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(CBS 42 Birmingham) NewsFlash Gunman enters Alabama hospital, opens fire. Injures three before being killed by police. Begun, the copycat shootings have   (cbs42.com) divider line 835
    More: NewsFlash, St. Vincent, Alabama, UAB, shootings, guns  
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18594 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Dec 2012 at 2:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-15 03:52:29 PM  
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-15 03:52:30 PM  
How to solve the vulnerable nature of our schools while providing additional employment options to our veterans.

Armed Security Guards.

Helicopter parents may cry foul, but it kills two birds with one stone. The veterans who opt in and don't mind the risk get a steady job that fits their skillset. The schools gain someone on hand who has the ability to react while under fire, which is more than what can be said for a majority of CCW holders.
 
2012-12-15 03:52:32 PM  
Oh great.

Now we'll have to ban schools AND hospitals.
 
2012-12-15 03:52:54 PM  

John Dewey: NotoriousFire: Second amendment already justifies a gun owners "need" to own. You need to justify your point - the US Bill of Rights justifies against your point.

The Bill of Rights justified owning a musket.


The right of the People to keep and bear ARMS, not "muskets," ya dolt. I enjoy mine, and I'm keeping them, and you can't do a thing about it...except flame on, which is delightful!
 
2012-12-15 03:53:10 PM  
Right now, there's hundreds of families in America who see a gun not as a self defense necessity or a hunting luxury, but rather as what killed their classmate in cold blood.

I hope we don't need to make that be a majority that's seen a massacre first-hand before we do something.
 
2012-12-15 03:53:19 PM  

iq_in_binary: The Sandy Hook shooting was with illegally obtained weapons.


Taking them from your mothers house isn't the same thing as breaking in and stealing them.
 
2012-12-15 03:53:26 PM  

zippolight2002: Haven't been reading up on the school shooting, so forgive me, but have they determined how he got his gun yet? Was it his to begin with? Did he buy it legally? Because if either of those answers are "no", this "What if" gun control debate is moot.


The firearms were reportedly the property of his mother, which would indicate that she did not secure them despite knowing a resident of her home to be mentally unstable.

I have read, but cannot yet confirm, that the shooter did attempt to purchase a rifle on his own but that he was denied.
 
2012-12-15 03:53:46 PM  

Gosling: cameroncrazy1984: How about two mass shootings in two days using legally-obtained firearms?

How about an intended third?

An arrest affidavit says Chavez tried to convince other students to help him lure students into the auditorium, chain the doors shut and start shooting. The Tulsa World reports that authorities say Chavez threatened to kill students who didn't help.


You just can't find good help nowadays.

/prefer window seat
 
2012-12-15 03:53:47 PM  

NotoriousFire: John Dewey:
Justification: Guns were built with one purpose: To kill. Current gun technology allows the killing to happen at sickening rates.

So let's set a scenario - you're at your home, with your wife and two children (made up - it's a scenario). You hear glass break downstairs, you look down your stairwell - there are two intruders, one with a gun and one with a knife. You have a firearm in your nightstand. Do you use this weapon to protect your family? Or do you not, because "guns are bad!" Which do you choose?


Your non sequitur is non sequitur-y.
 
2012-12-15 03:53:54 PM  

iq_in_binary: You haven't met your average enlisted man or woman. A lot of officers would die before people figured out the whole confiscation thing wasn't going to happen


Haha, yeah right. These guys are trained to follow orders. You don't think they'd fall in line after the first mutineer was shot? Do you have no knowledge of history?
 
2012-12-15 03:54:06 PM  

Friction8r: Generation_D: Happy 221st Birthday Second Amendment. God Bless well-regulated militias everywhere.

You know, the bill of rights is just a piece of paper. If enough of us think gun ownership is too stupid to handle, with too many negative consequences, for too many people, we could amend it. Been done before.

