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2816 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Dec 2012 at 9:38 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-14 10:19:53 AM  
6 votes:

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Dimensio:
Tron Legacy was an action movie written with little regard for an understanding computer science.

Uh when was the last time you saw the first one? It has just as little regard


The first movie incorporated some basic understanding of computer technology and use at the time. Given general public understanding of computers, and given the writer's inexperience with computer systems, the result was acceptable. It created a sufficient framework for the writers of Tron 2.0 to build a more comprehensive universe created with a deeper understanding of computer systems and updated to technology of the era.

Tron Legacy made no effort to relate its "computer" world to reality. The "system" of the original Tron was a corporate mainframe and thus served the purpose that would be served by a mainframe. Programs in Tron had been written with definable purpose; Peter Jurasik's minor character was an actuaries calculator, Tron was a security application and Master Control had originally been written as a chess program. While the original purpose of every program was not known, enough initial background was provided to create a reason for a viewer to assume that a purpose for every program did exist, even if it was not stated.

In Tron Legay, the "system" had no tangible purpose; at no time was I able to discern Kevin Flynn's "purpose" for attempting to create a "perfect system". I inferred that he planned to relate the system to life in the real world somehow, but how this relationship would ever be established was never defined. I also never understood the purpose of any program within the system; whether Tron maintained his original purpose of being a security program or whether he took on a new purpose was never stated, and I never understood what purpose CLU was intended to serve apart from being an assistant of some sort to Kevin Flynn -- but without knowing what Flynn himself had intended to accomplish with his "system", I cannot even guess as to the means by which CLU would assist. No other purpose of any other program was stated or suggested either; the function of, as an example, Zeus/Castor was never defined nor implied.

Tron at least attempted to explore the concept of a world within a computer system. Tron Legacy made no effort to retain adherence to that concept; the computer world of Tron Legacy is at best an artifact of its source material.
2012-12-14 09:44:45 AM  
3 votes:
images.wikia.com

NO
2012-12-14 11:50:35 AM  
2 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Tron Legacy was the better of the two. Sorry. It's one of those films that if I flip across it on TV, I invariably find myself watching it through. The original is interesting, but just not as fun.

And as has been pointed out, Olivia Wilde + Daft Punk = so much farking win it's painful.


Here's the problem. If you didn't see the original in a theatre at its initial release you just can't "get" it. You have to understand that computers weren't as prevalent as they are today, and the people that had them were dealing with screen resolutions that were much worse then average smart phone of today. You also never saw computer generated images in a film, and that's what made the original so groundbreaking. At the time those cgi shots were absolutely breathtaking since you had never seen anything like that. It was like a glimpse of the future, and not only have we gotten that far we have surpassed it enough to where people who weren't there look at the movie and can't understand how old people get so worked up over it. For myself, the story, while also groundbreaking, wasn't really the star of the show it was the computer generated images. Well and the fact that my Dad took me and my brother to see it, and we were so blown away we just sat through to the next showing and watched it twice. Didn't buy more tickets, nothing, just sat there like the nerdy rebels we were.

When Tron Legacy came out I took Dad and bought tickets to sit through it twice. Not quite as rebellious, but it was a cool moment for both of us. I am sure I will do the same for the third movie as well. For the record, my 70 year old Dad is in love with the Daft Punk soundtrack on Legacy. I'm definitely a second generation nerd.
2012-12-14 11:29:44 AM  
2 votes:
The purpose of the grid is so that Flynn can play God

If you think about it, Flynn created a computer universe which he can sculpt and mold as he wishes. He can create programs that can think and feel for itself. He can come down from the real, physical world to visit and interact with his creation much like God. CLU, like Lucifer knew Flynn/God's plan for the universe, didn't like it, and tried to create his own version of the universe. CLU knew that there was another plain of reality and wanted to overtake that other reality much like Lucifer storming the gates of Heaven.

Also, like God, Flynn can fix damaged programs and correct any glitches basically he can eliminate all pain and suffering and create a paradise for his creations to live in. So, is Flynn an a$$hole? Because when he leaves the grid he can't fix damaged programs or glitches since he's not there physically. Doesn't he have an obligation to look after his creation? Is he a bad god?

