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(Engadget)   Google: "We don't want to make any applications for the operating system that will be on the lion's share of new desktops sold in the next year"   (engadget.com) divider line 95
    More: Stupid, Google, operating systems, desktops, mobile apps, Windows Phones, Windows, Google Docs  
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6696 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Dec 2012 at 3:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 06:01:54 PM  

BullBearMS: ProfessorOhki: So I'm asking you, the guy saying that we need to stop "pretending tablets and phones aren't computers" to define exactly what makes a computer so we can all judge exactly how much you want to skew numbers.

How about any device that is commonly used to run a word processor, spreadsheet, and/or database? Those are very traditional computer based tasks.


Fair enough, but I do think most people would agree with me that getting punched in the gut is much more enjoyable than attempting to edit a spreadsheet on a touch screen.
 
2012-12-13 06:09:02 PM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: ProfessorOhki: So I'm asking you, the guy saying that we need to stop "pretending tablets and phones aren't computers" to define exactly what makes a computer so we can all judge exactly how much you want to skew numbers.

How about any device that is commonly used to run a word processor, spreadsheet, and/or database? Those are very traditional computer based tasks.

Fair enough, but I do think most people would agree with me that getting punched in the gut is much more enjoyable than attempting to edit a spreadsheet on a touch screen.


In Microsoft Office, yes. What with it's complete lack of a touch based interface.
 
2012-12-13 06:14:01 PM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: ProfessorOhki: So I'm asking you, the guy saying that we need to stop "pretending tablets and phones aren't computers" to define exactly what makes a computer so we can all judge exactly how much you want to skew numbers.

How about any device that is commonly used to run a word processor, spreadsheet, and/or database? Those are very traditional computer based tasks.

Fair enough, but I do think most people would agree with me that getting punched in the gut is much more enjoyable than attempting to edit a spreadsheet on a touch screen.


I'm actually doing just that right now on an iPad using Google Drive. It isn't horrible, as long as you don't have to do anything too complicated (like anything more complex than inputting data). Then it becomes a slow, infuriating death.
 
2012-12-13 06:14:59 PM  

zarberg: Were I to be in the market for a new computer and Windows 8 was the only option, the first thing I'd do is wipe the drive and put Win 7 ultimate on it with my TechNet subscription.


There's no need for that. Windows 8 is perfectly fine as soon as you open the old timey desktop, and doing that is just a minor after starting your computer.
 
2012-12-13 06:21:14 PM  
Chrome is already a Windows 8 application. It's switchable between desktop and metro in the menu.
 
2012-12-13 06:35:04 PM  
Is there a reason they should make apps especially for Windows 8? Because maybe it's just me, but I'd think the platform-agnostic websites they already have available will work fine in Win8, and I don't see either WinRT or WP8 being a big enough deal to even bother.
 
2012-12-13 06:36:21 PM  

zarberg: Were I to be in the market for a new computer and Windows 8 was the only option, the first thing I'd do is wipe the drive and put Win 7 ultimate on it with my TechNet subscription.


Or, you can just install this.

/as usual, third-party developers come to the rescue on MS's farkups.
 
2012-12-13 06:38:14 PM  

narkor: So much Neckbeard rage.

These were the same people screaming about how Windows 7 would be a huge failure.


Someone was screaming about how Windows 7 would be a huge failure? Because the general reaction I remember was, "Oh thank all that is holy, it's better than Vista."
 
2012-12-13 06:43:22 PM  
Windows 8 as a packaged was a disgrace. But if you remove all of the Metro apps and treat Metro like a retarded Start button, Windows 8 is usable. Hot corners are easy to get used to.
 
2012-12-13 06:43:59 PM  
In other news, Google Apps product management director Clay Bavor isn't old enough to shave.

www.v3.co.uk
 
2012-12-13 06:46:38 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Google's not really known for a large number of stand-alone desktop apps. I wouldn't expect them to have targeted anything at Windows 8.

Anyone with the desktop version (non-RT or whatever) will be able to run 'Windows version'.
Anyone with Windows-RT can run an HTML5 web-based version.

Kind of a non-story.


Depends. Certain things like Google+ hangout (the only reason I use Google+) can't run on the web-version. On Windows (x86), you can install a program that allows the browser to access the webcam and mic. On RT, you're f*cked.

Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.
 
2012-12-13 06:53:53 PM  

moel: downstairs: The tiled interface I have zero use for, but I guess you can turn that off.

Nope...everytime you boot the machine its there....no turning TIFKAM off, otherwise how would MS batter you into submission with it....

