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(CBS Connecticut)   Connecticut school shooting thread, Part 3. Bring the ongoing discussion/bar fight here   (connecticut.cbslocal.com) divider line 2790
    More: Followup, CBS, school shootings, Connecticut Post, emergency evacuation, Columbine High School, CBSNewYork, Newtown, Connecticut State Police  
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11298 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Dec 2012 at 3:34 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-14 03:35:10 PM  
:(
 
2012-12-14 03:35:36 PM  
Better find a way to live with firearms. It's not unreasonable to imagine a future where 3d printers are ubiquitious, and people are already making working lower recievers with them. We don't have a choice going forward any more than Sony had a choice wrt to mp3s.
 
2012-12-14 03:36:03 PM  
Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.
 
2012-12-14 03:36:06 PM  
How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?
 
2012-12-14 03:36:29 PM  
Free Zima soup for all
 
2012-12-14 03:36:40 PM  
CBS News reports the gunman, identified as 24-year-old Ryan Lanza, was the son of a female teacher at the school who was killed in the mass shooting.

Bad editing here. Are they saying the gunman is dead? Or his mom, or both?
 
2012-12-14 03:36:44 PM  
Adam Lanza.
 
2012-12-14 03:36:47 PM  
This sums up how I feel about this:
"This will be my only post today. We are shocked and horrified by the news coming out of Connecticut. When senseless violence takes the most innocent of lives, our grief is all the deeper.

Many will seek to turn their outrage to action. But now is not the time for politics. Let us instead reflect upon what was lost today, and first grieve together for the victims, many of whom were just children." ~George Takei via Facebook.

My rage will boil in a few minutes, impotent as it may be.
 
2012-12-14 03:36:52 PM  

Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.


This. And a second body was found at the home.
 
2012-12-14 03:37:20 PM  
What's this about Adam Lanza?
 
2012-12-14 03:37:27 PM  
At this point, can we just agree that none of the media outlets are reporting this correctly and all we know are a bunch of people are dead?
 
2012-12-14 03:37:34 PM  
Foxnews still has the wrong guys photo plastered on their site..
 
2012-12-14 03:37:58 PM  
Today isn't the day for politics, but I would like to see a congressional report or an executive report on mass shootings and the motives, actors, and so on, for the last ten years or so.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:00 PM  

Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.


No, Ryan Lanza is dead and his brother is being held for questioning.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:01 PM  
We should reassign the TSA to protect our public schools.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:02 PM  
From the earlier thread...my point was that most animals don't kill their own like humans kill their own. So I misspoke on that point.

But, then, the nutbars who think this happened because of evolution being taught in schools or that there wasn't prayer in public schools, like Bryan Fischer is already blaring on his AFA broadcast...they are both tiring and infuriating, and lead one to at the very least misspeak...
 
2012-12-14 03:38:05 PM  

FinFangFark: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

This. And a second body was found at the home.


so half of all the news organizations' information was wrong :P
 
2012-12-14 03:38:24 PM  
This is what happens when you let Jedi be a religion.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:28 PM  
I would like to buy a round for everyone.

Also, cmon, if this wasn't holiday season and everyone wasn't goofing off at work these threads would be dismal and not so busy...

FREE DIRNKS
 
2012-12-14 03:38:35 PM  
Ryan Lanza that was posted from FB may be the shooters brother. Police are saying Ryan Lanza is in custody.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:36 PM  

Antimatter: Today isn't the day for politics


It never is.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:37 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

No, Ryan Lanza is dead and his brother is being held for questioning.


Wait what?
 
2012-12-14 03:38:39 PM  
News reports that Lanza killed himself

Farking coward
 
2012-12-14 03:38:39 PM  
Did he use a .88 Magnum?
 
2012-12-14 03:38:44 PM  
With this and what happened in China, is there nothing to help the mentally unstable at all?
 
2012-12-14 03:38:53 PM  

special20: We should reassign the TSA to protect our public schools.


The sad thing is that this isn't such a bad idea at this point.
 
2012-12-14 03:38:56 PM  
It's being reported that the gunman was repeatedly yelling "CLACKA AKBAR!" as he fired shots into the crowd of children.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:03 PM  

Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.


A second Lanza has just hit the.....

/I can't even finish this.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:04 PM  

Moderator: At this point in time information is coming in fast and we understand that you may want to link to a Facebook page or other information about the shooter.  Please try to refrain from doing so.  It is personal information, and it may link to innocent people unrelated to this tragedy.  Thank you for your consideration. 


One poor dude with the same name already has been blamed lots today. Good call.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:09 PM  

Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.


If that's true, good LORD did the news outlets fark up
 
2012-12-14 03:39:13 PM  
Feel that? That's freedom.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:19 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: No, Ryan Lanza is dead and his brother is being held for questioning.


The report I just read said his brother was found dead at the house.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:25 PM  
Ryan Lanza says it wasn't him on Facebook, so I guess that answers that.
http://gawker.com/5968551/this-ryan-lanza-facebook-profile-is-the-con n ecticut-shooter-stuff-is-farking-up-everything?tag=sandy-hook-shooting
 
2012-12-14 03:39:26 PM  
Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:33 PM  
Connecticut teacher here.

Really sad event. My sane s's cannot be expressed.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:40 PM  
This bastard killed his mother and brother, too.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:50 PM  
Got home from work, got on the internet, and...

...

I agree w. the 2nd headline, there are no words...
 
2012-12-14 03:39:50 PM  

Negligible: At this point, can we just agree that none of the media outlets are reporting this correctly and all we know are a bunch of people are dead?


There's too much information and the people who actually know what's going on are far too busy doing important work to worry about making sure the information getting out to us nobodies is accurate, which I think we can all agree is just fine.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:55 PM  
80,000 people die every year in the U.S. from alcohol related events. Reaction... meh who cares
30,000 from car accidents.. meh
3,000,000 die around the world from std's. meh
16,000 children die each DAY from starvation.. meh
1,000,000 die in the middle east because of a lie.. meh
 
2012-12-14 03:39:55 PM  

SharpieIncident: This sums up how I feel about this:
"This will be my only post today. We are shocked and horrified by the news coming out of Connecticut. When senseless violence takes the most innocent of lives, our grief is all the deeper.

Many will seek to turn their outrage to action. But now is not the time for politics. Let us instead reflect upon what was lost today, and first grieve together for the victims, many of whom were just children." ~George Takei via Facebook.

My rage will boil in a few minutes, impotent as it may be.


This is the one time that I disagree with George Takei. Outrage leads to action, and a resolution. Introspection leads to apathy, and continuation. I don't want this to continue.
 
2012-12-14 03:39:57 PM  
Didn't take long.While I was in the break room watching a replay of Obama's press conference, one of the rednecky warehouse guys said "Farking fake tears!" before storming out.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:04 PM  
Ok - this is why they should STFU for a few hours and get their FING story right
 
2012-12-14 03:40:04 PM  
What's more evil, a mentally ill person who could have been stopped by even a merely adequate mental healthcare system, or a healthcare system for profit that denies thousands of people coverage every day?

Not saying the shooter was mentally ill, but I just can't fathom how one could do this without something being wrong in their brain.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:06 PM  
The press conference shuffle.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:08 PM  
I keep coming back to The Onion article while I'm watching this. We'll blame something, call it a day, do nothing and let the cycle repeat.

It's probably going to happen with this and that's what infuriates me the most.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:16 PM  
I just read that the second guy found in the woods was the shooter's younger brother and their mother taught at the school.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:19 PM  
CNN reporting that shooter's brother found dead in Hoboken.

I thought his bro was in custody, or is this a different sibling? So he killed his mom, his bro is dead in another city. WTF just happened? Maybe the brother committed suicide when he got the news.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:20 PM  

Lundyn: The sad thing is that this isn't such a bad idea at this point.


No, its a horrible point. Especially since the TSA shouldn't exist in the first place.

eddievercetti: is there nothing to help the mentally unstable at all?


Not in China and not much in the US.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:21 PM  

The Incredible Sexual Egg: News reports that Lanza killed himself

Farking coward


Of course he did.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:29 PM  

Moderator: At this point in time information is coming in fast and we understand that you may want to link to a Facebook page or other information about the shooter.  Please try to refrain from doing so.  It is personal information, and it may link to innocent people unrelated to this tragedy.  Thank you for your consideration.


Couldn't agree more
 
2012-12-14 03:40:30 PM  
I'm done with work for the day... If anyone wants me meet for a drink in PDX, I need one. I'll be in downtown at the Schmub on SW 4th.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:32 PM  

Lsherm: Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.


He was clearly carrying an AK47 and a Glock.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:33 PM  

The Incredible Sexual Egg: News reports that Lanza killed himself


farker should have made that step 1.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:52 PM  
To unLurked in the last thread: Holy shiat man, I can't imagine having to deal with that wait. I can't imagine being one of those parents...fark. Just...yea, no one can tell you how you should feel. There's no way to deal with this emotionally in any manageable way. I'm glad your kid was okay; I hope you guys find some way to get through this.
 
2012-12-14 03:40:56 PM  
Listen, you all can blame the news channels for jumping the gun and sensationalizing things but you all are still watching the news, right? They only do it because they know that's what you want.

Maybe we can all just sit back a while and wait until the real story comes out?
 
2012-12-14 03:40:58 PM  
So, every news source in the world has been posting the picture of the wrong guy for hours on end.

GREAT JOB MEDIA! Way to totally just forego old rules of journalism that would prevent such a thing. Go go internet-era instant news!
 
2012-12-14 03:41:00 PM  

amquelbettamin: How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?


Sure. I got married 22 months.

Am getting divorced sometime in March.

/amidoinitright?
 
2012-12-14 03:41:04 PM  
20 kids dead :(
 
2012-12-14 03:41:12 PM  

KidSock2004: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

If that's true, good LORD did the news outlets fark up


What a farking day to be Ryan Lanza.

"You shot a bunch of people and we're showing everyone your face saying you shot a bunch of people"
"NO I DIDN'T WHAT THE FARK?!"
"Oops yeah our bad you didn't."
"Good, glad that's settled."
"It was your brother."
"..."
 
2012-12-14 03:41:20 PM  

GORDON: Hey is it too soon in this thread to nail these dead children to crosses in the name of politicizing gun control?


How about we politicize gun control using the victims from Aurora this week, and we tack the kids from CT up on the cross next week?

Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage? Which way does gravity go in your universe?
 
2012-12-14 03:41:21 PM  
New report is 20 children dead and 6 adults via the current news conference.
 
2012-12-14 03:41:24 PM  
picture of the shooter:

www.imfdb.org
 
2012-12-14 03:41:28 PM  
I can't believe I have to say this again: *Shut down the schools or this kind of tragedy will just keep happening.*
 
2012-12-14 03:41:28 PM  

Lundyn: special20: We should reassign the TSA to protect our public schools.

The sad thing is that this isn't such a bad idea at this point.


"Sir, I just need to look inside yo ass-hole."

/security breeeeeeeeeeeeeach
 
2012-12-14 03:41:45 PM  
Why didn't he just jump off the George Washington Bridge like all the other screwed up nutjobs?
 
2012-12-14 03:41:47 PM  
All the news agencies are wrong about everything. This is just a game of hide and seek gone wildly out of control.
 
2012-12-14 03:41:50 PM  
Video: Obama's statement. Link
 
2012-12-14 03:41:56 PM  
18 childred pronounced dead on scene, 2 dead children at area hospitals.

/fark
 
2012-12-14 03:41:58 PM  
Our ability to harm one another far exceeds our ability to reason and communicate with one another.

This is the natural result of a primitive brain coupled with efficient, technologically-advanced weaponry.

Damn you, humanity.
 
2012-12-14 03:41:58 PM  
I think I will save my snark for other threads.

Very sad day. My thoughts are with those with friends and loved ones affected by the shooting.
 
2012-12-14 03:41:59 PM  
20 kids dead. 18 at scene, 2 at hospital
 
2012-12-14 03:42:04 PM  
After seeing the governor speak, a little piece of me died inside when he didn't call out the media on giving people space and to speak only with officials on the tragedy. Not angry with the governer, but sad that this issue is never brought up by those who can put it in the proper spotlight.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:04 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: 80,000 people die every year in the U.S. from alcohol related events. Reaction... meh who cares
30,000 from car accidents.. meh
3,000,000 die around the world from std's. meh
16,000 children die each DAY from starvation.. meh
1,000,000 die in the middle east because of a lie.. meh


I can be outraged about more than on injustice at a time. Sorry to hear about your limitations.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:06 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-14 03:42:16 PM  
Does anyone have a good link on what's going on re: the man in custody? Is it indeed his (the dead shooter's) brother? Is he a suspect or simply being questioned? Is he the one who was reported as being seen fleeing the school?
 
2012-12-14 03:42:18 PM  

mjohnson71: Didn't take long.While I was in the break room watching a replay of Obama's press conference, one of the rednecky warehouse guys said "Farking fake tears!" before storming out.


Is Sandy Hook a scandal yet?

/There are already "false flaggers" who say this was a front for Obammer to take away are gunz. Shameful.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:20 PM  

calbert: picture of the shooter:

[www.imfdb.org image 450x232]


They made it for him special.

/I'm going to hell for laughing at that.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:23 PM  

eddievercetti: With this and what happened in China, is there nothing to help the mentally unstable at all?


I think in many cases no one really knows how insane they are. They walk around going about their daily life and seem normal, maybe a bit weird but nothing alarming and then one day they do something like this.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:24 PM  

Imperialism: KidSock2004: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

If that's true, good LORD did the news outlets fark up

What a farking day to be Ryan Lanza.

"You shot a bunch of people and we're showing everyone your face saying you shot a bunch of people"
"NO I DIDN'T WHAT THE FARK?!"
"Oops yeah our bad you didn't."
"Good, glad that's settled."
"It was your brother."
"..."


Did CNN or any other tv news post the facebook picture of the guy? Some people said they did(that facebook post itself for example) but I never saw it.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:28 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: CNN reporting that shooter's brother found dead in Hoboken.

I thought his bro was in custody, or is this a different sibling? So he killed his mom, his bro is dead in another city. WTF just happened? Maybe the brother committed suicide when he got the news.


Don't worry, I'm sure the major news outlets will clear that up.

/not
 
2012-12-14 03:42:30 PM  
Is it just me, or does Wolf Blitzer seem aroused by all this?
 
2012-12-14 03:42:36 PM  

USP .45: Well Obama just did so go for it.


Just exactly how did he do this Mr. .45??
 
2012-12-14 03:42:39 PM  

Imperialism: KidSock2004: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

If that's true, good LORD did the news outlets fark up

What a farking day to be Ryan Lanza.

"You shot a bunch of people and we're showing everyone your face saying you shot a bunch of people"
"NO I DIDN'T WHAT THE FARK?!"
"Oops yeah our bad you didn't."
"Good, glad that's settled."
"It was your brother."
"..."


I really farking hate 24-hour news. They're going to jump to Facebook with what they THINK is the name of the maniac and photos of people having nothing to do with it will be put all over the news.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:42 PM  
I am confused by all the comments about mental health care. I really don't think someone who is so disturbed that they would contemplate mass murder is going to seek professional help even in a country with more accessible or socialized healthcare.

Some people are just going to snap and do horrible things. When those people snap in a society where violence is glorified and guns are freely available, worse things are going to happen than in other societies. I think that's the problem. American society is not particularly healthy. People are conditioned to towards violence and guns. That worsens the impact of someone having a mental breakdown because they are more pre-disposed to more violent actions.

That's my theory, which I am totally unqualified to put forth.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:47 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: I thought his bro was in custody, or is this a different sibling? So he killed his mom, his bro is dead in another city. WTF just happened? Maybe the brother committed suicide when he got the news.


they were reporting he killed his mother and father earlier
 
2012-12-14 03:42:48 PM  
Westboro Baptist church blaming this on Maine, Maryland, and Washington legalizing same-sex marriages last month in 3...2...1...


/you know those f*ckers will
 
2012-12-14 03:42:48 PM  
Shooter killed himself, huh? It's a shame that he deprived the police of that honor.
 
2012-12-14 03:42:51 PM  
There is no proper day for politics. Politics is a part of everything we do. If we were there or at the funeral, there is something to be said about not talking about something like that, but this is an internet posting board for chrissakes. Deal with it.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:00 PM  

USP .45: Well Obama just did so go for it.


Shouldn't you be on some NRA site complaining about how everyone hates Whitey without any evidence?
 
2012-12-14 03:43:12 PM  

The Incredible Sexual Egg: News reports that Lanza killed himself

Farking coward


Hopefully he did. Don't waste the tax dollars prosecuting him.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:16 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

No, Ryan Lanza is dead and his brother is being held for questioning.


-Listen Betty, don't start up with your Ryan Lanza shiat again.

-Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:24 PM  

JinxofSpades: Ryan Lanza says it wasn't him on Facebook, so I guess that answers that.
http://gawker.com/5968551/this-ryan-lanza-facebook-profile-is-the-con n ecticut-shooter-stuff-is-farking-up-everything?tag=sandy-hook-shooting


I'm calling that image a hoax. There were a ton of fake Lanza accounts created today. Post an update, arrange a comment or two, then screenshot.

Hell, it could have been done in photoshop.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:24 PM  

nekom: Does anyone have a good link on what's going on re: the man in custody? Is it indeed his (the dead shooter's) brother? Is he a suspect or simply being questioned? Is he the one who was reported as being seen fleeing the school?


Give it a day, real-time news is never accurate nor complete. It's like relying on interns for bug-reports.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:27 PM  
I can't wait for the Murder She Wrote adaptation
 
2012-12-14 03:43:29 PM  

amquelbettamin: How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?


I just took a final, and I'm pretty sure I got a 100 on it, and a perfect score in the class overall. I got home and saw this on the news. I hugged my cat.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:34 PM  
 
2012-12-14 03:43:47 PM  
Head state police guy says shootings took place in one section of school. Seems to be two specific classrooms.
 
2012-12-14 03:43:54 PM  

Jument: I am confused by all the comments about mental health care. I really don't think someone who is so disturbed that they would contemplate mass murder is going to seek professional help even in a country with more accessible or socialized healthcare.

Some people are just going to snap and do horrible things. When those people snap in a society where violence is glorified and guns are freely available, worse things are going to happen than in other societies. I think that's the problem. American society is not particularly healthy. People are conditioned to towards violence and guns. That worsens the impact of someone having a mental breakdown because they are more pre-disposed to more violent actions.

That's my theory, which I am totally unqualified to put forth.


except in, what, four of the past few shootings, they had been diagnosed as mentally ill and had sought help, but that never went anywhere?
 
2012-12-14 03:43:54 PM  
Obviously, schools and breeding are at fault here. Guns are a sacred right, education and procreation are not. Do away with public schools and stop having children, and those bullets pass harmlessly into the landscape.

...
 
2012-12-14 03:43:58 PM  
unLurked
2012-12-14 03:33:02 PM

get real: Brenda Lebinski was among the anxious parents outside the school, looking for her 8-year-old daughter.
"I saw her and it was the happiest moment of my life," she said.


As a parent I would hope I would show empathy instead of joy. Yes, be happy and also express sadness.

fark you. My kids were in that school. I stood therer and held my wife while armed officers stormed the building. I stood there and waiting and waited and waited. I stood there and watched them bring out one line of kids after another.

When I saw my daughter and then my son. it was the happiest day of *my* life. So take your sanctimonious self righteous bullshiat and shove it up your ass.

//my little girl knew at least 3 or 4 of those dead kids and my wife was their Troop leader. Of course we are sad, you asshole.


EXACTLY THIS!!!!! I can't even imagine the complete terror someone would feel not knowing if their baby was alive or dead.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:01 PM  
I think we can all agree that Mark Zuckerberg needs to be punched for inventing a site that allows bleeding heart narcissists to post text roses to tragedies.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:01 PM  
God works in mysterious ways................................
 
2012-12-14 03:44:05 PM  
I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:05 PM  

Karma Curmudgeon: Popcorn Johnny: Moonfisher: Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

No, Ryan Lanza is dead and his brother is being held for questioning.

-Listen Betty, don't start up with your Ryan Lanza shiat again.

-Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.


It's really the only sensible option.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:13 PM  
Moonfisher Ok, they are now saying Ryan Lanza is alive and in custody, that his younger brother Adam was the shooter and is dead.

Oh holy fark. :(
 
2012-12-14 03:44:14 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 80,000 people die every year in the U.S. from alcohol related events. Reaction... meh who cares
30,000 from car accidents.. meh
3,000,000 die around the world from std's. meh
16,000 children die each DAY from starvation.. meh
1,000,000 die in the middle east because of a lie.. meh

I can be outraged about more than on injustice at a time. Sorry to hear about your limitations.


The point.. you missed it.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:27 PM  
LOL @ the news throwing any name they hear under the bus.

Anyone heard this elsewhere:

"WCBS-TV: Some children found hiding in closets moments ago at Connecticut school in Newtown"

Came through like 10 minutes ago.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:28 PM  

WhyteRaven74: they were reporting he killed his mother and father earlier



His mother worked at the school. Possible chain of events: gets pissed at his family, kills his bro, drives to his mother's school, kills her, and then just goes completely farking apeshiat and kills every little kid in the room. CRAZY.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:37 PM  
Obviously something like this will evoke a strong output of emotions.

Right now, as information is coming in, and as it is still fresh, we are apt to make instant impactful statements that we do not think before we speak.

I implore everyone to process what they are about to say instead of just saying it.

We are all sickened by this. We are all angry by this. Right now lets focus on open minded discussion over insulting each other. Insulting each other does no one any good at this point; it only makes us even more emotional.

If you want to make a quip about gun control, dont act like an ass. If you want to make a quip about being against gun control, dont act like an ass.

Thank you for your attention
 
2012-12-14 03:44:43 PM  
 
2012-12-14 03:44:43 PM  

serial_crusher: Shooter killed himself, huh? It's a shame that he deprived the police of that honor.


It's a REAL shame he didn't do that FIRST. Miserable prick had to take innocent children's lives, times like this I wish I believed in hell.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:45 PM  
This is too heart wrenching to even do that, subby. I'm out.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:51 PM  
Can't stop crying. Cannot understand what went so very very wrong in this person/person's life that drove him to this. Absolutely heart breaking. And in no way is this a political thing but Obama's speech while fighting back tears...made me sob.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:51 PM  

GORDON: Hey is it too soon in this thread to nail these dead children to crosses in the name of politicizing gun control?


If there isn't to be a conversation about gun control now, when is it going to happen? What is the window on that? Because this kind of thing happens all too frequently.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:55 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Why didn't he just jump off the George Washington Bridge like all the other screwed up nutjobs?


they put up fences there on the walk paths to prevent that. I used to ride my bike across every so often.
 
2012-12-14 03:45:01 PM  
Looking around the office today, the folks without kids look are shocked, the folks with kids look completely devastated. Obama lost it in the press conference. God farking dammit.
 
2012-12-14 03:45:01 PM  
All I can say is I can't wait to get home tonight and really hug my 6 year old daughter who is in Kindergarten.

This hits way too close to home. I cried a little talking to my wife about it over the phone.

/so sad
 
2012-12-14 03:45:01 PM  

dennysgod: Westboro Baptist church blaming this on Maine, Maryland, and Washington legalizing same-sex marriages last month in 3...2...1...


/you know those f*ckers will


Everybody is going to blame something no matter how relevant it is. The way the shooter grew up, his background nationality, that one political belief he had in high school, that club he was part of, what videogames he played. Anything to just settle with their beliefs so they can walk away and not have to deal with the crushing reality.
 
2012-12-14 03:45:11 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: WhyteRaven74: they were reporting he killed his mother and father earlier


His mother worked at the school. Possible chain of events: gets pissed at his family, kills his bro, drives to his mother's school, kills her, and then just goes completely farking apeshiat and kills every little kid in the room. CRAZY.


Why is the other brother in custody then?
 
