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(Huffington Post)   In the latest salvo fired in the Republican War on Women, Governor Bobby Jindal suggests that birth control should be over the counter. Wait, what?   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 224
    More: Interesting, Bobby Jindal, human beings, Equal Pay Act, Paycheck Fairness Act, obstetricians, Priebus tried, shiny objects, Priebus  
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1539 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Dec 2012 at 1:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-14 11:39:39 AM  
It's an interesting idea, and I certainly like it better than some busybody religious folks sticking their noses where it doesn't belong and determining how employees may use their benefits.

Of course, the right thing to do would be for the busybody religious folks sticking their noses where it doesn't belong and determining how employees may use their benefits to back the f*ck off. But that's not likely to happen.
 
2012-12-14 11:46:26 AM  
I think it's a good idea. Also, most health insurance doesn't cover OTC medication, so that would solve that issue, too.
 
2012-12-14 11:46:53 AM  
I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

Now, we should have single payer healthcare and BC should be free, but someone needs to prescribe it.
 
2012-12-14 11:48:30 AM  

what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

Now, we should have single payer healthcare and BC should be free, but someone needs to prescribe it.


what she said
 
2012-12-14 11:48:31 AM  
Considering that HBC can have some pretty accute side effects, I'm pretty sure that would be a bad idea.

It also seems like these folks still think there's only one kind of oral contraceptive.

I followed the link to the "study" (which is really just the result of a bunch of people talking and then finding some sources, it looks like) and damn them's some rosy colored glasses.
 
2012-12-14 11:49:41 AM  

what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.


The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists disagrees. Link
 
2012-12-14 11:52:28 AM  

Nabb1: what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists disagrees. Link


As I said above, read that a little more carefully, they base a whole ton of their findings on phone surveys and some pretty loosey-goosey assumptions.
 
2012-12-14 11:52:48 AM  

what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

Now, we should have single payer healthcare and BC should be free, but someone needs to prescribe it.


Well, I kind of thought the same thing, but the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists thinks its safe enough to give OTC. Which kind of sways me to think it's probably okay. It would be behind the counter, and pharmacists would be there to answer questions and help them with the choices (ideally). 

But yes, I think it should be drop dead free no matter what kind of healthcare system we have.
 
2012-12-14 11:54:51 AM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Nabb1: what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists disagrees. Link

As I said above, read that a little more carefully, they base a whole ton of their findings on phone surveys and some pretty loosey-goosey assumptions.


There are side effects to any OTC medication with long term use. A concerned woman should obviously talk to her physician about such usage, but there is no reason to restrict access to birth control to prescription-only. The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.
 
2012-12-14 11:56:14 AM  

Nabb1: what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists disagrees. Link


They're making the best of a bad situation. Women without health insurance should still have across to birth control, they say, and under the current situation, they are correct.

Lets solve the underlying problem of women who don't have access to health care.

I gave an uninsured friend some of my left over birth control pills and a few months later she walked into an emergeny room worried she was going to kill herself.

Now, she was in law school at the time...
 
2012-12-14 11:58:00 AM  

Nabb1: The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.


Having seen the tribulations of what my various female friends have gone through to find the correct HBC, I'm firmly in the camp of having it be RX only (through PP or some gyn or whatever).

As other said, it should be a no-copay covered medication and we should have single payer anyway, but yeah, I really think that its a complex enough issue with enough patient education and variance needed that a Doc should be involved.
 
2012-12-14 11:58:34 AM  

what_now: Nabb1: what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists disagrees. Link

They're making the best of a bad situation. Women without health insurance should still have across to birth control, they say, and under the current situation, they are correct.

Lets solve the underlying problem of women who don't have access to health care.

I gave an uninsured friend some of my left over birth control pills and a few months later she walked into an emergeny room worried she was going to kill herself.

Now, she was in law school at the time...


Wait... you think a doctor should monitor birth control intake and you distributed some of your own prescription medication to another person?
 
