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(CBS Connecticut)   Connecticut school shooting thread, Part 3. Bring the ongoing discussion/bar fight here   (connecticut.cbslocal.com) divider line 2790
    More: Followup, CBS, school shootings, Connecticut Post, emergency evacuation, Columbine High School, CBSNewYork, Newtown, Connecticut State Police  
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11298 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Dec 2012 at 3:34 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-14 04:01:54 PM  
Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster
 
2012-12-14 04:01:55 PM  

USP .45: Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?

Irony?

It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.


So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?

At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.

Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:57 PM  

GodLovesBeer: I have a real problem with how the news is dishing this shiat out. Way to interested in the mental health aspect, how this is going to effect you on a personal lvl, how you are going to respond to your kids..hugging them and kissing them reminding you that this couldn't happen anywhere anytime. Smells of fear mongering like a motherfarker, just shut the fark up and report the facts, we don't need YOUR "help" dealing with this mess.


Problem is since, Columbine, school shootings = ratings, nothing more. They report facts but no solution, and even then, the facts are at times false, one reason I think shootings are a epidemic is because the news itself, we focus on the shooter more than the victims. We should just spend time on the victims but sadly many would like to know, "Who could have done this?"
 
2012-12-14 04:01:57 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: stu1-1: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

You're talking about batshait crazy people, right?
How are you going to prevent that?

Add more mental institutions. Make psychiatric care free.


But why should I have to pay for someone else's healthcare???

OK, I don't agree with that question, but this is the current political environment we live in. Until we stop with all the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "everyone for themselves" mentality we aren't going to do a damn thing about any of this.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:00 PM  
Are we to the point yet where we can demand recommendations on policy changes from the NRA and their ilk on how to prevent insane folks from obtaining firearms? The issues surrounding mentally disturbed people and firearms is an existential issue for the NRA, are they just too stupid to realize it?
 
2012-12-14 04:02:00 PM  
Being the number 1 in gun ownership (maybe #2 behind Yeman) and cutting social services since Reagan is anyone really shocked? This is not a black swain, this is well with in the realm of modern American society.


I learned an invaluable lesson about American culture during my year in Israel. My room mate was an Israel Arab from a smaller village and thus wasn't as exposed to American culture as most Israelis. When I would ask him how his day was instead of the standard American one word response good,fine,etc... he would actually tell me! At first I found this off putting, I hadn't expected him to answer like that, but after awhile I realized how refreshing it was to not have a culture of keep it all in.
In the US as a society we teach people to repress emotion and even to feel bad for having them, specially with men/boys. It's not healthy, it part of the reason we are overworked, unhealthy, and drug addicted. On top of all that we glorify violence and make it seem like an okay outlet for that emotional build up, it's not healthy. Other countries have guns, other countries have see our media including video games and tv shows, the problem is something deeply deeply ingrained in our culture and there is no easy fix. Gun control, parental ratings on video games, better teachers, etc... none of that is a golden bullet to this issue, we need to stop and decided that someone saying "I need help" isn't to be ridiculed. We need to repair the social services in this country and work to get people the help they need, because right now we don't.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:02 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: USP .45: Irony?

It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.

Yes, protecting the inhabitants of the nation is politicizing it.

So, if the deaths were the case of food poisoning, would you be ok with more strict food preparation standards?

Wait! I can't make analogies like this! It blows a huge hole in the logic of your argument! Food is not guns, how stupid can I be?


No you agree with me. Keep the bacterial nutjobs of all sizes off the sterile guns and food.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:14 PM  

skullkrusher: Karma Curmudgeon: calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.

Why don't you have a seat over there.......

funny

Lost Thought 00: AlwaysRightBoy: /it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children

Don't rush to judgement. We don't have evidence that the children were not armed. It could have been just self defense

not


Hey, atleast some people are trying, instead of being all morose about it
 
2012-12-14 04:02:17 PM  

MaliFinn: Tad_Waxpole: Fὺck the NRA, and if you support them, then fὺck you too.

The NRA is keeping that side of the discussion alive. I don't care for their rhetoric, and I really don't care for the individual retard idiot member of the NRA who is undeservingly lent the respectability of millions of well-practiced deer hunters and military veterans who are sensible NRA members protecting rights they will not abuse. But firearms will not disappear from this earth until the last lathe is destroyed and the last recipe for gunpowder is forgotten, so we are adapting to a situation and attempting to make decision for the best of all of our people.

Guns don't make you safer. Guns don't make you stronger. Guns don't protect you. If you think these things are true, you are a coward. It does not change your right to own a gun, but it may indicate that you own a gun for the wrong reason. You can say "It's my right in an evil world to protect my family from a crazy bastard owning a gun," and it will be true, you have that right, but you are coming to the wrong conclusion. You are better off hiring professional law enforcement officers to wield firearms for you, so that you are not the target of the crazy bastard to begin with - or that if one of the thousand of things that could turn you into a crazy bastard happens, you don't end up being the one people need protection from. 