There are programs that created themselves and come out of the darkness to the grid. Flynn didn't create them and wonders how they came into being. They are exterminated by CLU but if they created themselves it makes you wonder if they can ever really be destroyed forever as where do they really go after death?

Plus, can a User extend their natural life by living solely in the grid? Flynn said that minutes and hours in the real world was days and months in the grid. If a User's physical body is downloaded to the grid, can't someone go into their program and delete any undesired medical conditions? Say you have cancer, well download to the grid and live there for as long as it takes for someone in the reall world to adjust your program to eliminate all the cancer cells. You upload back to the real world in a new physical body that is now free of cancer. Remember how the laser thingee makes a users physical body disappear when downloading to the grid and reappear when uploading? Why can't it eliminate certain medical issues?
2012-12-14 10:09:54 AM  
2 votes:
Tron Legacy was the better of the two. Sorry. It's one of those films that if I flip across it on TV, I invariably find myself watching it through. The original is interesting, but just not as fun.

And as has been pointed out, Olivia Wilde + Daft Punk = so much farking win it's painful.
2012-12-14 09:48:49 AM  
2 votes:

ModernPrimitive01: Tron 2 was lame. Tron 1 was amazingly inventive and revolutionary. It sparked many a nerdy conversation and left you thinking about deeper issues. Tron 2 was an action movie with lots of neon


I wouldn't go so far as to call it lame. No, it wasn't as revolutionary as the original was, but it was a fun flick. Plus, Olivia Wilde and Beau Garrett in skin tight suits. Count me in for Tron 3, just bring back Quorra.
2012-12-14 09:47:59 AM  
2 votes:

ModernPrimitive01: Tron 2 was lame. Tron 1 was amazingly inventive and revolutionary. It sparked many a nerdy conversation and left you thinking about deeper issues. Tron 2 was an action movie with lots of neon


I disagree:

upload.wikimedia.org

Tron 2.0 was an enjoyable, even if not innovative, first-person shooter with a storyline that was faithful to its source material.

Tron Legacy was an action movie written with little regard for an understanding computer science. The only real reference to computer terminology was use of the word "primitives", and I am uncertain as to whether that was an intentional reference.
2012-12-14 09:47:07 AM  
2 votes:
The first one was like my favorite movie ever as a kid.

The second one was a really cool Daft Punk music video.

I have no interest in a third.
2012-12-14 09:43:23 AM  
2 votes:
A world with more Tron, good or lame is a world I want to live in.
2012-12-15 12:38:18 AM  
1 votes:
Dimensio really grasps the core of what fails in Legacy. It could have been much more than it was, and I have to think the writers did come up with a lot better plot lines with fewer holes and inconsistencies, but I choose to believe the iterative and collaborative process of movie-making is what fundamentally distorted this movie's world. They probably started with things making more sense and being simpler at the same time, but then you get "notes" from every shmuck with some skin in the game, and the resulting script changes are ... well. it's like the scene in Robocop when he's become overloaded with conflicting directives. When you write *good* sci -fi, you do it by first designing the world of the story and its mechanics, then using those rules to drive and steer the plot. This is not the usual Hollywood story development process.
2012-12-15 12:14:13 AM  
1 votes:

dickfreckle: Yes, I am a tremendous motorcycle nerd.


High five. Haven't owned a car since 1998.

thecpt: That scene makes me want to buy a motorcycle every time I watch it.


Get one! There is no better driving experience. Take it to a track, and learn how to get the most out of your machine.
One piece of advice though: If you decide to get rowdy, don't make Sam's mistake of cutting light traffic at 108mph. You need to keep it up above 130 to keep the cops off your back.

I am Wee Todd Ed: Did Flynn also create teleportation?

Send a laser thingee to mars and set it up with remote controlled robots. Download some astronauts/colonists here on Earth to the grid, upload them on Mars....boom...I just created teleportation and human space travel over incredible distances is now possible!!!


No, the laser system wasn't invented by Flynn. And no, that's not the way digitizing works in the Tron universe.

Not disintegrating, Alan -- digitizing. While the laser is dismantling the molecular structure of the object, the computer maps out a holographic model of it. The molecules themselves are suspended in the laser beam. Then the computer reads the model back out, the molecules go back into place, and...voila.