2012-12-14 03:45:25 PM  
MY kids get off the bus in 5-10 minutes... when they get off i am giving them a HUGE hug and be thanking the Architect that they are still safe and we will still have a Christmas with a family that is whole...

My heart goes out to the parents... Nothing will bring their children back, nothing will give them comfort...
 
2012-12-14 03:45:36 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Video: Obama's statement. Link


Transcript: Here
 
2012-12-14 03:45:39 PM  

Leeds: Does anyone have a link to Obama's press conference? I missed it live and am curious to see what he had to say.


I watched it live. Brief and moving. President hinted that action will be taken to attempt to stop these atrocities.
 
2012-12-14 03:45:43 PM  
Fine, this is too early to discuss gun control (I prefer an outright ban on all guns of all kind, starting right now, but anyway) because it is just happening and now is not the time.

Aurora happened a while ago, let's talk how we would have prevented that.
Gabby Gifford got shot over a year ago, let's talk how we could prevented that.
Let's talk why those Sikhs died.
Let's talk Virginia tech.
Let's talk Nadal's army shooting.
Let's talk the mall shootings this Tuesday.

What the fark? How much farking more blood you want?
 
2012-12-14 03:45:46 PM  

Somacandra: USP .45: Well Obama just did so go for it.

Shouldn't you be on some NRA site complaining about how everyone hates Whitey without any evidence?


no I was saying white people are latenty racist regarding another issue, but continue with the texbook "call him a racist" trick.

Also, Obama's statement was curiously linked for us. Why don't you watch it.
 
2012-12-14 03:45:47 PM  
Mental illness is a farking real b.
 
2012-12-14 03:45:49 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: shower_in_my_socks: WhyteRaven74: they were reporting he killed his mother and father earlier


His mother worked at the school. Possible chain of events: gets pissed at his family, kills his bro, drives to his mother's school, kills her, and then just goes completely farking apeshiat and kills every little kid in the room. CRAZY.

Why is the other brother in custody then?


Possibly because a bunch of pissed-off parents were given his name by an idiotic media?
 
2012-12-14 03:45:49 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I'm done with work for the day... If anyone wants me meet for a drink in PDX, I need one. I'll be in downtown at the Schmub on SW 4th.


I'd join you but I'm stuck at work for a while. On top of being Friday this shiat is distracting...
 
2012-12-14 03:46:07 PM  
Unfortunate Yahoo trending placement:


01 School shooting in Connecticut
02 Best Funeral Ever
 
2012-12-14 03:46:12 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Vegan Meat Popsicle: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 80,000 people die every year in the U.S. from alcohol related events. Reaction... meh who cares
30,000 from car accidents.. meh
3,000,000 die around the world from std's. meh
16,000 children die each DAY from starvation.. meh
1,000,000 die in the middle east because of a lie.. meh

I can be outraged about more than on injustice at a time. Sorry to hear about your limitations.

The point.. you missed it.


It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same, and most of us are upset about that crap too.
 
2012-12-14 03:46:17 PM  
For the record, my comment in the previous thread was poorly executed sarcasm. My point was that the bullshiat that gun nuts tell themselves over and over again (guns don't kill people; the second amendment protects me from tyranny; gun control only increases violence) is really just their way of ignoring the obvious: we have a severe problem with gun violence in this country that is exacerbated by extremely lax gun laws, but there's a large segment of the population that doesn't want the government interfering with their hobby.

I'm a gun owner, and enjoy the hobby. But I think it is way too easy to buy and sell handguns and semiautomatic rifles in this country, and would fully support common sense things like closing the gun show loophole, and reinstating the assault weapons ban.

Flame me if you want. Maybe more gun control would help, maybe it wouldn't. What I do know is that you can't commit a mass shooting without a gun. And it sickens me that these shootings keep on happening. We have to do something about it.
 
2012-12-14 03:46:22 PM  
BronyMedic:
[Citation Needed] that a CCW has ever stopped a spree shooter in a School or College Campus. It's ALWAYS been people taking action to overwhelm and rush the shooter, or campus police drilling them in the skill. Or they've had their guns jam, or killed themselves.

It's been posted in both the threads on this topic today.
It was posted in the "mall shooter" thread
It has been posted in several gun thread before that.

Your refusal to face reality does not change the facts. They are as a wise man once said, "Stubborn things"

1) ========================================================
Pearl High School in Pearl Mississippi, October 1, 1997.

A 16 year-old student, Luke Woodham, after slitting his mothers throat, showed up at school with a .30-30 rifle and started shooting. Upon hearing the shots, the Principal immediately called 911 seeking help from the Police, as more shots rang out.

Assistant Principal, Joel Myrick, reacted much differently, though. Hearing the shots, he ran to his parked truck and retrieved his own .45 caliber pistol and chased Woodham down, holding him at bay by pointing the loaded weapon right at his face. Woodham stopped his carnage right there.


2) ========================================================
Parker Middle School dance shooting April 24, 1998

Wurst showed up late to the dance, with his father's .25-caliber pistol in a holster belt under his jacket. He had previously left a suicide note under his pillow, and stated to investigators that he planned to go to the dance and kill only himself.[4]

The shooting began on an outdoor patio, about 20 minutes before the dance was scheduled to end, around 9:40. He shot John Gillette ....

...Wurst proceeded to enter Nick's Place, where the dance had been held, and subsequently fired and wounded Edrye Boraten, a teacher and two students, Jacob Tury and Justin Fletcher.[1] The shooting ended when the owner of Nick's Place, James Strand, intervened and confronted Wurst with his shotgun, ordering him to drop his weapon and later holding him at bay for eleven minutes

But lets keep trying it your way. Disarm groups then wonder how bad things happen.

You've stacked all the cards are stacked in your favor and you're still wrong. Your side has setup situations where people are disarmed then puff your chest up and demand evidence victims in that disarmed population defended themselves with guns you took from them.

Columbine -no guns allowed- Cops sat outside while students were being killed yet your side blames gun owners for not stopping the active shooters.

V. Tech -no guns allow- yet hoplophobes hopped in the thread demanding gun owners explain why a law abiding gun owner didn't stop the shooting.

CO Theater -no guns allow- yet your side ridiculed the fact that no gun owner stopped the shooting.

Oregon mall shooting - -no guns allow- yet again (seeing a trend yet?)

The "logic" of your argument is so clearly flawed yet you never stop using it.

We keep trying it your way, with disarmed victim zones. What do they call trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?
 
2012-12-14 03:46:29 PM  

netweavr: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 640x376]


Not cool.
 
2012-12-14 03:46:36 PM  

nekom: serial_crusher: Shooter killed himself, huh? It's a shame that he deprived the police of that honor.

It's a REAL shame he didn't do that FIRST. Miserable prick had to take innocent children's lives, times like this I wish I believed in hell.


You know, hell exists to me. Physically burning in a lake of fire, or being an object of protracted hate for as long as your name exists in human memory... what's the difference?
 
2012-12-14 03:46:41 PM  
The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitmore, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes
 
2012-12-14 03:46:41 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Video: Obama's statement. Link


:(
 
2012-12-14 03:46:43 PM  
It would be wonderful if we could keep firearms out of the hands of hell spawn lunatics like these, but does anyone realistically expect that our Federal government could pull it off? All they can do is restrict gun ownership among the sane, law abiding population.

Statistics and rhetorical arguments on both sides of the issue be damned. People have been committing murderous atrocities on each other since the the dawn of man.

Any one who politicizes this tragedy is a douche.
 
2012-12-14 03:46:54 PM  
Only 1 wounded, means he methodically executed all those kids. This wasn't spray and pray. Horrible.
 
2012-12-14 03:46:54 PM  

Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.


Any information about whether the dude has a written history of mental illness? I don't have any problem with gun control that keeps them away from people like Seung Cho. Not sure about this nutjob's particulars though, whether or not there were warning signs.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:10 PM  
RIP Lanza 

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-14 03:47:14 PM  
I had to lay down and take a nap, I was so sad. I wake up and find out someone stabbed up children in China today as well.

:(
 
2012-12-14 03:47:21 PM  

Jument: I really don't think someone who is so disturbed that they would contemplate mass murder is going to seek professional help even in a country with more accessible or socialized healthcare.


The Aurora shooter was known to be mentally ill, but nothing was done because there was no requirement to do anything. The VT shooter was getting treatment alas how the school handled him was the worst possible thing they could've done.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:25 PM  

Calypsocookie: And in no way is this a political thing but Obama's speech while fighting back tears...made me sob.


Any empathic person with kids of their own--is going to mentally ask "what if" ---and is going to emotionally react to their own hypothetical. That's normal human emotion.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:30 PM  

IlGreven: SharpieIncident: This sums up how I feel about this:
"This will be my only post today. We are shocked and horrified by the news coming out of Connecticut. When senseless violence takes the most innocent of lives, our grief is all the deeper.

Many will seek to turn their outrage to action. But now is not the time for politics. Let us instead reflect upon what was lost today, and first grieve together for the victims, many of whom were just children." ~George Takei via Facebook.

My rage will boil in a few minutes, impotent as it may be.

This is the one time that I disagree with George Takei. Outrage leads to action, and a resolution. Introspection leads to apathy, and continuation. I don't want this to continue.


A resolution to what? Senseless tragedy? There are parents with Christmas gifts at home that will never be opened. An abyss where the heart once was. Can we not, as a human race, collectively pause and remember that these new political tools were once sweet little voices with souls of their own? Whether Left, Right, or Other, they deserve better.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:37 PM  
I saw this start this morning. I just heard there was 18 kids shot.

WTF already!

There has to be some video game or program all these shooters are watching.

Something's happening.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:39 PM  
The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:45 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Why is the other brother in custody then?



They could have him in custody for the sole reason that his brother just went apeshiat and killed the rest of his family and a bunch of kids. It doesn't mean they're charging him with anything, but they SURE AS FARK want to talk to him about what the fark just happened.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:55 PM  

Tax Boy: Dusk-You-n-Me: Video: Obama's statement. Link

Transcript: Here


Did he mention a possible terrorist attack?
 
2012-12-14 03:48:07 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: The point.. you missed it.


You're comparing chronic social and health conditions with ongoing attempts at resolution with a spree killing that's already over. I'd love to hear what "the point" is.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:12 PM  

nekom: serial_crusher: Shooter killed himself, huh? It's a shame that he deprived the police of that honor.

It's a REAL shame he didn't do that FIRST. Miserable prick had to take innocent children's lives, times like this I wish I believed in hell.


yes, that would have been preferable.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:14 PM  

monoski: GORDON: Hey is it too soon in this thread to nail these dead children to crosses in the name of politicizing gun control?

Discussion is long overdue. When do you propose the problem is discussed? Or do you feel there is no problem?


In other news, yet another knife-wielding asshole went tearing through a school in China.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:14 PM  

mayIFark: How much farking more blood you want?


media.giantbomb.com

all of it.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:22 PM  

amquelbettamin: How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?


Maybe not the happiest, but a recent one was on a hike to a two hundred foot tall waterfall with some buddies. It was cold and wet. Feet drenched from 6 river crossings at that point. Break for lunch and built a little fire, heated up some freeze dried hiker meals and shot the bull for a while. Turned it into a perfect day.

I guess the moral is be glad for what you have. Could be gone tomorrow.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:24 PM  
Dude killed his roommate too.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:25 PM  

orezona: This hits way too close to home. I cried a little talking to my wife about it over the phone.


A lot of us did. My wife gave our girls wet kisses on the phone so I could hear it. All three are napping together right now instead of separately.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:36 PM  

coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.


I dunnoa bout anyone else, but I bring it up whenever someone does something absolutely nutty, not just if they're white. JHC.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:39 PM  

davidphogan: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I'm done with work for the day... If anyone wants me meet for a drink in PDX, I need one. I'll be in downtown at the Schmub on SW 4th.

I'd join you but I'm stuck at work for a while. On top of being Friday this shiat is distracting...


Thanks - just called in sick myself. Sick of this world, sick of this shiat... man. My wife is subbing for people who didn't want to work at Clackamas Town Center today so. I don't know. Here I am a 30+ yr old guy with no kids sobbing at my computer. Glad I work at home.
 
2012-12-14 03:48:40 PM  

drivingsouth: RIP Lanza 

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x259]


ugh don't make me

[tony danza.jpg]
 
2012-12-14 03:48:44 PM  
The cop speaking now seems very coherent...
 
2012-12-14 03:48:47 PM  

Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.


At some point our politicians are going to have to drag out the growing gorilla in the room and bring it on stage. I can get waiting a few days to get the full details of the incident and motive, but they're going to have to stop farking running away.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:02 PM  

mayIFark: Fine, this is too early to discuss gun control (I prefer an outright ban on all guns of all kind, starting right now, but anyway) because it is just happening and now is not the time.


That's the solution for sure.

/sigh
 
2012-12-14 03:49:07 PM  

Titan_Uranus: Only 1 wounded, means he methodically executed all those kids. This wasn't spray and pray. Horrible.



Reports are that it was execution style. He just walked around a room full of cowering kids and shot them one by one.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:09 PM  

phritz: Looking around the office today, the folks without kids look are shocked, the folks with kids look completely devastated. Obama lost it in the press conference. God farking dammit.


As has been said in the other thread, it's a parent thing. Obama has 2 little girls. I have a daughter in Kindergarten myself. Any parent, myself included, is QUITE upset at something like this. I'm not saying non-parents aren't, just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:14 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Why is the other brother in custody then?


They could have him in custody for the sole reason that his brother just went apeshiat and killed the rest of his family and a bunch of kids. It doesn't mean they're charging him with anything, but they SURE AS FARK want to talk to him about what the fark just happened.


That's fair. Not thinking straight today, thanks.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:18 PM  
R.I.P. Tony Danza
 
2012-12-14 03:49:20 PM  

walkerhound: Tax Boy: Dusk-You-n-Me: Video: Obama's statement. Link

Transcript: Here

Did he mention a possible terrorist attack?


I don't like making jokes at times like these, but that one was funny enough that I'll let it go.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:24 PM  

Kit Fister: coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.

I dunnoa bout anyone else, but I bring it up whenever someone does something absolutely nutty, not just if they're white. JHC.


Awesome, then we're on the same page. *fistbump*
 
2012-12-14 03:49:26 PM  
Was there any previous sign of mental illness? I mean, you have to be pretty farked to shoot up an elementary school, but some people truly are just arseholes, not ill.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:34 PM  
Pssst...to any young kids reading Fark today in elementary school. First of all, you shouldn't be on this site, it's nasty. But second of all, when you go home tonight, you can pretty much write your own farking check. Have your folks been hemming and hawing about that puppy or bicycle or Xbox you really want for Christmas? Now's your chance. Just put on those big, wet anime eyes, and say something cute like, "I wuv you mommy," or "Can we have pasketti for dinner," and then drop a little hint about great it would be to have a bike or puppy or Xbox, and how happy it would make you and it sure would be a shame if Something Bad happened to you before you got a chance to enjoy it. Also, you got a pretty good shot at ice cream for dessert tonight.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:40 PM  

Chummer45: For the record, my comment in the previous thread was poorly executed sarcasm. My point was that the bullshiat that gun nuts tell themselves over and over again (guns don't kill people; the second amendment protects me from tyranny; gun control only increases violence) is really just their way of ignoring the obvious: we have a severe problem with gun violence in this country that is exacerbated by extremely lax gun laws, but there's a large segment of the population that doesn't want the government interfering with their hobby.

I'm a gun owner, and enjoy the hobby. But I think it is way too easy to buy and sell handguns and semiautomatic rifles in this country, and would fully support common sense things like closing the gun show loophole, and reinstating the assault weapons ban.

Flame me if you want. Maybe more gun control would help, maybe it wouldn't. What I do know is that you can't commit a mass shooting without a gun. And it sickens me that these shootings keep on happening. We have to do something about it.


I'm right there with ya, and yes, they will come to flame you for no better reason than to flame. I've felt it a few times by trying to prove my point about responsible gun ownership vs. random gun ownership. I used a round about method to get to the point instead of being point blank. They've been trying to flame me over it for an hour or two now.
 
2012-12-14 03:49:43 PM  

valar_morghulis: Tuesdae: USP .45: GORDON: Hey is it too soon in this thread to nail these dead children to crosses in the name of politicizing gun control?

Well Obama just did so go for it.

EABOD.

Or better yet, his words.

Stop being such a coward, USP .45. A gun-shilling coward.



"stop being"

read my posts in the previous thread ass, been doing nothing of the sort.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:01 PM  
I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:06 PM  

Lsherm: Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.


are you trying to say that it isn't an assault rifle since is a semi-auto?
 
2012-12-14 03:50:07 PM  

dennysgod: Westboro Baptist church blaming this on Maine, Maryland, and Washington legalizing same-sex marriages last month in 3...2...1...


/you know those f*ckers will


God, I never thought about them until now. They will do something, I'm sure.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:17 PM  
JungleBoogie: I want to post this by itself as it is the crux of the issue:

The pro-gun groups have made a very good point - criminals don't care about the laws. So the answer to mitigate gun murder is to limit the availability of guns at the manufacturing source. But first the political system must be reformed so it is no longer controlled by moneyed interests, who are able to block reform. These moneyed interest groups control both sides of the aisle.

dwrash:And I would like to point out that they will have to stop diesel fuel and home heating oil at its manufacturing source, along with fertilizer, ferrous oxide, aluminum powder, anything containing hydrochloric acid (and many other acids), most soaps and a host of over the counter and other easily obtained stuff.

The worse school deaths in history was the result of 3 bombs that went off in a Michigan school back in 1927 that killed 45 people... Timothy McVeigh killed more people with his bomb than all these sprees this year COMBINED.

IF someone wants to commit mass murder there is no way to reliable stop them, unless you know before hand and can take them into custody. Arm everybody?.. it won't stop bombs which are detonated remotely.


Good points.

BUT - no one is saying we're going to completely prevent future massacres. We simply wish to reduce their frequency and severity.

Perfection is impossible. And obviously, gun laws at the retail location don't work very well. Criminals get guns illegally. They don't care about the laws.

SO - the answer is to reduce the supply of firearms. This will mitigate the frequency and severity of firearm-based murder of which there have been entirely too many.

However, our political system is broken and completely in thrall to moneyed interests. In this case, the arms industry is able to block any reform. The financial industry was able to block any reform for the same reason. Before any real reform is possible, we must fix our political system. We've voted ourselves quite the klepto-idiocracy. This allows moneyed interests to block any reform. That must change first.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:19 PM  
Here's a petition for those of you who think we need stronger gun control laws.

Link
 
2012-12-14 03:50:21 PM  

mayIFark: Fine, this is too early to discuss gun control (I prefer an outright ban on all guns of all kind, starting right now, but anyway) because it is just happening and now is not the time.

Aurora happened a while ago, let's talk how we would have prevented that.
Gabby Gifford got shot over a year ago, let's talk how we could prevented that.
Let's talk why those Sikhs died.
Let's talk Virginia tech.
Let's talk Nadal's army shooting.
Let's talk the mall shootings this Tuesday.

What the fark? How much farking more blood you want?


Yeah, an outright ban on something that's held mostly by people who never use them to violent ends, and confiscation without due process.

That should end well and mitigate this problem enough for me to feel safe again.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:26 PM  
I predict much hand-wringing and fatalistically attributing the shooting to a "random act of evil" in an effort not to actually DO anything to stop this sort of shiat.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:30 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Jument: I really don't think someone who is so disturbed that they would contemplate mass murder is going to seek professional help even in a country with more accessible or socialized healthcare.

The Aurora shooter was known to be mentally ill, but nothing was done because there was no requirement to do anything. The VT shooter was getting treatment alas how the school handled him was the worst possible thing they could've done.


Well, perhaps I'm just talking out my ass then, at least in part.

American society still over-glorifies guns and violence IMHO. No easy fix for that.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:34 PM  
I wonder how long until I get an email about how many lives could have been saved had the students just been armed?

I think both sides of this argument engage in selective thinking, but the inevitable claim that making schools gun free zones is causing this is the most idiotic stance.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:34 PM  
All the parents picking up their kids this afternoon were somber, but anxious to get their hand on their kids... I didn't want my kid to hear anything or see me cry.

For every evil shiatty thing you hear there are millions of good parents who love and do amazing jobs. I dunno.

I'm turning off the news.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:39 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same,


They're all preventable. That's how they're the same.
 
2012-12-14 03:50:43 PM  

JinxofSpades: Ryan Lanza says it wasn't him on Facebook, so I guess that answers that.
http://gawker.com/5968551/this-ryan-lanza-facebook-profile-is-the-con n ecticut-shooter-stuff-is-farking-up-everything?tag=sandy-hook-shooting


For f--k's sake, Gawker:

Note: we also originally shared the photo, under the headline, "Is This Ryan Lanza, the Connecticut School Shooter?"; we didn't positively identify the profile as the shooter but did link to sources that did, and took it down to rewrite as soon as we saw evidence that it wasn't.)
[This 'Ryan Lanza Facebook Profile Is The Connecticut Shooter' Stuff Is farking Up Everything]


So yeah, we did the same jumping to conclusions crap that Fox did, and yeah, posted the photo too, but WE put a question mark at the end of our post!
 
2012-12-14 03:50:52 PM  

calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.


I wouldn't try that today.

/just sayin'
 
2012-12-14 03:50:56 PM  
I keep running outside and screaming at us.
/we have fallen

/it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children

/going outside to yell some more
 
2012-12-14 03:51:03 PM  
How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?
 
2012-12-14 03:51:18 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Kit Fister: The All-Powerful Atheismo: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Vegan Meat Popsicle: BraveNewCheneyWorld: 80,000 people die every year in the U.S. from alcohol related events. Reaction... meh who cares
30,000 from car accidents.. meh
3,000,000 die around the world from std's. meh
16,000 children die each DAY from starvation.. meh
1,000,000 die in the middle east because of a lie.. meh

I can be outraged about more than on injustice at a time. Sorry to hear about your limitations.

The point.. you missed it.

It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same, and most of us are upset about that crap too.

They're still a needless, useless, tragic, preventable death. How are they not the same?

If you really can't see the difference, you are being deliberately obtuse.


All deaths that are preventable are a tragedy. I don't weight some as different as others, just because of the object used.
 
2012-12-14 03:51:20 PM  
I texted my wife and she's a wreck. I told her to just hug our son after school and just let him chill out and be a kid. Dont bring up what happened unless he does and then texted her what Mr. Rogers said about in time of crisis. When i get home i'll take him to redbox so he can rent a movie and we can all just decompress tonight. No news, no cell phones just family time
 
2012-12-14 03:51:25 PM  
Yet, the shootings in AZ at the Giffords speech, TONS of people there had weapons and none of them used them.

In interviews they all said about the same things, that they were afraid if they shot others would think they were part of it and shoot them, that they ran for cover instead of trying to be a "hero", or that, when it comes down to it, unless a gun is pointed right at your face, it is very hard to shoot someone else, no matter what you see in the movies.

Funny how gun nuts never bring any of this up, how guns don't always save you.

Only reason that shooter was stopped was his gun jammed and people jumped him.

RARELY do you see a case where a shooter is stopped because someone with a gun shoots them, RARELY.

OnlyM3: BronyMedic:
[Citation Needed] that a CCW has ever stopped a spree shooter in a School or College Campus. It's ALWAYS been people taking action to overwhelm and rush the shooter, or campus police drilling them in the skill. Or they've had their guns jam, or killed themselves.
It's been posted in both the threads on this topic today.
It was posted in the "mall shooter" thread
It has been posted in several gun thread before that.

Your refusal to face reality does not change the facts. They are as a wise man once said, "Stubborn things"

1) ========================================================
Pearl High School in Pearl Mississippi, October 1, 1997.

A 16 year-old student, Luke Woodham, after slitting his mothers throat, showed up at school with a .30-30 rifle and started shooting. Upon hearing the shots, the Principal immediately called 911 seeking help from the Police, as more shots rang out.

