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(Think Progress)   In one day, more people have signed a petition asking Obama to address gun control than Texans wanting to secede from the Union   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 42
    More: Obvious, President Obama, unions, gun regulation, petitions  
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3077 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Dec 2012 at 8:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-15 06:19:53 PM
5 votes:

kmmontandon: themindiswatching: What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that


It doesn't matter how you finish this sentence, the Republican answer is "no."


The more erudite among them will say "No, because communism"
2012-12-15 06:06:16 PM
5 votes:
So there are more stupid people in the entire U.S. than there are stupid people in the state of Texas?
2012-12-15 10:59:49 PM
3 votes:

violentsalvation: chuckufarlie: violentsalvation: chuckufarlie: violentsalvation: If they actually wanted to curb this kind of violence in America they would be asking for a doubling or tripling of mental health funding, and consider some amendments to HIPPA that allow certain diagnoses to be be reported to the NCIC. As a start. If someone wants to make a petition asking for something similar I'd sign it. There is no achievable amount of gun control that would make a bit of difference, otherwise.

yes, there is a mental health issue in the USA but more funding for mental health is not going to solve the problem, or even slow it down. The people in the last three shootings had not been diagnosed as mentally ill. Beyond that, a person that is sane and rational on Monday is fully capable of snapping on Tuesday and shooting up a school on Wednesday. How is your proposal going to help in that case?

Mental health only helps when you get the people diagnosed and medicated.

The medical officials call these shooters "rage killers". Rage is something that is rarely diagnosed and it usually comes on before it can be diagnosed.

Got any other bright ideas?

Do you have ANY ideas? Because guns aren't going away. So you might want to be open to something that could help, or you're just another part of the problem. The last three you picked to fit your argument might have been treated for mental illness if treatment was more readily available and destigmatized.

Of course guns can go away. At least the semi-automatic and automatic rifles. There is nothing that stands in the way of doing so except inertia. I think that shooting 20 kids might be enough to overcome that inertia.

lol. There are tens of millions of semi-auto firearms in the US, or more, millions of them have been resold and are legally unregistered. I own a handful myself. Good luck, you support a gun control argument that has absolutely no basis in reality.


There is a very easy way to identify men who own such weapons. All we need to do is get doctors in this country to identify the patients with small penises.
2012-12-15 09:34:43 PM
2 votes:

Pincy: Prank Call of Cthulhu: What the hell kind of paranoid delusions are you suffering that you need an AR-15, a Glock, a Sig Sauer, and, if reports are to be believed, two other guns to protect you? From what? Zombies? Zee Germans? Jack-booted stormtroopers? Satan's minions? The UN? Commies? Roving bands of negroes?

Her son?


Well that worked for shiat.
2012-12-15 06:15:21 PM
2 votes:
That's because gun control is a serious issue that sensible people want to see addressed...not the pathetic whining of a few paranoid, pussy "conservative" tebaggers.
2012-12-16 12:54:38 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Linux_Yes: i own a Glock 9mm.

Sorry about the small penis. You know you could just buy a cool car, right?



wow, you gave me the Queer Eye with that one. i wasn't even thinking about Penises, but you apparently were. sorry, but i'm straight.

either that, or you need to gallop that mule before you explode.
2012-12-16 12:33:20 PM
1 votes:

John Dewey: Here's a start from a poster to WashPost


Console and then act.

1. Ban on sale of automatics, semi-automatics and conversion kits

2. Ban on sale of high capacity magazines

3. Ban on sale of cop-killer ammunition

4. Prison for gunsmiths and others converting weapons to auto fire

5. Insurance for guns owned as for pools

6. Ban on body armor except for law enforcement

7. Closure of gun show, private sales and other loosely regulated trading venues

8. Grandfather existing weapons but to remain on premises; high capacity magazines and cop-killer ammunition to be turned into police with 90 day grace period.

9. Internet notice of persons owning grandfathered banned weapons as per child predator safety notification

10. Annual recertification of gun owners with inventory

11. All weapons to be stored under lock and key


Semiautomatic guns aren't even banned in Canada.

There are no such thing as "cop killer bullets."

Gunsmiths aren't going around "changing guns to automatic fire."

