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(Newser)   The morning of one school shooting, another may have been averted: Police arrested a teenager in northern Oklahoma yesterday for allegedly planning a Columbine-style attack on his high school   (newser.com) divider line 265
    More: Scary, Oklahoma, school shootings, Tulsa World, Sammie Chavez, Oklahoma yesterday, .22 Long Rifle, 2nd amendment, high schools  
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8596 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Dec 2012 at 11:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-16 01:19:27 AM  
I don't want to live on this planet anymore. Asperger kids are PURE EVIL.

I'm moving my family to Nova Scotia away from these immunized freaks of nature.
 
2012-12-16 01:20:00 AM  

kombi: WhippingBoy: All I know is that it's my God given right as an American to teach my emotionally disturbed, autistic son how to shoot, reload and shoot again, and to surround him with various types and makes of guns, all the while fetishizing these same guns.

/America, fark yeah!
Thats my point. Im a mechanic. You dont know how many times I have gotten in a car to move or repair them and there are guns crammed between the seats or ammo rolling around on the floor in the cup holders and the door panels. And then a car seat in the back. People owning a gun is a right but for god sakes lock them up and be responsible.


But if I lock them up, how can I display them to all and sundry?

The best thing is that the mini-mall where I buy my ammunition also has a pharmacy where I get my son's anti-psychotic prescriptions filled. Talk about your one stop shopping!
 
2012-12-16 01:20:03 AM  

Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.


I bet you as you write this full of yourself to have the "rights" of lawful Americans taken away for the children of course, you have also posted for the right of millions to kill their little babies as after all it's their "right".

You know what people like you are called???
 
2012-12-16 01:21:47 AM  

mekki: TotallyHeadless: Young men have no avenues to become heros anymore. Unless you are popular, athletic, or incredibly lucky, there is not much young men can aspire to.

So if you can't become a hero, what can you do?

Become a villain.

That's shallow, short sighted and impulsive thinking. But then look at the people who shoot up other people. They are shallow, short sighted and impulsive thinking.


This is what needs to be addressed. Find ways of projecting positive solutions to perceived problems and these impulsive people may not think that the only solution is to shoot their way out.
 
2012-12-16 01:23:14 AM  
Getting rid of guns won't fix anything. You need to get rid of the attitudes towards guns that so many people in your country have.

And good luck with that: you can't fix stupid.
 
2012-12-16 01:23:44 AM  

croesius: Amos Quito: And what do those who mean to "govern" ultimately intend to do? If not in this generation, in the next?

They mean to become America's Royalty. When only the wealthy have any meaningful sway in government, the delineation becomes more and more drastic. They shall govern what the commoners can and can not do, while abiding by a different set of rules and regulations, with the ability to bend them to their will.

The question in my mind is, when comes the breaking point? What level of extremism will it take for people to finally stop tolerating the subjugation?



Once the populace has been neutered by being disarmed, what the fark to they care?

Biatch all you want, we'll just ignore you, and if you make too much fuss, we'll disappear your ass, and send in the dogs and the killer bees to entertain your neighbors.

All legal and legitimate in the here and now.

No charges - let alone "proof" necessary.

That "right to remain silent" seems increasingly prudent under progressive Authoritarianism, doesn't it?
 
2012-12-16 01:24:21 AM  

12349876: Gulper Eel: There are if we can find out the causes for why somebody grows up lacking empathy.

Because their amygdalae don't work. Duh. What to do about that is the hard part.


I think the problem is more in the insula and mediolateral prefrontal cortex, as far as I recall.
 
2012-12-16 01:24:51 AM  
Link

zvoidx: Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Perhaps, on some level, they're seeking a rush/chemical change in the brain that is achieved, or at least they think will be achieved, by going through with a shooting.


I bet they fantasize, going through how they think it will go and how people react, for days on end. Hour after hour of living it before they go through with it. This way they have lived it so much that killing oneself is logical, they've already had the pleasure many times over. If they are not fully delusional* they may have several grudges [with real people] that they also re-live repeatedly.They think of what would be the best revenge for the grudge and go over it many times, getting their jollies finally getting even etc.