Guns don't kill people. Crazy people kill people. IMHO, most of you are crazy, so let's keep guns away from you.


Your opinion... really doesn't mean much.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:23 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: NBC news is back to regular programming FYI.


ABC and CBS are still going. And not sure about anyone else but my local Fox station is simulcasting Fox News.

That being said, unless we get something consistent from these sources, they might as well go to regularly scheduled programming.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:27 PM  

cman: Obviously something like this will evoke a strong output of emotions.

Right now, as information is coming in, and as it is still fresh, we are apt to make instant impactful statements that we do not think before we speak.

I implore everyone to process what they are about to say instead of just saying it.

We are all sickened by this. We are all angry by this. Right now lets focus on open minded discussion over insulting each other. Insulting each other does no one any good at this point; it only makes us even more emotional.

If you want to make a quip about gun control, dont act like an ass. If you want to make a quip about being against gun control, dont act like an ass.

Thank you for your attention


I feel like I dont always agree with your posts, but THIS.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:30 PM  
Having 4 kids this makes me very sad and very angry. I don't care about which side of gun control you fall on as there is likely no changing your mind. If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb, waste like this don't care or think they just act. Of course the cowards offed themselves or went and hid because consequences are for others. There is no punishment harsh enough.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:34 PM  
The best thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:58 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Here's a petition for those of you who think we need stronger gun control laws.

Link


Signed & shared.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:00 PM  

bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster


Ahh, so three AK-47s
 
2012-12-14 04:03:01 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Chummer45: For the record, my comment in the previous thread was poorly executed sarcasm. My point was that the bullshiat that gun nuts tell themselves over and over again (guns don't kill people; the second amendment protects me from tyranny; gun control only increases violence) is really just their way of ignoring the obvious: we have a severe problem with gun violence in this country that is exacerbated by extremely lax gun laws, but there's a large segment of the population that doesn't want the government interfering with their hobby.

I'm a gun owner, and enjoy the hobby. But I think it is way too easy to buy and sell handguns and semiautomatic rifles in this country, and would fully support common sense things like closing the gun show loophole, and reinstating the assault weapons ban.

Flame me if you want. Maybe more gun control would help, maybe it wouldn't. What I do know is that you can't commit a mass shooting without a gun. And it sickens me that these shootings keep on happening. We have to do something about it.

I'm right there with ya, and yes, they will come to flame you for no better reason than to flame. I've felt it a few times by trying to prove my point about responsible gun ownership vs. random gun ownership. I used a round about method to get to the point instead of being point blank. They've been trying to flame me over it for an hour or two now.


Yup. I feel like the voices of responsible gun owners who support reasonable restrictions tend to get drowned out by the "YOU'RE TAKING MY FREEDOM" crowd.

The NRA got far too powerful and far too political, and gun control as a hyperpoliticized wedge issue is the logical conclusion.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:03 PM  

IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?


This. They make doors that are only locked from the outside. I don't want random arseholes wandering through my kid's school for ANY reason. This isn't Walmart.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:08 PM  

Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?


wat, the gun made him do this?

Well I guess it would be easier to go after the gun's involved than what actually drives people to such conclusions. Completely ineffective and pointless in the end (how do you get ALL the guns again?, really? all of them?) but a hellovalot easier right?

You have a major mental health issue in this country, and it involves guns in absolutely no way whatsoever. And you are proof, right here, that the biggest, most dangerous issue this country has ever faced, will never, ever, farking ever be seriously addressed. You are farking this country. You are so focused on the results, and not the symptoms.

If I die of a heart attack with a mcburger stuffed in my mouth, Mcdonalds is NOT to blame. Why in the fark would you blame McDonalds you moron? Sure they made it easier, but its not thier hands doing the stuffing.

This is pontless me trying to explain it to you and the rest i know but I want to believe I at least made the effort before you waste the next decade on yer lil crusades.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:18 PM  

calbert: picture of the shooter:

[www.imfdb.org image 450x232]


I am going to hell for laughing at that, but it's one of my favorite movies.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:19 PM  

IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?


As early as 1994, Danbury High School, where I went and 2 towns over from Newtown, had metal detectors at all the major entrances and every other door was locked to prevent access from the outside, plus a full-time cop on staff. Granted, it was the largest high school in the state at that point. I have a friend who used to teach at Sandy Hook elementary a few years ago, so I'll ask her tonight about it.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:23 PM  

JungleBoogie: JungleBoogie: I want to post this by itself as it is the crux of the issue:

The pro-gun groups have made a very good point - criminals don't care about the laws. So the answer to mitigate gun murder is to limit the availability of guns at the manufacturing source. But first the political system must be reformed so it is no longer controlled by moneyed interests, who are able to block reform. These moneyed interest groups control both sides of the aisle.

dwrash:And I would like to point out that they will have to stop diesel fuel and home heating oil at its manufacturing source, along with fertilizer, ferrous oxide, aluminum powder, anything containing hydrochloric acid (and many other acids), most soaps and a host of over the counter and other easily obtained stuff.

