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(Daily Mail)   Mr Ilg woke from a night out at the strip club with no memory of the previous night but a credit card bill for more than $28k so does he. A) Pay the bill. C) Sue the club because he was drunk & 'no longer capable of conducting financial transactions'   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 181
    More: Dumbass, Mr Ilg, Hustler Club, Friendly's, duty to protect, credit card bill  
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8654 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 01:48:33 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: So what they're saying is that despite having consumed sufficient alcohol to severely impair his judgement, he's still legally considered responsible for his own actions.

I wonder if that legal principle could carry over to any other aspects of the law.


Let me answer the question you're really asking: NO.

If you have sex with her while she is intoxicated- and therefore unable to give consent- you cannot use "that legal principle" as a defense. Well, not successfully anyhow.

/dope slap for even wondering
 
2012-12-13 01:49:37 PM

CrazyCracka420: I know the law doesn't say so, and it's not an excuse for taking advantage of a drunk person...But i still wholeheartedly believe:

"Your sober self is responsible for your drunk self".

Meaning you made the choice to get drunk, you need to deal with the consequences of your actions. If you can't handle your drunk self, don't get drunk.


So no ladies can get drunk then get sexually assualted because they were asking for it.
 
2012-12-13 01:51:17 PM
$300 for a lap dance? iirc, hustler club charges $20 for a lap dance and $120 for a "private" dance (don't get worked up, the private booths have cams in it). they also have "hustler bucks", alternate $20 bills you can buy with your credit card, no need for an atm and you really don't want to be walking around on the edge of town with alot of cash.

way too many details missing from this story, especially what he bought to rack up $28K in charges. he probably got a private room and a few girls, it doubles as a hostess club. they probably have vids of him ordering/drinking everything that was on the bill and signing it.

csb:
a friend spent $20K at a strip club, he tried disputing it. the manager brought him the bill and told him they have vids of him ordering everything on the bill.
 
2012-12-13 01:53:32 PM

KatjaMouse: So if a girl gets blackout drunk at a bar she "consented"... then she was responsible for getting raped?


No. She is responsible for her own actions. Rape is someone else's action. She would be responsible if she voluntarily slept with someone who she wouldn't have slept with sober. Or she's responsible if she got in trouble for exposing herself outside or blowing all her money or something.
 
2012-12-13 01:54:25 PM

KatjaMouse: CrazyCracka420: I know the law doesn't say so, and it's not an excuse for taking advantage of a drunk person...But i still wholeheartedly believe:

"Your sober self is responsible for your drunk self".

Meaning you made the choice to get drunk, you need to deal with the consequences of your actions. If you can't handle your drunk self, don't get drunk.

So if a girl gets blackout drunk at a bar she "consented"... then she was responsible for getting raped?


No, dear, it's perfectly all right to get blackout drunk and get raped. Carry on without a care in the world.
 
2012-12-13 01:55:44 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: He said he had a huge gap in his memory and woke up the next day in Delaware after being driven home by a club employee

He got done over so hard that the employees decide to drive you home.... damn....


[img442.imageshack.us image 300x400]


1) They probably wanted to make sure he remained safe until he paid his credit card bill.

2) Would you mind posting those stripper photos on all your posts, regardless of the topic?
 
2012-12-13 01:55:57 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: If I don't remember it didn't happen.


Ah, yes. That'll definitely hold up in court. Case dismissed.
 
2012-12-13 01:57:55 PM
CSB incoming

I work in the claims division for Bank of America. A few years ago, one of my co-workers who worked fraud claims told me about a customer she had dealt with who was disputed something like $7K on his debit card from a strip club in Vegas. He claimed his wallet had been stolen, so after he completed the form we requested we went ahead with the chargeback. The merchant performed a representment (basically a rebuttal of the chargeback) and sent along a series of supporting documents including photos of him at their ATM making the withdrawals, a series of signed sales receipts for everything from dances to drinks, a carbon copy image of the front and back of his card with a note from him confirming that it was his card, an image of his BofA credit card (where he had another claim for a few thousand), another bank's Mastercard, and his Amex (each of which probably had similar charges), as well as an affidavit that he had signed stating that he was making these purchases of his own free will and that he was not impaired.