That's from the script; the actual quote from the film is slightly different.

yves0010: The whole concept of perfection was a minor subplot that was not really explored to its fullest.


The point that I found to be hammered home rather soundly is that Flynn's original idea of perfection was limited based on the knowledge and experience he had at the point when he created CLU. At the time, Flynn saw perfection as being something akin to "perfect order" or "perfect efficiency". CLU could never move beyond that idea, because even though he was as "intelligent" as Flynn was, he wasn't able to become "wise" for lack of a better word.

Flynn, having lived in the computer for 1000 years with nothing to do but ponder the question, is now essentially the wisest person who ever lived. His understanding of the paradox of "perfection containing imperfection" or perfection being a self-defeating concept, sets him apart from everyone, humans and programs alike. It also touches on the paradox of omnipotence, in that his creation (the Grid) gave rise to the spontaneous creation of beings whose complexity is beyond his own understanding (the ISOs).

Dimensio: Tron at least attempted to explore the concept of a world within a computer system. Tron Legacy made no effort to retain adherence to that concept; the computer world of Tron Legacy is at best an artifact of its source material.


You make some good points. The complaints that aren't legitimate have already been addressed by others, so I'll just say this: The movie paid some lip service to real geeks with Flynn's system clearly running an identifiable variant of UNIX, and Sam's use of real UNIX commands. Also here's a link that explains the idead behind some of the "hacking" stuff that flashed by and was probably taken as technobabble by most of the film's viewers.

I think they got all of this out of the way early in the film so that they could concentrate on larger philosophical ideas without having to force the digital world into some sort of tortured analogy. Tron was my favorite movie as a kid. I didn't enjoy T:L the first time through as much, but the more I've watched it and thought about, the happier with it I've become. The main reason I was able to re-watch it in the first place is that a) it's a straight-up visually beautiful film, b) I'm a motorcycle nerd, and c) Olivia Wilde's mix of power and fragility is something I find gripping.
2012-12-14 06:06:43 PM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: Dimensio:
Tron Legacy was an action movie written with little regard for an understanding computer science. [...] The first movie incorporated some basic understanding of computer technology and use at the time. [...] Tron Legacy made no effort to relate its "computer" world to reality...


This is right on target. I enjoyed Tron: Legacy but I felt it could have been a much better film, if they hadn't severed the connection with typical computers/programs and the things the users of the day are familiar with.

Back in '82, a lot of people would be familiar with dumb terminals, and a few would know something about PCs. Putting Tron in that setting made sense for that time. Showcasing the dopey disc-chucking and light cycle games made sense because they weren't too far off the crap you would find in video arcades of the day.

Tron: Legacy left all the nerdery behind and severed the characters from the slender threads connecting them to a real IT framework. Today, if some comp-sci grad is going to build "the perfect system" from the ground up, few people would do it using million-dollar mainframes (which have become a rarity, excepting transaction-heavy businesses like banks, insurance companies and retailers). It also wouldn't make much screenwriting sense; for the Average Joe today, a client-server model is more familiar. And if you're living in a client-server world, you're not going to be playing light cycles or disc-chucking games, you're going to be playing GTA or Warcraft or an FPS.

Anyway as previously said, I enjoyed Tron: Legacy, but I wish the writers had found a way to utilize current IT frameworks (and pastimes). That connection was part of how the original Tron tapped into the zeitgeist of its day. Keeping it locked into the outdated tech framework of a certain time renders it a little bit like modern Hamlet productions, where they stuff the actors in frilly 16th century slashed shirts, even though the people they portray lived a few hundred years before frilly shirts became the fashionable style.
2012-12-14 04:20:11 PM  
1 votes:

BAMFinator: I have never been happier to be proven wrong.


I know they touted the fact that it used computer generated graphics before it was out, and I also just found the link to the article about using the Atari 800 for some of the sounds. There's mention in there as well about computer generated graphics. As for the artwork that was done, have you seen the book "The Art of Tron" by Michael Bonifer? It's pretty amazing as well and explains quite a bit. Might have to pull it out and look through it this weekend.

