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(Wired)   Well, the Constitution was nice while it lasted   (wired.com) divider line 194
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13666 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Dec 2012 at 12:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-16 05:10:59 PM

Mugato: Those people have been in a constant state of war or invasion for centuries


No they haven't. This is just Republican "I'm going to pretend I know history and whatever claim I make is automatically true" rhetoric.
 
2012-12-16 05:11:20 PM
The dick licker is a Democrat, so don't expect any outrage from the usual suspects who protested every slight move that Atty Gen John Ashcroft made.


The Left has zero credibility.
 
2012-12-16 05:20:27 PM

Crude: The dick licker is a Democrat, so don't expect any outrage from the usual suspects who protested every slight move that Atty Gen John Ashcroft made.


Why do Republicans always bring up fellatio?
 
2012-12-16 05:22:56 PM
1. I don't like it.
2. Yawn, it doesn't sound like a violation of the fourth.
 
2012-12-16 05:33:42 PM

1derful: U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.


This is cute that you think this.

www.airforce-technology.com



Those guns mean nothing when a single sortee can level an entire city.
 
2012-12-16 05:54:17 PM
Mugato
Yeah I've heard of it. And it worked against the US.....in Viet Nam. Kind of a completely different set of circumstances than the scenario the survivalist nuts are beating off to.

Do you mean that guerrilla warfare can't beat an invasion specifically, although it might beat an occupation?


BronyMedic
Those guns mean nothing when a single sortee can level an entire city.

One second later, the military would stop functioning.
 
2012-12-16 05:56:41 PM

Crude: The dick licker is a Democrat, so don't expect any outrage from the usual suspects who protested every slight move that Atty Gen John Ashcroft made.


The Left has zero credibility.


Well, at least 0 > -1.
 
2012-12-16 06:04:37 PM

machoprogrammer: LasersHurt: Do you even know *exactly* what shiat is being done? I mean it, could you demonstrate an understanding of what this news is about?

Well, reading the article, it states:

Earlier this year, Attorney General Eric Holder granted the center the ability to copy entire government databases holding information on flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and other data, and to store it for up to five years, even without suspicion that someone in the database has committed a crime, according to the Wall Street Journal, which broke the story.

Whereas previously the law prohibited the center from storing data compilations on U.S. citizens unless they were suspected of terrorist activity or were relevant to an ongoing terrorism investigation, the new powers give the center the ability to not only collect and store vast databases of information but also to trawl through and analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior in order to uncover activity that could launch an investigation.

That would state that, yes, the Democrats are behind it. Or is Eric Holder now a Republican?


When did I ever say anything about Democrats? Who are you arguing with?
 
2012-12-16 06:05:20 PM

RanDomino: Mugato
Yeah I've heard of it. And it worked against the US.....in Viet Nam. Kind of a completely different set of circumstances than the scenario the survivalist nuts are beating off to.

Do you mean that guerrilla warfare can't beat an invasion specifically, although it might beat an occupation?


I'm saying the scenario is bullshiat to begin with because it's never going to happen. Ever. And if it did (and it won't), it would not be the same as a half assed military operation half way around the world. It would be a collection of rednecks against the entire US military, every law enforcement agency in the country and other rednecks loyal to the government. It's just something that will never happen no matter how out of line the government gets.
 
2012-12-16 06:09:50 PM

RanDomino: BronyMedic
Those guns mean nothing when a single sortee can level an entire city.

One second later, the military would stop functioning.


You're assuming that at the point they're capable of doing this to their own citizens, that the United States Government resembles what it does today. There's a reason why Tyranny of the Majority is so terrifying.

Everyone thought the same thing in Germany, too, before Hitler came into power.
 
2012-12-16 06:14:26 PM
BronyMedic
You're assuming that at the point they're capable of doing this to their own citizens, that the United States Government resembles what it does today. There's a reason why Tyranny of the Majority is so terrifying.

Everyone thought the same thing in Germany, too, before Hitler came into power.


How many German cities did Hitler bomb?
 
