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(LA Times)   Wait, you mean that, as a judge, I should not tell rape victims they should have fought harder? Was that wrong?   (latimesblogs.latimes.com) divider line 324
    More: Dumbass, rape victim, judicial misconduct, Admonition  
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10682 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2012 at 8:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 08:16:05 PM  
I hope one day someone slips a sausage in his bun and then whisper in his ear as the man makes sweet, sweet love to him, "you should have fought harder. Also, the fat on your ass is a pretty damn comfy cushion"
 
2012-12-13 08:28:49 PM  
"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?
 
2012-12-13 08:44:47 PM  
"If somebody doesn't want to have intercourse,the body shuts down...."

*Closes eyes* Oh shiat.....It's communicable!
 
2012-12-13 08:49:39 PM  

Apos: "If somebody doesn't want to have intercourse,the body shuts down...."

*Closes eyes* Oh shiat.....It's communicable!



And of course, he receives what amounts to little more than a slap on the wrist for this. Farking sick.
 
2012-12-13 08:56:16 PM  

Apos: And of course, he receives what amounts to little more than a slap on the wrist for this. Farking sick.


Hey, it's God's Will, alright?
 
2012-12-13 08:57:32 PM  
What the hell is wrong with people?
 
2012-12-13 08:58:34 PM  
Reminds me of one one of the funniest/going straight to hell for laughing at Onion headlines. 'Baby born with cancer turns out not to be much of a fighter.'
 
2012-12-13 08:59:07 PM  
Wow, just wow.
 
2012-12-13 08:59:22 PM  
"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."


Execute him.
 
2012-12-13 08:59:56 PM  
Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.
 
2012-12-13 09:00:06 PM  

Apos: "If somebody doesn't want to have intercourse,the body shuts down...."

*Closes eyes* Oh shiat.....It's communicable!


Sigh.... I have to post this ad AGAIN?
 
2012-12-13 09:00:26 PM  
"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted"

img141.imageshack.us


Maybe it wasn't legitimate rape.
 
2012-12-13 09:01:53 PM  

freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.


Rape him.
 
2012-12-13 09:02:28 PM  
Mere mortals can hurt God's feelings.
 
2012-12-13 09:02:31 PM  

freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.


No, throw him in jail, in the general prisoner community, for about 5 years. Then ask him for his opinion on rape.
 
2012-12-13 09:03:42 PM  

Molavian: Rape him.


Shall it be "technical rape," "legitimate rape," "God's Will rape," "Rape Rape," or some other type?
 
2012-12-13 09:03:48 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Apos: And of course, he receives what amounts to little more than a slap on the wrist for this. Farking sick.

Hey, it's God's Will, alright?


I've heard He works in mysterious ways, so perhaps misguided buffoonery like this serves an important purpose,though I'll be damned if I know what that is.
 
2012-12-13 09:05:25 PM  
Does enjoyment mean consent?
 
2012-12-13 09:05:30 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Molavian: Rape him.

Shall it be "technical rape," "legitimate rape," "God's Will rape," "Rape Rape," or some other type?


Many more to come...50 shades of rape perhaps?
 
2012-12-13 09:06:26 PM  
So, can you get disbarred for not thinking crimes are real?
 
2012-12-13 09:06:37 PM  
Just read this outloud to the coworkers in my area of the office. The guy sitting next to me actually got out of his chair, "What the fark?! Where did this happen?!?!" The women here are just shaking their heads and sighing. It's the guys who seemed to be outraged.

But seriously... When is this dumb shiat going to stop? It's like these guys went to bed in 1952 and just woke up today to find the world changed. Seriously... I don't get how this kind of nonsense persists in modern America. Someone please explain?
 
2012-12-13 09:07:18 PM  

ciberido: Apos: "If somebody doesn't want to have intercourse,the body shuts down...."

*Closes eyes* Oh shiat.....It's communicable!

Sigh.... I have to post this ad AGAIN?


Wow. I'm not sure whether to chuckle or grimace after watching that.
 
2012-12-13 09:07:29 PM  
I don't know about you, but nothing gets me hornier than the threat of facial disfigurement via a hot screwdriver.
 
2012-12-13 09:08:10 PM  
Well I guess we should establish a metric to measure the "fightiness" of a victim. Perhaps someone should contact the The Office of Weights and Measures.
 
2012-12-13 09:10:10 PM  
i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-13 09:10:59 PM  

NativeDaughter: Seriously... I don't get how this kind of nonsense persists in modern America. Someone please explain?


Well creationists, birthers, and flat earthers still exist. You can't really be that surprised.
 
2012-12-13 09:12:16 PM  
Geeze, you'd think he told her she should have relaxed and tried to enjoy it. Telling women they should fight is not a bad thing.

She didn't enjoy it, did she?
/ducks and runs...
 
2012-12-13 09:12:42 PM  
From TFA

On the day he raped her, prosecutors said, Gurel had threatened to mutilate her face and vagina with a heated screwdriver.

Of course she didn't put up a fight, HE WAS GOING TO BURN HER EYES AND/OR CLIT OUT WITH HEATED METAL IF SHE DID!


And people wonder why I participated in the SlutWalk.
 
2012-12-13 09:13:16 PM  

Molavian: freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.

Rape him.


With a chainsaw.
 
2012-12-13 09:13:33 PM  
June 2008

Holy shiat, you can't even give him the benefit of the doubt of being brainwashed by right-wing media. He really is just that stupid.
 
2012-12-13 09:13:58 PM  

MeanJean: From TFA

On the day he raped her, prosecutors said, Gurel had threatened to mutilate her face and vagina with a heated screwdriver.

Of course she didn't put up a fight, HE WAS GOING TO BURN HER EYES AND/OR CLIT OUT WITH HEATED METAL IF SHE DID!


And people wonder why I participated in the SlutWalk.


Actually, sweetheart, no one wondered that at all.
 
2012-12-13 09:15:05 PM  

ciberido: Sigh.... I have to post this ad AGAIN?


Giggity
 
2012-12-13 09:15:26 PM  
Yeah. I get where he's coming from.
 
2012-12-13 09:17:09 PM  

Silly Jesus: Does enjoyment mean consent?


You suck at this.
 
2012-12-13 09:17:53 PM  
What...

Just wow. Wow.
 
2012-12-13 09:19:09 PM  
fark you, asshole.
 
2012-12-13 09:20:20 PM  
Man, that sounds like a line a rapist would use. No means no dude. I hope this dude gets gang-raped by a pack of big foots.
 
2012-12-13 09:21:26 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Molavian: Rape him.

Shall it be "technical rape," "legitimate rape," "God's Will rape," "Rape Rape," or some other type?


Unlubricated.
 
2012-12-13 09:21:29 PM  

lackadaisicalfreakshow: What the hell is wrong with people?


Judges, and other people in authority, are usually two generations removed from current civilised thinking.
 
2012-12-13 09:21:32 PM  

freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.


with rape
 
2012-12-13 09:23:26 PM  
"I'm not a gynecologist..." That, right there? That's where the thought process should have ended, Sir.

/situation is not unbelievable.
//but still... farking unbelievable.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:34 PM  

Goetz: Silly Jesus: Does enjoyment mean consent?

You suck at this.


It's not even his first attempt, either.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:54 PM  
You know, i don't want this guy raped, but I'd really like him to feel the fear of that possibility.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:54 PM  
So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?
 
2012-12-13 09:25:42 PM  
For the record, I have no problem using a dull rusty chainsaw on the rapist's junk, then dip it in alcohol.
 
2012-12-13 09:27:15 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?


He doesn't sound like he knew too many facts himself.

Also, Welcome to Fark
 
2012-12-13 09:27:27 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.


Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

Maybe you should go join him on the Group W bench.
 
2012-12-13 09:31:01 PM  
Well I guess it's time for Slutwalk 2: Electric Boogaloo.
 
2012-12-13 09:32:00 PM  

Goetz: Silly Jesus: Does enjoyment mean consent?

You suck at this.


I take you seriously.
 
2012-12-13 09:32:32 PM  

Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?


No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.
 
2012-12-13 09:34:33 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?


No, no. We're judging him based on the fact that he was either willfully ignorant of or doesn't believe in facts. Crazy, I know. Also, for completely making a bunch of shiat up. Vaginas aren't magic, they are not capable of shutting down in response to any kind of physical trauma... and even if they were, that doesn't change the fact that a forcible, violent act was being performed in order to create said traumatic event.

In short, we're judging him because he's utterly unqualified to hear cases concerning anything more serious than a parking violation. Really, he should be removed from the bench, as someone with such out-of-date, ridiculous ideas does not need to be anywhere near a courtroom. Or other human beings, for that matter.
 
2012-12-13 09:34:47 PM  

ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.


Who's done better?
 
2012-12-13 09:35:25 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.


well you could let the other fellows out of prison so they could run things.
 
2012-12-13 09:36:06 PM  

ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.


I guess non-whites and women should have won more wars over the last 5 centuries.
 
2012-12-13 09:36:31 PM  

ciberido: Apos: "If somebody doesn't want to have intercourse,the body shuts down...."

*Closes eyes* Oh shiat.....It's communicable!

Sigh.... I have to post this ad AGAIN?


First time I've seen it.
This was awesome.
 
2012-12-13 09:37:52 PM  
Rape taxnomony thread! Next week: fruits and vegetables. Be careful with the tomato and don't drop the soap.

/ Rape is rape. You unbelievable farkers.
 
2012-12-13 09:38:33 PM  
If I can send food to starving kids simply by clicking links enough, why can't I fire dumbasses the same way?
 
2012-12-13 09:38:51 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


Actually, sweetheart, no one wondered that at all.

You're seriously going to drag your whiny butthurt from the thread about the black woman's haircut into a thread about a rape victim being threatened with mutilation? You're racist and misogynist.

By the way, I do sleep around. I openly admit to it. I like to fark and i like to fark multiple people. So trying to insult me by calling me a slut is one big fail.

Welcome to ignore.
 
2012-12-13 09:40:20 PM  

MeanJean: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


Actually, sweetheart, no one wondered that at all.

You're seriously going to drag your whiny butthurt from the thread about the black woman's haircut into a thread about a rape victim being threatened with mutilation? You're racist and misogynist.

By the way, I do sleep around. I openly admit to it. I like to fark and i like to fark multiple people. So trying to insult me by calling me a slut is one big fail.

Welcome to ignore.


You sound pleasant.
 
2012-12-13 09:40:55 PM  

Lsherm: This is Todd Akin's argument.


This sounds like his cousin.
 
2012-12-13 09:41:20 PM  

Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?


"Not a gynecologist"? You... don't... say.

The body "shuts down"? And somehow, what, the vagina closes up and disappears? Is there some sort of zipper here they didn't tell me about in health class? WTF?
 
2012-12-13 09:42:26 PM  
F*ck you, judge.

BTW, you're supposed to tell the Arizona Cardinals that they should have fought harder.
 
2012-12-13 09:42:55 PM  
Could a lawyer use this in a future case to demonstrate bias and demand a new judge? Could a lawyer use this for an older case on appeal to demonstrate bias and get a mistrial?

/Just curious if this could actually amount to more than a shaming
 
2012-12-13 09:43:19 PM  

Silly Jesus: ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.

Who's done better?


6/10 Almost got me.
 
2012-12-13 09:43:20 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?


Give me any context in which the following is acceptable:

"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."
 
2012-12-13 09:46:01 PM  
I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.
 
2012-12-13 09:46:12 PM  

MeanJean: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


Actually, sweetheart, no one wondered that at all.

You're seriously going to drag your whiny butthurt from the thread about the black woman's haircut into a thread about a rape victim being threatened with mutilation? You're racist and misogynist.

By the way, I do sleep around. I openly admit to it. I like to fark and i like to fark multiple people. So trying to insult me by calling me a slut is one big fail.

Welcome to ignore.


I would have taken his response to be a compliment. It sounds like he was suggesting that you were so well rounded and independent that you could stick up for those who were unable to fight back. Even if he wasn't suggesting it, that's probably the preferred interpretation?
 
2012-12-13 09:46:19 PM  

alcoda: Silly Jesus: ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.

Who's done better?

6/10 Almost got me.


1/8 Nowhere close to getting me.
 
2012-12-13 09:46:22 PM  
Ahh yes...Yet another graduate of the Todd Akin School of Asshattery
 
2012-12-13 09:47:10 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


You're enjoying it?
 
2012-12-13 09:48:48 PM  

Silly Jesus: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

You're enjoying it?


Which the idiot judge didn't ask her.
 
2012-12-13 09:48:50 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.

I guess non-whites and women should have won more wars over the last 5 centuries.


Maybe. Or maybe we should try putting in power people who DON'T settle every issue by waging war over it.
 
2012-12-13 09:48:54 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


Well, you could always volunteer to be a victim and let us know? If, you know, the whole being raped thing doesn't cloud your judgment and reactions.
 
2012-12-13 09:49:04 PM  

dywed88: Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?

Give me any context in which the following is acceptable:

"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."



I don't know what else came out at trial so how on earth could I know,
 
2012-12-13 09:49:52 PM  
You said rape twice.
 
2012-12-13 09:50:02 PM  

Silly Jesus: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

You're enjoying it?


No, I'm not. Because you suck at this.
 
2012-12-13 09:50:51 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


I will take a stab at this. Although I have never tried it I imagine biting off an erect penis is more difficult than it might seem in the abstract. Human teeth are not like shark teeth so they cannot just slice through flesh. I would bet in the time it takes to exert enough pressure to cause pain the recipient can respond with a blunt or sharp object to the head.
 
2012-12-13 09:50:58 PM  

Silly Jesus: alcoda: Silly Jesus: ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.

Who's done better?

6/10 Almost got me.

1/8 Nowhere close to getting me.


So, if I'm to take that as an honest question, maybe they've "done better" because for most of this country's history, they were the only ones who could vote.
 
2012-12-13 09:51:25 PM  

Molavian: freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.

Rape him.


If his body permits it to happen and there isn't a lot of damage, we know he was willing, right?
 
2012-12-13 09:51:37 PM  

Bontesla: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Well, you could always volunteer to be a victim and let us know? If, you know, the whole being raped thing doesn't cloud your judgment and reactions.


You my dear can rape me anytime.
 
2012-12-13 09:52:52 PM  

Brick-House: Bontesla: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Well, you could always volunteer to be a victim and let us know? If, you know, the whole being raped thing doesn't cloud your judgment and reactions.

You my dear can rape me anytime.


Lol but then it wouldn't be legitimate.
 
2012-12-13 09:53:00 PM  
How does this guy still have a job?
 
2012-12-13 09:54:07 PM  

Oznog: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?

"Not a gynecologist"? You... don't... say.

The body "shuts down"? And somehow, what, the vagina closes up and disappears? Is there some sort of zipper here they didn't tell me about in health class? WTF?


The idea that there is "illegitimate rape" than women secretly enjoy and/or the woman's body can "shut that whole thing down" to prevent pregnancy has been around a long time.
 
2012-12-13 09:54:23 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


If someone has a gun or knife nearby, they can still kill you. And I've found throughout the years that getting one's penis bitten off makes people angry and liable to lash out.
 
2012-12-13 09:54:45 PM  

Bontesla: Brick-House: Bontesla: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Well, you could always volunteer to be a victim and let us know? If, you know, the whole being raped thing doesn't cloud your judgment and reactions.

You my dear can rape me anytime.

Lol but then it wouldn't be legitimate.


I won't tell if you won't.
 
2012-12-13 09:55:41 PM  

Lsherm: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

If someone has a gun or knife nearby, they can still kill you. And I've found throughout the years that getting one's penis bitten off makes people angry and liable to lash out.


How, exactly, did you come to acquire that very specific piece of knowledge?
 
2012-12-13 09:55:54 PM  

Goetz: Silly Jesus: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

You're enjoying it?

No, I'm not. Because you suck at this.


That's what she said.
 
2012-12-13 09:56:45 PM  

Lsherm: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

If someone has a gun or knife nearby, they can still kill you. And I've found throughout the years that getting one's penis bitten off makes people angry and liable to lash out.


How through the years did you find this out?
 
2012-12-13 09:56:50 PM  
The hell.

Any Cali law experts? Who the hell has the power to remove a judge over there?
 
2012-12-13 09:57:04 PM  

alcoda: Silly Jesus: alcoda: Silly Jesus: ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.

Who's done better?

6/10 Almost got me.

1/8 Nowhere close to getting me.

So, if I'm to take that as an honest question, maybe they've "done better" because for most of this country's history, they were the only ones who could vote.


Lots of other folks were in the same boat.
 
2012-12-13 09:57:17 PM  

Silly Jesus: Goetz: Silly Jesus: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

You're enjoying it?

No, I'm not. Because you suck at this.

That's what she said.


In that single post - you suddenly remind me of Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory.
(not intended to be an insult)
 
2012-12-13 09:58:26 PM  

Silly Jesus: alcoda: Silly Jesus: alcoda: Silly Jesus: ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.

Who's done better?

6/10 Almost got me.

1/8 Nowhere close to getting me.

So, if I'm to take that as an honest question, maybe they've "done better" because for most of this country's history, they were the only ones who could vote.

Lots of other folks were in the same boat.


Strawman much? Yes they were, and?
 
2012-12-13 09:58:35 PM  

Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?


More like 40 years ago
 
2012-12-13 09:59:40 PM  

Brick-House: Lsherm: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

If someone has a gun or knife nearby, they can still kill you. And I've found throughout the years that getting one's penis bitten off makes people angry and liable to lash out.

How through the years did you find this out?


Fark stories.
 
2012-12-13 10:00:46 PM  

Oznog: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?

"Not a gynecologist"? You... don't... say.

The body "shuts down"? And somehow, what, the vagina closes up and disappears? Is there some sort of zipper here they didn't tell me about in health class? WTF?


Nowadays we use Velcro.

This arsehole needs a strong, lengthy public shaming. Then a rape. With a heated screwdriver.
 
2012-12-13 10:00:56 PM  
And if nothing else fails... she should have just had some Rapitape
 
2012-12-13 10:01:46 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


I've often wondered about this myself. Sometimes, three, four times a night.
 
2012-12-13 10:02:01 PM  
Damn, I can't believe there are people here who don't have SillyJ on ignore.
 
2012-12-13 10:03:37 PM  
Fark needs an "Orange County" tag.
 
2012-12-13 10:03:38 PM  
The judge made this statement in 2008 at the sentancing hearing. But the agency didn't hear about until 2012?
How was someone not screaming from rooftops in front of the press and TV cameras about this when it happened?
 
2012-12-13 10:04:28 PM  

fusillade762: Damn, I can't believe there are people here who don't have SillyJ on ignore.


Sorry. Won't make the mistake again, trust me.
 
2012-12-13 10:04:54 PM  

Silly Jesus: Goetz: Silly Jesus: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

You're enjoying it?

No, I'm not. Because you suck at this.

That's what she said.


Yeah, she was right too.
 
2012-12-13 10:08:36 PM  

DownDaRiver: The judge made this statement in 2008 at the sentancing hearing. But the agency didn't hear about until 2012?
How was someone not screaming from rooftops in front of the press and TV cameras about this when it happened?


You ever been at a sentencing hearing?

Me either. It's not like a simple rape case is packed with news reporters and cameras and legions of people taking copious notes. It's very likely nobody was there but the defendant and the two lawyers. And the attorney did the only thing that could be done: Make a formal complaint to the agency.
 
2012-12-13 10:10:34 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: dywed88: Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?

Give me any context in which the following is acceptable:

"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."


I don't know what else came out at trial so how on earth could I know,


You've been on fark one day and you're already so much of a douchebag your're on ignore in record time.
 
2012-12-13 10:10:42 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


Most people would rather comply than get murdered. You'd probably think you were pretty darn clever until they break all of your teeth and then shoot/stab/etc you a couple of times. It might be a consolation to some that they're now running around dickless, but it's just as easy to rape someone with a sawed off chair leg than an actual dick, and the chair leg doesn't have to get tired and go limp after a while.
 
2012-12-13 10:10:47 PM  

MeanJean: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


Actually, sweetheart, no one wondered that at all.

You're seriously going to drag your whiny butthurt from the thread about the black woman's haircut into a thread about a rape victim being threatened with mutilation? You're racist and misogynist.

By the way, I do sleep around. I openly admit to it. I like to fark and i like to fark multiple people. So trying to insult me by calling me a slut is one big fail.

Welcome to ignore.


Hey pretty lady, want to kill all humans?
 
2012-12-13 10:13:57 PM  

Hrist: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Most people would rather comply than get murdered. You'd probably think you were pretty darn clever until they break all of your teeth and then shoot/stab/etc you a couple of times. It might be a consolation to some that they're now running around dickless, but it's just as easy to rape someone with a sawed off chair leg than an actual dick, and the chair leg doesn't have to get tired and go limp after a while.


if you bite some dude's dick off, all the murderous rage juice is gonna drain right the fark out of him. We keep that in our dicks.
 
2012-12-13 10:14:32 PM  

Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?


It's blatantly obvious that this meme is being widely spread amongst the knuckle-dragging old-white-men vermin demographic. Unfortunately, that demographic is highly represented in the judicial, legislative, corporate, and medical communities, which is why it's imperative that they be exposed for the warped poison that they spread.
 
2012-12-13 10:16:15 PM  

NativeDaughter: Just read this outloud to the coworkers in my area of the office. The guy sitting next to me actually got out of his chair, "What the fark?! Where did this happen?!?!" The women here are just shaking their heads and sighing. It's the guys who seemed to be outraged.

But seriously... When is this dumb shiat going to stop? It's like these guys went to bed in 1952 and just woke up today to find the world changed. Seriously... I don't get how this kind of nonsense persists in modern America. Someone please explain?


Alzheimer's?
 
2012-12-13 10:17:19 PM  

skullkrusher: Hrist: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Most people would rather comply than get murdered. You'd probably think you were pretty darn clever until they break all of your teeth and then shoot/stab/etc you a couple of times. It might be a consolation to some that they're now running around dickless, but it's just as easy to rape someone with a sawed off chair leg than an actual dick, and the chair leg doesn't have to get tired and go limp after a while.

if you bite some dude's dick off, all the murderous rage juice is gonna drain right the fark out of him. We keep that in our dicks.


Fine, then why to the neocon republicans have so much rage juice that they attack entire countries AND such little penises?
 
2012-12-13 10:17:27 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


Serious answer? When you're being assaulted, not every person goes into "attack mode." Some people are in such a state of panic, pain, or confusion that they simply freeze up. Rape victims often report a sense of disembodiement during the assault, that their minds are separated from what's going on with their bodies. It's a psychological escape mechanism and it's very common. Also, this probably wasn't the kind of blowjob performed between two willing people, but the forcible insertion of the assailant's penis into the victims mouth. Again, this is a traumatic, violent act that often leaves the victim disoriented and (sometimes) deprived of oxygen. Lastly, as others have mentioned, biting through a penis with the blunt teeth that humans possess can't be as easy as slasher/torture porn movies suggest. Despite being assaulted, not every person is willing to rip into someone else with their teeth. Besides, considering the nature of the courts--which employ people like this dumbfark judge--who's to say a woman who did do such a thing wouldn't end up in jail herself?
 
2012-12-13 10:17:42 PM  
Post
 
2012-12-13 10:18:12 PM  
The funniest part of this whole fiasco is that the only reason the guy is in the news is that he recently ruled that an inmate can have double portions of kosher food because the inmate celebrates Festivus.

He's one of yours when you thought he was one of ours.
 
2012-12-13 10:18:31 PM  

Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?


Seriously, you suck at this. Try a new alt (but practice first).
 
2012-12-13 10:19:14 PM  

Huggermugger: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?

It's blatantly obvious that this meme is being widely spread amongst the knuckle-dragging old-white-men vermin demographic. Unfortunately, that demographic is highly represented in the judicial, legislative, corporate, and medical communities, which is why it's imperative that they be exposed for the warped poison that they spread.


not really very obvious. First off, the judge made these comments 4 years ago. Akin was this Fall.
Secondly, even the comment is not the same although it has a similar ring to it given common phrasing and topic.

The judge isn't applying Akin's extremely dubious science here. He's saying that rape victims tend to have physical evidence left on their bodies after the attack and how that wasn't mentioned in this case.

Not to say that this judge was in any way right for what he said or that he is worthy of the post, it's just not part of some old white guy psuedo-science network conspiracy
 
2012-12-13 10:19:49 PM  
Age does not necessarily = wisdom.

If we stop putting these senile old coots in positions of power, there's no telling how far our society will advance.
 
