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(The Atlantic)   Startup car company builds car that "breaks the rules." Apparently, Rule Number One was don't build a car that looks like a shopping cart   (theatlantic.com) divider line 302
    More: Asinine, Rule Number One, car pools, electric cars, battery packs  
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27716 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2012 at 11:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 09:52:35 AM
In fact, the C-1 isn't really a car at all: It's officially classified as a motorcycle, but CEO Daniel Kim says that the vehicle resists classification.

"It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.


That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.
 
2012-12-13 09:56:29 AM
"Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.
 
2012-12-13 10:01:20 AM
This is not going to end well. Especially if it makes it to the showroom.
 
2012-12-13 10:09:47 AM

hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.


Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.
 
2012-12-13 10:26:30 AM

Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.


Having done over $6000.00 damage to a Jeep Wrangler, I was thinking of animal collisions

/deer, specifically
//frikkin deer
 
2012-12-13 10:31:19 AM
Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.
 
2012-12-13 10:47:34 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Having done over $6000.00 damage to a Jeep Wrangler, I was thinking of animal collisions

/deer, specifically
//frikkin deer


My brother hit a deer one night years ago. He was freaked out, so he got to a gas station and called the police from a pay phone (this was before everyone and their brother had cell phones). He tells the officer he needs to report an accident, and it's three a.m. and he says, "I hit a deer and damaged my car," and the officer, having heard this one before at this particular hour from people probably trying to cover up a drunk driving incident, says somewhat sarcastically, "Right, sir, of course, and how are you sure it was a deer you hit?" My brother says, "Well, there's a lot of deer snot on my windshield now, for one." The cop burst out laughing and said he was sending someone over.
 
2012-12-13 11:44:01 AM
It's a tricycle.
 
2012-12-13 11:44:50 AM
I think I saw this one on Mario Karts.
 
2012-12-13 11:44:54 AM
images.zap2it.com

Unimpressed.
 
2012-12-13 11:46:03 AM
Great now sell that bad boy for around $5000, that would really disrupt the market.
 
2012-12-13 11:46:48 AM
FTA: Today's youths are less interested in buying cars than they are in buying iPhones and other gadgets: Car ownership among people between ages 18 and 34 is down by 30 percent in the last five years.


If only there were some other explanation for this, something other than marketing trends, like an economic cause ...

This thing is definitely a solution in search of a problem. I'm sure it'll be just as successful as the Segway, and for all the same reasons.
 
2012-12-13 11:47:36 AM
Startup car company builds car that "breaks the rules." Looks like a trike with some kind of shell bolted to it. 
 
2012-12-13 11:48:06 AM
Looks like a motorcycle with a cab on it.
 
2012-12-13 11:48:43 AM
Lit Motors

Yes, yes they were.
 
2012-12-13 11:49:07 AM

St_Francis_P: In fact, the C-1 isn't really a car at all: It's officially classified as a motorcycle, but CEO Daniel Kim says that the vehicle resists classification.

"It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.


This guy needs a serious punch in the balls.
 
2012-12-13 11:49:19 AM
FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?
 
2012-12-13 11:49:23 AM

kmmontandon: FTA: Today's youths are less interested in buying cars than they are in buying iPhones and other gadgets: Car ownership among people between ages 18 and 34 is down by 30 percent in the last five years.


If only there were some other explanation for this, something other than marketing trends, like an economic cause ...

This thing is definitely a solution in search of a problem. I'm sure it'll be just as successful as the Segway, and for all the same reasons.


You mean like people 18-34 being saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of debt if they went to a state school and hundreds of thousands if they went to top tier school for their Bachelors degrees?
 
2012-12-13 11:49:32 AM
This is vaporware like the last few electric car startups.

That's fine with me so long as the Obama administration doesn't invest our money in other failure.
 
rpl
2012-12-13 11:49:33 AM
farm2.static.flickr.com
 
2012-12-13 11:49:45 AM
onscreencars.com

/broke the rules first
 
2012-12-13 11:49:55 AM
I agree. The price of this thing will determine whether it goes anywhere.

20 thousand dollars?
--Nope. People will just buy a normal car.

5 thousand dollars?
--Well, hell. I just might consider it.

That's the trouble with these green technologies. Micro houses, smart cars...they all cost way too much. People would buy this stuff if the price reflected what they are getting upfront.
 
2012-12-13 11:50:02 AM
Oh look, yet another asshole who slapped some side panels on a motorcycle and thinks it's as good as a real car.

Go back to Europe!
 
2012-12-13 11:50:12 AM
I'd prefer to have a car that doesn't need a gyroscope to keep from tipping over.
 
2012-12-13 11:50:18 AM

Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?


Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.
 
2012-12-13 11:50:19 AM
90% of my daily driving is around base. i could see the appeal in driving something compact cheap and mostly devoid of fuel cost
 
2012-12-13 11:50:26 AM
Yeah, well one rule they shouldn't break: you put two wheels in the FRONT of the car. Handling, braking, and stability are improved.
 
2012-12-13 11:50:49 AM
Startup car company builds car that "breaks the rules." Apparently, Rule Number One was don't build a car that looks like a shopping go cart

FTFS
 
2012-12-13 11:51:00 AM
Being trapped in a small fibreglass egg with my own flatus? Um, no.
 
2012-12-13 11:51:02 AM
Somewhere, Sir Clive Sinclair is amused by this.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-13 11:51:24 AM

fruitloop: Lit Motors

Yes, yes they were.


I think this douchebag is his own worst enemy...
 
2012-12-13 11:51:50 AM
cdn.theatlantic.com

goodiesfirst.typepad.com
 
2012-12-13 11:52:03 AM
Welcome to 1982
Link

www.lostepcot.com
 
2012-12-13 11:52:07 AM
I'm not sure I really see the appeal over a regular motorcycle.
 
2012-12-13 11:52:42 AM
For $10,000 I'd seriously look at one. For $20,000 not so much.

For $20,000 you can have a Scion IQ, Fiat 500, or smart car + gas for several years.
 
2012-12-13 11:52:43 AM
Very cool idea.

I'll just take another FZ1. More fun, half the price, greater field of vision. Not all weather though.
 
2012-12-13 11:52:46 AM
"New" idea, "breaks the rules" that's "disrupting the automotive space:"

bikeweb.com
 
2012-12-13 11:52:51 AM
I wonder how it handles in the snow.
 