Assistant Principal, Joel Myrick, reacted much differently, though. Hearing the shots, he ran to his parked truck and retrieved his own .45 caliber pistol and chased Woodham down, holding him at bay by pointing the loaded weapon right at his face. Woodham stopped his carnage right there.


2) ========================================================
Parker Middle School dance shooting April 24, 1998

Wurst showed up late to the dance, with his father's .25-caliber pistol in a holster belt under his jacket. He had previously left a suicide note under his pillow, and stated to investigators that he planned to go to the dance and kill only himself.[4]

The shooting began on an outdoor patio, about 20 minutes before the dance was scheduled to end, around 9:40. He shot John Gillette ....

...Wurst proceeded to enter Nick's Place, where the dance had been held, and subsequently fired and wounded Edrye Boraten, a teacher and two students, Jacob Tury and Justin Fletcher.[1] The shooting ended when the owner of Nick's Place, James Strand, intervened and confronte ...

 
2012-12-14 03:51:40 PM  
BronyMedic:That's powerful, hardcore derp there. You do realize that the only requirements to get a CCW permit are a 40 hour class, and be able to hit a stationary target, right? Virginia will let you do it completely online, even.

You're trying to compare someone who, on average, will shoot a weapon only once or twice in a blue moon, and has never been put in a tactical situation, to an officer who is trained and drilled in active shooter scenarios, and is taught from day one of his training how to respond to these, and how to engage someone who is in the middle of a crowd of fleeing people without (unless you're on the NYPD) capping everyone beside him or her.

A group of people with metal chairs in an active shooter scenario can do far more damage in stopping that shooter than a single CCW holder who's never used his weapon in anger.


you do realize that most cops never draw their sidearm except for annual qualifications and never take any advanced training? all CCWs that I know, including myself, shoot regularly and take many classes a year: tactical shooting, low light shooting, handgun, shotgun, rifle, home clearing, etc... well above what your average beat cop receives. I've put more rounds downrange in the last month that a lot of cops will in their career.
 
2012-12-14 03:51:45 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Dude killed his roommate too.



At this point, it might be more efficient to list people this @sshole DIDN'T kill today.
 
2012-12-14 03:51:45 PM  

Mrs.Sharpier: All the parents picking up their kids this afternoon were somber, but anxious to get their hand on their kids... I didn't want my kid to hear anything or see me cry.

For every evil shiatty thing you hear there are millions of good parents who love and do amazing jobs. I dunno.

I'm turning off the news.


That was the psychologists recommendation on the NBC feed this morning. Don't let your kids watch TV tonight - young ones can't distinguish between the tv and reality.
 
2012-12-14 03:51:45 PM  
Kinda disheartening when Obama starts rattling off all the scenes...first thought "damn, that list is too f*cking long"
 
2012-12-14 03:51:53 PM  

calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.


I hope you enjoy jail.
 
2012-12-14 03:52:01 PM  
I just thought 2012: Year of the Shooter was over...sadly, I was wrong.
 
2012-12-14 03:52:04 PM  

calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.


i have bail money.
 
2012-12-14 03:52:22 PM  

jdcgonzalez: amquelbettamin: How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?

Maybe not the happiest, but a recent one was on a hike to a two hundred foot tall waterfall with some buddies. It was cold and wet. Feet drenched from 6 river crossings at that point. Break for lunch and built a little fire, heated up some freeze dried hiker meals and shot the bull for a while. Turned it into a perfect day.

I guess the moral is be glad for what you have. Could be gone tomorrow.


Very nice, thanks. With a hundred more of these I may feel a bit better.
 
2012-12-14 03:52:35 PM  
"Like this if you are praying for the people of a town no one will care about next week."
 
2012-12-14 03:53:08 PM  
Just got here, have the douche 2nd amendment nuts come in to politicize the murder of children to defend their vaguely defined rights to own nuclear weapons?
 
2012-12-14 03:53:10 PM  
THIS ISN'T ABOUT *GUNS*!


www.thebuzzmedia.com

/he could have used his bare hands.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:12 PM  

CthulhuCalling: BronyMedic:That's powerful, hardcore derp there. You do realize that the only requirements to get a CCW permit are a 40 hour class, and be able to hit a stationary target, right? Virginia will let you do it completely online, even.

You're trying to compare someone who, on average, will shoot a weapon only once or twice in a blue moon, and has never been put in a tactical situation, to an officer who is trained and drilled in active shooter scenarios, and is taught from day one of his training how to respond to these, and how to engage someone who is in the middle of a crowd of fleeing people without (unless you're on the NYPD) capping everyone beside him or her.

A group of people with metal chairs in an active shooter scenario can do far more damage in stopping that shooter than a single CCW holder who's never used his weapon in anger.

you do realize that most cops never draw their sidearm except for annual qualifications and never take any advanced training? all CCWs that I know, including myself, shoot regularly and take many classes a year: tactical shooting, low light shooting, handgun, shotgun, rifle, home clearing, etc... well above what your average beat cop receives. I've put more rounds downrange in the last month that a lot of cops will in their career.


The crime rate of CCW holders is less than that of police, in some states. Ran the numbers a while back and first example was North Carolina.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:16 PM  
20 kids were killed. 18 at the school, and 2 of the 3 people that were rushed to the hospital were kids, and they've died. No word on the status and age of the 3rd person at the hospital.

Just FYI in case you didn't read up...Initially it was reported as Ryan Lanza as the shooter, and they had a suspect in custody at the scene, which was his younger brother.

Now it's being reported that the shooter is Adama Lanza, and that Ryan Lanza is in custody.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-14 03:53:23 PM  

JungleBoogie: However, our political system is broken and completely in thrall to moneyed interests. In this case, the arms industry is able to block any reform. The financial industry was able to block any reform for the same reason. Before any real reform is possible, we must fix our political system. We've voted ourselves quite the klepto-idiocracy. This allows moneyed interests to block any reform. That must change first.


Repeated for truth. I have already seen a personal attack about people posting concerns about the fact that he/she is concerned with the gun lobby. Sorry.. it isn't a "hippie" concern. The evidence is in front of everyone... the agenda in goverment is controlled by money right now. As a citizen I can't get a representative to listen to me unless I can pay $1 million dollars. One of the major reasons we don't have proper curbs on the industry is because of lobbyists. It's at the root of the problem just as lobbying is at the root of MOST of our political problems.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:26 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: The All-Powerful Atheismo: It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same,

They're all preventable. That's how they're the same.


That is ONE way they're the same, that doesn't mean they're exactly the same.

Oh and many of those aren't preventable, so your point is even more worthless.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:26 PM  
I keep running outside and screaming at us.

I do the same thing when there's a thread with the 'Florida' tag.
The key to it is, don't do it naked and just tell the neighbors that you saw a mouse on your kitchen floor.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:33 PM  

zarberg: Mrtraveler01: Why didn't he just jump off the George Washington Bridge like all the other screwed up nutjobs?

they put up fences there on the walk paths to prevent that. I used to ride my bike across every so often.


I was on the bridge just a couple of weeks ago, you can totally jump off if you want to.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:39 PM  

SharpieIncident: This sums up how I feel about this:
"This will be my only post today. We are shocked and horrified by the news coming out of Connecticut. When senseless violence takes the most innocent of lives, our grief is all the deeper.

Many will seek to turn their outrage to action. But now is not the time for politics. Let us instead reflect upon what was lost today, and first grieve together for the victims, many of whom were just children." ~George Takei via Facebook.

My rage will boil in a few minutes, impotent as it may be.


Needed repeating.

/Takei for President, 2016
 
2012-12-14 03:53:46 PM  

Godscrack: I saw this start this morning. I just heard there was 18 kids shot.

WTF already!

There has to be some video game or program all these shooters are watching.

Something's happening.


If you ban video games, gun's and Television...I guarantee there will be no more school violence within a year.

Well not really but it would make everybody feel like they had done something. And its a hellova lot easier than trying to fix the mental health and societal issues in this country amiright?
 
2012-12-14 03:53:47 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Note: we also originally shared the photo, under the headline, "Is This Ryan Lanza, the Connecticut School Shooter?"; we didn't positively identify the profile as the shooter but did link to sources that did, and took it down to rewrite as soon as we saw evidence that it wasn't.)
[This 'Ryan Lanza Facebook Profile Is The Connecticut Shooter' Stuff Is farking Up Everything]


So yeah, we did the same jumping to conclusions crap that Fox did, and yeah, posted the photo too, but WE put a question mark at the end of our post!


My general rule of thumb: if a "news" headline asks a yes/no question, the answer is 'no'.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:48 PM  

WhyteRaven74: shower_in_my_socks: I thought his bro was in custody, or is this a different sibling? So he killed his mom, his bro is dead in another city. WTF just happened? Maybe the brother committed suicide when he got the news.

they were reporting he killed his mother and father earlier


Are they now saying that he killed his mother and brother? Or is it his mother and father AND brother?

/This is getting confusing.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:50 PM  
So the hospital holds a press conference to say that they can't say anything.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:51 PM  

letrole: If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,


As they are with Jesus.
 
2012-12-14 03:53:55 PM  

tweek46420: Lsherm: Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.

are you trying to say that it isn't an assault rifle since is a semi-auto?


Look up the definition of assault rifle and then come back to the thread
 
2012-12-14 03:53:57 PM  

JonBuck: This bastard killed his mother and brother, too.


His father in Hoboken
 
2012-12-14 03:53:59 PM  

Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.


ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?
 
2012-12-14 03:54:13 PM  

CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown

- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012
 
2012-12-14 03:54:20 PM  
Off topic.... Is it just me, but EVERY time the Daily Show/Colbert Report goes on a break, something big happens.

Duh this isn't something they're going to report on jon and stephen would be giving a heartfelt reflection. It just seems that every time their show goes on a brief or holiday hiatus, something big takes place nationally or internationally.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:22 PM  

calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.


Why don't you have a seat over there.......
 
2012-12-14 03:54:24 PM  

BronyMedic: OnlyM3: 1) ========================================================
Pearl High School in Pearl Mississippi, October 1, 1997.

A 16 year-old student, Luke Woodham, after slitting his mothers throat, showed up at school with a .30-30 rifle and started shooting. Upon hearing the shots, the Principal immediately called 911 seeking help from the Police, as more shots rang out.

Assistant Principal, Joel Myrick, reacted much differently, though. Hearing the shots, he ran to his parked truck and retrieved his own .45 caliber pistol and chased Woodham down, holding him at bay by pointing the loaded weapon right at his face. Woodham stopped his carnage right there.

Uh, no. He did not "stop the carnage right there."Myrick ran out to get his weapon, while the shooter finished his killing spree and was about to flee in his mother's car. He jumped into the car and put the gun in the guy's face. The only thing he succeeded in stopping was the shooter leaving the school grounds.

OnlyM3: 2) ========================================================
Parker Middle School dance shooting April 24, 1998

Wurst showed up late to the dance, with his father's .25-caliber pistol in a holster belt under his jacket. He had previously left a suicide note under his pillow, and stated to investigators that he planned to go to the dance and kill only himself.[4]

The shooting began on an outdoor patio, about 20 minutes before the dance was scheduled to end, around 9:40. He shot John Gillette ....

...Wurst proceeded to enter Nick's Place, where the dance had been held, and subsequently fired and wounded Edrye Boraten, a teacher and two students, Jacob Tury and Justin Fletcher.[1] The shooting ended when the owner of Nick's Place, James Strand, intervened and confronted Wurst with his shotgun, ordering him to drop his weapon and later holding him at bay for eleven minutes

This shooting occured on private property. It was not a school spree shooting. In addition, the holder of the weapon did not f ...


Given your position on CCW, I'm sorry I sponsor you to TF.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:26 PM  

Lundyn: special20: We should reassign the TSA to protect our public schools.

The sad thing is that this isn't such a bad idea at this point.


...make lemonade, right? Still, those farkwits would likely screw up schools too.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:30 PM  

Tickle Mittens: Better find a way to live with firearms. It's not unreasonable to imagine a future where 3d printers are ubiquitious, and people are already making working lower recievers with them. We don't have a choice going forward any more than Sony had a choice wrt to mp3s.


How, exactly, do you plan to use a 3d printer to make ammunition. And no one is saying ban fire arms, so keep farking that straw man.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-14 03:54:31 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: So yeah, we did the same jumping to conclusions crap that Fox did, and yeah, posted the photo too, but WE put a question mark at the end of our post!


I hope they both get sued.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:37 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: So the hospital holds a press conference to say that they can't say anything.


Furthermore: "I can't answer any questions", and then he proceeds to take questions.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:38 PM  
He killed kids, parents, roommate and maybe his girlfirend...NO, I'm done giving this A-Hole the time of day, retcon his ass out of the history books! Just fark this black hearted person.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:39 PM  

mjohnson71: Didn't take long.While I was in the break room watching a replay of Obama's press conference, one of the rednecky warehouse guys said "Farking fake tears!" before storming out.


Words cannot express how I wish I was in that room to punch that guy in the mouth.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:42 PM  

calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.


Take candy, kids love taking candy from strangers. And hugs.
 
2012-12-14 03:54:45 PM  

cman: Obviously something like this will evoke a strong output of emotions.

Right now, as information is coming in, and as it is still fresh, we are apt to make instant impactful statements that we do not think before we speak.

I implore everyone to process what they are about to say instead of just saying it.

We are all sickened by this. We are all angry by this. Right now lets focus on open minded discussion over insulting each other. Insulting each other does no one any good at this point; it only makes us even more emotional.

If you want to make a quip about gun control, dont act like an ass. If you want to make a quip about being against gun control, dont act like an ass.

Thank you for your attention


Well said. Keep your heart full and your head clear the best you can.
 
2012-12-14 03:55:00 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: /it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children


Don't rush to judgement. We don't have evidence that the children were not armed. It could have been just self defense
 
2012-12-14 03:55:01 PM  

Kit Fister:
All deaths that are preventable are a tragedy. I don't weight some as different as others, just because of the object used.


Gee, I didn't say they weren't as bad, or that these deaths are "worse" than those deaths, I just said they aren't the same situation, which can change the emotional response. Also many of those listed aren't preventable.
 
2012-12-14 03:55:04 PM  

mayIFark: Fine, this is too early to discuss gun control (I prefer an outright ban on all guns of all kind, starting right now, but anyway) because it is just happening and now is not the time.

Aurora happened a while ago, let's talk how we would have prevented that.
Gabby Gifford got shot over a year ago, let's talk how we could prevented that.
Let's talk why those Sikhs died.
Let's talk Virginia tech.
Let's talk Nadal's army shooting.
Let's talk the mall shootings this Tuesday.

What the fark? How much farking more blood you want?


Due to the way our political system has metastasized, moneyed interests have outsized influence on politicians, and are able to block reform. Ref: the arms industry and the financial industry.

We currently have government of the highest bidder, by the highest bidder, for the highest bidder. That must be changed first.

Then, we must limit the number of firearms in circulation. Simple gun laws don't work as criminals don't care, they disobey the laws routinely. So there must be fewer firearms in circulation so they can illegally obtain fewer firearms.

And, it's not going to be perfect, but the best thing we can do is to reduce the frequency and severity of massacres. This goal is well within our grasp. If we choose to take the necessary actions.
 
2012-12-14 03:55:10 PM  

JonBuck: This bastard killed his mother and brother, too.


This pattern is not unusual. Kill someone at home than go somewhere and kill more. We've seen that one before. Ottawa (Canada) where I live had the St. Pious X massacre which followed this pattern back in the mid-70's. Nowhere near this scale though.
 
2012-12-14 03:55:11 PM  
www.arktimes.com


"Clearly today is not the time to talk about gun control.

And neither is tomorrow.

Or the next day.

Or the day after that.

Or the day after that..."
 
2012-12-14 03:55:16 PM  

calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.


I'm doing pictures of kids with Santa tonight at my kid's elementary school. You can bet every single one of those kids is getting a big hug from me tonight.
 
2012-12-14 03:55:49 PM  
Wow. What the hell. I like to comfort myself by saying I will never understand the thoughts inside that man's head.

And Obama's speech moved me. I hope that everyone involved in the inevitable gun control debate will take a breath and remember these kids who died. That's what it's about. Maybe you think the solution is tighter gun control. Maybe you think it's a stronger mental health system. Maybe it's more armed people at the schools.

But whatever side you come down on, remember that this is what motivates people. Not some abstract ideology that people want to implement in the name of socialism. Dead kids. In Anytown, USA. farking terrible - there are no good words for something like this. Honor the dead by not increasing the hatred and anger in this world when you debate their legacy.
 
2012-12-14 03:55:54 PM  

almandot: Off topic.... Is it just me, but EVERY time the Daily Show/Colbert Report goes on a break, something big happens.

Duh this isn't something they're going to report on jon and stephen would be giving a heartfelt reflection. It just seems that every time their show goes on a brief or holiday hiatus, something big takes place nationally or internationally.


Something big is always happening somewhere
 
2012-12-14 03:55:58 PM  

Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?


Irony?

It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:00 PM  

Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?


considering the mass shootings are starting to overlap, if we don't have the conversation in the 15 sanctioned minutes between massacres, we'll miss it.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:02 PM  

serial_crusher: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

Any information about whether the dude has a written history of mental illness? I don't have any problem with gun control that keeps them away from people like Seung Cho. Not sure about this nutjob's particulars though, whether or not there were warning signs.


It'll be a while before we know the particulars, of course. But the fact that the first thing to come up is "mental illness" is telling. I would bet a thousand dollars that this guy has a history of mental issues and some red flags in his past. But even if he doesn't, we've done absolutely nothing to address the fact that crazy people with a predilection for violence have far more access to firearms than they should because some people have an absolutist vision of the Second Amendment.

I have nothing to say yet about the particulars of this case. But the fact is that we've had yet another mass shooting that's killed grade-school children, and in the minds of some we're supposed to not talk about the larger issues involved. No. The need to prevent this stuff from happening again to the extent that we're able trumps peoples' feelings today.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:05 PM  
9bytz.com
 
2012-12-14 03:56:07 PM  
Shooter's GF and friend are missing. Another friend of shooter is missing, brother is in custody.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:12 PM  
Heartbreaking. Sickening.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:17 PM  
Time to face it, the American culture is a violent culture:

www.washingtonpost.com

taken from Eleven facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States
 
2012-12-14 03:56:23 PM  

tweek46420: Lsherm: Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.

are you trying to say that it isn't an assault rifle since is a semi-auto?


Well, yeah. Assault rifles are capable of three round bursts or are fully automatic. Semi-automatic rifles are just semi-automatic rifles. Just as dangerous as a semi-automatic pistol, but with a longer barrel.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:24 PM  

letrole: But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society


Or, you know, a lack of mental healthcare in this country.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:26 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: So the hospital holds a press conference to say that they can't say anything.


SOP when a hospital wants to say "Stop asking for information"
 
2012-12-14 03:56:31 PM  

ChipNASA: THIS ISN'T ABOUT *GUNS*!


[www.thebuzzmedia.com image 500x202]

/he could have used his bare hands.


The Chinese guy with a knife at a school was only about to wound 22 and may not even get a death from it.
 
2012-12-14 03:56:35 PM  

JerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012


oh my god. like in that classroom?
 
2012-12-14 03:56:37 PM  

Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.


You're talking about batshait crazy people, right?
How are you going to prevent that?
 
2012-12-14 03:56:50 PM  
MaliFinn

Obviously, schools and breeding are at fault here. Guns are a sacred right, education and procreation are not.

How about we simply protect our students as so many of us have called for, for over two decades now?

We've had idiots in DC on both sides of the political spectrum calling schools "soft targets" (the term makes my stomach turn) yet doing nothing to "harden" them. Why not? Is it they don't value the residents or they want bad things to happen to further their political goals


... or both?
 
2012-12-14 03:56:57 PM  

Fiction Fan: [img707.imageshack.us image 500x293]


I know this is Fark, but what is wrong with you?
 
2012-12-14 03:57:02 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: davidphogan: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I'm done with work for the day... If anyone wants me meet for a drink in PDX, I need one. I'll be in downtown at the Schmub on SW 4th.

I'd join you but I'm stuck at work for a while. On top of being Friday this shiat is distracting...

Thanks - just called in sick myself. Sick of this world, sick of this shiat... man. My wife is subbing for people who didn't want to work at Clackamas Town Center today so. I don't know. Here I am a 30+ yr old guy with no kids sobbing at my computer. Glad I work at home.


Ugh, with the wife at CTC I can understand how that could weigh on you as well. I guess it's better that at least my bosses are keeping me somewhat occupied.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:05 PM  

bulldg4life: Kinda disheartening when Obama starts rattling off all the scenes...first thought "damn, that list is too f*cking long"


And that was only in 2012
 
2012-12-14 03:57:07 PM  

eddievercetti: He killed kids, parents, roommate and maybe his girlfirend


How does somebody that crazy have a girlfriend, and I don't?
 
2012-12-14 03:57:12 PM  

CthulhuCalling:
you do realize that most cops never draw their sidearm except for annual qualifications and never take any advanced training? all CCWs that I know, including myself, shoot regularly and take many classes a year: tactical shooting, low light shooting, handgun, shotgun, rifle, home clearing, etc... well above what your average beat cop receives. I've put more rounds downrange in the last month that a lot of cops will in their career.


Do you know what the definition of anecdote is? Or what Dunning-Kruger is? Because that's what you're demonstrating here.

Your plinking means nothing. You are not trained to engage in an active shooter situation. You are NOT law enforcement. You are NOT a tactical operator. Your CCW is for personal defense only, in the immediate danger to your life, or the life of someone around you. It is not for you to charge forward like Call of Medal of Duty Black Ops, and save the day.

Please, oh please tell me you're going to use that in court when you decide to play "The Decider", rush in, and shoot the wrong person, or cap two people along with the shooter.

Because I would LOVE to see a prosecuting DA tear you to shreads on the stand when you say you're more "qualified" to pull the trigger than "a beat cop", and they point out just what kind of quarterly qualifications a COLEA-accredited department has to put their officers through.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:12 PM  
lawcane: For 30 years, I have said this, from John Hinkley to Mark David Chapman to this: "The greatest threat to our domestic life and liberty is not the brown people, but angry white guys"

tenpoundsofcheese
so for 30 years you have been a racist.

good to know.

And that makes me racist, how? Perhaps I hit a nerve
 
2012-12-14 03:57:14 PM  
Press outlets don't publicize suicides because they feel it gives the suicidal party attention and will promote others to take the same action. I believe this activity needs to be reversed, since crazies just take a shiat ton of innocents with them now as they kill themselves to get that attention. Also, it might finally shed a light on the incredible suicide problem we have in the United States.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:20 PM  

stu1-1: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

You're talking about batshait crazy people, right?
How are you going to prevent that?


Add more mental institutions. Make psychiatric care free.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:28 PM  

Yogimus: Did he use a .88 Magnum?


I hope you die of bone cancer.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:32 PM  

Karma Curmudgeon: calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.

Why don't you have a seat over there.......


funny

Lost Thought 00: AlwaysRightBoy: /it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children

Don't rush to judgement. We don't have evidence that the children were not armed. It could have been just self defense


not
 
2012-12-14 03:57:35 PM  
fark it, I'm out

25.media.tumblr.com

/going to start my own planet with blackjack and hookers
 
2012-12-14 03:57:41 PM  
"Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families.."

fark OFF

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:58 PM  
I'm not going to get into this debate, I'm just here to say the following...

My deepest sympathies for the families involved in this tragedy.