2012-12-14 12:00:19 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Nabb1: The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.

Having seen the tribulations of what my various female friends have gone through to find the correct HBC, I'm firmly in the camp of having it be RX only (through PP or some gyn or whatever).

As other said, it should be a no-copay covered medication and we should have single payer anyway, but yeah, I really think that its a complex enough issue with enough patient education and variance needed that a Doc should be involved.


I'm sorry, is there anything that would prohibit a woman from speaking to her doctor about all this without the necessity of needing a prescription for the actual medication?
 
2012-12-14 12:02:43 PM  
Is this a ploy to get people to pay more out of pocket for birth control?
 
2012-12-14 12:04:49 PM  

Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1: what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists disagrees. Link

They're making the best of a bad situation. Women without health insurance should still have across to birth control, they say, and under the current situation, they are correct.

Lets solve the underlying problem of women who don't have access to health care.

I gave an uninsured friend some of my left over birth control pills and a few months later she walked into an emergeny room worried she was going to kill herself.

Now, she was in law school at the time...

Wait... you think a doctor should monitor birth control intake and you distributed some of your own prescription medication to another person?


Yes. I learned from that experience.
 
2012-12-14 12:05:36 PM  

Nabb1: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Nabb1: The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.

Having seen the tribulations of what my various female friends have gone through to find the correct HBC, I'm firmly in the camp of having it be RX only (through PP or some gyn or whatever).

As other said, it should be a no-copay covered medication and we should have single payer anyway, but yeah, I really think that its a complex enough issue with enough patient education and variance needed that a Doc should be involved.

I'm sorry, is there anything that would prohibit a woman from speaking to her doctor about all this without the necessity of needing a prescription for the actual medication?


No, but once something goes OTC people seem to think it's perfectly safe and has no side effects whatsoever. Realistically, who is going to pay for a doctor's appointment to talk about something that doesn't need a script?
 
2012-12-14 12:05:57 PM  

Nabb1: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Nabb1: The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.

Having seen the tribulations of what my various female friends have gone through to find the correct HBC, I'm firmly in the camp of having it be RX only (through PP or some gyn or whatever).

As other said, it should be a no-copay covered medication and we should have single payer anyway, but yeah, I really think that its a complex enough issue with enough patient education and variance needed that a Doc should be involved.

I'm sorry, is there anything that would prohibit a woman from speaking to her doctor about all this without the necessity of needing a prescription for the actual medication?


Yes. If she doesn't have a doctor because she can't afford healh insurance.
 
2012-12-14 12:10:47 PM  

what_now: There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC alcohol


And therefore we need the state involved in our lives at every turn. It's for our own good.
 
2012-12-14 12:11:25 PM  

trivial use of my dark powers: Nabb1: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Nabb1: The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.

Having seen the tribulations of what my various female friends have gone through to find the correct HBC, I'm firmly in the camp of having it be RX only (through PP or some gyn or whatever).

As other said, it should be a no-copay covered medication and we should have single payer anyway, but yeah, I really think that its a complex enough issue with enough patient education and variance needed that a Doc should be involved.

I'm sorry, is there anything that would prohibit a woman from speaking to her doctor about all this without the necessity of needing a prescription for the actual medication?

No, but once something goes OTC people seem to think it's perfectly safe and has no side effects whatsoever. Realistically, who is going to pay for a doctor's appointment to talk about something that doesn't need a script?


Exactly that. It's not that they're special because they're women, it's the people in general do not have the requisite knowledge to consider the contraindications for the one of 4 dozen HBC formulations they're taking (much less know what "contraindication means"), plus different people have different dosage levels that are effective for them, AND HBC can do nasty things like spike chloresterol and blood pressure, etc.

There's no part of this debate where it is safer or more effective from a medical standpoint to make it OTC than RX.

As someone else noted, this paper simply goes from the basis that there's a case to be made for better access, but Obamacare *provides* for that better access.