2012-12-16 06:33:45 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Crude: The dick licker is a Democrat, so don't expect any outrage from the usual suspects who protested every slight move that Atty Gen John Ashcroft made.

Why do Republicans always bring up fellatio?


They secretly like the cock.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
2012-12-16 06:42:10 PM

BronyMedic: 1derful: U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.

This is cute that you think this.

[www.airforce-technology.com image 550x317]



Those guns mean nothing when a single sortee can level an entire city.


We are dealing with a hypothetical situation that's unlikely to occur in the foreseeable future. It would take more then just a President who's a tad more trigger happy then normal. It would demand an extremely radical/reactionary movement that is both willing and able to use violence to achieve their agenda to take power on a significant scale. As it stands aside from a handful of psychopaths, no one is actually willing to pull the trigger no matter how much they might fantasize about it.

The government isn't some monolithic entity capable of one day saying "Okay, now it's time to oppress the masses", we would need people in power that actually want to oppress the masses on a significant scale, and those people would have to be insufficiently opposed. This is not exactly something that can happen overnight.
 
2012-12-16 06:48:04 PM

Bontesla: cman: Change we can believe in

You think that this didn't occur before?


See also COINTELPRO.
 
2012-12-16 07:11:21 PM
BronyMedic: 1derful: U.S. citizens own over 300 million firearms. That deters government totalitarianism.

This is cute that you think this.

[www.airforce-technology.com image 550x317]

Those guns mean nothing when a single sortee can level an entire city.


The US government doesn't have to defeat its own territory, it has to occupy it. Note that even in a situation where the enemy insurgents are relatively isolated from friendly populations in, say, Afghanistan, all our uses of air power basically amount to killing innocent civilians left and right. Not really something you'd generally be willing to do on your own turf unless you're pretty desperate.
 
2012-12-16 07:15:35 PM
Holder considers us all enemies of the state.
 
2012-12-16 07:34:21 PM

oryx: Holder considers us all enemies of the state.


Well, he's half right, at least.
 
2012-12-16 07:47:43 PM

coco ebert: unlikely: A bunch of us filed requests with the FBI to see what files they had on us. What came back was somewhere between surprising and "why do you waste your time with this?"

Anyone who thinks this article is something new doesn't remember the cold war or was ridiculously naive.

This. We've always violated the constitution throughout our country's history. Yet we like to fetishize the constitution and our treatment of it. Instead, we should honestly look at what we've done in the past and try to live up to the constitution (or change what we don't like about it) rather than reflecting back on glory days that never existed.


It's not that I've ever believed that the government always respected the constitution, it's just that, in the past, the government at least pretended to. Now they openly defy it, and don't back down when the citizens become widely aware of it, and grow ever more vocal in opposition to it. This is the visible milestone I have my eyes on.

1) break the law in secret, by special interpretation if necessary. 2) if caught, lie about breaking the law. 3) shrug off criticism, saying "noone's followed that law for a long time". 4) change the law, by force if necessary, effective retroactively if you're feeling especially brazen. 5) break other laws that were slightly more important than the one in #1. 6) repeat forever, until it is cheap and easy to keep the citizens in line, and the best roast beef on your banquet table.

We're somewhere between #3 and #4, with regard to our Constitution.
 
2012-12-16 07:50:03 PM

LasersHurt: Superjoe: This would concern me if I thought the government was organized enough to make any sense out of all that information. This comes across to me as bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake.

It's to allow correlation of information we already gather. Data is best used when compared and correlated.


Agrees:
images.zap2it.com
Hot like the latest number
 
2012-12-16 07:51:12 PM

RanDomino: BMulligan
In case you haven't noticed, the people are the government.

4/10, too obvious


Fark you. You're a bad American.
 
2012-12-16 08:02:20 PM

LasersHurt: machoprogrammer: LasersHurt: Do you even know *exactly* what shiat is being done? I mean it, could you demonstrate an understanding of what this news is about?