And while I normally don't think much of cops... The First Responders to this mess also have my sympathies for the fresh nightmares this nut job has given them.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:01 PM  

CthulhuCalling: you do realize that most cops never draw their sidearm except for annual qualifications and never take any advanced training? all CCWs that I know, including myself, shoot regularly and take many classes a year: tactical shooting, low light shooting, handgun, shotgun, rifle, home clearing, etc... well above what your average beat cop receives. I've put more rounds downrange in the last month that a lot of cops will in their career.


yeah, this. Cops might be the worst shooters of anyone who ever touched a gun. Going to the range on their own time? not in your life. It takes too much time away from their busy schedules of beating their girlfriends and drunk driving.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:01 PM  
CBS is showing more interviews with kids. These parents are farked in the head.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:04 PM  

Titan_Uranus: Only 1 wounded, means he methodically executed all those kids. This wasn't spray and pray. Horrible.


If true:
Hey Satan, you know that lowest pit of Hell where you keep the special things for really bad people; would you mind making room for this clown?
 
2012-12-14 03:58:05 PM  
They just showed the Principle and said she was both the principle and school psychologist.. K the original stories said that the 3 adults targeted were principle, school psychologist, and kindergarten teacher and that seemed like a particular progression before we knew he was the son of a teacher and not a parent of a student.. More just happenstance in her case now I guess. From the sounds of the earlier witness about them running out into the halls on hearing gunshots, it sounds like the principle led the charge to find out if her students were in danger.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:06 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: BraveNewCheneyWorld: The All-Powerful Atheismo: It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same,

They're all preventable. That's how they're the same.

That is ONE way they're the same, that doesn't mean they're exactly the same.

Oh and many of those aren't preventable, so your point is even more worthless.


Um. You won't accept a comparison unless I'm comparing things that are EXACTLY the same? What exactly would the the point of that, genius? I notice people resort to that defense when they have nothing intelligent to say. And yes, they're all preventable too.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:10 PM  
Official death toll appears to be 26 + the shooter. 20 kids, 6 adults.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:24 PM  

almandot: Off topic.... Is it just me, but EVERY time the Daily Show/Colbert Report goes on a break, something big happens.

Duh this isn't something they're going to report on jon and stephen would be giving a heartfelt reflection. It just seems that every time their show goes on a brief or holiday hiatus, something big takes place nationally or internationally.


COMEDY CENTRAL IS IN ON IT!

It's funny because you're right. Stewart was on hiatus when Cheney shot that guy, and he was so sad when he got back from vacation he dedicated his monologue to missing it. They tend to be on vacation when big shiat goes down.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:26 PM  
As a father and husband and son of a teacher, I am deeply upset and my heart goes out to everyone in Connecticut today who is experiencing the soul-crushing loss this tragedy has caused.

There are going to be empty beds tonight, Farkers. Empty little beds. Presents under trees that will never be opened. God. God damn, that... that's just heartbreaking.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:29 PM  
I have a real problem with how the news is dishing this shiat out. Way to interested in the mental health aspect, how this is going to effect you on a personal lvl, how you are going to respond to your kids..hugging them and kissing them reminding you that this couldn't happen anywhere anytime. Smells of fear mongering like a motherfarker, just shut the fark up and report the facts, we don't need YOUR "help" dealing with this mess.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:31 PM  
*sigh*
 
2012-12-14 03:58:33 PM  
A primary school, a place of safety. It's unthinkable and it happened. My heart aches for the families of the dead, and for the terrified children having to live with this memory. And their frantic parents. It's abomination made live. The abyss stared back at us.

One thing in these things, the Fark community is, by and large, pretty amazing at these times. Sure, my ignore list grows hugely, but the vast majority are a community, take them as they are all in all.

/not going to wrap the kidlets up in cotton wool, but dammit, sometimes I want to....
 
2012-12-14 03:58:38 PM  

JungleBoogie: mayIFark: Fine, this is too early to discuss gun control (I prefer an outright ban on all guns of all kind, starting right now, but anyway) because it is just happening and now is not the time.

Aurora happened a while ago, let's talk how we would have prevented that.
Gabby Gifford got shot over a year ago, let's talk how we could prevented that.
Let's talk why those Sikhs died.
Let's talk Virginia tech.
Let's talk Nadal's army shooting.
Let's talk the mall shootings this Tuesday.

What the fark? How much farking more blood you want?

Due to the way our political system has metastasized, moneyed interests have outsized influence on politicians, and are able to block reform. Ref: the arms industry and the financial industry.

We currently have government of the highest bidder, by the highest bidder, for the highest bidder. That must be changed first.

Then, we must limit the number of firearms in circulation. Simple gun laws don't work as criminals don't care, they disobey the laws routinely. So there must be fewer firearms in circulation so they can illegally obtain fewer firearms.

And, it's not going to be perfect, but the best thing we can do is to reduce the frequency and severity of massacres. This goal is well within our grasp. If we choose to take the necessary actions.


on those particular points, I will fight you to my last breath. I will not give up my rights for the illusion of safety. I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:40 PM  

Kit Fister: Given your position on CCW, I'm sorry I sponsor you to TF.


I'm not anti-CCW. I'm pro common sense. I'm also pro-CCW.

A CCW does not make you a trained operator in a tactical situation. Let's be honest here.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:45 PM  
Just saw Obama's speech. I kind of wish they gave him more time to set it up. This just happened a few hours ago and I personally am trying to figure out what the fark just happened. He and his wife must be really freaked out about this especially with their two kids.
 
2012-12-14 03:58:47 PM  
My daughter just woke up from her nap and I treated her to chocolate chip cookies. My wife gave me The Look™, I told her to turn on the news (while the daughter was doing something else). She came back five minutes later and said I was acquitted of all charges.
 
2012-12-14 03:59:06 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Official death toll appears to be 26 + the shooter. 20 kids, 6 adults.


That's just at the school.
 
2012-12-14 03:59:08 PM  
Lady on CNN: "Worst part was when cop standing in front of last 20 parents had to tell them that their kids were dead."

I'm pretty sure I would've just thrown up and collapsed if I was waiting outside the school and the kids just stopped coming out. Can't even imagine it.
 
2012-12-14 03:59:15 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I don't know. Here I am a 30+ yr old guy with no kids sobbing at my computer. Glad I work at home.


That's the reaction a normal healthy person should have to this kinda shiat.

Evil motherfarkers like this make me wish there really were a hell so he could suffer for all eternity.

Shiatty day to be an atheist.
 
2012-12-14 03:59:18 PM  
Report is the shooter had someone else's ID.
 
2012-12-14 03:59:24 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Popcorn Johnny: Dude killed his roommate too.


At this point, it might be more efficient to list people this @sshole DIDN'T kill today.


He turned me into a newt!

I got better.
 
2012-12-14 03:59:28 PM  

ansius: Time to face it, the American culture is a violent culture:

[www.washingtonpost.com image 850x695]

taken from Eleven facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States


Yeah, but you put Estonia and Mexico in there and we're good. Right?
 
2012-12-14 03:59:29 PM  

JerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012


My kids school trains and drills them in lock downs. Sad that this even has to be a thing but I'm glad they have some training anyways.
 
2012-12-14 04:00:00 PM  
Very appropriate:

The Trews - Gun Control
 
2012-12-14 04:00:02 PM  

USP .45: Irony?

It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.


Yes, protecting the inhabitants of the nation is politicizing it.

So, if the deaths were the case of food poisoning, would you be ok with more strict food preparation standards?

Wait! I can't make analogies like this! It blows a huge hole in the logic of your argument! Food is not guns, how stupid can I be?
 
2012-12-14 04:00:08 PM  

davidphogan: Moderator: At this point in time information is coming in fast and we understand that you may want to link to a Facebook page or other information about the shooter.  Please try to refrain from doing so.  It is personal information, and it may link to innocent people unrelated to this tragedy.  Thank you for your consideration. 

One poor dude with the same name already has been blamed lots today. Good call.


I'd be more sympathetic to that dude if he weren't capitalizing on the attention. He's been posting his YouTube stuff & changed his hometown to Hoboken, NJ.
 
2012-12-14 04:00:23 PM  
We should add the lives of the first responders to the toll -- the first people into that classroom full of dead kids are going to be psychologically farked for life.
 
2012-12-14 04:00:23 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: The All-Powerful Atheismo: BraveNewCheneyWorld: The All-Powerful Atheismo: It's a stupid point because those things aren't the same,

They're all preventable. That's how they're the same.

That is ONE way they're the same, that doesn't mean they're exactly the same.

Oh and many of those aren't preventable, so your point is even more worthless.

Um. You won't accept a comparison unless I'm comparing things that are EXACTLY the same? What exactly would the the point of that, genius? I notice people resort to that defense when they have nothing intelligent to say. And yes, they're all preventable too.


They're not all preventable by US, and WE are the ones reacting to it you idiot. Why are you people so farking obtuse? And heartless? An emotional response is affected by the manner in which the tragedy occurs. That's pretty farking simple. Everybody here thinks it's just as much of a tragedy if 20 kids die of starvation.
 
2012-12-14 04:00:29 PM  

Godscrack: "Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families.."

fark OFF


This isn't the best time to tell everyone how much of an atheist you are. No one ever cares and even less so at the moment.
 
2012-12-14 04:00:31 PM  
NBC news is back to regular programming FYI.
 
2012-12-14 04:00:34 PM  
Dr. Drew, voice of reason
 
2012-12-14 04:01:08 PM  

Kit Fister: on those particular points, I will fight you to my last breath. I will not give up my rights for the illusion of safety. I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.


What a valiant fight to have
 
2012-12-14 04:01:14 PM  

Lsherm: tweek46420: Lsherm: Fox news just broke the "assault rifle" cherry. Apparently an M4, but that that with a grain of salt. Both weapons were registered to the mother of the shooter, and unless she's a SWAT member, it was a semiautomatic rifle.

are you trying to say that it isn't an assault rifle since is a semi-auto?

Well, yeah. Assault rifles are capable of three round bursts or are fully automatic. Semi-automatic rifles are just semi-automatic rifles. Just as dangerous as a semi-automatic pistol, but with a longer barrel.


yeah, my bad was confusing assault rifle with assault weapon

not that an assault weapon can't fire full auto

Link
 
2012-12-14 04:01:15 PM  
.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:18 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Pssst...to any young kids reading Fark today in elementary school. First of all, you shouldn't be on this site, it's nasty. But second of all, when you go home tonight, you can pretty much write your own farking check. Have your folks been hemming and hawing about that puppy or bicycle or Xbox you really want for Christmas? Now's your chance. Just put on those big, wet anime eyes, and say something cute like, "I wuv you mommy," or "Can we have pasketti for dinner," and then drop a little hint about great it would be to have a bike or puppy or Xbox, and how happy it would make you and it sure would be a shame if Something Bad happened to you before you got a chance to enjoy it. Also, you got a pretty good shot at ice cream for dessert tonight.


This was... Ok I admit, kinda funny.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:21 PM  

Kit Fister: Jument: I am confused by all the comments about mental health care. I really don't think someone who is so disturbed that they would contemplate mass murder is going to seek professional help even in a country with more accessible or socialized healthcare.

Some people are just going to snap and do horrible things. When those people snap in a society where violence is glorified and guns are freely available, worse things are going to happen than in other societies. I think that's the problem. American society is not particularly healthy. People are conditioned to towards violence and guns. That worsens the impact of someone having a mental breakdown because they are more pre-disposed to more violent actions.

That's my theory, which I am totally unqualified to put forth.

except in, what, four of the past few shootings, they had been diagnosed as mentally ill and had sought help, but that never went anywhere?


And what about the kid in Colorado who was going to kill kids trick-or-treating on Halloween, but his psychologist turned him in before he could do it?
 
2012-12-14 04:01:34 PM  

RockChalkH1N1: Dr. Drew, voice of reason


For real this time?
 
2012-12-14 04:01:44 PM  
My previous message was asking for calm. Now this shall be my official message on what I believe could be done to prevent things like this.

Outlawing or restricting guns, IMO, would be attacking a symptom of a bigger problem. It has become very apparent that we do not spend enough money at a federal level on mental health resources. I believe that increasing federal funds for mental health access would in the long run significantly reduce these kinds of attacks. No one will ever be able to stop mass murder; it has always been in our history. But we can make an impact at prevention if we can find these folk early and give them access to be more mentally stable.

That is the cost of freedom right there; we pay more in taxes and we keep our weapons. Simple.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:46 PM  

amquelbettamin: jdcgonzalez: amquelbettamin: How about we post the happiest moments in our lives instead of talking about this evil?

Maybe not the happiest, but a recent one was on a hike to a two hundred foot tall waterfall with some buddies. It was cold and wet. Feet drenched from 6 river crossings at that point. Break for lunch and built a little fire, heated up some freeze dried hiker meals and shot the bull for a while. Turned it into a perfect day.

I guess the moral is be glad for what you have. Could be gone tomorrow.

Very nice, thanks. With a hundred more of these I may feel a bit better.


I like it. My moment (or one of them) was probably learning how to bake with my mom when I was about 7. I had the brilliant idea of turning the mixer on full speed when nothing but flour and sugar was in the bowl... spent a good ten minutes cleaning up the mess.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:52 PM  
Someone posted to my FB that a kid was yelling:

"I just want Christmas....I don't want to die. I just want to have Christmas"

true or not that's one of the saddest farking things I've ever read. just awful.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:54 PM  
Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster
 
2012-12-14 04:01:55 PM  

USP .45: Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?

Irony?

It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.


So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?

At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.

Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.
 
2012-12-14 04:01:57 PM  

GodLovesBeer: I have a real problem with how the news is dishing this shiat out. Way to interested in the mental health aspect, how this is going to effect you on a personal lvl, how you are going to respond to your kids..hugging them and kissing them reminding you that this couldn't happen anywhere anytime. Smells of fear mongering like a motherfarker, just shut the fark up and report the facts, we don't need YOUR "help" dealing with this mess.


Problem is since, Columbine, school shootings = ratings, nothing more. They report facts but no solution, and even then, the facts are at times false, one reason I think shootings are a epidemic is because the news itself, we focus on the shooter more than the victims. We should just spend time on the victims but sadly many would like to know, "Who could have done this?"
 
2012-12-14 04:01:57 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: stu1-1: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

You're talking about batshait crazy people, right?
How are you going to prevent that?

Add more mental institutions. Make psychiatric care free.


But why should I have to pay for someone else's healthcare???

OK, I don't agree with that question, but this is the current political environment we live in. Until we stop with all the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "everyone for themselves" mentality we aren't going to do a damn thing about any of this.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:00 PM  
Are we to the point yet where we can demand recommendations on policy changes from the NRA and their ilk on how to prevent insane folks from obtaining firearms? The issues surrounding mentally disturbed people and firearms is an existential issue for the NRA, are they just too stupid to realize it?
 
2012-12-14 04:02:00 PM  
Being the number 1 in gun ownership (maybe #2 behind Yeman) and cutting social services since Reagan is anyone really shocked? This is not a black swain, this is well with in the realm of modern American society.


I learned an invaluable lesson about American culture during my year in Israel. My room mate was an Israel Arab from a smaller village and thus wasn't as exposed to American culture as most Israelis. When I would ask him how his day was instead of the standard American one word response good,fine,etc... he would actually tell me! At first I found this off putting, I hadn't expected him to answer like that, but after awhile I realized how refreshing it was to not have a culture of keep it all in.
In the US as a society we teach people to repress emotion and even to feel bad for having them, specially with men/boys. It's not healthy, it part of the reason we are overworked, unhealthy, and drug addicted. On top of all that we glorify violence and make it seem like an okay outlet for that emotional build up, it's not healthy. Other countries have guns, other countries have see our media including video games and tv shows, the problem is something deeply deeply ingrained in our culture and there is no easy fix. Gun control, parental ratings on video games, better teachers, etc... none of that is a golden bullet to this issue, we need to stop and decided that someone saying "I need help" isn't to be ridiculed. We need to repair the social services in this country and work to get people the help they need, because right now we don't.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:02 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: USP .45: Irony?

It's nutjobs not being reported or examined as nutjobs. It's one civil liberty at odds with another (we need a national database of nutjobs?). Putting laws on the books regarding nutjobs not being allowed to have guns is easy, and has already been done.

Yes, protecting the inhabitants of the nation is politicizing it.

So, if the deaths were the case of food poisoning, would you be ok with more strict food preparation standards?

Wait! I can't make analogies like this! It blows a huge hole in the logic of your argument! Food is not guns, how stupid can I be?


No you agree with me. Keep the bacterial nutjobs of all sizes off the sterile guns and food.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:14 PM  

skullkrusher: Karma Curmudgeon: calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.

Why don't you have a seat over there.......

funny

Lost Thought 00: AlwaysRightBoy: /it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children

Don't rush to judgement. We don't have evidence that the children were not armed. It could have been just self defense

not


Hey, atleast some people are trying, instead of being all morose about it
 
2012-12-14 04:02:17 PM  

MaliFinn: Tad_Waxpole: Fὺck the NRA, and if you support them, then fὺck you too.

The NRA is keeping that side of the discussion alive. I don't care for their rhetoric, and I really don't care for the individual retard idiot member of the NRA who is undeservingly lent the respectability of millions of well-practiced deer hunters and military veterans who are sensible NRA members protecting rights they will not abuse. But firearms will not disappear from this earth until the last lathe is destroyed and the last recipe for gunpowder is forgotten, so we are adapting to a situation and attempting to make decision for the best of all of our people.

Guns don't make you safer. Guns don't make you stronger. Guns don't protect you. If you think these things are true, you are a coward. It does not change your right to own a gun, but it may indicate that you own a gun for the wrong reason. You can say "It's my right in an evil world to protect my family from a crazy bastard owning a gun," and it will be true, you have that right, but you are coming to the wrong conclusion. You are better off hiring professional law enforcement officers to wield firearms for you, so that you are not the target of the crazy bastard to begin with - or that if one of the thousand of things that could turn you into a crazy bastard happens, you don't end up being the one people need protection from. 

Guns don't kill people. Crazy people kill people. IMHO, most of you are crazy, so let's keep guns away from you.


Your opinion... really doesn't mean much.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:23 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: NBC news is back to regular programming FYI.


ABC and CBS are still going. And not sure about anyone else but my local Fox station is simulcasting Fox News.

That being said, unless we get something consistent from these sources, they might as well go to regularly scheduled programming.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:27 PM  

cman: Obviously something like this will evoke a strong output of emotions.

Right now, as information is coming in, and as it is still fresh, we are apt to make instant impactful statements that we do not think before we speak.

I implore everyone to process what they are about to say instead of just saying it.

We are all sickened by this. We are all angry by this. Right now lets focus on open minded discussion over insulting each other. Insulting each other does no one any good at this point; it only makes us even more emotional.

If you want to make a quip about gun control, dont act like an ass. If you want to make a quip about being against gun control, dont act like an ass.

Thank you for your attention


I feel like I dont always agree with your posts, but THIS.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:30 PM  
Having 4 kids this makes me very sad and very angry. I don't care about which side of gun control you fall on as there is likely no changing your mind. If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb, waste like this don't care or think they just act. Of course the cowards offed themselves or went and hid because consequences are for others. There is no punishment harsh enough.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:34 PM  
The best thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
 
2012-12-14 04:02:58 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Here's a petition for those of you who think we need stronger gun control laws.

Link


Signed & shared.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:00 PM  

bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster


Ahh, so three AK-47s
 
2012-12-14 04:03:01 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Chummer45: For the record, my comment in the previous thread was poorly executed sarcasm. My point was that the bullshiat that gun nuts tell themselves over and over again (guns don't kill people; the second amendment protects me from tyranny; gun control only increases violence) is really just their way of ignoring the obvious: we have a severe problem with gun violence in this country that is exacerbated by extremely lax gun laws, but there's a large segment of the population that doesn't want the government interfering with their hobby.

I'm a gun owner, and enjoy the hobby. But I think it is way too easy to buy and sell handguns and semiautomatic rifles in this country, and would fully support common sense things like closing the gun show loophole, and reinstating the assault weapons ban.

Flame me if you want. Maybe more gun control would help, maybe it wouldn't. What I do know is that you can't commit a mass shooting without a gun. And it sickens me that these shootings keep on happening. We have to do something about it.

I'm right there with ya, and yes, they will come to flame you for no better reason than to flame. I've felt it a few times by trying to prove my point about responsible gun ownership vs. random gun ownership. I used a round about method to get to the point instead of being point blank. They've been trying to flame me over it for an hour or two now.


Yup. I feel like the voices of responsible gun owners who support reasonable restrictions tend to get drowned out by the "YOU'RE TAKING MY FREEDOM" crowd.

The NRA got far too powerful and far too political, and gun control as a hyperpoliticized wedge issue is the logical conclusion.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:03 PM  

IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?


This. They make doors that are only locked from the outside. I don't want random arseholes wandering through my kid's school for ANY reason. This isn't Walmart.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:08 PM  

Ardilla: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

ABSOLUTELY THIS.

If now isn't the time to have a discussion about gun control, when will it ever be?


wat, the gun made him do this?

Well I guess it would be easier to go after the gun's involved than what actually drives people to such conclusions. Completely ineffective and pointless in the end (how do you get ALL the guns again?, really? all of them?) but a hellovalot easier right?

You have a major mental health issue in this country, and it involves guns in absolutely no way whatsoever. And you are proof, right here, that the biggest, most dangerous issue this country has ever faced, will never, ever, farking ever be seriously addressed. You are farking this country. You are so focused on the results, and not the symptoms.

If I die of a heart attack with a mcburger stuffed in my mouth, Mcdonalds is NOT to blame. Why in the fark would you blame McDonalds you moron? Sure they made it easier, but its not thier hands doing the stuffing.

This is pontless me trying to explain it to you and the rest i know but I want to believe I at least made the effort before you waste the next decade on yer lil crusades.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:18 PM  

calbert: picture of the shooter:

[www.imfdb.org image 450x232]


I am going to hell for laughing at that, but it's one of my favorite movies.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:19 PM  

IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?


As early as 1994, Danbury High School, where I went and 2 towns over from Newtown, had metal detectors at all the major entrances and every other door was locked to prevent access from the outside, plus a full-time cop on staff. Granted, it was the largest high school in the state at that point. I have a friend who used to teach at Sandy Hook elementary a few years ago, so I'll ask her tonight about it.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:23 PM  

JungleBoogie: JungleBoogie: I want to post this by itself as it is the crux of the issue:

The pro-gun groups have made a very good point - criminals don't care about the laws. So the answer to mitigate gun murder is to limit the availability of guns at the manufacturing source. But first the political system must be reformed so it is no longer controlled by moneyed interests, who are able to block reform. These moneyed interest groups control both sides of the aisle.

dwrash:And I would like to point out that they will have to stop diesel fuel and home heating oil at its manufacturing source, along with fertilizer, ferrous oxide, aluminum powder, anything containing hydrochloric acid (and many other acids), most soaps and a host of over the counter and other easily obtained stuff.

The worse school deaths in history was the result of 3 bombs that went off in a Michigan school back in 1927 that killed 45 people... Timothy McVeigh killed more people with his bomb than all these sprees this year COMBINED.

IF someone wants to commit mass murder there is no way to reliable stop them, unless you know before hand and can take them into custody. Arm everybody?.. it won't stop bombs which are detonated remotely.

Good points.

BUT - no one is saying we're going to completely prevent future massacres. We simply wish to reduce their frequency and severity.

Perfection is impossible. And obviously, gun laws at the retail location don't work very well. Criminals get guns illegally. They don't care about the laws.

SO - the answer is to reduce the supply of firearms. This will mitigate the frequency and severity of firearm-based murder of which there have been entirely too many.

However, our political system is broken and completely in thrall to moneyed interests. In this case, the arms industry is able to block any reform. The financial industry was able to block any reform for the same reason. Before any real reform is possible, we must fix our political system. We've voted ourselves q ...


I disagree.. the only ones you will remove are the legal ones which will embolden the criminals.

I could also run around with a machete and a compound bow and do just as much damage.

For the record, I do not own a single firearm... but I am an archery instructor (mostly kids, recurve bows only).
 