Jindal is just putting it forward because he thinks it's okay to endanger women's health in order to placate the religious nutjobs.
 
2012-12-14 12:12:49 PM  

what_now: Nabb1: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Nabb1: The objections to this seem more political than scientific, to me, anyway.

Having seen the tribulations of what my various female friends have gone through to find the correct HBC, I'm firmly in the camp of having it be RX only (through PP or some gyn or whatever).

As other said, it should be a no-copay covered medication and we should have single payer anyway, but yeah, I really think that its a complex enough issue with enough patient education and variance needed that a Doc should be involved.

I'm sorry, is there anything that would prohibit a woman from speaking to her doctor about all this without the necessity of needing a prescription for the actual medication?

Yes. If she doesn't have a doctor because she can't afford healh insurance.


And if she can't afford health insurance, then she can't get prescription birth control. Sudafed kills more people than birth control, and that's OTC. Sort of. Stupid tweakers. (Sudafed causes atrial fibrillation in some people.) I'm not going to presume to second guess the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists on this. If they think it's safe enough to go forward with it, I say go. I had the same concerns as you until very recently.
 
2012-12-14 12:15:23 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Is this a ploy to get people to pay more out of pocket for birth control?


The current state of affairs is a ploy to force women to pay for unnecessary doctor's visits.

Some of the really greedy doctors will add a pelvic exam to the bill regardless of its necessity, even though it's irrelevant to the issue of birth control.

Imagine if a male farker had to get a prostate exam and erectile function test in order to get a prescription for condoms.

Holding women's health hostage to intrusive medical procedures is okay long as it's not Republicans doing it, right?
 
2012-12-14 12:16:09 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Jindal is just putting it forward because he thinks it's okay to endanger women's health in order to placate the religious nutjobs.


You do know the Catholic Church's position on oral contraceptives, don't you?
 
2012-12-14 12:24:24 PM  

Gulper Eel: The current state of affairs is a ploy to force women to pay for unnecessary doctor's visits.

Imagine if a male farker had to get a prostate exam and erectile function test in order to get a prescription for condoms.


First of all, every woman should be able to see a gynecologist every year. I'm torn on the prescription birth control issue because not every woman can afford to see a gynecologist. However, the pill is not like a condom. I had a bad experience with it, and I'm glad I have insurance so I could see a gynecologist about it.
 
2012-12-14 12:28:29 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Is this a ploy to get people to pay more out of pocket for birth control?


does Torg love potatoes?
 
2012-12-14 12:29:40 PM  

Gulper Eel: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Jindal is just putting it forward because he thinks it's okay to endanger women's health in order to placate the religious nutjobs.

You do know the Catholic Church's position on oral contraceptives, don't you?


Being raised Catholic, yes. I also know that the overwhelming majority of Catholics either 1) use oral contraceptives (or other forms of birth control, and 2) most DNGAF.

Ground-level RCC is often very, very different than what the Vatican would like.
 
2012-12-14 12:30:46 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Ground-level RCC is often very, very different than what the Vatican would like.


That's the understatement of the week.
 
2012-12-14 12:30:51 PM  
I'm torn on the prescription birth control issue because not every woman can afford to see a gynecologist.

Exactly. While having OTC birth control might be the best solution right now, what we really need is single payer health care.
 
2012-12-14 12:31:47 PM  
Stupid phone.

Y U no quote Melissa??
 
2012-12-14 12:32:25 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Is this a ploy to get people to pay more out of pocket for birth control?


DING, DING, DING!!!
 
2012-12-14 12:32:36 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Being raised Catholic, yes. I also know that the overwhelming majority of Catholics either 1) use oral contraceptives (or other forms of birth control, and 2) most DNGAF.

Ground-level RCC is often very, very different than what the Vatican would like.


You weren't talking about ground-level RCC, you said specifically 'religious nutjobs'.

Cadinal Dolan will be against it in no uncertain terms.
 
