lacydog: COMALite J:All of this is just one example of the numerous shenanigans Moore pulled in that movie. And the really sad thing is that he had a golden opportunity to do the right thing instead. He himself has since said on video that he agrees that the SSRI hypothesis is the most likely explanation, that fits all of the known observations including timing and demographics.If today′s tragedy involves SSRIs or SNRIs or some such as well as it almost certainly does (I would be extremely surprised if that turns out to not be the case, though it could still be hypermania caused by a brain tumor, blow to the head, etc. as was the case with most known such incidents prior to the introduction of SSRIs), then this would bring the body count of incidents we know about that would almost certainly have been prevented had Moore done the right thing, to nearly three digits.Ignoring the rest of what you said (this just in, Michael Moore is an idiot and everyone already knew), what is this? I remember some vigilantly anti-Psychology nuts getting into a rage about SSRIs after Columbine, but the only thing officially said about it was that the shooter had some SSRI in his system and might have been influenced to go off his meds. What's this nonsense about SSRI's causing school shootings?SSRIs do, in less than 1% of the population that takes them, exacerbate the symptoms that they're trying to cure. Many other medicines do the exact same thing. That's why in the few weeks where someone is starting an SSRI treatment plan, they should be carefully monitored by a mental health professional to make sure that if they start seeing signs of this that the treatment is terminated. However, someone being an idiot and terminating treatment abruptly, or taking too many/too little... that would be dangerous. That would be dangerous pretty much no matter what kind of pill you're talking about.
JungleBoogie: dwrash: I could also run around with a machete and a compound bow and do just as much damage.No, you really couldn't.Guns are a point and click lethal device, designed to deliver high velocity projectiles accurately from a distance. You certainly could do damage with an arrow or machete. Or car for that matter. But a firearm is a device that is the peak of lethal evolution. It is the most effective, inexpensive man-portable killing device that humanity has today.That is why combat soldiers go into battle with firearms, and not bows and arrows, or machetes.
ArgusRun: Ban person to person gun sales. You can only sell to a registered dealer. No more gun shows. Expand buy back programs. Raises taxes on ammunition.
JungleBoogie: SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.I don't think so. Dead adults and teenagers - that's like war. Dead kindergardeners... one six year old grabbing his lunch before running out... that's something that's going to stick around for a long, long time.This was the type of massacre, sufficiently brutal and grotesque, to really get some effective changes done. People need to get off their lazy butts and get involved. The first problem is breaking the control moneyed interests have over DC. The second is reducing the manufacture and sale of firearms so criminals have less access to them.
s2s2s2: This argument fetish needs to end. This discussion is nothing if both sides aren't equally concerned with the same goal: saving lives.
Virtue: zedster: He is including military guns which are a different storyYou do realize that is coming from the anti gun crowd right?
Virtue: shower_in_my_socks: Then why is the murder rate in Japan, where guns are illegal, 1/8th the level of the US's? What, Japanese pyschos just aren't resourceful enough?As David Lamp writes at Cato,
buckler: I spent many, many years working with elementary-school-age kids, and had a particular fondness for the kindergartners, the little ones. Having no children of my own, they woke up my paternal instincts, and I delighted in teaching them, watching their eyes light up with discovery when they learned something new, or when I was greeted with a mass of hugs when walking in the door. I cared for all my kids, the thousands I took care of, but those tiny ones always held a place in my heart. I never forgot that I was being handed a huge responsibility in being trusted with a parent's most valuable asset in life: their child. I would have gladly given my own life to defend any one of them. I'm sure the dead teachers did the same.Got over the tears.Got over the urge to vomit.Still stunned.Dude had the decency to off himself...just wish he'd done it first.
coco ebert: inner ted: coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.yes, please keep bringing race into an incident that had little to nothing to do with race./when you tire out that chicken, what will you move on to?Isn't it crazy how it's never about race when a white person is the perpetrator?
HST's Dead Carcass: USP .45: Irony?It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.Yes, protecting the inhabitants of the nation is politicizing it.So, if the deaths were the case of food poisoning, would you be ok with more strict food preparation standards?Wait! I can't make analogies like this! It blows a huge hole in the logic of your argument! Food is not guns, how stupid can I be?
Sterling Thunder: my ONLY point is that if all the guns were gone tomorrow wastes like these would find another way.
shower_in_my_socks: pedrop357: Ban them and people will simply replace them with something else and you'll have accomplished little.Then why is the murder rate in Japan, where guns are illegal, 1/8th the level of the US's? What, Japanese pyschos just aren't resourceful enough?
Magorn: What worm-eaten excuse for a brain to you have to have that makes you capable of putting a rifle to your shoulder, looking down the sights seeing CHILD's Face and STILLbeing able pull the trigger?! Holy mother of god, how could ANYONE do that no matter how sick or filled with rage?
Imperialism: Can someone link me to a stream of some good coverage of this? Just got home and I am NOT going to CNN for this.
Ardilla: USP .45: Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.ABSOLUTELY THIS.If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?Irony?It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.
lacydog: netweavr: netweaI would assume that if a news story says no deaths, that there are no confirmed deaths to report. That's kind of the most important detail in a story like this, it's not like it would just slip their mind to report it. That's not to say any of the wounded couldn't end up dying (obviously you hope they don't), but as of right now, it certainly would appear that there are no deaths in that story.