2012-12-14 04:03:23 PM  
letrole: But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society

cameroncrazy1984: Or, you know, a lack of mental healthcare in this country.

That's the problem. They're all victims, usually pronounced along the lines of "Ahm uhh VICK-tim, Jeereh".
 
2012-12-14 04:03:33 PM  

coco ebert: There is no proper day for politics. Politics is a part of everything we do. If we were there or at the funeral, there is something to be said about not talking about something like that, but this is an internet posting board for chrissakes. Deal with it.


Link
 
2012-12-14 04:03:39 PM  
: mrshowrulesJerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012


Is there a source for this? If that is tru it's so brutal I can't even think,
 
2012-12-14 04:03:44 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: We should add the lives of the first responders to the toll -- the first people into that classroom full of dead kids are going to be psychologically farked for life.


That visual just made my brain go numb.

I quit.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:46 PM  
GODfarkINGDAMNITSOMUCH
.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:46 PM  
I was busy teaching all day and didn't see this until after school. I suddenly want to see my 5th graders now. =-(
 
2012-12-14 04:03:52 PM  
If the NTSB reacted as helplessly as many here do to news of another massacre, we'd have a lot more airline accidents.

Instead, they examine the situation, and issue updates on how to improve the system and fix the problem they observed. It's not perfect, there will be more accidents, but there will be fewer and less severe.

We want fewer and less severe massacres.

That's all we need to be doing here - don't react helplessly, understand the problem - moneyed interests having control over DC, preventing reform. Then fix that. Then, realize that criminals don't obey laws. They routinely flout them. So, we need to limit the number of firearms in circulation, by limiting their manufacture and sale. This limits the number of firearms criminals can illegally obtain.

The problem is not complicated. It will be a very difficult task to fix, but the necessary steps are not complicated. 

And we're not arguing for perfection. Perfect is the enemy of the good.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:53 PM  
I can't believe you NRA loving motherfarkers coming in here and bashing anyone speaking out against guns.

...today's not the day....my ass it's not. Today is precisely the day to start to change.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:58 PM  

cman: My previous message was asking for calm. Now this shall be my official message on what I believe could be done to prevent things like this.

Outlawing or restricting guns, IMO, would be attacking a symptom of a bigger problem. It has become very apparent that we do not spend enough money at a federal level on mental health resources. I believe that increasing federal funds for mental health access would in the long run significantly reduce these kinds of attacks. No one will ever be able to stop mass murder; it has always been in our history. But we can make an impact at prevention if we can find these folk early and give them access to be more mentally stable.

That is the cost of freedom right there; we pay more in taxes and we keep our weapons. Simple.


Too rational. I demand quick, knee-jerk reactions on the part of politicians who know absolutely nothing about the subject they wish to legislate.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:03 PM  

Ardilla: So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?

At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.

Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.


Anytime someone says "sensible" it tells me they have no farking clue about anything.

Say what the sensible guidelines and restrictions are. I already suggested one.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:04 PM  
Now there is a section of highway in Newton that is closed off....they say it's related to the shootings.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:10 PM  

chaoticcrash: The best thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.



I can't even begin to fathom the level of stupidity it takes to post something like that regarding a situation like this.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:34 PM  

Marine1: RockChalkH1N1: Dr. Drew, voice of reason

For real this time?


Always have been
 
2012-12-14 04:04:43 PM  

Lost Thought 00: skullkrusher: Karma Curmudgeon: calbert: I'm at a loss, and since I don't have any kids, I'm going to go the nearest school and start hugging as many kids as I can.

Why don't you have a seat over there.......

funny

Lost Thought 00: AlwaysRightBoy: /it's just so sad, how can you take out your anger at children

Don't rush to judgement. We don't have evidence that the children were not armed. It could have been just self defense

not

Hey, atleast some people are trying, instead of being all morose about it


Some people are trying and succeeding.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:43 PM  
I feel old, and tired today. F**k this shiat.
 
2012-12-14 04:04:45 PM  
Gun control and disarming the US population seems as unliklely as nuclear disarment..."If u have one, I want one!"
If so many are armed in the US why isnt there better security in schools? A few armed staff members, and tougher security seems like the more programatic solution (Noone could enter my school unless they had requested a ID pass beforehand). It's not as hard as implementing a freaking fence along the borders! News like this is just sickening, and knowing that there will be more coming next year is infuriating....
 
2012-12-14 04:05:03 PM  

Leeds: Does anyone have a link to Obama's press conference? I missed it live and am curious to see what he had to say.


http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/12/barack-obama-speech-on-connectic u t-school-shooting-turns-very-emotional-83137.html
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-12-14 04:05:07 PM  

bootman: Are we to the point yet where we can demand recommendations on policy changes from the NRA and their ilk on how to prevent insane folks from obtaining firearms? The issues surrounding mentally disturbed people and firearms is an existential issue for the NRA, are they just too stupid to realize it?


This catches their rhetoric in a Catch-22. If they admit that firearms should be kept from some people then they have opened a door and admitted that there should be limits. The NRA doesn't EVER admit limits to the 2nd amendment. Maybe someone can correct me, but they pretty much believe as a rule that people should be allowed ANY type of firearm and any limiting factor is wrong. It's part of the reason their rhetoric is so irritating.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:25 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: letrole: But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society

Or, you know, a lack of mental healthcare in this country.


I wrote about just that after the Aurora shootings.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:28 PM  
I have absolutely no idea how to solve for this farking problem.

And as the father of two beautiful little princess snowflakes...this scares the holy shiat out of me.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:44 PM  

USP .45: No you agree with me. Keep the bacterial nutjobs of all sizes off the sterile guns and food.


Ok, I do agree with you. I also agree there should be more strict policies on people attempting to by guns. Seriously! How we go about proving someone is fit to own a gun is not my responsibility, as I do not have the required learning nor expertise to make that call, but I'm sure someone does.

Simply put: Guns cannot be in the house if a felon lives there, regardless of the crime they committed. It's the law. This is going beyond personal responsibility of the weapons into the home, and who has access to them. Teenagers are sociopaths, anyway, so why give them access to guns?

I don't have the answers, but we're all seeing the same problem.
 
2012-12-14 04:05:56 PM  

brnt00: Someone posted to my FB that a kid was yelling:

"I just want Christmas....I don't want to die. I just want to have Christmas"

true or not that's one of the saddest farking things I've ever read. just awful.


Oh god, I just realized these kids most likely have presents sitting at home under their trees right now.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:12 PM  

Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?


How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:16 PM  
I keep hearing "a whole lotta crazy" by ac/dc
 
2012-12-14 04:06:24 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: chaoticcrash: The best thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.


I can't even begin to fathom the level of stupidity it takes to post something like that regarding a situation like this.


I think it's clear that guns for 5 year olds must be mandatory.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:33 PM  

Pincy: Until we stop with all the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "everyone for themselves" mentality we aren't going to do a damn thing about any of this.


So how exactly do you change the whole American psyche?
 
2012-12-14 04:06:34 PM  

Yogimus: Did he use a .88 Magnum?


88. 89. Whatever it takes.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:34 PM  

SharpieIncident: IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?

This. They make doors that are only locked from the outside. I don't want random arseholes wandering through my kid's school for ANY reason. This isn't Walmart.


My kids have them, but the front door is unlocked. I don't see how metal detectors would count.

Guy with guns walks in.

*BEEEP*BEEP*BEEP*

"Sir? can I ..."*BLAM*
 
2012-12-14 04:06:35 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: USP .45: No you agree with me. Keep the bacterial nutjobs of all sizes off the sterile guns and food.

Ok, I do agree with you. I also agree there should be more strict policies on people attempting to by guns. Seriously! How we go about proving someone is fit to own a gun is not my responsibility, as I do not have the required learning nor expertise to make that call, but I'm sure someone does.

Simply put: Guns cannot be in the house if a felon lives there, regardless of the crime they committed. It's the law. This is going beyond personal responsibility of the weapons into the home, and who has access to them. Teenagers are sociopaths, anyway, so why give them access to guns?

I don't have the answers, but we're all seeing the same problem.


It'd be cruel to send teenagers to Afghanistan without guns.
 
2012-12-14 04:06:38 PM  
As a fairly lapsed Catholic who only goes a few times a year, I think I'm going to pick my 3 year old up from daycare and go straight to tonight's Thursday Mass.

Yes, I know that's wrong in a lot of people's eyes, but I'm really hoping for some sort of prospective on this.
 
2012-12-14 04:07:08 PM  
which well-regulated militia did the shooter belong to?
 
2012-12-14 04:07:16 PM  
Dawn Hochsprung, principal
i2.cdn.turner.com
 
2012-12-14 04:07:24 PM  

Sterling Thunder: Having 4 kids this makes me very sad and very angry. I don't care about which side of gun control you fall on as there is likely no changing your mind. If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb, waste like this don't care or think they just act. Of course the cowards offed themselves or went and hid because consequences are for others. There is no punishment harsh enough.


^^^True dat.
 
2012-12-14 04:07:27 PM  

FinFangFark: Now there is a section of highway in Newton that is closed off....they say it's related to the shootings.


Probably to keep the droves of look-e-loos out.
 
2012-12-14 04:07:32 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: CBS is showing more interviews with kids. These parents are farked in the head.


I heard one of the kids on the radio and wondered the same thing. What the hell is wrong w/that kid's parents? Why would they let reporters talk to him? Get him home and hug the living hell out of him, don't make him re-live it.

Assholes.
 
2012-12-14 04:07:35 PM  

mjohnson71: tonight's Thursday Mass


Going back in time won't help much unless you can get to CT and stop this mad man
 
2012-12-14 04:07:39 PM  

Kit Fister: I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.


So you support doing everything we can to eradicate poverty?
 
2012-12-14 04:08:07 PM  

Red_Fox: I can't believe you NRA loving motherfarkers coming in here and bashing anyone speaking out against guns.

...today's not the day....my ass it's not. Today is precisely the day to start to change.


Ok, challenge accepted. Here is your chance. FIX IT. Go.
 
2012-12-14 04:08:30 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: I think it's clear that guns for 5 year olds must be mandatory.



AND tactical training. Second mass-shooting this week where the shooter wore a bullet-proof chest.

We have the loosest gun laws in the 1st world, and the highest homicide rate to show for it.
 
2012-12-14 04:08:54 PM  

Red_Fox: I can't believe you NRA loving motherfarkers coming in here and bashing anyone speaking out against guns.

...today's not the day....my ass it's not. Today is precisely the day to start to change.


Yes, today is the day for one-sided debate. What a tolerate liberal you are.
 
2012-12-14 04:09:00 PM  
 
2012-12-14 04:09:13 PM  

SharpieIncident: This sums up how I feel about this:
"This will be my only post today. We are shocked and horrified by the news coming out of Connecticut. When senseless violence takes the most innocent of lives, our grief is all the deeper.

Many will seek to turn their outrage to action. But now is not the time for politics. Let us instead reflect upon what was lost today, and first grieve together for the victims, many of whom were just children." ~George Takei via Facebook.

My rage will boil in a few minutes, impotent as it may be.


Well, that's a first: George is Wrong. Sorry, man.
 
2012-12-14 04:09:13 PM  
Kudos to the Fark mods for keeping this thread in check, cleaned up of stupid and making it completely readable!
 
2012-12-14 04:09:18 PM  

OnlyM3: What do they call trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?


Reaganomics.
 
2012-12-14 04:09:22 PM  
can we start blaming the shooters parents for not doing their jobs as parents yet?
 
2012-12-14 04:09:24 PM  

coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.


yes, please keep bringing race into an incident that had little to nothing to do with race.

/when you tire out that chicken, what will you move on to?
 
2012-12-14 04:09:24 PM  

Hand Banana: Oh god, I just realized these kids most likely have presents sitting at home under their trees right now.


DAMMIT! Yep, I'm tapping out. Done. Have a good flame war ya'll, I've reached my emotional limit.
 
2012-12-14 04:09:34 PM  

BronyMedic: CthulhuCalling:
you do realize that most cops never draw their sidearm except for annual qualifications and never take any advanced training? all CCWs that I know, including myself, shoot regularly and take many classes a year: tactical shooting, low light shooting, handgun, shotgun, rifle, home clearing, etc... well above what your average beat cop receives. I've put more rounds downrange in the last month that a lot of cops will in their career.

Do you know what the definition of anecdote is? Or what Dunning-Kruger is? Because that's what you're demonstrating here.

Your plinking means nothing. You are not trained to engage in an active shooter situation.


There's a difference between plinking and training. And actually, I have been trained to deal with an active shooter situation. Can you say the same of Joe Badge?

You are NOT law enforcement. You are NOT a tactical operator. Your CCW is for personal defense only, in the immediate danger to your life, or the life of someone around you. It is not for you to charge forward like Call of Medal of Duty Black Ops, and save the day.

I never said that I would.

Please, oh please tell me you're going to use that in court when you decide to play "The Decider", rush in, and shoot the wrong person, or cap two people along with the shooter.

Because I would LOVE to see a prosecuting DA tear you to shreads on the stand when you say you're more "qualified" to pull the trigger than "a beat cop", and they point out just what kind of quarterly qualifications a COLEA-accredited department has to put their officers through.


I certainly couldn't do any worse than 2 COLEA-accredited NYPD cops who shot 9 bystanders. Seeing how the local PD out here shoots, I'll put my quals up agains theirs every. farking. day. I carry a gun, I take that responsibility seriously. That means I train. A lot.
 
2012-12-14 04:09:47 PM  

Red_Fox: So how exactly do you change the whole American psyche?


It's not the American psyche, it's just a subset of people and the thing is to stop paying them any attention or giving their demands any consideration.
 
2012-12-14 04:10:05 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: stu1-1: Cagey B: I would be more down with the "this isn't the time for politics" crowd if we didn't systematically ignore some of the root causes for this stuff every time it happens.

You're talking about batshait crazy people, right?
How are you going to prevent that?

Add more mental institutions. Make psychiatric care free.


That's not the snarky response I expected.
+10
 
2012-12-14 04:10:15 PM  
For one of the more bizarre rationalizations I've seen regarding the false ID earlier: Someone on Fox News suggested maybe the shooter was maybe carrying his brother's ID on him "so he could get away."

News people really don't perform well without a script.
 
2012-12-14 04:10:24 PM  

Hand Banana: brnt00: Someone posted to my FB that a kid was yelling:

"I just want Christmas....I don't want to die. I just want to have Christmas"

true or not that's one of the saddest farking things I've ever read. just awful.

Oh god, I just realized these kids most likely have presents sitting at home under their trees right now.


Don't most parents put the presents out on Christmas Eve?
 
2012-12-14 04:10:26 PM  

USP .45: no I was saying white people are latenty racist regarding another issue


I was there. Weaseling out of it makes you look weak. You said Fark was anti-White because it would only report and highlight white male mass murderers or wanna-be's. You were proved wrong with many linked threads. You should probably acknowledge you were wrong if you want any credibility. Stand for something and take your lumps.
 
2012-12-14 04:10:43 PM  

netweavr: *cough*


Quite likely he was tortured to death after. Rightly so.
 
2012-12-14 04:10:47 PM  
Confirmed that the gunman killed himself. These @sssholes always do it in the wrong order.
 
2012-12-14 04:10:56 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: Dawn Hochsprung, principal
[i2.cdn.turner.com image 250x250]


She really reminds me of my 2nd grade teacher. God, I somehow feel worse now.
 
2012-12-14 04:11:06 PM  

bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster


Aw shiat. Here we go :(
 
2012-12-14 04:11:18 PM  

special20: OnlyM3: What do they call trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?

Reaganomics.


ZING!
 
2012-12-14 04:11:39 PM  
kumanoki:
As a father and husband and son of a teacher, I am deeply upset and my heart goes out to everyone in Connecticut today who is experiencing the soul-crushing loss this tragedy has caused.

There are going to be empty beds tonight, Farkers. Empty little beds. Presents under trees that will never be opened. God. God damn, that... that's just heartbreaking.


Just keep some perspective. As bad as this is, it happens every day somewhere in the world. People in Congo or Syria or don't love their kids less, but they are losing them to horrific violence right now. It doesn't mean you should care less about these victims, just think about that pain happening somewhere else tomorrow.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-14 04:11:44 PM  
t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-14 04:11:50 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?

How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.


Sure, speculation sounds like it will lead to more effective prevention than limiting access to guns would.

/no. Not really.
 
2012-12-14 04:11:57 PM  

turtleking: can we start blaming the shooters parents for not doing their jobs as parents yet?


You can blame em all ya want now, they are dead. Knock yerself out kiddo.

WhyteRaven74: Red_Fox: So how exactly do you change the whole American psyche?

It's not the American psyche, it's just a subset of people and the thing is to stop paying them any attention or giving their demands any consideration.


So ignore them and hope they go away? Personally I am an advocate of prozak in the water supplies.
 
2012-12-14 04:12:03 PM  

Sterling Thunder: If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb,


The Columbine guys tried to make bombs and failed miserably, yet with their guns...
 
2012-12-14 04:12:05 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Pssst...to any young kids reading Fark today in elementary school. First of all, you shouldn't be on this site, it's nasty. But second of all, when you go home tonight, you can pretty much write your own farking check. Have your folks been hemming and hawing about that puppy or bicycle or Xbox you really want for Christmas? Now's your chance. Just put on those big, wet anime eyes, and say something cute like, "I wuv you mommy," or "Can we have pasketti for dinner," and then drop a little hint about great it would be to have a bike or puppy or Xbox, and how happy it would make you and it sure would be a shame if Something Bad happened to you before you got a chance to enjoy it. Also, you got a pretty good shot at ice cream for dessert tonight.


This is pretty much what I plan on doing tonight with my kids. My husband and 9-yr-old daughter are playing Flames of War at the local gaming shop tonight. I'll make sure he takes her for pizza before and ice cream afterward. I'll be doing the same at home with our 3-yr-old son--watching back-to-back episodes of "Spongebob" and eating popcorn until we explode. As others have said, I'll hug them tigher and shower them with kisses and tell them how much I love them 47 times before they go to bed. Because I can. And my heart aches for those who can't tonight.
 
2012-12-14 04:12:07 PM  

netweavr: *cough*


*cough*imaginehowmuchdeepertheslasheswouldhavebeenfrombullets*cough*
 
2012-12-14 04:12:14 PM  

IRQ12: : mrshowrulesJerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012


Is there a source for this? If that is tru it's so brutal I can't even think,


If

Sterling Thunder: Having 4 kids this makes me very sad and very angry. I don't care about which side of gun control you fall on as there is likely no changing your mind. If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb, waste like this don't care or think they just act. Of course the cowards offed themselves or went and hid because consequences are for others. There is no punishment harsh enough.


You start by saying you don't care which side you are on but then proceed to give a tired pro-gun argument.

How long does it take to build a bomb big enough to kill this many people? How long does it take a mentally person to build a device like this. I had a close friend who has schizophrenia. When he was losing his faculties he found even the most mundane tasks complicated. Building a bomb for him would be impossible.
 
2012-12-14 04:12:16 PM  
Oh man. Not again.

Little kids??? God, that's heart breaking.

No one should ever have to bury their child.

/sniff
 
2012-12-14 04:12:27 PM  
I just heard FOX has some douche blaming video games, of course FOX, go after everything but the crazy!
 
2012-12-14 04:12:42 PM  

Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(


Simply put, I was right, he was a yahoo gun nut, not a responsible owner. I called that shiat a mile away a few hours ago.

Totally done now.
 
2012-12-14 04:12:46 PM  
I sit here and keep mindlessly refreshing this thread, hoping for....I'm not sure. It doesn't really matter how the news develops from here. Those kids are dead and it's never going to make sense. And we're never going to get justice. And nothing in this stupid debate is ever going to change.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:01 PM  

netweavr: *cough*


And how many died?
 
2012-12-14 04:13:15 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Kit Fister: I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.

So you support doing everything we can to eradicate poverty?


yes? Have you seen the size of our defense budget? We could seriously re-prioritize spending in this country.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:17 PM  
There is never going to be a convenient time to talk about the issues surrounding mass shootings. Toughen up and have the f*cking conversation anyway. This sh*t will not go away unless we have the goddamn conversation.

Don't know if someone else has posted this yet, so I'll just leave this here:

Eleven facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States. Link
 
2012-12-14 04:13:19 PM  

brnt00: Someone posted to my FB that a kid was yelling:

"I just want Christmas....I don't want to die. I just want to have Christmas"

true or not that's one of the saddest farking things I've ever read. just awful.


Holy shiat.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:20 PM  
My condolences to anyone affected by this horrendous tragedy.
As people with intelligent minds, let's grow up. There is no need for any of this shiat.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:22 PM  

ChipNASA: THIS ISN'T ABOUT *GUNS*!


[www.thebuzzmedia.com image 500x202]

/he could have used his bare hands.


stay classy
 
2012-12-14 04:13:24 PM  
 
2012-12-14 04:13:33 PM  
I remember hearing people rail against violence in the movies and on TV. "Kids shouldn't see this," they said. "They might become violent." Others thought they were nuts.

I remember hearing people rail against violence in video games. "Kids shouldn't have these," they said. "It'll make them insensitive to death." Others thought they were nuts.

I remember hearing people say, "Kids who misbehave should be spanked. They need to learn there are consequences to their actions." Others thought they were nuts and put their kids in "time out."

Then something like this happens and all fingers point to the guns.

We had guns before the bloody movies and graphic television shows.
We had guns back when "video game" meant "Pong."
We had guns back when teachers routinely brought out the paddles to discipline students.
We had guns back when songs about killing others would never have been pressed into records.

What we didn't have before all of this was all these crazy shootings.

For most kids, watching violent movies or television will do nothing.
For most kids, listening to music that suggests violent actions will do nothing.
For most kids, playing violent video games will do nothing.

But shove enough violence into a mind that's wired just a little bit differently......

/those whiney goody-two-shoes cronies might have been right.
//Don't get me wrong. I still think there needs to be a psych exam for anyone who buys anything north of a shotgun. But there are too many guns out there to put that genie back in the bottle.
///I also think teachers should be allowed to carry.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:40 PM  
mayIFark: Fine, this is too early to discuss gun control (I prefer an outright ban on all guns of all kind, starting right now, but anyway) because it is just happening and now is not the time.

Aurora happened a while ago, let's talk how we would have prevented that.
Gabby Gifford got shot over a year ago, let's talk how we could prevented that.
Let's talk why those Sikhs died.
Let's talk Virginia tech.
Let's talk Nadal's army shooting.
Let's talk the mall shootings this Tuesday.

What the fark? How much farking more blood you want?

JungleBoogie: Due to the way our political system has metastasized, moneyed interests have outsized influence on politicians, and are able to block reform. Ref: the arms industry and the financial industry.

We currently have government of the highest bidder, by the highest bidder, for the highest bidder. That must be changed first.

Then, we must limit the number of firearms in circulation. Simple gun laws don't work as criminals don't care, they disobey the laws routinely. So there must be fewer firearms in circulation so they can illegally obtain fewer firearms.

And, it's not going to be perfect, but the best thing we can do is to reduce the frequency and severity of massacres. This goal is well within our grasp. If we choose to take the necessary actions.

Kit Fister: on those particular points, I will fight you to my last breath. I will not give up my rights for the illusion of safety. I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.



Bring it. Your side has been winning for a long time, and all we have are massacres to show for it. It's time for new ideas as your ideas have failed to stop the bloodbaths. 

It's time to break control that moneyed interests have over government. It's time to stop "Government of the highest bidder, by the highest bidder, for the highest bidder." And return it to "Government of the people, by the people, for the people." It's time to break the stranglehold the arms industry has over the government.

It's time to limit the manufacture and sale of firearms. It's time to get rid of willful self-delusion peddled by emotional, unreasoning gun advocates.  Pro-gun groups have made one good point - gun laws aren't observed by criminals. True enough. So there need to be fewer guns in society that criminals can get.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:45 PM  

nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.



nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.


nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.



nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.
 

