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(Newser)   The morning of one school shooting, another may have been averted: Police arrested a teenager in northern Oklahoma yesterday for allegedly planning a Columbine-style attack on his high school   (newser.com) divider line 69
    More: Scary, Oklahoma, school shootings, Tulsa World, Sammie Chavez, Oklahoma yesterday, .22 Long Rifle, 2nd amendment, high schools  
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8582 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Dec 2012 at 11:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-12-15 11:39:17 PM
6 votes:

Coco LaFemme: What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Improved education and mental health care systems. A stronger societal focus on cultivating the mind and the ability to reason and think critically as well as a societal support system for those who have difficulty coping. I'm not saying that anti-intellectualism and extreme, irrational rhetoric are the causes of such incidents. However, I suspect that they are fertilizer which helps such seeds of violence grow unnoticed until the incidents themselves happen.

And, just like as in disease, this would not stop every possible occurrence, but it should reduce the spread. If you want a vaccine, then that is my suggestion.
2012-12-16 12:28:13 AM
5 votes:

mamoru: Coco LaFemme: What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Improved education and mental health care systems. A stronger societal focus on cultivating the mind and the ability to reason and think critically as well as a societal support system for those who have difficulty coping. I'm not saying that anti-intellectualism and extreme, irrational rhetoric are the causes of such incidents. However, I suspect that they are fertilizer which helps such seeds of violence grow unnoticed until the incidents themselves happen.

And, just like as in disease, this would not stop every possible occurrence, but it should reduce the spread. If you want a vaccine, then that is my suggestion.


I agree with this. While having easy access to guns does not help, but the problem here is one of psychology.

America has a pisspoor idea on psychological help, especially since a lot of our value comes from work that, thanks to the economy, is now easily replaced. We're a nation of people who work hard and play little and see our bodies as something to exhaust either through poor diet or a real lack of medical care. In a weird way, the way we set up our culture is that we are the ultimate disposable commodity to be used, abused, and buried after we finally use up our use as workers. This clashes with our mentality as 'individuals' and 'pioneers' who are supposed to be self-reliant 100% of the time regardless of the consequences, yet supposed to be constantly ambitious enough to live up to a nuclear family mentality regardless of what we really want.

So, in a nutshell, we're self-destructive physically and alienated emotionally/mentally. Is it a farking wonder why some of us snap like this? The sad truth isn't that the American Way of Life (Working yourself to death and living a pre-packaged existence) isn't dying, its that it isn't dying fast enough. We only get one shot at this world, and being a human machine is no way to go about it. Most of us seek solace in addictions. And some of us, sadly, decide to go out in a blaze of violence and death. We can talk about guns all we want and there is a place for that, but the one thing we should be talking about is how we treat ourselves and others. We need free healthcare for everybody. We need psychological care without the stigma. We need to start taking care of ourselves instead of spending our bodies like some kind of bizarre currency. And we need, most of all, to start thinking about others besides ourselves because when someone snaps like this, they can hurt a lot of people. And taking care of others helps prevent or lessen the damage of instances like we saw on Friday.
2012-12-15 11:59:54 PM
5 votes:
Arming citizens is the dumbest idea anyone ever had. People are too f*cking dumb to handle that kind of power and responsibility.
2012-12-15 09:36:53 PM
5 votes:

Coco LaFemme: What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Look in the mirror.

Turn off the TV...or at least the sensationalized coverage as provided by the major networks. The thing that spree shooters want is notoriety in death that they couldn't achieve in life.
2012-12-16 12:07:06 AM
3 votes:

whatshisname: Amos Quito: It's an authoritarian's dream come true, is what it is.

Good God.

Would you rather be living in a cave and looking over your shoulder for the next club to come along and whack you? People are stupid. A civilized society requires rules and regulations.



I'm sure that you're perfectly comfortable in surrendering all ability to resist to this guy

upload.wikimedia.org

But how do you feel about this guy

upload.wikimedia.org

Or this guy

upload.wikimedia.org

Or this guy

upload.wikimedia.org

Or this guy

upload.wikimedia.org

And the inevitable Godwin

upload.wikimedia.org

Ceding to authority may sound like a good idea, but times change, rulers change, and authoritarianism ALWAYS leads to tyranny.

Rights are easy to surrender. Getting them back can be a tad more difficult.
2012-12-15 11:24:55 PM
3 votes:
The only thing that bothers me is this.