Atari Connection Summer '82 PDF File. - It's on pages 12 and 13.
2012-12-14 12:26:37 PM  
1 votes:
Too much stuff which is not Olivia Wilde
2012-12-14 11:41:55 AM  
1 votes:

I am Wee Todd Ed: The purpose of the grid is so that Flynn can play God

If you think about it, Flynn created a computer universe which he can sculpt and mold as he wishes. He can create programs that can think and feel for itself. He can come down from the real, physical world to visit and interact with his creation much like God. CLU, like Lucifer knew Flynn/God's plan for the universe, didn't like it, and tried to create his own version of the universe. CLU knew that there was another plain of reality and wanted to overtake that other reality much like Lucifer storming the gates of Heaven.

Also, like God, Flynn can fix damaged programs and correct any glitches basically he can eliminate all pain and suffering and create a paradise for his creations to live in. So, is Flynn an a$$hole? Because when he leaves the grid he can't fix damaged programs or glitches since he's not there physically. Doesn't he have an obligation to look after his creation? Is he a bad god?

There are programs that created themselves and come out of the darkness to the grid. Flynn didn't create them and wonders how they came into being. They are exterminated by CLU but if they created themselves it makes you wonder if they can ever really be destroyed forever as where do they really go after death?

Plus, can a User extend their natural life by living solely in the grid? Flynn said that minutes and hours in the real world was days and months in the grid. If a User's physical body is downloaded to the grid, can't someone go into their program and delete any undesired medical conditions? Say you have cancer, well download to the grid and live there for as long as it takes for someone in the reall world to adjust your program to eliminate all the cancer cells. You upload back to the real world in a new physical body that is now free of cancer. Remember how the laser thingee makes a users physical body disappear when downloading to the grid and reappear when uploading? Why can't it eliminate cer ...


yarmarge.typepad.com
2012-12-14 11:31:47 AM  
1 votes:
As long as Daft Punk is involved again, DO WANT
2012-12-14 11:25:05 AM  
1 votes:
www.moviespad.com
In theory, this character has absolutely no idea what sex is. This alone makes Tron 3 a worthy endeavour.

/I would so tongue punch her USB port.
2012-12-14 10:28:55 AM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Dimensio:
Tron Legacy was an action movie written with little regard for an understanding computer science.

Uh when was the last time you saw the first one? It has just as little regard

The first movie incorporated some basic understanding of computer technology and use at the time. Given general public understanding of computers, and given the writer's inexperience with computer systems, the result was acceptable. It created a sufficient framework for the writers of Tron 2.0 to build a more comprehensive universe created with a deeper understanding of computer systems and updated to technology of the era.

Tron Legacy made no effort to relate its "computer" world to reality. The "system" of the original Tron was a corporate mainframe and thus served the purpose that would be served by a mainframe. Programs in Tron had been written with definable purpose; Peter Jurasik's minor character was an actuaries calculator, Tron was a security application and Master Control had originally been written as a chess program. While the original purpose of every program was not known, enough initial background was provided to create a reason for a viewer to assume that a purpose for every program did exist, even if it was not stated.

In Tron Legay, the "system" had no tangible purpose; at no time was I able to discern Kevin Flynn's "purpose" for attempting to create a "perfect system". I inferred that he planned to relate the system to life in the real world somehow, but how this relationship would ever be established was never defined. I also never understood the purpose of any program within the system; whether Tron maintained his original purpose of being a security program or whether he took on a new purpose was never stated, and I never understood what purpose CLU was intended to serve apart from being an assistant of some sort to Kevin Flynn -- but without knowing what Flynn himself had intended to accomplish with his "system", I cannot ...


I desperately wanted to diss you with some kinda "cool story bro" comment, but I must admit you have a point. The plot points regarding the computer world itself are very, very vague in the sequel...
2012-12-14 10:04:27 AM  
1 votes:
The second Tron movie sucked donkey balls, like they tried to make it all Matrix-y and failed miserably. It showed a complete lack of imagination and creativity. The original at least had that.
2012-12-14 09:57:17 AM  
1 votes:
www.wallpapershdi.com

1.bp.blogspot.com
2012-12-14 09:42:04 AM  
1 votes:
Tron 2 was lame. Tron 1 was amazingly inventive and revolutionary. It sparked many a nerdy conversation and left you thinking about deeper issues. Tron 2 was an action movie with lots of neon
 
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