mayIFark: How much farking more blood you want?
Popcorn Johnny: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.No, Ryan Lanza is dead and his brother is being held for questioning.
SacriliciousBeerSwiller: sprawl15: Lots of people are blaming guns, but why is nobody blaming violent video games or violent movies?Because you'd have to throw the box pretty f*cking hard to kill someone with a DVD.
calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.
amquelbettamin: How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?
Carn: Noticeably F.A.T.: Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.A hammer is a tool. A gun is a weapon.
Tax Boy: Dusk-You-n-Me: Video: Obama's statement. LinkTranscript: Here
Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.
Haliburton Cummings: [big, bold, edgy awing]
Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Kit Fister: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: We shouldn't have to give up anything. Right now we are parking ambulances at the bottom of the cliff and preparing to clean up the carnage. Some people think we should post someone at the top of the cliff to stop people from driving off of it. What we really need to do is provide a society where nobody ever feels the need to drive their car off of the cliff in the first place. I am not sure that is possible, but I would rather work towards that than take everyone's car keys away.This this this this this this.'Twas adapted from the book Influencer: The Power to Change Anything. Highly reusable metaphor.
serial_crusher: Popcorn Johnny: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: msnbc said he was in some kind of altercation with four individuals at the school on ThursdayCNN just asked the sheriff that and he said he had no information on it.I heard the CIA actually brainwashed him into doing it. One of the teachers Knew Something and this was all a cover.
styckx: So I woke up this morning to read this.A member of Lanza's family told investigators that he had a form of autismFor farks sakes.. Really.. We're going here now? One day later and we're already at name dropping autism?
davidphogan: cegorach: SOMETHING ELSE CATEGORISED AS AN ASSAULT WEAPONWrong again.He used two handguns by the way. But don't let facts get in the way of your freakout.
SubBass49: Given that people who knew this shooter KNEW that he was off his rocker, I'd like to see "mandated reporter laws" extended to all adults age 18 and up. Know a psycho? Report them for treatment ASAP or your ass is getting locked up when they do some crazy shiat.
pedrop357: Richard Flaccid: iq_in_binary: Fire is the most effective tool in the toolbox of spree killers.Sadly, you can by by 500 round boxes of matches at just about any hardware store.not only that, but chains, padlocks, high capacity fuel containers, fuel itself, can even carry loaded fuel containers in motor vehicles and near schools. no background check, no age limits, no limits on stockpiling.
Moonfisher: Whether you are left or right, freeperville is off the charts. Gay marriage causes this. Also not teaching your kids to cook. My brain hurts now.
Mikey1969: cegorach: Mikey1969: cegorach: Mikey1969: cegorach: Mikey1969: sirbissel: Mikey1969: chuckufarlie: This tragedy would not have happened if the guy was armed with a hunting knife. Guns make it much easier to kill lots of people in a short time.Explain that to the dead and wounded from all of the knife attacks in schools in China, one that actually happened today.http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/14/china-knife-attack-scho o l.html "China stabbing spree hurts 22 schoolchildren"Somehow I think everyone would rather that the 20 kids were only hurt.The point is the same one other people are trying to make, it's not guns, it's people. This isn't the first time this has happened there, not even the second, and usually people die. The problem lies in someone who can justify killing a bunch of people that they don't know and have no connection to, no matter how they do it.And the points you are wilfully ignoring are:a) Guns make it a whole lot easier to killb) Guns make it a whole lot easier to kill a lot of peoplec) The extra effort required for non-gun methods is an effective barrier to stopping crazies in many cases (as every sane nation can attest)d) Guns make it a whole lot easier to kille) Guns make it a whole lot easier to kill a lot of peopleYour argument is pants on head retarded in the first instance and even more so when you spend five seconds stacking it up against well known facts.That you even repeat the 'guns don't kill people...' mantra simply warns people around you that you are a brainwashed simpleton.And you either can't see the forest for the trees, you're a complete retard, or you're a total asshole so intent on pushing an agenda that you wouldn't care how many died or were injured, just as long as it was one less than with a gun. I won't be judgemental, I'll let you decide which of the above applies to you.One last question for you: If knives are so inefficient, how was this guy able to knife 22 kids before he was stopp ...
