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(Think Progress)   In one day, more people have signed a petition asking Obama to address gun control than Texans wanting to secede from the Union   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 1045
    More: Obvious, President Obama, unions, gun regulation, petitions  
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3078 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Dec 2012 at 8:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-15 11:04:25 PM  
I have a bit of advice for the pro gun crowd...

Quit acting so farking crazy and like guns are some kind of fetish and be willing to have some rational conversation about how to deal with gun deaths or you better believe its going to hurt. The nation is sick of it. Period. And you guys better find some sane mainstream voices then the NRA and Ted Nugent or all of your nightmares will come true. Preaching to the choir will not work.

Oh and leave the " Well if there were more guns then this would not have happened" Argument behind its not working

//And other thing the people who were posting Gun pictures like they were pin up picts yesterday were beyond revolting.
///Waited a day before saying what was on my mind.
 
2012-12-15 11:05:15 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: I have a bit of advice for the pro gun crowd...

Quit acting so farking crazy and like guns are some kind of fetish and be willing to have some rational conversation about how to deal with gun deaths or you better believe its going to hurt. The nation is sick of it. Period. And you guys better find some sane mainstream voices then the NRA and Ted Nugent or all of your nightmares will come true. Preaching to the choir will not work.

Oh and leave the " Well if there were more guns then this would not have happened" Argument behind its not working


THIS!
 
2012-12-15 11:05:18 PM  

birdmanesq: The Principles for Effective Gun Policy


Yes, I read that. Guess what? No statistics showing a change in homicides as a function of legislation.

You want to try again?
 
2012-12-15 11:05:27 PM  

cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.



No, what will happen is what allways happens.
A few people will put up a fight, because most people talk a big game, but would wuss out.

Those few who do, well, all one has to do is look up Waco or Ruby Ridge to see who wins.
 
2012-12-15 11:05:29 PM  
Old enough to know better
"Why is it whenever someone suggests trying to control guns, Conservatives automatically assume we want to take theirs away?"

MayoSlather: "Banning the sale of all firearms both new and used that can fire more than 2 shots"
tolallorti: "My solution: ban all sales and manufacture of semiautomatic firearms to civilians"
Popcorn Johnny: "Ban all handguns except for law enforcement and military, Ban all assault weapons, Ban all magazines over a 5 round capacity"
Paleorific: " I now support a total ban of handguns and guns that most would consider to be semi-automatic, automatic assault rifles."

Yea...where'd we get THAT crazy idea?
 
2012-12-15 11:05:41 PM  

chuckufarlie: the idiot in Connecticut had not been diagnosed as having mental health issues


Mybe we should stop candy coating mental health issues by calling them "personality disorders" so we don't offend anyone.

Why are people afraid of offending some crazy autistic kid by labelling him batshiat insane yet people have no qualms about offending the people with guns by calling their personal defense weapons a scary term like assault rifle?
 
2012-12-15 11:06:17 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: I have a bit of advice for the pro gun crowd...

Quit acting so farking crazy and like guns are some kind of fetish and be willing to have some rational conversation about how to deal with gun deaths or you better believe its going to hurt. The nation is sick of it. Period. And you guys better find some sane mainstream voices then the NRA and Ted Nugent or all of your nightmares will come true. Preaching to the choir will not work.

Oh and leave the " Well if there were more guns then this would not have happened" Argument behind its not working

//And other thing the people who were posting Gun pictures like they were pin up picts yesterday were beyond revolting.
///Waited a day before saying what was on my mind.


Someone up thread says the answer is kindergarten teachers packing heat.

They actually said that. Ya rly.
 
2012-12-15 11:06:20 PM  

birdmanesq: violentsalvation: birdmanesq: Except, you know, all of the data that shows that denser concentrations of guns lead to denser concentrations of gun crimes, and that states with stricter gun laws tend to have lower rates of gun crime.

Except all that stuff.

Like Chicago?

That whole argument is another correlation / causation and it ignores everything else. And you know it.

Actually, they control for that by lagging the gun possession variable. That's as close to a valid causal argument that you are going to get.