2012-12-13 11:52:57 AM

RTOGUY: Can it handle a 3' snowdrift?


A FWD Jeep can't handle a 3' drift unless the driver *really* knows what he/she is doing.
 
2012-12-13 11:52:58 AM
www.jeremyclarksonsucks.com
 
2012-12-13 11:53:00 AM
Completely Original. Yep.

www.blogcdn.com
imgace.com
 
2012-12-13 11:53:10 AM

RTOGUY: Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.


San Francisco... not much snow in their forecast EVER.
 
2012-12-13 11:53:25 AM
We've got quite a few people here where I live that drive tiny, tin-can deathtraps like this. One good smash on the driver's side door, the hood or anywhere else and you're toast.
 
2012-12-13 11:53:30 AM
I wanna know where subby shops that has carts that look like that.
 
2012-12-13 11:53:30 AM
The type of revolutionary design that will turn the world upside down!
i.imgur.com 

Couldn't link to an upside down Robin pic... all the sites hosting them were websensed.
 
2012-12-13 11:54:10 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Having done over $6000.00 damage to a Jeep Wrangler, I was thinking of animal collisions

/deer, specifically
//frikkin deer


Deer? I'm not sure that thing would survive an impact with a raccoon.
 
2012-12-13 11:54:12 AM

pastorkius: The type of revolutionary design that will turn the world upside down!
[i.imgur.com image 468x286] 

Couldn't link to an upside down Robin pic... all the sites hosting them were websensed.


Bah! Beaten!
 
2012-12-13 11:54:23 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/goldman-sachs-progress/archive/ 2012/12/lit-motors-builds-a-car-that-b reaks-the-rules/265768/?oref=goldman-ob

plug?
 
2012-12-13 11:54:24 AM
Not a bad concept, but I'd let the early adopters take a go at it first. If it lives up to the hype and survives the lawsuits, I won't laugh at them anymore.
 
2012-12-13 11:54:25 AM
it is classified as a motorcycle
do you have to get a motorcycle license?
its been a long time but is the dmv test geared to something like this? i mean the balance test and driving through a slalom, figure 8,and all that? i can see either the dmv guy having to move the cones around every time one of these shows up. or if i owned a hipster motorcycle dealership i'd keep one of these on hand so your first time bike owner customers can borrow it and pass their test with it.
 
2012-12-13 11:54:55 AM

RTOGUY: Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.


Not every car is going to be ideal for every climate.

It'd be like buying a mustang or crossfire if you live up north and thinking it will work as a daily commuter all year. This is for people that are in cities where parking is tight, commutes are short, and roads are cleared on the rare chance they do get snow.
 
2012-12-13 11:55:09 AM
Unimpressed:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-13 11:55:12 AM

rpl: [farm2.static.flickr.com image 500x375]


Kind of looks like a Technobot.
 
2012-12-13 11:55:49 AM

starlost: hipster motorcycle dealership


I think that's next to the store that sells pink unicorn feed.
 
2012-12-13 11:55:58 AM

Slaves2Darkness:
Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.


The car is electric, so no gas. goes 200miles on a full charge
 
2012-12-13 11:56:02 AM
So it's a shiatty motorcycle for one and a potentially unsafe car for the price of a decent small car.

Definitely a winner.
 
2012-12-13 11:56:21 AM
Disruptive technology is something that disrupts the market. If you release something like this and it causes a mass exodus from cars such that automakers must start imitating your product to survive, that's disruptive technology.

This is a prototype.

You haven't disrupted anything.

And this is nothing near what the Tesla Roadster is. What chimp thinks his little toy car is up to par with one of the best sports cars of all time? The Roadster is up there with the Audi S5 or the Chevrolet Camaro; this is a nice piece of tech, but it's not in that space at all.
 
2012-12-13 11:57:36 AM
Aren't they kind of limiting their market by making it a motorcycle? I don't have a motorcycle license, and I wouldn't go get one just to spend sixteen thousand on that thing. Fleets won't want to use them for that same reason I'd think.
 
2012-12-13 11:57:45 AM

SuperChuck: I wanna know where subby shops that has carts that look like that.


Maybe they have carts for the kids.

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-13 11:57:57 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com 

No thanks.
 
2012-12-13 11:58:30 AM
$16K... really?

For a motorcycle with a gyro and fairings?
Nah.

Next!
 
2012-12-13 11:58:54 AM
www.motorcycleadvocates.com


A gyroscope that prevents its tipping, eh?

I wonder, how will that affect its ability to negotiate curves?
 
2012-12-13 11:59:11 AM
Around town, maybe. Interstate, HELL no.

/Dragon's tail, fun fun
 
2012-12-13 11:59:14 AM
Put me on the list of people who had to stop at "automotive space". Ugh.
 
2012-12-13 12:00:27 PM
""Right now, electric cars are not sustainable," he says. "The average electric car battery pack is four times larger than ours, with one-third the range. If every car in the U.S. had that battery pack, we would need to produce four times more energy to compensate for that. Where is all that energy going to come from?""

Gasoline-fired power plants.

Duh!
 
2012-12-13 12:00:35 PM
I think I'd rather buy a Corolla...
 
2012-12-13 12:00:38 PM

pastorkius: The type of revolutionary design that will turn the world upside down!
[i.imgur.com image 468x286] 

Couldn't link to an upside down Robin pic... all the sites hosting them were websensed.


Yeah, Dyson did it right. He put a tadpole design in... two wheels up front, single rear wheel, rear steering. The problem with a single wheel up front is your cornering force leans more on the front wheel, since it's leading and the act of turning is technically braking in the forward direction and accelerating in a tangential direction. Braking shifts load forward, and now your forward-shifted load is leaning to one side... where there is no wheel.
 
2012-12-13 12:00:41 PM
Was it "Don't build a car that no one will buy"?
 
2012-12-13 12:00:45 PM
According to Kim, it's a concept whose time has come. Today's youths are less interested in buying cars than they are in buying iPhones and other gadgets: Car ownership among people between ages 18 and 34 is down by 30 percent in the last five years.

It's cute when urban people, particularly those who live in high density mass transit areas, try to apply urban sensibilities to things going on outside the city limits.