iq_in_binary: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: iq_in_binary: chuckufarlie: Kazrath: thisispete: GORDON: Hey is it too soon in this thread to nail these dead children to crosses in the name of politicizing gun control?If there isn't to be a conversation about gun control now, when is it going to happen? What is the window on that? Because this kind of thing happens all too frequently.Why? Gun control is not the issue. Gun control is a bandaid. Way not to talk about the real issue which is mental illness, poverty and brainwashing.because a crazy guy sitting at home in his chair is just a crazy guy. A crazy guy with an arsenal is a mass murderer.See the difference?I'd rather he have guns than be forced to look at the alternatives. Quite frankly, the fact that these sickos turn to guns first is a GOOD thing. Otherwise they'd look for other alternatives, and find them. You know what the difference is between a meth lab and a TNT lab? The reagents for a TNT cook are far easier to get (boat hull cleaner and wood finish), the synthesis is safer than meth, and the process far simpler.It's an issue that needs to be solved, but their mental health is what needs to be addressed, not their access to firearms. Because frankly, I'd rather hear about some guy shooting up a place and maybe killing a few people than blowing up the damned building and killing ALOT of people.If guns and TNT labs are so interchangeable, then let's repeal the 2nd amendment. We can build a TNT lab easily and quickly if we need to fight tyranny."If Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are so interchangeable, let's scrap the whole pursuit for marriage equality. Civil unions are plenty equal enough."Try to remember we're talking about a subject in which a LOT of people are talking about turning 70 MILLION of us into criminals for no other reason than exercising a right we thought we had enumerated for us in the Bill of Rights. Every now and then apply a different filter to the argument you're making to see if you'd hold the same view. If you can't, you might want to revise your argument.
Mikey1969: evaned: Kit Fister: I'm open to the possibility, but using your analogy, if the design flaw is that the toilets flush with too much pressure, then does that preclude blaming the pilot that deliberately chose to crash the plane?I have a suspicion you'll be hard pressed to find someone saying we shouldn't blame the shooter; what gets me annoyed is comments like this, re. the knife attack in China:Mikey1969: The point is the same one other people are trying to make, it's not guns, it's people. This isn't the first time this has happened there, not even the second, and usually people die. The problem lies in someone who can justify killing a bunch of people that they don't know and have no connection to, no matter how they do it.Stuff like this seems to me like it's saying "some people are evil so there's no point in gun control because they'll still attack" while ignoring the blatantly obvious fact that guns make it way easier to kill people.Kit Fister: As these arguments that come up every time these tragedies happen show, BOTH sides have facts that, when amalgamated and studied as part of a larger picture, show that something IS wrong but it's NOT something that either side directly acknowledges or believes is important.Or that the different sides like to highlight different aspects of. For instance, is it guns? Media? Access to mental health and social stigmatization of mental problems? Culture? In reality it seems like it's probably some combination of them, but in what mix? And what should we do about it? How do you change culture? Taking an anti-gun stance for a second, maybe since we can't be sure of what the root cause is or what to do about it, maybe working on a symptom and making it harder to get guns will at least help?Kit Fister: But, instead we'll plod along, accepting that it's okay to make games that involve mass murder, rape, gore, blood, and so on because of free speech, continue to make movies that glorify violence and so on, and continue to focus on ourselves and not on properly parenting our children, and instead blame the guns and ban them, just like we blame high-fat fast food and junk food for our obesity epidemic instead of looking closely at who the fark is stuffing their face.And I actually think the obesity thing is an interesting discussion too, and in some ways parallel the gun control debate as you seem to suggest there. (And I suspect we are somewhat on different sides of that as well.) For instance, the obesity rate in the US has gone up dramatically over the last couple decades. (Link: scroll to the map at the bottom.) You can shout about how it's personal choice and why should the government get involved and stuff like that until your throat is hoarse, but I'll still think that's only half the story; it's not like our country's genetics have suddenly and abruptly went off of a cliff, something at a societal level has happened that has caused the problem. And because of that, I think focusing on individuals ("exercise more!" "eat less!") is doomed to fail, and to solve the problem it's necessary to look at what society-wide shifts have occurred -- and that it's very possible that fixing those shifts will require some sort of government intervention. Maybe not NYC "you can't offer this soda", but maybe limiting the quantity or types of products that sugar and HFCS is added to. Or maybe NYC has the right idea.Unfortunately a lot of illiterate people on Fark tonight... I'll explain this one more time.Most (I won't say 'all' because some people really are nuts) people are trying to point out not that guns don't kill people, we're trying to show that people are still getting attacked in large numbers even where guns are 100% illegal. Until people are willing to admit that the problem goes deeper than guns, the problem will still exist.Sure, you'll go to sleep tonight convinced that you made a difference, but it won't change anything. This problem needs to be looked at from more than one direction, that's all there is to it.I'm not trying to excuse anyone, I'm trying to point out that this issue is like an ogre, it's got layers. Using the 'ban all guns' argument is about the same as washing the outside of an onion, it makes it look clean and pretty, but the onion isn't really any closer to getting in that salad.