Suffice to say, his claim was denied.
 
2012-12-13 02:01:16 PM
So here's my thoughts, and I know you have been impatiently waiting, shouldn't the bill be tossed because the bar failed to cutoff an excessively drunk person? One would think even strip clubs are obligated to cut people off
 
2012-12-13 02:02:07 PM
Stripper thread!

Naomi Knight, naked in the rain NSFW
 
2012-12-13 02:04:34 PM
I'm sitting here trying to figure out how he could have racked up a bill this high, and I think I might have figured it out. Drinks and normal dances won't cut it, but some of the higher end strip clubs have ridiculously expensive VIP rooms. I have seems some that are $1000/30min. You get 2 girls and a bottle of wine or something. That would bring the price up to $12000 for 6 hours for yourself. But if you were drunk and offered to pay for a friend to join you, that would bring the total up to $24k. It also wouldn't surprise me if that "friend" was a stripper who was "off work that night" and was "just hanging out there."
 
2012-12-13 02:04:35 PM
Even if the drinks are overpriced, there is no way anyone on earth can suck down $28,000 worth of booze and stay alive.

Even by FARK standards that is impossible.
 
2012-12-13 02:06:19 PM

DirkTheDaring: Stripper thread!

Naomi Knight, naked in the rain NSFW


"Image removed for violating TOS." That was quick.
 
2012-12-13 02:06:57 PM

Stile4aly: CSB incoming


hah, a friend did something similar but in japan hostess club. he tried to dispute the bill but they strong armed him into signing it. disputed the charge when he came back and won.


strip clubs in the states do not mess around when it comes to collecting on the bill.
 
2012-12-13 02:07:39 PM

BarkingUnicorn: DirkTheDaring: Stripper thread!

Naomi Knight, naked in the rain NSFW

"Image removed for violating TOS." That was quick.


Damn.
 
2012-12-13 02:09:34 PM

olddinosaur: Even if the drinks are overpriced, there is no way anyone on earth can suck down $28,000 worth of booze and stay alive.

Even by FARK standards that is impossible.


You pay I'll play.

Challenge accepted
 
2012-12-13 02:09:55 PM

olddinosaur: Even if the drinks are overpriced, there is no way anyone on earth can suck down $28,000 worth of booze and stay alive.

Even by FARK standards that is impossible.


girls in hustler club will hang out with you if you get them drinks. who's to say he wasn't there to entertain his friends/clients and got carried away?
 
2012-12-13 02:11:56 PM

DirkTheDaring: Stripper thread!

Naomi Knight, naked in the rain NSFW


:(

http://imageshack.us/a/img543/2830/nap0541.jpg
 
2012-12-13 02:13:01 PM

AxemRed: KatjaMouse: So if a girl gets blackout drunk at a bar she "consented"... then she was responsible for getting raped?

No. She is responsible for her own actions. Rape is someone else's action. She would be responsible if she voluntarily slept with someone who she wouldn't have slept with sober. Or she's responsible if she got in trouble for exposing herself outside or blowing all her money or something.


Works at high level, but you start splitting hairs real quick. For example, if a guy was able to sit there, and through words alone convince a drunk woman to perform sexual acts on him, are those her actions or his actions? Making purchases while drunk is obviously the drunks action... but if a establishment exploits that situation? You've got to solve the question of culpability for convincing someone who's impaired to act. Seems like a messy question.

Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up.
 
2012-12-13 02:16:36 PM
Let's try that again:

Naomi Knight, naked in the rain NSFW
 
2012-12-13 02:19:18 PM

ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up.


No, it's how the issue of consent seems to vary wildly without a real logical explanation.