* I am talking delusional as thought processes that are not logical nor make sense even in the affected's mind.

That is my guesses about what this type of person goes through before they commit the crimes.

Calling them "crazy" and forgetting about it just makes it worse.

They are just as human as you and I . The question is how did they start with their disordered thinking? What caused it? Then, most important, medically, psychologically do something to prevent or mollify such anti-social [to the point of planning killings] feelings and thoughts. Someone needs to do that. It may not be you [who just call it "crazy" and walk away] but this is what psychologists are for. Here is a great post on why stigmatizing mental illness just brings more shooters to the fore. http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymiller/2012/12/14/when-you-tie-shoot ings-to-mental-illness/ "But I'm asking you-begging you, really, to not decide that Lanza had a mental illness. I'm asking you not to make "being a good person" the standard for mentally healthy.
Do not try to rationalize this away with mental illness. Stop talking about how it could have been schizophrenia, stop saying he had to have mental health issues. You do not know.
You do not know his state of mind. When you decide to armchair quarterback him, to stamp him with an "obvious" diagnosis, do you know what you are saying?"  Here is a terrible thing. The only thing that could possibly cause someone to do such a terrible, tragic thing is to have This Disorder. Because only people with This Disorder could be so dangerous/awful/scary.
 
2012-12-16 01:32:28 AM  

X-boxershorts: You honestly want your kids kindergarten school armed?


Well yes, seeing as these mass shooting only seem to happen at locations where the shooter knows he will not meet armed resistance, I think placing armed security personal in schools is a completely logical solution.
 
2012-12-16 01:34:39 AM  

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Spanking our damn spoiled rotten kids, though it will take a generation or two to work.
 
2012-12-16 01:35:04 AM  

KimNorth: Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.

I bet you as you write this full of yourself to have the "rights" of lawful Americans taken away for the children of course, you have also posted for the right of millions to kill their little babies as after all it's their "right".

You know what people like you are called???



"Progressive"?
 
2012-12-16 01:41:26 AM  

Amos Quito: KimNorth: Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.

I bet you as you write this full of yourself to have the "rights" of lawful Americans taken away for the children of course, you have also posted for the right of millions to kill their little babies as after all it's their "right".

You know what people like you are called???


"Progressive"?


Progressively Hypocritical, yes that it.
 
2012-12-16 01:41:34 AM  

urban.derelict: rappy: If you own a gun you probably deserve to be there.

what? I deserve to be in prison because I got tired of being f*cking mugged and bought myself a hand gun to protect myself and my home?


Well, alternatively you could have figured out what it was that was going on in your life that you were being mugged so often, and done it less.

I've done a lot of crazy dangerous shiat in my life, but I've never been mugged or even been worried about it. I've also never owned a gun.
 
2012-12-16 01:44:08 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: serpent_sky: Gulper Eel: Turn off the TV...or at least the sensationalized coverage as provided by the major networks. The thing that spree shooters want is notoriety in death that they couldn't achieve in life.

I've never understood that. What do you care, if you're dead and not there to see it? Where is the payoff if you don't get to see the end results? Maybe I'm just not a criminally insane psychopath, so I am glad I can't understand it, but it's incredibly confusing to me.

Some people want to leave a legacy.
This is no different than a rich guy having his name put on a building that he donated as part of his will.


It is different. It doesn't happen nearly so much in other English speaking democracies. It's not the ownership of guns that does it. But there are people everywhere who want to see the world burn.
 
2012-12-16 01:45:05 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Well, alternatively you could have figured out what it was that was going on in your life that you were being mugged so often, and done it less.


I'd punch you right in the jaw if you said that to me in person. In the very next line you admit to never having been mugged, right aftr you tell me DONT GET MUGGED
 
2012-12-16 01:46:00 AM  
I was walking home from f*cking grade school, ftr. I was maybe 12 years old.
 
2012-12-16 01:47:14 AM  

Okie_Gunslinger: fusillade762: Just curious: can someone link me to a story where a shooter (or potential shooter) was taken down by an armed civilian? Cops don't count.