What laws 5 years from now will be acted upon and when someone goes "When the fark did that bullshiat get passed into law and who the fark allowed it??" Then someone replies "Back in 2012 when panicky petes begged and pleaded at the feet of the Government to do something about all those shootings this is the result"
2012-12-15 09:29:07 PM
3 votes:
Just curious: can someone link me to a story where a shooter (or potential shooter) was taken down by an armed civilian? Cops don't count.
2012-12-16 04:46:06 AM
2 votes:
Satan's Dumptruck Driver: They NRA (I used to be a member until I got sick of their politics) and other (less politically motivated) shooting groups are *huge* proponents of gun safety and education. If somebody approached them about putting together classes on evading a shooter and surviving a school shooting, I bet you would have hoards of volunteers. The problem based on my small sampling of anti-gun friends is that they want an all-or-none approach-- they want legislation to eliminate the threat. And that's just not a timely or realistic solution.

So your solution is that we must all get firearms training and learn to defend ourselves against mentally ill person with a powerful, fast-shooting gun? Does that actually sound reasonable to you?

Why don't we just expect everyone to be trained in firefighting and have all the necessary equipment, rather than have electrical codes, flame retardant building materials, etc.? Why don't we let people just choose and install their own safety equipment on cars rather than mandating seat belts and air bags?

I don't believe legislation can completely eliminate the threat, but it can sure minimize it. Why is it so unreasonable to want to minimize the threat?

Accepting that mentally ill people are going to go on shooting sprees and we must all learn to defend against them is not a solution.
2012-12-16 01:57:37 AM
2 votes:

kombi: I think its kind of simple. As a gun owner and collector my guns are secure. They are not loaded Ammo is not stored with them. They are locked in a safe in a locked closet. Not put in a nightstand drawer loaded. Cocked and locked. We have a 2nd amendment right to own guns. That does not mean everyone should have them.
If mom would have had her guns stored properly. May not have happened. She might still be alive. There is something that all thees shooters have in common. There crazy. Maybe if mommy and daddy gave a crap and the schools where not afraid to label kids. They might get help. Stereotypes exists for a reason. They are based in truth. Goth kids are usually screwed up. Jocks are ass holes. Cheerleaders ass holes...Goes on and on.


This! I have guns. Not many, but I have a 20g pump shotgun. It's great for killing the occasional rattler that finds it's way onto our property. We also have a Mossberg 715T. A .22 semi-auto that LOOKS just like a M16. Funny because I guarantee that the anti gun nuts would say it's a "assault rifle", even though it is nothing more than a semi-auto .22 repackaged to look like a m16. It is a great little gun that we use for target shooting. Very cheap to shoot, fairly quiet and all around fun. And for Christmas this year my wife is getting a .22 pistol, a Walther p22 in pink. She wants a pistol so she can target shoot with us as she doesn't really like the rifles.

We are not gun nuts, but we as a family like to target shoot. The kids have bb guns and have been taught gun safety from day one. The biggest problem I have with this tragic story is that while the mother purchases these guns legally, they were not secured. As with kombi, our three guns are secured in a gun safe. In addition each has a gun cable lock through the chamber, making it impossible to fire the weapon. The keys for the locks are kept hidden and the ammo is stored in a locked separate location. There are responsible and irresponsible people. Most of own cars. Most of us are responsible with automobiles, however there are some among us that will go our and get drunk, get behind the wheel and kill a family. Should we ban everyone from owning cars because there are those among us who can't be responsible or are just mentally unstable?

What happened at this elementary school is tragic and heart breaking. But for some of you to go on this, "all gun owners are crazy nuts and killings wouldn't happen if no one owned guns"is just plain stupid. I agree that there are those in our society that have no business near a gun. There has to be a system in place to keep then from being able to purchase and own a gun. But we also have to have responsible gun owners, owners who make damn sure that their guns are secure. But denying me and others the right to own firearms because there are some idiots in the world isn't the answer.
2012-12-16 12:48:56 AM
2 votes:

Sirveaux: kombi: ok a knife. cant find the link to the story

You mean this one?

The one where 22 people were injured and not killed?


I understand the sentiment in not wanting all those kids to be dead and all, but everytime somebody calls back to the Chinese story, I'm think people are not really looking at the story. They're not looking at the fact that a man went into a school, and without provocation or warning, just went berserk and attacked a bunch of kids. Right now, it's all "NO GUNS = NO DEATHS!!1!" You want your kids being stabbed? Do you think that those parents feel safe now?
2012-12-16 12:27:24 AM
2 votes:

styckx: The only thing that bothers me is this.

What laws 5 years from now will be acted upon and when someone goes "When the fark did that bullshiat get passed into law and who the fark allowed it??" Then someone replies "Back in 2012 when panicky petes begged and pleaded at the feet of the Government to do something about all those shootings this is the result"


The only law that has a chance in he'll of fixing this is one that implements free mental health services nationwide.
2012-12-16 12:05:59 AM
2 votes:

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Higher taxes on the wealthy to pay for health care? Especially mental health care...