2012-12-13 10:20:12 PM  

rohar: Fine, then why to the neocon republicans have so much rage juice that they attack entire countries AND such little penises?


some people store the murderous rage juice from other men's penises in their asses
 
2012-12-13 10:20:39 PM  
FTFA: "In the commission's view, the judge's remarks reflected outdated, biased and insensitive views about sexual assault victims who do not 'put up a fight,' " the agency said in a news release Thursday.

Sadly, I don't think they're outdated ideas at all, as they seem to be very much the flavor of the month with a certain section of right-wing morans right now.
 
2012-12-13 10:21:53 PM  
Brick-House.

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


I would imagine that the fact that you're probably gagging and struggling to breathe makes it kind of hard to muster the determination it would take to bite down with sufficient force to tear through all that tough flesh, as well as the various connective tissues. That and the sheer panic and shock might make you go into freeze-up mode, which is a common response in any kind of rape, as well as the fear that he'll beat you within an inch of your life the moment he even begins to feel your teeth start to sink in.


That being said, I have read cases where women actually managed to bite it off, but its pretty rare.

In the interests of science, I suggest we buy a raw sheep (or whatever animal has a member closest in size to a human's) penis from a local butcher, and shove it in the judges mouth and see how long it takes for him to bite down.
 
2012-12-13 10:23:08 PM  

skullkrusher: rohar: Fine, then why to the neocon republicans have so much rage juice that they attack entire countries AND such little penises?

some people store the murderous rage juice from other men's penises in their asses


So now I have to bite their asses off? This isn't going the direction I hoped.
 
2012-12-13 10:23:36 PM  

MeanJean: In the interests of science, I suggest we buy a raw sheep (or whatever animal has a member closest in size to a human's) penis from a local butcher, and shove it in the judges mouth and see how long it takes for him to bite down.


horse in some of our cases

/fly
 
2012-12-13 10:24:11 PM  

rohar: skullkrusher: rohar: Fine, then why to the neocon republicans have so much rage juice that they attack entire countries AND such little penises?

some people store the murderous rage juice from other men's penises in their asses

So now I have to bite their asses off? This isn't going the direction I hoped.


generally it is easier to felch the murderous rage juice out in that case
 
2012-12-13 10:25:34 PM  

cman: I hope one day someone slips a sausage in his bun and then whisper in his ear as the man makes sweet, sweet love to him, "you should have fought harder. Also, the fat on your ass is a pretty damn comfy cushion"


It's not rape if you push back.
 
2012-12-13 10:27:45 PM  
Here's hoping someone gives he gets the opportunity to show us just how hard a rape victim should struggle.
 
2012-12-13 10:28:40 PM  
*sigh* "...gives him the..."

/// need coffee .
 
2012-12-13 10:34:19 PM  
Dafuq did I just read?

I keep thinking it's satire... But... I just can't do this. I'm going back to the pot thread.
 
2012-12-13 10:36:40 PM  

Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?


...OH, FOR F*CK'S SAKE...
 
2012-12-13 10:39:17 PM  
Lsherm, I'm on mobile, so that wasn't pointed towards you, but rather the quoted retard.
 
2012-12-13 10:48:07 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.


I don't think non-white guys would do any better WRT rape.
 
2012-12-13 10:51:47 PM  

fusillade762: Damn, I can't believe there are people here who don't have SillyJ on ignore.


I do, actually, but other people quote him.
 
2012-12-13 10:52:10 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Molavian: freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.

Rape him.

If his body permits it to happen and there isn't a lot of damage, we know he was willing, right?


img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-13 10:52:59 PM  

MeanJean: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


Actually, sweetheart, no one wondered that at all.

You're seriously going to drag your whiny butthurt from the thread about the black woman's haircut into a thread about a rape victim being threatened with mutilation? You're racist and misogynist.

By the way, I do sleep around. I openly admit to it. I like to fark and i like to fark multiple people. So trying to insult me by calling me a slut is one big fail.

Welcome to ignore.


I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know you. I was just adding a punchline to your post.

Did this many people on Fark always have a chunk of rebar in their rectum?
 
2012-12-13 10:53:02 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: So, can you get disbarred for not thinking crimes are real?


Local judges are often elected, and in lots of places don't even have to have legal experience, much less be members of the bar. Dunno about OC specifically.
 
2012-12-13 10:55:07 PM  

MeanJean: By the way, I do sleep around. I openly admit to it. I like to fark and i like to fark multiple people. So trying to insult me by calling me a slut is one big fail.


Do you happen to know who coined the phrase "A slut is a woman with the morals of a man"? If I use it, I would like to be able to attribute it correctly.
 
2012-12-13 10:55:26 PM  

Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


Because if someone has managed to get as far as forcing their dick in your mouth, there are probably other circumstances that meant you were helpless, unable to escape or likely to get the crap kicked out of you ... etc.
 
2012-12-13 10:56:18 PM  
Let's see him get back to us after some psycho threatens him with a heated screwdriver and forces him to perform oral sex that it wasn't a real rape.
 
2012-12-13 10:57:35 PM  

ciberido: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Gergesa: I will take a stab at this. Although I have never tried it I imagine biting off an erect penis is more difficult than it might seem in the abstract. Human teeth are not like shark teeth so they cannot just slice through flesh. I would bet in the time it takes to exert enough pressure to cause pain the recipient can respond with a blunt or sharp object to the head.

[cdn.queenofwands.net image 600x1026]
Human teeth are not like shark teeth?
[www.mensmovieguide.com image 445x250]
Are you sure?


You're just to awesome ;: )
 
2012-12-13 10:58:03 PM  
Blow-Torched screwdriver?

That's hot.

content9.flixster.com

Fear induced vaginitis and tightening up is real, but a rapist angry enough wont care and shove in there dry and cramped.

Like this guy:
i412.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-13 10:58:41 PM  

NativeDaughter: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Serious answer? When you're being assaulted, not every person goes into "attack mode." Some people are in such a state of panic, pain, or confusion that they simply freeze up. Rape victims often report a sense of disembodiement during the assault, that their minds are separated from what's going on with their bodies. It's a psychological escape mechanism and it's very common. Also, this probably wasn't the kind of blowjob performed between two willing people, but the forcible insertion of the assailant's penis into the victims mouth. Again, this is a traumatic, violent act that often leaves the victim disoriented and (sometimes) deprived of oxygen. Lastly, as others have mentioned, biting through a penis with the blunt teeth that humans possess can't be as easy as slasher/torture porn movies suggest. Despite being assaulted, not every person is willing to rip into someone else with their teeth. Besides, considering the nature of the courts--which employ people like this dumbfark judge--who's to say a woman who did do such a thing wouldn't end up in jail herself?


Post-lastly, the angle of attack in forcible fellatio doesn't really lend itself to "biting off a penis." The human jaw is capable of a pretty serious bite when open at a certain angle; but opened wider than that, you lose the leverage needed to bite down with the force needed to sever something as large as a penis. Try it yourself: Attempt to bite through, say, a chicken leg or an ear of corn as opposed to a bratwurst or a hotdog. Also, when having something shoved into your throat, the automatic response is to jerk your head backward, not to clamp down. This is going to again prevent the full force of the jaw from being exerted onto the penis.

Mechanically it's just not likely to happen.
 
2012-12-13 11:03:25 PM  
Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.


NativeDaughter: Serious answer? When you're being assaulted, not every person goes into "attack mode." Some people are in such a state of panic, pain, or confusion that they simply freeze up. Rape victims often report a sense of disembodiement during the assault, that their minds are separated from what's going on with their bodies. It's a psychological escape mechanism and it's very common. Also, this probably wasn't the kind of blowjob performed between two willing people, but the forcible insertion of the assailant's penis into the victims mouth. Again, this is a traumatic, violent act that often leaves the victim disoriented and (sometimes) deprived of oxygen. Lastly, as others have mentioned, biting through a penis with the blunt teeth that humans possess can't be as easy as slasher/torture porn movies suggest. Despite being assaulted, not every person is willing to rip into someone else with their teeth. Besides, considering the nature of the courts--which employ people like this dumbfark judge--who's to say a woman who did do such a thing wouldn't end up in jail herself?


Frozen Fright and Dissociation are two very common reactions to rape.
 
2012-12-13 11:09:10 PM  

ciberido: Happy Hours: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Thank goodness it's mostly white guys in charge of everything in this country. They're doing a bang-up job.

Yeah, because all white guys think like this judge, right?

No, but clearly a world run by white men only leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't want men to have LESS power than women, or whites to have LESS power than non-whites. I'm just sick of them having MORE.


Somehow I don't think any more minorities in power (be they black, Asian, Hispanic or women) will improve the situation much. Look at Asia, South America and Africa.

There are problems all over the world and focusing on the sex or race of those in power seems counter-productive to me.

The president of the US is black. The Chancellor of Germany is female - and I guess on a world scale neither the US or Germany are doing that badly. Britain had Margaret Thatcher. Even Pakistan had a female prime minister at one time.

Kim Jong Un is reportedly male (so the Best Korea propaganda tells us) but he's certainly not white and look at the state his country is in.

There are a lot of rich white males in the world, but continuing to judge people by their skin color or gender isn't helping.
 
2012-12-13 11:09:45 PM  

Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?



I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side...

Yes, we get it. He made a mistake. He did not understand the scientific foundation of what he was talking about. Lots of people don't. If you stopped 10 people in the street and asked them "how old is the Earth?", 9 of those people would not give you an answer that is within the tolerance an establishment scientist would accept.

But that does not mean they are BAD people. Maybe they didn't pay enough attention in school and thought the Earth as 2 million years old, not 4 million. We have scientists to work all that out. The policy makers need to be focussed on what's morally correct, not what the latest $875 a copy journals say...
 
2012-12-13 11:11:20 PM  

EggSniper: Could a lawyer use this in a future case to demonstrate bias and demand a new judge? Could a lawyer use this for an older case on appeal to demonstrate bias and get a mistrial?

/Just curious if this could actually amount to more than a shaming


I would think that certainly, in any rape case going forward, the defense would move that the judge recuse himself, and probably appeal immediately if he doesn't.

... more likely, though, he'll simply never have another rape case on his docket. In cases of legitimate asshattery, Chief Justices have ways of shutting it down.
 
2012-12-13 11:11:37 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: You're just to awesome ;: )


Awww, thanks :)

And thanks for the Total Fark!
 
2012-12-13 11:13:26 PM  
pciszek


Do you happen to know who coined the phrase "A slut is a woman with the morals of a man"? If I use it, I would like to be able to attribute it correctly.

Hmm, good question. Google doesn't show who coined it and google books doesn't show anything.
 
2012-12-13 11:17:03 PM  

Oznog: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?

"Not a gynecologist"? You... don't... say.

The body "shuts down"? And somehow, what, the vagina closes up and disappears? Is there some sort of zipper here they didn't tell me about in health class? WTF?


Um, yeah, came to post this. The opening we're talking about is a hole. If the muscles clench, that makes it more painful, nothing else. That's why you use lube for anal, too. Muscular holes are not farking titanium, nor do they close to the point where you cannot force them open.

/Can we make this dumbass judge take a basic anatomy class? Please?
 
2012-12-13 11:18:23 PM  

PsiChick: Oznog: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?

"Not a gynecologist"? You... don't... say.

The body "shuts down"? And somehow, what, the vagina closes up and disappears? Is there some sort of zipper here they didn't tell me about in health class? WTF?

Um, yeah, came to post this. The opening we're talking about is a hole. If the muscles clench, that makes it more painful, nothing else. That's why you use lube for anal, too. Muscular holes are not farking titanium, nor do they close to the point where you cannot force them open.

/Can we make this dumbass judge take a basic anatomy class? Please?


Ironically, these people are the same ones who will say that women can't serve in the military, because they might have to go in waist-deep water and will get infections.

/"Silly broads, you should just imagine the water is raping you! Then everything will zip up tight."
 
2012-12-13 11:18:50 PM  
Everyone in here is asking how this guy could be so farking stupid?
What I really want to know is what happened in the courtroom after he said that - because you know someone said something if it was just the mother of the victim standing up in the gallery and just throwing whatever happened to be handy at him.
 
2012-12-13 11:19:24 PM  

ciberido: tinfoil-hat maggie: You're just to awesome ;: )

Awww, thanks :)

And thanks for the Total Fark!


Welcome and thanks for the fun web comic links you post : )
/Among other interesting links
 
2012-12-13 11:19:53 PM  

ZeroPly: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?


I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side...

Yes, we get it. He made a mistake. He did not understand the scientific foundation of what he was talking about. Lots of people don't. If you stopped 10 people in the street and asked them "how old is the Earth?", 9 of those people would not give you an answer that is within the tolerance an establishment scientist would accept.

But that does not mean they are BAD people. Maybe they didn't pay enough attention in school and thought the Earth as 2 million years old, not 4 million. We have scientists to work all that out. The policy makers need to be focussed on what's morally correct, not what the latest $875 a copy journals say...


.....


No.
 
2012-12-13 11:23:25 PM  

EggSniper: Could a lawyer use this in a future case to demonstrate bias and demand a new judge? Could a lawyer use this for an older case on appeal to demonstrate bias and get a mistrial?


The defense in a criminal case can appeal or get a mistrial declared, but the prosecution doesn't have the same privileges. If the judge said this at the sentencing stage, the trial had already happened, and prosecution can't ask for a do-over.
 
2012-12-13 11:23:29 PM  
At a June 2008 sentencing hearing, ... The commission said it did not learn of the judge's remarks until May 2012.

Four years? It took four farking years to get the ball rolling on professionally calling this guy out on his being a moron? Not to get the him censured or fired (still waiting on that one); not even to get a complaint filed, but four damn years for the people in charge of judical ethics to even learn about it?

The thin blue line for judges must be a lot thicker than the one for cops.
 
2012-12-13 11:23:52 PM  
ZeroPly



I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side...

If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.
 
2012-12-13 11:25:42 PM  

Happy Hours: There are problems all over the world and focusing on the sex or race of those in power seems counter-productive to me.

The president of the US is black. The Chancellor of Germany is female - and I guess on a world scale neither the US or Germany are doing that badly. Britain had Margaret Thatcher. Even Pakistan had a female prime minister at one time.

Kim Jong Un is reportedly male (so the Best Korea propaganda tells us) but he's certainly not white and look at the state his country is in.

There are a lot of rich white males in the world, but continuing to judge people by their skin color or gender isn't helping.


I agree with you.

And a world in which we no longer judge people by their skin color or gender will be a world in which approximately half of all of the people in power will be women, is that not so?
 
2012-12-13 11:27:30 PM  

Theaetetus: Ironically, these people are the same ones who will say that women can't serve in the military, because they might have to go in waist-deep water and will get infections.

/"Silly broads, you should just imagine the water is raping you! Then everything will zip up tight."


I went to what is considered by at least one study the worst high school in the nation, and my sex ed class still covered this sort of basic anatomy. Good lord.

/Although I didn't eat hot dogs for months after that.
 
2012-12-13 11:28:47 PM  

Theaetetus: EggSniper: Could a lawyer use this in a future case to demonstrate bias and demand a new judge? Could a lawyer use this for an older case on appeal to demonstrate bias and get a mistrial?

/Just curious if this could actually amount to more than a shaming

I would think that certainly, in any rape case going forward, the defense would move that the judge recuse himself, and probably appeal immediately if he doesn't.

... more likely, though, he'll simply never have another rape case on his docket. In cases of legitimate asshattery, Chief Justices have ways of shutting it down.


The prosecution will ask him to recuse himself. I don't see a defense lawyer asking for a new judge when the current one has a history of knocking off 2/3rd of the possible sentence for violent rapists with multiple priors.
 
2012-12-13 11:29:54 PM  
The times they are achangin'. This was a pretty standard (albeit not universal) attitude towards rape not all that long ago. Innumerable rape charges have been overturned by DAs employing the old "it wasn't rape because she didn't fight enough, cry out loudly enough, try to run away, wanted it, was asking for it, etc."

Things that were argued based on "natural law" and Scriptural quotations:

* slavery is natural and God's will
* beating your wife, children, servants, animals within an inch of their lives
* giving a woman a pain killer in childbirth is unnatural because God cursed Eve with the agonies of labour for her part in disobeying his rule on eating apples
* contraception is against natural law (still common)
* abortion is against natural law and God's will and is murder even when the egg is not yet implanted, or is implanted outside the womb, or is merely a mote of protoplasm with no brain, nervous system, heart, etc., and is still endowed with a tail (still common)
* Pater familias has absolute power over his children and wife (wives) as they are chattels and he may kill them without penalty except under certain limited conditions, such as the wife being a member of a very powerful family that might object
* Kings honour their subjects by screwing their wives and daughters
* Kings, lords, masters and husbands rule over their subjects by Divine Right, Law and Will
* The law of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
* If the other guy rapes your women folk, rape his.
* Women are to be kept in their place even if it means gang rape, murder, throwing acid in their face, etc.
* Men rape because women want it, or because they are provocative, or because they are natural temptresses and wicked sinners, or have no souls. (Hard to explain how a three year old can be a whore, but judges have tried, even in the USA and Canada, two of the more "modern", "liberal", and "democratic" nations.
* There exist people called "witches" who are in league with the Devil and who shall not be suffered to live.
* Torture is a legitimate tool of justice, police work, war, revolution, or mental health care, especially against "non-combattants", a vague group of people who have neither the rights of civilians nor of military personnel.

All of these traditional, conservative, or religious views are still current, especially in some third world countries like Afghanistan, India, etc., but also in the US and other liberal democratic nations (especially in flaky "free sex" practicing religious cults).

Let's face it. Conservatism and tradition are history's junk heap. At each and every point in history, the conservatives have been defending the losing side.

To their eternal (and still present and timely) chagrin, we have allowed women to own property, vote, hold office, get a formal education, go to university, do things with out their husband's permission, enter into contracts, divorce, keep their children in a divorce (even when the husband is the real father), have sex, use contraceptives, have abortions at least under some difficult litmus tests such as rape or a threat to their lives, and even preach the Gospel and become priests.

We have attempted to abolish chattel slavery, wage slavery, debt slavery, sex slavery and the mistreatment of workers. We have allowed workers to form unions to countervail the asymetrical warfare waged upon their health, safety, wages and working conditions by their "natural" lords and masters.

We have even allowed them to strike without penalty, disarming the use of violence, murder, unemployment and retaliation.

In addition to the rights of slaves and women, we have extended human rights to children and to animals. You can be jailed for mistreatment of children that would have been regarded as righteous and pious less than a century ago and which is still practized by untold millions of parents and guardians today.

We have even forbidden many forms of cruelty to animals, whether wild or domestic, destined to slaughter ("humane" slaughter) or kept as toys, pets, or scientific test subjects and spectacles.

In short, every inch or millimeter of progress we have made morally over ape men and medieval peasants has been a product of "liberalism", "democracy", "enlightenment", "modernity", and "science".

Now, it is not as if many conservatives and traditionalists haven't followed the liberal democratic trek from barbarism and despotism. Cotton Mather condemned witches (but used Classical metaphors in his writing, as he had a Classical Education). He also advocated for vaccinations. Not a total monster or a total reactionary, therefore. Of this I am glad for he's in my family tree along with the witches and their accusers and neighbours and friends and enemies.

Billy Graham seemed to have learned something from his trips to Russia. In his old age he was considerably mellowed and more moderate than in his fiery youth and mature years.

And yesterday's liberal insanity is the tradition that conservatives embrace. I speak of real conservatives, those who are merely cautious about adopting new ideas, those who are physically or mentally resistant to novelty and change.

But there is another kind of "conservative" who conserves nothing--not the environment, not lovely old architecture, not even tradition. These people are more radical than many revolutionaries, They exist where the left and right categories meet going around the political circle. They are no good except when, like leftist extremists, they luck out and latch onto an idea so radical that it takes even progressives and liberals many decades or centuries to warm to it and sort the wheat from the chaff.

It may seem self-evident that what this judge has said is bunkum, but thank a liberal or progressive or activist for persuading you that this is so. There are a lot of people who need persuading, and a lot of sociopaths who can not be persuaded, although I am told they are a minority of less than 5% of the population and therefore poor representatives of the human race, even in statistical terms.

To my mind, raping a hooker adds robbery to assault, so I can not accept the "provocative dress and make up" or the "she was a whore" argumen. On the other hand, I know that some women have the morals of a cheap whore and will use accusations as weapons or punishment. Some accused are innocent. You have to assume that a priori and then sort those few out from the guilty or probably guilty. Even men and women accused of molesting children are sometimes maligned by the brats or by some adult who confabulates with the children in question.

Justice doesn't come cheap or easy. Especially when the definition keeps changing, I hope for the better. It doesn't hurt to smack down a stupid judge once in a while. There are, I am sure, many judges who came out of law school in the bottom of their class and many who are as dumb as the "beaks" in a kangaroo court farce. Others err perhaps by being ahead of their time or out-smarting themselves, and yet others are wise and good.

There's no law against the law being an ass.
 
2012-12-13 11:32:59 PM  
 
2012-12-13 11:34:35 PM  
What an asshole!
 
2012-12-13 11:35:10 PM  
mind you, that was a comment about his demeanor and an invitation for him to be prison raped.
 
2012-12-13 11:36:12 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: So, can you get disbarred for not thinking crimes are real?


Do judges necessarily have to be lawyers?
 
2012-12-13 11:36:32 PM  

MeanJean: ZeroPly

I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side...

If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.



Fortunately, in MY country, you can vote for whomever you want without worrying about being physically assaulted. You might want to focuss on issues rather than threatening those who do not agree with your views.
 
2012-12-13 11:38:04 PM  

PsiChick: Oznog: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?

"Not a gynecologist"? You... don't... say.

The body "shuts down"? And somehow, what, the vagina closes up and disappears? Is there some sort of zipper here they didn't tell me about in health class? WTF?

Um, yeah, came to post this. The opening we're talking about is a hole. If the muscles clench, that makes it more painful, nothing else. That's why you use lube for anal, too. Muscular holes are not farking titanium, nor do they close to the point where you cannot force them open.

/Can we make this dumbass judge take a basic anatomy class? Please?


Actually you are wrong about just being "more painful and nothing else". Injuries from rape can be terrible, and occasionally someone has even died of internal tearing. I've seen forensic pathology photos of the types of injuries that happen. Its gross.

But on the other hand I was pissed off when I read an article (may have been wikipedia) which stated that this is inevitable because those muscles cannot be consciously controlled and always tense. That's just bullshiat. There is going to be a huge amount of variation depending on circumstances ...
 
2012-12-13 11:39:41 PM  
Something in his brain should have stopped him as soon as he heard himself utter the words, "I'm not a gynecologist but . . . "

I mean, he found one of the worst ways to end the sentence, but how many better alternatives could there have been?

/I do have to admit to say "I'm not a racist but . . ." on occasion.
 
2012-12-13 11:40:46 PM  

MeanJean: From TFA

On the day he raped her, prosecutors said, Gurel had threatened to mutilate her face and vagina with a heated screwdriver.

Of course she didn't put up a fight, HE WAS GOING TO BURN HER EYES AND/OR CLIT OUT WITH HEATED METAL IF SHE DID!


And people wonder why I participated in the SlutWalk.


In any other thread I would have to respond (somewhat crassly) about your SlutWalk participation. But I just can't bring myself to do it right now. Remind me in another thread, please.
 
2012-12-13 11:41:07 PM  
ZeroPly

Fortunately, in MY country, you can vote for whomever you want without worrying about being physically assaulted. You might want to focuss on issues rather than threatening those who do not agree with your views.

I wasn't threatening you, shiat for brains. I said you deserved one, not that I was going to head over Missouri and personally give you one. You're just as farking stupid as Akin if you can't tell the difference.

If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.
 
2012-12-13 11:42:32 PM  

NativeDaughter: Brian Ryanberger: So now we are going to judge him when we don't even know all the facts he did?

No, no. We're judging him based on the fact that he was either willfully ignorant of or doesn't believe in facts. Crazy, I know. Also, for completely making a bunch of shiat up. Vaginas aren't magic, they are not capable of shutting down in response to any kind of physical trauma... and even if they were, that doesn't change the fact that a forcible, violent act was being performed in order to create said traumatic event.

In short, we're judging him because he's utterly unqualified to hear cases concerning anything more serious than a parking violation. Really, he should be removed from the bench, as someone with such out-of-date, ridiculous ideas does not need to be anywhere near a courtroom. Or other human beings, for that matter.


YES THEY ARE! Just a different kind of magic. Like sucking all the money out of my bank account.
 
2012-12-13 11:44:24 PM  

amquelbettamin: Fear induced vaginitis and tightening up is real, but a rapist angry enough wont care and shove in there dry and cramped.


It's not like the dryness can be solved with astroglide, or the moisture from the forced blowjob =(
 
2012-12-13 11:46:00 PM  

Happy Hours: Even Pakistan had a female prime minister at one time.