Here ya go, no hair splitting, he's an honest to god civilian with a concealed carry license who likely saved a lot of peoples lives by showing the shooter he wasn't the only person armed at the Clackamas Mall Link


Huh. Interesting.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them,"

Charlotte?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-16 01:48:53 AM  

Agent Nick Fury: Like we do illegal drugs.........yeah, that will work


illegal drugs f*cking rock, they don't turn you into a fat combative farking asshole the way alcohol does -- tinyurl.com/1mn it's a war on minorities to replace outlawed slave labor with prison labor, STUPID!
 
2012-12-16 01:55:31 AM  

KimNorth: Amos Quito: KimNorth: Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.

I bet you as you write this full of yourself to have the "rights" of lawful Americans taken away for the children of course, you have also posted for the right of millions to kill their little babies as after all it's their "right".

You know what people like you are called???


"Progressive"?

Progressively Hypocritical, yes that it.



:-)
 
2012-12-16 01:57:37 AM  

kombi: I think its kind of simple. As a gun owner and collector my guns are secure. They are not loaded Ammo is not stored with them. They are locked in a safe in a locked closet. Not put in a nightstand drawer loaded. Cocked and locked. We have a 2nd amendment right to own guns. That does not mean everyone should have them.
If mom would have had her guns stored properly. May not have happened. She might still be alive. There is something that all thees shooters have in common. There crazy. Maybe if mommy and daddy gave a crap and the schools where not afraid to label kids. They might get help. Stereotypes exists for a reason. They are based in truth. Goth kids are usually screwed up. Jocks are ass holes. Cheerleaders ass holes...Goes on and on.


This! I have guns. Not many, but I have a 20g pump shotgun. It's great for killing the occasional rattler that finds it's way onto our property. We also have a Mossberg 715T. A .22 semi-auto that LOOKS just like a M16. Funny because I guarantee that the anti gun nuts would say it's a "assault rifle", even though it is nothing more than a semi-auto .22 repackaged to look like a m16. It is a great little gun that we use for target shooting. Very cheap to shoot, fairly quiet and all around fun. And for Christmas this year my wife is getting a .22 pistol, a Walther p22 in pink. She wants a pistol so she can target shoot with us as she doesn't really like the rifles.

We are not gun nuts, but we as a family like to target shoot. The kids have bb guns and have been taught gun safety from day one. The biggest problem I have with this tragic story is that while the mother purchases these guns legally, they were not secured. As with kombi, our three guns are secured in a gun safe. In addition each has a gun cable lock through the chamber, making it impossible to fire the weapon. The keys for the locks are kept hidden and the ammo is stored in a locked separate location. There are responsible and irresponsible people. Most of own cars. Most of us are responsible with automobiles, however there are some among us that will go our and get drunk, get behind the wheel and kill a family. Should we ban everyone from owning cars because there are those among us who can't be responsible or are just mentally unstable?

What happened at this elementary school is tragic and heart breaking. But for some of you to go on this, "all gun owners are crazy nuts and killings wouldn't happen if no one owned guns"is just plain stupid. I agree that there are those in our society that have no business near a gun. There has to be a system in place to keep then from being able to purchase and own a gun. But we also have to have responsible gun owners, owners who make damn sure that their guns are secure. But denying me and others the right to own firearms because there are some idiots in the world isn't the answer.
 
2012-12-16 01:59:29 AM  

mc_madness: I don't want to live on this planet anymore. Asperger kids are PURE EVIL.

I'm moving my family to Nova Scotia away from these immunized freaks of nature.