The issue of sex comes up because A LOT of people have found themselves facing charges or damaging accusations that they had sex with someone who was drunk. Ostensibly, the rational behind the accusation or charges is that a person who is intoxicated cannot give consent to have sex, thus making the encounter rape, sexual assault, etc.

How then can we square that concept with one where a person is very drunk, supposedly consents to buy expensive things, and is told that intoxication is his problem? It's not that way with a drunk person having sex. In sexual situation, the (more?) sober person is held responsible for not "taking advantage" of the less sober person.

Apparently in sexual situations, and only sexual situations, the person who is drunk cannot give consent and anything done to/with them is a crime. In all other situations, you're responsible for what happens to you while drunk and everyone else apparently bears no burden or liabilities for soliciting expensive purchases from you, etc.

Gee, I wonder why the comparisons keep coming up.
 
2012-12-13 02:20:25 PM
The Superintendant of schools in my home town got nailed for running up $185,000 in charges at strip clubs.

Tax money too.
 
2012-12-13 02:20:35 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: She claims in her profile to be a Patent Attorney and I would like to find out which law office so that I can tell our company officers to avoid that office like the plague.


Patent Attorneys aren't lawyers.
/Can appear in front of patent courts though
 
2012-12-13 02:21:42 PM
The club I frequent most often (loose interpretation) is a real stickler about getting signatures on tabs for this exact reason. It happens all the time, even on small tabs because the husband freaks out when he gets the bill and the wife makes him dispute the charges because "baby, they are not mine I swear!". There is not much of a risk of over charging in Atlanta since the Gold Club was ran out of business for doing that back in the 90's.

My buddy has a system. Instead of starting a CC tab he brings cash and asks the manager that works the bar (a guy he trusts) to hold it for him. He tells him to pay for his rounds out of the cash, and cut him off when he gets to the last 20% or so, which becomes the tip. So far, no problems.
 
2012-12-13 02:22:25 PM

ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up.


Just bringing up the alcohol/judgement impairment arguments. I'm sick of hearing guys saying that a drunk chick waking up sober the next morning suffered "buyers remorse". And considering that's the phrase most often thrown out there after an accusation of rape we can flip it around in this case as well.
 
2012-12-13 02:23:28 PM
I cannot see, how someone could spend 28 grand at a strip club.
this wasn't cash he was throwing around, these were charges on a card.

totally ripping him off
or epic evening ...

I'm calling shenanigans on the club
 
2012-12-13 02:26:28 PM
Maybe she told him she was working her way through college so he bought her a year at Arizona State?
It's not his fault he didn't notice the "Bursar's Office" was a meth lab
 
2012-12-13 02:26:45 PM

skrame: 1. A lot of you farkers are getting hung up on the whole contract angle. The problem is this is charges for goods or services consumed, not a contract. There's a huge difference. If I'm stoned and drunk and walk into the Qwik-E Mart across the way and buy some Doritos and Beef Jerky, I can't come back the next day and say I didn't really mean to buy that stuff. I consumed the goods, and therefore should have to pay for them. If he was drunk and wanted strippers, give him strippers! Even drunk dudes know they want naked chicks.

2. That leads us to the other point that farkers are getting hung up on. $28,000 is a lot to spend at a strip club. However, that amount doesn't automatically mean that the the customer was robbed, or that he was taken advantage of while he was drunk. There are bottles or wine and champagne that cost six figures. This dude could have have bought a $25,000 bottle of wine when he came in sober, and then people around him thanked him by buying him shots and well drinks, farking him up. This stuff happens (to people other than me).

Despite my last point, I do realize it's possible that he was to drunk to order more drinks. However, the burden of proof is on him. The case isn't an automatic slam dunk.