All my younger nieces and nephews want a CAR when they get a bit older. They may also want an iPhone, but they want their own means of transportation and they don't want one that is a glorified Vespa. If car ownership is down, it is because so are employment rate among teens, while insurance rates continue ever upward.
 
2012-12-13 12:00:53 PM
If it can't tow 20,000 lbs. up a 7% grade on gravel during a blizzard, then fat chance ever selling a single one, amirite?

/[ohlookitsthisthreadagain.png]
 
2012-12-13 12:01:07 PM
If only there were some other explanation for this, something other than marketing trends, like an economic cause ...


Like a generation realizing that it makes no sense to spend 22K on a two ton fashion accessory, and that it's best to figure out how to get from A to B in the most economical way instead?

Even if you get an iPhone out of vanity, that's $600 of vanity. But a car? Who's the frivolous one here? The youngsters with their fancy phones or the old fartes?
 
2012-12-13 12:02:14 PM

sp86: I wonder how it handles in the snow.


I'm sure its fine for around your gated community in Florida or Arizona where you're driving between home, the pool, and the club house.

I wonder how it handles on the highway between 2 18-Wheelers going 80mph.
 
2012-12-13 12:02:56 PM

Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.


Well, deathtrap is a bit extreme. It's no more a deathtrap than a motorcycle or a scooter, at first glance. The "safety of a car" quote is mind boggling. That just seems unpossible.
 
2012-12-13 12:03:11 PM
Lit, huh? Looks like someone was lit when they designed it.
 
2012-12-13 12:03:42 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?

Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.


For awhile Kia had an actual buy-one-get-one-free promotion, where if you bought a Kia Sorento at full price (something like $18,000) they would give you a Kia Rio for free.

So for $18,000, you could get a new SUV AND a car that got roughly 35 mpg.
 
2012-12-13 12:04:05 PM

Pair-o-Dice: /Dragon's tail


live near it in Maryville....yes, it is :-)
 
2012-12-13 12:04:32 PM

ph0rk: starlost: hipster motorcycle dealership

I think that's next to the store that sells pink unicorn feed.


There are several in Portland. Seriously. They sell a lot of scooters and ironic old bikes.
 
2012-12-13 12:05:08 PM

pastorkius: The type of revolutionary design that will turn the world upside down!
[i.imgur.com image 468x286] 

Couldn't link to an upside down Robin pic... all the sites hosting them were websensed.


stuffpoint.com

/wanted for questioning
 
2012-12-13 12:05:40 PM

error 303: Slaves2Darkness: Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?

Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.

For awhile Kia had an actual buy-one-get-one-free promotion, where if you bought a Kia Sorento at full price (something like $18,000) they would give you a Kia Rio for free.

So for $18,000, you could get a new SUV AND a car that got roughly 35 mpg.


If you're referring to the first generation Kia Rio, that's not really true. The car got 26 mpg in mixed driving.

/Used to have one, it was a piece of crap
//I kind of miss it though
 
2012-12-13 12:05:47 PM

Gordon Bennett: Somewhere, Sir Clive Sinclair is amused by this.

[i.imgur.com image 634x436]


yeah, it's even named similarly.

The market is Japan. They'll sell millions of these. (imagine hello kitty on the side, combined with the lower age limit for MC license = daddy's-little-girl's-dream-bike.)

There is also a strong market in larger European cities where parking space is as valuable as real estate elsewhere in the country.

I'd buy one to if I lived in the inner-city again. Push-bike on sunny days, this penis-bot for rainy days.
 
2012-12-13 12:05:59 PM

tricycleracer: If it can't tow 20,000 lbs. up a 7% grade on gravel during a blizzard, then fat chance ever selling a single one, amirite?


cdn.niketalk.com
 
2012-12-13 12:06:32 PM

bluefoxicy: And this is nothing near what the Tesla Roadster is. What chimp thinks his little toy car is up to par with one of the best sports cars of all time? The Roadster is up there with the Audi S5 or the Chevrolet Camaro


The Tesla Roadster isn't one of the best sports cars of all time, especially according to Top Gear.

Also, the S5 isn't really a sports car, it's more of a grand tourer.
 
2012-12-13 12:06:45 PM

Arcanum: This is vaporware like the last few electric car startups.

That's fine with me so long as the Obama administration doesn't invest our money in other failure.


What, like the $17 Billion+ bail out (investment) G.W. Bush got for the big 3?
 
2012-12-13 12:06:51 PM

hdhale: According to Kim, it's a concept whose time has come. Today's youths are less interested in buying cars than they are in buying iPhones and other gadgets: Car ownership among people between ages 18 and 34 is down by 30 percent in the last five years.

It's cute when urban people, particularly those who live in high density mass transit areas, try to apply urban sensibilities to things going on outside the city limits.

All my younger nieces and nephews want a CAR when they get a bit older. They may also want an iPhone, but they want their own means of transportation and they don't want one that is a glorified Vespa. If car ownership is down, it is because so are employment rate among teens, while insurance rates continue ever upward.


It's cute when people ignore hard statistical facts with limited personal anecdotes.
 
2012-12-13 12:07:20 PM

doczoidberg: I agree. The price of this thing will determine whether it goes anywhere.

20 thousand dollars?
--Nope. People will just buy a normal car.

5 thousand dollars?
--Well, hell. I just might consider it.

That's the trouble with these green technologies. Micro houses, smart cars...they all cost way too much. People would buy this stuff if the price reflected what they are getting upfront.


I keep looking at the Kawasaki and Polaris big boy toys and think that would make a great bare bones commuter vehicle. Basically take a dune buggy, put a metal shell over the engine compartment, enclose the cab in fabric like the old Wranglers and put a small waterproof box in the back. A small turbocharged diesel engine ought to be able to take that around the block at 60+mpg with no problem.

Since it's all basically tube steel and fabric you could sell that for $4-5K each and make a killing.
 
2012-12-13 12:07:25 PM
"We're at the same place that Tesla was at after $7 million in investment after only $780,000. We've been incredibly resourceful," says Kim.

A++++, would chortle again!
 
2012-12-13 12:07:29 PM
maybe it's just me... but where would the average apartment dwelling city slicker charge an electric vehicle?
hell I have to leave my place to just vacuum my car.
 