You are one of those "vaccines cause autism" crowd? All of the support for that theory is pseudoscience and fraud. There is no big government conspiracy to hide the truly rare vaccine reactions/side-effects. The US needs as little conspiracy, cargo-cult science, maverick, anti-establishment "heroes" as possible so please go. However, where ever you go autistic people are there, we are about 1% of the population and have been here way before the idea of vaccines entered our minds. Here are a few facts about autism in society: "Autistic Americans and individuals with other disabilities are no more likely to commit violent crime than non-disabled people. In fact, people with disabilities of all kinds, including autism, are vastly more likely to be the victims of violent crime than the perpetrators. Should the shooter in today's shooting prove to in fact be diagnosed on the autism spectrum or with another disability, the millions of Americans with disabilities should be no more implicated in his actions than the non-disabled population is responsible for those of non-disabled shooters." http://autisticadvocacy.org/2012/12/asan-statement-on-media-reports-re garding-newton-ct-shooting/


Lack of empathy is a myth an error in observation of autistic people. We actually feel empathy so much more strongly that we often go into a state of panic or shock. This is misinterpreted as not responding to others thus =no-empathy That is how we look from the ***outside*** talk to an autistic person who has no difficulty in communication and ask them if they can feel the emotions that other people feel--I recommend this woman Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg she is on Facebook and has a few web pages on the topic of autism and empathy. 

Please give us a second try with an autistic person who is educated and a good communicator. We are not "pure evil".
 
2012-12-16 02:04:20 AM  
Here is a great post on why stigmatizing mental illness just brings more shooters to the fore. http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymiller/2012/12/14/when-you-tie-shoot ings-to-mental-illness/ "But I'm asking you-begging you, really, to not decide that Lanza had a mental illness. I'm asking you not to make "being a good person" the standard for mentally healthy.
Do not try to rationalize this away with mental illness. Stop talking about how it could have been schizophrenia, stop saying he had to have mental health issues. You do not know.
You do not know his state of mind. When you decide to armchair quarterback him, to stamp him with an "obvious" diagnosis, do you know what you are saying?" Here is a terrible thing. The only thing that could possibly cause someone to do such a terrible, tragic thing is to have This Disorder. Because only people with This Disorder could be so dangerous/awful/scary.


I disagree. Many of the recent mass shooters where examination was possible have been diagnosed with mental disorders. Dylan Klebold was a manic depressive. Eric Harris was a psychopath. Loughner and Holmes are schizophrenic. Seung-Hui Cho showed signs of schizophrenia. Scott Evans Dekraai had post-traumatic stress disorder. Robert Hawkins had a long history of psychiatric issues and had been hospitilized for them twice. That's just a few minutes' worth of digging.
 
2012-12-16 02:05:38 AM  

fusillade762: Huh. Interesting.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them,"

Charlotte?



Yeah, the kid seems pretty shaken up in the video, but he did everything right and didn't get trigger happy. His decision to hold his fire worked out in the end, these mass shooters seem to kill themselves at the first hint of resistance, perhaps they are afraid of being wounded and taken into custody.
 
2012-12-16 02:06:47 AM  
That's not to say mental illness should be stigmatized, but rather that we need to do a better job of providing help to those who need it. Nobody should be afraid of getting better or helping others to get better.
 
2012-12-16 02:06:49 AM  

Amos Quito: I'm sure that you're perfectly comfortable in surrendering all ability to resist to this guy


I find it interesting that your angle here is entirely focused on whether someone is going to threaten your "rights" when a mass murder incident is either attempted or carried out. Your priorities as a human being (and those reacting like you) are on display here and its very very ugly. If that is your primary concern then you should probably provide some reason anyone rational and humane would listen to your opinion on this at all.
 
2012-12-16 02:08:30 AM  

mc_madness: Asperger kids are PURE EVIL.


Oh good. It looks like we've got a real turdfest tonight here.
 
2012-12-16 02:10:46 AM  
How else is your average kid going to inspire his country to modify its constitution?
 
2012-12-16 02:13:54 AM  

urban.derelict: Gyrfalcon: Well, alternatively you could have figured out what it was that was going on in your life that you were being mugged so often, and done it less.

I'd punch you right in the jaw if you said that to me in person. In the very next line you admit to never having been mugged, right aftr you tell me DONT GET MUGGED


I used to ride the bus from Hollywood to downtown LA at 3 a.m. I went around Sunset and Hollywood Blvd. after dark all the time. I lived alone in L.A. and Long Beach. I never got mugged. Oh, and I'm a girl. I never got raped either, or even harassed.

If you got mugged more than once, I can only assume you weren't being careful. Feel free to try to punch me in the jaw, though.
 
