DrewCurtisJr: theurge14: So you've never heard of Whole Foods?Your example proves my point. How many U.S. employees does Whole Foods have compared to Walmart? And the 2 don't exactly compete for the same market.
K.B.O. Winston: Um, Aldi's does though.
slayer199: An honest answer to that question is yes, I think most people of average intelligence can do it if given a fair opportunity.
rugman11: My question is how do you define "living wage"? I mean this in all seriousness. Should a living wage allow a person to buy a house? To rent on their own? To support themselves only or to support a spouse or raise a family too?
kregh99: I am all for being paid a living wage, but not for doing a job that requires almost zero in the way of skills. Those jobs should pay shiat wages. shiat wages fuels the desire to not work shiat jobs.Stay in school, kids. Stay in school.
liam76: MugzyBrown: The term living wage is idiotic.You can live off $6/hr working only 40 hours a week unless you make stupid life decisions... yes even in the city.Like getting sick.Like having to help a sick family member.Like being the victim of a crime.Etc.
bbfreak: I was thinking on the issue further and I really don't think its a sustainable workforce. Those of you saying that they should simply get another job don't seem to realize that the low income work force is growing is already stands at 23.8 percent of the overall work force. That is a lot of people who can't afford basic healthcare, including mental healthcare. That does not bode well for our society on a whole.
Kimothy: Maybe 10 bucks an hour is a living wage in Benton, Arkansas, but in the rest of the US, that's a wage for part-time high school students.
cig-mkr: Smith's numbers could be a bit off.Smith's numbers could be a bit off. Equilar, an executive compensation research firm, calculates that Duke earned just south of $20 million in 2009 and $28 million in 2008, not counting millions of dollars in potential performance awards.
Philip Francis Queeg: That's right. People are tools without intrinsic value, as I said. Do you care when you throw away a hammer? Of course not. Should you care if one of you human tools dies because they weren't useful enough? Certainly not. If you intervene it might have a bad effect on the other human tools. We need to stop being concerned about the basic needs of human tools.I truly hope your employer has valued you properly and that you aren't destroying this nation by getting a "hand out" from them because they have overvalued you or considered you as anything worthy of more concern than an office chair.
o5iiawah: You're adding emotion into an argument of numbers, facts and analysis.All well and good for you but you should probably leave the adults alone to talk about grownup things.
FarkedOver: Now let's flip the script. Would employees make more than $0 without owners and corporate officers??Why YES! YES THEY WOULD!! Imagine that! A worker does not need an owner!! HOLY SHIAT! What a revelation!
nekulor: I can barely support me in school on that, let alone a family.
Sergeant Grumbles: There are people that think Wal-Mart should only employ teenagers in need of gas money and everyone else who works there any older, for any other reason, made a conscious choice to ruin their own lives and should been punished for it forever.
o5iiawah: FarkedOver: Now let's flip the script. Would employees make more than $0 without owners and corporate officers??Why YES! YES THEY WOULD!! Imagine that! A worker does not need an owner!! HOLY SHIAT! What a revelation!In the absence of a location which was scouted by a surveyor and marketing team, a building which was erected from profits earned by other stores, inventory which was trucked in via vehicles owned by the company and a management team to organize the operation, please explain how a person standing in a vacant lot saying "Welcome to Wal-Mart" can earn a wage.nekulor: I can barely support me in school on that, let alone a family.So you should probably get a better job before starting a family.Sergeant Grumbles: There are people that think Wal-Mart should only employ teenagers in need of gas money and everyone else who works there any older, for any other reason, made a conscious choice to ruin their own lives and should been punished for it forever.No, we just realize that if a person wants a house in the burbs, a couple of cars, 4 happy, healthy kids with college paid for, a vacation once in a while and top-notch healthcare, they probably arent going to get it at wal-mart and that if they seek those things, they should understand that it probably comes with learning skills in the marketplace. Wipe away your tears and lets talk economics. Sorry i makes you cry but this is the real world. Boo Hoo. fark YOU POORS I GOT MINE
ghare: fark YOU POORS I GOT MINEYes, sweetie, go ahead and hate them. They're not really people, after all. If they were PEOPLE, why they'd be rich! They were all born smart enough to be doctors, they just preferred to be poor. Evidence of their non-humanity, I completely agree, just pure laziness. Can't we sell them somewhere or something? I mean REALLY, they have a lot of nerve.
Philip Francis Queeg: slayer199: Sergeant Grumbles: And no one with kids ever loses their good job and still has to make ends meet.Yes about 18 years ago, I had to make a career change and I had no idea what I was going to do. I worked 2 jobs (bartending and pizza delivery) and averaged about 70 hours a week. I rented a house with a roommate and was paying child support while I interviewed for a number of tech-based jobs. I did that for 2 years. Once I got my first IT job (at $12/hr), I kept moving up...learning new skills, changing jobs fairly frequently, and finishing my college degree.Is it possible? Yes. Is it damn hard? Yes. Point is that there are many people that are willing to settle....and way too many people willing to let people settle. As for those with lesser IQs or physical ailments, we already have government programs designed to help them. For those that aren't willing to do what's necessary to get ahead...that's not my problem. Yes, I got mine so screw them...because I farking earned it.Tell, us do you spit on the guy who delivers your Pizza so he knows what a loser you think he is? Do you tell all the people at the stores you shop at how superior you are and what pathetic scum they are.? It seems it's the responsibility of an elite like you to make sure that the low lifes who labor to serve your needs know how unworthy they are.
o5iiawah: Wipe away your tears and lets talk economics.