2012-12-13 12:07:55 PM
Eeeevaaa!

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-13 12:07:56 PM
Conflagrations, you built and electric Vespa with a Tupperware shell. Let me know how it does when some drunken soccer mom in a Escalade blows a stop sign and run in to you. On the bright side maybe some of your internal organs will remain inside the only vehicle after the crash.

That makes a Prius look like a Hummer.
 
2012-12-13 12:08:39 PM
I'm not getting why some of you think this thing has three wheels. Did you read the article or even bother looking at the photograph? IT ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS.
 
2012-12-13 12:09:08 PM

Sticky Hands: maybe it's just me... but where would the average apartment dwelling city slicker charge an electric vehicle?
hell I have to leave my place to just vacuum my car.


The grand idea is to turn every parking meter into a charging station.

static.davidreport.com
 
2012-12-13 12:09:16 PM

St_Francis_P: In fact, the C-1 isn't really a car at all: It's officially classified as a motorcycle, but CEO Daniel Kim says that the vehicle resists classification.

"It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.


Sounds hipster
 
2012-12-13 12:09:28 PM

ocschwar: If only there were some other explanation for this, something other than marketing trends, like an economic cause ...


Like a generation realizing that it makes no sense to spend 22K on a two ton fashion accessory, and that it's best to figure out how to get from A to B in the most economical way instead?

Even if you get an iPhone out of vanity, that's $600 of vanity. But a car? Who's the frivolous one here? The youngsters with their fancy phones or the old fartes?


You do realize that even if you choose not to drive a two ton fashion accessory, a lot of people still will. And they'll be talking on their cell phone while doing it. And you probably don't want to be in this thing when they hit you.
 
2012-12-13 12:09:48 PM

ani23: So it's a shiatty motorcycle for one and a potentially unsafe car for the price of a decent small car.

Definitely a winner.


But..but...green...something something...
 
2012-12-13 12:10:30 PM

bluefoxicy: And this is nothing near what the Tesla Roadster is. What chimp thinks his little toy car is up to par with one of the best sports cars of all time? The Roadster is up there with the Audi S5 or the Chevrolet Camaro; this is a nice piece of tech, but it's not in that space at all.


I have a hard time taking you seriously when you mention the Tesla, an Audi S5 and the farking Camaro and you're talking about the best sports cars of all time.
 
2012-12-13 12:11:57 PM

impaler: hdhale: According to Kim, it's a concept whose time has come. Today's youths are less interested in buying cars than they are in buying iPhones and other gadgets: Car ownership among people between ages 18 and 34 is down by 30 percent in the last five years.

It's cute when urban people, particularly those who live in high density mass transit areas, try to apply urban sensibilities to things going on outside the city limits.

All my younger nieces and nephews want a CAR when they get a bit older. They may also want an iPhone, but they want their own means of transportation and they don't want one that is a glorified Vespa. If car ownership is down, it is because so are employment rate among teens, while insurance rates continue ever upward.

It's cute when people ignore hard statistical facts with limited personal anecdotes.


It's even cuter when you nitpick out one part of someone's comments while ignoring others simply so you can bring insult to bear.
 
2012-12-13 12:12:21 PM
200 miles on one charge? How can you get those kind of results without massive government funding???
 
2012-12-13 12:12:32 PM
Ya'll worried about collisions and stuff... there are plenty of motorcycles on the road without airbags, and side protection.. no bumpers etc. Yes, there are accidents, and I've personally know more people who died in a traditional vehicle, than I know of that involved just 2 wheels.
If you are afraid of it.. like a motorcycle.. then don't get one.

200 miles on a charge. That's pretty freakin' good.

/owns a scooter rental in Estes Park. 50cc - 250cc.
//would like to add this to the touring fleet.
 
2012-12-13 12:12:47 PM

tricycleracer: Sticky Hands: maybe it's just me... but where would the average apartment dwelling city slicker charge an electric vehicle?
hell I have to leave my place to just vacuum my car.

The grand idea is to turn every parking meter into a charging station.


That would require a shiatton more meters than a lot of cities have. Hell, I'd have to park three miles from my place to find an existing paid parking spot.
 
2012-12-13 12:12:54 PM
This thing looks exactly like a design I came up with in high school 20 years ago.

Also:
i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-13 12:13:44 PM

Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.


So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
thetalkingmirror.com
 
2012-12-13 12:13:50 PM

900RR: 200 miles on one charge? How can you get those kind of results without massive government funding???


It helps to have an 800 lb curb weight.
 
2012-12-13 12:14:00 PM

ph0rk: starlost: hipster motorcycle dealership

I think that's next to the store that sells pink unicorn feed.


So is the feed pink, or do only pink unicorns eat it?
 
2012-12-13 12:14:43 PM

doczoidberg: I agree. The price of this thing will determine whether it goes anywhere.

20 thousand dollars?
--Nope. People will just buy a normal car.

5 thousand dollars?
--Well, hell. I just might consider it.

That's the trouble with these green technologies. Micro houses, smart cars...they all cost way too much. People would buy this stuff if the price reflected what they are getting upfront.


For $6,000 you can buy a 550cc scooter that gets about 60mpg.
200miles on a single charge. I like it.
 
2012-12-13 12:14:53 PM

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: error 303: Slaves2Darkness: Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?

Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.

For awhile Kia had an actual buy-one-get-one-free promotion, where if you bought a Kia Sorento at full price (something like $18,000) they would give you a Kia Rio for free.

So for $18,000, you could get a new SUV AND a car that got roughly 35 mpg.

If you're referring to the first generation Kia Rio, that's not really true. The car got 26 mpg in mixed driving.

/Used to have one, it was a piece of crap
//I kind of miss it though


Ah. Hm. Thought they were better than that. I've got a second gen and it's definitely a piece of crap that I'll miss when it's gone.
 
2012-12-13 12:17:49 PM

Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]


In many respects. But doesn't it depend on the metric and circumstances? The strongest roll cage in the world can't do anything about the fact that a vehicle weighing much less than another in a car-car impact is the one experiencing the bulk of the acceleration which increases occupant injury. Especially internal ones.
 
2012-12-13 12:19:27 PM

Mose: Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]

In many respects. But doesn't it depend on the metric and circumstances? The strongest roll cage in the world can't do anything about the fact that a vehicle weighing much less than another in a car-car impact is the one experiencing the bulk of the acceleration which increases occupant injury. Especially internal ones.