And everybody keeps bringing up Chicago like it means something. The per capita homicide rate here is bad, but it's better than lots of places. And, you know what, the handguns that are being used on the South and West Sides were generally purchased legally by straw buyers in Northwest Indiana and the quickly resold in the City.


People keep ignoring Chicago and other cities rife with gun violence and tight on guns like their numbers are meaningless. Straw purchasing in itself is illegal, but it's pretty much uncontrollable.
 
2012-12-15 11:06:38 PM  

Mrbogey: birdmanesq: And, you know what, the handguns that are being used on the South and West Sides were generally purchased legally by straw buyers in Northwest Indiana and the quickly resold in the City.

That's a contradiction. Strawbuying is illegal. Ergo, the person who bought the weapon violated the law and should be imprisoned for it. If you have a problem with straw buyers, you'll have to ask the head of the ATF, DOJ, and Executive branch why they're not charging them with a crime.


See, this is a convenient out. The fact that a person purchased a firearm legally and then resold that firearm illegally means that it's the buyer's individual bad act, not the fact that we are unwilling to license and register firearms to individual owners--or otherwise regulate at the point of sale. All this demonstrates is the ease with which legal firearms become illegal firearms.
 
2012-12-15 11:07:09 PM  

cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.


If it's the Alex Jones types vs. everyone else, it will be a very quick war.

And Alex Jones will not like how it ends.
 
2012-12-15 11:07:18 PM  

BravadoGT: It's because Republicans already know that adding more laws won't stop the killing. Once someone decides to go kill a school full of children, they're going to find a way.


In your country, yes. But why?
 
2012-12-15 11:07:44 PM  

Mrtraveler01: "spmkk: Nowhere else to troll on a Saturday night? Cross-fire is real. The oft-lamented "risk" that it will make a situation where one guy is shooting at people and everyone else is unarmed worse is imaginary.

And you're basing this on?"



Among other things, the complete lack of evidence that it ever has made such a situation worse, despite the torrential frequency with which that talking point is trotted out. (With the exception of, ironically, a number of police shootings.)
 
2012-12-15 11:07:59 PM  

Giltric: Why are people afraid of offending some crazy autistic kid by labelling him batshiat insane yet people have no qualms about offending the people with guns by calling their personal defense weapons a scary term like assault rifle?


Jesus Christ...

The poor babies. We don't want to hurt their feeling now do we?

/rolls eyes
 
2012-12-15 11:08:03 PM  

keithgabryelski: rohar: Uh, there's nothing there that cites a correlation between gun control laws and violent crime. Hell, there's no mention of gun control laws.

You understand the idea of "data" right?

Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).
Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
Across states, more guns = more homicide

from this:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and - death/index.html

the source is cited.


fark, you don't understand the myriad of free variables that come with different demographics do you? I'm pretty sure I don't have the energy, this late at night, to explain it.

How 'bout you just continue on with your conclusion. You obviously chose that first and decided to rationalize it later. There's little I can do to help you think rationally. You seem to resist it at every turn.
 
2012-12-15 11:08:26 PM  

chuckufarlie: Mrbogey: chuckufarlie: Of course guns can go away. At least the semi-automatic and automatic rifles. T

That's about as likely as you being able to fire a semi-auto as fast as a machine gun.

nice job of misquoting, you moron.


Everyone!!!

Your attention. I'd like to publicly apologize to Chuck for not properly quoting him in context. That was wrong of me and I'd like to fix that by doing such right now.

chuckufarlie: Really? I can fire a semi-automatic at about the same rate as I can fire a fully automatic rifle. Anybody can spray and pray with a semi-auto.


Since I care about my reputation, I'd hate to tarnish it by giving the impression of dishonesty. I hope this response is satisfactory.
 
2012-12-15 11:08:37 PM  

Publikwerks: cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.


No, what will happen is what allways happens.
A few people will put up a fight, because most people talk a big game, but would wuss out.

Those few who do, well, all one has to do is look up Waco or Ruby Ridge to see who wins.


This isnt Clinton era hatred. This is Obama era hatred.

This is the worst kind of partisan hatred in the history of our nation since Lincoln.