DIdn't she have an extremely brief tenure, ended by assassination?
 
2012-12-13 11:47:34 PM  

MeanJean: ZeroPly

Fortunately, in MY country, you can vote for whomever you want without worrying about being physically assaulted. You might want to focuss on issues rather than threatening those who do not agree with your views.

I wasn't threatening you, shiat for brains. I said you deserved one, not that I was going to head over Missouri and personally give you one. You're just as farking stupid as Akin if you can't tell the difference.

If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.



You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".

Name calling will not get you off the hook. I have as much a right to my opininion as you do to yours. I will not have my right to vote for who I want taken away by a politically correct bully.
 
2012-12-13 11:47:42 PM  

MeanJean: ZeroPly



I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side...

If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.


I would vote for a hardcore communist over Akin. And I think hardcore communists should be shot on sight.
 
2012-12-13 11:51:15 PM  

MeanJean: You're just as farking stupid as Akin if you can't tell the difference.


He said he voted for Akin... are you expecting him to be a Mensa member?
 
2012-12-13 11:51:22 PM  

ZeroPly: Lsherm: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

Someone needs to explain to this guy that you can get an erection even if you really, really don't want one.

This is Todd Akin's argument. Was there a book passed around 20 years ago that all these guys read?


I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side...

Yes, we get it. He made a mistake. He did not understand the scientific foundation of what he was talking about. Lots of people don't. If you stopped 10 people in the street and asked them "how old is the Earth?", 9 of those people would not give you an answer that is within the tolerance an establishment scientist would accept.

But that does not mean they are BAD people. Maybe they didn't pay enough attention in school and thought the Earth as 2 million years old, not 4 million. We have scientists to work all that out. The policy makers need to be focussed on what's morally correct, not what the latest $875 a copy journals say...


Wrong. So very, very wrong. The people we elect or who are appointed to positions of power, and who make decisions that directly impact the lives of other people absolutely MUST be held to a higher standard than "What's morally correct," because there is no such thing as Absolute Morals or a Universal Moral Code. Leaving it up to the individual to determine what is moral, in a court of law, utterly defeats the purpose of having a court of LAW in the first place. If you are responsible for passing judgement on cases that involve rape, violent assault, murder, etc., you absolutely MUST be up-to-date with scientific, psychological, and LEGAL information relevant to your area of influence.

Presiding over a rape case and not understanding that the human body has no way of "shutting down" an assault by magic, or Jesus, or whatever is about as irresponsible and dangerous as having someone who doesn't understand DNA testing or forensics presiding over a murder case.

By the way... I find it disgusting that you would somehow equate a situation where a JUDGE accused a rape victim of "not fighting hard enough" and made a point to categorize the case as a "technical rape" with following some kind of moral code in favor of science. The same goes for Akin, regardless of the difference in profession.

Stop trying to "explain away" or justify the insane amounts of ridiculous derp that these people are constantly spewing. There's no excuse for it. It's unacceptable.
 
2012-12-13 11:53:15 PM  

ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads


No she didn't, she said you deserve it.
You really don't understand the difference do you?
 
2012-12-13 11:53:56 PM  

Molavian: Execute him.

Rape him.


Nah.

Step 1: Drug him and put his balls in vise, out in a hay barn.
Step 2: When he wakes up, lay a carving knife on the workbench
Step 3: Set the barn on fire.
 
2012-12-13 11:55:14 PM  

ZeroPly: MeanJean: ZeroPly

Fortunately, in MY country, you can vote for whomever you want without worrying about being physically assaulted. You might want to focuss on issues rather than threatening those who do not agree with your views.

I wasn't threatening you, shiat for brains. I said you deserved one, not that I was going to head over Missouri and personally give you one. You're just as farking stupid as Akin if you can't tell the difference.

If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.


You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".

Name calling will not get you off the hook. I have as much a right to my opininion as you do to yours. I will not have my right to vote for who I want taken away by a politically correct bully.


No wonder you voted for Akin - your basic reading skills are as lacking as your common sense.

You need to go look up what an actual threat is.
 
2012-12-13 11:56:22 PM  
"I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

*blink*
*blink*

*blink*
 
2012-12-13 11:57:02 PM  

MeanJean: If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.


MeanJean: If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.

ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".


No, she didn't, Dummkopf. Stop embarrassing yourself.
 
2012-12-13 11:57:15 PM  
Zeroply

You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".

Wow, you really are as thick as pigshiat, aren't you? Nobody is threatening anybody in this thread.

I will not have my right to vote for who I want taken away by a politically correct bully.

I'm not planning on taking away your right to vote, you empty-headed pig farker. Even a mouth-breathing farkhead like you has the right to vote.

I'm just telling you are a terrible person for voting for Akin and you deserve a cockpunch. Do i plan to personally drive over to Missouri and give one to you? No, of course not.

Would I feel some gratification if you recieved one due to happenstance? Yes, I would.

It doesn't suprise me that an Akin supporter would be too stupid to know the difference.

Now go whine about the mean ol' liberal PC boogeyman to someone who gives a shiat. Crawl back to the Free Republic where you belong.
 
2012-12-13 11:58:30 PM  
 
2012-12-14 12:00:18 AM  
What this guy said is horrible and he should be held accountable for it.

But what's also sick is the amount of people claiming rape is horrible then turning around and condoning rape as a valid punishment. Newsflash for you: prison rape is just as bad as any other type of rape. You saw this in the whole Sandusky thing. How many people were rooting for him to get raped in prison. Forced sex is a horrible crime no matter what the circumstance is

/I will be called a rape apologist for pointing out that The people calling for guys like the judge or Sandusky to be raped are just as bad as the judge
 
2012-12-14 12:00:35 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads

No she didn't, she said you deserve it.
You really don't understand the difference do you?



So the semantic nuances are lost on you liberals?

If a conservative says "the abortion doctor living at 237 Crosby Ln, Chesterfield, MO 63017 deserves to die", and someone guns her down in her front yard, that's somehow differerent from the conservative's intent that she die?
 
2012-12-14 12:01:20 AM  
Anyone who didn't vote for Akin deserves to get their genitals mutilated with a scalding phillipshead.
 
2012-12-14 12:02:45 AM  
By the way, we are talking about Clay Akin, right?
 
2012-12-14 12:04:42 AM  

ciberido: MeanJean: If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.

MeanJean: If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.

ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".

No, she didn't, Dummkopf. Stop embarrassing yourself.


He has enough brain capacity for involuntary functions like heartbeat, breathing, and posting on fark. He can't be expected to do anything requiring actual intelligence.
 
2012-12-14 12:05:42 AM  

ZeroPly: Uchiha_Cycliste: ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads

No she didn't, she said you deserve it.
You really don't understand the difference do you?


So the semantic nuances are lost on you liberals?

If a conservative says "the abortion doctor living at 237 Crosby Ln, Chesterfield, MO 63017 deserves to die", and someone guns her down in her front yard, that's somehow differerent from the conservative's intent that she die?


You must be new to fark.

Or just extremely stupid.

I'm going with stupid.

Does stupid work for you?
 
2012-12-14 12:06:18 AM  

Warlordtrooper: What this guy said is horrible and he should be held accountable for it.

But what's also sick is the amount of people claiming rape is horrible then turning around and condoning rape as a valid punishment. Newsflash for you: prison rape is just as bad as any other type of rape. You saw this in the whole Sandusky thing. How many people were rooting for him to get raped in prison. Forced sex is a horrible crime no matter what the circumstance is

/I will be called a rape apologist for pointing out that The people calling for guys like the judge or Sandusky to be raped are just as bad as the judge


What about demanding that the Judge be technically raped? Is that still morally bankrupt?

/not advocating that the Judge be raped
//should be removed from the bench, tho...
 
2012-12-14 12:07:21 AM  

ZeroPly


If a conservative says "the abortion doctor living at 237 Crosby Ln, Chesterfield, MO 63017 deserves to die", and someone guns her down in her front yard, that's somehow differerent from the conservative's intent that she die?

You would have a point if I had actually posted your address or any form of identifying information. But the fact of the matter is, I have no farking idea who you are, what you look like, or where you live, aside from you being in Missouri, a state containing over six million people.

Do you actually expect to hear your doorbell ring, and to open it to find me there grinning manically and cracking my knuckles?
 
2012-12-14 12:08:04 AM  

ZeroPly: I've lived in Missouri 17 years, and I voted for Todd Akin, but mostly because McCaskill is a wolf in sheep's clothing - she claims to be "50 out of 100" on the political spectrum but is firmly on Obama's side....

Yes, we get it. He made a mistake. He did not understand the scientific foundation of what he was talking about. Lots of people don't. If you stopped 10 people in the street and asked them "how old is the Earth?", 9 of those people would not give you an answer that is within the tolerance an establishment scientist would accept.



he didn't "make a mistake" he made a statement so pants-on-head retarded that I would have called bullshiat on him WHEN I WAS TEN YEARS OLD. Comparing his answer to people being unsure of the age of the earth (ignoring YECs) is completely bullshiat. They might not know that it is 4.2bn years old, but most would know "billions of years old" - that is simply an issue of lack of precision. Akins comment flew in the face of all reality and common sense.

Anyone who voted for Akin is a prime example of exactly why the founding fathers didn't trust the voters enough and created the electoral college. The electoral college was a firewall to prevent reality-hating farkwits from ruining this country.

ZeroPly:
But that does not mean they are BAD people. Maybe they didn't pay enough attention in school and thought the Earth as 2 million years old, not 4 million.


4.2 billion years. repeat that after me. 4.2bn years.


ZeroPly:
We have scientists to work all that out.


we have scientists to do research, and publish that research, and review other peoples research to see if it has errors, and to try to turn research into practice.

That does not allow us to abrogate our responsibility to be educated individuals. Ignorance, tribalism (party before country), and misinformation/propaganda (fox news, anti-science bullshiat, etc) are all cancers upon a democratic society.

You are part of that cancer.

ZeroPly:
The policy makers need to be focussed on what's morally correct, not what the latest $875 a copy journals say...


shiatting on rape victims with your anti-scientific bullshiat (oh which he has a LONG history of making antiscience bullshiat statements) is definitely not the moral thing to do.
 
2012-12-14 12:11:44 AM  

ZeroPly: So the semantic nuances are lost on you liberals?


no, "us liberals" were pointing out semantic nuances to the tribalistic moron who voted for a woman hating asshole.

ZeroPly: If a conservative says "the abortion doctor living at 237 Crosby Ln, Chesterfield, MO 63017 deserves to die", and someone guns her down in her front yard, that's somehow differerent from the conservative's intent that she die?


now that is a different statement.

I would say "you deserve a cockpunch" and "they deserve to die" are a bit on different levels. Especially since here is no history of people going around giving cockpunches for political reasons, however there is a history of right wing terrorism against women's health providers and centers.


Nuance and context, they're kinda important. Maybe you should actually understand them before you try to lecture others
 
2012-12-14 12:13:12 AM  

amquelbettamin: Fear induced vaginitis and tightening up is real, but a rapist angry enough wont care and shove in there dry and cramped.


What a moron you are. You think that using a word like 'vaginitis' makes you sound scientific, but you don't take the time to confirm the actual definition of the word. I'm not exactly sure what the concept you were attempting to convey with your faux-pas, but 'vaginitis' means a (generally) chronic infection of the vagina that results in a foul-smelling discharge, frequently accompanied by itching.

I can't possibly imagine how fear could "induce" a bacterial infection, but please do enlighten us.
 
2012-12-14 12:14:17 AM  

OgreMagi: ZeroPly: Uchiha_Cycliste: ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads

No she didn't, she said you deserve it.
You really don't understand the difference do you?


So the semantic nuances are lost on you liberals?

If a conservative says "the abortion doctor living at 237 Crosby Ln, Chesterfield, MO 63017 deserves to die", and someone guns her down in her front yard, that's somehow differerent from the conservative's intent that she die?

You must be new to fark.

Or just extremely stupid.

I'm going with stupid.

Does stupid work for you?



... you forgot the extremely the last two times. I found that adverb to be extremely important. I also would have been happy with: mind-numbingly. extraordinarily, incredibly, unbelievably and indescribably. Thank you for your time.
 
2012-12-14 12:15:35 AM  

Kazan: I would say "you deserve a cockpunch" and "they deserve to die" are a bit on different levels. Especially since here is no history of people going around giving cockpunches for political reasons, however there is a history of right wing terrorism against women's health providers and centers.


And female congressman who have been targeted. . Can;t forget them. =/
 
2012-12-14 12:18:57 AM  
Huggermugger


What a moron you are. You think that using a word like 'vaginitis' makes you sound scientific, but you don't take the time to confirm the actual definition of the word. I'm not exactly sure what the concept you were attempting to convey with your faux-pas, but 'vaginitis' means a (generally) chronic infection of the vagina that results in a foul-smelling discharge, frequently accompanied by itching.


Easy there, tiger. I believe he is refering to vaginismus, a painful, involuntary contraction of the pc muscles that makes penetration difficult and painful. 

Save the venom for someone who deserves it, like the Akin supporter.
 
2012-12-14 12:24:30 AM  

OgreMagi: ciberido: MeanJean: If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.

MeanJean: If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.

ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".

No, she didn't, Dummkopf. Stop embarrassing yourself.

He has enough brain capacity for involuntary functions like heartbeat, breathing, and posting on fark. He can't be expected to do anything requiring actual intelligence.



This is the typical liberal viewpoint of "you didn't build that". So I can't be expected to do anything requiring intelligence but I still have just the necessary "involuntary functions" to "post on Fark"?!

I am hoping I don't have to spell out how insulting and demeaning this is to the community that I have been part of for years. The members on this forum are not a mouthdragging tribe who post here because no one else takes them seriously. Yes, I understand that on elitist forms like Slashdot none of us are going to get a +5, but you don't see me crying because of that.
 
2012-12-14 12:26:34 AM  

ZeroPly: OgreMagi: ciberido: MeanJean: If you voted for Akin, for ANY REASON, you deserve a cock punch. Period.

MeanJean: If what I said was a threat, then this entire thread is filled with threats against the judge.

ZeroPly: You threatened to strike me in my gonads because I politely expressed my political view. And now you lay claim to the typical excuse of the 9 year old -- "everyone else in this thread is doing it".

No, she didn't, Dummkopf. Stop embarrassing yourself.

He has enough brain capacity for involuntary functions like heartbeat, breathing, and posting on fark. He can't be expected to do anything requiring actual intelligence.


This is the typical liberal viewpoint of "you didn't build that". So I can't be expected to do anything requiring intelligence but I still have just the necessary "involuntary functions" to "post on Fark"?!

I am hoping I don't have to spell out how insulting and demeaning this is to the community that I have been part of for years. The members on this forum are not a mouthdragging tribe who post here because no one else takes them seriously. Yes, I understand that on elitist forms like Slashdot none of us are going to get a +5, but you don't see me crying because of that.


ridelifebmx.com
 
2012-12-14 12:34:04 AM  
shut that whole thing down

because women are robots with "on-off" switches or something?

(yeah, what does "shut down" mean)
 
2012-12-14 12:40:07 AM  

ZeroPly: This is the typical liberal viewpoint of "you didn't build that".


oh look. another conservative that has no farking idea what that quote is about, and bandies it out.

Did you build the road in front of your house? the power lines that deliver power to your house? the sewer lines? water lines? utility plants that provide those services?
Did your employer build all those for his business? Did he build the roads that ship is product around the country, or world?

No, of course you didn't and they didn't. All of our taxes paid for those.

THAT is what that quote is about. In a modern economy no man is an island.
 
2012-12-14 12:42:33 AM  

rohar: skullkrusher: Hrist: Brick-House: I have a question ladies and men...

FTFA:
had been convicted of rape, forcible oral copulation, domestic battery, stalking and making threats...

if a guy forcablly puts his penis in your mouth, why would you not simply bite it off? Trust me, he's gonna be a little busy to attack you. And if you keep it, you can give it to the police as evidence.

Most people would rather comply than get murdered. You'd probably think you were pretty darn clever until they break all of your teeth and then shoot/stab/etc you a couple of times. It might be a consolation to some that they're now running around dickless, but it's just as easy to rape someone with a sawed off chair leg than an actual dick, and the chair leg doesn't have to get tired and go limp after a while.

if you bite some dude's dick off, all the murderous rage juice is gonna drain right the fark out of him. We keep that in our dicks.

Fine, then why do the neocon republicans have so much rage juice that they attack entire countries AND such little penises?


It's actually because of the little penises. The rage gets concentrated that much more.
 
2012-12-14 12:43:29 AM  

Tigger: freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.

with rape


Death by snu snu!

But seriously, this is just horrible. I'm at a loss for words.
 
2012-12-14 12:51:22 AM  
Thank you so much tinfoil-hat maggie! Seriously, especially since this will help when I'm at my parents house over the holidays.
Thank you!
 
2012-12-14 12:52:19 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Thank you so much tinfoil-hat maggie! Seriously, especially since this will help when I'm at my parents house over the holidays.
Thank you!


Welcome, just keep being you : )
 
2012-12-14 12:53:03 AM  

Kazan: ZeroPly: This is the typical liberal viewpoint of "you didn't build that".

oh look. another conservative that has no farking idea what that quote is about, and bandies it out.

Did you build the road in front of your house? the power lines that deliver power to your house? the sewer lines? water lines? utility plants that provide those services?
Did your employer build all those for his business? Did he build the roads that ship is product around the country, or world?

No, of course you didn't and they didn't. All of our taxes paid for those.

THAT is what that quote is about. In a modern economy no man is an island.


You forgot the single most important one, primary and secondary education. Possibly even state college.

\possibly
\\potentially
\\\unlikely
 
2012-12-14 12:55:46 AM  

Warlordtrooper: /I will be called a rape apologist for pointing out that The people calling for guys like the judge or Sandusky to be raped are just as bad as the judge


No you wont. Go be a poor persecuted snowflake somewhere else.
 
2012-12-14 12:58:53 AM  

ciberido: And a world in which we no longer judge people by their skin color or gender will be a world in which approximately half of all of the people in power will be women, is that not so?


Someday it will happen. Maybe not in our lifetimes but someday. We're getting there - slowly. If you had told me we'd have a black president now when I first voted I would have said you were crazy. Nobody's going to vote for Jesse Jackson. But Barack Obama is not Jesse Jackson and Americans did vote for him. If I live until the typical life expectancy I expect I will see a woman serving as President before I die.
 
2012-12-14 01:02:50 AM  

ciberido: And a world in which we no longer judge people by their skin color or gender will be a world in which approximately half of all of the people in power will be women, is that not so?


probably not
 
2012-12-14 01:10:54 AM  

skullkrusher: ciberido: And a world in which we no longer judge people by their skin color or gender will be a world in which approximately half of all of the people in power will be women, is that not so?

probably not


I'm still waiting. I - I - I'm still waiting.
 
2012-12-14 01:19:59 AM  
Firstly, I think this judge is despicable. He should not be a judge. He has clearly demonstrated an unacceptable bias AND a lack of common sense, compassion & decency.

Secondly, I have been a daily reader of fark for almost a dozen years. In that time I have not put anyone on ignore. I've thought about it a few times, but either given them the benefit of the doubt, or kept them around for their "entertainment value."

Until now. ZeroPly has made the ignore list. Yes, I read your profile & realize you're desperately trying to be a troll. You fail. You're just a waste of characters & oxygen. Go be a turd somewhere else.
 
2012-12-14 01:21:57 AM  

o4tuna: Until now. ZeroPly has made the ignore list. Yes, I read your profile & realize you're desperately trying to be a troll. You fail. You're just a waste of characters & oxygen. Go be a turd somewhere else.


wow.. i did just read his profile and he is a desperate troll. shows how low conservatives have stooped that a troll that bad can use Poe's law.
 
2012-12-14 01:26:22 AM  

Happy Hours: ciberido: And a world in which we no longer judge people by their skin color or gender will be a world in which approximately half of all of the people in power will be women, is that not so?

Someday it will happen. Maybe not in our lifetimes but someday. We're getting there - slowly. If you had told me we'd have a black president now when I first voted I would have said you were crazy. Nobody's going to vote for Jesse Jackson. But Barack Obama is not Jesse Jackson and Americans did vote for him. If I live until the typical life expectancy I expect I will see a woman serving as President before I die.


I appreciate the sentiment but I don't know if I agree.
It has seemed to me, since I started following politics more in depth that there is an aspect of being an aggressive asshole that is necessary to be successful at politics. I agree that there will (and should") be more women in politics but I don't think we will reach parity. I think the proportions will reflect relatively the proportion of men who are aggressive assholes to the portion of women with the same temperament. Then again maybe I'm totally off base and when things calm down a bit on the discrimination and distrust and the good ol' boys front it won't be necessary to act that way anymore and we will reach parity. But while I think we may see a lot more women in power in our lifetimes I think parity will take much, much longer, It will require a multi-generational campaign of improved education and stressing and demonstrating equality.

I think that we won't see significant changes in the way our political system behaves untill we have a better educated populace that both understands how the government works and the issues at hand. Necessarily that level of understanding requires a functional knowledge of civics, government, math, and to a lesser extent science. Our political system has really granted an enormous amount of power to the people with respect to our ability to throw out of office all the chucklefarks at once, anytime we want within every 6 years. If they know that we know they can do that, they will start working towards what is best for the nation AND we will finally start getting politicians that want that too.

Unfortunately that level of education requires significant changes to our public education system. We need to value and pay our teachers well. It should be a sought after and competitive field, not a back-up/last resort for professionals. We also have a little work to do with respect to teaching a subject instead of teaching how to pass tests in subjects. Not to mention textbooks that are intellectually as prestigious as peer reviewed science journals, not written around the suggestions of fundamentalist Texans. The real problem though is that the people in power benefit directly from an ignorant populace to stay in power. Unfortunately it's those same people that control the ability to make these changes made It's going to take a LOT of money, and not just a one-time deal; in perpetuity. It's also going to require a total revamping of the whole system. How we rate teachers, how we rate student's progress, how we structure classes and annual teaching goals. It will take a lot of work to come to a consensus on how these changes should be implemented and what they should be. Again, the people in power can easily stop that from happening.

At the end of the day, I believe that a majority of the problems this nation faces could be solved with a better educated and more enthusiastically politically active populace. But how we get there with out already having that is something I have no answer for, no matter how hard I try. On the upside, the problems this nation faces can be overcome, and really...are not that bad if we really work towards fixing things. We have smart people. hard workers and lots of materials. There are no obstacles on our horizon that are impossible to overcome., there just isn't necessarily the will to work together right now to make sure our issues don't become overwhelming and insurmountable.


\WOW I just wrote MUCH more than I intended when I responded to you.
 
2012-12-14 01:29:49 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: Thank you so much tinfoil-hat maggie! Seriously, especially since this will help when I'm at my parents house over the holidays.
Thank you!

Welcome, just keep being you : )


I think you'll like what I just wrote. I didn't intend to write that much, but I felt everything there needed to be said.
And I was able to do it without any partisan finger pointing. =D
 
2012-12-14 01:36:53 AM  
Rot in hell you worthless POS. God forbid his wife or daughter is raped (i would never wish that on anybody)...but i wonder if he'd blame her for it.
 
2012-12-14 01:47:06 AM  
i suppose it's vain to hope for feedback on my thoughts and see what other people think about. these ideas. I've had em floating around for a while but never really shared.
 
2012-12-14 01:53:56 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: Thank you so much tinfoil-hat maggie! Seriously, especially since this will help when I'm at my parents house over the holidays.
Thank you!

Welcome, just keep being you : )

I think you'll like what I just wrote. I didn't intend to write that much, but I felt everything there needed to be said.
And I was able to do it without any partisan finger pointing. =D


I read it all and I agree education is a fundamental problem. The other big problem is misogynistic in origin. In the politics tab there's a thread that says Sotomayor is ugly as well as other things, no one talks about male Supreme Court Justices that way. So yea, education should help that but I think we'll get there so many great things happening now and hopefully it continues.
 
2012-12-14 02:09:20 AM  
@ Uchiha & Maggie: Another issue is our habit of questioning or blaming the victim for doing the wrong thing, being in the wrong place, wearing the wrong kind of clothing, enjoying the wrong amounts of alcohol, being outside at the wrong time of the day, reacting the wrong way, being with the wrong person, etc., intsead of having real, serious discussions on how to curb or avoid the formation of the behaviors and thought patterns that lead to this kind of violence.