Well, reading the article, it states:

Earlier this year, Attorney General Eric Holder granted the center the ability to copy entire government databases holding information on flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and other data, and to store it for up to five years, even without suspicion that someone in the database has committed a crime, according to the Wall Street Journal, which broke the story.

Whereas previously the law prohibited the center from storing data compilations on U.S. citizens unless they were suspected of terrorist activity or were relevant to an ongoing terrorism investigation, the new powers give the center the ability to not only collect and store vast databases of information but also to trawl through and analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior in order to uncover activity that could launch an investigation.

That would state that, yes, the Democrats are behind it. Or is Eric Holder now a Republican?

When did I ever say anything about Democrats? Who are you arguing with?


Your reply made me think you were defending Democrats, like Farkers on this tab usually do... What exactly was your point in your original reply?
 
2012-12-16 08:29:02 PM

BronyMedic: RanDomino: BronyMedic
Those guns mean nothing when a single sortee can level an entire city.

One second later, the military would stop functioning.

You're assuming that at the point they're capable of doing this to their own citizens, that the United States Government resembles what it does today. There's a reason why Tyranny of the Majority is so terrifying.

Everyone thought the same thing in Germany, too, before Hitler came into power.


Yeah.

But even at the height of all that, in Warsaw, Poland, Polish resistance members were manufacturing Sten guns that are of a better quality than the British made ones (not a high bar, but still) right under the German occupation.
 
2012-12-16 09:03:03 PM
Yeah. Boy, keeping records on Innocent Americans sure is Unconstitutional. Right there in the Constitution, it says there will absolutely never be a Census in which the government keeps records on you.

Right there!!!! Never!

(Nutcase right? Nutcase left? It hardly matters. You guys are all farktard dumbasses.)
 
2012-12-16 10:01:05 PM

ilambiquated: My sister, who is a mostly harmless drunk, tried to get a job at Home Depot a couple of years ago. Interview went well. But it turns out that the FBI has her on some kind of "watch list", so she was turned down.

She made some effort to figure out what was going on, but learned she had to appear in Atlanta in person to talk to anyone about it. So she gave up.

/True story


If you want to find out if you are on a federal watchlist you have to file a foia request.

I doubt that home depot runs deferal databases and is given interdiction hits.

Forgive my skepticism, but you can't go up to a federal agent and politely ask to be run - they aren't even allowed to run you without work cause.
 
2012-12-16 10:33:08 PM
BMulligan
Fark you. You're a bad American.

well... yeah. At this point you have to be, to be ethical.
 
2012-12-16 11:40:48 PM

Jake Havechek: The GOP has been scared of the commies since Vietnam turned into a totally mismanaged failure.


Joe McCarthy frowns at your oversight, and adds you to his "list."
 
2012-12-16 11:45:46 PM
Empty Matchbook ,

WTF is that comic book? Are you seriously saying there is a comic book where the goddamn batman beats them all, including near-invincible Superman?

/ not much of a comic person
// could batman take aquaman
 
2012-12-16 11:49:46 PM

BronyMedic: >Reads headline.
>Reads article.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x278]

Good morning America. The year is 1935, and I would like to introduce you to a new force for Law Enforcement in the United States, the FBI.

/It's cute you think this started with Obama.


My thoughts exactly.
 
2012-12-17 12:18:14 AM
Hope and change!
 
2012-12-17 12:19:59 AM

vygramul: I sometimes have to wonder if people in those positions lose perspective or are genuinely frightened by the threats. I knew a libbiest lib that ever libbed lifetime liberal lib who got a job dealing with the threat of terrorism coming across our borders and became a rabid "OMG SEAL THE BORDERS!" person based not on they're stealing our jobs, not on the notion that law and morality were the same so, by definition, being an illegal alien made you a bad person, and not based on concerns over their not integrating. It was purely a reaction to terrorism.

So is it a result of their being too close to the problem, or is it because the threat is that grave? I suspect too close to the problem.


Actually, to be fair, us regular citizens don't have access to all the data. We simply don't know how many actual terrorists threats have been stymied by the government.
 