2012-12-14 12:33:13 PM  

Gulper Eel: Some of the really greedy doctors will add a pelvic exam to the bill regardless of its necessity, even though it's irrelevant to the issue of birth control.


Has nothing to do with greed, it has to do with many folks who go in to get HBC rarely have them and *should*, so having one at that point of patient content is coincidentally advantageous to the person inquiring about HBC.

Not to mention there's a non-small number of folks who go for HBC *after* they actually should have, and going on HBC when unknowingly pregnant is, obviously, a recipe for potential disaster.
 
2012-12-14 12:34:04 PM  

Gulper Eel: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Being raised Catholic, yes. I also know that the overwhelming majority of Catholics either 1) use oral contraceptives (or other forms of birth control, and 2) most DNGAF.

Ground-level RCC is often very, very different than what the Vatican would like.

You weren't talking about ground-level RCC, you said specifically 'religious nutjobs'.

Cadinal Dolan will be against it in no uncertain terms.


Goin' pretty far to pick an argument on a Friday morning there, spanky.
 
2012-12-14 12:34:32 PM  
The New Orleans alt. weekly, The Gambit, recently had a headline reading "Turning on a Dime," denoting Jindal's future ambitions.

I'll give him this much - he can see the forest from the trees.

But this is the same man who diverted tax dollars to sectarian schools that were not held to the same standards as public ones. You know, DVDs about Jesus in lieu of actual teachers, windowless rooms, etc. He is also among the handful of Southern governors not implementing Meidcaire exchanges despite the extremely generous federal subsidy.

In short, he's an asshole. But I do look forward to him running for president just so I can sardonically call him "Piyush," in mockery of how his ilk are fond of Obama's middle name.

I don't trust people who convert their entire prior culture in order to be more mainstream.
 
2012-12-14 12:34:56 PM  

what_now: I'm torn on the prescription birth control issue because not every woman can afford to see a gynecologist.

Exactly. While having OTC birth control might be the best solution right now, what we really need is single payer health care.


Exactly, exactly. If I ran the US, no woman would ever pay a damn dime for BC, and she would have access to a gynecologist to consult about it.
 
2012-12-14 12:36:22 PM  

sweetmelissa31: First of all, every woman should be able to see a gynecologist every year. I'm torn on the prescription birth control issue because not every woman can afford to see a gynecologist. However, the pill is not like a condom. I had a bad experience with it, and I'm glad I have insurance so I could see a gynecologist about it.


Guys have latex allergies and spermicide allergies. They can have bad experiences with condoms too. Maybe they buy them a size too big because they got to the gym in 26 minutes that day and they felt like celebrating.

Therefore condoms should be prescription only because guys are too dumb and arrogant to figure out which kind is right for them and they need to see a handsomely-compensated expert or two.
 
2012-12-14 12:37:20 PM  
Agreed
 
2012-12-14 12:37:45 PM  
That would be Medicaid, sorry.
 
2012-12-14 12:39:39 PM  

what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

Now, we should have single payer healthcare and BC should be free, but someone needs to prescribe it.


I came into this thread to say the same thing.
 
2012-12-14 12:40:43 PM  
Hmmm....Hormonal contraception is best if prescribed and monitored. But this is a step. Maybe a baby step and maybe not quite in the right direction, but it is a step away from the "Stupid Party" of Gov. Jindal's prior statements. Maybe he can be reasonable and reasoned with.
 
2012-12-14 12:43:51 PM  

what_now: I actually disagree. Hormonal birth control should be monitored by a doctor. There can serious emotional and physical side effects from using BC, and a woman should be able to have a doctor prescribe and monitor her use, until they find the correct dosage.

Now, we should have single payer healthcare and BC should be free, but someone needs to prescribe it.


This is why you're farkied as 'entirely too sensible'.
 
2012-12-14 12:44:10 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: what_now: I'm torn on the prescription birth control issue because not every woman can afford to see a gynecologist.

Exactly. While having OTC birth control might be the best solution right now, what we really need is single payer health care.