So let's ban larger vehicles, they don't really serve a purpose and they're safety hazards for those people that wish to be eco-friendly.
 
2012-12-13 12:19:28 PM
Just have the designer drive around Wisconsin in the winter time and still call it a car afterwards.
 
2012-12-13 12:19:53 PM
So it's like a Smart car but less powerful, more expensive, and harder to fill up. That really changes the game.
 
2012-12-13 12:19:59 PM

Mose: I have a hard time taking you seriously when you mention the Tesla, an Audi S5 and the farking Camaro and you're talking about the best sports cars of all time.


That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.
 
2012-12-13 12:20:09 PM

St_Francis_P: In fact, the C-1 isn't really a car at all: It's officially classified as a motorcycle, but CEO Daniel Kim says that the vehicle resists classification.

"It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.


Yeah, this guy could be selling a car that gives anyone who drives it eternal life, I'm still not buying anything from an asshole who talks like that. Sorry.
 
2012-12-13 12:21:13 PM

tricycleracer: Sticky Hands: maybe it's just me... but where would the average apartment dwelling city slicker charge an electric vehicle?
hell I have to leave my place to just vacuum my car.

The grand idea is to turn every parking meter into a charging station.

[static.davidreport.com image 510x499]


Dear god... Imagine how that plays out during a large snow or ice storm or a garbage strike.
 
2012-12-13 12:21:28 PM
Micro cars-whether they're 'green' or not, have traditionally never sold well, not including the Mini. So what the market really needs for a successful EV is a small-not micro-car, that gets a range of like 200 miles and costs $16K or less. Until that happens, I can't really see anyone breaking the rules, but at least these guys are trying.
 
2012-12-13 12:21:46 PM
On the plus side it can use the HOV lanes.
 
2012-12-13 12:22:33 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?


Because your parents have a ton of money, you think it being "green" is super neat, and you don't want to conform and get a car.
 
2012-12-13 12:22:34 PM
I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-13 12:22:58 PM

tricycleracer: Sticky Hands: maybe it's just me... but where would the average apartment dwelling city slicker charge an electric vehicle?
hell I have to leave my place to just vacuum my car.

The grand idea is to turn every parking meter into a charging station.

[static.davidreport.com image 510x499]


Is that farce or something people are actually trying to do...because it really doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. Instead of paying for time you pay for charging.
 
2012-12-13 12:23:13 PM
Does anyone else remember the Volkswagen GX3 concept? That was a 3 wheeled motorcycle/car I would have bought if it came to market.

Truth be told it was more of a "fun nice weather toy" vehicle and less of a "I guess some of us just care more about the environment" vehicle though.
 
2012-12-13 12:23:17 PM

Mose: But doesn't it depend on the metric and circumstances?


It's the same forces at work whether you measure them in inches or centimetres, mate.

;-)
 
2012-12-13 12:24:38 PM
I would prefer something like the Campagna T-Rex... yeah it's $50K... but couldn't it be made less expensive with a battery pack or small turbo diesel or even a non-high performance ice motor? Also won't tip over if the gyro shuts down... two wheels up front, one in the rear... still licensed as a motorcycle... low center of gravity...

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-13 12:25:10 PM

bluefoxicy: Mose: I have a hard time taking you seriously when you mention the Tesla, an Audi S5 and the farking Camaro and you're talking about the best sports cars of all time.

That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.


Girion47: Mose: Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]

In many respects. But doesn't it depend on the metric and circumstances? The strongest roll cage in the world can't do anything about the fact that a vehicle weighing much less than another in a car-car impact is the one experiencing the bulk of the acceleration which increases occupant injury. Especially internal ones.

So let's ban larger vehicles, they don't really serve a purpose and they're safety hazards for those people that wish to be eco-friendly.


Not sure if serious...

*checks profile*

Probably not serious?
Nice WRX. I have an '04 5 door... usually wears a bike rack on its head though.
 
2012-12-13 12:25:19 PM
OMG! IT'S NOT PERFECT FOR ALL EVERY IMAGINABLE SCENARIO!
THEREFORE LETS JUST DO NOTHING!!!1!


/whatever... I like it, and assuming the price tag isn't in the Tesla range of stupid, I'd consider buying one when it hit the market.
 
2012-12-13 12:25:22 PM
You know what I want to see? A workable, modular car design. If it's just you driving yourself, it's a light, driver-only dealie like this thing, or a tiny two-seater. Need to move a few people? Add on a backseat module. Need to haul some furniture? Connect the cargo module and make it a mini-pickup truck. A two-car family wouldn't even need two full cars with a system like that -- just two driving modules. They could connect the cargo or passenger module to whichever car needed it, but most of the time, they could get probably get by with just the driver modules.
 
2012-12-13 12:25:28 PM

doczoidberg: I agree. The price of this thing will determine whether it goes anywhere.

20 thousand dollars?
--Nope. People will just buy a normal car.

5 thousand dollars?
--Well, hell. I just might consider it.

That's the trouble with these green technologies. Micro houses, smart cars...they all cost way too much. People would buy this stuff if the price reflected what they are getting upfront.


I agree, although the more economically sensible greens have a point about how we subsidize non-green tech in many fields.
 
2012-12-13 12:25:37 PM

Mose: Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]

In many respects. But doesn't it depend on the metric and circumstances? The strongest roll cage in the world can't do anything about the fact that a vehicle weighing much less than another in a car-car impact is the one experiencing the bulk of the acceleration which increases occupant injury. Especially internal ones.


THIS. "Regular" cars don't just crumple up in collisions because the greedy ol' manufacturers made them out of cheap, thin materials like so many armchair engineers think...
 
2012-12-13 12:25:52 PM

MindStalker: I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


Hrm, apparently Persu Link , bought the tech from Carver..
 
2012-12-13 12:26:53 PM
p.s. I love all the people who are comparing it to other attempts at new transportation who can't count/tell the difference between 2 wheels/3wheels/4 wheels.
 
2012-12-13 12:27:41 PM

Gordon Bennett: Somewhere, Sir Clive Sinclair is amused by this.

[i.imgur.com image 634x436]


Came here to post that, leaving frustrated.
 