Thank you. This would include a President with two school-aged daughters. As a parent with one in Kindergarten, I can totally see why he'd be overcome.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:48 PM  

Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(



223 Bushmaster firing at a range.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:48 PM  

eddievercetti: I just heard FOX has some douche blaming video games, of course FOX, go after everything but the crazy!


That's Fox's M.O. They blame something that will offend none of their core viewership but at the same time will let them rhetoric up the angry.
 
2012-12-14 04:13:56 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Kit Fister: I will fight for proper means to deal with the precipitating causes.

So you support doing everything we can to eradicate poverty?


Yes, and work on mental health problems.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:02 PM  

coco ebert: Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.


Hmmm, and the case for the NRA giving aid and comfort to terrorists builds.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:05 PM  

bikerbob59: dennysgod: Westboro Baptist church blaming this on Maine, Maryland, and Washington legalizing same-sex marriages last month in 3...2...1...


/you know those f*ckers will

God, I never thought about them until now. They will do something, I'm sure.



You know how they'll play it.  State that they'll picket the funerals of the murdered children, just as they planned to do after the shooting at an Amish school several years back.  The only thing that stopped them that time was an offer of air time from a radio station in exchange for them refraining from picketing. 
 
2012-12-14 04:14:06 PM  

orclover: So ignore them and hope they go away? Personally I am an advocate of prozak in the water supplies.


Just tell them we want a functioning society and we'll have one with or without their support.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:14 PM  

Cybernetic: brnt00: Someone posted to my FB that a kid was yelling:

"I just want Christmas....I don't want to die. I just want to have Christmas"

true or not that's one of the saddest farking things I've ever read. just awful.

Holy shiat.


Probably not true but that's farking awful
 
2012-12-14 04:14:16 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?

How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.


It's not like we don't KNOW what causes these sorts of thing: Child abuse, chemical imbalances, repressed rage, conditioned agression, sociopathy, blah blah blah. Mitigating those qualities can take decades and require unacceptable restrictions on things like child bearing and parenting. The "nanny state" if you will. Assuming we could even agree what the best means of mitigation would be.

So how do we mitigate this kind of violence in the short term?

There is no one magic bullet (pardon the expression) to solve this problem so it's ridiculous to discount individual options just because it doens't "fix" the problem by itself.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:29 PM  

eddievercetti: I just heard FOX has some douche blaming video games, of course FOX, go after everything but the crazy!


Videogames are just the new version of 'rock and roll'. Something popular to blame while doing jacksquat about the real reasons behind the murder.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:37 PM  
Is Omarion OK?
 
2012-12-14 04:14:40 PM  

Kome: There is never going to be a convenient time to talk about the issues surrounding mass shootings. Toughen up and have the f*cking conversation anyway. This sh*t will not go away unless we have the goddamn conversation.

Don't know if someone else has posted this yet, so I'll just leave this here:

Eleven facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States. Link


People on Fark discussing this isn't changing shiat. Go write a Congressman and talk to him. No one on Fark can help you.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:48 PM  

USP .45: Ardilla: So, you're cool with this sort of thing happening over and over again, then?

At minimum, we need to have a national discussion about gun control and, yes, about mental health. But it's long past time for us to enact some sensible guidelines and restrictions.

Wringing our hands yet doing nothing, yet again, is not acceptable.

Anytime someone says "sensible" it tells me they have no farking clue about anything.

Say what the sensible guidelines and restrictions are. I already suggested one.


Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.
 
2012-12-14 04:14:56 PM  

Bontesla: /no. Not really.


Hey, I admitted that I was temporarily nuts. We need to keep ignoring crazy people and continue to focus on guns. The fact that is hasn't worked yet is just proof that it will.
 
2012-12-14 04:15:18 PM  
I just spoke to my 2 year old grand-daughter and I'll tell you the tears started flowing. Is it wrong for a 47 year old man to cry like a baby because I just couldn't help myself after hearing her voice. And we're over a thousand miles from that school. Such a senseless act and those saying we don't need some sort of gun control are clearly out of their farking minds.
 
2012-12-14 04:15:21 PM  

TheNewJesus: I would like to buy a round for everyone.

Also, cmon, if this wasn't holiday season and everyone wasn't goofing off at work these threads would be dismal and not so busy...

FREE DIRNKS


Yeah - I could f**king use one about now.
 
2012-12-14 04:15:28 PM  
From Yahoo and I know some shootings are missing

April 2 - A gunman kills seven people and wounds three in a shooting rampage at a Christian college in Oakland.
July 20 - A masked gunman kills 12 people and wounds 58 when he opens fire on moviegoers at a showing of the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" in Aurora, a suburb of Denver, Colorado.
August 5 - A gunman kills six people during Sunday services at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, before he is shot dead by a police officer.
August 24 - Two people are killed and eight wounded in a shooting outside the landmark Empire State Building in New York City at the height of the tourist season.
September 27 - A disgruntled former employee kills five people and takes his own life in a shooting rampage at a Minneapolis sign company from which he had been fired.
October 21 - Three people are killed in a Milwaukee area spa including the estranged wife of the suspected gunman, who then killed himself.
December 14 - A shooter opens fire at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, killing several people including children.
 
2012-12-14 04:15:29 PM  
Kome

From your link

"As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'""
 
2012-12-14 04:15:37 PM  

12349876: Sterling Thunder: If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb,

The Columbine guys tried to make bombs and failed miserably, yet with their guns...



My answer to this is always "They COULD have built bombs, and yet for some reason these @ssholes always choose to go with guns instead. I wonder why...."
 
2012-12-14 04:15:44 PM  

Warthog: I sit here and keep mindlessly refreshing this thread, hoping for....I'm not sure. It doesn't really matter how the news develops from here. Those kids are dead and it's never going to make sense. And we're never going to get justice. And nothing in this stupid debate is ever going to change.


I'm right here with you.

/this
 
2012-12-14 04:15:46 PM  

eddievercetti: With this and what happened in China, is there nothing to help the mentally unstable at all?


They used to be killed or locked away in asylums. Once the left demanded that they be reintegrated into the population, this kind of thing started becoming more common.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:00 PM  
Chaotic situation, many dead, awful news for America. Getting accurate reports is difficult amid the chaos and suffering, and we have to think of the families who have lost loved ones. Officials who are telling us what is going on still aren't sure of the motives or the actors in this situation, nor even the body count at this point.

So has John McCain made this a scandal yet?
 
2012-12-14 04:16:00 PM  

mjohnson71: netweavr: *cough*

And how many died?


Dunno, it doesn't say. It implies 4 seriously injured but doesn't give the number of fatalities. I imagine it would be more if the psycho had a gun if that's the implication.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:05 PM  
ihopOVERpancakes:
I like it. My moment (or one of them) was probably learning how to bake with my mom when I was about 7. I had the brilliant idea of turning the mixer on full speed when nothing but flour and sugar was in the bowl... spent a good ten minutes cleaning up the mess.

I wish I'd first done that when I was only 7... instead of, you know, my mid-20's. Cringe.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:21 PM  

netweavr: *cough*


Wow that's horrible... but hey, no deaths. Seems like it *is* harder to mass-murder without access to guns.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:23 PM  
[from the second thread]

IlGreven: COMALite J: I went into much more detail on this in the thread on the Chardon, OH High School shooting on February 28, 2012. Please see the follow-up posts as well.

...all that post tells me is that you never even watched Bowling for Columbine.


I′ve not only watched it, I′ve posted extensively on it on FARK and elsewhere, including on videos uploaded under Michael Moore′s very own official ‶mmflint" YouTube channel (he had the incredible gall to upload his Charlton Heston interview video [that formed the climax of B4C] just ‶48-hours [sic] after [Charlton Heston] was pronounced dead..."!).

I′ve very thoroughly ripped that movie to quivering, bleeding shreds. Comments by me doing so (under the handle ‶COMALiteJ" since at the time I set up my YouTube account, it hadn′t been bought out by Google yet, and still didn′t allow spaces nor any other punctuation such as periods or hyphens or even underscores in user names) are on not only that mmflint-uploaded video, but also other videos uploading the entire movie in twelve parts (back when YouTube imposed a ten-minute length limit on most users) by ZOYA09 aka TriPhazer (who subsequently Blocked me because I kept showing how nude his Emperor Moore was) and others, in which I point out exact time points to freeze-frame at to see his shenanigans with your own eyeballs, right off the video itself.

Here are a couple of example of people in this very [second] thread (besides you) taken in by his shenanigans:

jigger: Franko: If gun laws won't prevent these kinds of things from happening, and gun ownership doesn't cause these kinds of things, then I have to ask: is american society just violent by nature?

Have you watched Bowling for Columbine? That's the basic premise of the movie. Most people don't get that.

Actually, human nature is violent, but in America it tends to be pent up and released in unpredictable ways.


No, that′s not quite correct. Moore did try to revise his movie after the wake-up call that I alluded to earlier (more on that later) to give it some deeper meaning, but it was originally, by his own admission, just about gun violence, and intended to be an anti-NRA and anti-Heston screed.

As part of its revamping, he added the bit towards the end about the ‶Culture of Fear," and used technically true but thrice-cooked statistics comparing the USA with a selected handful of other nations (that selecting itself constituting a fourth ‵cooking" method for the statistics) to make it look like the USA was far and away worse than other nations when it came to gun deaths. Yes, we are worse, but by nowhere near as much as Moore′s quad-cooked statistics made us appear, and his whole Culture of Fear premise required that we be vastly worse than we actually are. Without such an overwhelming disparity between our gun deaths and those of other nations, there′s not even a phenomenon that needs an explanation, let alone that one!

Here′s another example:

Dimensio: Cyberluddite: WTF is wrong with people??

And if Charleton Heston were still around, I'll bet he would be booking a flight to CT right now to hold an NRA rally there in the next week or two, as he did in Colorado right after Columbine.

Are you unaware that the only meeting held by the National Rifle Association in Colorado following the shooting in Columbine was one mandated by law and that had been arranged several months in advance, or are you dishonestly ignoring this fact?


Actually, Dimensio got one thing wrong: it′d been planned years in advance, not just months. The NRA is a very sizable non-profit corporation, and as such, it must hold an Annual Shareholder′s Meeting. The members are shareholders, and by law the Board of Directors must account to them in person each and every year on how they′re spending the funds from dues and donations. This is true of all such organizations. Most combine other events to be held at the same location and week or weekend to entice more of their members to come and attend the meeting, which is the real purpose. The combination of the required Shareholder′s Meeting with the additional enticements is called a ‶Convention."

In the case of the NRA, the conventions (note: not ‶rallies" ― the KKK is infamous for holding rallies, so Moore used that term to subtly imply racism and even collaboration with the KKK on the part of Heston and the NRA and set the psychological stage for his subsequent ludicrously 180° diametrically opposite from the truth ‶A Brief History of America" cartoon in the movie that tried to conflate the two) include, in addition to the legally required Shareholder′s Meeting, such things as gun safety and other seminars, a gun expo (open to the general public ― Moore even showed a billboard of this in his Denver footage, showing the dates ― do you honestly think that the NRA could possibly have put something like that together, including designing and installing a billboard, and had it up long enough in advance to bring traffic to the Expo, and do all of that in the just ten days [by Moore′s own statement right around that very timepoint!] since Columbine happened until the Convention itself, and that they did all of this just to gloat and rub the people of Denver′s noses in the tragedy, or even to do media ‶damage control" in the wake of the tragedy?), various festivities, etc.

Just months ago, we had the RNC and DNC. To the general public, those were just to officially nominate the Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates, but that was just part of it. They also had to have their own Delegate′s Meetings (analogous to Shareholder′s Meetings), where the delegates voted on key rules and party platform changes, among other things. Both the RNC and DNC bosses pulled some serious shenanigans (which I′ve posted on at length before), the RNC far more seriously. But I digress....

Consider this: Columbine High School is not in Denver, but in Littleton! Littleton is a separate town, perhaps part of greater Denver, but a substantial commute away. If Heston and/or the NRA really wanted to gloat and/or do damage control in the wake of such a tragedy, they′d′ve done it in Littleton, not Denver! I mean, like, y′know, duh!!

Why did the NRA choose Denver? Because the NRA is big, and for logistics reasons has to hold its conventions in big cities. But why Denver? Because then-Mayor Wellington Webb all but got down on his knees and begged them to come to Denver! A major convention like that is a big boost to the local tourism-related economy, and thus the overall economy! All of the big tourism- and convention center-equipped cities bid very competitively to be chosen to host such conventions! They do all in their power to persuade the organizations such as the NRA (and RNC and DNC and even the Barbershop Harmony Society and such) to pick them! The NRA picks a different city for each year, and they do them years in advance.

There are many contracts that have to be negotiated and signed, for travel agencies, lodging, venues, shuttles and other in-city transportation, restaurants for special events, etc. etc. etc. Breaking such contracts is not done lightly.

So, after this tragedy, with Mayor Webb changing his tune and begging the NRA not to come, why did they come anyway? Why ignore those emotional pleas? Because even setting aside all those contracts, the law said that they had to hold at least the Shareholder′s Meeting. The law also stipulates that they cannot cancel it outright for any reason. Nor can they change its time nor location without giving at least ten days′ advance written notice to all several hundred thousand of their members! Remember when Columbine happened relative to the NRA Convention? Moore said it himself: ten days! Even if they could somehow have canceled all those contracts and established a new venue and re-set up the meeting as quickly as possible after having heard of the tragedy, and even if they had a Star Trek transporter to beam themselves to the places needed to do all of this and beam the written notifications to their members, there still wouldn′t′ve been enough time! They could not cancel nor change the time nor place of that meeting! Not without breaking the law, and you wouldn′t want to violate FARK Terms of Use by promoting an illegal action, now, would you?

Funny how Moore neglected to mention any of that B4C, and instead went out of his way to make it look like Heston and the NRA just rushed to Denver to gloat and/or do damage control in the face of the tragedy, huh?

Okay, so why not at least cancel the optional stuff? The stuff added onto the Shareholder′s Meeting to form the overall Convention? The seminars? The festivities? The gun expo? Well, guess what? They did!! And guess what? Charlton Heston talked about that in the very speech that Moore showed in the movie! It was in the parts that Moore cut out of the speech (as he did everything that showed Heston or the NRA in a remotely positive light, leaving only out-of-context snippets that put concepts into his mouth that he never said ― you don′t have to take my word for this: Moore used to have a full transcript of the speech on his own website, and you can still find it via the Internet Wayback Machine!).

All of this is just one example of the numerous shenanigans Moore pulled in that movie. And the really sad thing is that he had a golden opportunity to do the right thing instead. He himself has since said on video that he agrees that the SSRI hypothesis is the most likely explanation, that fits all of the known observations including timing and demographics.

If today′s tragedy involves SSRIs or SNRIs or some such as well as it almost certainly does (I would be extremely surprised if that turns out to not be the case, though it could still be hypermania caused by a brain tumor, blow to the head, etc. as was the case with most known such incidents prior to the introduction of SSRIs), then this would bring the body count of incidents we know about that would almost certainly have been prevented had Moore done the right thing, to nearly three digits.

And today, 1½ dozen of them were children.

Good job, Michael Moore.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:26 PM  

Hand Banana: Oh god, I just realized these kids most likely have presents sitting at home under their trees right now.


That comment is like taking the ending of Grave of the Fireflies and adding a dying puppy to it.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:26 PM  
I'm supposed to go make people laugh tonight, and I'm trying not to cry.

/my heart goes out to everyone
 
2012-12-14 04:16:29 PM  

letrole: The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitmore, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes


Ah yes. If only things were they way they were 40 years ago.

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2012-12-14 04:16:32 PM  

12349876: Sterling Thunder: If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb,

The Columbine guys tried to make bombs and failed miserably, yet with their guns...


Richard Reid tried to make a bomb to blow up a plane in flight and failed miserably. He wasn't successful, yet now every time we fly we all have to take off our shoes to go through security.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:40 PM  
What I find hard to believe is that firearms have existed for quite some time yet this sort of thing did not happen nowhere near as often as it does now. Therefore I can't rationally accuse the firearms for what is happening and must search for other causes.

Sorry gun haters, but it doesn't make sense. You're not addressing the underlying problem, you're just trying to keep it from manifesting.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:42 PM  
Ardilla

As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'"
 
2012-12-14 04:16:50 PM  

dwrash: I could also run around with a machete and a compound bow and do just as much damage.


No, you really couldn't.

Guns are a point and click lethal device, designed to deliver high velocity projectiles accurately from a distance. You certainly could do damage with an arrow or machete. Or car for that matter. But a firearm is a device that is the peak of lethal evolution. It is the most effective, inexpensive man-portable killing device that humanity has today.

That is why combat soldiers go into battle with firearms, and not bows and arrows, or machetes.
 
2012-12-14 04:16:53 PM  

Ardilla: Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.


Only if we can do the same for abortions and posting to the Huffington Post.
 
2012-12-14 04:17:04 PM  

mjohnson71: As a fairly lapsed Catholic who only goes a few times a year, I think I'm going to pick my 3 year old up from daycare and go straight to tonight's Thursday Mass.

Yes, I know that's wrong in a lot of people's eyes, but I'm really hoping for some sort of prospective on this.


Gold?

img577.imageshack.us

I'll assume some bizarre autocorrect.

As a lapsed Catholic, you're better than this practicing one. I still won't go to Thursday mass because my father made us go to mass on Thanksgiving when we were growing up, and I pointed out it was bullshiat because Thanksgiving is a US holiday. Holy Thursday? Sure. The other 51 Thursdays? I have some bizarre aversion to them.

I'll be there on Sunday, as always. Curious to see what the priest has to say about it.
 
2012-12-14 04:17:05 PM  
in a month, this will be forgotten.
 
2012-12-14 04:17:10 PM  
Can people not conceive of the idea that the framers of the Constitution may not have been superhuman, all-knowing and eternally wise people. In the words of Oliver Cromwell: I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.
 
2012-12-14 04:17:26 PM  
Don't be mentally ill in Arizona. Care for the SMI in Arizona was so bad, a court-appointed monitor was created. One of the things the Governor managed to have canceled during budget cuts was the monitor.
I have no idea whether the office was reinstated but if it was it isn't doing its job.
 
2012-12-14 04:17:33 PM  

jst3p: SharpieIncident: IronTom: How much could it cost to put walk-through metal detectors and automatic doors in each school? And to close up all entrances except one. A trillion?

This. They make doors that are only locked from the outside. I don't want random arseholes wandering through my kid's school for ANY reason. This isn't Walmart.

My kids have them, but the front door is unlocked. I don't see how metal detectors would count.

Guy with guns walks in.

*BEEEP*BEEP*BEEP*

"Sir? can I ..."*BLAM*


The portcullis goes down, or does not come up. Or some other physical barrier blocks him, preferably automatically, or a cop is always stationed there, with deterrent means.

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-14 04:17:55 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: My answer to this is always "They COULD have built bombs, and yet for some reason these @ssholes always choose to go with guns instead. I wonder why...."


They did build bombs, they just sucked. Had the bombs worked, Columbine would have eclipse the Bath massacre.
 
2012-12-14 04:18:02 PM  

Somacandra: USP .45: no I was saying white people are latenty racist regarding another issue

I was there. Weaseling out of it makes you look weak. You said Fark was anti-White because it would only report and highlight white male mass murderers or wanna-be's. You were proved wrong with many linked threads. You should probably acknowledge you were wrong if you want any credibility. Stand for something and take your lumps.


No I said the site, and media in general is more apt to sensationalize any form of white shooting especially when there are nice key words like "assault rifle" involved, whereas there is disproportionately less emphasis on gang shootings, because in my view the media views the urban population as intellectually inferior and incapable or disinterested in reflecting on such reports. It's a form of latent racism. "Proved wrong," by smaller threads that never reached national attention. So I forward a pretty reasonable opinion and get called a white supremacist/racist because for whatever reason you have an interest in defending the media -- the same media interviewing children and giving out incorrect Facebook information.
 
2012-12-14 04:18:11 PM  
UGH no fox. We do not need Rudy Giuliani.
 
2012-12-14 04:18:27 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(

Simply put, I was right, he was a yahoo gun nut, not a responsible owner. I called that shiat a mile away a few hours ago.

Totally done now.


There are a lot of responsible gun owners that own AR-15's. Just sayin'
 
2012-12-14 04:18:32 PM  

SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.


Sadly, it will. I hope we do remember but we won't.
 
2012-12-14 04:18:41 PM  

Kit Fister: Yes, and work on mental health problems.


Then you have little need to worry about guns
 
2012-12-14 04:19:03 PM  

AugustWest: Ah yes. If only things were they way they were 40 years ago.


You should probably try reading his account name before you bother responding again...
 
2012-12-14 04:19:27 PM  

SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.


I'd hate to agree with you, but that's the cruel reality. I wish the people could just march in a crowd to D.C. and demand they do something. Doesn't matter if it's control or allowing more access. Just farking try something.
 
2012-12-14 04:19:28 PM  
OMFG I take a day to unplug and get shiat done and look what happens!!!1!11!

Fark! This is the first thing I see when I log back on. Holy. Shiat.

Look, future assholes: Kill YOURSELVES. That's it. Only you. The kids are OFF LIMITS.

/hugs kids
//is a little deader inside than 5 minutes ago
 
2012-12-14 04:19:28 PM  

Virtue: Ardilla

As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'"


So what you're saying is, we're so crazy here that even with our current laws we're worse than a country with no regulation. Were you trying to make the point that we need harsher gun control laws?
 
2012-12-14 04:19:43 PM  

lacydog: netweavr: *cough*

Wow that's horrible... but hey, no deaths. Seems like it *is* harder to mass-murder without access to guns.


Where do you see no deaths?
 
2012-12-14 04:19:45 PM  

Ardilla:
Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.


I don't think it needs to be that...complex. If someone says something about killing the president, people wouldn't hesitate to report that kind of thing to the secret service. That's usually how assasination attempts are thwarted, someone reports that someone has been saying things that are worrisome.

But if someone talks about being so pissed off about something they want to "put a bullet in someone's head", we tend to shrug it off as them just venting.

Why is that, I wonder? These sorts of things don't happen in a vaccum. There are always signs that we, as a whole, tend to condition ourselves to ignore or disregard. Why is that?
 
2012-12-14 04:19:48 PM  
What's done is done, and we cannot bring back the 27 people, including the 18 kids, no matter how much all of us want to do so.

All we can do now is go forward. Considering the amount of tragedy involving guns that 2012 has thrust upon the victims left in its wake, gun control (whether you are for or against it) is a discussion that needs to happen at some point, as we are losing too many lives, too many people to guns, which in the hands of those who choose to do harm is a dangerous and deadly weapon.

Perhaps there should be more stringent laws regarding how these weapons are acquired. I am not saying ban all guns nor am I saying to deny the 2nd Amendment freedom to anyone, I am just saying that there should be tighter protocols regarding getting one (for example, for gun stores to offer and require you to take an in-house course about proper firearms usage, handling, and storage as well as extending the waiting period and doing a full background check - fingerprints, blood, and all in all 50 states).

If you fail the course or the instructor notices that you are just a little off or suspects a mental illness, no gun for you. If you get flagged due to the physical evidence, no gun for you.

Perhaps my suggestion is too near-sighted given the recent tragedies, but all of us need to do something. When bad people start killing innocent children and we as parents, as the global village, cannot protect them, that is where we must draw the line. That is where we must say that the bloodshed will stop here, and that change must begin.

After 9/11 and subsequent terroristic attempts involving airplanes, airport security tightened up completely. While there have been issues, they chose to change and are choosing not to go back to the old ways.

Now it is time for the gun culture in North America (yes, Canada and Mexico, you too) to change as well.

Today, however, we remember the victims and offer our support to the survivors.