...its like the tech equivalent of your 4 year old child tugging at your trousers and constantly asking for a furby this christmas..you know its going to be a farking nightmare but you will probably eventually give in


Or get Classic Shell. I traded up to W8 from XP on a fairly modern mobo/processor machine and the improvement in speed was huge. With Classic Shell (or Start 8 which does much the same) I have a start button and never have to see Metro unless I want to.
Not had any issues with older software not running apart from my video card twin monitor function not working with W8.

Still very glad I upgraded, $40 was a great deal. Still think Metro is stupid beyond belief, but I don't have to use it.
 
2012-12-13 06:56:31 PM  
I don't buy or upgrade my OS until it has been out for AT LEAST a year. There never is any point to and I do lots of CAD work and play tons of PC games. Have fun with your patches and plethora of problems!
 
2012-12-13 07:02:18 PM  

russlar: metallion: Why should they? Pretty much anything you need from google on a pc can be accessed through Chrome or IE...

This. The only reason to make a "Windows 8 app" is for the ARM-based WinRT tablets.


because the tablets dont have a "web browser" ??
I still dont get this.

The phone, I understand, a standalone app is infinitely better than a web page for mail ...
but still.

In theory, they could do one of those media pages for gmail and jsut be done with it
 
2012-12-13 07:18:42 PM  

imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.


Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.
 
2012-12-13 07:41:31 PM  

narkor: These were the same people screaming about how Windows 7 would be a huge failure.


I don't recall anyone saying Windows 7 was going to be a disaster. It was the first version since XP that was stable and not a pain to use. Every company I know of is in process of moving to it.

/Windows 8 on the other hand - no corporation is going to touch it
 
2012-12-13 07:51:09 PM  

HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.


For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.
 
2012-12-13 08:48:18 PM  

imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.


So use the built-in OS "mail" app or Outlook. Why does the mail app need to be Gmail specific?
 
2012-12-13 09:04:02 PM  

BullBearMS: Reality: When you stop pretending touch devices aren't computers, all versions of Windows combined only have a 20% marketshare.

[dl.dropbox.com image 850x520]


If I'm to believe that graph, and Apple went from 5% to 21% from '04 to '05. This is a pretty remarkable feat considering that the iPhone didn't come out until 2007. There's no way MacOS share grew that much in one year either. Are they counting iPods? Calling an iPod a computer is a bit of a stretch. I'd also be curious what "other" was that jumped from 0% to 29% in one year.

It's not like these numbers are hard to look up:
According to Apple, there have been 400 million total iOS devices activated since the OS's release in 2007, and fewer than 100 million copies of OSX sold. Call it 500 million devices since 2007.
According to Microsoft, it has sold 700 million copies of Win7 since its release in 2009, 40 million copies of Win8 in about a month, and about 70 million Xboxes. Ignore phones and call it 800 million devices since 2009.
According to Google, 500 million Android devices have been activated since 2008.

You can argue all day about the future, but I don't see how you can interpret these numbers and come to the conclusion that Microsoft is in third place this generation.
 
2012-12-13 09:14:12 PM  

oren0: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.

So use the built-in OS "mail" app or Outlook. Why does the mail app need to be Gmail specific?


Cause the gmail app is almost always better than the native client. There are many features that are gmail specific -- conversations, labels, integration with google contacts and google+ profiles, integration with gchat, complex search and manipulating filters -- all of which aren't supported in other clients because they can only communicate via IMAP.

I guess it depends on how much of gmail's features you use. I use a lot and find that email clients really suck if you wanna do anything complex.
 
2012-12-13 09:17:24 PM  

gingerjet: I don't recall anyone saying Windows 7 was going to be a disaster.


No one did. That's what you call a 'strawman' argument.

I find all the dildoes with their "U no like Windows 8 means u old" attitude farking obnoxious. MS has lost the plot, shiat is shiat, I gave it a fair chance, and I'm sticking with W7 for the company for the foreseeable future. Just placed an order for 5 more W7 notebooks actually.

Still mad at MS for gutting Live Mesh/Essentials, not to mention the 10 year neglect of ink.
 
2012-12-13 09:21:13 PM  
Man, I saw "WP" and got all nostalgic for Word Perfect, the most intuitive word processor EVAR. God, MSWord is the shiats.
 
2012-12-13 09:33:51 PM  

oren0: I'd also be curious what "other" was that jumped from 0% to 29% in one year.


I would guess "Other" includes BlackBerry and Palm. But, yeah, that data does look very screwy.
 
2012-12-13 09:37:55 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: In other news, Google Apps product management director Clay Bavor isn't old enough to shave.


I didn't know Michael Ian Black wore glasses as a teenager.
 
2012-12-13 10:02:54 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Still mad at MS for gutting Live Mesh/Essentials, not to mention the 10 year neglect of ink.


still FURIOUS at MS for buying one of the best websites EVER and shutting it OFF

firefly.com
This was the best ever website for recommending books, movies and music, bar NONE.
No one has come close since them. Launchcast was pretty damn good. Pandera has a long way to go still, and only does music.