It's the abuser/perpetrator that needs to be discussed (whether male or female). When we finally move away from scrutinizing every behavioral nuance of the victim, we might start making some foreward progress. Note, that's not the same thing as vetting the allegations made by the victim. That has to be done to avoid prosecuting and punishing the innocent. It seems like every time a story like this (the actual assault), the story focuses on what the victim did wrong or could have done better and almost NO time is dedicated to discussing the abuser and the larger societal issues tied into these types of assaults and events.
 
2012-12-14 02:11:07 AM  

Kazan: ZeroPly: This is the typical liberal viewpoint of "you didn't build that".

oh look. another conservative that has no farking idea what that quote is about, and bandies it out.

Did you build the road in front of your house? the power lines that deliver power to your house? the sewer lines? water lines? utility plants that provide those services?
Did your employer build all those for his business? Did he build the roads that ship is product around the country, or world?

No, of course you didn't and they didn't. All of our taxes paid for those.

THAT is what that quote is about. In a modern economy no man is an island.


And why do they build roads and run power lines? Because there are businesses or homes. And the homes won't be built if there are no jobs. It's not unusual for a large business in a rural area to build their own road to connect to the public roads. And those track houses get the roads because the investors think they will sell lots of houses and putting in roads is required by building codes.

You are thinking backwards.
 
2012-12-14 02:14:14 AM  
Zeroply is trolling everyone, please stop falling for it.

The age of the Earth is actually probably closer to 4.54 billion years.

This judge is a tool. He is suffering from "judgitis" which happens occasionally to people on the bench. A swift and embarrassing reprimand is usually enough to cure or at least temporarily treat the condition. If that fails, removal from office through the constitutional means provided is the next best step.

/That is all.
 
2012-12-14 02:14:17 AM  

NativeDaughter: @ Uchiha & Maggie: Another issue is our habit of questioning or blaming the victim for doing the wrong thing, being in the wrong place, wearing the wrong kind of clothing, enjoying the wrong amounts of alcohol, being outside at the wrong time of the day, reacting the wrong way, being with the wrong person, etc., intsead of having real, serious discussions on how to curb or avoid the formation of the behaviors and thought patterns that lead to this kind of violence.

It's the abuser/perpetrator that needs to be discussed (whether male or female). When we finally move away from scrutinizing every behavioral nuance of the victim, we might start making some foreward progress. Note, that's not the same thing as vetting the allegations made by the victim. That has to be done to avoid prosecuting and punishing the innocent. It seems like every time a story like this (the actual assault), the story focuses on what the victim did wrong or could have done better and almost NO time is dedicated to discussing the abuser and the larger societal issues tied into these types of assaults and events.


You are absolutely right, it's disgusting how much what the victim did or didn't do in these cases comes up.
 
2012-12-14 02:18:13 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: Thank you so much tinfoil-hat maggie! Seriously, especially since this will help when I'm at my parents house over the holidays.
Thank you!

Welcome, just keep being you : )

I think you'll like what I just wrote. I didn't intend to write that much, but I felt everything there needed to be said.
And I was able to do it without any partisan finger pointing. =D

I read it all and I agree education is a fundamental problem. The other big problem is misogynistic in origin. In the politics tab there's a thread that says Sotomayor is ugly as well as other things, no one talks about male Supreme Court Justices that way. So yea, education should help that but I think we'll get there so many great things happening now and hopefully it continues.


I think the misogyny has two origins. One in essentially the education and what have you already discussed. The other is a similar origin that general discrimination stems from. Not too long ago being a white, straight, male in this country bestowed upon the lucky a significant advantage (and to an extent still does) . But it used to guarantee you were one step ahead of others when being considered for any arrangement or position where meritocracy is supposed to be the guiding principle. It was just understood and accepted that one was more qualified, or even if less qualified was a better choice. These days that's very much so less the case and those folks who used to enjoy that advantage give it up very reluctantly. Consequently gender equality is still a struggle against the people that truly believed they were more deserving simply by virtue of being male. And those people have created an environment where looking down on women is accepted (whether as humor or discrimination) because they are angry of losing their implicit advantage. Now we also see a great deal of misogyny from people who have never and currently do not fall into this category of reluctantly giving up power and they simply don't realize that that sort of behavior isn't okay. It's not funny, it's not warranted and it's not fair. I think at the end of the day it's a mechanism by which people can believe they have elevated status even if that attitude and realization never manifests itself consciously.

On a side note, I'm dating my beset friend right now. We've only been dating half a year or so, but have been friends since we were 6. Now, we are both really big believers in equality between men and women, Real, honest parity between the genders. While, I know that she has helped a lot of times to bend my thinking and my outlook towards hers (because usually she has the better one) I know that the belief of equality is something that I came to without her influence. And that makes me happy. =D

\I guess that was a lame story.
 
2012-12-14 02:19:04 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: Molavian: freewill: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

Execute him.

Rape him.

With a chainsaw.


Well, we don't wan't to give him an "out," do we? That would inflict a lot of damage and not give his body a chance to shut down, he needs to be raped by a man merely threatening him with a screwdriver and a blowtorch-
 
2012-12-14 02:28:28 AM  

NativeDaughter: @ Uchiha & Maggie: Another issue is our habit of questioning or blaming the victim for doing the wrong thing, being in the wrong place, wearing the wrong kind of clothing, enjoying the wrong amounts of alcohol, being outside at the wrong time of the day, reacting the wrong way, being with the wrong person, etc., intsead of having real, serious discussions on how to curb or avoid the formation of the behaviors and thought patterns that lead to this kind of violence.

It's the abuser/perpetrator that needs to be discussed (whether male or female). When we finally move away from scrutinizing every behavioral nuance of the victim, we might start making some foreward progress. Note, that's not the same thing as vetting the allegations made by the victim. That has to be done to avoid prosecuting and punishing the innocent. It seems like every time a story like this (the actual assault), the story focuses on what the victim did wrong or could have done better and almost NO time is dedicated to discussing the abuser and the larger societal issues tied into these types of assaults and events.


You are absolutely right. Why do we do this?
I don't know that I have an answer off of the top of my head, it's almost like a sickness. I'll have to think about this.
 
2012-12-14 02:31:31 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I think the misogyny has two origins. One in essentially the education and what have you already discussed. The other is a similar origin that general discrimination stems from. Not too long ago being a white, straight, male in this country bestowed upon the lucky a significant advantage (and to an extent still does) . But it used to guarantee you were one step ahead of others when being considered for any arrangement or position where meritocracy is supposed to be the guiding principle. It was just understood and accepted that one was more qualified, or even if less qualified was a better choice. These days that's very much so less the case and those folks who used to enjoy that advantage give it up very reluctantly. Consequently gender equality is still a struggle against the people that truly believed they were more deserving simply by virtue of being male. And those people have created an environment where looking down on women is accepted (whether as humor or discrimination) because they are angry of losing their implicit advantage. Now we also see a great deal of misogyny from people who have never and currently do not fall into this category of reluctantly giving up power and they simply don't realize that that sort of behavior isn't okay. It's not funny, it's not warranted and it's not fair. I think at the end of the day it's a mechanism by which people can believe they have elevated status even if that attitude and realization never manifests itself consciously.

On a side note, I'm dating my beset friend right now. We've only been dating half a year or so, but have been friends since we were 6. Now, we are both really big believers in equality between men and women, Real, honest parity between the genders. While, I know that she has helped a lot of times to bend my thinking and my outlook towards hers (because usually she has the better one) I know that the belief of equality is something that I came to without her influence. And that makes me happy. =D


That sound's about right with the old boy network still in place but losing ground slowly.

And that's sweet : )
 
2012-12-14 02:35:51 AM  
ftfa: "I'm not a gynecologist, but I can tell you something," the judge said, according to documents released Thursday. "If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

"That tells me that the victim in this case, although she wasn't necessarily willing, she didn't put up a fight."

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."



What. The. Fark.
An admonishment?!? This idiot should obviously be fired for gross incompetence, as he clearly has no judgment to speak of.

/yes, I know I'm probably preaching to the choir, but... just... damn what an ignorant moron
 
2012-12-14 02:36:48 AM  

ciberido:
The idea that there is "illegitimate rape" than women secretly enjoy and/or the woman's body can "shut that whole thing down" to prevent pregnancy has been around a long time.


From the Link: "one of Britain's earliest legal texts, written in about 1290, included a clause based on this bit of folk wisdom: "If, however, the woman should have conceived at the time alleged in the appeal, it abates, for without a woman's consent she could not conceive.""

Holy crap, more than 7 centuries. This judge needs to be dragged out from the Middle Ages.
 
2012-12-14 02:38:53 AM  
Those remarks are not outdated. To be outdated, would require they were correct in some sense at some point in time. Those remarks have never been correct.

Honestly, holding a civil service or public post like judge (or what have you) should require annual IQ and ethics tests to get the job and keep it. The people deserve to be served competently and more accurately, should demand such standards of service be the rule and norm.

So appalling such ignorant and moronic people get posts higher than burger-flipper at McDonald's and truthfully, McD's is probably too far above of their paygrade to handle.
 
2012-12-14 02:40:24 AM  
Way too many people don't have Brick and Silly on ignore. Or didn't before this tread. I myself learned today about the disease that is Zeroply, but I had it removed.
 
2012-12-14 02:41:41 AM  
I think a big part of the problem is the shift we made in the sixties (maybe) in out criminal justice system where we stopped trying to rehabilitate the guilty and we just plain wanted to punish them Nixon's "Law and Order" campaign, which incidentally also had very heavy racial overtones in the wake of the end of Jim Crow laws and civil rights awakening. We blame the victim because (partially) we want to believe that these things don't have to happen. Partially at this point in the trial where the guy is guilty we suddenly totally dehumanize the perpetrator, once he's guilty we can straight up call him the bad guy.Once he's the bad guy he's no longer a person, he's a monster. And obviously a monster is gonna do what a monster is gonna do, and, like, everyone knows that so it's your fault for being around the monster. What did you expect to happen? He's a monster. Once we've decided that the bad guy is simply a monster and that the victim shouldn't have been around the monster we can start scrutinizing every little thing that the victim did wrong. You can;t look at what the bad guy did, so now a monster and as such his actions and motivations are no longer under scrutiny; there's no point since a monster is a monster. But we can find a lot of ways that the victim could have been better than the victim wouldn't have been a victim. I guess that since you only get to look at one person's actions and reasoning, you have to look at it with a fine tooth comb. I think also it's a morbid desire to hear and know all the details.

I sure hope that all made sense,
 
2012-12-14 02:50:40 AM  

Ilmarinen: Way too many people don't have Brick and Silly on ignore. Or didn't before this tread. I myself learned today about the disease that is Zeroply, but I had it removed.


There's been a rush of new alts since the election. "The Romney will win in a landslide" crowd forgot that everyone would take screenshots of their farkwittage and now they can't say anything without everyone just pointing and laughing.

They have, of course, done the brave and honest thing - run away and come back later pretending to be someone else.
 
2012-12-14 02:56:48 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: And that's sweet : )


I'm so wildly and crazily in love with her, and she loves me too, And I've been in love with her for years, and it turned out that she had been just as in love with me and we just never quite shared it. I earnestly think that we are one of those really lucky perfect couples. We compliment each other so well that we don't doubt for a moment that we are soul mates. And it's so awesome to be dating my best friend, we already know everything about each other. Know how to communicate, know what makes the other person happy and an honest desire to follow through on whatever, just to make the other happy. Unfortunately we live 400 miles away from each other =( and that won;t be changing anytime soon, though eventually. But we see each other at least every month. And also I have discovered that since we are a bit separated I get to write her and mail her love letters! and love poems! I even went out and bought really nice stationary and a quill pen and a little ink well, the kinda thing where you need to dip the quill pen into the ink fr every few words, So besides the texts and emails and hone calls, I also write love letter and love poems with a quill pen and snail mail them; kickin' it old school. The little extra effort is totally worth it to make her feel special. And I totally imagine us spending our whole lives in silly puppy dog complete and utter love for each other like high school sweethearts but we've earned the right to act that silly. and I don't think our feelings are ever not going to feel that way.

..
\ rambling again.
\\Love her so much ♥ =D
 
2012-12-14 03:00:15 AM  
I could go on and on and on and share cute stories and cute photos. instead I'll just share a cute photo, and it's extra cute because it wasn't intentional.

i451.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-14 03:00:54 AM  

Tigger: There's been a rush of new alts since the election. "The Romney will win in a landslide" crowd forgot that everyone would take screenshots of their farkwittage and now they can't say anything without everyone just pointing and laughing.

They have, of course, done the brave and honest thing - run away and come back later pretending to be someone else.


acm.hdu.edu.cn
 
2012-12-14 03:03:16 AM  

ciberido: Apos: "If somebody doesn't want to have intercourse,the body shuts down...."

*Closes eyes* Oh shiat.....It's communicable!

Sigh.... I have to post this ad AGAIN?


Whoa. Hadn't seen that.
 
2012-12-14 03:09:48 AM  
A lot of it is hindsight, Uchiha. People are looking at an event after the fact, at which point it's very easy to pick apart the series of events that appear, before us, like a neat little narrative. You can point to places in the timeline where the victim could have done "_______" instead. It's like the dramatic irony employed in some books, movies, and plays. The audience knows that the main character is heading toward his or her doom because they were told the outcome of the story at the beginning. What makes the spectacle enjoyable and entertaining is the knowledge that the character doesn't know what is inevitably going to happen.

When we see these stories, we imagine what we might have done differently with the benefit of hindsight. We know there's a date-rapist hanging out at the bar, or that hubby is going to come home angry and drunk, so we make choices that avoid our getting hurt or killed. We don't go there. We don't date him. We don't pick a fight over something trivial. While all of those actions may, in fact, help avoid being assaulted or killed, they're not realistic. Most people have the mindset that bad things don't happen to them, it happens to other people. They're the star of the 'Me' show, and the star can't die or be brutalized, it's unimaginable. So they go about their lives, walking into potentially dangerous situations unprepared or unaware and bad shiat happens all the same. Because there is no 'Me' show, and you are the star of nothing. When you're just going about your day, you have no way of knowing what crazy shiat might be laying in wait. So what are you supposed to do? Stay inside your house 24/7, refusing to interact with other human beings just in case. That's insane.

The other problem is the misconception that abusers/rapists/etc. walk around with gigantic signs advertising their moral shortcomings and pathologies to the public. How could she not know he was a rapist? How could he not know she was all kinds of crazy? Because crazy, violent people often perfect the art of "maintaining" for the benefit of their own sweet selves. If you act crazy or violent, people will avoid you or have you locked up. Where's the fun in that? How did she not know he was going to turn into a controlling, abusive dickbag who passed the evening hours beating the unholy Hell out of her?

Because she wasn't made of magic, you farkwits.

Honestly... I think a lot of it comes from the distrust of rape victims in general. We've been ammending and revising our national definition of "rape" for a long, long time and it was only recently that a husband forcing his wife to have sex was legally recognized as rape. Until then, the simple act of being married was considered legal consent to any (vaginal) sex act demanding by either partner. How you felt on a particular day, how violent your partner was, whether or not you consented to the individual act was moot. You were married and therefore property. How could a wife deny her husband? She's his wife, and therefore he is granted unlimited and unfettered access to her body regardless of her opinion on the matter. It's still a murky, gray area for A LOT of people.

And yes, misogyny plays a part, whether people want to admit it or not. A woman who dresses or acts a certain way is deemed a "slut" and deserves whatever she gets because she was "teasing" or "enticing" her assailant. Men are marginalized as mindless animals incapable of self-control the second a titty or upper thigh is revealed. It's insulting to any civilized, normal human being. I don't want to hear about the "reproductive imperitive" either. Rape and sexual assault have NOTHING to do with biology or sexual desire. Like any violent or abusive act, rape is about power and control, about humiliating your victim. No more, no less.
 
2012-12-14 03:12:54 AM  
How can anyone fight back when they only issue gun carry permits to law enforcement or politically well connected in Los Angeles County?

 
2012-12-14 03:21:50 AM  
NativeDaughter
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Good show. Also, just so you know for the future, what you referred to as dramatic irony, and it was a great description of the situation has a technical term for media, whether it's a poem or a sonnet or a play or a mover, it's called "divine irony" It's not often one gets to use the term, but if the opportunity every shows up, there it is.

You picked up on something that I have thought about a lot and I think you would agree with me. I think TV and movies have really warped people. They don't have a clear outlook on the world because they see everything through the filter of being on TV or in a movie themselves. Everything can be easily explained. There is good and bad. The protagonist (whoever) is always ok in the end. I think it has a negative effect on relationships because Disney and their Ilk have taught men and women what a relationship is and should be, as opposed to a relationship grounded in reality. Then when things start not being perfect fights break out because someone is obviously to blame when the future doesn't play out like a romantic comedy.

Anyways, you summed up very well the blame the victim angle, and you did a much better ob than I did.
 
2012-12-14 03:25:25 AM  
From Le Wikipedia:

Dramatic irony: This type of irony is the device of giving the spectator an item of information that at least one of the characters in the narrative is unaware of (at least consciously), thus placing the spectator a step ahead of at least one of the characters. Dramatic irony has three stages-installation, exploitation, and resolution (often also called preparation, suspension, and resolution)-producing dramatic conflict in what one character relies or appears to rely upon, the contrary of which is known by observers (especially the audience; sometimes to other characters within the drama) to be true. In summary, it means that the reader/watcher/listener knows something that one or more of the characters in the piece is not aware of.

I couldn't actually find a definition for "divine irony."

/English Major, amongst other things. :P
 
2012-12-14 03:31:03 AM  

NativeDaughter: From Le Wikipedia:

Dramatic irony: This type of irony is the device of giving the spectator an item of information that at least one of the characters in the narrative is unaware of (at least consciously), thus placing the spectator a step ahead of at least one of the characters. Dramatic irony has three stages-installation, exploitation, and resolution (often also called preparation, suspension, and resolution)-producing dramatic conflict in what one character relies or appears to rely upon, the contrary of which is known by observers (especially the audience; sometimes to other characters within the drama) to be true. In summary, it means that the reader/watcher/listener knows something that one or more of the characters in the piece is not aware of.

I couldn't actually find a definition for "divine irony."

/English Major, amongst other things. :P


Interesting. I was taught the term in my senior HS english class. But you are right, I can't find it either. I've totally been using divine irony (in my head) all these years when I should have been using dramatic irony. Thanks!
I was so certain it was a real term. And seriously thanks for correcting me, I'm now a little less dumb.
I'm goon go check my OED...
 
2012-12-14 03:34:33 AM  
Couldn't find it in the OED... I guess my teacher lied to me, I'll be damned.

thanks again! I'll never use that term again.
 
2012-12-14 03:37:03 AM  
It was taught to me with respect to the idea of the viewer being omnipotent, and as such they have insight into the stories happenings that the characters don't. Certain things are funny, or dramatic or i guess ironic, only because of that top down or omnipotent POV.
 
2012-12-14 03:37:23 AM  
lol, you're welcome. I had the same thought, "Oh shiat, have I been using the wrong terminology for all these years?!"

Maybe you hybridized Dramatic Irony with Dante's Divine Comedy to get Divine Irony?

/don't beat yourself up
//terminology is pretty much pointless except in the odd conversation like this one. the point is that you understood the concept.
 
2012-12-14 03:44:41 AM  
I've always thought what's important is ideas. Being able to convey ideas whether it's stories or knowledge or even threats. Sometimes it's very important to be as exacting as possible, say in technical documentation or when making a nuanced argument. Sometimes you can play fast and loose as long as you get across the big picture. Most of the time when corrections are being made it very, very rarely serves the purpose of clarifying an ambiguous point. It almost always is someone wanting to sound smart (the case here I suppose) , and/or act snakry (like ever grammar nazi ever), or to be a tool and ignore all of an argument because one word is wrong. Often a combination of all three. Anyways getting someone else to understand what you are trying to tell them is what matters everything else is details.
 
2012-12-14 03:47:16 AM  
Was that wrong?

s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com
 
2012-12-14 03:50:37 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I've always thought what's important is ideas. Being able to convey ideas whether it's stories or knowledge or even threats. Sometimes it's very important to be as exacting as possible, say in technical documentation or when making a nuanced argument. Sometimes you can play fast and loose as long as you get across the big picture. Most of the time when corrections are being made it very, very rarely serves the purpose of clarifying an ambiguous point. It almost always is someone wanting to sound smart (the case here I suppose) , and/or act snakry (like ever grammar nazi ever), or to be a tool and ignore all of an argument because one word is wrong. Often a combination of all three. Anyways getting someone else to understand what you are trying to tell them is what matters everything else is details.


Semantics ;)
 
2012-12-14 03:51:25 AM  
heh.
 
2012-12-14 03:52:07 AM  
So can you think of a way to solve the education problem?
I'm stuck at the people in power need to make the changes, and they won't because then they lose power.
 
2012-12-14 03:57:02 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: WOW I just wrote MUCH more than I intended when I responded to you.


And I read most of it too.

And I'm too lazy to look up numbers, but we're seeing a lot more women in government today than we did 25 years ago. We still don't have a female president but there are female Supreme Court justices and quite a few in Congress and state legislatures and city councils.

And this is how it starts - you get them elected at the lower levels of government before you elect them to the White House. I've been saying this for years about 3rd parties as well.

If you think both Democrats and Republicans are corrupt, are you voting for your city council? A funny thing happened in my town in the last year or so. We voted to ban Medical Marijuana Dispensaries in 2011. Then in 2012 when everyone showed up to vote for president we reversed that ban.

Why is that? Where were all those people in 2011? Too lazy to bother to vote is probably the correct answer. I get it - voting is hard especially if you're not going to vote based on party lines. And when I say voting is hard, I mean researching the candidates/issues is hard. The actual voting part is easy. They send me a ballot in the mail. I simply have to fill it out and return it.

The president isn't the only thing on the ballot, but too many people seem to think it's the only thing that matters and then they biatch and moan that their vote doesn't matter because everyone else in their state is going to vote for the "other guy" or they know their state is going to vote for their candidate for the White House so they don't bother to vote based on that faulty logic.

Bush and Clinton were both governors before they got elected to the White House. Obama was a senator. So not all of us got to vote for or against them early on in their political careers but some of us did - and many of us didn't because they figured it was just for governor or senate.
 
2012-12-14 04:03:22 AM  
I agree that there are more women now, and that their numbers will continue to grow. But do you think parity is on the near horizon (our lifetime) or on the far horizon (multiple generations away, in their lifetimes).
If it's the near horizon, why? (I'm really curious)
 
2012-12-14 04:21:06 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: \ rambling again.


It sounds like you have pretty good cause to do so. No joke: I think that's one of the most unabashedly sweet, heartfelt posts I've ever seen on Fark. It's somehow kinda... well, heartwarming and inspirational, I guess (even if that sounds silly)... to see such ardent devotion expressed so unreservedly like that, here of all places. Thanks.

/I apologize if I'm being creepy or anything by intruding on the exchange between you two
 
2012-12-14 04:21:53 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I agree that there are more women now, and that their numbers will continue to grow. But do you think parity is on the near horizon (our lifetime) or on the far horizon (multiple generations away, in their lifetimes).
If it's the near horizon, why? (I'm really curious)


I just checked my city's website. 4 males on city council and 2 females (not counting the mayor), but then again our mayor is female so I'd say that's close enough to equality. Well, 3 females actually, since the mayor is a part of the city council. 4-3 isn't too bad especially when the highest office is held by a female.

And that's a horrible way to put it since I don't believe it's a gender war. People are probably more interested in whether there's a "D" or ad "R" next to their names.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:01 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: So can you think of a way to solve the education problem?
I'm stuck at the people in power need to make the changes, and they won't because then they lose power.


I think there needs to be more positive role models for young people to aspire to. I think it was from a Cracked article, but I remember reading somewhere that, at some point, our country moved away from celebrating people like scientists, authors, and innovators, and started worshipping the most vapid, flash-in-the-pan mouthbreathers that society could dredge up. That's not an elitist criticism of pop culture or modern society; it's historical fact.

And not that I'm a huge fan of his, but Bill Maher had an interesting thought (and I'm seriously paraphrasing because I'm much too tired to look it up...), but he claimed that we've become so overly sensitive and politically correct in everything that we do and say that we've abandoned common sense. We're terrified of saying "System A is better than System B" because we might offend someone. Science is better than any belief system that is unfounded in reality. Facts are better than feelings. Etcetera, etcetera.

Common sense would say this is a bigger problem then "Women dress slutty, that's why they're assaulted." Facts show that most women who are the victims of sexual assault are not dressed in any particularly provocative style. They're usually assaulted by an acquaintance, usually inside of a home. The idea that rapists are these seedy, almost inhuman "monsters" (as you put it) that anyone with a brain should be able to immediately recognize and therefore avoid is unfounded in reality. That's not a Fem-Nazi man-hating opinion. That's fact. Rapists look just as varied as any other group of people.