People are very, VERY angry right now. Why they are angry does not matter; the fact that they are angry does. Further angering extremely angry people is always going to lead to disastrous results.
 
2012-12-15 11:08:45 PM  

rohar: birdmanesq: The Principles for Effective Gun Policy

Yes, I read that. Guess what? No statistics showing a change in homicides as a function of legislation.

You want to try again?


Except that is exactly the question that their primary analysis is built on.

Try again.
 
2012-12-15 11:10:01 PM  

rohar: fark, you don't understand the myriad of free variables that come with different demographics do you? I'm pretty sure I don't have the energy, this late at night, to explain it.

How 'bout you just continue on with your conclusion. You obviously chose that first and decided to rationalize it later. There's little I can do to help you think rationally. You seem to resist it at every turn.


you seem obtuse. please tell me and everyone how we are not reaching the goal posts.
 
2012-12-15 11:10:03 PM  
Mrbogey

LOL. Favorites list for you.
 
2012-12-15 11:10:18 PM  

spmkk: Mrtraveler01: "spmkk: Nowhere else to troll on a Saturday night? Cross-fire is real. The oft-lamented "risk" that it will make a situation where one guy is shooting at people and everyone else is unarmed worse is imaginary.

And you're basing this on?"


Among other things, the complete lack of evidence that it ever has made such a situation worse, despite the torrential frequency with which that talking point is trotted out. (With the exception of, ironically, a number of police shootings.)


Is that like the complete lack of evidence that someone with a CCW managed to stop a mass shooting?
 
2012-12-15 11:10:41 PM  

chuckufarlie: Do you have ANY ideas? Because guns aren't going away. So you might want to be open to something that could help, or you're just another part of the problem. The last three you picked to fit your argument might have been treated for mental illness if treatment was more readily available and destigmatized.

Of course guns can go away. At least the semi-automatic and automatic rifles. There is nothing that stands in the way of doing so except inertia. I think that shooting 20 kids might be enough to overcome that inertia.

lol. There are tens of millions of semi-auto firearms in the US, or more, millions of them have been resold and are legally unregistered. I own a handful myself. Good luck, you support a gun control argument that has absolutely no basis in reality.

There is a very easy way to identify men who own such weapons. All we need to do is get doctors in this country to identify the patients with small penises.




LOL again. I enjoy pistol target shooting so obviously I have a microscopic penis. Another awesome gun control argument. They should have you testify in front of Congress.
 
2012-12-15 11:11:12 PM  

chuckufarlie: The kid that shot up the college in Virginia had actually been diagnosed as mentally ill and he was still able to buy a gun.


Wait, you know this but were unwilling to believe me in another thread when I claimed that he was mentally ill before he went on the killing spree? Just caught you as an absolute liar.
 
2012-12-15 11:11:19 PM  

cman: People are very, VERY angry right now. Why they are angry does not matter; the fact that they are angry does. Further angering extremely angry people is always going to lead to disastrous results


So Waco II Electric Boogaloo?
 
2012-12-15 11:11:41 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Farker Soze: bulldg4life: If you're going to cry and whine, then you should do it with proper info. Blindly biatching about gun grabbing is pretty stupid when it isn't being suggested.

biatching, not me. I have my guns (hell I'm armed to the teeth!) and no one is suggesting taking them, of course. It's just that no one else can get one anymore. So, fark 'em, I got mine, amirite?

I'm pretty sure you can still get guns.


Don't be obtuse. You know I'm talking about the hypothetical future they supposedly want. "We're not planning on taking guns, we're just restricting future owners" is just a dog whistle anyway. I'm sure you guys know that grandfather clauses are stupid, unfair, and rarely work. Just look at the toothless 1994 AWB. To have any real effect they're going to have to grab guns. There are too many out there right now.
 
2012-12-15 11:11:43 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.

If it's the Alex Jones types vs. everyone else, it will be a very quick war.

And Alex Jones will not like how it ends.


Alex Jones is far more popular than the general population assumes. When it comes to independent talk radio, he is the king.
 