Exactly, exactly. If I ran the US, no woman would ever pay a damn dime for BC, and she would have access to a gynecologist to consult about it.


So, you would have the government continue to control what a woman does with her body for the political sake of a larger entitlement agenda?
 
2012-12-14 12:44:30 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Has nothing to do with greed, it has to do with many folks who go in to get HBC rarely have them and *should*, so having one at that point of patient content is coincidentally advantageous to the person inquiring about HBC.


Now put yourself in the shoes of a woman in the one group where abortions have not been trending down in recent years: women in their 20's and 30's who already have at least one kid. Single moms in particular.

They've got enough on their plate without having to take a day off to sit in a doctor's office to get a ten-minute once-over and the almighty prescription.

Usage would go up tremendously if all the woman had to do was head down to a kiosk at the CVS and answer some simple questions.
 
2012-12-14 12:46:18 PM  
Jindal disfavors spending money to monitor anything beginning with the letter V.
 
2012-12-14 12:47:11 PM  

Gulper Eel: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Has nothing to do with greed, it has to do with many folks who go in to get HBC rarely have them and *should*, so having one at that point of patient content is coincidentally advantageous to the person inquiring about HBC.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a woman in the one group where abortions have not been trending down in recent years: women in their 20's and 30's who already have at least one kid. Single moms in particular.

They've got enough on their plate without having to take a day off to sit in a doctor's office to get a ten-minute once-over and the almighty prescription.

Usage would go up tremendously if all the woman had to do was head down to a kiosk at the CVS and answer some simple questions.


We can't have that, now can we?
 
2012-12-14 12:47:39 PM  

Nabb1: So, you would have the government continue to control what a woman does with her body for the political sake of a larger entitlement agenda?


The only control in that scenario would be by a physician. And they aren't the government.

I'm not a straw man.
 
2012-12-14 12:48:28 PM  

Gulper Eel: Usage would go up tremendously if all the woman had to do was head down to a kiosk at the CVS and answer some simple questions.


Usage is nice. Effective usage is better. Effective usage that is facilitated by a doctor who can discuss with her best usage and precautions, plus adjust dosage and formulation to best fit her body is best.

If you're so concerned about that demographic, you should 1) be fighting hard to universal implementation of Obamacare and 2) be pushing hard for extensive funding of Planned Parenthood so that your hypothetical individual in your cherrypicked demographic doesn't *have* to take the whole day off.
 
2012-12-14 12:52:00 PM  

Gulper Eel: They've got enough on their plate without having to take a day off to sit in a doctor's office to get a ten-minute once-over and the almighty prescription.


It is quite annoying to have to go to the gynecologist for my fix every time I want to have sex.
 
2012-12-14 12:52:10 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: Nabb1: So, you would have the government continue to control what a woman does with her body for the political sake of a larger entitlement agenda?

The only control in that scenario would be by a physician. And they aren't the government.

I'm not a straw man.


Are you or are you not in favor of making birth control medication available OTC? If the medical community is in favor, then the resistance to it is going to largely be political, which means by restricting women's access by legally requiring a prescription that doctors by and large believe is unnecessary from a medical standpoint, then you are placing a barrier to women that is based on a political agenda.
 
2012-12-14 12:52:16 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: Well, I kind of thought the same thing, but the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists thinks its safe enough to give OTC. Which kind of sways me to think it's probably okay. It would be behind the counter, and pharmacists would be there to answer questions and help them with the choices (ideally) refuse to give it to them for moral reasons.

 
2012-12-14 12:53:43 PM  

Relatively Obscure: hillbillypharmacist: Well, I kind of thought the same thing, but the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists thinks its safe enough to give OTC. Which kind of sways me to think it's probably okay. It would be behind the counter, and pharmacists would be there to answer questions and help them with the choices (ideally) refuse to give it to them for moral reasons.


How can a pharmacist refuse to give someone an OTC medication? Hide them in the back?
 
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