I don't know... it just seems like men and women on either side of this issue are so quick to be offended ("YOU JUST WANNA BLAME WOMEN FOR BEING SEXUALLY LIBERATED!" versus "YOU JUST WANNA LUMP ALL MEN TOGETHER AS WOMEN-HATING RAPE-MONSTERS!") and then the knee-jerk defensive responses in answer to the perceived offense totally derails any productive conversation that we could have... Like how to teach young people how to properly manage and deal with intense emotion (like anger), how to resolve conflicts in a safe, sane way, and what to do if you discover you're in a bad situation and need to get out. We need to, as a society, provide real protection for people (men, women, and/or children) trying to leave an abusive relationship, and we need to make sure that people understand that their case isn't sooper speshul and oh-so-different from whatever anecdotal story they heard on the news, in Health Ed, etc., and that their abuser "didn't mean it," or "really, actually loves [them], and he/she didn't mean it." We need better psychological care for people who have serious mental issues that often lead to these kinds of situations.

We need to teach people to be responsible, whole, and healthy. It's no secret that children who grow up in a household where someone is being physically abused often turn into abusers (or victims) themselves later on. It's one thing to punish an abuser, and another to actually unteach a learned behavior and then supplant it with something better.

Frankly, we need to be instilling more self confidence in our children; boys AND girls. Boys should not be told that being "manly" is the same thing as being violent. We've taken the nobility out of strength and replaced it with pettiness and bully behavior. We've convinced men that they're not capable of controlling themselves, and that they're slaves to their dicks. Yes, humans are (like all animals) sexual beings, and there's nothing wrong with desiring or having sex as a consenting adult with another (or multiple other) consenting adults. But linking violent sexual assault with anything even remotely natural or normal is sick.

I worked in the Sex Offense Registry in my former city. A lot of the guys that came in would, inevitably, tell me their story as I set up their profiles in the state online registry and got their files started for our office. A lot of them were young, and their victims were even younger. When asked how the whole situation even got to the point of illegal activity, they would inevitably reply "But he/she said they were cool with it. She consented." I'd point out he or she was underage (sometimes drastically). "But they said yes. They wanted to." There's a disconnect for a lot of people between saying 'yes' and being legally able to give consent. Others would say "She wanted it. You're a woman, tell me you don't dress a certain way to get attention." Sure, I dress a certain way to get attention. That doesn't mean I want to be or deserve to be sexually assaulted. There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant. "If she does this, this, and this... she must want it, and if she doesn't, too bad. She provoked me, and I just reacted."

At the very end of the day, you have to reach out to people when they're still young and receptive to accepting big concepts like this. Men are not wild, slavering animals laying in wait to rape anything that moves. They are responsible for controlling their own bodies and respecting the bodies of others. Women are not deceitful little Jezebels who are out to "get" men, and secretly want or deserve to be assaulted. They are responsible for controlling their own bodies and respecting the bodies of others.

This isn't a Male Problem or a Female Problem. It's a People Problem. People are hard to fix, but that's no excuse for accepting the way things are now, or giving up without ever trying.

/seriously, no more tirades, rants, or tangents for me tonight.
//back to work
 
2012-12-14 04:34:08 AM  

Happy Hours: Uchiha_Cycliste: I agree that there are more women now, and that their numbers will continue to grow. But do you think parity is on the near horizon (our lifetime) or on the far horizon (multiple generations away, in their lifetimes).
If it's the near horizon, why? (I'm really curious)

I just checked my city's website. 4 males on city council and 2 females (not counting the mayor), but then again our mayor is female so I'd say that's close enough to equality. Well, 3 females actually, since the mayor is a part of the city council. 4-3 isn't too bad especially when the highest office is held by a female.

And that's a horrible way to put it since I don't believe it's a gender war. People are probably more interested in whether there's a "D" or ad "R" next to their names.


I see what you are saying, but do you think local level politics is really a fair comparison to use with respect to national and international politics. To make an analogy: on the local level the D and R monikers are still both totally fair game, and each candidate deserves to be looked at and evaluated on both their words and past actions On the national lever, however an R by your name is poison. My point being that local level is not necessarily a representative microcosm of what is seen at the national level. It's fantastic ` that your city is as equal to parity as an odd number can get. But how long do you think it will be until half of congress and the senate is female too? I wouldn't say there is a gender war, but I would say that men and women are not viewed equally like they should be. And I think there is still a LOT of misogyny on the national level. I mean, look at how the Republicans appear to have a rape party platform these days. I think we are moving towards real equality between the sexes, but we have a long way to go yet .
 
2012-12-14 04:50:06 AM  

Isildur: Uchiha_Cycliste: \ rambling again.

It sounds like you have pretty good cause to do so. No joke: I think that's one of the most unabashedly sweet, heartfelt posts I've ever seen on Fark. It's somehow kinda... well, heartwarming and inspirational, I guess (even if that sounds silly)... to see such ardent devotion expressed so unreservedly like that, here of all places. Thanks.

/I apologize if I'm being creepy or anything by intruding on the exchange between you two


No worries, and also thanks *blushes*
So a month ago, the day after voting we went to my brothers place in santa cruz in order to hang out with my brother and his family (wife and two daughters, 6 & 8yo). the last time she was in the bay area (and santa cruz) was days after the youngest had been born, So it was great to take her back, When we were sitting there playing mastermind together me, her and my nieces, I realized that that Daisy was 6,and that it was the same age that Andrea and I had met, and it totally freaked me out to think of us as having been that small, and to think about we had been friends and best friends since. It was truly a freaky experience. We will both be thirty in the next two months. And we've been there for each other and carried and helped and cared for each other so much in the past. that it was just sort of amazing to think about how important we have been to each other since we were so little. It was like honestly thinking about a whole lifetime at one go and simultaneously being so happy that we have had each other.

This may sound odd, but this is her first real relationship and I'm her first real boyfriend, the whole deeply committed, long term, likely spend our whole lives together sort of thing. And what makes me happiest is realizing that she's never had her heart badly broken and god willing never will. She is going to be one of the few and rare and lucky girls to be totally head over heels in love and never in her whole life had her heart broken. How cool is that? I love her so much, and I want her to never ever have to go through that pain.

On a sort of side note, even before we started dating I've wanted to spend my whole life with her. Even if it ended up being just as friends, and I'm so happy that;s not the case, but she's my best friend and I love spending time with her, and there's never been any doub in my mind that I want to spend the rest of my life with her because I love being with her. I've been in a couple of serous, very serious relationships before and IU though I knew what love was, but I had apparently only scratched the surface. It's like love is no longer a strong enough word to express my emotions and there is something else there so deep and unconditional and ineffable, I'm amazed it can exist. ♥
 
2012-12-14 04:59:23 AM  
NativeDaughter
Good luck with your work and I hope we can continue this conversation later. I totally agree all those things have to change and I would even envelop them under the umbrella of a better educated populace. But *HOW* do we go about getting these changes put in place? It's going to require a lot of money and a lot of political willpower. What steps need to be taken to gain access to that money and desire for change so that we can start down the road of fixing these problems?
Try as I might I can't figure out a way to get the ball rolling =(
 
2012-12-14 05:07:49 AM  
and it's bed time. Good night everyone, lets try to kick things back up tomorrow.
 
2012-12-14 05:10:31 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Isildur: Uchiha_Cycliste: \ rambling again.

It sounds like you have pretty good cause to do so. No joke: I think that's one of the most unabashedly sweet, heartfelt posts I've ever seen on Fark. It's somehow kinda... well, heartwarming and inspirational, I guess (even if that sounds silly)... to see such ardent devotion expressed so unreservedly like that, here of all places. Thanks.

/I apologize if I'm being creepy or anything by intruding on the exchange between you two

No worries, and also thanks *blushes*
So a month ago, the day after voting we went to my brothers place in santa cruz in order to hang out with my brother and his family (wife and two daughters, 6 & 8yo). the last time she was in the bay area (and santa cruz) was days after the youngest had been born, So it was great to take her back, When we were sitting there playing mastermind together me, her and my nieces, I realized that that Daisy was 6,and that it was the same age that Andrea and I had met, and it totally freaked me out to think of us as having been that small, and to think about we had been friends and best friends since. It was truly a freaky experience. We will both be thirty in the next two months. And we've been there for each other and carried and helped and cared for each other so much in the past. that it was just sort of amazing to think about how important we have been to each other since we were so little. It was like honestly thinking about a whole lifetime at one go and simultaneously being so happy that we have had each other.

This may sound odd, but this is her first real relationship and I'm her first real boyfriend, the whole deeply committed, long term, likely spend our whole lives together sort of thing. And what makes me happiest is realizing that she's never had her heart badly broken and god willing never will. She is going to be one of the few and rare and lucky girls to be totally head over heels in love and never in her whole life had her heart broken. How cool ...


I'm in a similar, unbelievabley, lovey-dovey, makes-all-of-our-friends-want-to-puke relationship. People say they're dating or married to their "best friend" all the time, but I don't think a lot of them mean it... it just sounds nice. My fiance and I routinely spurn our friends and family to just hang out together, go on adventures, take little mini-vacations... We've been good friends since we were 14 and only started dating 3 years ago (both of us were 25), but we both knew immediately that this was it for both of us. There is absolutely no way I will ever find anyone I love as much and am as compatible with as him. He's pulled me out of some dark places (like after leaving the PD), and I've done the same for him (dealing with the deaths of his oldest sister and mom, and the drug abuse of his middle sister). We joke that if the zombie apocalypse comes and we're not in the same place, we'll both probably die trying to reach the other.

It's overwhelming at times, because I always thought I was pretty independant, and mocked my friends who were gushing about their boyfriend or girlfriend. Romance movies and novels left my eyes firmly pointed at the ceiling. I didn't "get it" because I hadn't ever come close to feeling like that prior to actually re-uniting with him as an adult. He was sexy, and smart, and actually, genuinely funny. He stood for things, even if I challenged him on some of his beliefs... I respected that he bothered having any and had sound arguments to defend them. I dunno. We just click. The first time I called my mom and mentioned him, she knew.

"You sound different. This is different, isn't it?"
"Maybe. I dunno." -blusssshhhing-

My parents are the same way with each other (his weren't... but that's a whole other story). My dad says he fell in love with my mom at first sight (they're highschool sweethearts, married at 19 and 20) when he saw her at a formal dance. It took her longer to warm up to him (she was very preppy, he was a L.I. surfer), but they're eachother's best friend, without a doubt. I guess I always worried that I would never be in a relationship that measured up to the standard my parents set, but I got lucky.

Anyway... glad you're in a similar boat, Uchiha. It's nice knowing that someone loves you unconditionally, moreso when a family tie and obligation to do so isn't a factor. They really, really, honestly, truly love you because they just do. Even better when it's mutual :P

/here's to bliss! :D
//fark! I said no more tangents!
 
2012-12-14 05:29:09 AM  

NativeDaughter: Sure, I dress a certain way to get attention. That doesn't mean I want to be or deserve to be sexually assaulted. There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant. "If she does this, this, and this... she must want it, and if she doesn't, too bad. She provoked me, and I just reacted."



I wonder if part of the problem is a sort of empathy disconnect, arising from a sort of... I dunno... some sort of culture-instilled exoticization of the other sex, as if they're psychologically some sort of alien species. I wonder if more can be done to teach more kids/teens to understand that members of the opposite sex aren't so vastly different as to exempt one from needing to engage in the natural sort of imagining-yourself-in-the-other-person's-shoes that is normal in social interaction.

A person saying, in actual seriousness, something like "Women... who can understand 'em!" is just... wrong... on some deep level. Obviously there are differences in experiences that can be challenging to mentally bridge, but there are differences in experiences between any two individuals, and one should always be trying (to some extent, at least) to understand other people's emotions and motivations - to abdicate that is irresponsible. No individual should just be mentally thrown in a conceptual bucket labeled "inscrutable" based merely on their sex.
 
2012-12-14 05:59:55 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: No worries, and also thanks *blushes*
So a month ago, the day after voting we went to my brothers place in santa cruz in order to hang out with my brother and his family (wife and two daughters, 6 & 8yo). the last time she was in the bay area (and santa cruz) was days after the youngest had been born, So it was great to take her back, When we were sitting there playing mastermind together me, her and my nieces, I realized that that Daisy was 6,and that it was the same age that Andrea and I had met, and it totally freaked me out to think of us as having been that small, and to think about we had been friends and best friends since. It was truly a freaky experience. We will both be thirty in the next two months. And we've been there for each other and carried and helped and cared for each other so much in the past. that it was just sort of amazing to think about how important we have been to each other since we were so little. It was like honestly thinking about a whole lifetime at one go and simultaneously being so happy that we have had each other.

This may sound odd, but this is her first real relationship and I'm her first real boyfriend, the whole deeply committed, long term, likely spend our whole lives together sort of thing. And what makes me happiest is realizing that she's never had her heart badly broken and god willing never will. She is going to be one of the few and rare and lucky girls to be totally head over heels in love and never in her whole life had her heart broken. How cool is that? I love her so much, and I want her to never ever have to go through that pain.

On a sort of side note, even before we started dating I've wanted to spend my whole life with her. Even if it ended up being just as friends, and I'm so happy that;s not the case, but she's my best friend and I love spending time with her, and there's never been any doub in my mind that I want to spend the rest of my life with her because I love being with her. I've been in a couple of serous, very serious relationships before and IU though I knew what love was, but I had apparently only scratched the surface. It's like love is no longer a strong enough word to express my emotions and there is something else there so deep and unconditional and ineffable, I'm amazed it can exist. ♥


Sounds like you have lot of great times ahead of you. You're clearly head-over-heels in love, and the fact that it's already a time-tested deep friendship is a wonderful thing.
 
2012-12-14 06:16:39 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I see what you are saying, but do you think local level politics is really a fair comparison to use with respect to national and international politics. To make an analogy: on the local level the D and R monikers are still both totally fair game, and each candidate deserves to be looked at and evaluated on both their words and past actions On the national lever, however an R by your name is poison. My point being that local level is not necessarily a representative microcosm of what is seen at the national level. It's fantastic ` that your city is as equal to parity as an odd number can get. But how long do you think it will be until half of congress and the senate is female too? I wouldn't say there is a gender war, but I would say that men and women are not viewed equally like they should be. And I think there is still a LOT of misogyny on the national level. I mean, look at how the Republicans appear to have a rape party platform these days. I think we are moving towards real equality between the sexes, but we have a long way to go yet .


people pick their poisons and "D' or "R" is going to be poison to some people no matter what. A candidate for the board of regents of a state college on my ballot basically said he tried to be non-partisan but adopted a political party because that was which way the wind blew in this state - and he keeps getting elected. His opponent from the other major party was such a dirtbag that I voted Libertarian for that position and of course he lost.

but getting back to local politics vs. national or international, most of the politicians in Washington didn't just run for their office without being elected to some office on a city or state level first.

I'd really like the GOP to disintegrate even though I do consider myself a conservative. If this rape rhetoric doesn't do it nothing will.

I just don't think Republicans represent conservatives anymore. That may sound odd since I'm in favor of marijuana legalization and gay marriage but I'm also for freedom and smaller government. We may have to raise taxes even though I don't like that idea. I also think we should lower government spending and that includes spending on the military.I think we should have a strong military, but I don't think we need to spend so much on it.

I'm probably sounding a bit like a Democrat now and that probably explains why I voted for more Democrats this past election than I ever have in the past, but I also carefully looked at each race and voted for a lot of 3rd party candidates as well.

And did I mention that we need to work them up from the local level before they get to the White House?

I really do want to see the GOP die off though. They should abandon these rape apologists and the religious nutjobs. It won't be an easy transition but I think it's already starting,

My voting district has a lot of unaffiliated voters even though we do tend to vote Democrat most of the time. I think it's a good sign that a lot of us have not pledged our loyalty to either major party.
 
2012-12-14 06:45:33 AM  
No means No,........unless it's a black man.
 
2012-12-14 07:05:15 AM  

Isildur: NativeDaughter: Sure, I dress a certain way to get attention. That doesn't mean I want to be or deserve to be sexually assaulted. There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant. "If she does this, this, and this... she must want it, and if she doesn't, too bad. She provoked me, and I just reacted."


I wonder if part of the problem is a sort of empathy disconnect, arising from a sort of... I dunno... some sort of culture-instilled exoticization of the other sex, as if they're psychologically some sort of alien species. I wonder if more can be done to teach more kids/teens to understand that members of the opposite sex aren't so vastly different as to exempt one from needing to engage in the natural sort of imagining-yourself-in-the-other-person's-shoes that is normal in social interaction.

A person saying, in actual seriousness, something like "Women... who can understand 'em!" is just... wrong... on some deep level. Obviously there are differences in experiences that can be challenging to mentally bridge, but there are differences in experiences between any two individuals, and one should always be trying (to some extent, at least) to understand other people's emotions and motivations - to abdicate that is irresponsible. No individual should just be mentally thrown in a conceptual bucket labeled "inscrutable" based merely on their sex.


Oh, definitely. In the Sex Offense Registry office, I noticed that almost every man or woman (yes, there are female sex offenders) who came in blamed the victim for their predicament. You almost never heard, "You know, I made a really bad decision and that's why I'm here. I shouldn't have done what I did." These are the people who are out of prison, who the police have to then monitor for however long their Tier group requires (my former state used a tier system, I'm not sure how other states do it). No one ever sat down with them and went through what happened, how their decisions negatively impacted their own lives AND the life or lives of the person or people they assaulted. Every now and then, one would come in who seemed to genuinely regret what they'd done, and who felt terrible for inflicting pain on another person... but they were rare, and you could almost see how the others in the room would regard them as a "traitor." Playing the victim card is easier. They were falsely accused (I'm not saying that some of them weren't, but almost all of them claim to be and that's just not statistically possible), she or he really actually wanted it, they have a drug or substance abuse problem, he or she was asking for it, their mommies didn't love them enough, whatever. Those all may be legitimate issues, but I think it's important that impressing the amount of damage done to their actual victims upon these abusers is somehow being missed in "the process." Great, they went to jail for 6 months, or 5 years, or 20. But they come out angrier and more bitter than when they went in, and that shiat is catching. They don't see themselves as the party responsible for their situation. It was someone else's fault, someone else needs to be the target of their anger, and rage because actually confronting the monstrous thing that they did to another person is too goddamn much.

I also believe that men in particular feel like they're being unfairly lumped in with these "bad guys" and that any criticism or highlighting of the FACT that men seriously assault women far more often than the other way 'round is unfair or another attempt by the man-hating Fem Nazis to convince the world that half of the human race are monsters waiting to strike. We know it's not all of you... not even the vast majority of you. But can you really blame women for being hyper-defensive when sexual assault or sexism is brought into play? How often are women, as an entire gender, declared to be "not as smart as" men? How often is the "new girl" at the office the subject of a "hotness factor" discussion? Why does it seem to not matter how butt fugly a guy is in relation to his professional success or reputation in the office, but the first thing that is usually discussed about a female employee is how hot they are? Is that all we are to you? It grates, and over time, some women learn to tune it out or laugh it off, or they masquerade as "one of the guys" who isn't offended by sexist jokes (how often do you hear a woman say "Pfft, I hate women..."?) Men produce sitcoms where the woman is beautiful and funny and somehow married to a doofus, and then MEN complain that they're portrayed unfairly on television and that all TV husbands are fat slobs lucky to have whatever Victoria Secret supermodel they cast as wifey... Somehow that's still the fault of Women. All of us. Somehow. It's like men feel as though they're losing something... An edge? Control? the upperhand? I don't know, I'm a chick. I guess I wouldn't like it if I felt like I was losing something either, but in the long run, I have to believe it's for the best.

And as much as men like to joke about how "crazy" women are in relationships, it seems to me that it's more often men who have completely psychological breaks when dumped or divorced. It's not often that a woman murders her husband, children, and then herself (yes, I know. It happens, just not OFTEN) because she lost her job or he threatened her with divorce papers... But how often do you see husbands or boyfriends doing this to his girlfriend/wife and their kids? Again, it comes back to that idea of entitlement. "How dare she leave ME. I'll show HER."

But saying any of this out loud or in a discussion is tantamount to being a man-hater. "Women do this stuff too! Look, here's an article proving it!" Yes, I acknowledge that women can be just as cruel as anyone else... but there is no getting around the FACT that men are more often the aggressor. No explanation of "but testosterone!" or "But evolution!" or "But nature!" or especially "But the Bible says....!" explains it away. Men are better and stronger than that. They are not slaves to hormones, history, the environment, religion, or impulse any more than women are and once you get rid of all those crutches you're left with the very difficult question of "Then why does this happen? What is going on that is leading to these kinds of situations?" Personally, I think it comes down to how children are indoctrinated to view themselves and their appropriate "gender role" almost from birth. Girls have girl toys. Boys have their toys. They're color coded and generally follow an old school pattern of "gender appropriate" careers or hobbies. Bless her heart, but my mother would panic when I would reject Barbie dolls in favor of GI Joes, Ninja Turtles, and (my favorite) Ghostbusters. She worried that I would be too "boyish" or -gasp!- even a lesbian. I was like... 5 years old, but these were legitimate concerns to her. I remember one of my male cousins being reprimanded by my uncle for playing with his sister's baby doll when we played "House." "Boys don't take care of the babies, give that back to your sister." My uncle wasn't a Neanderthal. He's a great person and loves his kids, but that's how HE had been conditioned to think. That continues through to adulthood and you get this constructed divide that separates the genders, with each viewing the other as "weird" or even alien. Inscrutable, as you said. For whatever reason, we have a hard time overcoming the conditioning that we experience as children.

So.... education. There's no reason that men and women can't agree that there are things inherently different between the sexes AND that there's nothing wrong with that. Morgan Freeman was once asked why he advocates for an end to Black History month in America. He replied that he doesn't see himself as a Black American. He's just an American. He's a person, and wants to be seen as a person, as Morgan. Not as Black American Morgan Freeman. I get that. I don't want to be seen first as a woman and then as a person. I'm a person. I'm me. Why isn't that enough? Why does either gender cling to this idea that Male or Female is more important than that? We're not on different teams and we're not at war. It's ridiculous. It's getting better (look at how far we've come just in the last 50 years...), but change never comes fast enough for the people eagerly awaiting it's arrival.

/BED TIME.
 
2012-12-14 07:07:22 AM  

Huggermugger: amquelbettamin: Fear induced vaginitis and tightening up is real, but a rapist angry enough wont care and shove in there dry and cramped.

What a moron you are. You think that using a word like 'vaginitis' makes you sound scientific, but you don't take the time to confirm the actual definition of the word. I'm not exactly sure what the concept you were attempting to convey with your faux-pas, but 'vaginitis' means a (generally) chronic infection of the vagina that results in a foul-smelling discharge, frequently accompanied by itching.

I can't possibly imagine how fear could "induce" a bacterial infection, but please do enlighten us.


You're right, I misspelled vaginismus.

You need to chill out
 
2012-12-14 07:21:16 AM  
"If someone doesn't want to have sexual intercourse, the body shuts down. The body will not permit that to happen unless a lot of damage in inflicted, and we heard nothing about that in this case.

How do people this stupid get put on the bench?

The judge, who has been on the Orange County Superior Court since 2000, also declared the rape "technical," and not "a real, live criminal case."

I wonder if he woudl call it a tehnical rape if someoen had a knife to his throat, or balls before they raped him?

I also wonder if he can point to where california law makes such a distinction?
 
2012-12-14 08:06:52 AM  
There's your proof that human filth can exist in any level of society.
 
2012-12-14 08:40:32 AM  

Karac: Theaetetus: EggSniper: Could a lawyer use this in a future case to demonstrate bias and demand a new judge? Could a lawyer use this for an older case on appeal to demonstrate bias and get a mistrial?

/Just curious if this could actually amount to more than a shaming

I would think that certainly, in any rape case going forward, the defense would move that the judge recuse himself, and probably appeal immediately if he doesn't.

... more likely, though, he'll simply never have another rape case on his docket. In cases of legitimate asshattery, Chief Justices have ways of shutting it down.

The prosecution will ask him to recuse himself. I don't see a defense lawyer asking for a new judge when the current one has a history of knocking off 2/3rd of the possible sentence for violent rapists with multiple priors.


Durr... You're right, of course. :)
 
2012-12-14 10:09:58 AM  
Let me guess....the judge in question lists his regligion as "Jedi Knight"
 
2012-12-14 10:20:35 AM  

MeanJean: ZeroPly

If a conservative says "the abortion doctor living at 237 Crosby Ln, Chesterfield, MO 63017 deserves to die", and someone guns her down in her front yard, that's somehow differerent from the conservative's intent that she die?