2012-12-16 02:15:06 AM  

emersonbiggins: Come for the school massacre, stay for Frank Lloyd Wright's only built skyscraper:


I would love to see that in person. It looks awesome.
 
2012-12-16 02:25:29 AM  

Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.


If you are an American, I feel sorry for you. As already stated above, the founding fathers knew that in order to limit government, the people needed a way to stand up to the government. Without this check and balance, the govnment would again become too powerful and oppressive. They built resistance into the constitution. In a moment of panic and fear, to strip away one of the greatest gifts given to the American People by the founding fathers, would be tragic. Again, as pointed out above, you may like the president and not worry if he got a little grabby with power...but what if it was GW and his main man Chaney? Would you still feel okay with the president getting a little grabby on power? Once a citizenship is disarmed, only the government has the guns.
 
2012-12-16 02:35:03 AM  

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Beatings.

Kids are not allowed to fight (fists) any more. So they never learn how far is too far. And they never learn respect for their peers or for adults. How do you learn not to hurt others if you've never experienced the pain or humiliation of having your ass rightfully kicked? (I'm not talking about beating your kids, mind you.)

Plus getting your nose broken or grappling during recess is a good release of aggression. Sparring is a natural part of growing up.

What life lessons are learned by having an iPhone confiscated?
 
2012-12-16 02:36:32 AM  

Agent Nick Fury: Baloo Uriza: Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Universal healthcare, including mental healthcare.

Really?

Mental healthcare - here is a perscription for your mental health problems - WHAT? He killed twelve people? - Evidently he stopped taking his medication.

How do you make sure all these mental health victims take their 'medications'?


So don't even bother trying, is that what you're saying? What's your solution, o wise one?
 
2012-12-16 02:42:58 AM  

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?

Beatings.

Kids are not allowed to fight (fists) any more. So they never learn how far is too far. And they never learn respect for their peers or for adults. How do you learn not to hurt others if you've never experienced the pain or humiliation of having your ass rightfully kicked? (I'm not talking about beating your kids, mind you.)

Plus getting your nose broken or grappling during recess is a good release of aggression. Sparring is a natural part of growing up.

What life lessons are learned by having an iPhone confiscated?


If you think kids need to be in fights or abused by adults to learn "how far is too far," you're part of the problem. Kids are certainly, on the whole, over-coddled and over-privledged in modern American society, but smacking them around doesn't teach them anything but that violence is OK and a way to solve problems.

If you have anything to back up this ridiculous assertion, whip us out a link showing a kid with no abuse from adults or other kids who went on to be a psycho killer.

/hoping I've been trolled
 
2012-12-16 02:43:07 AM  
Right
 
2012-12-16 02:46:50 AM  
Beatings.

Kids are not allowed to fight (fists) any more. So they never learn how far is too far. And they never learn respect for their peers or for adults. How do you learn not to hurt others if you've never experienced the pain or humiliation of having your ass rightfully kicked? (I'm not talking about beating your kids, mind you.)

Plus getting your nose broken or grappling during recess is a good release of aggression. Sparring is a natural part of growing up.

What life lessons are learned by having an iPhone confiscated?


This. It's easy to tell kids that violence is never the answer- it isn't- but I think you learn that lesson a lot more easily/permanently if you occasionally experience it as a kid. One of the consequences of making mistakes is pain- physical, mental, whatever. Better to become acquainted with the concept early on, to lessen the shock of it later. At some point in their precious little lives, kids are going to hit a rock wall at which point they will realize that life sometimes isn't much fun. The more ready for that moment they are, the less likely for them to react irrationally or destructively, to themselves or others. Also, a little fear is a healthy thing. Without the numerous trappings of modern western society, the world is a hard and dangerous place that should be feared and respected, and you never know when you're going to find yourself in an uncomfortable, unstable, or outright dangerous situation.
 
