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(Wired)   Well, the Constitution was nice while it lasted   (wired.com) divider line 33
    More: Sad, attorney generals, National Counterterrorism Center, Abdulmutallab, NCTC, Kim Zetter, registered sex offender, fantasy films, UK Threat Levels  
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13665 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Dec 2012 at 12:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-12-16 12:58:28 PM
3 votes:
i224.photobucket.com
2012-12-16 12:40:06 PM
3 votes:
It's a good thing that at least someone thinks this is a problem.

I'll say it again: It's a GOOD thing that at least someone thinks this is a problem.

Now you righttards and wingnuts who hate B. Hussein Osama's guts, answer me this: If you want B. Hussein Osama gone so badly, why don't you go after him on the surveillance state? On the War on Terra?
2012-12-16 02:52:47 PM
2 votes:

1derful: U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.


i560.photobucket.com

Here, have some more soma. Uncle Sam is buying.
2012-12-16 01:25:29 PM
2 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: vygramul: I sometimes have to wonder if people in those positions lose perspective or are genuinely frightened by the threats. I knew a libbiest lib that ever libbed lifetime liberal lib who got a job dealing with the threat of terrorism coming across our borders and became a rabid "OMG SEAL THE BORDERS!" person based not on they're stealing our jobs, not on the notion that law and morality were the same so, by definition, being an illegal alien made you a bad person, and not based on concerns over their not integrating. It was purely a reaction to terrorism.

So is it a result of their being too close to the problem, or is it because the threat is that grave? I suspect too close to the problem.

I'd go with too close to the problem.

CSB: My sister used to date a cop. I remember always being surprised at how he immediately assumed people were up to something nefarious if they were doing anything even remotely out of the ordinary. I remember one time we were driving through the country and passed a guy walking along the roadside, and he muttered "WTF is this asshole doing? Probably stealing corn." I asked him if he realized these were feed corn, not sweet corn fields, and that he wasn't carrying any sort of bags, so he'd be able to steal an armload of corn that people basically can't eat, then he'd have to walk it wherever he wanted to take it. Perhaps if he wanted to steal corn wouldn't it make more sense to just pull over his car, open the trunk, and throw a bunch in before driving away? He was still convinced the guy was up to something wrong.


I think it's more fundamental than that- it's the " you have to be lucky every time" effect.

Imagine you're the head of anti- terrorism efforts in the US. You've created the best group there's ever been- you've stopped hundreds of bombings, hijackings, shootings, and so forth. You've captured smuggled plutonium and sarin gas shipments. You've identified hundreds of possible attackers and had drones visit them before they become threats to US citizens.

And then one guy gets past you and kills a few thousand people.

You're now the guy who failed to prevent the biggest attack since 9/11. The blood of those people is on your hands. You're going to be dragged in front of endless groups to explain your complete failure at your job. You'll be studied in textbooks that show people how not to be like you.

Yeah, I can see why they'd be asking for ever more information and power.
2012-12-16 01:17:34 PM
2 votes:
Until Americans make it an issue, no politician is going to do a damn thing about civil liberties. A few might give it some lip service while they're hoping to unseat another politician, but once they get that power, they're extremely unlikely to give it up.

What I don't get is why liberals will defend the Obama administration for so much of the same stuff that was horrible when Bush was doing it. It reeks of petty home-team loyalties. Granted, there is a whole subset of liberals, myself included, who are firmly against such policies, no matter who the president is, but we're often called Republicans or viewed as so far out of the mainstream as to be unrealistic and just plain loopy.

Sad, really.
2012-12-16 12:37:17 PM
2 votes:
We can thank thoughtful insights such as "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" for shiat like this.
2012-12-16 12:35:30 PM
2 votes:
Jokes on you America. The "secret" database is called Facebook.
2012-12-16 12:35:28 PM
2 votes:
shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.
2012-12-16 11:30:57 AM
2 votes:
Information shared with a third party was never private or protected information. It's concerning, but it's not unconstitutional. We need to revisit privacy laws and make them explicit.
2012-12-16 11:20:30 AM
2 votes:
>Reads headline.
>Reads article.

upload.wikimedia.org

Good morning America. The year is 1935, and I would like to introduce you to a new force for Law Enforcement in the United States, the FBI.