You would have a point if I had actually posted your address or any form of identifying information. But the fact of the matter is, I have no farking idea who you are, what you look like, or where you live, aside from you being in Missouri, a state containing over six million people.

Do you actually expect to hear your doorbell ring, and to open it to find me there grinning manically and cracking my knuckles?


This guy is headed over to his house right now!

www.starwarped.net
 
2012-12-14 11:22:50 AM  

NativeDaughter: I worked in the Sex Offense Registry in my former city. A lot of the guys that came in would, inevitably, tell me their story as I set up their profiles in the state online registry and got their files started for our office. A lot of them were young, and their victims were even younger. When asked how the whole situation even got to the point of illegal activity, they would inevitably reply "But he/she said they were cool with it. She consented." I'd point out he or she was underage (sometimes drastically). "But they said yes. They wanted to." There's a disconnect for a lot of people between saying 'yes' and being legally able to give consent. Others would say "She wanted it. You're a woman, tell me you don't dress a certain way to get attention." Sure, I dress a certain way to get attention. That doesn't mean I want to be or deserve to be sexually assaulted. There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant. "If she does this, this, and this... she must want it, and if she doesn't, too bad. She provoked me, and I just reacted."

 


Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'll get flamed for this, but when you said "There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant," it reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a while now.

I think a lot of our problems come from the fact that men NEED sex (or think they do) in a way women usually don't. I'm not saying that women don't like sex, or want sex, or enjoy sex, but I don't think most women are DRIVEN to have sex the way men are by their own bodies. Men see sex as an essential necessity, like food or drink or air. In turn, men tend to see sex as something they're ENTITLED to because they need it, in almost the same way that you or I feel entitled to a drink of water when we get thirsty. If I was over at a friend's house and asked for a drink of water and she said no, I'd be fairly resentful that she refused me.

On some level, some men (maybe a lot of men) resent all the women in their lives who have to ability to give them the sex that they "need" but "refuse" to do so. I think a few men start to go from resentment to hostility, anger, even hatred of all the women who could give them sex but don't, because in their minds, withholding sex is a selfish or cruel thing to do. They start to feel that women have wronged them by denying them something they need. And I suspect that that's the source of a lot of the rape and misogyny in the world.

Of course, this theory (if it even deserves the name) depends on the idea that men's sex drive is significantly more urgent than women's, and I am not sure that that point has really been proven.
 
2012-12-14 11:27:10 AM  
Nothing like countering this guy's underreaction to the crime by overreacting and saying he should be raped or killed. If this is considered the appropriate reaction then, well it just cheapens the story. Now instead of taking a reasonable look at exactly what went wrong, we have people blaming white men for this guy's views, and saying rape is a reasonable punishment for someone who has unsympathetic views towards rape victims. Is the contradiction there completely lost on your guys, or is rape only sad when it happens to anyone who isn't a white male?

Yeah, this guy's statements were absurd, but so were a lot of the comments on Fark.
 
2012-12-14 11:45:32 AM  

OgreMagi: And why do they build roads and run power lines? Because there are businesses or homes. And the homes won't be built if there are no jobs. It's not unusual for a large business in a rural area to build their own road to connect to the public roads. And those track houses get the roads because the investors think they will sell lots of houses and putting in roads is required by building codes.

You are thinking backwards.


no. i am not. most of the major major roadbuilding projects in US history have occured before the businesses were there that needed the roads. the Eisenhower Highway system is a grand example of this.
 
2012-12-14 12:00:56 PM  
So he thinks my body will shut down if a man is legitimately raping me.

Yes, because I have a kill switch in my vagina that is only activated with an unwelcome erect penis.
 
2012-12-14 12:14:43 PM  
irishFarmer, you are using way too many pronouns and the intent of your sentence/statement is lost. I have no idea who's doing what and why in your post.

ciberido: NativeDaughter: I worked in the Sex Offense Registry in my former city. A lot of the guys that came in would, inevitably, tell me their story as I set up their profiles in the state online registry and got their files started for our office. A lot of them were young, and their victims were even younger. When asked how the whole situation even got to the point of illegal activity, they would inevitably reply "But he/she said they were cool with it. She consented." I'd point out he or she was underage (sometimes drastically). "But they said yes. They wanted to." There's a disconnect for a lot of people between saying 'yes' and being legally able to give consent. Others would say "She wanted it. You're a woman, tell me you don't dress a certain way to get attention." Sure, I dress a certain way to get attention. That doesn't mean I want to be or deserve to be sexually assaulted. There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant. "If she does this, this, and this... she must want it, and if she doesn't, too bad. She provoked me, and I just reacted." 


Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'll get flamed for this, but when you said "There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant," it reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a while now.

I think a lot of our problems come from the fact that men NEED sex (or think they do) in a way women usually don't. I'm not saying that women don't like sex, or want sex, or enjoy sex, but I don't think most women are DRIVEN to have sex the way men are by their own bodies. Men see sex as an essential necessity, like food or drink or air. In turn, men tend to see sex as something they're ENTITLED to because they need it, in almost the same way that you or I feel entitled to a drink of water when we get thirsty. If I was over at a friend's house and asked for a drink of water and she said no, I'd be fairly resentful that she refused me.

On some level, some men (maybe a lot of men) resent all the women in their lives who have to ability to give them the sex that they "need" but "refuse" to do so. I think a few men start to go from resentment to hostility, anger, even hatred of all the women who could give them sex but don't, because in their minds, withholding sex is a selfish or cruel thing to do. They start to feel that women have wronged them by denying them something they need. And I suspect that that's the source of a lot of the rape and misogyny in the world.

Of course, this theory (if it even deserves the name) depends on the idea that men's sex drive is significantly more urgent than women's, and I am not sure that that point has really been proven.


I'm sorry bud, but I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with most of what you said here. While I would agree that you correctly identified a number of stereotypes with respect to men, women and sex. I think that is all you did, post stereotypes. And I suppose some of the points deserve more in depth refutation.

First and foremost I disagree with your premise that men need sex at all. That's, well, that's just silly. Excepting the handful of men and women that are sex addicts like I've heard that David Ducovny was in Califonication, there aren't really any men that need sex. There are certainly men that like sex a lot and surely many male sluts (I'm using slut in a more technical way with respect to someone who doesn't really have any relationships but sleeps around a lot, no moral judgement, just a description of someone who sleeps around a lot.) I don't think men's bodies get all wonky in the absence of sex, and if ever they did start longing to ejaculate to the point it's interfering with their lives they can always go rub one out. As evidence of this I would point to the fact that men peak sexually in their late teens and early twenties. IF what you are describing was true it would manifest itself most obviously in the late teen early twenty set and you really don''t hear about kids like that being sex craved.

Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.

That all aside, you are totally missing the point that rape isn't about sex, it's about power. A man craving sex doesn't go around raping when he can't find a partner he becomes intimately familiar with his left and right hands. The men that go around raping women aren't doing it for sexual release they are doing it to satiate internal desires to dominate, humiliate and assault women. It's a totally different set of needs that are being fulfilled.

Finally, I don't agree that a man's sex drive is stronger than a woman's. I think women have a stronger desire for sex both when they are ovulating and ESPECIALLY when and if their baby-clock goes off. In both these cases, their body saying my eggs are good to go and their head telling them "I gotta have a baby!"

My feelings are that you are giving way too much credence to popular media and it's one-dimensional portrayal of the genders and the basis of their interactions. Likewise you are giving too little credit to the way that women and men actually work.

If you choose to persist in pushing these Ideals I'll have to insist you provide some sort of evidence to support your premise. Now, I'm not sure how you would go about doing so, but we can't make any progress in our discussions unless you can show that there is some basis in reality for the silliness you have posited. Savvy?
 
2012-12-14 12:15:58 PM  

JFarker131: So he thinks my body will shut down if a man is legitimately raping me.

Yes, because I have a kill switch in my vagina that is only activated with an unwelcome erect penis.


We knew it! Now the jig is up. So sad, you gals had a good run of things.

=p
 
2012-12-14 12:36:08 PM  

ciberido: NativeDaughter: I worked in the Sex Offense Registry in my former city. A lot of the guys that came in would, inevitably, tell me their story as I set up their profiles in the state online registry and got their files started for our office. A lot of them were young, and their victims were even younger. When asked how the whole situation even got to the point of illegal activity, they would inevitably reply "But he/she said they were cool with it. She consented." I'd point out he or she was underage (sometimes drastically). "But they said yes. They wanted to." There's a disconnect for a lot of people between saying 'yes' and being legally able to give consent. Others would say "She wanted it. You're a woman, tell me you don't dress a certain way to get attention." Sure, I dress a certain way to get attention. That doesn't mean I want to be or deserve to be sexually assaulted. There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant. "If she does this, this, and this... she must want it, and if she doesn't, too bad. She provoked me, and I just reacted." 


Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'll get flamed for this, but when you said "There's a sort of underlying idea of entitlement that is rampant," it reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a while now.

I think a lot of our problems come from the fact that men NEED sex (or think they do) in a way women usually don't. I'm not saying that women don't like sex, or want sex, or enjoy sex, but I don't think most women are DRIVEN to have sex the way men are by their own bodies. Men see sex as an essential necessity, like food or drink or air. In turn, men tend to see sex as something they're ENTITLED to because they need it, in almost the same way that you or I feel entitled to a drink of water when we get thirsty. If I was over at a friend's house and asked for a drink of water and she said no, I'd be fairly resentful that she refused me.

On some level, some men (maybe a lot of men) resent all the wo ...


I have noticed a few otherwise nice and sensible guys failing to understand that when a woman dresses a certain way it isn't a general invitation to all and sundry. Of course they haven't phrased it quite like that - just expressed annoyance / disbelief that a woman has any grounds to complain about "unwelcome" attention, because "you obviously dress like that for attention, I don't believe this 'I dress like this to make me feel good' crap" etc etc.

I have tried to explain to people that it really isn't that simple, but I'm not sure if I ever got through. I think possibly part of the problem with this line of thinking - and it shades into thinking about rape (especially where she was drinking / out late etc etc) is that people (both men AND women) make the mistake of imagining that what people are complaining about is just NORMAL behaviour. I think it is quite understandable that a guy who generally has nice manners and would never, ever rape or harass someone himself just has a problem imagining that what has happened is different from something he would do. He hears "he grabbed my ass" (say) and thinks of some time where he's done that in an appropriate situation, and thinks "what's wrong with that?". It's a failure of imagination.

I don't personally find an underlying air of "entitlement" in most men I know. I think perhaps what the OP was noticing was indicitive of a personality type or cognitive style found in offenders. Perhaps they thought that way before (lack of empathy? or the sense of entitlement that comes with narcissism?) or perhaps it is justification after the fact.

I think something that makes all discussions of serious abuse and sexual crimes difficult is simply the fact that it is hard for ANYONE normal to imagine how offenders really do think and rationalise (including outright lying). Discussions tend often to devolve into some kind of abstract sex-war thing, when really we are talking about a MINORITY of people who are dysfunctional. When nice guys (and girls too!) make what amounts to excuses for them, it confuses the issues immensely.

I don't think people really DO want this judge to be raped - it is simply the sort of thing people say "wait till it happens to you and then see what you think!".
 
2012-12-14 12:54:43 PM  

StashMonster: I don't think people really DO want this judge to be raped - it is simply the sort of thing people say "wait till it happens to you and then see what you think!".


That is a GREAT way of putting things. In fact, the best I've seen in a long, long time for the "someone who said something offensive should get a taste of their own medicine" meme that we see so often in threads about violence towards a person.

Also, I was thinking of something that also muddies the conversation. While I don't believe there is any merit to the idea that men desperately need sex more than women. There IS some merit to the age old adage that God gave men a dick and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time. When a man gets really horny, I mean really really excited his thought processes really do diverge from normal and start focusing on sex and only sex. I feel confident in saying this because while I am one of the least sex obsessed people that I know. I have never really had any desire to sleep around, or pursue random bar hookups. I have never been into finding someone to bed for a night and have always has a much stronger desire for intimacy with someone than having sex with someone. I have felt this sensation where via whatever stimulus I have become incredibly horny and felt all my other thought processes grind to a halt and my focus just became an overwhelming desire for sex. And I gotta tell you, once that sensation subsided it felt very strange to have experienced it. It really felt like a Dr Jekyl/ Mr. Hyde transformation. Only it was really Dave -> dave has just gotta get off -> back to normal, WTF was that. It was really like once the stimulus had been removed and my dick went back to normal... wtf was that?
 
2012-12-14 01:21:11 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.

That all aside, you are totally missing the point that rape isn't about sex, it's about power. A man craving sex doesn't go around raping when he can't find a partner he becomes intimately familiar with his left and right hands. The men that go around raping women aren't doing it for sexual release they are doing it to satiate internal desires to dominate, humiliate and assault women. It's a totally different set of needs that are being fulfilled.

 


Well, since you talk of people "missing the point," I'll go ahead and say you completely missed mine.

Rape IS (largely) about power, and most men COULD get sex without rape if they wanted to. Those points you think I "missed" are in fact precisely what I'm trying to say. The men in question (not all men) resent women because of power. They feel (however wrongly) that women have power over them and abuse that power by "selfishly" or "spitefully" not giving them what they "need."

Yes, of course, if it were just about gratifying sexual urges, then men would just hire prostitutes or masturbate, or what-have-you. It only takes half a moment's reflection to figure out that there's something else going on most of the time. Frankly, it's a tad insulting that you would imply I don't already know that. I suspect, however, that the same men who find themselves resenting women for this "power" also resent resorting to prostitutes. So in some twisted way, satiating their immediate sexual urges could intensify the underlying resentment. ("Look at how she's forced me to lower myself to hiring prostitutes.")

Let me try a different analogy, since you obviously didn't like my earlier one. Think of how husbands who batter their wives or girlfriends often blame their victims. "I hit her because she does such stupid things," "Look at what you made me do," etc. I'm suggesting that the same thing may be at play here.

Really, what you responded to (or thought you were responding to) was almost the complete opposite of what I was actually trying to say.
 
2012-12-14 01:30:10 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Also, I was thinking of something that also muddies the conversation. While I don't believe there is any merit to the idea that men desperately need sex more than women. There IS some merit to the age old adage that God gave men a dick and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time. When a man gets really horny, I mean really really excited his thought processes really do diverge from normal and start focusing on sex and only sex. I feel confident in saying this because while I am one of the least sex obsessed people that I know. I have never really had any desire to sleep around, or pursue random bar hookups.


If you're going to substantially disagree with a claim which another Farker made, and that claim is at least in principle a factual one that could be proven or disproven, it might be better to try to cite some sort of evidence rather than just assert over and over that the other person is wrong.
 
2012-12-14 01:43:47 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: you are using way too many pronouns and the intent of your sentence/statement is lost. I have no idea who's doing what and why in your post.


I'm tired, so I didn't want to put in much effort. Also I'm a terrible writist.

ciberido: Rape IS (largely) about power


There's absolutely no credibility to this idea. This meme about power started years ago in some second wave feminist book where the author claimed that men, in order to keep women submissive and afraid, would occasionally rape them as a sort of psychological terrorism to keep them under control.

This is stupid. Men are not conspiring together to keep women down via rape. The men who do get off on power are the subset (of all rapists) who are literal psychopaths...though the distinction between those subsets is somewhat vague. But the reasons men rape are varied. Most of them are indirectly tied to sex. You see, because rape is a terrible form of sex, men rape to have sex.

It's not that they want to humiliate a woman or something, it's because they want sex and they have nothing in their brain that tells them that you can't harm another person to get what you want.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.


I think we need to take this a bit more seriously than just "lower your standards". A lot of guys get frustrated, not strictly by the lack of sex, but by their lack of ability to get it on terms that other guys are able to get it. Especially when they feel those men aren't "worthy".

This is why betas get so frustrated when they see jerk alphas casually and easily sleeping with women. It's not that betas can't get sex, it's that they're annoyed that they have to jump through hoops while women will easily give it up for what the beta views as a jerk.

This is a complex issue, so I'm not going to break it all down, but it deserves a bit more than just, "Well, lower your standards or hire a hooker."

And I don't think its really an unreasonable frustration, although it's easily avoidable. A lot of women are frustrated that they aren't getting commitment from men on their terms the way they want (this is sort of the female equivalent of the male frustration). Simply saying, "lower your standards" isn't going to ease the frustration of these women.
 
2012-12-14 01:43:55 PM  

Kazan: most of the major major roadbuilding projects in US history have occured before the businesses were there that needed the roads. the Eisenhower Highway system is a grand example the only example of this.


The vast majority of the roads in the country were purpose built, whether for business or residential.

The highway system was built for an entirely different reason, and was routed based on cheap land and where it could physically be built. It's purpose was military transport, so location wasn't important, only that it went from point A to B to C. The only other comparable project in US history was the transcontinental railroad, which similarly created railroad towns at train stops and put other towns out of business that weren't on the route.
 
2012-12-14 01:57:34 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: JFarker131: So he thinks my body will shut down if a man is legitimately raping me.

Yes, because I have a kill switch in my vagina that is only activated with an unwelcome erect penis.

We knew it! Now the jig is up. So sad, you gals had a good run of things.

=p


Nice smiley, but I don't think that tongue would reach the switch. NOT LEGITIMATE.
 
2012-12-14 02:04:39 PM  

Lsherm: Kazan: most of the major major roadbuilding projects in US history have occured before the businesses were there that needed the roads. the Eisenhower Highway system is a grand example the only example of this.

The vast majority of the roads in the country were purpose built, whether for business or residential.

The highway system was built for an entirely different reason, and was routed based on cheap land and where it could physically be built. It's purpose was military transport, so location wasn't important, only that it went from point A to B to C. The only other comparable project in US history was the transcontinental railroad, which similarly created railroad towns at train stops and put other towns out of business that weren't on the route.


eisenhower sold it as a military system, but he understood the economic gains it would create.
 
2012-12-14 02:56:13 PM  

amquelbettamin: Huggermugger: amquelbettamin: Fear induced vaginitis and tightening up is real, but a rapist angry enough wont care and shove in there dry and cramped.

What a moron you are. You think that using a word like 'vaginitis' makes you sound scientific, but you don't take the time to confirm the actual definition of the word. I'm not exactly sure what the concept you were attempting to convey with your faux-pas, but 'vaginitis' means a (generally) chronic infection of the vagina that results in a foul-smelling discharge, frequently accompanied by itching.

I can't possibly imagine how fear could "induce" a bacterial infection, but please do enlighten us.

You're right, I misspelled vaginismus.

You need to chill out


Go rape someone; you'll feel better. It's your right, you deserve it.
 
2012-12-14 06:14:15 PM  

Kazan: Lsherm: Kazan: most of the major major roadbuilding projects in US history have occured before the businesses were there that needed the roads. the Eisenhower Highway system is a grand example the only example of this.

The vast majority of the roads in the country were purpose built, whether for business or residential.

The highway system was built for an entirely different reason, and was routed based on cheap land and where it could physically be built. It's purpose was military transport, so location wasn't important, only that it went from point A to B to C. The only other comparable project in US history was the transcontinental railroad, which similarly created railroad towns at train stops and put other towns out of business that weren't on the route.

eisenhower sold it as a military system, but he understood the economic gains it would create.


It was funded and built for the military with extra benefits, much like the space program.

Regardless, you're still wrong about roads being built without business consideration. All roads are built for a reason, and the vast majority of the roads in the US were built to get to a business or a residential area. The highway system was an outlier.
 
2012-12-14 06:27:27 PM  
Uchiha_Cycliste


Also, I was thinking of something that also muddies the conversation. While I don't believe there is any merit to the idea that men desperately need sex more than women. There IS some merit to the age old adage that God gave men a dick and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time. When a man gets really horny, I mean really really excited his thought processes really do diverge from normal and start focusing on sex and only sex. I feel confident in saying this because while I am one of the least sex obsessed people that I know. I have never really had any desire to sleep around, or pursue random bar hookups. I have never been into finding someone to bed for a night and have always has a much stronger desire for intimacy with someone than having sex with someone. I have felt this sensation where via whatever stimulus I have become incredibly horny and felt all my other thought processes grind to a halt and my focus just became an overwhelming desire for sex. And I gotta tell you, once that sensation subsided it felt very strange to have experienced it. It really felt like a Dr Jekyl/ Mr. Hyde transformation. Only it was really Dave -> dave has just gotta get off -> back to normal, WTF was that. It was really like once the stimulus had been removed and my dick went back to normal... wtf was that?

If a teenage boy is fooling around with his girlfriend on the couch, and her parents come home early...does he keep going?

Or does he greet them fully dressed, with a pillow on his lap?

Don't tell me that men can't control themselves when aroused. Of course they can.
 
2012-12-14 07:22:57 PM  

Lsherm: Regardless, you're still wrong about roads being built without business consideration.


i never said that though. i said they were built before the business was there.

tiny road with tiny businesses gets expanded, tiny businesses go away - not so tiny ones replace them. rinse repeat.
 
2012-12-14 07:42:11 PM  

IrishFarmer: Uchiha_Cycliste: you are using way too many pronouns and the intent of your sentence/statement is lost. I have no idea who's doing what and why in your post.

I'm tired, so I didn't want to put in much effort. Also I'm a terrible writist.

ciberido: Rape IS (largely) about power

There's absolutely no credibility to this idea. This meme about power started years ago in some second wave feminist book where the author claimed that men, in order to keep women submissive and afraid, would occasionally rape them as a sort of psychological terrorism to keep them under control.

This is stupid. Men are not conspiring together to keep women down via rape. The men who do get off on power are the subset (of all rapists) who are literal psychopaths...though the distinction between those subsets is somewhat vague. But the reasons men rape are varied. Most of them are indirectly tied to sex. You see, because rape is a terrible form of sex, men rape to have sex.

It's not that they want to humiliate a woman or something, it's because they want sex and they have nothing in their brain that tells them that you can't harm another person to get what you want.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.

I think we need to take this a bit more seriously than just "lower your standards". A lot of guys get frustrated, not strictly by the lack of sex, but by their lack of ability to get it on terms that other guys are able to get it. Especially when they feel those men aren't "worthy".

This is why betas get so frustrated when they see jerk alphas casually and easily sleeping with women. It's not that betas can't get sex, it's that they're annoyed that th ...


Not sure if you're trolling. Gonna take the bait.

1. There is a lot of credibility to "this idea." There are multiple psychological studies funded by universities, law enforcement, and the federal government studying rape psychology. Do your research before resorting to the "WHARGARBL FEMNAZIS PERSECUTING MEN!!1!" argument.

2. Sex is incidental to Rape. A rapist satisfies a sexual urge through rape, but the act itself is not about sexual interaction. The focus is, like any assault, about hurting, humiliating, and dominating your victim. Claiming that rape isn't about rage or anger is the same as claiming murder isn't rage or anger. Sociopaths kill and rape without emotion, because they don't have any. Other people who kill and rape? Lots of emotions. Most of them the not the sweet and fluffy kind.

3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.

I'm sick to DEATH of this stereotype that all women are bar-hopping bimbos who fawn over the "bad boy" and won't give the nerdy basement dweller with a heart-of-gold (no, really) the time of day because she's a stupid, vapid, shallow whore who gets wet the second some "alpha male" jerk calls her a dumb biatch. If you can't get laid, maybe... MAYBE the problem lies with YOU and YOUR approach.

But gosh, what am I thinking? Asking grown-ass adults to be introspective and self-critical. How silly.

/back to farking work.
//waking up to that school shooting in CT really farked my head up today
///-sniffle-
 
2012-12-14 08:26:12 PM  

Kazan: Lsherm: Regardless, you're still wrong about roads being built without business consideration.

i never said that though. i said they were built before the business was there.

tiny road with tiny businesses gets expanded, tiny businesses go away - not so tiny ones replace them. rinse repeat.


You said the majority of major road projects were built before business was there. The only road project where that's true is the interstate highway system.
 
2012-12-14 10:19:28 PM  
NativeDaughter

So much this. Welcome to my favorites list.
 
2012-12-14 10:33:32 PM  

MeanJean: NativeDaughter

So much this. Welcome to my favorites list.


:D Thankas.
 
2012-12-14 10:37:18 PM  

NativeDaughter: 3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.


So women fark men who can easily rape them? Is that what you're saying?
 
2012-12-14 10:58:48 PM  

Lsherm: NativeDaughter: 3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.

So women fark men who can easily rape them? Is that what you're saying?


Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying.

0/10, try again sparky.
 
2012-12-14 11:30:57 PM  

NativeDaughter: Lsherm: NativeDaughter: 3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.

So women fark men who can easily rape them? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying.

0/10, try again sparky.


Too late in the thread. But I got a bite!
 