FriarReb98: So I've avoided this subject since about 1 this afternoon. Forget for one moment that I know how to read the rest of these threads, and just let me know how far off the derpwagon have we gone in here?
RealFarknMcCoy2: way south: JungleBoogie: Because DOING NOTHING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE THIS TIME."Heard this kind of talk a few years back.Everyone was passionate to do something, anything, to prevent a new tragedy.This is what we did.[dl.dropbox.com image 420x312][dl.dropbox.com image 470x290]/Action based on emotion instead of reason is not going to get the change you're looking for.ACTUALLY, we had a similar tragedy in Australia a few years back that prompted a change in gun control which is much stricter. It was implemented by the CONSERVATIVE government, with the full support of the Labor Party (another, slightly less conservative party). We now have meaningful gun control, which, while not perfect, certainly beats the hell out of what you've got in the US.
Mija: Today In china 22 elementary students were stabbed to death. Things like this will happen even if all the guns in the world were destroyed. A determined person will find a weapon. My sister once stabbed my dad with a fork.
Popcorn Johnny: Pokey.Clyde: Why do all of you gun grabbers always spout off this stupid, tired argument?It's not a stupid argument at all. The 2nd amendment was written for a very specific purpose that no longer exists today.
IRQ12: Why is it that "gun people" on the internet always come off as smug, condescending pricks? Do they somehow believe that their possession and knowledge of weapons somehow makes then more intelligent?Serious question, I see it all over the internet. Did the smug and condescending attitude exist before the weapons or is it because of the weapons.
Mrbogey: ordinarysteve: a shotgun is a firearm and can be used to protect one's family. it isn't as effective for murdering classrooms full of kids. i don't see what part of that is confusing youWhat's the AC on a "classroom full of kids"? Do they get a saving throw against projectiles? Because something tells me that a shotgun can easily kill a child.Sorry if I'm being a dick here. But we're talking about a psychopath who killed children. Defenseless children. Virtually any weapon will kill anything if it can't defend itself. It's a prima facie thing.
chuckufarlie: 2wolves: Who is standing up for the Rights of these children? Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Freedom.pursuit of happiness. That whole liberty thing covers freedom.
Zik-Zak: "...a Sig Sauer, a Glock 9 and a Bushmaster rifle were found at the scene."All legal.I'll buy the self-defense crock, but what civilian fecking needs THREE firearms!?
USP .45: jbezorg: You are talking about psychological profiling all potential gun owner applicants and keeping those profiles in a national database?You tell me how you think the anti-gun control lobby is going to react to that?A database of people that would be mentally unsafe to purchase a firearm right along side the existing database that prevents criminals, wife beaters, druggies and drunks from purchasing firearms?Seems "sensible."Seems "reasonable."Nope, the anti-gun lobby would have a shiatfit. As would the ACLU.Keep blaming the NRA though.
Mrbogey: It doesn't matter what weapon was used
Dusk-You-n-Me: The people who fight and lobby and legislate to make guns regularly available are complicit in the murder of those children.
BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: you can use a handgun for self protection. Assault weapons just don't perform that function very well.For defense while on your own property, they can be preferable to a handgun.If you cannot defend your property with a handgun, an assault rifle is not going to help. Maybe you should get some target practice so you hit what you aim at,You know pretty much nothing about guns or real life combat realities. You should probably stop talking, because there's several situations in which a rifle is preferable. For starters, the chance of a one shot kill is dramatically increased. If it's a home invasion involving numerous people, you have the option for larger magazines. If the invaders are wearing body armor, as some do, handgun rounds will not effectively neutralize them. If even trained police officers miss many of their shots in a stress situation, how much more so would an untrained civilian, rifles are naturally easier to aim.
shower_in_my_socks: Arthur Jumbles: if all the guns simply disappeared they'd find other, more creative ways to kill and I think they might even be more effectiveThen it should be very easy for you to give examples of countries with stricter gun laws than the US that still have the same level of mass murders using other weapons. We await your report.
iq_in_binary: Until then, gun owners will point and laugh at people
sprawl15: Lots of people are blaming guns, but why is nobody blaming violent video games or violent movies?
pounddawg: Has anyone heard from wholedamnshow again?