2012-12-13 12:27:48 PM
I'm gonna wait for hover cars.
 
2012-12-13 12:28:22 PM

bluefoxicy: Mose: I have a hard time taking you seriously when you mention the Tesla, an Audi S5 and the farking Camaro and you're talking about the best sports cars of all time.

That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.


Are we still talking about *sports cars* or just "good cars?" And I have no idea what you mean by "grounded shiat boxes with huge engines."
 
2012-12-13 12:29:08 PM

Hector Remarkable: I'm gonna wait for hover cars.


I hear Burt Rutan is working on one.
 
2012-12-13 12:29:26 PM
Sadly, as has been reported in Japan, Canada and Brazil - the future of automobiles is the technology that arrives first with the most ease-of-use, longevity and enduring capabilities of its components:

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

www.diariomotor.com (First production model, comes from the factory equipped with a special SVT-modified engine)

...oh... and if you wanted "How far have they gotten with that stuff?" credibility:

www.blogcdn.com McLaren MP4-12C-BD - The option costs an extra $37,500. They've only made two so far.

/BioDiesel is going to kill electric - and hydrogen isn't that far behind.
 
2012-12-13 12:29:39 PM

schrepjm: Does anyone else remember the Volkswagen GX3 concept? That was a 3 wheeled motorcycle/car I would have bought if it came to market.

Truth be told it was more of a "fun nice weather toy" vehicle and less of a "I guess some of us just care more about the environment" vehicle though.


i1151.photobucket.com
Morgan three-wheeler - available now for those with no fear of death and money to burn.
 
2012-12-13 12:29:40 PM
NmG (No more Gas) Personal Electric Vehicle from Myers Motors:

www.inhabitat.com

www.inhabitat.com

/FTA: "The retro-futuristic vehicle is available in many bright colors for the reasonable price of $36,000."
//Article date: June 2008
 
2012-12-13 12:29:51 PM

flux: You know what I want to see? A workable, modular car design. If it's just you driving yourself, it's a light, driver-only dealie like this thing, or a tiny two-seater. Need to move a few people? Add on a backseat module. Need to haul some furniture? Connect the cargo module and make it a mini-pickup truck. A two-car family wouldn't even need two full cars with a system like that -- just two driving modules. They could connect the cargo or passenger module to whichever car needed it, but most of the time, they could get probably get by with just the driver modules.


I always thought that would be a good idea, the problem comes in where/how do you park the modules.
Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.
 
2012-12-13 12:29:56 PM

santadog: doczoidberg: I agree. The price of this thing will determine whether it goes anywhere.

20 thousand dollars?
--Nope. People will just buy a normal car.

5 thousand dollars?
--Well, hell. I just might consider it.

That's the trouble with these green technologies. Micro houses, smart cars...they all cost way too much. People would buy this stuff if the price reflected what they are getting upfront.

For $6,000 you can buy a 550cc scooter that gets about 60mpg.
200miles on a single charge. I like it.


And the $6k scooter will still be running long after the battery pack in the $18k scooter, which will be long before the latter has saved you $12k in fuel.

I view small light weight electric vehicles as the future of urban commuting, and more specialization of vehicles as they become cheaper and energy becomes more expensive. I prefer the 1-2 seat electric car with a monocoque carbon fiber body, c.f. the cheap process for cold forming it that Gordon Murray has been working on.

However, there is a long, long way to go with battery technology.
 
2012-12-13 12:30:46 PM

Sticky Hands: maybe it's just me... but where would the average apartment dwelling city slicker charge an electric vehicle?
hell I have to leave my place to just vacuum my car.

image.made-in-china.com
 
2012-12-13 12:30:51 PM
What is the deal with these people who make these electric vehicles that almost all of them are the most unappealing things to look at? I often wonder if these people really intend to start a profitable business or are just milking grant money. $20,000 with the hope to lower that to $16,000 when I can buy a gasoline powered vehicle for half that. How much will my power bill go up to charge the vehicle, how long does it take to charge and how long before I have to replace the extremely expensive batteries? There are a lot of us who do not live in a big city with great public transportation and we don't buy a car because we desire one we buy it because we have to. Sure I could live in the city and not need a car, but I would find the $250,000 for 700sqf very wise nor would I enjoy riding the bus with all my groceries and let us not even talk about the 100% increase in crime I would gain would the city is surrounded by the scum of society. Yeah good luck with that buddy. You want to do something great where you can make a lot of money? Figure out a way to make a vehicle with a good appearance that gets 60 or more miles to the gallon and sells for under $5,000 until then pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the whole world is just like your city of San Francisco.
 
2012-12-13 12:31:08 PM

St_Francis_P: That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.


It's a motorcycle so that it doesn't have to conform to any regulations for "cars". And this is fine... we need to be able to have innovations like this without someone claiming it doesn't meet all the standards for "cars", because, well, motorcycles are still legal and this is definitely not worse than one of those.
 
2012-12-13 12:31:37 PM
Renault Twizy please, with full doors and windows.

Link
 
2012-12-13 12:31:55 PM

Glitchwerks: bluefoxicy: And this is nothing near what the Tesla Roadster is. What chimp thinks his little toy car is up to par with one of the best sports cars of all time? The Roadster is up there with the Audi S5 or the Chevrolet Camaro

The Tesla Roadster isn't one of the best sports cars of all time, especially according to Top Gear.

Also, the S5 isn't really a sports car, it's more of a grand tourer.


Not to mention that the Tesla costs more than the S5 and Camaro put together. And from the "sports car" perspective, it stacks up poorly compared to the Lotus Elise/Exige, which it's based on.

/Has seen a Tesla and Exige at the same autocross event.
//One got its azz handed to it by stock Miatas, the other was in contention for fast time of the day.
///600 extra lbs of battery is not a performance enhancing feature
 
2012-12-13 12:33:31 PM

flux: You know what I want to see? A workable, modular car design. If it's just you driving yourself, it's a light, driver-only dealie like this thing, or a tiny two-seater. Need to move a few people? Add on a backseat module. Need to haul some furniture? Connect the cargo module and make it a mini-pickup truck. A two-car family wouldn't even need two full cars with a system like that -- just two driving modules. They could connect the cargo or passenger module to whichever car needed it, but most of the time, they could get probably get by with just the driver modules.