Sure you could amend that "piece of paper."But you STILL won't get our guns! You haven't seen bloodshed until you try to take guns away from the populace. House to house searches to connfiscate weapons? Good luck with that. And if you think all guns are registered, so you have a handy list of what homes to barge into, you're nuts.


I was surprised at how easily Americans handed over their guns post-Katrina. Hopefully we'll never have to find out how such a scenario would play out.
 
2012-12-15 03:54:07 PM  

NotoriousFire: John Dewey:
Justification: Guns were built with one purpose: To kill. Current gun technology allows the killing to happen at sickening rates.

So let's set a scenario - you're at your home, with your wife and two children (made up - it's a scenario). You hear glass break downstairs, you look down your stairwell - there are two intruders, one with a gun and one with a knife. You have a firearm in your nightstand. Do you use this weapon to protect your family? Or do you not, because "guns are bad!" Which do you choose?


I have played that scenario out time and again over the last 24 hours.

I would rather roll the dice that I will never face that than roll the dice of sending my kid to school everyday knowing some whackjob has easy access to guns.

And my wife has been the victim of a home invasion and lives with that fear. She and I are on the same page. So my word on it may not have as much weight as hers. At least not in my mind.
 
2012-12-15 03:54:16 PM  

TheEdibleSnuggie: globalwarmingpraiser: This year has been crazy. WTF is wrong with people.

I'm convinced a lot of this insanity has something to do with the supposed end of the world being on the 21st of this month; people are going stupid.


Really..... Just this year? School shooting's have been taking place in this country since the 1700's. Not to mention all the other types of gun violence. Don't by naive, this is America, we were built by the use of firearms.
 
2012-12-15 03:54:30 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Dimensio: If you believe that further restriction is warranted -- and that such restriction will survive judicial scrutiny -- then you are free to argue a "need" for them

How about two mass shootings in two days using legally-obtained firearms?

That was the need argued when the UK banned most firearms, and they now enjoy one of the lowest gun-death rates in the world.


What were their "gun death" and total homicide rates prior to the enactment of the regulation to which you refer?
 
2012-12-15 03:54:43 PM  

mr lawson: [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 542x539]


And when one of the security guards who is armed to the teeth has a really bad day?
 
2012-12-15 03:54:50 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: Helicopter parents may cry foul, but it kills two birds with one stone. The veterans who opt in and don't mind the risk get a steady job that fits their skillset. The schools gain someone on hand who has the ability to react while under fire, which is more than what can be said for a majority of CCW holders.


hell...i say give federal government funds for that idea.
 
2012-12-15 03:55:03 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: basemetal: What if the civilian only took out the gunman, would they still be a dumbass civilian?

Again, that's never happened before so...



Actually it has. A woman with a concealed weapon shot the man shooting up the New Life Church.
 
2012-12-15 03:55:09 PM  

mr lawson: [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 542x539]


Thats funny. I would vote "All weapons prohibited on the premises." And define that as the whole country.

I'd much rather outlaw guns entirely and then sort out who the criminals are, than leave guns lying around and wait for the next round of victims to happen.
 
2012-12-15 03:55:09 PM  

John Dewey: Dimensio: John Dewey: Why am I the one having to justify not owning killing devices? Shouldn't the gun owners have to justify their need to own? Talk about backwards land.

In free societies, rights of action and of ownership are allowed by default, and restriction requires justification. Perhaps you prefer residence in an authoritarian society.

Justification: Guns were built with one purpose: To kill. Current gun technology allows the killing to happen at sickening rates.

Fin.


Funny, the gun technology today, as in what civilians have been able to purchase, hasn't "changed" since pretty much 1919. The gun technology related to the guns used in the Sandy Hook shooting hasn't changed since, well, 1911. Sure it's been repackaged a little bit and is a little bit lighter now, but it's pretty much the same weapon technology.

Now, the stuff the Army is playing with now with those 25MM grenades is new, but that's not going to be available to American civilians any time soon, if ever.