You might be retarded.
2012-12-16 10:58:33 AM
1 votes:
the richest 2% of Americans who own this Nation and its Government (Obama is trying to reverse that trend and restore us to a real democratic system) would love strict gun control. hell, they'd love it if no one owned guns except them. it would give them even more control over the other 98%.

and control is addicting...........


besides, if the other 98% decided to take their Nation/Government back by force, they wouldn't have anything to do it with. and the Owners like that idea.........................wink wink.
2012-12-16 10:37:19 AM
1 votes:

keithgabryelski: Linux_Yes: almost 50,000 Americans died in auto accidents last year (most from boozie drivers). i don't hear anyone talking about Car Control.

in your state, what is the legal alcohol blood level for drivers?

what was it 10 years ago?

what was it 20 years ago?



its 0.04% for commercial vehicle drivers. and there is no limit for drivers under 21.

but don't forget, some cars are just plain evil and will kill without warning.
2012-12-16 02:12:41 AM
1 votes:

Jarhead_h: Also, something else no one seems to be talking about - on Friday morning not one single homeschooler took part in a fatal shooting in Newtown, CT.


Except one.
2012-12-16 12:50:29 AM
1 votes:

Dimensio: urban.derelict: Dimensio: Two of my firearms are handguns; for both, their ten-round magazines are designed to fit flush with the grip and thus the magazines were designed specifically to the size and shape of the handguns (the thirteen round magazine for one handgun extends the grip to that of a full size pistol).

You have still not demonstrated a public safety benefit for restricting firearm magazines as you propose.

S/W 15+1 -- they fit in the f*cking clip, stop with your 'OMFG DONT FIRE MORE THAN 2 BUWWITS baby garbage craep shiat f*ck, go hide in a f*cking cave

I have no idea what you are attempting to state.


He's your backup.

Good luck.
2012-12-16 12:50:07 AM
1 votes:

Notabunny: BuckTurgidson: We should totally base Federal policy on online polls.

[_] Agree
[_] Disagree[X] Mehi>

2012-12-16 12:35:20 AM
1 votes:
Tonight I've learned that guns have nothing to do with gun crime.
2012-12-16 12:31:18 AM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: "Need" is not relevant. Until you can demonstrate a public safety benefit from limiting all firearm magazines to the sub-standard capacity of five rounds, the proposal is not reasonable.

Nothing is reasonable to gun nuts. There's an obvious public safety benefit by limiting the capacity of a weapon. Would you rather be facing a criminal with a 200 round drum or a 5 round magazine?

I'm dying to hear what's substandard about a 5 round capacity?


Duh. What if you're attacked by 6 non-Norweigans?
2012-12-16 12:15:02 AM
1 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: rohar: keithgabryelski: rohar: Yes, but it rised dramatically as gun control became more restrictive. The number of guns in the country was reduced and the gun based crime increased. Odd huh?

Maybe, just maybe, gun control wasn't what changed the metrics. I wonder what it could have been...

it sounds like bullshiat -- the information has been sliced in a dishonest way.

what we do know (reading the homicide rates from my wikipedia link above): if the nation has less guns that nation has less homicides.

I'm good with that as a starting point.

If a nation is Norwegian, they have terribly low homicide rates so the solution is simple. All we have to do is convert all Americans to Norwegians! It's so farking simple! Why didn't I think of this!

Now, how do you change the behavior of a single demographic? You state the metrics are cooked, you have any better metrics?

/guessing not
/talking out your ass seems to be your thing

Good news! Your dog whistle works great!


Funny thing, I'm proposing a very liberal solution. That'll come later. Right now I'm pissed as hell everyone has come to a conclusion and is putting the research in after the fact. Changing gun control, either way, will have no affect on this situation. The statistics prove as much.

That's not a dog whistle, that's reality. Ignore it at your own peril.
2012-12-15 11:52:47 PM
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: kmmontandon: themindiswatching: What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that


It doesn't matter how you finish this sentence, the Republican answer is "no."

The more erudite among them will say "No, because communism"


"Furthermore, socialism."
2012-12-15 11:39:24 PM
1 votes:

graggor: birdmanesq: graggor: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

This shouldnt be hard to figure out.

And I am not even a gun nut by any means.

Gun ownership and gun control dont have much to do with falling crime rates in this country.

Better police, access to abortion, social welfare and health and medicine have far more to do with it than anything.

Mass incarceration has also been helpful.


Well I agree incarceration has a lot to do with it quite often these numbers are inflated by certain factors. we count people on parole....this inflates the number a lot.

The number of people actually in prison is .7% of the country. Which is still a lot and many people are in jail for non violent reasons which maybe we will get to a point where we do not imprison these people as long.

Either way there are 300 million people out there to commit crime and 2 million in jail.
7 million on parole and in jail combined.

So it is what is. If we had even BETTER health care we could see this go lower.