The Hy-wire was headed in that direction. It had the basic design down. But like most promising things that come out of GM, they shiat canned it.
 
2012-12-13 12:34:56 PM
MaudlinMutantMollusk [TotalFark]


Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Having done over $6000.00 damage to a Jeep Wrangler, I was thinking of animal collisions

/deer, specifically
//frikkin deer


Maybe they should rethink their design.
t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-13 12:35:04 PM
Fark that C-1.

Gimme THIS C1!

www.diseno-art.com
 
2012-12-13 12:35:48 PM
I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-13 12:36:47 PM

DaAlien: Glitchwerks: bluefoxicy: And this is nothing near what the Tesla Roadster is. What chimp thinks his little toy car is up to par with one of the best sports cars of all time? The Roadster is up there with the Audi S5 or the Chevrolet Camaro

The Tesla Roadster isn't one of the best sports cars of all time, especially according to Top Gear.

Also, the S5 isn't really a sports car, it's more of a grand tourer.

Not to mention that the Tesla costs more than the S5 and Camaro put together. And from the "sports car" perspective, it stacks up poorly compared to the Lotus Elise/Exige, which it's based on.

/Has seen a Tesla and Exige at the same autocross event.
//One got its azz handed to it by stock Miatas, the other was in contention for fast time of the day.
///600 extra lbs of battery is not a performance enhancing feature


Cross events can be funny. When I used to attend/participate in the early '00's, stock integras and lightly modified neons were handing stock M3's their asses. Driver skill certainly played a roll though, and I suspect the results would be wildly different if they were taken to a more traditional track with faster corners and longer straights.
 
2012-12-13 12:37:00 PM

Profedius: What is the deal with these people who make these electric vehicles that almost all of them are the most unappealing things to look at? I often wonder if these people really intend to start a profitable business or are just milking grant money. $20,000 with the hope to lower that to $16,000 when I can buy a gasoline powered vehicle for half that. How much will my power bill go up to charge the vehicle, how long does it take to charge and how long before I have to replace the extremely expensive batteries? There are a lot of us who do not live in a big city with great public transportation and we don't buy a car because we desire one we buy it because we have to. Sure I could live in the city and not need a car, but I would find the $250,000 for 700sqf very wise nor would I enjoy riding the bus with all my groceries and let us not even talk about the 100% increase in crime I would gain would the city is surrounded by the scum of society. Yeah good luck with that buddy. You want to do something great where you can make a lot of money? Figure out a way to make a vehicle with a good appearance that gets 60 or more miles to the gallon and sells for under $5,000 until then pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the whole world is just like your city of San Francisco.


BRAVO!
 
2012-12-13 12:38:17 PM

omg:

"The 2014 C-1 is estimated to cost as low as $19,900 USD after federal tax incentives."
 
2012-12-13 12:39:38 PM

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


In San Francisco? It's like driving to work on a roller coaster. fark yeah!
 
2012-12-13 12:40:21 PM

Xenomech: omg:
"The 2014 C-1 is estimated to cost as low as $19,900 USD after federal tax incentives."


They state on their website they're trying to get the cost down to 12,500 before incentives once manufacturing ramps up and they can (prospectively) take advantage of economies of scale.
 
2012-12-13 12:41:23 PM

Xenomech: omg:
"The 2014 C-1 is estimated to cost as low as $19,900 USD after federal tax incentives."


wow, that's a Civic
Hell it's almost a Prius....
 
2012-12-13 12:41:56 PM
Close, but no dice.

I'd buy and use it if it was something around $10k.

Hybrid would be necessary. All Electric just not happening.

Or diesel, so I could go Bio Diesel.

Something that small should be able to take 5 gal of fuel and run for two weeks. Most motorbikes I've ridden were 1 gal or 1.5 gal tanks and ran forever.

You get me that purchase price with that economy in a stylish shell and I'll do it.
 
2012-12-13 12:42:58 PM
i1148.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-13 12:43:05 PM

Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]


Something is going to crumple. It's your choice whether it's the vehicle or the occupants.
 
2012-12-13 12:43:09 PM
It would perhaps be a little more innovative if it hadn't been done by Wolseley in England a hundred years ago, and in rather more style too.
www.wolseleyworld.com
 
2012-12-13 12:46:48 PM

flux: You know what I want to see? A workable, modular car design. If it's just you driving yourself, it's a light, driver-only dealie like this thing, or a tiny two-seater. Need to move a few people? Add on a backseat module. Need to haul some furniture? Connect the cargo module and make it a mini-pickup truck. A two-car family wouldn't even need two full cars with a system like that -- just two driving modules. They could connect the cargo or passenger module to whichever car needed it, but most of the time, they could get probably get by with just the driver modules.


There's been ideas for this. The ones I like would use a skateboard type platform that has the chassis with batteries and motors and everything. Then a body gets added to make it whatever type of box someone wants. You could make it modular beyond that and give owners options to make it different things.

The problems I see is that a chassis setup to haul things like a small truck might not be what you'd want most of the time. And it would be nice to shorten and narrow the chassis for when it's just the driver. Also, if the laws change to where full drive by wire is allowed it would make everything plug and play. But, as for now there has to be a mechanical link for steering and I think brakes.

It will take someone actually upsetting the dynamic and forcing the car makers to build different cars. They have the ability and the technology, just no desire or good enough reason. But, it's coming. Just don't know when.
 
2012-12-13 12:46:59 PM
If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-13 12:48:04 PM

MindStalker: I always thought that would be a good idea, the problem comes in where/how do you park the modules.
Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.


If you drive your kids to work every day, then yeah, it would be most practical to leave the passenger module attached all the time (which, I imagine, is effectively what you have now, if you drive a car with a backseat). But imagine a family whose children take the bus: if each parent drives to work, they only need the passenger module when the family is traveling together, maybe a night a week plus weekends. If it's done right, all modules could fit in a one-car garage. Or a couple with no kids who occasionally need to move large items. It might not be a great idea for every single person, but it would be for many.
 
2012-12-13 12:48:14 PM
That doesn't look like it has enough Big Gulp cupholders for Real Americans.

\Plus, how am I going to get Kylie & Brianna to their soccer game in a blizzard without 4WD?
\\I'm sticking with teh Canyonero...
 