The whole discussion would probably be a lot more effective and constructive if it was being held by people who actually knew what they were talking about instead of pulling stuff out of their ass.
 
2012-12-15 03:55:27 PM  

John Dewey: Dimensio: John Dewey: Why am I the one having to justify not owning killing devices? Shouldn't the gun owners have to justify their need to own? Talk about backwards land.

In free societies, rights of action and of ownership are allowed by default, and restriction requires justification. Perhaps you prefer residence in an authoritarian society.

Justification: Guns were built with one purpose: To kill. Current gun technology allows the killing to happen at sickening rates.

Fin.


Those are assertions, not justifications.
 
2012-12-15 03:55:35 PM  

Dimensio: Your irrational belief is not a valid basis for public policy


Actually, in the UK it is. The Firearms act of 1997 was enacted after the Dunblane school massacre. And it works.
 
2012-12-15 03:56:07 PM  

Dimensio: ot yet confirm, that the shooter did attempt to purchase a rifle on his own but that he was denied.


Soooo the current gun-control laws worked? It was the parent that f'ed up? Why are we having this debate at all?
 
2012-12-15 03:56:22 PM  

John Dewey: mr lawson: [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 542x539]

And when one of the security guards who is armed to the teeth has a really bad day?


absolutely no difference in outcome.
 
2012-12-15 03:56:27 PM  

John Dewey: And when one of the security guards who is armed to the teeth has a really bad day?


No, no - "staff" is always reliable, see? More guns is clearly the way to reduce the opportunity to use guns. Are you slow or something?
 
2012-12-15 03:56:33 PM  

tshauk: TheEdibleSnuggie: globalwarmingpraiser: This year has been crazy. WTF is wrong with people.

I'm convinced a lot of this insanity has something to do with the supposed end of the world being on the 21st of this month; people are going stupid.

Really..... Just this year? School shooting's have been taking place in this country since the 1700's. Not to mention all the other types of gun violence. Don't by naive, this is America, we were built by the use of firearms.


And now we're crumbling from within because of it. Hopefully we don't become Somalia or Afghanistan.
 
2012-12-15 03:56:40 PM  

iq_in_binary: Funny, the gun technology today, as in what civilians have been able to purchase, hasn't "changed" since pretty much 1919. The gun technology related to the guns used in the Sandy Hook shooting hasn't changed since, well, 1911. Sure it's been repackaged a little bit and is a little bit lighter now, but it's pretty much the same weapon technology.


And the 2nd amendment was written in 19....19.....what year exactly was that?
 
2012-12-15 03:57:05 PM  

Friction8r: John Dewey: NotoriousFire: Second amendment already justifies a gun owners "need" to own. You need to justify your point - the US Bill of Rights justifies against your point.

The Bill of Rights justified owning a musket.

The right of the People to keep and bear ARMS, not "muskets," ya dolt. I enjoy mine, and I'm keeping them, and you can't do a thing about it...except flame on, which is delightful!


Keep reading. Don't stop after the first sentence this time.

I hope you fight back when we force you to register your weapons and pay property taxes on them. Then we can legally put you down and remove you from the equation.
 
2012-12-15 03:57:24 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: How to solve the vulnerable nature of our schools while providing additional employment options to our veterans.

Armed Security Guards.

Helicopter parents may cry foul, but it kills two birds with one stone. The veterans who opt in and don't mind the risk get a steady job that fits their skillset. The schools gain someone on hand who has the ability to react while under fire, which is more than what can be said for a majority of CCW holders.


Maybe I have my terms mixed up, but I think helicopter parents are the group that would get behind such a plan the most. They'd probably appreciate a Bradley IFV parked at the school entrance as well.
 
2012-12-15 03:57:55 PM  
John Dewey: I would rather roll the dice that I will never face that than roll the dice of sending my kid to school everyday knowing some whackjob has easy access to guns.

