o5iiawah: Wal-Mart's job as a business is to pay its employees a fair market rate for their labor, not to be a conduit to fulfill the lifestyle expectations of its employees.
o5iiawah: Minimum wage sets a floor for labor such that a company who has a $6/hr position either has to deduct pay from others to fill the need for the position or not hire the person altogether.
Free Radical: career choice
ox45tallboy: He said "competitive" wage, as in "it's about what everyone else in the industry pays". I don't think even $18.7 million would be enough for him to keep a straight face while calling it a "living wage".When you ARE the industry, you are setting the standard, and everyone else competes against you. If they were to raise their wages, other retail stores would follow suit. But that extra $0.03 /share each quarter nets him another $2 million bonus*, so why bother? The people will work for crap.This is the biggest problem with Capitalism - there is absolutely no incentive to make others' lives better, and every incentive to take advantage of your position to make others' lives worse, even when it is for a comparatively tiny benefit to yourself. (I'm sure I would notice the difference between $16 million / year and $18 million, but not NEARLY as much as I would notice the difference between $18K and $25K.)*these numbers have been pulled out of my ass. Please feel free to substitute real numbers I don't feel like looking up right now and I guarantee that my point will still stand
MugzyBrown: The term living wage is idiotic.You can live off $6/hr working only 40 hours a week unless you make stupid life decisions... yes even in the city.
Giltric: It all depends on how motivated or hungry someone is.....
Fizpez: I detest WalMart in almost every single way but how much should a zero skill position pay? If you ignore health care I could probably "live" on about $8/hr. That means keeping myself alive, getting to work and going home. And that's about it.Somewhere between that and "Walmart needs to pay their cashiers enough to support a family of 4 in a middle class lifestyle" is the problem.
o5iiawah: An individual can eat, sleep, pay utilities and participate in the employee benefits plan.go on welfare on the taxpayer's dime.
o5iiawah: If said individual chooses to take on more life responsibilities, they incur a personal burden to acquire market skills to pay for them.
ox45tallboy: Please feel free to substitute real numbers I don't feel like looking up right now
GoldSpider: ox45tallboy: See: Europe, almost the entire continent.Indeed, a shining example of fiscal sustainability.
slayer199: DirkValentine: Oh, really? name a couple of these programs and then let me know how to live a decent life on them.Also - you are LUCKY to have made it through the bar/pizza thing to IT and then continue to move up. I guess you didn't have any sort of medical emergency (or did you have insurance?). Like you said, it only took two years of working 70 hours a week. Surely everyone is capable of that, right?Your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shiat and the fact that you are using your life story as a reason that people that don't "make it" are lazy, shiftless losers only speaks to your own selfish, ignorant mindset.No medical.Yes, there are plenty of people that are lazy and shiftless losers. I've worked with them, I've bumped into them, and I know more people like me...that worked overtime without pay...just for the experience and to build our reputations. I like to think everyone is capable...not as many willing.Sergeant Grumbles: You started so well, and then you blamed the poor for being poor.It it possible? Yes. Is it hard? Yes. Is the difficulty justified? No.And it's harder today. Don't give me this 18 years ago crap. 1994 was a golden age compared to today.I didn't start so well...working 2 minimum wage jobs and paying child support....was not fun.I don't blame the poor for being poor. I blame them for ACCEPTING it. At some point the poor need to take responsibility for their situation. They accept it...and people like you are willing to give them excuses.Where is society's responsibility? To help those that are physically and mentally incapable of helping themselves AND providing them with an education. That means ending social promotion. That means teaching critical thinking...challenging students. That means NOT teaching to a standardized test. That means every student should be able to read and write at grade level upon graduation.It is harder today. Harder for college graduates to get experience.Philip Francis Queeg: You ...
slayer199: Sergeant Grumbles: And no one with kids ever loses their good job and still has to make ends meet.Yes about 18 years ago, I had to make a career change and I had no idea what I was going to do. I worked 2 jobs (bartending and pizza delivery) and averaged about 70 hours a week. I rented a house with a roommate and was paying child support while I interviewed for a number of tech-based jobs. I did that for 2 years. Once I got my first IT job (at $12/hr), I kept moving up...learning new skills, changing jobs fairly frequently, and finishing my college degree.Is it possible? Yes. Is it damn hard? Yes. Point is that there are many people that are willing to settle....and way too many people willing to let people settle.