2012-12-16 02:47:51 AM  

Somacandra: Amos Quito: I'm sure that you're perfectly comfortable in surrendering all ability to resist to this guy

I find it interesting that your angle here is entirely focused on whether someone is going to threaten your "rights" when a mass murder incident is either attempted or carried out. Your priorities as a human being (and those reacting like you) are on display here and its very very ugly. If that is your primary concern then you should probably provide some reason anyone rational and humane would listen to your opinion on this at all.



Are you suggesting that the interests of the "greater good" (society at large) should override that of those with a "particular interest" (those directly affected by the tragedy)?

Because if you are, I submit that you just shot yourself in the foot.

/No pun intended
 
2012-12-16 02:49:20 AM  

Somacandra: If that is your primary concern then you should probably provide some reason anyone rational and humane would listen to your opinion on this at all.



Scroll up the thread for answers.
 
2012-12-16 02:53:58 AM  

Amos Quito: the "greater good"


i184.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-16 02:54:07 AM  
It would be nice if we could go back in time and ask the founding fathers "Is this really what you had in mind?"
 
2012-12-16 03:00:33 AM  

kombi: If mom would have had her guns stored properly. May not have happened. She might still be alive


For crying out loud.....THIS^

/everyone else too.
 
2012-12-16 03:08:20 AM  

Harry_Seldon: The one thing that surprises me if that I don't here more out of the gun rights activists and organizations getting out in front of these issues. Is the reason for this is that guns are big business in the US, and there is just too much money being made by manufacturers and sellers to even develop more proactive policies towards gun ownership?


They NRA (I used to be a member until I got sick of their politics) and other (less politically motivated) shooting groups are *huge* proponents of gun safety and education. If somebody approached them about putting together classes on evading a shooter and surviving a school shooting, I bet you would have hoards of volunteers. The problem based on my small sampling of anti-gun friends is that they want an all-or-none approach-- they want legislation to eliminate the threat. And that's just not a timely or realistic solution.

Banning all guns *right now* does nothing to protect the victims of tomorrow's shootings.

If you browse through all the hype right now on how to protect the children, you will see scores of arguments on banning guns, banning assault weapons, taxing ammo, screening all gun buyers for mental issues, etc. Fine, whatever. None of that does anything to increase survivability of victims. It's all feel-good BS. Why don't we train teachers (and students) in basic gun safety, and basic strategies to escape a shooting alive?

As I said right after the VT shooting-- which I narrowly missed: We teach kids about traffic safety, strangers, drugs, alcohol, sex and STDs, driving, electricity safety, poison control, fireworks, diet and exercise, etc..... Where's the 1-2 hours of gun safety? Where's the hour of instruction on what to do (move) and what not do do (cower and not move)? Schools absolutely refuse to teach it. And I consider their hands to be bloody in this matter. It isn't even a political pro/anti gun issue when you consider that the threat is obviously real.

Taking your students to a "safe space" and reading to them is probably the dumbest thing I have read in all the articles on the shooting this week.

If teachers really give a shiat about the safety of their students, they'll get educated on what guns can and can't do. This might mean sucking it up and going to the gun range to at least experience the noise first-hand. Better yet, they can fire a few rounds and realize what it really take to hit a target. It's not as easy as a video game.

When kids don't know what to do, they are going to look to the adults in the room. And those adults better farking have a clue on what to do other than corraling everyone into a corner to wait for death.

If you haven't been to an indoor range or if you have not fired a gun, I urge you to try it, if only for the knowledge that it imparts. You lose nothing but a bit of $$$ for the ammo, rental and instruction. And I gurantee that you will learn from it. 

A post above asked about the medicine to solve these kinds of problems: Survival instinct. I think we've obviously lost it or grown too complacent.
 
2012-12-16 03:14:24 AM  

OBBN: kombi: I think its kind of simple. As a gun owner and collector my guns are secure. They are not loaded Ammo is not stored with them. They are locked in a safe in a locked closet. Not put in a nightstand drawer loaded. Cocked and locked. We have a 2nd amendment right to own guns. That does not mean everyone should have them.
If mom would have had her guns stored properly. May not have happened. She might still be alive. There is something that all thees shooters have in common. There crazy. Maybe if mommy and daddy gave a crap and the schools where not afraid to label kids. They might get help. Stereotypes exists for a reason. They are based in truth. Goth kids are usually screwed up. Jocks are ass holes. Cheerleaders ass holes...Goes on and on.