Seriously though, a society based upon competition, where the rules are truly balanced towards those with resources
will create a never ending stream of similar monsters who feel they can't compete

4.bp.blogspot.com

Hot as a spent shell casing
2012-12-15 11:48:30 PM
2 votes:

styckx: The only thing that bothers me is this.

What laws 5 years from now will be acted upon and when someone goes "When the fark did that bullshiat get passed into law and who the fark allowed it??" Then someone replies "Back in 2012 when panicky petes begged and pleaded at the feet of the Government to do something about all those shootings this is the result"



Does anyone REGRET the Patriot Act? The TSA? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan???

No???

Then QUIT trying to inject your reason, foresight and rationality into my emotionally fired frenzy, dude!

You're TOTALLY harshing by buzz.
2012-12-15 11:48:16 PM
2 votes:

fusillade762: Just curious: can someone link me to a story where a shooter (or potential shooter) was taken down by an armed civilian? Cops don't count.


a quick look at google.. i make no promises.

not a shooter... http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-s tabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx

stopped, without shooting the scumbag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

10/1/1997 - Luke Woodham put on a trench coat to conceal a hunting rifle and entered Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. He killed 3 students before vice principal Joel Myrick apprehended him with a Colt .45 without firing.

4/24/1998 - Andrew Wurst attended a middle school dance in Edinboro, Pennsylvania intent on killing a bully but shot wildly into the crowd. He killed 1 student. James Strand lived next door. When he heard the shots he ran over with his 12 gauge shotgun and apprehended the gunman without firing.

12/9/2007 - Matthew J. Murray entered the Youth With A Mission training center in Arvada, Colorado and killed 2 people, then went to the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado killing 2 more. He was shot and injured by church member Jeanne Assam and commit suicide before police arrived.

4/22/2012 - Kiarron Parker opened fire in a church parking lot in Aurora, Colorado. The shooter killed 1 person before being shot and killed by a member of the congregation who was carrying concealed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170728/Two-die-bloody-gun-ba t tle-childrens-soccer-match-raising-death-toll-three.html


and lastly... Most all mass shootings in the USA have been stopped by armed civilians. It's just that many of the armed civilians have been Law Enforcement Officers. Please remember if you are not military you are a civilian, no matter what some Police think.
2012-12-15 11:25:20 PM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: serpent_sky: I guess there aren't really any answers, though...

There are if we can find out the causes for why somebody grows up lacking empathy.

I've been reading up on what Simon Baron-Cohen (yep, Borat's cousin) has written on the subject. Trouble is, it's the sort of work that doesn't lend itself well to politics or TV news yammerfests.


The FBI\current psych theory say it's not about empathy--it's just a delusion issue. You can't work on it as an empathy problem, you have to look at it as a schizophrenia issue. Which can be screened for pretty well, actually.
2012-12-15 10:30:15 PM
2 votes:

serpent_sky: I guess there aren't really any answers, though...


There are if we can find out the causes for why somebody grows up lacking empathy.

I've been reading up on what Simon Baron-Cohen (yep, Borat's cousin) has written on the subject. Trouble is, it's the sort of work that doesn't lend itself well to politics or TV news yammerfests.
2012-12-15 09:39:06 PM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: Coco LaFemme: What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Look in the mirror.

Turn off the TV...or at least the sensationalized coverage as provided by the major networks. The thing that spree shooters want is notoriety in death that they couldn't achieve in life.


I have no problem not watching network or cable news in this country, because I haven't in years. It all sucks. It's either biased left, biased right, or incompetent.
2012-12-18 07:13:15 PM
1 votes:

PunGent: I know knives are dangerous. They're not, however, as dangerous as guns.


What.

No, really. What?

In close quarters combat, knives are FAR more lethal than a gun is in a trained hand.
2012-12-16 04:54:00 PM
1 votes:

Agent Nick Fury: 100 Watt Walrus: Agent Nick Fury: Baloo Uriza: Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Universal healthcare, including mental healthcare.

Really?

Mental healthcare - here is a perscription for your mental health problems - WHAT? He killed twelve people? - Evidently he stopped taking his medication.

How do you make sure all these mental health victims take their 'medications'?

So don't even bother trying, is that what you're saying? What's your solution, o wise one?

Maybe I'm wise enough that I studied enough history to know that there is no solution.

None.

It's the human condition and government has never been able to restrain it.


So don't bother even trying. If there's anybody mental health care would help, it's not worth it unless mental health care would help everybody and cure society of all its ills. So its best not to help anyone.