But the US is a complicated country. Our demographics are so different from many of these monochromatic societies.


Don't get me wrong, I'm agreeing with you. And you're right, there are lots of balls in the air.
2012-12-15 11:32:10 PM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: It comes down to this: We'll do the same thing we've done after the last 20 mass killings, which is nothing. Next week or next month there'll be another mass killing and we'll do the same. Mass killings are just a way of life in America now. Accept it and move on.


Population control
2012-12-15 11:23:53 PM
1 votes:
Listen, you libs just don't understand, the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of Patriots. 6-and-7-year-old Patriots, this time, but Patriots nonetheless. You want King George III messing with you, huh? Because if we have to sacrifice 20 children every once in a while, it's a small price to pay.

/fark King George III!
2012-12-15 11:10:41 PM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: Do you have ANY ideas? Because guns aren't going away. So you might want to be open to something that could help, or you're just another part of the problem. The last three you picked to fit your argument might have been treated for mental illness if treatment was more readily available and destigmatized.

Of course guns can go away. At least the semi-automatic and automatic rifles. There is nothing that stands in the way of doing so except inertia. I think that shooting 20 kids might be enough to overcome that inertia.

lol. There are tens of millions of semi-auto firearms in the US, or more, millions of them have been resold and are legally unregistered. I own a handful myself. Good luck, you support a gun control argument that has absolutely no basis in reality.

There is a very easy way to identify men who own such weapons. All we need to do is get doctors in this country to identify the patients with small penises.




LOL again. I enjoy pistol target shooting so obviously I have a microscopic penis. Another awesome gun control argument. They should have you testify in front of Congress.
2012-12-15 10:57:30 PM
1 votes:

spmkk: And please -- don't embarrass yourself with the usual drivel about the imaginary risk of cross-fire. There is absolutely no situation where issuing a firearm to this woman and her colleagues would have resulted in more deaths, and many outcomes where it would have saved multiple lives (including her own).


Cross-fire is imaginary?

Wow, you just proved that all of physics is imaginary.
2012-12-15 10:47:36 PM
1 votes:

urban.derelict: mittromneysdog: urban.derelict: //if only ANYONE ELSE AT THE SCHOOL HAD A F*CKING GUN then MAYBE they could have been safe

Yeah, dammit. WHY DON'T KINDERGARTEN TEACHERS PACK HEAT!!!

You're goddamn right. Why didn't the principal, in his duties to protect and direct students to a wealth of knowledge, have ZERO security at the school? Schools are PERFECT TARGETS because they're "GUN-FREE" which means perps can take their time, like this gentleman did.

Nobody wonders why this happened out in the middle of nowhere in New England, nobody wonders why Holmes got away with multiple murders in a Colorado movie theatre -- NOBODY ELSE HAS F*CKING WEAPONS YOU F*CKING DIPshiatS

/unarmed = always the victim, never the hero


Rock on, bro! I do believe this KINDERGARTEN TEACHERS SHOULD PACK HEAT argument is a winning one for gun rights advocates. I think you should make it in as many public forums as possible. That's it. Shout it at the top of your lungs. Write to the editor of your newspaper. Do everything in your power to get this message out to as many people as possible.
2012-12-15 10:42:14 PM
1 votes:

bulldg4life: Therefore there is no need for gun laws.


A sensible person would discern that current gun laws are good enough.
2012-12-15 10:38:11 PM
1 votes:

urban.derelict: //if only ANYONE ELSE AT THE SCHOOL HAD A F*CKING GUN then MAYBE they could have been safe


Yeah, dammit. WHY DON'T KINDERGARTEN TEACHERS PACK HEAT!!!
2012-12-15 10:18:47 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Yeah. We are about 80 times bigger than they are, so we have more lunatics.


Just in this thread.
2012-12-15 10:13:49 PM
1 votes:

evil saltine: vygramul: 2012 StagArms AR-15: Always preferred a rifle and wanted something that was cheaper to fire than the Nagant, whose Ammo it turns out is usually surplus Russian and usually random. Last load I got was light armor-piercing, and you can't fire that in an indoor range.

Right, dead children so you can have a cool toy.


Right, poor grandmas losing their life savings to Nigerian scammers just so you can post inane shiat on the internet.
2012-12-15 10:13:41 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: There's something wrong with us, and it's not just that we have lots of guns.


American Exceptionalism?
2012-12-15 10:00:10 PM
1 votes:
Old 'n busted: "LIBS! LIBS! LIBS!"