2012-12-15 11:11:48 PM  

ignatius_crumbcake: Mandatory 10 week military boot camp for anyone who wants a gun. The Amendment was supposed to apply to citizen militias, after all. A militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, should be well trained.


That would mean mandatory 10 week military boot camp for everyone whether you want a gun or not....cause we are all part of the militia.

/i'm ok with this
 
2012-12-15 11:12:20 PM  

MBA Whore: Is the thread where we let government use a tragedy to further limit the rights of responsible law-abiding citizens?

/ terrorists win
// including domestic terrorists


No, this is the thread where law abiding citizens who are sick of watching innocents die tell you enough is enough. Yes, guns are tools, and it's the user that makes them dangerous. However, so are lots of things we regulate. Nuclear material, drugs, porn, hell, there are more restrictions for internet gambling than for owning a handgun.
 
2012-12-15 11:12:45 PM  
zenobia

Firstly, if we are going to talk about assault weapons, put a definition on it.

- Automatic only? Semi-automatic?
- Magazine capacity?
- Based on size of the rifle, or the rounds it uses?
- Features on the weapon?

It's easy to talk about assault weapons as one group, and it's a lot harder to define that group. This was part of the weakness of the AWB. So have at it.
 
2012-12-15 11:13:35 PM  

violentsalvation: birdmanesq: violentsalvation: birdmanesq: Except, you know, all of the data that shows that denser concentrations of guns lead to denser concentrations of gun crimes, and that states with stricter gun laws tend to have lower rates of gun crime.

Except all that stuff.

Like Chicago?

That whole argument is another correlation / causation and it ignores everything else. And you know it.

Actually, they control for that by lagging the gun possession variable. That's as close to a valid causal argument that you are going to get.

And everybody keeps bringing up Chicago like it means something. The per capita homicide rate here is bad, but it's better than lots of places. And, you know what, the handguns that are being used on the South and West Sides were generally purchased legally by straw buyers in Northwest Indiana and the quickly resold in the City.

People keep ignoring Chicago and other cities rife with gun violence and tight on guns like their numbers are meaningless. Straw purchasing in itself is illegal, but it's pretty much uncontrollable.


I mean, I certainly think that violence in Chicago is meaningful (otherwise my work would be nonsense), but there are lots of things that make Chicago an outlier when you're talking about strict gun laws and firearm homicides. I mean, all Chicago shows is that strict laws don't guarantee lower homicide rates.
 
2012-12-15 11:13:49 PM  

keithgabryelski: rohar: fark, you don't understand the myriad of free variables that come with different demographics do you? I'm pretty sure I don't have the energy, this late at night, to explain it.

How 'bout you just continue on with your conclusion. You obviously chose that first and decided to rationalize it later. There's little I can do to help you think rationally. You seem to resist it at every turn.

you seem obtuse. please tell me and everyone how we are not reaching the goal posts.


We as a nation, with a specific demographic (different as a whole from Chicago, LA or MT) are dealing with a gun related crime issue. The suggested response seems to be federal gun ownership limitation.

Historically, limitations on gun ownership in any given demographic in this country have not reduced violent crime. No statistic shows otherwise. When we look at any demographic that passed gun control measures, gun related crime increases.

Given all of the repeated failures in other demographics, why on earth would it work in the demographic that is all of us?
 
2012-12-15 11:14:43 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Doc Lee: tenpoundsofcheese:
But they are still number one number of people killed in a violent rampage.
They also are number one for number of kids killed in a violent rampage.

Yes, so, address the question: How do we get these radical conservatives world-wide to self-commit themselves to mental institutions?

By stop giving a pass to the radical liberals.


That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
 
2012-12-15 11:15:14 PM  

chuckufarlie: Giltric: chuckufarlie: banning guns in DC when you can just go to Virginia and buy one almost anywhere, anytime.

As long as you are 21 and pass the background check....right?...hell even law enforcemnet has to jump through hoops when purchasing a non duty weapon.

something something facts something something sounds better.

Not in Virginia, The kid that shot up the college in Virginia had actually been diagnosed as mentally ill and he was still able to buy a gun.


So all we need is to link a persons past medical diagnosises's's' with the firearm background check system.

Okay.....someone get the lights we should be done here...problem solved.
 