/It's cute you think this started with Obama.
2012-12-16 11:14:11 AM
2 votes:
I gotta be honest and say I find these sort of abstract intrusions on civil rights pretty hard to care about. All this information is out there, I can't really say it gets me mad they are just compiling it.
2012-12-16 09:18:58 AM
2 votes:
Change we can believe in
2012-12-17 02:27:05 AM
1 votes:

ChuDogg: Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.


If you trust any politician, you are an idiot.
2012-12-16 04:05:09 PM
1 votes:
Does anybody else wonder why Eric Holder has a 1980's pornstache?

I think that's the really important question here.
2012-12-16 03:46:03 PM
1 votes:
This may be unfortunate in that it might leave room for error and abuse, but it's not unconstitutional and hardly unprecedented in function. For a bunch of people who readily gave out all of this info to private companies whose sole reason for requesting it is to make more money off of them, the black helicopter eyebrow raising is a bit over the top.
2012-12-16 02:16:36 PM
1 votes:

whistleridge: But this...this is truly disturbing.


...and I would be scared if our benevolent, caring, mom and pop multinational corporations didn't do even more prying into your private life every single day...and lobby to get said prying waved away as "freedom of speech".
2012-12-16 01:56:05 PM
1 votes:

Spade: Yeah, I mean, look at how fast they crushed Iraq and Afghanistan.


Firstly, there is absolutely nothing in common between the American people and those in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those people have been in a constant state of war or invasion for centuries. We cry when the garbage doesn't come on memorial day. Second, the US took Iraq and Afghanistan in about 20 minutes. Sure there were uprisings and US soldiers' deaths but as far as invasions go they were pretty farking easy.

So you can show your ass about how many guns Americans have and that the government better watch out but you and I and everyone else knows that you're not going to do shiat and the government will do whatever the fark they want. So sit down and watch American Idol, biatch.
2012-12-16 01:46:58 PM
1 votes:

1derful: Mugato: 1derful: shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.

Yeah, like you're ever going to do anything. The government is scared shiatless of you.

U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.


No. It really doesn't.

The number of Real Americans that would raise up in arms against "tyranny" would pale to the number that think "WTF are these idiots doing?" The "patriots" will be seen as domestic terrorists and opposed by an overwhelming majority, who will be backed by the military, and the "revolutionaries" will get squashed like bug (with about as much effort).
2012-12-16 01:42:35 PM
1 votes:

1derful: Mugato: 1derful: shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.

Yeah, like you're ever going to do anything. The government is scared shiatless of you.

U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.


U.S. Government has far more impressive weaponry than any number of citizens.
2012-12-16 01:42:21 PM
1 votes:

1derful: Mugato: 1derful: shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.

Yeah, like you're ever going to do anything. The government is scared shiatless of you.

U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.


"Funny!"ed.
2012-12-16 01:41:26 PM
1 votes:

1derful: LasersHurt: 1derful: shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.

Someone might have some data on you, so you should be ready to kill?

When there are people like you who have no problem with a government spying on it's own people, it's good to have a deterrent to extreme overreach.


Nice rebuttal, but I didn't say anything about having "no problem" with a government spying on it's people.

Curious: LasersHurt: We can search databases = "dossier on every citizen"?

Does anyone have any reactions to this that aren't reactionary fear?

i do. you have any idea just how much wrong info is in those databases? and how hard it is to even see it, let alone fix it? that's a problem when "the government" will be making decisions based on that info.


