grandmother broke both hips in a fall the NHS gave her nice new ones in an operation which started at about 2am.

And, of course, if you're on the transplant list and a suitable heart / liver / kidney / lung / whatever becomes available on a Sunday morning, that's when you get the message, grab your bag and head for the hospital as fast as you can.


The problem is that you're describing very limited resources, like MRI scanners and ICU care. They have to be rationed out as necessary to allow them to help the most people possible. There's nothing worse than having to take a very sick patient to another hospital because they can't get the ICU care they need at that hospital, or they have a time critical condition for which they were taken to the wrong hospital for. (I.e. STEMI in a hospital with no cath lab, Stroke in a facility with no Neuro care)

An ICU bed is not just another bed, either It requires specially trained nurses, doctors, and allied health personnel who are above and beyond your average floor nurse or RT in terms of experience, training, and knowledge. It requires more of them, too, as patient to care provider ratios are less.

At any rate, you're describing time critical emergency situations. Many of those doctors take call shifts at their hospital, or come in from home when the ER attending sees they need that care. Most people who present to the ER, above 90% of them, are not those cases.
 
2012-12-16 11:55:37 AM

BronyMedic: Treating Chronic Pain properly Socialism would go a LONG way towards preventing a lot of these unnecessary ER visits.


Try it. You'll like it.
 
2012-12-16 11:57:11 AM

skinink: These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.


I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.
 
2012-12-16 11:57:55 AM

diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)

What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".


That I was in before it. Which I wasn't. You jumped on me regarding being afraid of facts. Which I'm not. Even if you had presented any. Which you didn't.

nice try, though.
 
2012-12-16 11:59:31 AM

orbister: ronyMedic: Treating Chronic Pain properly Socialism would go a LONG way towards preventing a lot of these unnecessary ER visits.

Try it. You'll like it.


i4.ytimg.com

You do know the philosophy of social democracy and altruistic support of the poor and disadvantaged is completely different than Socialism, right?

/facepalm

farkeruk: I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.


You will never remove the human factor from medicine. There's a reason WHY it's considered both an art and a science.
 
2012-12-16 12:01:39 PM

orbister: BronyMedic: Treating Chronic Pain properly Socialism would go a LONG way towards preventing a lot of these unnecessary ER visits.

Try it. You'll like it.


The UN-cola
 
2012-12-16 12:02:20 PM

diaphoresis: BronyMedic: diaphoresis: Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays...

And anyone with an emergency can too in the UK.

Let's be frank here. 95% of the people who want to see a doctor on Saturday are not a medical emergency, or even a time critical condition.

so, tough it out til Monday? Pull up your bootstraps and hang tough? I don't have enough data to suggest what types/kinds of injuries require 'immediate attention', but I'm guessing it's not 95% bs..

/Going to the doctor with sniffles, you would be right
//Paper cut? You'd be right again.


Liberals will make up statistics to defend their ridiculous stands.
 
2012-12-16 12:02:36 PM

uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)

What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".

That I was in before it. Which I wasn't. You jumped on me regarding being afraid of facts. Which I'm not. Even if you had presented any. Which you didn't.

nice try, though.


Hmmm.. circular argument. Not suprising.
 
2012-12-16 12:06:25 PM

Nemo's Brother: Liberals will make up statistics to defend their ridiculous stands.


Really? It's funny then that the universal majority of people who use an ER are people with unmanaged or poorly managed chronic health conditions on Medicaid and Medicare.

The problem is so bad now that State Medicaid Agencies are now refusing to pay ERs for their care unless the ER can demonstrate the patient was seen for a medically necessary condition.
 
2012-12-16 12:07:37 PM

farkeruk: skinink: These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.

I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.


Are you farking kidding me? There are four nurses in my immediate family (+1 first cousin). They are some of the kindest, caring people I have ever met. The fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has told stories of 14 hour shifts where they didnt even has so much as time to pee, let alone eat anything leads me to believe you are either lying your ass off or have had the unbelievable luck to the see the same sour-assed three nurses your entire life.

Personally at some point in a 14 hour shift I would have told my patients to fark off because I'm going to eat a sandwich while sitting on a toilet for the next 3 minutes... but that's just me.
 
2012-12-16 12:08:09 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: US health system is trying to figure out what to do about people who are sick but not rich


Die in the street like the founding fathers intended, because freedom.
 
2012-12-16 12:11:41 PM
No such problem.
Getting sick is not in the five-year plan.
 