You're a beautiful human being.
2012-12-16 03:58:42 PM
1 votes:

Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.


No thanks. I do that to the soldiers that return home from war. They're the ones protecting my rights.

/Trolling grieving parents isn't the way I like to get my point across. Thanks for the suggestion though.
2012-12-16 03:48:20 PM
1 votes:

KimNorth: You know what people like you are called???


Yes: Smarter than you.

I'm all for gun rights (I own a Ruger Super Red Hawk .44 with a 7" barrel and a Colt Ace .22LR pistol that I inherited from my father), I'm just not so much of a whiny hypocrite to pretend that those rights don't cost thousands of lives every year, and I'm sure as hell not stupid enough to try and pretend that if this kid didn't have access to guns that he would have found some other way to murder 26 people. Like the guy in China, he would have likely ended up hurting a lot of people, but killing none or at least way fewer than 26. If guns weren't the most efficient means of killing, we wouldn't issue them to our soldiers and law enforcement.

The biggest issue I see with most of the rabid "U CANT TAKE MAH GUNZ" people is that there is no compromise with them. They see it as a completely binary choice: either the government lets us all own as many guns of any type that we want without any restrictions whatsoever, or they ban all firearms completely. Nothing in life is actually like that. If the government passed a law tomorrow that stated that all guns must be kept in locked gun safes when not in use*, that wouldn't violate anyone's 2nd Amendment rights. You would still be allowed to buy, own, and use guns, you'd just have to keep them locked up. If the mouth-breathers would settle down long enough to have intelligent discourse on the matter instead of assuming everything is a precursor to total civilian disarmament, we might actually be able to slow down these shootings while we try and figure out ways to keep people from reaching the point where going on a killing spree becomes the most attractive option.

So, keep touting how unassailable the 2nd Amendment has to be, but don't ever, EVER forget that 18 of those kids died because of it.

*No, I don't think that's a viable option, I'm just using it as an example.
2012-12-16 08:40:47 AM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: Coco LaFemme: What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Look in the mirror.

Turn off the TV...or at least the sensationalized coverage as provided by the major networks. The thing that spree shooters want is notoriety in death that they couldn't achieve in life.


I think you've nailed it here. Film Critic Roger Ebert put it best way back in 2003:

The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them.
I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.
2012-12-16 08:07:57 AM
1 votes:
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7488124/81313934#c81313934" target="_blank">NEDM</a>:</b> <i>PunGent: kombi: What about the story yesterday? I think it was 13 kids killed in Japan or China with a sword?

BAN ALL SHARP METAL.. Think of the children.

China. They were injured, not killed...so not really helping the pro-gun argument.

You are missing the point of that story. A madman snapped and started stabbing and slashing every kid he could get his hands on before security guards took him down. Do you think their parents find that much comfort in that their kids were "merely" injured? Do you think that those kids weren't terrified as he did his butcher's work? That it still didn't hurt like hell? That a knife attack isn't as violent as a shooting, if not more? Their children were attacked by a madman where they thought they were safest outside their own home. They're still going to be living fear for some time regardless.</i>

No, I get the point. And I'm pro-responsible-gun-ownership, btw.

The difference in the two attacks was 20 fatalities, and ZERO fatalities.

Guns ARE more dangerous than knives, that's why we equip our armies with them. Arguing otherwise is just as silly as trying to ban knives, and doesn't really advance the discussion at all.
2012-12-16 05:37:00 AM
1 votes:

mamoru: Improved education and mental health care systems. A stronger societal focus on cultivating the mind and the ability to reason and think critically as well as a societal support system for those who have difficulty coping. I'm not saying that anti-intellectualism and extreme, irrational rhetoric are the causes of such incidents. However, I suspect that they are fertilizer which helps such seeds of violence grow unnoticed until the incidents themselves happen.


In the Newtown case, we have a kid from a wealthy family in a community that places a high value on education - the resources were clearly there to get him the care he needed, but if he refused, which he would be within his rights to do as a legal adult, well...right now we're SOL.

You could have the best-financed mental health system on the planet and if the person won't get help and the courts won't involuntarily commit until it's too late, it's all for nothing.
2012-12-16 05:26:32 AM
1 votes:
Why do you 2nd ammendment lovers always forget about the "well-regulated militia" part? Do you understand that the Constitution was written at a time when the country did not have a standing army and citizens would be called upon to defend the country if necessary?

We have a well-regulated militia to protect us; it's called the army. Feel free to volunteer anytime.
2012-12-16 04:23:30 AM
1 votes:

JohnnyC: Homeschooling my kids is sounding more and more attractive.