Orgasmatron138: Advanced civilizations will look back at how so many of us are amused by shooting guns and think of us as primitive.
Cpl.D: Someone take the game out of the universe's console, and rub the back of the disc vigorously with a brillo pad.Because NOBODY wants to play this game ever again. / :(// :((
Godscrack: [img835.imageshack.us image 648x484]
AugustWest: letrole: The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitmore, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.1. If suicide is no longer a sin,2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashesAh yes. If only things were they way they were 40 years ago.
dwrash: I disagree.. the only ones you will remove are the legal ones which will embolden the criminals.I could also run around with a machete and a compound bow and do just as much damage.For the record, I do not own a single firearm... but I am an archery instructor (mostly kids, recurve bows only).
Leeds: kev_dog: Carn: A hammer is a tool. A gun is a weapon.All depends upon who is using it...Hammers are but a small part of a gun.Next you'll be badmouthing barrels too?
Boudica's War Tampon: Asperger's, OCD and a controlling mother.It's a refreshing cocktail of doom.Jeebus.
hillbillypharmacist: wxboy: CBS News showed footage of Ryan Lanza in handcuffs in Hoboken. So that clears up just where he is in case there was a question.Why would they arrest him?
Magorn: 20 dead children. Jesus, 20 dead FARKING CHILDREN. What worm-eaten excuse for a brain to you have to have that makes you capable of putting a rifle to your shoulder, looking down the sights seeing CHILD's Face and STILLbeing able pull the trigger?! Holy mother of god, how could ANYONE do that no matter how sick or filled with rage?To all you worthless human beings whose first reaction to a store about a rampage killing of 20 little kids is to worry about whether someone wants to take your gun away, all I can say is FARK YOU, Fark you right in arse with a rusty chainsaw. Spew your paranoid bullshiat another day. Have the decency to mourn today instead
Imperialism: Can someone link me to a stream of some good coverage of this? Just got home and I am NOT going to CNN for this.
serial_crusher: eddievercetti: He killed kids, parents, roommate and maybe his girlfirendHow does somebody that crazy have a girlfriend, and I don't?
Ardilla: USP .45: Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.ABSOLUTELY THIS.If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?Irony?It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.
Hand Banana: Oh god, I just realized these kids most likely have presents sitting at home under their trees right now.
USP .45: Ardilla: So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.Anytime someone says "sensible" it tells me they have no farking clue about anything.Say what the sensible guidelines and restrictions are. I already suggested one.
eddievercetti: I just heard FOX has some douche blaming video games, of course FOX, go after everything but the crazy!
Noticeably F.A.T.: Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.
OnlyM3: What do they call trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?
Red_Fox: I can't believe you NRA loving motherfarkers coming in here and bashing anyone speaking out against guns....today's not the day....my ass it's not. Today is precisely the day to start to change.
cman: My previous message was asking for calm. Now this shall be my official message on what I believe could be done to prevent things like this.Outlawing or restricting guns, IMO, would be attacking a symptom of a bigger problem. It has become very apparent that we do not spend enough money at a federal level on mental health resources. I believe that increasing federal funds for mental health access would in the long run significantly reduce these kinds of attacks. No one will ever be able to stop mass murder; it has always been in our history. But we can make an impact at prevention if we can find these folk early and give them access to be more mentally stable.That is the cost of freedom right there; we pay more in taxes and we keep our weapons. Simple.
Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.ABSOLUTELY THIS.If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?
bulldg4life: GlockSig sauer223 Bushmaster
Kit Fister: on those particular points, I will fight you to my last breath. I will not give up my rights for the illusion of safety. I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.
The All-Powerful Atheismo: BraveNewCheneyWorld: The All-Powerful Atheismo: It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same,They're all preventable. That's how they're the same.That is ONE way they're the same, that doesn't mean they're exactly the same.Oh and many of those aren't preventable, so your point is even more worthless.
letrole: If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
BronyMedic:[Citation Needed] that a CCW has ever stopped a spree shooter in a School or College Campus. It's ALWAYS been people taking action to overwhelm and rush the shooter, or campus police drilling them in the skill. Or they've had their guns jam, or killed themselves.
USP .45: Well Obama just did so go for it.
shower_in_my_socks: CNN reporting that shooter's brother found dead in Hoboken.I thought his bro was in custody, or is this a different sibling? So he killed his mom, his bro is dead in another city. WTF just happened? Maybe the brother committed suicide when he got the news.
KidSock2004: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.If that's true, good LORD did the news outlets fark up
Lsherm: Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.
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