2012-12-16 12:12:01 PM

Fizpez: Are you farking kidding me? There are four nurses in my immediate family (+1 first cousin). They are some of the kindest, caring people I have ever met. The fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has told stories of 14 hour shifts where they didnt even has so much as time to pee, let alone eat anything leads me to believe you are either lying your ass off or have had the unbelievable luck to the see the same sour-assed three nurses your entire life.


THIS. So much this.

For all you know, that nurse was having a bad day because she just had to code an infant, or she's had to deal with the same drug seeker that comes in every night and gets abusive with staff.

It's hilarious that so many people think a computer or robot will take the place of anyone in Healthcare. A computer will tell you that a patient has an elevated white count. It won't tell you if it's because they have an infection, if it's because they're dehydrated, or if it's because they've just had a stress response from the seizure they just had. Computers can be used to support clinical decisions, but it will always be a human being making those decisions in the end, because medicine is NOT an exact science, and 95% of your patients will NOT fit a textbook case description.

I've also yet to see someone tell me when a robot is going to be able to do something as "simple" as place an IV in a patient.
 
2012-12-16 12:12:39 PM

Fizpez: farkeruk: skinink: These doctors make how much money, but they can't work weekends? Poor minimum wage retail workers probably work one weekend day, if not both.

I'm going to have zero sympathy when robotic surgery and automatic diagnosis take over. Doctors are some of the most entitled motherfarkers I have ever dealt with and nurses are some of the most arrogant people I've dealt with. Had a serious medical problem for months and kept going back. Not once did I feel like they were doing any more than the minimum they had to. And a lot of them are useless at diagnosis. They just guess at things rather than asking for a full set of symptoms.

Are you farking kidding me? There are four nurses in my immediate family (+1 first cousin). They are some of the kindest, caring people I have ever met. The fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has told stories of 14 hour shifts where they didnt even has so much as time to pee, let alone eat anything leads me to believe you are either lying your ass off or have had the unbelievable luck to the see the same sour-assed three nurses your entire life.

Personally at some point in a 14 hour shift I would have told my patients to fark off because I'm going to eat a sandwich while sitting on a toilet for the next 3 minutes... but that's just me.



The same bell curve or people from your high school is in every profession. Every profession. Reducing people in a profession to an archetype is folly. Whether they are soldiers, bankers, nurses, doctors, or supermarket checkout people. The are good ones, bad ones, charitable ones, biatchy ones, etc... in every slice.

/hell some of the 9/11 first responders were looting for jebus sake, and look at how they have been reduced to the abstract...
 
2012-12-16 12:13:59 PM

BafflerMeal: The same bell curve or people from your high school is in every profession. Every profession. Reducing people in a profession to an archetype is folly. Whether they are soldiers, bankers, nurses, doctors, or supermarket checkout people. The are good ones, bad ones, charitable ones, biatchy ones, etc... in every slice.

/hell some of the 9/11 first responders were looting for jebus sake, and look at how they have been reduced to the abstract...


People forget that anyone, from cops to doctors to the guy serving your burgers at McDonalds, are human beings, no matter how noble their profession is.

Human beings with emotions and purely human factors driving behavior.
 
2012-12-16 12:15:24 PM

NotoriousFire: offmymeds: BronyMedic: offmymeds: How is it any different here in the US?

Because MDs that work in hospitals and most clinics in UK are typically employed by the NHS as Government Employees, unless they are in private practice which isn't very common.

So why can't I get in to see my doctor on the weekend instead of having to go to either an emergency room or an "urgent care" location when I have a health related issue that isn't an emergency?

Because your doctor doesn't want to work 70 hours a week - he wants to work 50 hours a week, or however many he currently is. Believe it or not, people do not want to work 7 days a week. Preposterous, I know. Most of us get a weekend of some form. The doctors (and nurses, etc, etc) all want one too.


I'm not saying that nobody deserves a break from their work. I would imagine that to be doubly so for those in the health services field. What I'm trying to get at is that there's got to be a way, for instance, to get my blood pressure meds refilled without having to wait 2 days (the weekend) before my doctor okays it. Am I supposed to go to the ER or an Urgent Care for this?
 
2012-12-16 12:16:49 PM

diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: diaphoresis: uttertosh: in before "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1"

Afraid of the facts, are we? I can see a doctor even on Sundays.....

So can I. Your point is WHAR (?)

What was YOUR point? Oh yeah.. "ERMERGHERD SERCHERLESM!!1".

That I was in before it. Which I wasn't. You jumped on me regarding being afraid of facts. Which I'm not. Even if you had presented any. Which you didn't.

nice try, though.

Hmmm.. circular argument. Not suprising.


Ah, ad homenim rhetorical retort. Not surprising.
 
Displayed 50 of 130 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report