// One World.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:00 PM  
I wanted to see Obama's speech on this so I You Tubed it. Holyshiat, Obama gives alot of speeches like this. That's farked up.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:10 PM  
You can see how they might have gotten the two brothers mixed up. Someone says "it was so-and-so's son who did it" and then they say, "You mean Ryan?" and it gets out from there.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:15 PM  

Ardilla: Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.



And if we instituted those kinds of restrictions, the NRA's coveted "responsible, law abiding gun owners" could still get their guns. They would just have to jump through a few more hoops to get them in order to ENSURE that they would be "responsible, law abiding gun owners." Gun rights activists should be IN FAVOR of stricter checks before purchasing firearms because it lessens the risk that bad people can get their hands on guns -- those are the people that make all gun owners look bad.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:17 PM  
Sad day for everybody. Unlike many who've been posting, I'm going to refrain from hyperbole and hysterical condemnations, and instead lament the fact that whenever a tragedy happens, be it drug or gang violence, terrorism, attempted terrorism, or a mass shooting, our Weeners as Americans is to start putting our rights on the chopping block.

If your main focus is "how could we have stopped this?" and not "how can we fix [whatever social ill as at the root of aforementioned event]?" then eventually we'll have no rights, and we won't be all that safer, because there's really no way of preventing all tragedies.

It's easy to go after everyone's rights because someone took advantage of them in order to do something evil. That goes for all rights, not just the 2nd Amendment. Not so easy to figure out why people do the things they do, why they're broken, and how to fix them.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:17 PM  

USP .45: because in my view the media views the urban population as intellectually inferior and incapable or disinterested in reflecting on such reports. It's a form of latent racism.


You're not helping your case here.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:25 PM  
Just out of curiosity, what would happen with the never-ending gun control debate if a madman with an assault rifle ever went nuts at an NRA meeting?
 
2012-12-14 04:20:29 PM  

lacydog: netweavr: *cough*

Wow that's horrible... but hey, no deaths. Seems like it *is* harder to mass-murder without access to guns.


Sorry, I thought you were trying

Lsherm: mjohnson71: As a fairly lapsed Catholic who only goes a few times a year, I think I'm going to pick my 3 year old up from daycare and go straight to tonight's Thursday Mass.

Yes, I know that's wrong in a lot of people's eyes, but I'm really hoping for some sort of prospective on this.

Gold?

[img577.imageshack.us image 412x349]

I'll assume some bizarre autocorrect.

As a lapsed Catholic, you're better than this practicing one. I still won't go to Thursday mass because my father made us go to mass on Thanksgiving when we were growing up, and I pointed out it was bullshiat because Thanksgiving is a US holiday. Holy Thursday? Sure. The other 51 Thursdays? I have some bizarre aversion to them.

I'll be there on Sunday, as always. Curious to see what the priest has to say about it.


Sorry, Chrome's autocorrects are getting strange.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:30 PM  

pedrop357: Only if we can do the same for abortions and posting to the Huffington Post.


With responses like this...it's no wonder people just end up saying "ban everything", If that is how you're going to respond to someone with a reasonable post about gun registration who specifically says they don't want to ban guns...what's the point?
 
2012-12-14 04:20:34 PM  
"...Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'"
Give everyone a gun, then, fark it. "Crazy Calvin" wouldn't act like such a fark if he knew that everyone around him had one, too. At that point, when death is imminent, less death could happen. We will never be okay in a world with violence, though, apart from the guns. Let's fix that first.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:51 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Don't most parents put the presents out on Christmas Eve?


Unless it's different in different regions of the country, no. Other than the occasional "back in my day" I've never heard of parents putting out presents only on Christmas Eve. Ours were always placed under the tree a while before Christmas. That's not counting the "Santa" presents that always showed up overnight.. just the ones from each family member to the others, plus gifts from other folks outside the family. Regardless, if nothing else there's a closet full of presents somewhere that these parents are going to have to deal with :(
 
2012-12-14 04:21:21 PM  
CPennypacker

Try again.....it CLEARLY demonstrates that more guns DO NOT = more crime.

So show me any pro gun control argument that does not hinge on this premise.
 
2012-12-14 04:21:37 PM  

mrshowrules: I wanted to see Obama's speech on this so I You Tubed it. Holyshiat, Obama gives alot of speeches like this. That's farked up.


He looks so old and beat down. I feel sorry for him.
 
2012-12-14 04:21:41 PM  
stop killing people!
 
2012-12-14 04:21:46 PM  
I was going to be the designated driver at a holiday part tomorrow night. Meh....may be sleeping over now. Need a drink from all this
 
2012-12-14 04:21:49 PM  

Somacandra: nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.

nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.

nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.

nekom: just that parents make it a little bit more personal. "What if it was my kid's school?" is a thought that has certainly occurred to me.
 

Thank you. This would include a President with two school-aged daughters. As a parent with one in Kindergarten, I can totally see why he'd be overcome.


except he drops bombs on kids everyday and is personally responsible for giving the order to assassinate a 17 year old US citizen. He made his bed, he can sleep in it
 
2012-12-14 04:21:53 PM  
Wait, now Fox says it isn't Ryan Lanza and was his brother Adam.
 
2012-12-14 04:21:56 PM  

Moderator: At this point in time information is coming in fast and we understand that you may want to link to a Facebook page or other information about the shooter.  Please try to refrain from doing so.  It is personal information, and it may link to innocent people unrelated to this tragedy.  Thank you for your consideration.


Good idea. So far we had, two people shot, three people shot, no kids killed, one kid killed, the shooter was the father of a child there, the shooter was 18-20 years old, the shooter was Ryan Lanza, the shooter was Adam Lanza, the shooter killed both his parents at home and then went to the school, the shooter killed his older brother and his girlfriend, the shooter went to the school and killed his mother etc....

Maybe we should take a breath and wait for facts.
 
2012-12-14 04:21:57 PM  
To the don't politicize this crowd, fark you. It's exactly the time to, because we all know our attention span. And, fine, you don't want to infringe on your precious gun rights, then fark it...lets just legalize and mass distribute grenades, landmines and napalm. They can kill just as equally as a semi-auto can anyways.
 
2012-12-14 04:22:13 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-14 04:22:20 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: And if we instituted those kinds of restrictions, the NRA's coveted "responsible, law abiding gun owners" could still get their guns. They would just have to jump through a few more hoops to get them in order to ENSURE that they would be "responsible, law abiding gun owners." Gun rights activists should be IN FAVOR of stricter checks before purchasing firearms because it lessens the risk that bad people can get their hands on guns -- those are the people that make all gun owners look bad.


dear zombie christ, this.
 
2012-12-14 04:22:20 PM  

bootman: Are we to the point yet where we can demand recommendations on policy changes from the NRA and their ilk on how to prevent insane folks from obtaining firearms? The issues surrounding mentally disturbed people and firearms is an existential issue for the NRA, are they just too stupid to realize it?


The NRA has no problem with restricting insane people from owning guns. The problem is how to determine "insane". Does having a history of depression count? PTSD from Afghanistan? How about believing that a race war is imminent, and stocking up on MREs?
 
2012-12-14 04:22:24 PM  

Virtue: CPennypacker

Try again.....it CLEARLY demonstrates that more guns DO NOT = more crime.

So show me any pro gun control argument that does not hinge on this premise.


Your whole point was that a different country with more guns has less gun violence. Seems like the logical conclusion is that we can't be trusted with them here.
 
2012-12-14 04:22:31 PM  

Virtue: "As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'""


BS! Getting Guns in Israel if you live past the Green Line (settlers) is easy, for everyone else I believe there is a requirement to show need. The CATO guy is being disingenuous, surprise! There are 88.8 private guns for every 100 people in the US, in Israel there are 7.3/10

He is including military guns which are a different story
 
Esn
2012-12-14 04:22:46 PM  
If those children had had guns, they could've shot the gunman before he'd shot so many of them.

The solution is to allow children to carry guns.

/haven't read the thread, anyone suggested this yet? It's the only logical solution.
 
2012-12-14 04:22:48 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: shower_in_my_socks: WhyteRaven74: they were reporting he killed his mother and father earlier


His mother worked at the school. Possible chain of events: gets pissed at his family, kills his bro, drives to his mother's school, kills her, and then just goes completely farking apeshiat and kills every little kid in the room. CRAZY.

Why is the other brother in custody then?


Im going with mommy attention issues. Teachers tend to spend a lot of their personal time on school stuff...Im thinking this kid couldnt handle it...and chances are the other dead family members had told him to STFU n get over it...maybe he couldnt.


Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(


Wolf BLitzer has already started, he just callled all 3 "sophisticated assault weapons"...and so it begins.
 
2012-12-14 04:22:57 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Wait, now Fox says it isn't Ryan Lanza and was his brother Adam.


I've seen different sources jump back and forth between the two that I'm not going to believe it unless they know for sure who was who in this.
 
2012-12-14 04:22:58 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?

How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.


A hammer is a tool. A gun is a weapon.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:01 PM  
Ardilla

Virtue: As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'"


Right, so we have to deal with reality, not fantasy. We have a population that is more prone to internal violence than small, homogeneous groups of Israelis or Swedes, for a lot of reasons. But that's a fact, unpleasant though it may be. But it's reality. So, we need laws that work for our society, to limit the massacres.

And that means reducing the control moneyed interests, like the arms industry, has over the government. Then limiting the manufacture and sale of firearms so that there will be less firearms for criminals to get.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:07 PM  

WhyteRaven74: orclover: So ignore them and hope they go away? Personally I am an advocate of prozak in the water supplies.

Just tell them we want a functioning society and we'll have one with or without their support.


As long as we dont call it a civilized society, such a thing has never really existed.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:18 PM  

dukeblue219: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Don't most parents put the presents out on Christmas Eve?

Unless it's different in different regions of the country, no. Other than the occasional "back in my day" I've never heard of parents putting out presents only on Christmas Eve. Ours were always placed under the tree a while before Christmas. That's not counting the "Santa" presents that always showed up overnight.. just the ones from each family member to the others, plus gifts from other folks outside the family. Regardless, if nothing else there's a closet full of presents somewhere that these parents are going to have to deal with :(


weird. My dad always put them under the tree after I went to bed.

My mom never gave me presents because she converted to Judaism and I wasn't Jewish.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:19 PM  

dennysgod: Westboro Baptist church blaming this on Maine, Maryland, and Washington legalizing same-sex marriages last month in 3...2...1...


/you know those f*ckers will


And protest the funerals of the kids. That's how they roll.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:19 PM  

miltoncharles: We had guns before the bloody movies and graphic television shows.
We had guns back when "video game" meant "Pong."
We had guns back when teachers routinely brought out the paddles to discipline students.
We had guns back when songs about killing others would never have been pressed into records.

What we didn't have before all of this was all these crazy shootings.


I'm pretty sure that Jack the Ripper didn't watch violent movies or have an Xbox 360. Mass murders and mental illness go back as far as humans have existed. As far as a lack of discipline goes I really don't think you can spank the crazy out of someone.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:40 PM  

topcon: [i.imgur.com image 706x762]


Please tell me Reddit ran a silly photoshop contest to show how jump-the-gun our media has become.

Please. I can't take it.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:42 PM  

Virtue: Ardilla

As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'"



I know this has come up before but Michael Moore pointed this out in Bowling for Columbine years ago, with Canada. Except nobody paid attention because they erroneously thought it was an anti-gun movie when really it was asking:

what's up with the culture that so many people turn into killers?

Is it a lack of adequate mental health care? Do we all too easily ignore people who are sick?

Is it media, with glorification of weapons and war? One might say to that: demand gets its supply. Where does the demand come from and why? Is it a cycle?

I think it's a complex mix of factors that have lead to the devaluing of human life and dignity, which is ironic considering some of the political sloganeering.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:57 PM  

Sultan Of Herf: Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(

Wolf BLitzer has already started, he just callled all 3 "sophisticated assault weapons"...and so it begins.


That's normal. CNN will blame guns. Fox will blame video games. MSNBC will blame men.
 
2012-12-14 04:23:59 PM  

Ambivalence: Ardilla:
Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.

I don't think it needs to be that...complex. If someone says something about killing the president, people wouldn't hesitate to report that kind of thing to the secret service. That's usually how assasination attempts are thwarted, someone reports that someone has been saying things that are worrisome.

But if someone talks about being so pissed off about something they want to "put a bullet in someone's head", we tend to shrug it off as them just venting.

Why is that, I wonder? These sorts of things don't happen in a vaccum. There are always signs that we, as a whole, tend to condition ourselves to ignore or disregard. Why is that?


What's complex about that proposal? I just thought of these off the top of my head in the last few minutes. Is there something overly draconian about what I've proposed? Are you saying that what I'm proposing is not feasible?
 
2012-12-14 04:24:01 PM  

pedrop357: shower_in_my_socks: My answer to this is always "They COULD have built bombs, and yet for some reason these @ssholes always choose to go with guns instead. I wonder why...."

They did build bombs, they just sucked. Had the bombs worked, Columbine would have eclipse the Bath massacre.



I'm not just talking about Columbine. I'm talking about all mass shootings. They reach for the guns first because they are the most efficient killing weapons your average, untrained person can get their hands on. Today there was also a mass knife attack at a school in China that got 22 kids stabbed and cut, and yet none of them died. I imagine that Chinese psycho would have much preferred to have done it with a gun, if only he could have found one.
 
2012-12-14 04:24:05 PM  

Gabrin_Kinoda: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Pssst...to any young kids reading Fark today in elementary school. First of all, you shouldn't be on this site, it's nasty. But second of all, when you go home tonight, you can pretty much write your own farking check. Have your folks been hemming and hawing about that puppy or bicycle or Xbox you really want for Christmas? Now's your chance. Just put on those big, wet anime eyes, and say something cute like, "I wuv you mommy," or "Can we have pasketti for dinner," and then drop a little hint about great it would be to have a bike or puppy or Xbox, and how happy it would make you and it sure would be a shame if Something Bad happened to you before you got a chance to enjoy it. Also, you got a pretty good shot at ice cream for dessert tonight.

This is pretty much what I plan on doing tonight with my kids. My husband and 9-yr-old daughter are playing Flames of War at the local gaming shop tonight. I'll make sure he takes her for pizza before and ice cream afterward. I'll be doing the same at home with our 3-yr-old son--watching back-to-back episodes of "Spongebob" and eating popcorn until we explode. As others have said, I'll hug them tigher and shower them with kisses and tell them how much I love them 47 times before they go to bed. Because I can. And my heart aches for those who can't tonight.


I have you farkied as being from my hometown. Have a slice of Shakespeare's for me and my kids, who are getting spoiled silly tonight too.
 
2012-12-14 04:24:17 PM  
This whole thing makes me physically ill. I just can't... There are NO WORDS.
 
2012-12-14 04:24:33 PM  

inner ted: coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.

yes, please keep bringing race into an incident that had little to nothing to do with race.

/when you tire out that chicken, what will you move on to?


Isn't it crazy how it's never about race when a white person is the perpetrator?
 
2012-12-14 04:24:35 PM  

futalfufu: I'm supposed to go make people laugh tonight, and I'm trying not to cry.

/my heart goes out to everyone


It will be tough, but people are going to need a laugh more then ever.
 
2012-12-14 04:24:50 PM  

mrshowrules: IRQ12: : mrshowrulesJerseyTim: CBS: Six more children found hiding in closets at school. #newtown- jessica testa (@jtes) December 14, 2012


Is there a source for this? If that is tru it's so brutal I can't even think,

IfSterling Thunder: Having 4 kids this makes me very sad and very angry. I don't care about which side of gun control you fall on as there is likely no changing your mind. If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb, waste like this don't care or think they just act. Of course the cowards offed themselves or went and hid because consequences are for others. There is no punishment harsh enough.

You start by saying you don't care which side you are on but then proceed to give a tired pro-gun argument.

How long does it take to build a bomb big enough to kill this many people? How long does it take a mentally person to build a device like this. I had a close friend who has schizophrenia. When he was losing his faculties he found even the most mundane tasks complicated. Building a bomb for him would be impossible.



I say I don't care because people have made up their minds, and that is fine. My very valid point is that wastes like this will find a way. I didn't say it was ok that they used guns or others should or shouldn't have them. Keep your projections to yourself.
 
2012-12-14 04:24:54 PM  

WizardofToast: topcon: [i.imgur.com image 706x762]

Please tell me Reddit ran a silly photoshop contest to show how jump-the-gun our media has become.

Please. I can't take it.


No idea, I saw it somewhere else.

farked up what the news did to that first guy, though.
 
2012-12-14 04:24:57 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(

Simply put, I was right, he was a yahoo gun nut, not a responsible owner. I called that shiat a mile away a few hours ago.

Totally done now.


and that is why you fail...guns belonged to the parents according to CNN.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:10 PM  

make me some tea: coco ebert: There is no proper day for politics. Politics is a part of everything we do. If we were there or at the funeral, there is something to be said about not talking about something like that, but this is an internet posting board for chrissakes. Deal with it.

Link


Huh. I did not expect that from Barack "I'm going to be the most pro-gun president EVAH even though conservatives still won't vote for me" Obama.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:17 PM  

zedster: He is including military guns which are a different story


You do realize that is coming from the anti gun crowd right?
 
2012-12-14 04:25:19 PM  

Fark It: Weeners


welp
 
2012-12-14 04:25:19 PM  
Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.


At which point a thriving black market in guns starts up, and anybody with bucks can get whatever guns they want, and we're back to square one. See Prohibition, War on Drugs, etc. The Genie is out of the bottle for good. Restricting law abiding citizens from access to self defense guns will have the perverse effect of making ALL of us even more vulnerable to the bad guys.

What Miltoncharles said, it's not the guns, it's our farked up culture. I blame TV/movies. They have really twisted up our society.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:20 PM  
So the AP is saying the cop source that gave the names...transposed the names Adam and Ryan.

Mighty fine police work, Lou.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:21 PM  
Most responsible gun owners exercise gun safety in their house. They lock up their guns and they make sure people aren't using them who shouldn't. You wouldn't let your child or a family member use your gun, buy it or borrow it if they were not properly trained on how to use it or if you thought they might do something stupid with it.

Why the hell wouldn't you, at minimum, do this on community level as well.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:26 PM  

eagles95: I was going to be the designated driver at a holiday part tomorrow night. Meh....may be sleeping over now. Need a drink from all this


I don't drink when I get home from work; but a nice stiff gin and tonic would be very nice while I watch my son play.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:28 PM  

JerseyTim: You can see how they might have gotten the two brothers mixed up. Someone says "it was so-and-so's son who did it" and then they say, "You mean Ryan?" and it gets out from there.


Doesn't matter, anybody who was falsely pointed to by the media as being the shooter is going to be winning a MASSIVE payday. In fact If I were them I wouldn't even bother to offer a settlement. It's such an open and shut case that you can get them for every single penny they own.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:32 PM  

powtard: To the don't politicize this crowd, fark you. It's exactly the time to, because we all know our attention span. And, fine, you don't want to infringe on your precious gun rights, then fark it...lets just legalize and mass distribute grenades, landmines and napalm. They can kill just as equally as a semi-auto can anyways.


We don't need to "politicize" this. We need to disregard politics entirely and have an honest and critical look at how these tragedies occur and how to best mitigate them.

"Politicizing" is a guaranteed way of making sure nothing happens. Of course when you have one side trying to have an honest conversation and the other side accusing them of politicizing it, all roads lead to the same outcome: nothing happens.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:32 PM  

Carn: Noticeably F.A.T.: Carn: Like it's not valid to talk about gun control when 18 kids get shot in a rampage?

How about we try to figure out why people do stupid shiat like this and see if we can't stop they before they get going? Nah, that's just crazy. I don't know what came over me there. Let's continue trying focusing on the tools instead of the users. It hasn't worked in the past, but that just means it about to start working.

A hammer is a tool. A gun is a weapon.


What about a gun that shoots hammers, genius?
 
2012-12-14 04:25:35 PM  

JungleBoogie: y. We have a population that is more prone to internal violence than small, homogeneous groups of Israelis or Swedes, for a lot of reasons.


Check the rates of poverty in Sweden or Switzerland, then check the poverty rate in the US. You have most of your issue right there.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:35 PM  

Psycat: Just out of curiosity, what would happen with the never-ending gun control debate if a madman with an assault rifle ever went nuts at an NRA meeting?


Or just dropped some firecrackers.
 
2012-12-14 04:25:37 PM  

Carn: A hammer is a tool. A gun is a weapon.


All depends upon who is using it...
 
2012-12-14 04:25:46 PM  

Mrtraveler01: I've seen different sources jump back and forth between the two that I'm not going to believe it unless they know for sure who was who in this.


I'm about to tune this all out until the evening news. It's ridiculous how the media throws out anything they hear as fact in the race to report it first.
 
2012-12-14 04:26:10 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: pedrop357: shower_in_my_socks: My answer to this is always "They COULD have built bombs, and yet for some reason these @ssholes always choose to go with guns instead. I wonder why...."

They did build bombs, they just sucked. Had the bombs worked, Columbine would have eclipse the Bath massacre.


I'm not just talking about Columbine. I'm talking about all mass shootings. They reach for the guns first because they are the most efficient killing weapons your average, untrained person can get their hands on. Today there was also a mass knife attack at a school in China that got 22 kids stabbed and cut, and yet none of them died. I imagine that Chinese psycho would have much preferred to have done it with a gun, if only he could have found one.


god, this.
 
2012-12-14 04:26:16 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: I'm not just talking about Columbine. I'm talking about all mass shootings. They reach for the guns first because they are the most efficient killing weapons your average, untrained person can get their hands on. Today there was also a mass knife attack at a school in China that got 22 kids stabbed and cut, and yet none of them died. I imagine that Chinese psycho would have much preferred to have done it with a gun, if only he could have found one.


They are the most efficient, effective, etc. right now. Ban them and people will simply replace them with something else and you'll have accomplished little. Small armies in Africa manage to commit mass murders with machetes, fire, starvation, etc. No need for guns to kill large numbers of people.
 
2012-12-14 04:26:19 PM  

IronTom: or a cop is always stationed there,


Mall cop, or cop cop? 

This would be the world's most boring job 250 days of the year across 1000s of schools. The money would be much better spent elsewhere.... such as improving the social safety net.
 
2012-12-14 04:26:29 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Bontesla: /no. Not really.

Hey, I admitted that I was temporarily nuts. We need to keep ignoring crazy people and continue to focus on guns. The fact that is hasn't worked yet is just proof that it will.


And why not both approaches? Why ignore guns to speculate?
 
2012-12-14 04:26:56 PM  

FinFangFark: So the AP is saying the cop source that gave the names...transposed the names Adam and Ryan.



Yep. AP sources: 20-year-old Adam Lanza is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, mother Nancy Lanza presumed dead.
 
2012-12-14 04:26:59 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Mrtraveler01: I've seen different sources jump back and forth between the two that I'm not going to believe it unless they know for sure who was who in this.

I'm about to tune this all out until the evening news. It's ridiculous how the media throws out anything they hear as fact in the race to report it first.


Wait until tomorrow. They won't have it straight by the evening news. It'll take a day for them to get a full head-count, secure the school, and systematically approach the event.
 
2012-12-14 04:27:06 PM  

powtard: To the don't politicize this crowd, fark you. It's exactly the time to, because we all know our attention span. And, fine, you don't want to infringe on your precious gun rights, then fark it...lets just legalize and mass distribute grenades, landmines and napalm. They can kill just as equally as a semi-auto can anyways.


So emotional, knee-jerk reactions are what's needed RIGHTNOW for this country? What a novel idea.
 
2012-12-14 04:27:09 PM  

SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.


I don't think so. Dead adults and teenagers - that's like war. Dead kindergardeners... one six year old grabbing his lunch before running out... that's something that's going to stick around for a long, long time.