Firefly would recommend movies, based on your ratings of other movies.
Pissed me off it was so good. It kept recommending a stupid movie which I had not seen.
Finally broke down and watched it. Jacob's Ladder ... WTF!!!! Great movie!!

Amazon continues to try to do the same thing with its recommendations and they are complete failures. sigh
 
2012-12-13 10:40:17 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: I'll admit that Windows 8 is kind of a waste if your on a desktop or a regular laptop. Where it's going to shine is on the new "ultrabooks" that can be used as a tablet or a laptop.


Thankyou. Now we can agree. :P
 
2012-12-13 11:03:31 PM  
Lions are using computers now? We're farked.
 
2012-12-13 11:57:14 PM  
Desktops are old school anyway. Let them die.
 
2012-12-13 11:59:03 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Man, I saw "WP" and got all nostalgic for Word Perfect, the most intuitive word processor EVAR. God, MSWord is the shiats.


True dat. Nothing like reveal codes, and proper page layout.
 
2012-12-14 12:09:05 AM  
google making bullshiat excuses to avoid competition.
 
2012-12-14 04:20:54 AM  

symbolset: Desktops are old school anyway. Let them die.


you obviously don't belong in a discussion about technology or computing. they're not going anywhere.
 
2012-12-14 04:30:08 AM  

oren0: According to Apple, there have been 400 million total iOS devices activated since the OS's release in 2007, and fewer than 100 million copies of OSX sold. Call it 500 million devices since 2007.
According to Microsoft, it has sold 700 million copies of Win7 since its release in 2009, 40 million copies of Win8 in about a month, and about 70 million Xboxes. Ignore phones and call it 800 million devices since 2009.
According to Google, 500 million Android devices have been activated since 2008.

You can argue all day about the future, but I don't see how you can interpret these numbers and come to the conclusion that Microsoft is in third place this generation.


Give it two or three years and then we'll see where we are.

Pretty much everyone has a PC that does what they want. My mother has a 6 year old laptop. My PC is 5 years old. My father-in-law only has a 2 year old PC because his motherboard died (otherwise, he'd have a 6 year old PC). Unless you're running video encoding or 3D work or into hardcore gaming, you can get a laptop off eBay for £150 that will do what you need. Some of that is also about the features of PCs - we were all upgrading as we got things like USB, DVD playback and wifi.

Now look at phones. We've gone from basic phones that made calls and texts, to phones with cameras, to phones with better cameras, phones with GPS, programmable phones with stores etc etc. You want to see the future, look at the iPhone 5. Phone manufacturers have run out of new features. The cameras are good enough. You think sales of phones are going to remain where they are when manufacturers have nothing useful to add?
 
2012-12-14 08:53:45 AM  
Yeah, Vista had its defenders too. Didn't make it a good OS.
 
2012-12-14 09:02:35 AM  

imashark: A touch screen makes the paradigm actually make sense - I couldn't imagine only using Windows 8 with a mouse/keyboard. (Weirdly, people's proclamations that people don't want laptops with touchscreens makes me think that they've never tried it. I might not want a desktop with a touchscreen, but a 13" laptop - its actually awesome)


Having never used it, I've got no hands-on knowledge, but wouldn't a touchscreen on a laptop result in constant movement of the hinge, drastically accelerating its becoming loose with wear?
 
2012-12-14 09:30:33 AM  

imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.


Who gives a shiat about Windows RT?
 
2012-12-14 10:51:15 AM  
THAT was the article I just spent 5 mins trying to load on a bad 3g connection? I got just as much info from the fark headline and it didn't take a huge header and footer fulla crap to say it. Fark that site.
 
2012-12-14 01:50:25 PM  

farkeruk: Now look at phones. We've gone from basic phones that made calls and texts, to phones with cameras, to phones with better cameras, phones with GPS, programmable phones with stores etc etc. You want to see the future, look at the iPhone 5. Phone manufacturers have run out of new features. The cameras are good enough. You think sales of phones are going to remain where they are when manufacturers have nothing useful to add?


How substantive are the differences between the iPhone 3 and the iPhone 5, and yet people keep upgrading by the millions? How many people do you know that still use an iPhone 3 or older? Part of this is the carrier subsidized model for new phones that we have in the US, where you can get a relatively new phone for nearly free with contract every two years, but I understand Europe works differently in that regard.

Generally, though, many people want the newest and fastest thing. Another set of the market views technology as a fashion statement and refuses to be seen without the coolest new gadget. Finally, nearly half of people still have dumb phones, and the smartphone demographic is growing to both older people, younger kids (though I don't have any idea why an 8-year-old needs a smartphone), and developing countries. I'm not worried about the future growth of that industry at all.
 