2012-12-15 11:15:17 PM  

JadedRaverLA: BravadoGT: kmmontandon: themindiswatching: What if Obama submits a bill to Congress next month that


It doesn't matter how you finish this sentence, the Republican answer is "no."

It's because Republicans already know that adding more laws won't stop the killing. Once someone decides to go kill a school full of children, they're going to find a way. If they cant' get a hold of guns, they'll bring swords or machetes or axes; they'll bring acid, or build pipe bombs and car bombs. Point is--further restricting the tool isn't going to correct the underlying condition--it's nothing more that a band-aid when the body needs an antibiotic.

By this same logic, since the knowledge on how to build nuclear weapons is out there, we should just give some to Iran, right? I mean it's against the law to randomly nuke other countries, so there's absolutely no point in restricting access to the tools.


Iran couldn't pass the background check for a revolver, much less a nuke.
 
2012-12-15 11:15:23 PM  

Doc Lee: tenpoundsofcheese: Doc Lee: tenpoundsofcheese:
But they are still number one number of people killed in a violent rampage.
They also are number one for number of kids killed in a violent rampage.

Yes, so, address the question: How do we get these radical conservatives world-wide to self-commit themselves to mental institutions?

By stop giving a pass to the radical liberals.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


Did you see the handle?
 
2012-12-15 11:16:08 PM  

cman: Lionel Mandrake: cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.

If it's the Alex Jones types vs. everyone else, it will be a very quick war.

And Alex Jones will not like how it ends.

Alex Jones is far more popular than the general population assumes. When it comes to independent talk radio, he is the king.


Please. He and his crackpot followers would be pulverized. Quickly.
 
2012-12-15 11:16:30 PM  
chuckufarlie: "The kid that shot up the college in Virginia had actually been diagnosed as mentally ill and he was still able to buy a gun."

chuckufarlie: "I asked you for citations to prove that they were diagnosed prior to the shootings. ... Prove me wrong or admit that you are the liar. Actually, you have proven that you are the liar. You never back up your statements with sources."

LOL WUT
 
2012-12-15 11:16:32 PM  

wademh: who did not have the sense to properly secure her guns.


Do you have a citation in regards to that?

For all we know he killed her then went rummaging around for a key to a safe.
 
2012-12-15 11:16:42 PM  
Honestly this stuff will always happen.

Overall crime is going down in the US.

Due to other factors than gun ownership or gun control.

both sides are idiots.
 
2012-12-15 11:16:49 PM  

rohar: keithgabryelski: rohar: fark, you don't understand the myriad of free variables that come with different demographics do you? I'm pretty sure I don't have the energy, this late at night, to explain it.

How 'bout you just continue on with your conclusion. You obviously chose that first and decided to rationalize it later. There's little I can do to help you think rationally. You seem to resist it at every turn.

you seem obtuse. please tell me and everyone how we are not reaching the goal posts.

We as a nation, with a specific demographic (different as a whole from Chicago, LA or MT) are dealing with a gun related crime issue. The suggested response seems to be federal gun ownership limitation.

Historically, limitations on gun ownership in any given demographic in this country have not reduced violent crime. No statistic shows otherwise. When we look at any demographic that passed gun control measures, gun related crime increases.

Given all of the repeated failures in other demographics, why on earth would it work in the demographic that is all of us?


the overview i cited says differently, although it doesn't say "laws" it says "more guns more homicide"

so, we are just arguing over how to limit access to guns, right?
 
2012-12-15 11:17:05 PM  

rohar: keithgabryelski: rohar: fark, you don't understand the myriad of free variables that come with different demographics do you? I'm pretty sure I don't have the energy, this late at night, to explain it.

How 'bout you just continue on with your conclusion. You obviously chose that first and decided to rationalize it later. There's little I can do to help you think rationally. You seem to resist it at every turn.

you seem obtuse. please tell me and everyone how we are not reaching the goal posts.

We as a nation, with a specific demographic (different as a whole from Chicago, LA or MT) are dealing with a gun related crime issue. The suggested response seems to be federal gun ownership limitation.