You're far more likely to die in a car accident. If you're basing decisions off of rolling the dice then you should severely limit the amount of time your kid's in a car.
 
2012-12-15 03:58:18 PM  

zippolight2002: Haven't been reading up on the school shooting, so forgive me, but have they determined how he got his gun yet? Was it his to begin with? Did he buy it legally? Because if either of those answers are "no", this "What if" gun control debate is moot.


His mother's arms cache. She was an avid shooter, apparently.

We don't know yet if she was an NRA member, but it did say she frequented shooting ranges.

So apparently the model gun-owning citizen.
 
2012-12-15 03:58:23 PM  

John Dewey: Why am I the one having to justify not owning killing devices? Shouldn't the gun owners have to justify their need to own? Talk about backwards land.


How about we justify you not being thrown in jail? You might rape someone. Shouldn't you justify that you won't rape someone.
 
2012-12-15 03:58:41 PM  
zippolight2002: Soooo the current gun-control laws worked? It was the parent that f'ed up? Why are we having this debate at all?

because guns bad, that's why. There is no other reason.
 
2012-12-15 03:58:45 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: DoomPaul: Thankfully security was on hand this time, but you get the point.

What would the average number of people killed in mass shootings be if nobody had guns?


Fantasy.

You think 300 million guns are going to evaporate?
 
2012-12-15 03:58:52 PM  

zippolight2002: Dimensio: ot yet confirm, that the shooter did attempt to purchase a rifle on his own but that he was denied.

Soooo the current gun-control laws worked? It was the parent that f'ed up? Why are we having this debate at all?


Facts are of no relevance to most individuals. The AR-15 type rifle reported to have been found was located in the car and was never used, yet gun control advocates are using its presence as justification to renew an "assault weapons ban".
 
2012-12-15 03:58:55 PM  

mr lawson: [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 542x539]


Neither. Though the second will likely result in 5-year-olds being caught in the crossfire of a shootout. Which I'm sure is just the best solution for everyone.
 
2012-12-15 03:59:21 PM  
Oh for christ sake. You will never ban guns here in America. It will never happen. After anything like this you get the knee jerk reactions of "Let's BAN GUNS!" or "Their coming to TAKE OUR GUNS!". Might as well talk about banning alcohol everytime some drunk driver crashes a kills a family of four. That is just as stupid and will never happen either.
 
2012-12-15 03:59:22 PM  
Responsible gun owners are the reason you can embarrass yourself on Fark assigning blame to an object rather than the user of that object.
 
2012-12-15 03:59:30 PM  
Generation_D: So apparently the model gun-owning citizen.

aside from letting her crazy-ass son use them
 
2012-12-15 03:59:59 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: How to solve the vulnerable nature of our schools while providing additional employment options to our veterans.

Armed Security Guards.

Helicopter parents may cry foul, but it kills two birds with one stone. The veterans who opt in and don't mind the risk get a steady job that fits their skillset. The schools gain someone on hand who has the ability to react while under fire, which is more than what can be said for a majority of CCW holders.


Brilliant plan. Except for the mental illness prevalent in our veterans (PTS, anyone?) which would make the kids less safe instead of more safe
 
2012-12-15 04:00:01 PM  

Medic Zero: You think 300 million guns are going to evaporate?


If laws were put in place making them illegal, most would. The others would be weeded out over time.
 
2012-12-15 04:00:05 PM  

Dimensio: cameroncrazy1984: Dimensio: If you believe that further restriction is warranted -- and that such restriction will survive judicial scrutiny -- then you are free to argue a "need" for them

How about two mass shootings in two days using legally-obtained firearms?

That was the need argued when the UK banned most firearms, and they now enjoy one of the lowest gun-death rates in the world.

What were their "gun death" and total homicide rates prior to the enactment of the regulation to which you refer?


According to the British Journal of Criminology, as of 2011, gun homicides have declined for 7 straight years, so my guess is, higher than .22 per 100k.
 