This was the type of massacre, sufficiently brutal and grotesque, to really get some effective changes done. People need to get off their lazy butts and get involved. The first problem is breaking the control moneyed interests have over DC. The second is reducing the manufacture and sale of firearms so criminals have less access to them.
 
2012-12-14 04:27:35 PM  

pedrop357: shower_in_my_socks: I'm not just talking about Columbine. I'm talking about all mass shootings. They reach for the guns first because they are the most efficient killing weapons your average, untrained person can get their hands on. Today there was also a mass knife attack at a school in China that got 22 kids stabbed and cut, and yet none of them died. I imagine that Chinese psycho would have much preferred to have done it with a gun, if only he could have found one.

They are the most efficient, effective, etc. right now. Ban them and people will simply replace them with something else and you'll have accomplished little. Small armies in Africa manage to commit mass murders with machetes, fire, starvation, etc. No need for guns to kill large numbers of people.


Oh please
 
2012-12-14 04:27:43 PM  

Carn: A hammer is a tool. A gun is a weapon.


Well, you said so, so it must be true.
 
2012-12-14 04:27:45 PM  
20 dead children. Jesus, 20 dead FARKING CHILDREN. What worm-eaten excuse for a brain to you have to have that makes you capable of putting a rifle to your shoulder, looking down the sights seeing CHILD's Face and STILLbeing able pull the trigger?! Holy mother of god, how could ANYONE do that no matter how sick or filled with rage?

To all you worthless human beings whose first reaction to a store about a rampage killing of 20 little kids is to worry about whether someone wants to take your gun away, all I can say is FARK YOU, Fark you right in arse with a rusty chainsaw. Spew your paranoid bullshiat another day. Have the decency to mourn today instead
 
2012-12-14 04:27:59 PM  

JungleBoogie: Bring it. Your side has been winning for a long time, and all we have are massacres to show for it. It's time for new ideas as your ideas have failed to stop the bloodbaths.

It's time to break control that moneyed interests have over government. It's time to stop "Government of the highest bidder, by the highest bidder, for the highest bidder." And return it to "Government of the people, by the people, for the people." It's time to break the stranglehold the arms industry has over the government.

It's time to limit the manufacture and sale of firearms. It's time to get rid of willful self-delusion peddled by emotional, unreasoning gun advocates. Pro-gun groups have made one good point - gun laws aren't observed by criminals. True enough. So there need to be fewer guns in society that criminals can get.


Right, because we have perfectly accessible mental healthcare? We've legalized drugs and disincentivized the drug trade? We've solved poverty, spousal abuse, and domestic problems?

If we have, and I missed all of that, and we're still having a pandemic of violence, by all means, I'll shift my position. But until we do, then, go back to smoking whatever you like.
 
2012-12-14 04:28:08 PM  
I spent many, many years working with elementary-school-age kids, and had a particular fondness for the kindergartners, the little ones. Having no children of my own, they woke up my paternal instincts, and I delighted in teaching them, watching their eyes light up with discovery when they learned something new, or when I was greeted with a mass of hugs when walking in the door. I cared for all my kids, the thousands I took care of, but those tiny ones always held a place in my heart. I never forgot that I was being handed a huge responsibility in being trusted with a parent's most valuable asset in life: their child. I would have gladly given my own life to defend any one of them. I'm sure the dead teachers did the same.

Got over the tears.
Got over the urge to vomit.
Still stunned.
Dude had the decency to off himself...just wish he'd done it first.
 
2012-12-14 04:28:24 PM  
As a society we have allowed a certain viewpoint to trump all common sense to a sadistic point of cognitive dissonance. Today we get yet another reminder of the high price we pay to make sure that money is never spent to alleviate mental anguish, and that every citizen has the right to wield the most awesome killing machines man ever made without any interference.

These are consequences to choices.
 
2012-12-14 04:28:26 PM  

pedrop357: shower_in_my_socks: I'm not just talking about Columbine. I'm talking about all mass shootings. They reach for the guns first because they are the most efficient killing weapons your average, untrained person can get their hands on. Today there was also a mass knife attack at a school in China that got 22 kids stabbed and cut, and yet none of them died. I imagine that Chinese psycho would have much preferred to have done it with a gun, if only he could have found one.

They are the most efficient, effective, etc. right now. Ban them and people will simply replace them with something else and you'll have accomplished little. Small armies in Africa manage to commit mass murders with machetes, fire, starvation, etc. No need for guns to kill large numbers of people.


Wait until they figure out he could have done the same thing with a bag of flour.
 
2012-12-14 04:28:40 PM  

pedrop357: Ban them and people will simply replace them with something else and you'll have accomplished little.



Then why is the murder rate in Japan, where guns are illegal, 1/8th the level of the US's? What, Japanese pyschos just aren't resourceful enough?
 
2012-12-14 04:28:43 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: FinFangFark: So the AP is saying the cop source that gave the names...transposed the names Adam and Ryan.


Yep. AP sources: 20-year-old Adam Lanza is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, mother Nancy Lanza presumed dead.


Reports are he had his bro's ID on him.
 
2012-12-14 04:28:56 PM  
The Second Amendment guarantees free Americans the right to own firearms.

We so firmly believe this that we teach it in kindergarten now.
 
2012-12-14 04:29:07 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: FinFangFark: So the AP is saying the cop source that gave the names...transposed the names Adam and Ryan.


Yep. AP sources: 20-year-old Adam Lanza is dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, mother Nancy Lanza presumed dead.


They've also no confirmed that the person they arrested at the school is Ryan Lanza, or if he was taken into custody in NJ like his roomates, or if he was the one they took into custody at the home in Newton where the dad was killed.

Also they have shut down part of the highway in Newton and it's related to this case.

A lot of stuff going on.
 
2012-12-14 04:29:17 PM  

netweavr: Sultan Of Herf: Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(

Wolf BLitzer has already started, he just callled all 3 "sophisticated assault weapons"...and so it begins.

That's normal. CNN will blame guns. Fox will blame video games. MSNBC will blame men.


I wish it was law for every single newsperson to take a multiple day gun familiarization classes along with biennial refresher courses.
 
2012-12-14 04:29:22 PM  
This argument fetish needs to end. This discussion is nothing if both sides aren't equally concerned with the same goal: saving lives.
 
2012-12-14 04:29:25 PM  

COMALite J:

All of this is just one example of the numerous shenanigans Moore pulled in that movie. And the really sad thing is that he had a golden opportunity to do the right thing instead. He himself has since said on video that he agrees that the SSRI hypothesis is the most likely explanation, that fits all of the known observations including timing and demographics.

If today′s tragedy involves SSRIs or SNRIs or some such as well as it almost certainly does (I would be extremely surprised if that turns out to not be the case, though it could still be hypermania caused by a brain tumor, blow to the head, etc. as was the case with most known such incidents prior to the introduction of SSRIs), then this would bring the body count of incidents we know about that would almost certainly have been prevented had Moore done the right thing, to nearly three digits.


Ignoring the rest of what you said (this just in, Michael Moore is an idiot and everyone already knew), what is this? I remember some vigilantly anti-Psychology nuts getting into a rage about SSRIs after Columbine, but the only thing officially said about it was that the shooter had some SSRI in his system and might have been influenced to go off his meds. What's this nonsense about SSRI's causing school shootings?

SSRIs do, in less than 1% of the population that takes them, exacerbate the symptoms that they're trying to cure. Many other medicines do the exact same thing. That's why in the few weeks where someone is starting an SSRI treatment plan, they should be carefully monitored by a mental health professional to make sure that if they start seeing signs of this that the treatment is terminated. However, someone being an idiot and terminating treatment abruptly, or taking too many/too little... that would be dangerous. That would be dangerous pretty much no matter what kind of pill you're talking about.
 
2012-12-14 04:29:33 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Then why is the murder rate in Japan, where guns are illegal, 1/8th the level of the US's? What, Japanese pyschos just aren't resourceful enough?


As David Lamp writes at Cato, "In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel 'have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.'"
 
2012-12-14 04:29:48 PM  

miltoncharles: I remember hearing people rail against violence in the movies and on TV. "Kids shouldn't see this," they said. "They might become violent." Others thought they were nuts.

I remember hearing people rail against violence in video games. "Kids shouldn't have these," they said. "It'll make them insensitive to death." Others thought they were nuts.

I remember hearing people say, "Kids who misbehave should be spanked. They need to learn there are consequences to their actions." Others thought they were nuts and put their kids in "time out."

Then something like this happens and all fingers point to the guns.

We had guns before the bloody movies and graphic television shows.
We had guns back when "video game" meant "Pong."
We had guns back when teachers routinely brought out the paddles to discipline students.
We had guns back when songs about killing others would never have been pressed into records.

What we didn't have before all of this was all these crazy shootings.

For most kids, watching violent movies or television will do nothing.
For most kids, listening to music that suggests violent actions will do nothing.
For most kids, playing violent video games will do nothing.

But shove enough violence into a mind that's wired just a little bit differently......

/those whiney goody-two-shoes cronies might have been right.
//Don't get me wrong. I still think there needs to be a psych exam for anyone who buys anything north of a shotgun. But there are too many guns out there to put that genie back in the bottle.
///I also think teachers should be allowed to carry.


I have been waiting for someone to make this point.
 
2012-12-14 04:29:54 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: pedrop357: Ban them and people will simply replace them with something else and you'll have accomplished little.


Then why is the murder rate in Japan, where guns are illegal, 1/8th the level of the US's? What, Japanese pyschos just aren't resourceful enough?


Maybe the Japanese culture is different. Japanese do manage a much higher suicide rate than the US.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:01 PM  
They pray to God,

shoot their guns,

and see the guts.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:03 PM  

ZeroPly: bootman: Are we to the point yet where we can demand recommendations on policy changes from the NRA and their ilk on how to prevent insane folks from obtaining firearms? The issues surrounding mentally disturbed people and firearms is an existential issue for the NRA, are they just too stupid to realize it?

The NRA has no problem with restricting insane people from owning guns. The problem is how to determine "insane". Does having a history of depression count? PTSD from Afghanistan? How about believing that a race war is imminent, and stocking up on MREs?


FNC reported that the weapons in question were registered to the mother of the shooter, who was killed with those weapons.

Doesn't really matter what laws you pass - this guy didn't buy the guns.

The problem, though no one wants to say it, is the tool. The gun. Bombs are difficult to make. Knives can't mass kill people in a short amount of time without an army. You can run a car into a crowd of people, but besides old people, no one seems to be using cars to take out their anger on other people.

I own a few guns. I'm not worried about what I'll do with them, but if someone breaks into my house and steals them, the potential for days like today goes up exponentially. I'm not enough of an advocate to understand the problem here.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:08 PM  

WhyteRaven74: JungleBoogie: y. We have a population that is more prone to internal violence than small, homogeneous groups of Israelis or Swedes, for a lot of reasons.

Check the rates of poverty in Sweden or Switzerland, then check the poverty rate in the US. You have most of your issue right there.


Getting mental health care is a tad easier as well. And by Tad I mean...farkING LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of us. So not so many crazy people just walking around with access to firearms.

Give 100 sane people a button that kills anyone they choose instantly and you will have 100 people alive at the end of each day (barring accidents). Add 1 mentally unbalanced person tot he mix and you will likely have at least 1 dead very soon.



ITS NOT THE farkING BUTTONS DOING THE KILLING.
/should I put that in bold?
 
2012-12-14 04:30:19 PM  

mjohnson71: netweavr: Sultan Of Herf: Richard Flaccid: bulldg4life: Glock
Sig sauer
223 Bushmaster

Aw shiat. Here we go :(

Wolf BLitzer has already started, he just callled all 3 "sophisticated assault weapons"...and so it begins.

That's normal. CNN will blame guns. Fox will blame video games. MSNBC will blame men.

I wish it was law for every single newsperson to take a multiple day gun familiarization classes along with biennial refresher courses.


I almost wish it were law that the police could place a 24-hour moratorium on news stories regarding mass casualties.

Almost.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:20 PM  

Ardilla: Ambivalence: Ardilla:
Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.

I don't think it needs to be that...complex. If someone says something about killing the president, people wouldn't hesitate to report that kind of thing to the secret service. That's usually how assasination attempts are thwarted, someone reports that someone has been saying things that are worrisome.

But if someone talks about being so pissed off about something they want to "put a bullet in someone's head", we tend to shrug it off as them just venting.

Why is that, I wonder? These sorts of things don't happen in a vaccum. There are always signs that we, as a whole, tend to condition ourselves to ignore or disregard. Why is that?

What's complex about that proposal? I just thought of these off the top of my head in the last few minutes. Is there something overly draconian about what I've proposed? Are you saying that what I'm proposing is not feasible?


There severe penalty part certainly is not. We tried that for drug crimes. Not so successful. You may have read about it.

Plus there's the problem of the guns already out there. They are pretty durable. We have enough in circulation already to arm the adult populace several times over.

Ban person to person gun sales. You can only sell to a registered dealer. No more gun shows. Expand buy back programs. Raises taxes on ammunition.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:43 PM  

mjohnson71: eagles95: I was going to be the designated driver at a holiday part tomorrow night. Meh....may be sleeping over now. Need a drink from all this

I don't drink when I get home from work; but a nice stiff gin and tonic would be very nice while I watch my son play.


I make it a point to not drink around my kid. He wont be around tomorrow night to see how shiatfaced i get
 
2012-12-14 04:30:57 PM  
Gun nuts have horrible arguments and are consistently logically argued and pinned to the ground with no where left to go they start repeating their dull ridiculousness they started with.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:59 PM  

Ardilla: Let's start with a framework:

1) Make it absolutely illegal to buy, sell, own, or use a gun without earning a license and enact SEVERE criminal penalties for violations of this/these law/s.
2) Make it mandatory to pass a mental health screening as a condition of earning a license.
3) Gun licenses must be renewed at least as often as drivers' licenses are renewed, with repeat mental health screening at each renewal.
4) SEVERE criminal penalties for anyone who sells or gives a gun to an unlicensed person.
5) Require all guns to be registered as we do cars, with a mandatory ballistic ID database program.

You'll note that I am not advocating the absolute prohibition of guns. But these steps would go a long way toward limiting the number of mentally unstable people with guns.


1. A license is just a piece of paper. What you are referring to is registration. The government knows which legal owners have guns. Unconstitutional, and completely counter to the purpose of the 2A. Sorry but that's just the reality.
2. OK, so the government also has centralized medical records. Have fun with ACLU.
3. Blatant infringement. The same arguments used against voter ID laws apply here.
4. Penalties are already severe.
5. Right, registration, centralization of what lawful citizens have guns, massive added cost from ballistic identification and redundant mental health evaluations with questionable effectiveness.

Just say you want to ban guns and that at your core you are a centralized authority type of guy. I'll also speculate that this creep could have passed a hypothetical mental health evaluation. It's called lying.
 
2012-12-14 04:31:02 PM  

COMALite J: Why did the NRA choose Denver? Because the NRA is big,


But for just a bit of perspective, it has less than 4,000,000 members. The gun owning population of the US is (+-) 80,000,000 controlling over 300,000,000 personal firearms.

Yes, they're influential but even Obama could not have been elected in the first place and then reelected without the votes of millions and millions of gun owners. This is why the crickets you hear about gun control come from "both sides of the aisle"
 
2012-12-14 04:31:04 PM  

orclover: Give 100 sane people a button that kills anyone they choose instantly and you will have 100 people alive at the end of each day (barring accidents). Add 1 mentally unbalanced person tot he mix and you will likely have at least 1 dead very soon.



ITS NOT THE farkING BUTTONS DOING THE KILLING.
/should I put that in bold?


Depends. Stanley Milgram may disagree.
 
2012-12-14 04:31:06 PM  
Has anyone heard from wholedamnshow again?
 
2012-12-14 04:31:21 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Moderator: At this point in time information is coming in fast and we understand that you may want to link to a Facebook page or other information about the shooter.  Please try to refrain from doing so.  It is personal information, and it may link to innocent people unrelated to this tragedy.  Thank you for your consideration.

Good idea. So far we had, two people shot, three people shot, no kids killed, one kid killed, the shooter was the father of a child there, the shooter was 18-20 years old, the shooter was Ryan Lanza, the shooter was Adam Lanza, the shooter killed both his parents at home and then went to the school, the shooter killed his older brother and his girlfriend, the shooter went to the school and killed his mother etc....

Maybe we should take a breath and wait for facts.


welcome to Fark?
 
2012-12-14 04:31:22 PM  
 
2012-12-14 04:31:25 PM  

JungleBoogie: SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.

I don't think so. Dead adults and teenagers - that's like war. Dead kindergardeners... one six year old grabbing his lunch before running out... that's something that's going to stick around for a long, long time.

This was the type of massacre, sufficiently brutal and grotesque, to really get some effective changes done. People need to get off their lazy butts and get involved. The first problem is breaking the control moneyed interests have over DC. The second is reducing the manufacture and sale of firearms so criminals have less access to them.


How, exactly, may manufacture and sale of firearms be reduced?
 
2012-12-14 04:31:27 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: 12349876: Sterling Thunder: If these wastes didn't have guns they would have made a homemade bomb,

The Columbine guys tried to make bombs and failed miserably, yet with their guns...


My answer to this is always "They COULD have built bombs, and yet for some reason these @ssholes always choose to go with guns instead. I wonder why...."



LET ME BE CLEAR: I don't have an opinion on the guns, my ONLY point is that if all the guns were gone tomorrow wastes like these would find another way. What happened SUCKS and it makes me sick guns or otherwise. Having been in the military I have seen BOTH guns and bombs and neither is pretty.
 
2012-12-14 04:31:50 PM  

lacydog: COMALite J:

All of this is just one example of the numerous shenanigans Moore pulled in that movie. And the really sad thing is that he had a golden opportunity to do the right thing instead. He himself has since said on video that he agrees that the SSRI hypothesis is the most likely explanation, that fits all of the known observations including timing and demographics.

If today′s tragedy involves SSRIs or SNRIs or some such as well as it almost certainly does (I would be extremely surprised if that turns out to not be the case, though it could still be hypermania caused by a brain tumor, blow to the head, etc. as was the case with most known such incidents prior to the introduction of SSRIs), then this would bring the body count of incidents we know about that would almost certainly have been prevented had Moore done the right thing, to nearly three digits.

Ignoring the rest of what you said (this just in, Michael Moore is an idiot and everyone already knew), what is this? I remember some vigilantly anti-Psychology nuts getting into a rage about SSRIs after Columbine, but the only thing officially said about it was that the shooter had some SSRI in his system and might have been influenced to go off his meds. What's this nonsense about SSRI's causing school shootings?

SSRIs do, in less than 1% of the population that takes them, exacerbate the symptoms that they're trying to cure. Many other medicines do the exact same thing. That's why in the few weeks where someone is starting an SSRI treatment plan, they should be carefully monitored by a mental health professional to make sure that if they start seeing signs of this that the treatment is terminated. However, someone being an idiot and terminating treatment abruptly, or taking too many/too little... that would be dangerous. That would be dangerous pretty much no matter what kind of pill you're talking about.


THIS. SO MUCH THIS.
 
2012-12-14 04:32:02 PM  

JungleBoogie: dwrash: I could also run around with a machete and a compound bow and do just as much damage.

No, you really couldn't.

Guns are a point and click lethal device, designed to deliver high velocity projectiles accurately from a distance. You certainly could do damage with an arrow or machete. Or car for that matter. But a firearm is a device that is the peak of lethal evolution. It is the most effective, inexpensive man-portable killing device that humanity has today.

That is why combat soldiers go into battle with firearms, and not bows and arrows, or machetes.


One word Bayonettes... still standard issue in the military for close quarter fighting.
 
2012-12-14 04:32:07 PM  

ArgusRun: Ban person to person gun sales. You can only sell to a registered dealer. No more gun shows. Expand buy back programs. Raises taxes on ammunition.


You going to ban reloading equipment too? How about 3d printers?
 
2012-12-14 04:32:09 PM  

JungleBoogie: SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.

I don't think so. Dead adults and teenagers - that's like war. Dead kindergardeners... one six year old grabbing his lunch before running out... that's something that's going to stick around for a long, long time.

This was the type of massacre, sufficiently brutal and grotesque, to really get some effective changes done. People need to get off their lazy butts and get involved. The first problem is breaking the control moneyed interests have over DC. The second is reducing the manufacture and sale of firearms so criminals have less access to them.


You know how I know nothing will happen ? Colt firearms are based in CT. The plant that makes the AR-15, the gun people seem to go nuts over is made right down the road in West Hartford CT. This would directly impact jobs in the very state where this occurred.
 
2012-12-14 04:32:14 PM  
My oldest son's 7. That's where my brain breaks.

fark it, I need to bail from work and have a drink while I watch him play with his brother.
 
2012-12-14 04:32:18 PM  

s2s2s2: This argument fetish needs to end. This discussion is nothing if both sides aren't equally concerned with the same goal: saving lives.


I just think the trolls just need to fark off and find a different thread to play in
 
2012-12-14 04:32:20 PM  

Virtue: zedster: He is including military guns which are a different story

You do realize that is coming from the anti gun crowd right?


CATO is anti-gun?

The quote appears to be saying:
1. Israel and Sweden have a high gun rate like the US
2. They do not have the same gun deaths numbers we do
3. therefor guns are not the problem

Problem is that 1 is simply not true and on top of that ignores the fact that both have conscription and thus a higher level of training on guns among their citizens.
 
2012-12-14 04:32:26 PM  

JungleBoogie: SpikeStrip: in a month, this will be forgotten.

I don't think so. Dead adults and teenagers - that's like war. Dead kindergardeners... one six year old grabbing his lunch before running out... that's something that's going to stick around for a long, long time.

This was the type of massacre, sufficiently brutal and grotesque, to really get some effective changes done. People need to get off their lazy butts and get involved. The first problem is breaking the control moneyed interests have over DC. The second is reducing the manufacture and sale of firearms so criminals have less access to them.


In 10 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, Connecticut lost 65 KIA. It's the farking scale of this slaughter that is just farking sad.
 
2012-12-14 04:32:55 PM  

Virtue: shower_in_my_socks: Then why is the murder rate in Japan, where guns are illegal, 1/8th the level of the US's? What, Japanese pyschos just aren't resourceful enough?

As David Lamp writes at Cato,


forum.sportsmogul.com
 
2012-12-14 04:32:58 PM  

buckler: I spent many, many years working with elementary-school-age kids, and had a particular fondness for the kindergartners, the little ones. Having no children of my own, they woke up my paternal instincts, and I delighted in teaching them, watching their eyes light up with discovery when they learned something new, or when I was greeted with a mass of hugs when walking in the door. I cared for all my kids, the thousands I took care of, but those tiny ones always held a place in my heart. I never forgot that I was being handed a huge responsibility in being trusted with a parent's most valuable asset in life: their child. I would have gladly given my own life to defend any one of them. I'm sure the dead teachers did the same.

Got over the tears.
Got over the urge to vomit.
Still stunned.
Dude had the decency to off himself...just wish he'd done it first.


I would prefer that he had survived, so that he can be forced to endure the consequences of his actions for the rest of what would have been his natural life.
 
2012-12-14 04:33:01 PM  

coco ebert: inner ted: coco ebert: The topic of mental health funding always comes up when the shooter is white. fark that, Imma go with terrorist sumamabiatch.

yes, please keep bringing race into an incident that had little to nothing to do with race.

/when you tire out that chicken, what will you move on to?

Isn't it crazy how it's never about race when a white person is the perpetrator?


please do explain how race is any factor at all in this incident
 
2012-12-14 04:33:04 PM  

netweavr: netwea


I would assume that if a news story says no deaths, that there are no confirmed deaths to report. That's kind of the most important detail in a story like this, it's not like it would just slip their mind to report it. That's not to say any of the wounded couldn't end up dying (obviously you hope they don't), but as of right now, it certainly would appear that there are no deaths in that story.
 
2012-12-14 04:33:04 PM