Sterling Thunder: mrshowrules: IRQ12: : mrshowrulesJerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012Is there a source for this? If that is tru it's so brutal I can't even think,IfSterling Thunder: Having 4 kids this makes me very sad and very angry. I don't care about which side of gun control you fall on as there is likely no changing your mind. If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb, waste like this don't care or think they just act. Of course the cowards offed themselves or went and hid because consequences are for others. There is no punishment harsh enough.You start by saying you don't care which side you are on but then proceed to give a tired pro-gun argument.How long does it take to build a bomb big enough to kill this many people? How long does it take a mentally person to build a device like this. I had a close friend who has schizophrenia. When he was losing his faculties he found even the most mundane tasks complicated. Building a bomb for him would be impossible.I say I don't care because people have made up their minds, and that is fine. My very valid point is that wastes like this will find a way. I didn't say it was ok that they used guns or others should or shouldn't have them. Keep your projections to yourself.
Der Poopflinger: s2s2s2: This argument fetish needs to end. This discussion is nothing if both sides aren't equally concerned with the same goal: saving lives.I just think the trolls just need to fark off and find a different thread to play in
Sterling Thunder: LET ME BE CLEAR: I don't have an opinion on the guns, my ONLY point is that if all the guns were gone tomorrow wastes like these would find another way.
USP .45: Notice how you're suggesting things that would not have had any effect on the recent high profile shootings.I suspect this is intentional.
inner ted: coco ebert: inner ted: coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.yes, please keep bringing race into an incident that had little to nothing to do with race./when you tire out that chicken, what will you move on to?Isn't it crazy how it's never about race when a white person is the perpetrator?please do explain how race is any factor at all in this incident
zedster: Problem is that 1 is simply not true and on top of that ignores the fact that both have conscription and thus a higher level of training on guns among their citizens.
serial_crusher: eddievercetti: He killed kids, parents, roommate and maybe his girlfirendHow does somebody that crazy have a girlfriend, and I don't?
shower_in_my_socks: Sterling Thunder: my ONLY point is that if all the guns were gone tomorrow wastes like these would find another way.Yes, they would find another way. But it would be FAR LESS EFFECTIVE.
eagles95: mjohnson71: eagles95: I was going to be the designated driver at a holiday part tomorrow night. Meh....may be sleeping over now. Need a drink from all thisI don't drink when I get home from work; but a nice stiff gin and tonic would be very nice while I watch my son play.I make it a point to not drink around my kid. He wont be around tomorrow night to see how shiatfaced i get
The All-Powerful Atheismo: dukeblue219: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Don't most parents put the presents out on Christmas Eve?Unless it's different in different regions of the country, no. Other than the occasional "back in my day" I've never heard of parents putting out presents only on Christmas Eve. Ours were always placed under the tree a while before Christmas. That's not counting the "Santa" presents that always showed up overnight.. just the ones from each family member to the others, plus gifts from other folks outside the family. Regardless, if nothing else there's a closet full of presents somewhere that these parents are going to have to deal with :(weird. My dad always put them under the tree after I went to bed.My mom never gave me presents because she converted to Judaism and I wasn't Jewish.
USP .45: Red_Fox: I can't believe you NRA loving motherfarkers coming in here and bashing anyone speaking out against guns....today's not the day....my ass it's not. Today is precisely the day to start to change.Yes, today is the day for one-sided debate. What a tolerate liberal you are.
Gonz: My oldest son's 7. That's where my brain breaks.fark it, I need to bail from work and have a drink while I watch him play with his brother.
utah dude: pro-gun. lifetime NRA. anti-223 anti-civillian-m4/ar-15/m16's. they're just toys designed for killing people.
orclover: WhyteRaven74: JungleBoogie: y. We have a population that is more prone to internal violence than small, homogeneous groups of Israelis or Swedes, for a lot of reasons.Check the rates of poverty in Sweden or Switzerland, then check the poverty rate in the US. You have most of your issue right there.Getting mental health care is a tad easier as well. And by Tad I mean...farkING LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of us. So not so many crazy people just walking around with access to firearms.Give 100 sane people a button that kills anyone they choose instantly and you will have 100 people alive at the end of each day (barring accidents). Add 1 mentally unbalanced person tot he mix and you will likely have at least 1 dead very soon.ITS NOT THE farkING BUTTONS DOING THE KILLING./should I put that in bold?
letrole: letrole: But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of societycameroncrazy1984: Or, you know, a lack of mental healthcare in this country.zarberg: I wrote about just that after the Aurora shootings.These fellows aren't psychotic. They aren't incapable of conforming to the norms of society. They don't pick flowers off the wallpaper or fling their own poo. They have rational thoughts and high levels of capacity for achievement.They choose to be aberrations, simply because they can. It's now presented as a viable option, because society is unable to maintain strict compliance to absolute definitions of normal.Are those Goth kids *crazy*? Are Hipsters with their funny hats and cringeworthy tattoos and big holes in their ears -- are they actual lunatics?No. They're simply otherwise normal people who have chosen bizarre ways of expressing individuality, simply because they can.And some of these people who would otherwise conform to an enforced norm are free to fantasise and obsess over the short-lived power and glory that comes with conducting a spree.
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