This! I have guns. Not many, but I have a 20g pump shotgun. It's great for killing the occasional rattler that finds it's way onto our property. We also have a Mossberg 715T. A .22 semi-auto that LOOKS just like a M16. Funny because I guarantee that the anti gun nuts would say it's a "assault rifle", even though it is nothing more than a semi-auto .22 repackaged to look like a m16. It is a great little gun that we use for target shooting. Very cheap to shoot, fairly quiet and all around fun. And for Christmas this year my wife is getting a .22 pistol, a Walther p22 in pink. She wants a pistol so she can target shoot with us as she doesn't really like the rifles.

We are not gun nuts, but we as a family like to target shoot. The kids have bb guns and have been taught gun safety from day one. The biggest problem I have with this tragic story is that while the mother purchases these guns legally, they were not secured. As with kombi, our three guns are secured in a gun safe. In addition each has a gun cable lock through the chamber, making it impossible to fire the weapon. The keys for the locks are kept hidden and the ammo is stored in a locked separate location. There are responsible and irresponsible people. Most of own ...


Bravo. You and I are on the same page. I have been around guns as long as I can remember. And I know back then. they are not toys. Thats part of the problem now a days. This whole guns are bad thing is crazy. people are bad. Guns are objects. Thats why I made the comment about the ar15 that was in the car. Thats a lead with some of the stories. IT WAS IN THE CAR. As far as we know so fare no one was killed with it. We have demonized guns. Not people. I degrees.

And like most. Most of my guns are considered Assault rifles. That had turned into a very wide term. Its almost like anything but a shotgun is an assault weapon.

Maybe there needs to be more training when you buy a gun.
Most gun owners take good care of there guns. All locked away. But even if it was 1 out of 100 that does not. Your going to have problems.

Oh and the best gun for home security is a shogun. Dont need ammo. that cock it.
 
2012-12-16 03:17:37 AM  

fusillade762: It would be nice if we could go back in time and ask the founding fathers "Is this really what you had in mind?"


I think when you finished explaining the situation

their heads would explode before they could answer.
 
2012-12-16 03:21:59 AM  

juvandy: Dylan Klebold was a manic depressive. Eric Harris was a psychopath. Loughner and Holmes are schizophrenic. Seung-Hui Cho showed signs of schizophrenia. Scott Evans Dekraai had post-traumatic stress disorder. Robert Hawkins had a long history of psychiatric issues and had been hospitilized for them twice. That's just a few minutes' worth of digging.


Really, doctor? You know this how? Also couldn't Loughner be a schizo and a psychopath?
 
2012-12-16 03:22:59 AM  

WhyKnot: Flaumig: I hope that each and every one of you guns rights advocates who have raised their voice in the wake of the shootings over the past few days with cries that we shouldn't "politicize" these events, and that we need now more than ever to protect our right to bear arms...I hope that you all take some time and reach out to the families of those who have died and let them know how thankful you are that their loved ones died so that you could have guns. Those 20 children and 7 adults in CT, the dead in Aurora, Tucson, Columbine, the 30,000+ gun releated deaths that occur each year in the US, that is the price of your freedom.

So raise your flags high, and grip your guns tight, because your hands have an awful lot of blood on them.

If you are an American, I feel sorry for you. As already stated above, the founding fathers knew that in order to limit government, the people needed a way to stand up to the government. Without this check and balance, the govnment would again become too powerful and oppressive. They built resistance into the constitution. In a moment of panic and fear, to strip away one of the greatest gifts given to the American People by the founding fathers, would be tragic. Again, as pointed out above, you may like the president and not worry if he got a little grabby with power...but what if it was GW and his main man Chaney? Would you still feel okay with the president getting a little grabby on power? Once a citizenship is disarmed, only the government has the guns.