The worse school deaths in history was the result of 3 bombs that went off in a Michigan school back in 1927 that killed 45 people... Timothy McVeigh killed more people with his bomb than all these sprees this year COMBINED.

IF someone wants to commit mass murder there is no way to reliable stop them, unless you know before hand and can take them into custody. Arm everybody?.. it won't stop bombs which are detonated remotely.

Good points.

BUT - no one is saying we're going to completely prevent future massacres. We simply wish to reduce their frequency and severity.

Perfection is impossible. And obviously, gun laws at the retail location don't work very well. Criminals get guns illegally. They don't care about the laws.

SO - the answer is to reduce the supply of firearms. This will mitigate the frequency and severity of firearm-based murder of which there have been entirely too many.

However, our political system is broken and completely in thrall to moneyed interests. In this case, the arms industry is able to block any reform. The financial industry was able to block any reform for the same reason. Before any real reform is possible, we must fix our political system. We've voted ourselves q ...


I disagree.. the only ones you will remove are the legal ones which will embolden the criminals.

I could also run around with a machete and a compound bow and do just as much damage.

For the record, I do not own a single firearm... but I am an archery instructor (mostly kids, recurve bows only).
 
2012-12-14 04:03:23 PM  
letrole: But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society

cameroncrazy1984: Or, you know, a lack of mental healthcare in this country.

That's the problem. They're all victims, usually pronounced along the lines of "Ahm uhh VICK-tim, Jeereh".
 
2012-12-14 04:03:33 PM  

coco ebert: There is no proper day for politics. Politics is a part of everything we do. If we were there or at the funeral, there is something to be said about not talking about something like that, but this is an internet posting board for chrissakes. Deal with it.


Link
 
2012-12-14 04:03:39 PM  
: mrshowrulesJerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012


Is there a source for this? If that is tru it's so brutal I can't even think,
 
2012-12-14 04:03:44 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: We should add the lives of the first responders to the toll -- the first people into that classroom full of dead kids are going to be psychologically farked for life.


That visual just made my brain go numb.

I quit.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:46 PM  
GODfarkINGDAMNITSOMUCH
.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:46 PM  
I was busy teaching all day and didn't see this until after school. I suddenly want to see my 5th graders now. =-(
 
2012-12-14 04:03:52 PM  
If the NTSB reacted as helplessly as many here do to news of another massacre, we'd have a lot more airline accidents.

Instead, they examine the situation, and issue updates on how to improve the system and fix the problem they observed. It's not perfect, there will be more accidents, but there will be fewer and less severe.

We want fewer and less severe massacres.

That's all we need to be doing here - don't react helplessly, understand the problem - moneyed interests having control over DC, preventing reform. Then fix that. Then, realize that criminals don't obey laws. They routinely flout them. So, we need to limit the number of firearms in circulation, by limiting their manufacture and sale. This limits the number of firearms criminals can illegally obtain.

The problem is not complicated. It will be a very difficult task to fix, but the necessary steps are not complicated. 

And we're not arguing for perfection. Perfect is the enemy of the good.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:53 PM  
I can't believe you NRA loving motherfarkers coming in here and bashing anyone speaking out against guns.

...today's not the day....my ass it's not. Today is precisely the day to start to change.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:58 PM  

cman: My previous message was asking for calm. Now this shall be my official message on what I believe could be done to prevent things like this.

Outlawing or restricting guns, IMO, would be attacking a symptom of a bigger problem. It has become very apparent that we do not spend enough money at a federal level on mental health resources. I believe that increasing federal funds for mental health access would in the long run significantly reduce these kinds of attacks. No one will ever be able to stop mass murder; it has always been in our history. But we can make an impact at prevention if we can find these folk early and give them access to be more mentally stable.

That is the cost of freedom right there; we pay more in taxes and we keep our weapons. Simple.


Too rational. I demand quick, knee-jerk reactions on the part of politicians who know absolutely nothing about the subject they wish to legislate.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:03 PM  

Ardilla: So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?

At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.

Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.


Anytime someone says "sensible" it tells me they have no farking clue about anything.

Say what the sensible guidelines and restrictions are. I already suggested one.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:04 PM  
Now there is a section of highway in Newton that is closed off....they say it's related to the shootings.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:10 PM  

chaoticcrash: The best thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.



I can't even begin to fathom the level of stupidity it takes to post something like that regarding a situation like this.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:34 PM  

Marine1: RockChalkH1N1: Dr. Drew, voice of reason

For real this time?