A 5 sigma event is a 5 sigma event, even if you eliminate the possibility of a few kinds those events, you have radically altered your lifestyle, and possibly quality, without meaningfully altering your odds of avoiding tragedy. Great misfortune may find anyone anywhere, all that we really control is how we respond should we be forced to confront it. What lesson is more important to pass on; living well in the face of uncertainty, or in fear because of it?
2012-12-16 03:47:20 AM
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


You see "Moonraker"?
2012-12-16 03:22:59 AM
1 votes:

WhyKnot: Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.

If you are an American, I feel sorry for you. As already stated above, the founding fathers knew that in order to limit government, the people needed a way to stand up to the government. Without this check and balance, the govnment would again become too powerful and oppressive. They built resistance into the constitution. In a moment of panic and fear, to strip away one of the greatest gifts given to the American People by the founding fathers, would be tragic. Again, as pointed out above, you may like the president and not worry if he got a little grabby with power...but what if it was GW and his main man Chaney? Would you still feel okay with the president getting a little grabby on power? Once a citizenship is disarmed, only the government has the guns.


I feel sorry for YOU, whyknot, and the state of paranoia you live in? You really think citizens of all those countries with strict gun control are oppressed and powerless against their government? Those poor enslaved folks of England, or Japan? If "freedom" means everyone armed to the tooth and a culture of fear - where people like many in this thread think 20 children's deaths are an acceptable tradeoff if it means you get to protect your home against an intruder who almost certainly doesn't exist - well, fark that: there needs to be limits to these freedoms. I knew a family in that school yesterday. Wait until you know someone this has happened to. It may change your opinion.
2012-12-16 02:42:58 AM
1 votes:

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Beatings.

Kids are not allowed to fight (fists) any more. So they never learn how far is too far. And they never learn respect for their peers or for adults. How do you learn not to hurt others if you've never experienced the pain or humiliation of having your ass rightfully kicked? (I'm not talking about beating your kids, mind you.)

Plus getting your nose broken or grappling during recess is a good release of aggression. Sparring is a natural part of growing up.

What life lessons are learned by having an iPhone confiscated?


If you think kids need to be in fights or abused by adults to learn "how far is too far," you're part of the problem. Kids are certainly, on the whole, over-coddled and over-privledged in modern American society, but smacking them around doesn't teach them anything but that violence is OK and a way to solve problems.

If you have anything to back up this ridiculous assertion, whip us out a link showing a kid with no abuse from adults or other kids who went on to be a psycho killer.

/hoping I've been trolled
2012-12-16 02:13:54 AM
1 votes:

urban.derelict: Gyrfalcon: Well, alternatively you could have figured out what it was that was going on in your life that you were being mugged so often, and done it less.

I'd punch you right in the jaw if you said that to me in person. In the very next line you admit to never having been mugged, right aftr you tell me DONT GET MUGGED


I used to ride the bus from Hollywood to downtown LA at 3 a.m. I went around Sunset and Hollywood Blvd. after dark all the time. I lived alone in L.A. and Long Beach. I never got mugged. Oh, and I'm a girl. I never got raped either, or even harassed.

If you got mugged more than once, I can only assume you weren't being careful. Feel free to try to punch me in the jaw, though.
2012-12-16 02:08:30 AM
1 votes:

mc_madness: Asperger kids are PURE EVIL.


Oh good. It looks like we've got a real turdfest tonight here.
2012-12-16 02:06:49 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: I'm sure that you're perfectly comfortable in surrendering all ability to resist to this guy


I find it interesting that your angle here is entirely focused on whether someone is going to threaten your "rights" when a mass murder incident is either attempted or carried out. Your priorities as a human being (and those reacting like you) are on display here and its very very ugly. If that is your primary concern then you should probably provide some reason anyone rational and humane would listen to your opinion on this at all.
2012-12-16 01:41:34 AM
1 votes:

urban.derelict: rappy: If you own a gun you probably deserve to be there.

what? I deserve to be in prison because I got tired of being f*cking mugged and bought myself a hand gun to protect myself and my home?


Well, alternatively you could have figured out what it was that was going on in your life that you were being mugged so often, and done it less.

I've done a lot of crazy dangerous shiat in my life, but I've never been mugged or even been worried about it. I've also never owned a gun.
2012-12-16 01:34:39 AM
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Spanking our damn spoiled rotten kids, though it will take a generation or two to work.
2012-12-16 01:24:51 AM
1 votes:
Link

zvoidx: Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Perhaps, on some level, they're seeking a rush/chemical change in the brain that is achieved, or at least they think will be achieved, by going through with a shooting.