SO much this. I bar tend in a strip club. Typically some douche will come in with a credit card, try to be the big dude and buy drinks for everyone at the bar (for the girls it's $20/ea) + champagne (can be $1000/bottle) plus whatever table dances/lap dances/vip. At the club I work in, you can buy monopoly money to tip the girls (this is for people who don't have cash available but lots of room on the credit cards) with your credit card---there's a surcharge added on to this of 10%---and I'm in Florida. I'm sure that the charges for everything are MUCH MUCH higher in NY. It wouldn't take much time but lots of douchebaggery to make a $28k bill happen.
 
2012-12-13 02:27:06 PM
Ilg

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-13 02:27:27 PM

LaraAmber: Okay, leaving aside the idiot with the charge card for a second.

Honest girl question to the guys about the pictures. What is with men and lusting after women who can get into extreme poses? Do you have any proof that this makes sex better when she has one foot touching a ceiling fixture and the other perched on the top of the back of the chair? Do you think she could actually hold that pose while you are farking her? Is it just a recognition that she probably has some serious body strength? (So why not getting turned on by the body building chicks?)


As a woman who is a former gymnast and ballet dancer and who is still very toned and flexible, BFs/lovers in my past have said it is that physical ability that allows for all kinds of positioning. Also, years of gymnastics and ballet also create a much tighter vag.
 
2012-12-13 02:28:21 PM

TNel: CrazyCracka420: I know the law doesn't say so, and it's not an excuse for taking advantage of a drunk person...But i still wholeheartedly believe:

"Your sober self is responsible for your drunk self".

Meaning you made the choice to get drunk, you need to deal with the consequences of your actions. If you can't handle your drunk self, don't get drunk.

So no ladies can get drunk then get sexually assualted because they were asking for it.


You're tossing a red herring... There is an idea floating around that if a person is intoxicated when they consent, it is not legitimate because they cannot legitimately consent to actions while intoxicated. Ifa person can be held accountable for the decision to drive a car, the decision to purchase services, the decision to physically assault, etc. while intoxicated, why does the decision to engage in sexual activities fall into a separate category.
 
2012-12-13 02:28:29 PM

Talondel: DammitIForgotMyLogin: I wonder if that legal principle could carry over to any other aspects of the law.

Theaetetus: Lucy v. Zehmer says your statement is naive and incorrect and that you need to ask for your law school tuition back. Try telling them you were drunk when you enrolled.

That isn't what Lucy v. Zehmer says. That case is in law school text to illustrate the fact that the intent to contract is based upon an objective test. That is, if a reasonable person observing your behavior would assume that you intended to enter into a contract, then you will be held to have the requisite intent even if you subjectively did not intend to enter a contract.

In simpler terms, Lucy v. Zehmer means you can't sign a contract while appearing to be serious, then later get out of it by saying 'Heh, I was only joking,' even if you really were only joking. It's your outward conduct that matters, not your internal thoughts.

Lucy v. Zehmer would have little application here, because this isn't a case about whether the person had a subjective or objective intent to contract.


Au contraire, Zehmer also raised the defense that he was drinking and therefore lacked capacity to contract. The court noted that there was no evidence of his lack of capacity, and absent that, the fact that he was drinking was irrelevant.
Thus, as I said, his statement that "a contract is not legally enforceable if the signatory is drunk" is incorrect and naive, in that it's overly broad. If the other party to the contract has no reason to believe the signatory is drunk, then the contract is not necessarily voidable.
Consider, for example, the statement in The Restatement (2d) of Contracts § 16. Just in case you haven't seen it before, I'll quote it for you:
"A person incurs only voidable contractual duties by entering into a transaction if the other party has reason to know that by reason of intoxication

(a) he is unable to understand in a reasonable manner the nature and consequences of the transaction, or
(b) he is unable to act in a reasonable manner in relation to the transaction."

The above is an accurate description of why Zehmer's defense failed, and is why his statement was overbroad.
 
2012-12-13 02:29:44 PM

AbbeySomeone: Many moons ago I had a brief gig as a B girl in a strip club in the Quarter. I was broke but walked out the second night I was there after learning what the place was all about.
Get 'em in, get a credit card, blah blah.
Because People in power are Stupid: I've been waiting for this to happen. A contract is not legally enforceable if the signatory is drunk.