I feel sorry for YOU, whyknot, and the state of paranoia you live in? You really think citizens of all those countries with strict gun control are oppressed and powerless against their government? Those poor enslaved folks of England, or Japan? If "freedom" means everyone armed to the tooth and a culture of fear - where people like many in this thread think 20 children's deaths are an acceptable tradeoff if it means you get to protect your home against an intruder who almost certainly doesn't exist - well, fark that: there needs to be limits to these freedoms. I knew a family in that school yesterday. Wait until you know someone this has happened to. It may change your opinion.
 
2012-12-16 03:27:55 AM  

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


Folks have mentioned a few vaccines like, oh, national single-payer healthcare with free psychiatric treatment, reworking the Baker Act to allow mandated treatment of dangerously mentally ill persons without an actual attempt at harm, expansion of pre-existing mandated reporter systems (for child abuse) to adulthood, restricting purchase of firearms besides bolt-action long guns and shotguns, requiring training/psych eval/etc. as a condition of purchase and shutting down private firearms transfers, restrictions on firearms ownership if a mentally ill person is in household, a vast reversal of the massive gutting of mental health programs in the US that has pretty much wrecked availability of programs even if one can afford them, societal change to generally not have Americans thinking the gun is good and the penis is evil, etc. (I'll even throw in a bonus: "Careful evaluation of reasons a kid is being pulled out of a public school in favour of homeschooling, just to see if it's not a 'red flag' that the family in question could be in need of additional services from the community".)

Unfortunately, the vaccine needed to actually be effective (and which has been successful in places like the UK and Australia and Israel, all of which tightened the hell up with their gun laws after similar mass murders (the UK and Oz) and assassinations (Israel) is going to be roughly as popular as polio vaccination in parts of the world controlled by the Taliban or Boko Haram or Al-Shabaab. (For those who aren't aware--those three lovely groups of Wahhabist religionationalist derptards are pretty much the reason polio hasn't yet been eradicated--they refuse to let kids get vaccination because OH NOES WESTERN CRUSADER MEDICINE OH NOES!!!!11one! and as a result Nigeria, the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Somalia have been major foci for not only the continued spread of wild-type polio but even the occasional spread of epidemics to OTHER countries.)
 
2012-12-16 03:29:57 AM  

juvandy: Beatings.

Kids are not allowed to fight (fists) any more. So they never learn how far is too far. And they never learn respect for their peers or for adults. How do you learn not to hurt others if you've never experienced the pain or humiliation of having your ass rightfully kicked? (I'm not talking about beating your kids, mind you.)

Plus getting your nose broken or grappling during recess is a good release of aggression. Sparring is a natural part of growing up.

What life lessons are learned by having an iPhone confiscated?

This. It's easy to tell kids that violence is never the answer- it isn't- but I think you learn that lesson a lot more easily/permanently if you occasionally experience it as a kid. One of the consequences of making mistakes is pain- physical, mental, whatever. Better to become acquainted with the concept early on, to lessen the shock of it later. At some point in their precious little lives, kids are going to hit a rock wall at which point they will realize that life sometimes isn't much fun. The more ready for that moment they are, the less likely for them to react irrationally or destructively, to themselves or others. Also, a little fear is a healthy thing. Without the numerous trappings of modern western society, the world is a hard and dangerous place that should be feared and respected, and you never know when you're going to find yourself in an uncomfortable, unstable, or outright dangerous situation.


So you're saying violence is never the answer, except when beating kids so they learn...something that they apparently can't learn without being beaten.
 
2012-12-16 03:47:18 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: kombi:

I confess I am very curious as to why and how the mother got an AR-15 equivalent.


Gun store? Home FFL dealer? Private purchase? Mail order? ( yes, you can order a gun over the Internet if you have it shipped to a FFL holders address.)

Hell, the grocery store near my house has a fully stocked gun counter, and half of the rifles are AR-15 clones. I noticed they went up 25% in price this morning as well.
 
2012-12-16 03:47:20 AM  

Coco LaFemme: When diseases are in epidemic/pandemic mode, we come with a vaccine. What's the vaccine for this shiat?


You see "Moonraker"?
 
2012-12-16 03:50:21 AM  
Homeschooling my kids is sounding more and more attractive.
 
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