I bet they fantasize, going through how they think it will go and how people react, for days on end. Hour after hour of living it before they go through with it. This way they have lived it so much that killing oneself is logical, they've already had the pleasure many times over. If they are not fully delusional* they may have several grudges [with real people] that they also re-live repeatedly.They think of what would be the best revenge for the grudge and go over it many times, getting their jollies finally getting even etc.

* I am talking delusional as thought processes that are not logical nor make sense even in the affected's mind.

That is my guesses about what this type of person goes through before they commit the crimes.

Calling them "crazy" and forgetting about it just makes it worse.

They are just as human as you and I . The question is how did they start with their disordered thinking? What caused it? Then, most important, medically, psychologically do something to prevent or mollify such anti-social [to the point of planning killings] feelings and thoughts. Someone needs to do that. It may not be you [who just call it "crazy" and walk away] but this is what psychologists are for. Here is a great post on why stigmatizing mental illness just brings more shooters to the fore. http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymiller/2012/12/14/when-you-tie-shoot ings-to-mental-illness/ "But I'm asking you-begging you, really, to not decide that Lanza had a mental illness. I'm asking you not to make "being a good person" the standard for mentally healthy.
Do not try to rationalize this away with mental illness. Stop talking about how it could have been schizophrenia, stop saying he had to have mental health issues. You do not know.
You do not know his state of mind. When you decide to armchair quarterback him, to stamp him with an "obvious" diagnosis, do you know what you are saying?"  Here is a terrible thing. The only thing that could possibly cause someone to do such a terrible, tragic thing is to have This Disorder. Because only people with This Disorder could be so dangerous/awful/scary.
2012-12-16 01:24:21 AM
1 votes:

12349876: Gulper Eel: There are if we can find out the causes for why somebody grows up lacking empathy.

Because their amygdalae don't work. Duh. What to do about that is the hard part.


I think the problem is more in the insula and mediolateral prefrontal cortex, as far as I recall.
2012-12-16 01:21:47 AM
1 votes:

mekki: TotallyHeadless: Young men have no avenues to become heros anymore. Unless you are popular, athletic, or incredibly lucky, there is not much young men can aspire to.

So if you can't become a hero, what can you do?

Become a villain.

That's shallow, short sighted and impulsive thinking. But then look at the people who shoot up other people. They are shallow, short sighted and impulsive thinking.


This is what needs to be addressed. Find ways of projecting positive solutions to perceived problems and these impulsive people may not think that the only solution is to shoot their way out.
2012-12-16 01:20:03 AM
1 votes:

Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.


I bet you as you write this full of yourself to have the "rights" of lawful Americans taken away for the children of course, you have also posted for the right of millions to kill their little babies as after all it's their "right".

You know what people like you are called???
2012-12-16 01:10:30 AM
1 votes:
All I know is that it's my God given right as an American to teach my emotionally disturbed, autistic son how to shoot, reload and shoot again, and to surround him with various types and makes of guns, all the while fetishizing these same guns.

/America, fark yeah!
2012-12-16 01:10:18 AM
1 votes:

KimNorth: X-boxershorts: KimNorth: "Obama Ready for 'Meaningful Action' on Gun Control" Really because yeasterday in China a crazed man went into a school and slashed over 20 children with a knife...seems our Governments God control on everything has lead this Country into this problem!

How many of those children died?

you mad straw dude?

Really?? I bet it takes a brick on the head for you to get a point, you mad cow person....( *

Sliced, diced, whatever crazy will find a way.


Not dead is not dead, dickhead
2012-12-16 01:04:39 AM
1 votes:
I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.
2012-12-16 12:55:36 AM
1 votes:

X-boxershorts: KimNorth: "Obama Ready for 'Meaningful Action' on Gun Control" Really because yeasterday in China a crazed man went into a school and slashed over 20 children with a knife...seems our Governments God control on everything has lead this Country into this problem!

How many of those children died?

you mad straw dude?


Howabout the 2008 Osaka kitchen knife school killings? Does eight dead children suit your fancy better than 22 wounded?

Wiki
2012-12-16 12:54:47 AM
1 votes:

Guntram Shatterhand:
I agree with this. While having easy access to guns does not help, but the problem here is one of psychology
America has a pisspoor idea on psychological help, especially since a lot of our value comes from work that, thanks to the economy, is now easily replaced. We're a nation of people who work hard and play little and see our bodies as something to exhaust either through poor diet or a real lack of medical care. In a weird way, the way we set up our culture is that we are the ultimate disposable commodity to be used, abused, and buried after we finally use up our use as workers. This clashes with our mentality as 'individuals' and 'pioneers' who are supposed to be self-reliant 100% of the time regardless of the consequences, yet supposed to be constantly ambitious enough to live up to a nuclear family mentality regardless of what we really want.
So, in a nutshell, we're self-destructive physically and alienated emotionally/mentally. Is it a farking wonder why some of us snap like this? The sad truth isn't that the American Way of Life (Working yourself to death and living a pre-packaged existence) isn't dying, its that it isn't dying fast enough. We only get one shot at this world, and being a human machine is no way to go about it. Most of us seek solace in addictions. And some ...