Always have been
 
2012-12-14 04:04:43 PM  

Lost Thought 00: skullkrusher: Karma Curmudgeon: calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.

Why don't you have a seat over there.......

funny

Lost Thought 00: AlwaysRightBoy: /it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children

Don't rush to judgement. We don't have evidence that the children were not armed. It could have been just self defense

not

Hey, atleast some people are trying, instead of being all morose about it


Some people are trying and succeeding.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:43 PM  
I feel old, and tired today. F**k this shiat.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:45 PM  
Gun control and disarming the US population seems as unliklely as nuclear disarment..."If u have one, I want one!"
If so many are armed in the US why isnt there better security in schools? A few armed staff members, and tougher security seems like the more programatic solution (Noone could enter my school unless they had requested a ID pass beforehand). It's not as hard as implementing a freaking fence along the borders! News like this is just sickening, and knowing that there will be more coming next year is infuriating....
 
2012-12-14 04:05:03 PM  

Leeds: Does anyone have a link to Obama's press conference? I missed it live and am curious to see what he had to say.


http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/12/barack-obama-speech-on-connectic u t-school-shooting-turns-very-emotional-83137.html
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-14 04:05:07 PM  

bootman: Are we to the point yet where we can demand recommendations on policy changes from the NRA and their ilk on how to prevent insane folks from obtaining firearms? The issues surrounding mentally disturbed people and firearms is an existential issue for the NRA, are they just too stupid to realize it?


This catches their rhetoric in a Catch-22. If they admit that firearms should be kept from some people then they have opened a door and admitted that there should be limits. The NRA doesn't EVER admit limits to the 2nd amendment. Maybe someone can correct me, but they pretty much believe as a rule that people should be allowed ANY type of firearm and any limiting factor is wrong. It's part of the reason their rhetoric is so irritating.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:25 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: letrole: But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society

Or, you know, a lack of mental healthcare in this country.


I wrote about just that after the Aurora shootings.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:28 PM  
I have absolutely no idea how to solve for this farking problem.

And as the father of two beautiful little princess snowflakes...this scares the holy shiat out of me.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:44 PM  

USP .45: No you agree with me. Keep the bacterial nutjobs of all sizes off the sterile guns and food.


Ok, I do agree with you. I also agree there should be more strict policies on people attempting to by guns. Seriously! How we go about proving someone is fit to own a gun is not my responsibility, as I do not have the required learning nor expertise to make that call, but I'm sure someone does.

Simply put: Guns cannot be in the house if a felon lives there, regardless of the crime they committed. It's the law. This is going beyond personal responsibility of the weapons into the home, and who has access to them. Teenagers are sociopaths, anyway, so why give them access to guns?

I don't have the answers, but we're all seeing the same problem.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:56 PM  

brnt00: Someone posted to my FB that a kid was yelling:

"I just want Christmas....I don't want to die. I just want to have Christmas"

true or not that's one of the saddest farking things I've ever read. just awful.


Oh god, I just realized these kids most likely have presents sitting at home under their trees right now.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:12 PM  

Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?


How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:16 PM  
I keep hearing "a whole lotta crazy" by ac/dc
 
2012-12-14 04:06:24 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: chaoticcrash: The best thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.


I can't even begin to fathom the level of stupidity it takes to post something like that regarding a situation like this.


I think it's clear that guns for 5 year olds must be mandatory.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:33 PM  

Pincy: Until we stop with all the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "everyone for themselves" mentality we aren't going to do a damn thing about any of this.


So how exactly do you change the whole American psyche?
 
2012-12-14 04:06:34 PM  

Yogimus: Did he use a .88 Magnum?


88. 89. Whatever it takes.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:34 PM  

SharpieIncident: IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?

This. They make doors that are only locked from the outside. I don't want random arseholes wandering through my kid's school for ANY reason. This isn't Walmart.


My kids have them, but the front door is unlocked. I don't see how metal detectors would count.

Guy with guns walks in.

*BEEEP*BEEP*BEEP*

"Sir? can I ..."*BLAM*
 
2012-12-14 04:06:35 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: USP .45: No you agree with me. Keep the bacterial nutjobs of all sizes off the sterile guns and food.

Ok, I do agree with you. I also agree there should be more strict policies on people attempting to by guns. Seriously! How we go about proving someone is fit to own a gun is not my responsibility, as I do not have the required learning nor expertise to make that call, but I'm sure someone does.

Simply put: Guns cannot be in the house if a felon lives there, regardless of the crime they committed. It's the law. This is going beyond personal responsibility of the weapons into the home, and who has access to them. Teenagers are sociopaths, anyway, so why give them access to guns?

I don't have the answers, but we're all seeing the same problem.


It'd be cruel to send teenagers to Afghanistan without guns.
 
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