2012-12-14 11:32:05 PM  

Lsherm: NativeDaughter: Lsherm: NativeDaughter: 3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.

So women fark men who can easily rape them? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying.

0/10, try again sparky.

Too late in the thread. But I got a bite!


Next time, just tell me you're hungry and I'll make you a sammich or something.
 
2012-12-15 12:21:27 AM  

NativeDaughter: Lsherm: NativeDaughter: Lsherm: NativeDaughter: 3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.

So women fark men who can easily rape them? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying.

0/10, try again sparky.

Too late in the thread. But I got a bite!

Next time, just tell me you're hungry and I'll make you a sammich or something.


Please. I can feed myself.

If you had showed up earlier I would have welcomed a debate about rape, sex, power and attraction. I know rape is about power, but I believe it's a myth that it isn't also about sex. The two are intertwined.

Wait for the next thread, I'm sure we'll meet again.
 
2012-12-15 12:36:20 AM  
Of course it's about sex, otherwise it would just be physical assault. But the sex is the tool used to degrade and humiliate. Any sexual pleasure or satisfaction obtained by the rapist is incidental. When I (and others) say "It's not about sex" we're not precluding The Act of Sexual Intercourse from the equation--that's impossible. We're saying that the act isn't about sex. Rapists don't wake up and say "I'm horny, let me go rape someone!"

Anyway... I look forward to discussing this further. I'm not opposed to widening my viewpoint or understanding of a complex issue like rape or the psychology of rape. As long as it stays relevant and at least semi-intelligent, I'm all for it. See ya around.
 
2012-12-15 12:48:47 AM  

NativeDaughter: But the sex is the tool used to degrade and humiliate. Any sexual pleasure or satisfaction obtained by the rapist is incidental.


That's where I think you're wrong. I think the sexual pleasure and satisfaction is because of the degradation and humiliation. I think rapists are wired for it. I think when they are "horny" - that's exactly what they are going for.

If sex was just the act for everyone, then the theory holds water. But that's not true. There isn't a guy alive who has had sex with more than one woman who thinks about only the woman he's having sex with at the moment. He's running through a rolodex in his head. Same for women. You can't remove the act from the interpretation of the situation. Rapists just have a farked up notion about it.

And Good Lord, I have to be clear: I'm not defending rape.
 
2012-12-15 01:12:04 AM  
So you're saying there's a link between sexual sadism and rape? I honestly haven't looked into it... I always viewed the sadist/masochist dynamic as a marginalized fetish group. I suppose you could say a rapist could possibly be a sexual sadist who never learned to express his (or her) fetish in a healthy, consensual way or doesn't know that there is, in fact, an entire subculture devoted to it... complete with rules and hierarchies and willing participants.

Still... I don't believe that the Vikings were raping the women of the countries they sacked SOLELY because they got off on it. It was used as a psychological weapon, even if they didn't call it that or recognize it in the same way, with the same terminology or context. The same shiat goes on in parts of the world today... Warlords encourage their soldiers to rape enemy women to terrify and cripple them emotionally. So do some rapists have sado-masochistic tendencies and fetishes? Sure, probably just as many as any other sampling of the population. But I don't think that such a fetish or obsession is necessary to commit rape.
 
2012-12-15 03:33:30 AM  

ciberido: Uchiha_Cycliste: Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.

That all aside, you are totally missing the point that rape isn't about sex, it's about power. A man craving sex doesn't go around raping when he can't find a partner he becomes intimately familiar with his left and right hands. The men that go around raping women aren't doing it for sexual release they are doing it to satiate internal desires to dominate, humiliate and assault women. It's a totally different set of needs that are being fulfilled.


Well, since you talk of people "missing the point," I'll go ahead and say you completely missed mine.

Rape IS (largely) about power, and most men COULD get sex without rape if they wanted to. Those points you think I "missed" are in fact precisely what I'm trying to say. The men in question (not all men) resent women because of power. They feel (however wrongly) that women have power over them and abuse that power by "selfishly" or "spitefully" not giving them what they "need."

I agree with you up to here. And will concede I may have missed your point, if my response was inappropriate.
Let's continue. (Also, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or a prick or anything. I'm writing the response as I read your post. It was a long mother farking day, so this is really my first opportunity to re-connect with you all.

Yes, of course, if it were just about gratifying sexual urges, then men would just hire prostitutes or masturbate, or what-have-you. It only takes half a moment's reflection to figure out that there's something else going on most of the time. Frankly, it's a tad insulting that you would imply I don't already know that. I suspect, however, that the same men who find themselves resenting women for this "power" also resent resorting to prostitutes. So in some twisted way, satiating their immediate sexual urges could intensify the underlying resentment. ("Look at how she's forced me to lower myself to hiring prostitutes.")
I would suspect that we have been / (were earlier) not on the same page with respect to communicating with each other. I think I took some of what you posted at its face value, when I shouldn't have. Looking back at our previous posts I think my response to you was fixated primarily on " I think a lot of our problems come from the fact that men NEED sex (or think they do) in a way women usually don't. I'" I shouldn't have focused on this and I should have looked at the big picture, you were describing a way that someone may come to be a rapist. I totally missed it until now


Let me try a different analogy, since you obviously didn't like my earlier one. Think of how husbands who batter their wives or girlfriends often blame their victims. "I hit her because she does such stupid things," "Look at what you made me do," etc. I'm suggesting that the same thing may be at play here.

Really, what you responded to (or thought you were responding to) was almost the complete opposite of what I was actually trying to say.

Yeah, I totally misunderstood that you were describing a method by which someone would come to become a rapist. I see it now and I agree with both of the mechanisms you have described

\sorry it took so long to get back, damn it's been a long day.

 
2012-12-15 03:34:10 AM  
sorry I screwed up the italics and indents and stuff =(
 
2012-12-15 03:47:26 AM  

ciberido: Uchiha_Cycliste: Also, I was thinking of something that also muddies the conversation. While I don't believe there is any merit to the idea that men desperately need sex more than women. There IS some merit to the age old adage that God gave men a dick and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time. When a man gets really horny, I mean really really excited his thought processes really do diverge from normal and start focusing on sex and only sex. I feel confident in saying this because while I am one of the least sex obsessed people that I know. I have never really had any desire to sleep around, or pursue random bar hookups.

If you're going to substantially disagree with a claim which another Farker made, and that claim is at least in principle a factual one that could be proven or disproven, it might be better to try to cite some sort of evidence rather than just assert over and over that the other person is wrong.


I think we don't see eye to eye on what "Need sex" and "sex drive" are. And I suppose that was my point of contention. I have no argument that men have a stronger sex drive. But I *don't* think a ramped up desire for sex is the same as a Need for sex. I'm imagining need in the sense of a debilitating obsession. For whatever reason sex must happen, you can't move on with your day, or your week or whatever until sex. I was treating a need for sex like an opiate junky treats the next needle. If you didn't mean Need for sex, then I think we are agreed here. With respect for need for sex, I can only really imagine women who's baby clocks are going off, sex addicts of both genders.

I think we should be return to our arguments and find common ground semantically so we can be sure we are discussing the same ideas.
 
2012-12-15 05:20:26 AM  
By the way, I only mentioned the pronoun thing thing because in that instace it made things really ambiguous. Substituting some of those pronouns with some proper nouns, would have made the post easier to digest. I mention it because I was hoping that you don't see me just as some grammar nazi asshole b/c of that comment.

IrishFarmer: Uchiha_Cycliste: Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.

I think we need to take this a bit more seriously than just "lower your standards". A lot of guys get frustrated, not strictly by the lack of sex, but by their lack of ability to get it on terms that other guys are able to get it. Especially when they feel those men aren't "worthy".


I see what you are getting at so far, there is an aspect of jealousy ( of men from men) that has not been mentioned yet in TFT, as far as I can remember. Jealousy is a powerful emotion and it should be obvious that such a feeling can be a very powerful base motivator for numerous other strong feelings and actions.


This is why betas get so frustrated when they see jerk alphas ca part if asually and easily sleeping with women. It's not that betas can't get sex, it's that they're annoyed that they have to jump through hoops while women will easily give it up for what the beta views as a jerk.

This is a complex issue, so I'm not going to break it all down, but it deserves a bit more than just, "Well, lower your standards or hire a hooker."

And I don't think its really an unreasonable frustration, although it's easily avoidable. A lot of women are frustrated that they aren't getting commitment from men on their terms the way they want (this is sort of the female equivalent of the male frustration). Simply saying, "lower your standards" isn't going to ease the frustration of these women.


So it sounds like you are saying that men's attitudes towards women and especially women with respect to wanting to have sex is shaped by more than just the ease with which one can satiate their desire to dip their wick. Further, there is enough going on that a man who wants a lot of sex and is able to make it happen in some way isn't necessarily satisfied with those actions.
 
2012-12-15 05:21:40 AM  

JFarker131: Uchiha_Cycliste: JFarker131: So he thinks my body will shut down if a man is legitimately raping me.

Yes, because I have a kill switch in my vagina that is only activated with an unwelcome erect penis.

We knew it! Now the jig is up. So sad, you gals had a good run of things.

=p

Nice smiley, but I don't think that tongue would reach the switch. NOT LEGITIMATE.


Well, you know that tongue wasn't drawn to scale.
 
2012-12-15 05:33:20 AM  

MeanJean: Uchiha_Cycliste


Also, I was thinking of something that also muddies the conversation. While I don't believe there is any merit to the idea that men desperately need sex more than women. There IS some merit to the age old adage that God gave men a dick and a brain and only enough blood to run one at a time. When a man gets really horny, I mean really really excited his thought processes really do diverge from normal and start focusing on sex and only sex. I feel confident in saying this because while I am one of the least sex obsessed people that I know. I have never really had any desire to sleep around, or pursue random bar hookups. I have never been into finding someone to bed for a night and have always has a much stronger desire for intimacy with someone than having sex with someone. I have felt this sensation where via whatever stimulus I have become incredibly horny and felt all my other thought processes grind to a halt and my focus just became an overwhelming desire for sex. And I gotta tell you, once that sensation subsided it felt very strange to have experienced it. It really felt like a Dr Jekyl/ Mr. Hyde transformation. Only it was really Dave -> dave has just gotta get off -> back to normal, WTF was that. It was really like once the stimulus had been removed and my dick went back to normal... wtf was that?

If a teenage boy is fooling around with his girlfriend on the couch, and her parents come home early...does he keep going?

Or does he greet them fully dressed, with a pillow on his lap?

Don't tell me that men can't control themselves when aroused. Of course they can.


You are absolutely right. I'll try to elaborate on why I brought up the whole thing at all,
This statement was made in the context of the discussion of whether men or women NEED sex more. First off I must admit that I may have misunderstood what was meant by NEED sex when I wrote this. It appears that "need" was actually not being used in its strictest way. Apparently, it was really being used in a way to reflect sex drive. But besides that recent realization I wrote this when I thought we were talking about really NEEDING sex, as in one absolutely has to have it no matter what. With that in mind I meant my comment about not having enough blood was used as evidence that sometimes men need sex. I was trying to explain that that phenomenon of the brain suddenly switching off because the dick is getting excited is a real phenomenon. I didn't mean it to mean that when it happens a man must absolutely get off or else. I wanted to put forth that the phenomenon has a basis in reality and because of that people may be more inclined to think that men "need" sex more than women. I should have elaborated that I still don't believe that men "need" sex more than women, but that this phenomenon could be one of the reasons that others would think that.

Does that make sense?
 
2012-12-15 05:42:15 AM  
I'm going to be responding to your post/response as best as i can as I read through it.
As of this point I haven't read it yet.

NativeDaughter: Uchiha_Cycliste: Further, I don't think it's that much harder (heh) for men to find sex than women, especially if they are desperate. All it requires is lowering ones standards. I have to agree it is a little easier for a women to have sex with their first or second choice of men, it's not difficult for a man to find a willing partner as long as he's exercises little discretion.

I think we need to take this a bit more seriously than just "lower your standards". A lot of guys get frustrated, not strictly by the lack of sex, but by their lack of ability to get it on terms that other guys are able to get it. Especially when they feel those men aren't "worthy".

This is why betas get so frustrated when they see jerk alphas casually and easily sleeping with women. It's not that betas can't get sex, it's that they're annoyed that th ...


Not sure if you're trolling. Gonna take the bait.

1. There is a lot of credibility to "this idea." There are multiple psychological studies funded by universities, law enforcement, and the federal government studying rape psychology. Do your research before resorting to the "WHARGARBL FEMNAZIS PERSECUTING MEN!!1!" argument.


honestly, I have no idea what I could have said that would have warrant this response to anything I've written. If I'm missing it somehow can you clue me into where I would have said something like that. It doesn't sound like me to say something like feminists are oppressing men. Not one bit


2. Sex is incidental to Rape. A rapist satisfies a sexual urge through rape, but the act itself is not about sexual interaction. The focus is, like any assault, about hurting, humiliating, and dominating your victim. Claiming that rape isn't about rage or anger is the same as claiming murder isn't rage or anger. Sociopaths kill and rape without emotion, because they don't have any. Other people who kill and rape? Lots of emotions. Most of them the not the sweet and fluffy kind.


I agree with this, in fact I think I said as much above, at least about rape not really being about sex


3. Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.

And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy. He's a jerk dressing himself as a "nice guy" because it's easier to explain why he's not a the top of the heap by convincing himself that "I'm just too nice to be like that." You're not too nice. You're just not willing to go toe-to-toe with the aforementioned "alpha male." Fark you for (once again) blaming women for your own shortcomings and sexual failings.

I'm sick to DEATH of this stereotype that all women are bar-hopping bimbos who fawn over the "bad boy" and won't give the nerdy basement dweller with a heart-of-gold (no, really) the time of day because she's a stupid, vapid, shallow whore who gets wet the second some "alpha male" jerk calls her a dumb biatch. If you can't get laid, maybe... MAYBE the problem lies with YOU and YOUR approach.

But gosh, what am I thinking? Asking grown-ass adults to be introspective and self-critical. How silly.

/back to farking work.
//waking up to that school shooting in CT really farked my head up today
///-sniffle-


I think that you weren't responding to me, and I was just involved in your response because it spurred the comment you were responding to. If I'm wrong somehow, please correct me and lets discuss the issues at hand and find common ground.

\Guess I should have read the whole Weeners =/
 
2012-12-15 09:02:55 AM  
I did a poor job with quoting properly... It was a response to IrishFarmer, I believe, and spawned from quotes of quotes of quotes. Sorry for the confusion :)
 
2012-12-15 10:50:31 AM  
ciberido: Rape IS (largely) about power

IrishFarmer: There's absolutely no credibility to this idea. This meme about power started years ago in some second wave feminist book where the author claimed that men, in order to keep women submissive and afraid, would occasionally rape them as a sort of psychological terrorism to keep them under control.


Then explain to me why 80-year-old women get raped.
 
2012-12-15 10:57:41 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I think we don't see eye to eye on what "Need sex" and "sex drive" are. And I suppose that was my point of contention. I have no argument that men have a stronger sex drive. But I *don't* think a ramped up desire for sex is the same as a Need for sex. I'm imagining need in the sense of a debilitating obsession. For whatever reason sex must happen, you can't move on with your day, or your week or whatever until sex. I was treating a need for sex like an opiate junky treats the next needle. If you didn't mean Need for sex, then I think we are agreed here.


I never said thay men needed sex. I said men THINK THAT they need sex.
 
2012-12-15 11:02:57 AM  

ciberido: Uchiha_Cycliste: I think we don't see eye to eye on what "Need sex" and "sex drive" are. And I suppose that was my point of contention. I have no argument that men have a stronger sex drive. But I *don't* think a ramped up desire for sex is the same as a Need for sex. I'm imagining need in the sense of a debilitating obsession. For whatever reason sex must happen, you can't move on with your day, or your week or whatever until sex. I was treating a need for sex like an opiate junky treats the next needle. If you didn't mean Need for sex, then I think we are agreed here.

I never said thay men needed sex. I said men THINK THAT they need sex.


SERIOUSLY? Oh god damnit. I am shame
 
2012-12-15 11:24:37 AM  

NativeDaughter: I did a poor job with quoting properly... It was a response to IrishFarmer, I believe, and spawned from quotes of quotes of quotes. Sorry for the confusion :)


no worries, I figured it out for the most part by the end of the post.
Is there anything left up for discussion? Or anything we left un-figured out?
 
2012-12-15 01:44:14 PM  

NativeDaughter: 1. There is a lot of credibility to "this idea." There are multiple psychological studies funded by universities, law enforcement, and the federal government studying rape psychology. Do your research before resorting to the "WHARGARBL FEMNAZIS PERSECUTING MEN!!1!" argument.


I don't think feminists are persecuting men.

However, it's like I misunderstood what was said. My perspective was also shaped by a recent incident near where I work. A guy was prosecuted for not stopping when a woman pleaded with him to stop.

The way the case was described, the guy was more oblivious, or rather it just didn't register with him, that he should stop when someone asks him to. I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly what happened, but this didn't seem like a case of power so much as, "Well I need to get mine, and whether or not she wants it doesn't matter".

There have also been studies done that say it is more about gratification. I'm not going to have a scholar measuring contest, because I think what it boils down to is that I misunderstood what was being said by, "It's all about power".

I'd grant, in this case, that I'm probably wrong.

NativeDaughter: Men need to get over this "Women fark dickish alpha male farktards all the time, the whores!" idiocy. So what if she does? Women do not OWE you sex, no matter how nice you are. You've just proved the idea of male entitlement. Believe it or not, women are allowed to fark whomever they please. This is not a problem with women. It's a problem with those "nice" beta males who get frustrated when women won't "give them" sex.


Here's where I'm not going to concede however. This sort of callous, disposable attitude towards these guys isn't helping anyone. We can hem and haw over human nature all day, but that won't change what it is. It certainly isn't an insult to women, though you're apparently taking it that way.

Women are allowed to fark whoever they want. But that's little consolation to the man who "plays by all the rules", and yet sees that the only ones having success are those who refuse to play by the rules.

Like I said, it's easily avoidable. All these men have to realize is that it's futile to try and relate with femininity the way they do. Women don't want those guys, and nothing is going to change that, it's up to the guys to change. However, telling them to just stop being frustrated and "entitled" literally solves nothing.

And if that's male entitlement, then what do we call all of the "where have the good men gone?" articles? Isn't that just females feeling entitled to the provisioning and commitment of men, regardless of whether or not they've actually done anything to earn it? Sauce, goose, gander, etc.

NativeDaughter: And, just for the record, any "beta male" who becomes angry at women for not spreading their legs for him over the "jerk alpha male" isn't a nice guy.


I hear this trope all of the time, and it never ceases to baffle me. First, I'd note that it's ridiculous to become angry at women over this, because you're either desirable or you're not, and all you can do is change yourself rather than blaming other people.

However, imagine this from the guy's perspective for a second. He's been told to be nice to women, and eventually someone will love and affirm him for the nice guy that he is. Years pass and he has minimal success with women, despite trying to be a nice guy. Then later he finds out that, in fact, women think he's actually the real jerk. Something's backwards here.

The problem isn't that these guys are really jerks. The thing is, guys will do something to get sex. Whether it's be nice, or not doesn't matter because they want sex. It's just that some guys learn "the wrong way". They somehow learned that if they do everything in their power to make themselves unattractive to women, that that will somehow make them attractive to women. The simple solution to all of this is just for them to unlearn their unattractive traits. All of this assumes that the attractive factors that he can't control are all in place (i.e. he's not ugly)

NativeDaughter: I'm sick to DEATH of this stereotype that all women are bar-hopping bimbos who fawn over the "bad boy" and won't give the nerdy basement dweller


This might surprise you, but I'm sick of that stereotype as well. Because it's stupid. Women may be more inclined to be attracted to an "alpha", but if you really want to sustain an awesome relationship then you need to be alpha and beta in balance. Too much alpha, and she's not getting the security she desires. Too much beta and she's not feeling the attraction.

I've been a nerdy basement dweller, and on occasion still am, but I'm in a relationship with a pretty damn attractive woman. I didn't get there by complaining about how women like jerks, I just stopped trying to be so damned nice and such a people pleaser. I took initiative, and told her I was attracted to her shortly after I met her, whereas before I might have just tried to be friendly and hope that she would take care of the rest.

No one is really to blame here. Women can't help who they're attracted to, it's just a simple matter of these frustrated nice guys understanding that they're losing the game because they're playing by the wrong rules. That's all.

However, shaming them for being "jerks in disguise" or saying they have an entitlement mentality is not just disingenuous, but it's not helping. It actually makes things worse, because these guys are doing what they thought they were supposed to and failing, and then being told they're jerks for failing.

Uchiha_Cycliste: I see what you are getting at so far, there is an aspect of jealousy ( of men from men) that has not been mentioned yet in TFT, as far as I can remember. Jealousy is a powerful emotion and it should be obvious that such a feeling can be a very powerful base motivator for numerous other strong feelings and actions.


Jealousy probably plays a role, and I think a lot of it is shame. They feel they don't measure up, despite that they're doing everything they thought would work.

Uchiha_Cycliste: So it sounds like you are saying that men's attitudes towards women and especially women with respect to wanting to have sex is shaped by more than just the ease with which one can satiate their desire to dip their wick. Further, there is enough going on that a man who wants a lot of sex and is able to make it happen in some way isn't necessarily satisfied with those actions.


Basically.
 
2012-12-15 08:22:25 PM  
I don't think feminists are persecuting men.

However, it's like I misunderstood what was said. My perspective was also shaped by a recent incident near where I work. A guy was prosecuted for not stopping when a woman pleaded with him to stop.


A single anecdotal incident is not what you should use as the starting point from which you build an opinion on a complex issue.

The way the case was described, the guy was more oblivious, or rather it just didn't register with him, that he should stop when someone asks him to. I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly what happened, but this didn't seem like a case of power so much as, "Well I need to get mine, and whether or not she wants it doesn't matter".

Obviously there are exceptions to every "rule." If this man was mentally incompetent or severely impaired, he might not have understood everything that was going on. Otherwise, when someone tells you to "stop," the only reason that I can see for ignoring the request is a deep disregard for the wishes of the victim.

Secondly, "Well I need to get mine, and whether or not she wants it doesn't matter," is a statement about power, nothing more. What this man wanted, in his mind, was more important than what the person he was physically assaulting wanted. He disregarded her "pleas" for him to stop in favor of satisfying his own desires. It's entitlement, which is based on the idea that the entitled is more important than whomever they're taking from. He wanted something (he was entitled to something) and took it. Anything outside of that equation wasn't considered (i.e. her wishes).

There have also been studies done that say it is more about gratification.

I've never seen or heard of them, and I concede that doesn't mean they don't exist. I worked with violent Sex Offenders in one of the most dangerous cities in America for over a year. Obviously, reaching a sexual climax during a sexual assault implies some degree of sexual gratification, but that is incidental. The point of a rape is to hurt the person being assaulted in the same way that punching someone in the face is about hurting the person being assaulted. Feeling cocksure (hurrharr) and puffed up for knocking your opponent out is incidental to the act of violence.

Here's where I'm not going to concede however. This sort of callous, disposable attitude towards these guys isn't helping anyone. We can hem and haw over human nature all day, but that won't change what it is. It certainly isn't an insult to women, though you're apparently taking it that way.

It's not my, nor any other woman's, responsibility to puff up anyone else's self-confidence. We're not your mommies and we don't want to be. It's not being callous or treating men as if they're disposable. It's treating them as what they are: People. That's it.

Women are allowed to fark whoever they want. But that's little consolation to the man who "plays by all the rules", and yet sees that the only ones having success are those who refuse to play by the rules.

Again, it's not my job to "console" men who feel slighted by women because they can't get laid. There is no magic formula of behaviors that equals a payout of sex (or a relationship). Doing everything by "the rules" doesn't mean that women owe you sex. You are STILL looking at this as if sex is something owed for good behavior. It's not. If you don't like the "rule breakers" getting all the play, start criticizing them, as it appears the actual gripe is with their behavior.

And if that's male entitlement, then what do we call all of the "where have the good men gone?" articles? Isn't that just females feeling entitled to the provisioning and commitment of men, regardless of whether or not they've actually done anything to earn it? Sauce, goose, gander, etc.

Both sexes are guilty of this. Men complain that there are no "good girls" to take home to mom, just bimbos with nothing between their ears but air. Women complain that there are no "good guys" around, just wife-beaters and wannabe-Cassanovas. It's bullshiat coming out of anyone's mouth. The "good" ones are around, and in greater quantities than the media or the naysayers will ever admit to. We chase the bimbos and the meatheads because they're easy targets. A quick fix in preference to something we have to work harder at but get a greater payoff from. Humans are lazy.