I must "this" this.

It's not guns, it's US. All of us, not just those few rare ones who actually kill.
2012-12-16 12:41:45 AM
1 votes:
If we want security, the options are:
- get rid of all weapons that have no purpose but murder so the gun nuts can't exercise their fantasies OR
- a complete and absolute loss of privacy and freedoms

If those are the choices then fark gun nuts.

Guns would not scare me so much if not for the fact that every single person I have ever met who wants an assault rifle is EXACTLY the kind of person who I think would go on a killing spree.
2012-12-16 12:40:58 AM
1 votes:

whatshisname: Agent Nick Fury: whatshisname: Amos Quito: Rights are easy to surrender. Getting them back can be a tad more difficult.

What a lame and entirely predictable response. The "right" to stick a gun down your pants and go to the mall is not a right at all. It's a weird privilege that seems to be in vogue in states where the IQ rarely creeps above room temperature.

When you say it's 'vogue in states where the IQ rarely creeps above room temperature' you sound rather racist.

Please explain how you jumped to that conclusion, because it in itself sounds very racist.


President Obama was asked a question by ABC in February of 2011 about education reform and the reporter noted an article by Scientific America showing that Mississippi, Louisiana, and Arkansas high school seniors showed the lowest IQs of any states in the union.

He replied that there was a lot of factors that contributed to that figure including financial and parental issues amongst African American families that were not necessarily their fault and, that anyone who tried to prove otherwise, were taking advantage of racial prejudice.

Congratulations.
2012-12-16 12:40:22 AM
1 votes:

Sirveaux: kombi: ok a knife. cant find the link to the story

You mean this one?

The one where 22 people were injured and not killed?


Because it's A-OK to slash kids with a knife. No permanent physical or mental damage could possibly be inflicted by such an act.

Your argument holds as much water as a pitcher made of chicken wire.
2012-12-16 12:37:41 AM
1 votes:
Yes thank you. I was mistaken but I stand by my post.

Think of the children.
2012-12-16 12:31:18 AM
1 votes:

rappy: Arming citizens is the dumbest idea anyone ever had. People are too f*cking dumb to handle that kind of power and responsibility.


I agree. As soon as I get power, first thing to go is people's weapons. Then, I'mma start takin' their stuff. Jewelry, money, kids, it don't matter. What the king wants, the king shall have.
2012-12-16 12:25:56 AM
1 votes:

0Icky0: Quick! To the Huckabee phone! We need more Jesus in Oklahoma!


Huckabee's Jesus is like a vampire: he must be invited in first. Once he's in, he's all powerful. Or something.
2012-12-16 12:23:58 AM
1 votes:
"Obama Ready for 'Meaningful Action' on Gun Control" Really because yeasterday in China a crazed man went into a school and slashed over 20 children with a knife...seems our Governments God control on everything has lead this Country into this problem!
2012-12-16 12:17:55 AM
1 votes:

whatshisname: Amos Quito: Rights are easy to surrender. Getting them back can be a tad more difficult.

What a lame and entirely predictable response. The "right" to stick a gun down your pants and go to the mall is not a right at all. It's a weird privilege that seems to be in vogue in states where the IQ rarely creeps above room temperature.


When you say it's 'vogue in states where the IQ rarely creeps above room temperature' you sound rather racist.
2012-12-16 12:13:16 AM
1 votes:

Agent Nick Fury: whatshisname: Agent Nick Fury: How do you make sure all these mental health victims take their 'medications'?

You don't. What you do is make sure you don;t glorify gun violence and make it easy for people to obtain said weapons. Then you might become a typical western nation where you measure deaths by handguns in the dozens rather than the tens of thousands.

When you say glorify gun violence are you talking about Quentin Tarantino movies, Call of Duty video games, New York Knick games, or the second amendment?


All of the above.
2012-12-16 12:12:31 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Rights are easy to surrender. Getting them back can be a tad more difficult.


What a lame and entirely predictable response. The "right" to stick a gun down your pants and go to the mall is not a right at all. It's a weird privilege that seems to be in vogue in states where the IQ rarely creeps above room temperature.
2012-12-16 12:06:52 AM
1 votes:

Agent Nick Fury: How do you make sure all these mental health victims take their 'medications'?