tbhouston: If you don't feel you get paid enough to push buttons of move boxes around....GET A BETTER JOB OR MAYBE A SKILL
MugzyBrown: making just over minimum wage I had 3 roomates in a 2 bedroom apartment. Splitting rent and utilities and basic food 4 ways makes i
DirkValentine: slayer199: Giltric: People either go out and get a 2nd job to pay for classes that might increase their skillset or they sit around waiting for someone else to make that happen for them.At some point people need to be personally responsible for themselves. It's not the government's job to give them more money (despite what some may think), nor is it a company's responsibility to pay them a "living wage." If you can make more money compliments of minimum wage hikes without obtaining a valuable skill or improving your education, where is the incentive to better yourself?The minimum wage is a crutch, not an incentive.And what do you suggest for people that have little skills, have had little to no exposure to a decent education (or are well below average IQ), have been laid off and need work to live?
MugzyBrown: WhyteRaven74: Which is great unless you happen to have kidsSounds like a poor life decision to have kids if you're making $6 per hour
MugzyBrown: Splitting rent and utilities and basic food 4 ways makes it pretty damn cheap.
DirkValentine: A question that i like to ask (well, used to ask. I've since given up FB conversations with these people i'm going to refer to) is simply : "Do you think that someone that works 35+ hours a week deserves basic healthcare?"The responses, quite literally, made me sad enough to just about cry. Or throw the computer out the window. Or stop talking to them.
kregh99: I am all for being paid a living wage, but not for doing a job that requires almost zero in the way of skills. Those jobs should pay shiat wages. shiat wages fuels the desire to not work shiat jobs.Stay in school, kids. Stay in school.
Dr Dreidel: In order to participate in Walmart's employee benefits plan, don't you have to work a full 40-hour week? Haven't they made a habit out of scheduling 35-hour weeks so that employees aren't eligible?
o5iiawah: If wal-mart paid cart wranglers $6/hr instead of $7.25, they might be able to hire a few more of them and some high school kids and low income individuals would gain market skills otherwise.
o5iiawah: An individual can eat, sleep, pay utilities and participate in the employee benefits plan.
o5iiawah: theurge14: o5iiawah: Wal-Mart's job as a business is to pay its employees a fair market rate for their labor, not to be a conduit to fulfill the lifestyle expectations of its employees.And by fair market you mean a revolving door of minimum wage automatons who have no other choice in their town because Walmart ran off all the other stores and they need (not want) to buy from the same store because their lifestyle expectations of paying rent and eating ramen noodles require it. In short, elimination of a middle class.Wal-Mart didn't run the jobs out. People willingly shopped there versus smaller stores. Dont like it? Take it up with your county executive who approved the permit.
o5iiawah: As far as the minimum wage job goes, thank the minimum wage. Wal-Mart might be willing to pay employees on a skill scale but those who do have skills are making the same wage as those who dont thanks to the price floor of labor. The guy who unloads trucks or prepares returns for processing has more market skills than the guy who stands at the front door and says, "Welcome to Wal-Mart, I love you" yet both are paid the same because heaven forbid one be paid $5/hr and the other $10. You'll both be paid $7.50 and like it.
theurge14: So you've never heard of Whole Foods?
theurge14: o5iiawah: Wal-Mart's job as a business is to pay its employees a fair market rate for their labor, not to be a conduit to fulfill the lifestyle expectations of its employees.And by fair market you mean a revolving door of minimum wage automatons who have no other choice in their town because Walmart ran off all the other stores and they need (not want) to buy from the same store because their lifestyle expectations of paying rent and eating ramen noodles require it. In short, elimination of a middle class.
Giltric: Instead of using some arbitrary term like living wage why doesn;t anyone calculate what living expenses should be......Should Walmart be paying a low skilled laborer enough money to buy a 300k$ house on a 30 year mortgage?In all honesty shouldn't someone be looking for a job that pays them enough to buy that 300k house instead of expecting their walmart job to bump them up to that level?
bingethinker: Alpo? They can afford brand name dog food? Luxury!
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