Sergeant Grumbles: cig-mkr: Smith's numbers could be a bit off.Smith's numbers could be a bit off. Equilar, an executive compensation research firm, calculates that Duke earned just south of $20 million in 2009 and $28 million in 2008, not counting millions of dollars in potential performance awards.Okay, so two hours. Is that the magical line where it all becomes okay to make what your employees make in a year?
Sergeant Grumbles: And the half that are below average intelligence?
ltdanman44: I can agree with some of your statement. You talk about fair opportunity and most people if given an opportunity would climb out of being poor. I would agree. The problem nowadays is that opportunity is not there or available at all. Those who would excel and thrive are met with closed doors instead of open ones. What then I ask?The problem with your thinking is that in your mind you say "Since I've made it, so can you! You just have to work at it! Look at me! I am living proof!" There are some people who have worked at it most of lives with nothing to show for it, but I'm pretty sure you would think they didn't try hard enough and that was the reason for their failures in life.
Philip Francis Queeg: What strawman? The minimum wage is a "hand out" that's destroying the country, right?
slayer199: Are you implying that people of less than average intellience, can't learn a trade that pays more than minimum wage? So by your estimation, we need to support half the population because in your mind they're unable to support themselves.
slayer199: You've completely eliminated personal responsibility from the equation and basically told people, "You haven't earned it with your meager skills and you don't need to learn new skills or education, but we're going to throw more money at you because you need money to live on."
max_pooper: Giltric: Instead of using some arbitrary term like living wage why doesn;t anyone calculate what living expenses should be......Should Walmart be paying a low skilled laborer enough money to buy a 300k$ house on a 30 year mortgage?In all honesty shouldn't someone be looking for a job that pays them enough to buy that 300k house instead of expecting their walmart job to bump them up to that level?How many chigger bites did you get building that strawman?
Giltric: liam76: You "earned it" by being lucky. Lucky not to have the things I mentioned aboveWhy is he lucky? Why arent those people unlucky?Are you trying to claim that paying child support, being sole caretaker and getting cancer all at the same time is the norm?
DrewCurtisJr: liam76: Is anyone talking about outlawing them?No. But if you say just give everyone a raise and it causes prices to rise I think it's been established that if people can find lower prices elsewhere they will spend there money there, because they just can't help being exploited by being offered rock bottom prices.So it's not so simple
Howlin Mad Murphy: How can anyone argue for the mega corporations in situations like this and keep a straight face? Do you really believe that the majority of the wealth in this country should be in the hands of very few people? Or, are you still following that carrot on a stick that is the American Dream, thinking one day you will be at the top? No matter how menial you feel their job is, with no one to run the registers or stock the shelves Walmart doesn't make a dime. Therefore, the people who keep the money flowing should get a fair share of the profits, at least enough to live without government assistance and to be able to afford healthcare. America will continue it's downward spiral until we either fix this problem or the poor finally have enough and start a revolution. I doubt the people who are defending the corporations now will be singing the same tune if the poor do rise up against the rich are willing to stop shopping on price alone and be more intelligent consumers.
Sergeant Grumbles: o5iiawah: Wipe away your tears and lets talk economics.I'm not talking economics with anyone who thinks hiring someone new lowers the wages of everyone else. If I'm crying, it's out of pity.
liam76: If everyone was paid more (including their competition) that effect on their prices wouldn't matter.
SDRR: Hyperbolic much? It isn't that complicated
DrewCurtisJr: liam76: If everyone was paid more (including their competition) that effect on their prices wouldn't matter.You think online retailers have the same kinds of staffing costs as traditional retailers?
o5iiawah: Again, you're disagreeing and pouting but you cant break the argument.
liam76: They aren't Wal-Mart's big competitor.
Sergeant Grumbles: slayer199: Are you implying that people of less than average intellience, can't learn a trade that pays more than minimum wage? So by your estimation, we need to support half the population because in your mind they're unable to support themselves.Mighty fine strawman. Almost distracted me from those moving goalposts.slayer199: An honest answer to that question is yes, I think most people of average intelligence can do it if given a fair opportunity.Your words. Answer the question instead of making up fabricating my position.
Sergeant Grumbles: You've completely eliminated personal responsibility from the equation by allowing work to pay too little to live on. With neither the means nor ability to move up, anyone of any intelligence rightly stops giving a fark. And yet blowhards troll in and tell people to demean themselves, starve themselves, give every moment of their time to some employer, start a business with the money they don't have, get an education with the money they don't have.If you want people to take responsibility, you have to give them a reasonable way to do so. Telling people it's possible for someone of average intelligence if they make all the right choices, make no mistakes, and stay healthy long enough just isn't good enough. For the richest country in the world, it's appalling.
Sergeant Grumbles: But here we're talking about minimum wage and Wal-Mart, where workers bring in value far exceeding their pay
o5iiawah: Sergeant Grumbles: But here we're talking about minimum wage and Wal-Mart, where workers bring in value far exceeding their payYou may feel as though the compensation is unfair, but who are you to actually know what IS a fair wage, or what each position at wal-mart should make according to how much value they deliver to the company? I'll give you the chance though to explain how much value a greeter, bagger or stock person brings to wal-mart and why their wage is unfair. Thus far, all the arguments for wage have been on the side of need-based or that the wage ought to provide a certain lifestyle where the very definition of a wage has nothing to do with fulfilling a lifestyle expectation.
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