You don't. What you do is make sure you don;t glorify gun violence and make it easy for people to obtain said weapons. Then you might become a typical western nation where you measure deaths by handguns in the dozens rather than the tens of thousands.
2012-12-16 12:06:38 AM
1 votes:

TotallyHeadless: Young men have no avenues to become heros anymore. Unless you are popular, athletic, or incredibly lucky, there is not much young men can aspire to.

So if you can't become a hero, what can you do?

Become a villain.


That's shallow, short sighted and impulsive thinking. But then look at the people who shoot up other people. They are shallow, short sighted and impulsive thinking.
2012-12-16 12:06:06 AM
1 votes:
Quick! To the Huckabee phone! We need more Jesus in Oklahoma!
2012-12-15 11:58:47 PM
1 votes:

graeylin: fusillade762: Just curious: can someone link me to a story where a shooter (or potential shooter) was taken down by an armed civilian? Cops don't count.

a quick look at google.. i make no promises.


Thanks. I was actually looking for an honest answer and not trolling. I figured someone would have already compiled a list to back up the "If they'd been armed this wouldn't have happened" retorts. 

And I should have expected the hairsplitting on the cop/civilian thing, even though I think it was pretty clear what I meant.
2012-12-15 11:58:47 PM
1 votes:

rappy: It's so obvious what needs to be done. Everyone hand over their guns and we destroy them. We hunt down the black market guns and destroy those.


Like we do illegal drugs.........yeah, that will work
2012-12-15 11:50:14 PM
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Universal healthcare, including mental healthcare.
2012-12-15 11:50:10 PM
1 votes:

fusillade762: Just curious: can someone link me to a story where a shooter (or potential shooter) was taken down by an armed civilian? Cops don't count.


static.guim.co.uk

What about Skittles? I think they are potentially dangerous.
2012-12-15 11:45:45 PM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: It's an authoritarian's dream come true, is what it is.


Good God.

Would you rather be living in a cave and looking over your shoulder for the next club to come along and whack you? People are stupid. A civilized society requires rules and regulations.
2012-12-15 11:45:24 PM
1 votes:
Young men have no avenues to become heros anymore. Unless you are popular, athletic, or incredibly lucky, there is not much young men can aspire to.

So if you can't become a hero, what can you do?

Become a villain.
2012-12-15 11:38:26 PM
1 votes:
The one thing that surprises me if that I don't here more out of the gun rights activists and organizations getting out in front of these issues. Is the reason for this is that guns are big business in the US, and there is just too much money being made by manufacturers and sellers to even develop more proactive policies towards gun ownership?
2012-12-15 11:37:00 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: fta: "researching pipe bombs"

now we need pipe control.


Pipes are only needed by licensed plumbers and the water department.
2012-12-15 10:10:50 PM
1 votes:

doglover: That's a sane question. Killing a lot of children is not a sane idea. So while yo have a valid question, your thinking is mistaken. You're projecting sanity on looney tunes. It will not help you understand.


I don't think anyone can understand, which is the problem. Which is also why there is so much interest and talking about it - people want to understand... people want to try and make sense of how and why these things happen. Partly because they are so incredibly incomprehensible, and partly because it would help people to deal . I guess there aren't really any answers, though...
2012-12-15 10:03:03 PM
1 votes:

serpent_sky: What do you care, if you're dead and not there to see it?


That's a sane question. Killing a lot of children is not a sane idea. So while yo have a valid question, your thinking is mistaken. You're projecting sanity on looney tunes. It will not help you understand.

An example of a better kind of question for these situations is "How many kids does a shooter have to kill to save the world from the devil?" This is an insane question. The answer will probably not even be numeric, or grammatically correct, but it's more likely to be the basis of a killing spree than a sane idea. This is because sane people don't go on killing sprees.
2012-12-15 09:58:21 PM
1 votes:

serpent_sky: I've never understood that. What do you care, if you're dead and not there to see it? Where is the payoff if you don't get to see the end results? Maybe I'm just not a criminally insane psychopath, so I am glad I can't understand it, but it's incredibly confusing to me.


Simple Answer: Some people just want to see the world burn. They don't care if they're there to see the results of it
Complex Answer with much Psychology behind the short reply: Spree killers are out to punish the people they see as having wronged them. They do not typically stop until this is accomplished, they run out of ammo, or they are neutralized by another individual.
2012-12-15 09:21:39 PM
1 votes:
When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?
2012-12-15 08:50:28 PM
1 votes:
Chavez was ...using school computers to research a .22-caliber rifle mounted on a machine gun platform.

A real criminal genius we're dealing with here.
 
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