Shame is a big factor in these negotiations. Many people will pay to get it to go away.


Dammit! Don't say you worked in a titty bar, with no pics in your profile.

/mmph.
 
2012-12-13 02:29:58 PM

LaraAmber: Okay, leaving aside the idiot with the charge card for a second.

Honest girl question to the guys about the pictures. What is with men and lusting after women who can get into extreme poses? Do you have any proof that this makes sex better when she has one foot touching a ceiling fixture and the other perched on the top of the back of the chair? Do you think she could actually hold that pose while you are farking her? Is it just a recognition that she probably has some serious body strength? (So why not getting turned on by the body building chicks?)


You sound fat.
 
2012-12-13 02:34:16 PM

Theaetetus: if the other party has reason to know


Uh huh, Talondel very clearly said that. So in this case where the bar had been serving the guy drinks. They didn't know that he was intoxicated?

Which firm do you work for? Our company has multiple IP firms and I'd like to make sure that yours is not one of them.
 
2012-12-13 02:34:20 PM

pedrop357: ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up.

No, it's how the issue of consent seems to vary wildly without a real logical explanation.

The issue of sex comes up because A LOT of people have found themselves facing charges or damaging accusations that they had sex with someone who was drunk. Ostensibly, the rational behind the accusation or charges is that a person who is intoxicated cannot give consent to have sex, thus making the encounter rape, sexual assault, etc.

How then can we square that concept with one where a person is very drunk, supposedly consents to buy expensive things, and is told that intoxication is his problem? It's not that way with a drunk person having sex. In sexual situation, the (more?) sober person is held responsible for not "taking advantage" of the less sober person.

Apparently in sexual situations, and only sexual situations, the person who is drunk cannot give consent and anything done to/with them is a crime. In all other situations, you're responsible for what happens to you while drunk and everyone else apparently bears no burden or liabilities for soliciting expensive purchases from you, etc.

Gee, I wonder why the comparisons keep coming up.


But... once you get out of college you figure out that people are constantly consenting to sex while drunk constantly. The whole "chicks can't consent while drunk" is to try to keep dumb kids from date-raping, that's all.
 
2012-12-13 02:35:35 PM

Izunbacol: TNel: CrazyCracka420: I know the law doesn't say so, and it's not an excuse for taking advantage of a drunk person...But i still wholeheartedly believe:

"Your sober self is responsible for your drunk self".

Meaning you made the choice to get drunk, you need to deal with the consequences of your actions. If you can't handle your drunk self, don't get drunk.

So no ladies can get drunk then get sexually assualted because they were asking for it.

You're tossing a red herring... There is an idea floating around that if a person is intoxicated when they consent, it is not legitimate because they cannot legitimately consent to actions while intoxicated. Ifa person can be held accountable for the decision to drive a car, the decision to purchase services, the decision to physically assault, etc. while intoxicated, why does the decision to engage in sexual activities fall into a separate category.


Because women are good at nagging.
 
2012-12-13 02:37:46 PM

ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up


I don't think it comes up because there is a "connection" but because people have double standards.
 
2012-12-13 02:38:54 PM

dk47: pedrop357: ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up.

No, it's how the issue of consent seems to vary wildly without a real logical explanation.

The issue of sex comes up because A LOT of people have found themselves facing charges or damaging accusations that they had sex with someone who was drunk. Ostensibly, the rational behind the accusation or charges is that a person who is intoxicated cannot give consent to have sex, thus making the encounter rape, sexual assault, etc.

How then can we square that concept with one where a person is very drunk, supposedly consents to buy expensive things, and is told that intoxication is his problem? It's not that way with a drunk person having sex. In sexual situation, the (more?) sober person is held responsible for not "taking advantage" of the less sober person.

Apparently in sexual situations, and only sexual situations, the person who is drunk cannot give consent and anything done to/with them is a crime. In all other situations, you're responsible for what happens to you while drunk and everyone else apparently bears no burden or liabilities for soliciting expensive purchases from you, etc.