And the "provisioning" and "commitment" stuff is again, a problem that both sexes are guilty of creating. Men complain in one breath that women are constantly challenging their masculinity by becoming equal earners, that being an equal earner is fine until kids come along... Then someone needs to stay home and raise the rugrats... And in the next breath they complain that all women care about is how much money their partner earns and how much stuff he'll buy her, how much alimony he'll pay when they get divorced, etc. It's a frustrating juggling act for women: How much success can I have professionally (and therefore financially) before I start to be seen as a threat by my partner? Do I leave my job to care for our children?

And yes, in a serious relationship, women want commitment the same way that most men want commitment. No one wants to be cheated on. But not every relationship is serious. Demanding that your partner-in-marriage be committed and faithful is the point of entering into a monogamous relationship. If you don't want to be monogamous, don't get married. I would have had no problem with Tiger Woods boinking every trashy waitress on and between either seaboard if he hadn't been married.

You're still looking at all of this as "earned" rewards for good behavior. A woman isn't entitled to commitment or "stuff" from anyone, unless they promise it. If a man and woman marry, both have agreed (at least in most traditional relationships) to be committed. That's not an assumption of entitlement. That's entitlement. You are entitled to commitment and monogamy if that's the relationship dynamic you've agreed to enter into. Both partners in a committed relationship (specifically a marriage) agree to financially support one another. They've merged households. So yes, married men and women are entitled to financial support. There is no agreement, implicit or otherwise, that men who behave a certain way are entitled to sex.

Frankly, the whole comparison to men or women feeling "entitled" to monogamy or even financial/material provision to men feeling "entitled" to sex-on-demand is ridiculous. There is no excuse or justification for a mindset that "If I'm nice and say nice things and do nice things, I should get sex." The continuation of that train of thought into "She didn't give me sex even though I did everything right, why are women so cruel?" is even more ridiculous. She didn't have sex with you because she didn't want to and no amount of explaining or blame or "But-but-but other guys are mean and they get sex!" is going to make any less ridiculous.

I hear this trope all of the time, and it never ceases to baffle me. First, I'd note that it's ridiculous to become angry at women over this, because you're either desirable or you're not, and all you can do is change yourself rather than blaming other people.

However, imagine this from the guy's perspective for a second. He's been told to be nice to women, and eventually someone will love and affirm him for the nice guy that he is. Years pass and he has minimal success with women, despite trying to be a nice guy. Then later he finds out that, in fact, women think he's actually the real jerk. Something's backwards here.


Exactly my point. Men grow up with the idea that if they do A, B, and C, they are entitled to love (sex). They're not. That's not reality, whether you've been told it is for your entire life or not. Sure, it sucks when you realize you've been duped, but I still don't see how that's any one specific person's (or group's) fault or responsibility to fix. So the world wasn't as rosy as you were raised to believe. Harden the fark up and get over it. Adjust.

The problem isn't that these guys are really jerks.

Yes it is, and yes they are.

The thing is, guys will do something to get sex. Whether it's be nice, or not doesn't matter because they want sex. It's just that some guys learn "the wrong way". They somehow learned that if they do everything in their power to make themselves unattractive to women, that that will somehow make them attractive to women.

I'm trying to tell you, women aren't attracted to dickheads because they're dickheads. Women are attracted to dickheads because the dickheads usually have better game than the "nice guys," and because some women have this bizarre need to try to "fix" men. There are women who are just as mean and nasty as there are men who are just mean and nasty. People is people, as they say. I know plenty of women who have not ever been and never will be attracted to assholes (I happen to be one of them), so statements like "Women are giving it up to assholes all the time and ignore nice guys like me!!" They're not ignoring nice guys. They're ignoring you. Figure out why and then fix it.

The simple solution to all of this is just for them to unlearn their unattractive traits. All of this assumes that the attractive factors that he can't control are all in place (i.e. he's not ugly)

Yup.

However, shaming them for being "jerks in disguise" or saying they have an entitlement mentality is not just disingenuous, but it's not helping. It actually makes things worse, because these guys are doing what they thought they were supposed to and failing, and then being told they're jerks for failing.

Not. My. Problem. When you wake up and realize that the world isn't what you thought it was, giving reality the middle finger and screaming about being persecuted is actually the disingenuous, unhelpful reaction. Accept reality and adjust accordingly, or continue to fail. It's that simple.
 
2012-12-15 08:46:01 PM  
IrishFarmer:

There's absolutely no credibility to this idea. This meme about power started years ago in some second wave feminist book where the author claimed that men, in order to keep women submissive and afraid, would occasionally rape them as a sort of psychological terrorism to keep them under control.
You see, because rape is a terrible form of sex, men rape to have sex.
It's not that they want to humiliate a woman or something, it's because they want sex and they have nothing in their brain that tells them that you can't harm another person to get what you want.


It isn't about sex, you dumb farkwit.

Most individuals who rape have access to regular sex. Most men who rape have to masturbate themselves (or force the victim to give them oral sex) to even get an erection. Many rapes are conducted with objects instead of the penis.

This is well established in forensic literature and among psychologists. It isn't some PC myth to make men look bad.

If it isn't about power, then why do many attackers burn and bite the breasts of their victims, insult them, and urinate upon them?

You are a mouth-breathing idiot. Try opening a book before you post.
 
2012-12-15 08:50:17 PM  

MeanJean: IrishFarmer:

There's absolutely no credibility to this idea. This meme about power started years ago in some second wave feminist book where the author claimed that men, in order to keep women submissive and afraid, would occasionally rape them as a sort of psychological terrorism to keep them under control.
You see, because rape is a terrible form of sex, men rape to have sex.
It's not that they want to humiliate a woman or something, it's because they want sex and they have nothing in their brain that tells them that you can't harm another person to get what you want.


It isn't about sex, you dumb farkwit.

Most individuals who rape have access to regular sex. Most men who rape have to masturbate themselves (or force the victim to give them oral sex) to even get an erection. Many rapes are conducted with objects instead of the penis.

This is well established in forensic literature and among psychologists. It isn't some PC myth to make men look bad.

If it isn't about power, then why do many attackers burn and bite the breasts of their victims, insult them, and urinate upon them?

You are a mouth-breathing idiot. Try opening a book before you post.


No, no, no. See... he heard about this guy who raped this woman near his workplace this one time. And that guy raped her even though she was pleading for him to stop because he just really wanted to get laid and didn't quite understand what her pleas for him to stop really meant. So it's not about being violent. It's about getting your rocks off. In all cases of rape. Ever. In the history of always.

/the derp is strong with this one
 
2012-12-15 09:22:03 PM  

NativeDaughter: Obviously there are exceptions to every "rule." If this man was mentally incompetent or severely impaired, he might not have understood everything that was going on. Otherwise, when someone tells you to "stop," the only reason that I can see for ignoring the request is a deep disregard for the wishes of the victim.


Yup, and I don't know if I've really ever shared this on Fark, but this is essentially how I was raped in college.
I kept saying no and it didn't stop. The worst part was that for the longest time I blamed myself. That I should have been more assertive, that I should have been more insistent, that I should have stood up and made sure it didn't happen. It took years to realize that repeatedly saying no, stop, not like that, should have been the end of it. =(
 
2012-12-15 09:40:04 PM  

NativeDaughter: Both sexes are guilty of this. Men complain that there are no "good girls" to take home to mom, just bimbos with nothing between their ears but air. Women complain that there are no "good guys" around, just wife-beaters and wannabe-Cassanovas. It's bullshiat coming out of anyone's mouth. The "good" ones are around, and in greater quantities than the media or the naysayers will ever admit to. We chase the bimbos and the meatheads because they're easy targets. A quick fix in preference to something we have to work harder at but get a greater payoff from. Humans are lazy.

And the "provisioning" and "commitment" stuff is again, a problem that both sexes are guilty of creating. Men complain in one breath that women are constantly challenging their masculinity by becoming equal earners, that being an equal earner is fine until kids come along... Then someone needs to stay home and raise the rugrats... And in the next breath they complain that all women care about is how much money their partner earns and how much stuff he'll buy her, how much alimony he'll pay when they get divorced, etc. It's a frustrating juggling act for women: How much success can I have professionally (and therefore financially) before I start to be seen as a threat by my partner? Do I leave my job to care for our children?


A couple of thoughts First off, it may just be because of where I went to school and were I work (Cal/Silicon Valley) but I have never really gotten this impression from the gals and guys around me, I mean there are a handful of "bad-boy pricks" and nasty, mean "drama-llama" girls. But the vast majority that I have known are all cool.

Secondly, the more stories in this thread that I read the more and more grateful I am for what my girlfriend and I have, I would bet part of it all is just how well we know and understand each other. Partially how well we communicate. And also that we both get to be totally ourselves when talking and when we get to see each other. Never before have I been able to be 100% my natural self 100% of the time. It's so awesome. I love her so, so much. Incidentally, telling each other "I love you" is something we had been doing for at least a couple years before we started dating, ♥
 
2012-12-15 09:50:13 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: NativeDaughter: Obviously there are exceptions to every "rule." If this man was mentally incompetent or severely impaired, he might not have understood everything that was going on. Otherwise, when someone tells you to "stop," the only reason that I can see for ignoring the request is a deep disregard for the wishes of the victim.

Yup, and I don't know if I've really ever shared this on Fark, but this is essentially how I was raped in college.
I kept saying no and it didn't stop. The worst part was that for the longest time I blamed myself. That I should have been more assertive, that I should have been more insistent, that I should have stood up and made sure it didn't happen. It took years to realize that repeatedly saying no, stop, not like that, should have been the end of it. =(


Which is why, besides being factually wrong, the claim that rape is about anything other than violence, aggression, and power is morally abhorrent. What this judge did was reinforce the (false) belief that women, men, and children who are raped could have done something more to "fight back" when being attacked, whether he said so explicitly or not. There is no "rape severity score" that a victim must meet in order to qualify as a real victim. Rape is rape. There is no such thing as "legitimate rape," "technical rape" or any other bullshiat qualifier that any moron chooses to preface "rape" with.

Whether your attacker beat the shiat out of you or simply held you down and committed the act; whether you actively resisted, froze up, or were too drugged or intoxicated to realize what was happening, your body--the very last thing you have when all else is stripped away--was forcibly violated without consent. Save murder (and some would debate this), there is no other act more damaging, harmful, or disrespectful of the sanctity of "self" than rape.

There is no wiggle room, no grey area. It should not, in any scenario, be acceptable or not deserving of contempt and prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

I'm very sorry for what happened to you. Truly.
 
2012-12-16 12:53:02 AM  
thanks.

In hindsight I don't know what the hell was wrong with me. I surely know it will never happen again, and in fact there was a time where it almost did, though in a completely different scenario involving a new neighbor that had just moved in behind me, and I was able to be much more assertive; even though she was already molesting me before I was able to say in no uncertain terms no, go away.

But what happened in college was really traumatic. Also, any guy that I saw that looked even a little like the guy made me super anxious and upset. And because of circumstances, I couldn't really share with anyone I was close to without them, er, without sharing too much of things I couldn't share. It was a really horrifying experience and somehow I twisted it to be my fault. =/
It's really an awful thing to have happen and I can't imagine how much worse it would be it there were fears of pregnancy or disease (which I suppose there was briefly).
 
2012-12-16 01:33:05 AM  

NativeDaughter: A single anecdotal incident is not what you should use as the starting point from which you build an opinion on a complex issue.


Probably not, but then again I don't really want to spend a lot of time getting into these guy's heads.

NativeDaughter: It's not my, nor any other woman's, responsibility to puff up anyone else's self-confidence. We're not your mommies and we don't want to be. It's not being callous or treating men as if they're disposable. It's treating them as what they are: People. That's it.


When, in any of my words, did I ever pin any responsibility on you or any other woman?

This seriously bugs me. It always gets brought up in conversations like these. Someone gets indignant and says, "I am NOT here to [action]" That's totally 21st century of you, and it's awesome that you are really expressing your empowerment. The problem is you're completely missing the point.

This, at no time, has anything to do with what women owe men, or what they should do, or anything like that.

NativeDaughter: Again, it's not my job to "console" men who feel slighted by women because they can't get laid. There is no magic formula of behaviors that equals a payout of sex (or a relationship). Doing everything by "the rules" doesn't mean that women owe you sex. You are STILL looking at this as if sex is something owed for good behavior. It's not. If you don't like the "rule breakers" getting all the play, start criticizing them, as it appears the actual gripe is with their behavior.


*sigh* You must be purposefully misreading what I'm saying. Unless women literally act randomly, chaotically, and without any rational thought, then there will be some patterns noticeable in what looks, behaviors, etc will result in more sexual than others. It's a clinical, unromantic way of looking at this, but it's true.

Let's say there's two men. One dresses nicely, smells nice, and generally has a friendly demeanor. The other man smells bad, dresses like an idiot, and is unfriendly. If you had to place bets on which one would have more success on a speed dating seminar, you'd put your money on the first guy. It doesn't mean that he's "owed" anything, it's just that by virtue of being a more pleasant person he'll have more relationship success.

Sex is something that happens spontaneously as attraction cues are triggered between two people (most of the time). That's all I'm saying. The problem is a lot of men are convinced they should do X,Y, or Z in order to be attractive, despite that X, Y, or Z actually inhibit attraction. They don't realize what they're doing is inhibiting attraction, in fact they think it should be triggering attraction, so they're confused and frustrated. This does not make it anyone's job to fix the situation for them, nor does it mean women should be attracted to them anyway just because they deserve it.

Maybe it upsets you that guys would do something specifically just to make themselves more attractive (ultimately for sex). But almost all guys do this to some extent. Guys buy fast souped up cars, wear nice clothes, work jobs they hate, and they don't do it for the accolades. I don't really know what else to say about this besides that this will never change, so...get over it.

Secondly, women do the same thing so it would be hypocritical for anyone to point fingers at anyone else on this.

NativeDaughter: Both sexes are guilty of this. Men complain that there are no "good girls" to take home to mom, just bimbos with nothing between their ears but air. Women complain that there are no "good guys" around, just wife-beaters and wannabe-Cassanovas. It's bullshiat coming out of anyone's mouth.


The #1 apparent complaint is that guys won't commit. That is, guys just want to have sex without any responsibility towards the relationship, or they'll opt for "casual" commitment like cohabitating instead of marriage and so on. Women generally don't like this, from what I understand.

NativeDaughter: And the "provisioning" and "commitment" stuff is again, a problem that both sexes are guilty of creating. Men complain in one breath that women are constantly challenging their masculinity by becoming equal earners, that being an equal earner is fine until kids come along... Then someone needs to stay home and raise the rugrats... And in the next breath they complain that all women care about is how much money their partner earns and how much stuff he'll buy her, how much alimony he'll pay when they get divorced, etc. It's a frustrating juggling act for women: How much success can I have professionally (and therefore financially) before I start to be seen as a threat by my partner? Do I leave my job to care for our children?


Where are these guys who are threatened by a woman who works? I don't know a single man who would prefer a woman who doesn't work. It puts a larger burden on him, especially because two working partners means both partners are freed up to pursue fulfillment instead of just financial survival.

I'd be convinced that these guys exist, but I just haven't run into a single one IRL or on the internet.

I would actually argue that the inverse is true. Guys are insecure about earning less because more successful women are inclined to be weary of those men (sometimes), and no matter how she feels about it our culture still looks down on it in general.

Men don't make a lot of money because they enjoy being miserable working long hours, making long commutes and being stressed out. They make money because, for some reason, the male gender role never transitioned like the female role did. It may be a matter of insecurity, but if so then we need to have a paradigm shift. I think guys would be happier having that flexibility. Who wouldn't?

NativeDaughter: Frankly, the whole comparison to men or women feeling "entitled" to monogamy or even financial/material provision to men feeling "entitled" to sex-on-demand is ridiculous. There is no excuse or justification for a mindset that "If I'm nice and say nice things and do nice things, I should get sex." The continuation of that train of thought into "She didn't give me sex even though I did everything right, why are women so cruel?"


Men and women are different, but still similar. The emphasis that most men put on the sexual and physical aspects of a relationship are very similar to the emphasis most women will put on the commitment and relational aspects of her relationship. "She didn't give me sex even though I did everything right" sounds suspiciously like "he didn't commit to me even though I loved him". "Where have all the good (marriage minded) men gone?" is similar to, "Where are the women who like nice men?" I'm not saying that makes either side right, they're both trying to blame someone else for their own problems, but I notice you don't feel the need to say, "Men don't OWE it to women to build their confidence and make them feel better. They don't owe them commitment, just because they exist."

NativeDaughter: A woman isn't entitled to commitment or "stuff" from anyone, unless they promise it.


So is a husband owed reasonably regular sex from his wife, as a promise of marriage?

I only ask, because I want to clarify that at this point it seems like you have a glaring double standard.

NativeDaughter: And yes, in a serious relationship, women want commitment the same way that most men want commitment. No one wants to be cheated on.


I'm not talking about fidelity, I'm talking about commitment. Commitment being dating a girl instead of having sex with her and moving on. Marrying instead of just cohabitating. And so on.

NativeDaughter: Exactly my point. Men grow up with the idea that if they do A, B, and C, they are entitled to love (sex). They're not. That's not reality, whether you've been told it is for your entire life or not. Sure, it sucks when you realize you've been duped, but I still don't see how that's any one specific person's (or group's) fault or responsibility to fix. So the world wasn't as rosy as you were raised to believe. Harden the fark up and get over it. Adjust.


I'm not saying these guys are martyrs or victims. I'm just baffled as to why we feel the need to tell these guys to man up, and yet no one complains about the female equivalent of wondering why guys aren't committing to them.

Sure, ideally these guys would "just get it". And yet they're not getting it. I suppose I could just say to women who aren't finding commitment, "It's not my responsibility to help you." But what's the point of being that detached about it? Why not figure out where the disconnect is and help people live better, more fulfilled lives?

I'm certainly not going to call these women disingenuous, or jerks for feeling like they're owed commitment from single, marriageable men.

NativeDaughter: I'm trying to tell you, women aren't attracted to dickheads because they're dickheads. Women are attracted to dickheads because the dickheads usually have better game than the "nice guys," and because some women have this bizarre need to try to "fix" men.


I think the whole "fixing" problem is that guys are unbalanced in relationships. They're either too much of a "jerk", and the woman wants to make them more nice, or they're too nice and the women aren't attracted to them on a physical level.

NativeDaughter: Not. My. Problem. When you wake up and realize that the world isn't what you thought it was, giving reality the middle finger and screaming about being persecuted is actually the disingenuous, unhelpful reaction. Accept reality and adjust accordingly, or continue to fail. It's that simple.


Okay, cool. I guess we're just not going to agree on it.

I mean, a guy who starts to hate women because he can't figure out "the game" is being a selfish jerk. I can agree with that.

I just don't understand what all of the callousness is about if a guy thinks that because he's a generally nice guy, some women will like him. We'll have to agree to disagree on that point, because i don't think we're going to say anything new after this point.
 
2012-12-16 01:34:28 AM  

MeanJean: Most individuals who rape have access to regular sex. Most men who rape have to masturbate themselves (or force the victim to give them oral sex) to even get an erection. Many rapes are conducted with objects instead of the penis.

This is well established in forensic literature and among psychologists. It isn't some PC myth to make men look bad.

If it isn't about power, then why do many attackers burn and bite the breasts of their victims, insult them, and urinate upon them?

You are a mouth-breathing idiot. Try opening a book before you post.


See my last post where I explained that I probably misunderstood what the point was, and then admitted that I was wrong.
 
2012-12-16 01:48:11 AM  
I just don't understand what all of the callousness is about if a guy thinks that because he's a generally nice guy, some women will like him. We'll have to agree to disagree on that point, because i don't think we're going to say anything new after this point.

Because that's not where this conversation started. It started with, and I quote: This is why betas get so frustrated when they see jerk alphas casually and easily sleeping with women. It's not that betas can't get sex, it's that they're annoyed that they have to jump through hoops while women will easily give it up for what the beta views as a jerk.

Excuse me if my dismissal of this as anything other than an egotistical, self-centered sense of false entitlement and misplaced anger seems callous, but I have a hard time believing it deserves anything more.

Care to try again?
 
2012-12-16 01:56:19 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: NativeDaughter: Obviously there are exceptions to every "rule." If this man was mentally incompetent or severely impaired, he might not have understood everything that was going on. Otherwise, when someone tells you to "stop," the only reason that I can see for ignoring the request is a deep disregard for the wishes of the victim.

Yup, and I don't know if I've really ever shared this on Fark, but this is essentially how I was raped in college.
I kept saying no and it didn't stop. The worst part was that for the longest time I blamed myself. That I should have been more assertive, that I should have been more insistent, that I should have stood up and made sure it didn't happen. It took years to realize that repeatedly saying no, stop, not like that, should have been the end of it. =(


Absolutely.
No one says of someone beat up by a mugger, "Well, seems to me he could have made a break for it, or struggled, so maybe he was into it. Some people do pay good money to be hurt, you know." (Or if anyone does say that, they're idiots.) Hearing a refusal is all it should take to stop (and if there's any threat made of violence or reprisal - whether overt or fairly clearly implied - it doesn't even require a "no", to be rape, since the person may obviously be too scared to refuse).

" 'No' means no" isn't too hard a rule for anyone with a reasonably functional brain to keep memorized. For something so intimate, any refusal should stop someone short.
 
2012-12-16 02:21:32 AM  
Yeah, and a Dozen no's should definitely make an obvious statement =(
 
2012-12-16 02:29:44 AM  
Thank God none of my family Farks.
 
2012-12-16 02:37:01 AM  
related... I just realized that the judge had been trying to force this poor girl to go through the emotional aftermath I put myself through. That's simply unconscionable, putting the blame on yourself messes you up for a long time.
 
2012-12-16 08:52:25 PM  

NativeDaughter: Oh, definitely. In the Sex Offense Registry office, I noticed that almost every man or woman (yes, there are female sex offenders) who came in blamed the victim for their predicament. You almost never heard, "You know, I made a really bad decision and that's why I'm here. I shouldn't have done what I did." These are the people who are out of prison, who the police have to then monitor for however long their Tier group requires (my former state used a tier system, I'm not sure how other states do it). No one ever sat down with them and went through what happened, how their decisions negatively impacted their own lives AND the life or lives of the person or people they assaulted.


They were never required to go to any kind of education/therapy where someone at least tried to get them to see that? Ugh... not much achieved beyond keeping them out of circulation from outside society for a while, then...


NativeDaughter: I also believe that men in particular feel like they're being unfairly lumped in with these "bad guys" and that any criticism or highlighting of the FACT that men seriously assault women far more often than the other way 'round is unfair or another attempt by the man-hating Fem Nazis to convince the world that half of the human race are monsters waiting to strike. We know it's not all of you... not even the vast majority of you. But can you really blame women for being hyper-defensive when sexual assault or sexism is brought into play? How often are women, as an entire gender, declared to be "not as smart as" men? How often is the "new girl" at the office the subject of a "hotness factor" discussion? Why does it seem to not matter how butt fugly a guy is in relation to his professional success or reputation in the office, but the first thing that is usually discussed about a female employee is how hot they are? Is that all we are to you? It grates, and over time, some women learn to tune it out or laugh it off, or they masquerade as "one of the guys" who isn't offended by sexist jokes (how often do you hear a woman say "Pfft, I hate women..."?) Men produce sitcoms where the woman is beautiful and funny and somehow married to a doofus, and then MEN complain that they're portrayed unfairly on television and that all TV husbands are fat slobs lucky to have whatever Victoria Secret supermodel they cast as wifey... Somehow that's still the fault of Women. All of us. Somehow. It's like men feel as though they're losing something... An edge? Control? the upperhand? I don't know, I'm a chick. I guess I wouldn't like it if I felt like I was losing something either, but in the long run, I have to believe it's for the best.


I sympathize with what you're saying, but I'd caution that it's more accurate to say something like "a significant number of men do __" or "It's like many men feel as though...", etc., and making careful distinctions like that can help keep better dialogue going, because guys often don't want to get lumped all together as a homogeneous set, either. I realize you almost surely don't mean all men (especially given the distinction you did make at the beginning), but it could be taken the wrong way.


As for causes, like with many crimes, I think a critical distinction is between influences and excuses. Some factors can affect rates overall, while being neither valid excuses for any remotely sane individual, nor being valid excuses for us as a society to treat it as some inevitable statistic. On societal level, there are problems that we can do far more to address, for example by doing a much better job of inculcating ideas like the need ot feel basic empathy for others (regardless of gender) and respect for them as individual people -- crucial ideas that if planted firmly in the first place, should take precedence before other factors.
 
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