Do YOU know what's "in those databases"? And how hard it is to see? Or what decisions might be made? What's even being looked for? Anything specific?
2012-12-16 01:36:45 PM
1 votes:

1derful: Mugato: 1derful: shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.

Yeah, like you're ever going to do anything. The government is scared shiatless of you.

U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.


img27.imageshack.us

img21.imageshack.us

img690.imageshack.us


If the government ever gets serious about totalitarianism we're farked.
2012-12-16 01:29:42 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: 1derful: shiat like this is why the right to bear arms and distrust of government is a good thing.

Yeah, like you're ever going to do anything. The government is scared shiatless of you.


U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.
2012-12-16 01:23:01 PM
1 votes:

gadian: My dossier would be a list of dirty websites I've visited and a comment that I eat too much junk food and could really use a few laps around the block.


Pretty easy to put together, too, considering the Wired article has at least 15 demographic tracking tags, along with at least 7 on this page.
2012-12-16 01:07:13 PM
1 votes:

Krieghund:

I came here to say this and to post a picture of J. Edgar Hoover.


Cute.
We now have Carter V2.0 as president and Hoover V2.0 as AG.

Yes, this is exactly the change we can believe in.
2012-12-16 12:48:30 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: I sometimes have to wonder if people in those positions lose perspective or are genuinely frightened by the threats. I knew a libbiest lib that ever libbed lifetime liberal lib who got a job dealing with the threat of terrorism coming across our borders and became a rabid "OMG SEAL THE BORDERS!" person based not on they're stealing our jobs, not on the notion that law and morality were the same so, by definition, being an illegal alien made you a bad person, and not based on concerns over their not integrating. It was purely a reaction to terrorism.

So is it a result of their being too close to the problem, or is it because the threat is that grave? I suspect too close to the problem.


I'd go with too close to the problem.

CSB: My sister used to date a cop. I remember always being surprised at how he immediately assumed people were up to something nefarious if they were doing anything even remotely out of the ordinary. I remember one time we were driving through the country and passed a guy walking along the roadside, and he muttered "WTF is this asshole doing? Probably stealing corn." I asked him if he realized these were feed corn, not sweet corn fields, and that he wasn't carrying any sort of bags, so he'd be able to steal an armload of corn that people basically can't eat, then he'd have to walk it wherever he wanted to take it. Perhaps if he wanted to steal corn wouldn't it make more sense to just pull over his car, open the trunk, and throw a bunch in before driving away? He was still convinced the guy was up to something wrong.
2012-12-16 12:40:19 PM
1 votes:
Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.
2012-12-16 12:27:29 PM
1 votes:
For all the cumulative bullshiat that asshole has done, he belongs in prison.
2012-12-16 12:19:32 PM
1 votes:
If this is the type of thing that kills the Constitution, then the Constitution has been dead for a looooooong time, subby
2012-12-16 12:12:38 PM
1 votes:

unlikely: A bunch of us filed requests with the FBI to see what files they had on us. What came back was somewhere between surprising and "why do you waste your time with this?"

Anyone who thinks this article is something new doesn't remember the cold war or was ridiculously naive.


This. We've always violated the constitution throughout our country's history. Yet we like to fetishize the constitution and our treatment of it. Instead, we should honestly look at what we've done in the past and try to live up to the constitution (or change what we don't like about it) rather than reflecting back on glory days that never existed.
2012-12-16 11:06:14 AM
1 votes:
A bunch of us filed requests with the FBI to see what files they had on us. What came back was somewhere between surprising and "why do you waste your time with this?"

Anyone who thinks this article is something new doesn't remember the cold war or was ridiculously naive.
2012-12-16 10:26:21 AM
1 votes:

Bontesla: cman: Change we can believe in

You think that this didn't occur before?


Obama has changed absolutely nothing. Nothing! And they want their country back now that it's socialist.
2012-12-16 09:52:34 AM
1 votes:

cman: Change we can believe in


You think that this didn't occur before?
 
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