Historically, limitations on gun ownership in any given demographic in this country have not reduced violent crime. No statistic shows otherwise. When we look at any demographic that passed gun control measures, gun related crime increases.

Given all of the repeated failures in other demographics, why on earth would it work in the demographic that is all of us?


Probably because we almost never hear about gun crimes in countries with very strict gun control laws.
 
2012-12-15 11:17:29 PM  
We should totally base Federal policy on online polls.
 
2012-12-15 11:17:31 PM  

cman: This isnt Clinton era hatred. This is Obama era hatred.

This is the worst kind of partisan hatred in the history of our nation since Lincoln.

People are very, VERY angry right now. Why they are angry does not matter; the fact that they are angry does. Further angering extremely angry people is always going to lead to disastrous results.


No it wont. You overestimate how many pissed off people there are.
 
2012-12-15 11:17:37 PM  
Just a reminder, everyone.

We are still very emotional about this shiat. Insulting each other makes it much worse.

If thou hast nothing good to speak about thy fellow man, then hold thy tongue.
 
2012-12-15 11:17:48 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: cman: Lionel Mandrake: cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.

If it's the Alex Jones types vs. everyone else, it will be a very quick war.

And Alex Jones will not like how it ends.

Alex Jones is far more popular than the general population assumes. When it comes to independent talk radio, he is the king.

Please. He and his crackpot followers would be pulverized. Quickly.


Wait, Alex Jones has a radio show? I just thought he had some crazy blog.

Even the UFO guy on Coast to Coast AM gets more airtime.
 
2012-12-15 11:17:54 PM  

badhatharry: Gun purchases require registration and background checks.


Not true. Most cities/states do not have gun registration. Background checks only occur when purchasing from a licensed FFL (federal firearms license). If you buy your gun from the guy down the street there's no background check.

/pro-gun, just gotta get facts straight
 
2012-12-15 11:18:01 PM  
How do we get these radical conservatives world-wide to self-commit themselves to mental institutions?

By stop giving a pass to the radical liberals.


Dammit cheese. I thing he broke my brain. Ow.
 
2012-12-15 11:18:34 PM  

keithgabryelski: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and - death/index.html


Debunked

Link

birdmanesq: See, this is a convenient out. The fact that a person purchased a firearm legally and then resold that firearm illegally means that it's the buyer's individual bad act, not the fact that we are unwilling to license and register firearms to individual owners--or otherwise regulate at the point of sale. All this demonstrates is the ease with which legal firearms become illegal firearms.


The gov't has a perfectly legal way of tracing a gun from manufacturer to FFL. The FFL can report who they sold the gun to. That person can then answer as to why they've sold several guns to a criminal within a short time frame of buying it.

These are the current tools available to the gov't.

Some in the gov't want more. They want every sale to go through an FFL and for all sales to be tracked and reported to the gov't regardless of crime involvement. This is the line that is being held because people who know the current gun laws know the request is bullshiat.
 
2012-12-15 11:19:00 PM  

Farker Soze: I thing he broke my brain.


Yep, he broke my brain.
 
2012-12-15 11:19:17 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: cman: Lionel Mandrake: cman: Those folks who went out and bought all those guns when Obama was elected and reelected didnt just buy them to put above the fireplace.

If he tries to tackle this there will be blowback from extremists. Alex Jones types will see any tinee-tiny bit of gun control as an attempt to take away all guns and we have civil war.

This is not something that can be negotiated. We are farked.

Welcome to America in 2013, the beginning of the second civil war.

If it's the Alex Jones types vs. everyone else, it will be a very quick war.

And Alex Jones will not like how it ends.

Alex Jones is far more popular than the general population assumes. When it comes to independent talk radio, he is the king.

Please. He and his crackpot followers would be pulverized. Quickly.


I hope that I am wrong and that you are right.

I do worry about extremists. Maybe I am being overly paranoid about it. I dunno.
 
2012-12-15 11:19:56 PM  

Giltric: wademh: who did not have the sense to properly secure her guns.

Do you have a citation in regards to that?

For all we know he killed her then went rummaging around for a key to a safe.


What did he shoot her with?
 
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