Gee, I wonder why the comparisons keep coming up.

But... once you get out of college you figure out that people are constantly consenting to sex while drunk constantly. The whole "chicks can't consent while drunk" is to try to keep dumb kids from date-raping, that's all.


dumb meaning.. gay??
 
2012-12-13 02:39:30 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Theaetetus: if the other party has reason to know

Uh huh, Talondel very clearly said that.


Yep, and so did I. Talondel and I are in agreement on the law, and merely disagree on whether my calling your statement "incorrect and naive" was right or not. Maybe he's kinder to idiots giving bad legal advice than I am.
 
2012-12-13 02:42:59 PM

Theaetetus: Because People in power are Stupid: Theaetetus: if the other party has reason to know

Uh huh, Talondel very clearly said that.

Yep, and so did I. Talondel and I are in agreement on the law, and merely disagree on whether my calling your statement "incorrect and naive" was right or not. Maybe he's kinder to idiots giving bad legal advice than I am.


We are in agreement. You shouldn't give legal advice.
 
2012-12-13 02:52:31 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: dk47: pedrop357: ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up.

No, it's how the issue of consent seems to vary wildly without a real logical explanation.

The issue of sex comes up because A LOT of people have found themselves facing charges or damaging accusations that they had sex with someone who was drunk. Ostensibly, the rational behind the accusation or charges is that a person who is intoxicated cannot give consent to have sex, thus making the encounter rape, sexual assault, etc.

How then can we square that concept with one where a person is very drunk, supposedly consents to buy expensive things, and is told that intoxication is his problem? It's not that way with a drunk person having sex. In sexual situation, the (more?) sober person is held responsible for not "taking advantage" of the less sober person.

Apparently in sexual situations, and only sexual situations, the person who is drunk cannot give consent and anything done to/with them is a crime. In all other situations, you're responsible for what happens to you while drunk and everyone else apparently bears no burden or liabilities for soliciting expensive purchases from you, etc.

Gee, I wonder why the comparisons keep coming up.

But... once you get out of college you figure out that people are constantly consenting to sex while drunk constantly. The whole "chicks can't consent while drunk" is to try to keep dumb kids from date-raping, that's all.

dumb meaning.. gay??


Dumb gays dumb straights, pretty much anybody dumb enough to try it.
 
2012-12-13 03:01:52 PM
Uh, $300 for one 'dance'?

You gotta be kidding me.
 
2012-12-13 03:04:52 PM

CujoQuarrel: Uh, $300 for one 'dance'?

You gotta be kidding me.


You can get a nice escort for about that price and get some action out of it.
 
2012-12-13 03:06:08 PM

Stile4aly: I work in the claims division for Bank of America.


I hate your employer
 
2012-12-13 03:09:42 PM
 
2012-12-13 03:17:54 PM

DirkTheDaring: Outdoor strippers need lots of sunblock NSFW


I there some point to all this? Porn is free. We don't need Fark to go find it. You must be new.
 
2012-12-13 03:22:24 PM
Oh hai guize, is the the thread where people with internet GEDs in law pontificate?
 
2012-12-13 03:30:26 PM

fanbladesaresharp: DirkTheDaring: Outdoor strippers need lots of sunblock NSFW

I there some point to all this? Porn is free. We don't need Fark to go find it. You must be new.


F*ck you. There is always a point to porn. ALWAYS. 

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-13 03:36:49 PM

liam76: ProfessorOhki: Also, it's creepy how naturally the consent to money v. consent to sex analogies seem to crop up. Our society is sort of farked up

I don't think it comes up because there is a "connection" but because people have double standards.


I didn't mean that there was a connection; I just meant it's telling that "being taken advantage of" in general is pretty much default sexual for women and default financial for men. It's awkward when you're writing something then pause and go, "wait, why did I just equivocate those."
 
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