New hotness: "Gun grabbers."
2012-12-15 09:32:06 PM
1 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: What the hell kind of paranoid delusions are you suffering that you need an AR-15, a Glock, a Sig Sauer, and, if reports are to be believed, two other guns to protect you? From what? Zombies? Zee Germans? Jack-booted stormtroopers? Satan's minions? The UN? Commies? Roving bands of negroes?


Her son?
2012-12-15 09:29:44 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Lionel Mandrake: Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: I said specifically "Do more people die from these insane attacks".

Those are the only kind that kill people?

And, are we only counting the year of the Breivik attack?

With enough qualifiers, any stupid, useless statement can be "correct"

This thread was about people's response to the recent attack.
Get a clue.
You lost.
1/10 for trying to save face.


You are a liar. A shameless, bought and paid for liar. You are a creature worthy of no compassion, you are ugly and hateful.

I promised myself after years of lurking on this forum that I would never ignore someone in order to preserve objectivity on both sides of discourse. I was wrong.
2012-12-15 09:26:51 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, time for the white trash to stop dictating the safety of everyone else by screaming like biatches about an amendment that their little brains do not undertstand.
2012-12-15 09:16:50 PM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: birdmanesq: cameroncrazy1984: Tipping point.

It would be nice to have an evidence-based conversation about this.

it's cameron.. never gonna happen. You're more likely to get hit by a meteorite while having sex in an elevator with 8 female porn stars while a midget in a clown suit takes pictures.


Does he have to be in a clown suit?

Cuz, oh man! this one time...
2012-12-15 08:50:39 PM
1 votes:
To be fair, most that signed the Texas petition were from the rest of the US that just wanted us out of the Union
2012-12-15 08:40:28 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Lionel Mandrake: tenpoundsofcheese: Do more people die from these insane attacks in the US than say in a place like Norway?

yes

tenpoundsofcheese: And if you look on a per capita basis, isn't it a lot worse in Norway than the US?

no

You sure?
85 people died in Norway in an insane attack (going after kids too)

Per capita, they have about 1/80th of the number of people.

Care to try again.


No. Your link was fine, though there are many more out there to prove my point.

From your link: Five homicides committed with a gun were reported in Norway in 2005, the latest year for which the site has data confirming firearm-related murders in the country. In comparison, the U.S., which has a population more than 50 times greater, had 10,158 gun-related murders the same year, or 2,000 times that of Norway.

Math is hard!
2012-12-15 06:55:44 PM
1 votes:
If you ban weapons, killers will just kill with their bare hands. Or develop telekinesis.

Or both!!!
2012-12-15 06:49:02 PM
1 votes:

coco ebert: Because at least half this country wants gun control. The other half is whingeing in the politics tab right now.


And the other half will get a gun regardless.

/manbearpig argument
2012-12-15 06:33:46 PM
1 votes:

kmmontandon: themindiswatching: What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that


It doesn't matter how you finish this sentence, the Republican answer is "no."


I'd have argued that was hyperbole, if I hadn't watched Turtle McTurtle veto his own bill last week, just to keep democrats from passing anything - even his own proposals.
2012-12-15 06:29:05 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Tipping point.


It would be nice to have an evidence-based conversation about this.
2012-12-15 06:27:53 PM
1 votes:

BravadoGT: kmmontandon: themindiswatching: What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that


It doesn't matter how you finish this sentence, the Republican answer is "no."

It's because Republicans already know that adding more laws won't stop the killing. Once someone decides to go kill a school full of children, they're going to find a way. If they cant' get a hold of guns, they'll bring swords or machetes or axes; they'll bring acid, or build pipe bombs and car bombs. Point is--further restricting the tool isn't going to correct the underlying condition--it's nothing more that a band-aid when the body needs an antibiotic.


You do know that the same day this happened a lunatic in China went into a school and stabbed 22 kids, right?

And you do know that no one died, right?

The "they'll just use a knife or ax or baseball bat" argument is the absolute stupidest argument in the entire discussion.
2012-12-15 06:15:49 PM
1 votes:

themindiswatching: What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that



It doesn't matter how you finish this sentence, the Republican answer is "no."
2012-12-15 06:13:11 PM
1 votes:
What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that extends mental healthcare to everyone? We could call it Medicare Part E or something. Surely people would be okay with that if it'll prevent at least one mass shooting, right?
2012-12-15 06:03:49 PM
1 votes:
Murder is already illegal and morally reprehensible. If someone has crossed that line in their mind, no other legislation is going to make much difference.
 
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