2012-12-14 01:56:02 PM  

HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.

Who gives a shiat about Windows RT?


I do. I like having good battery life.
 
2012-12-14 02:00:56 PM  

imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.

Who gives a shiat about Windows RT?

I do. I like having good battery life.


Then you should think about a Nexus 7, an iPad, or a Transformer Prime, because the Surface's battery life is middling at best.
 
2012-12-14 02:50:13 PM  

HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.

Who gives a shiat about Windows RT?

I do. I like having good battery life.

Then you should think about a Nexus 7, an iPad, or a Transformer Prime, because the Surface's battery life is middling at best.


I have a Nexus 7. I'll likely get a Nexus 10. But the potential to have Windows -- and all the future apps that come with it -- on a tablet/laptop hybrid with Nexus-like battery life (surface itself is just one example, the ARM internals allows good battery life) is something I really want; without giving up the Google goodness.
 
2012-12-14 02:58:35 PM  

imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.

Who gives a shiat about Windows RT?

I do. I like having good battery life.

Then you should think about a Nexus 7, an iPad, or a Transformer Prime, because the Surface's battery life is middling at best.

I have a Nexus 7. I'll likely get a Nexus 10. But the potential to have Windows -- and all the future apps that come with it -- on a tablet/laptop hybrid with Nexus-like battery life (surface itself is just one example, the ARM internals allows good battery life) is something I really want; without giving up the Google goodness.


Windows RT is not Windows. Not only is it not compatible with all the Windows software that came before, for obvious reasons, but it's explicitly designed to not run any apps in Desktop mode except for IE and Office. Unless you really like Don't-Call-It-Metro Apps and MS's store, there's no point.
 
2012-12-14 03:15:15 PM  

HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: HeartBurnKid: imgod2u: Also, things like notifications are long past-due for PC's. And those really only come from apps.

Perhaps, but you don't need a full-on gmail app for that.

For Windows RT you do. One could argue the notification program is an "app".

Besides, being able to click the notification and be brought to gmail -- or even better, being able to preview the message and filter the notifications based on sender, subject, search string, etc, all of which Jelly Bean on Android supports -- are very useful features that are long overdue for PC's. Especially if said PC's wants to go into a tablet form factor where -- to conserve battery -- it sleeps most of the time but still receives push notifications.

Who gives a shiat about Windows RT?

I do. I like having good battery life.

Then you should think about a Nexus 7, an iPad, or a Transformer Prime, because the Surface's battery life is middling at best.

I have a Nexus 7. I'll likely get a Nexus 10. But the potential to have Windows -- and all the future apps that come with it -- on a tablet/laptop hybrid with Nexus-like battery life (surface itself is just one example, the ARM internals allows good battery life) is something I really want; without giving up the Google goodness.

Windows RT is not Windows. Not only is it not compatible with all the Windows software that came before, for obvious reasons, but it's explicitly designed to not run any apps in Desktop mode except for IE and Office. Unless you really like Don't-Call-It-Metro Apps and MS's store, there's no point.


Incorrect. It can run any app in desktop mode that has been made for Windows 8. In Microsoft's development suite, that is the default now. You don't necessarily have to have a metro UI but it's strongly recommended.

The limitation with RT isn't that apps can't run in desktop mode, it's that it has to be installed via the app store instead of an executable. That's a bit stupid on Microsoft's part but that doesn't mean they can't make developers do it for future applications.
 
2012-12-14 03:20:34 PM  

imgod2u: Incorrect. It can run any app in desktop mode that has been made for Windows 8. In Microsoft's development suite, that is the default now. You don't necessarily have to have a metro UI but it's strongly recommended.


Can you give me a citation on that? Because every review I've read says otherwise, including these ones from Ars Technica and Anandtech, and apparently Mozilla is also under the impression that they are not allowed to develop for Windows RT's desktop mode.
 
2012-12-14 05:22:09 PM  
I have been running win8 in VM for testing purposes. So far I am unimpressed. It feels like it should be called Windows 7.5 with a "new and improved!" shiatty interface. While it is not Vista or ME bad, I still recommend not upgrading from 7 to my customers because it is not worth the cost. Not to mention the headache of an end user relearning how to use their system. That is just asking for lost productivity
 
2012-12-16 04:12:13 AM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: Reality: When you stop pretending touch devices aren't computers, all versions of Windows combined only have a 20% marketshare.

[dl.dropbox.com image 850x520]

Why not add video game consoles in there too? Throw in smart TVs while you're at it. How about network gear? How are we arbitrarily defining "computer" this time around? Any digital device that performs math? Any consumer electronics device with a UI? Anything that can run a web-browser?


You have me wanting to know your definition. Mind sharing?
 
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