2012-12-17 12:22:06 AM
Love how all the Obama Fellators are making excuses, hand waving, and generally allowing sloppy 2nds, 3rds and 4ths up their asses in addition to the regular blow jobs they are so good at.
 
2012-12-17 12:24:53 AM

ChuDogg: Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.


Do you thoroughly lick the shaft first, or just do away with the foreplay and take it down the throat first thing? Do you include licking the balls and the anus?
 
2012-12-17 12:42:31 AM
Yeah, it's been nearly 12 years now.

constitutiontimes.com
 
2012-12-17 12:48:32 AM

RevMercutio: BronyMedic: >Reads headline.
>Reads article.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x278]

Good morning America. The year is 1935, and I would like to introduce you to a new force for Law Enforcement in the United States, the FBI.

/It's cute you think this started with Obama.

My thoughts exactly.


It's funny you think it even started with J. Edgar Hoover. He just made it more efficient. Try looking up the Palmer Raids.
 
2012-12-17 01:37:17 AM

unlikely: A bunch of us filed requests with the FBI to see what files they had on us. What came back was somewhere between surprising and "why do you waste your time with this?"

Anyone who thinks this article is something new doesn't remember the cold war or was ridiculously naive.


Or doesn't realize that while it used to be illegal for the gov to collect and store data like this they were more than happy to pay companies to do it.
 
2012-12-17 02:27:05 AM

ChuDogg: Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.


If you trust any politician, you are an idiot.
 
2012-12-17 02:32:23 AM

OgreMagi: ChuDogg: Honestly, I am not worried, the last election proved that Republicans will never sit in the Oval Office again, so they will never have the opportunity to misuse their powers (can anybody say *cough*BUSH?*cough)

Sorry Repubs, we have a REAL leader in the presidency now who displays empathy and courage. One who would never misuse his power for personal gain or nefarious purposes. I trust him. And I trust that the use of these powers makes us all a bit safer now. And I sleep better at night knowing we have a competent administration looking into these matters and making the world that much a better place.

If you trust any politician, you are an idiot.


I trust Obama to behave how I expect him to in most situations

Do you mean some other kind of trust?
 
2012-12-17 02:57:43 AM

Crude: The dick licker is a Democrat, so don't expect any outrage from the usual suspects who protested every slight move that Atty Gen John Ashcroft made.


The Left has zero credibility.


So, in your mind, Wired is a Republican-leaning publication.

DEAR EVERYONE TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A (D) VS (R) FIGHT:
Instead of shaking your pompoms for whatever stupid team you imagine yourself part of, let's all agree that this crap is unamerican and let's mutually support institutions that will bring legal and legislative challenges to it.

The ACLU is one such group, as is the EFF. Do you want to join me with them, Crude, or do you have other suggestions?
 
2012-12-17 03:35:27 AM
Woooow. I never go into the politics tab anymore but this thread has been fun!

More! More!
 
2012-12-17 09:42:32 AM
Hmm, is it really that difficult to collect information on people when they willingly post it all over the internet. I'm sure you could build a substantial file on people just based on idiotic tweets and Facebook postings alone (see thread about peoples reaction to Obama preempting SNF)
 
2012-12-17 11:29:17 AM
Sure, OBAMA is such a great chap :) He is more evil than Bush ever was.
 
2012-12-17 01:56:56 PM
I like this rationalization from you all.
we've all had dosiers since the 1910s,
we just didn't know it.
or it doesn't matter since democrats are benevolent.
or it doesn't matter since this information is out there anyway.
god damn you people are a bunch of pricks.
 
2012-12-17 01:57:06 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: BronyMedic:

Good morning America. The year is 1935, and I would like to introduce you to a new force for Law Enforcement in the United States, the FBI.

/It's cute you think this started with Obama.

Lame strawman.

No one says it started with 0bama.

It just has gotten a lot worse under 0bama's "leadership".

or are you saying that you support this?


So you counter a strawman with a strawman? Are you meta, or just dim?
 
2012-12-17 06:40:34 PM

relcec: nnnnnngh. This is the sound of my impotent rage.

 
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