2012-12-15 04:00:11 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: John Dewey: Why am I the one having to justify not owning killing devices? Shouldn't the gun owners have to justify their need to own? Talk about backwards land.

How about we justify you not being thrown in jail? You might rape someone. Shouldn't you justify that you won't rape someone.


Is jailing those that disagree with your viewpoint how a gun nut solves problems now?

So much for that pesky First Amendment.

Guess I was right, gun nuts only care about the 2nd Amendment, they give f--k all about the others.
 
2012-12-15 04:00:40 PM  

John Dewey: NotoriousFire: Second amendment already justifies a gun owners "need" to own. You need to justify your point - the US Bill of Rights justifies against your point.

The Bill of Rights justified owning a musket.


i798.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-15 04:01:08 PM  

John Dewey:
I would rather roll the dice that I will never face that than roll the dice of sending my kid to school everyday knowing some whackjob has easy access to guns.


Understood that's your choice. What about those individuals out there who have had to use such firearms in defense of their family and/or home? Those individuals who, if otherwise did not use their firearm, would have had a family member killed or raped?

I understand you have your belief on firearms, and I respect that. But there are others, who have been in different situations, who have theirs. To say gun-control, in its entirety, will completely eliminate innocent death from such firearms is ridiculous. Now if people were required to do their due diligence, and secure their firearm(s) when not in use, I'd support that. But complete outlaw is neither American nor beneficial.
 
2012-12-15 04:01:09 PM  

Tellingthem: Oh for christ sake. You will never ban guns here in America. It will never happen. After anything like this you get the knee jerk reactions of "Let's BAN GUNS!" or "Their coming to TAKE OUR GUNS!". Might as well talk about banning alcohol everytime some drunk driver crashes a kills a family of four. That is just as stupid and will never happen either.


Never say never. 100 years ago you could probably have said they'd never outlaw inter-racial marriage.
 
2012-12-15 04:01:25 PM  

Medic Zero: Popcorn Johnny: DoomPaul: Thankfully security was on hand this time, but you get the point.

What would the average number of people killed in mass shootings be if nobody had guns?

Fantasy.

You think 300 million guns are going to evaporate?


Scientifically, part of them would, if you melted them down.
 
2012-12-15 04:01:26 PM  
We don't need gun control. We need Psychos control.
Criminals do not shoot up schools...Psychos do.
 
2012-12-15 04:01:50 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: How about we justify you not being thrown in jail? You might rape someone. Shouldn't you justify that you won't rape someone.


You're right. My body and penis could be used to rape...let's see...how many women in a 30-60 second span?
 
2012-12-15 04:02:28 PM  

NotoriousFire: Understood that's your choice. What about those individuals out there who have had to use such firearms in defense of their family and/or home? Those individuals who, if otherwise did not use their firearm, would have had a family member killed or raped


Those individuals are a minute portion of the population as a whole. Especially when compared to those who are murdered by legally-obtained firearms.
 
2012-12-15 04:02:38 PM  

Generation_D: tshauk: TheEdibleSnuggie: globalwarmingpraiser: This year has been crazy. WTF is wrong with people.

I'm convinced a lot of this insanity has something to do with the supposed end of the world being on the 21st of this month; people are going stupid.

Really..... Just this year? School shooting's have been taking place in this country since the 1700's. Not to mention all the other types of gun violence. Don't by naive, this is America, we were built by the use of firearms.

And now we're crumbling from within because of it. Hopefully we don't become Somalia or Afghanistan.


I'll agree we are crumbling, but not because of weapons in our homes, no no...that's just to simple; it's because Americans have lost any back bone and are no controlled by what the media and politicians tell them to think, and the masses drink it all up. No will power to adjust a corrupt Government. We used to be a nation FOR the people, BY the people, when was the last time you felt your Government was on YOUR side?
 
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