2012-12-13 12:50:38 PM

whconner4: St_Francis_P: In fact, the C-1 isn't really a car at all: It's officially classified as a motorcycle, but CEO Daniel Kim says that the vehicle resists classification.

"It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.

This guy needs a serious punch in the balls.



You'd like to disrupt his ball space, with extreme prejudice?
 
2012-12-13 12:51:32 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
/ vroom!
 
2012-12-13 12:53:33 PM
ahem

www.leosgarage.com
 
2012-12-13 12:53:48 PM
Mattel has been selling these for years.
www.toymania.com
 
2012-12-13 12:55:01 PM

jonny_q: St_Francis_P: That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.

It's a motorcycle so that it doesn't have to conform to any regulations for "cars". And this is fine... we need to be able to have innovations like this without someone claiming it doesn't meet all the standards for "cars", because, well, motorcycles are still legal and this is definitely not worse than one of those.


I understand why getting it certified as a motorcycle is an advantage from a manufacturing perspective, but it's a disaster from a marketing perspective. I have a driver's license. Everybody I know has a driver's license. I know exactly one person with a motorcycle license, and that's the retired guy across the street with the vanity Harley that he rides to go nowhere in particular on fine days when his wife shoos him out of the house.

Yes, I know, "the plural of anecdote yadayadayada". But realistically, if these things are supposed to appeal to the mass of drivers because they handle like a car, the first step to ownership cannot possibly be to require somebody to get a motorcycle license. It's just nonsensical.

Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.
 
2012-12-13 12:56:25 PM
FTFA "It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

Translation: We're going to go bankrupt inside of a year.
 
2012-12-13 12:59:39 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Having done over $6000.00 damage to a Jeep Wrangler, I was thinking of animal collisions

/deer, specifically
//frikkin deer


Holy Flyin' Mackerel; What speed were you traveling at? My TJ would need a lot of parts to make up $6K worth of accident...
 
2012-12-13 01:03:16 PM
I doubt people will be driving cross-country in this thing, so the collision-with-a-moose scenario doesn't worry me. And this is clearly NOT for breeders, either. It's for "urbans" who don't want a full blown car, of which there are a growing number. And it may have commercial applications as well--I wonder if courier services or businesses that deliver will be interested in a vehicle that is covered from the elements, yet subject to motorcycle rules instead of car rules. It should have a greater choice of places to park when dropping off a pizza than a car would. (Don't delivery services outside of the US already make heavy use of motor scooters?) I just wonder if a 200 mile range is going to be enough, or what the consequences might be of charging for a few minutes at a time between orders.
 
2012-12-13 01:04:08 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

I think the T-Rex would be more fun, but I just don't see $50k in one of these. I saw them built on How It's Made and they're pretty much coach-built. If you had the demand you could scale up production with stamped metal frames instead of the tubular steel hand welding to cut costs.
 
2012-12-13 01:04:42 PM

czetie:

Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.


Oddly enough here in a California as soon as a motorcycle has a sidecar on it, or it's classified as a 'trike'... (anything with three wheels) you can drive it just fine on a standard class C license, no special endorsement or training required.

Why that loophole exists, I have no idea... Both trikes and motorcycles with sidecars are inherently harder to pilot in a safe manner than a standard motorcycle.
 
2012-12-13 01:04:44 PM

MindStalker: I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


The Carver was a pretty cool concept, but certainly showed the market for motorcycles-with-shells is limited. The Carver was still a conventional engine. Maybe these guys will have better luck with the electric-powered idea. Costs about half the price of a Nissan Leaf, which is a far more conventional-looking and driving vehicle. Though it does have better range. It will come down to pricing as to whether or not these things have a chance.
 
2012-12-13 01:06:55 PM

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


It's the same arrangement as carrying a woman on your back on a motorcycle.
 
2012-12-13 01:07:17 PM
Im glad the top gear pics made an appearance.
 
2012-12-13 01:09:04 PM

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-13 01:10:58 PM

MindStalker: I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


I came here to say that, though I'm disappointed that the Carver One turned out to be vapor ware.
 
2012-12-13 01:11:41 PM

czetie: Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.


In Georgia you can take your Motor Cycle test on a trike, so it is a painless process you just need to take the MC written test, get your permit for 60 days then take your driving test, which is nothing more than riding in a circle and doing a panic stop.
 
2012-12-13 01:12:18 PM
Surprised no one's mentioned the Arcimoto yet. (Looks much cooler than the linked product.)
 
2012-12-13 01:12:45 PM

dofus: RTOGUY: Can it handle a 3' snowdrift?

A FWD Jeep can't handle a 3' drift unless the driver *really* knows what he/she is doing.


Say's the guy living in Florida. Please stay out of Colorado in the winter months.
 
2012-12-13 01:13:01 PM

MindStalker: Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.


The easy solution is to get your kid a Trek Bicycle and make them bike to school, but then one day you look for

www.thestranger.com

but all you can find is

image.shutterstock.com

and you drive around the parking lot for 40 hours looking for your kid.
 
2012-12-13 01:13:12 PM
www.vh1.com

Laughs (silently) at your design
 
2012-12-13 01:15:45 PM
socialpsychologyeye.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-13 01:20:45 PM
I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.
 
2012-12-13 01:22:03 PM

moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.


Or a cool-looking pizza cutter?

www.toxel.com

/[stoplikingwhatidontlike.jpg]
 
2012-12-13 01:22:05 PM

RTOGUY: Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.


And how does your Jeep Wrangler or AWD SUV handle three feet of snow. Answer: it doesn't, until it's plowed. The problem with deep snow is seldom traction, overwhelmingly ground clearance.
 
2012-12-13 01:25:02 PM

ph0rk: I'm not sure I really see the appeal over a regular motorcycle.


Retaining your internal organs when it inevitably crashes.
 
2012-12-13 01:26:27 PM
There are two things wrong with that car and they're with every electric car for that matter:

1. I can only afford to own one car.
2. I need to be able to use that car to visit my parents 400 miles away..


A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles. Unless someone invents a train service where i can park my car on a train to move longer distances, i'll never own a pure electric car unless it can go farther than 400 miles on 1 charge. The only other way an electric car can attact me is if i can trade the battery at a gas station for a charged battery. It's kind of like how they switched the reactor core on the ship in Fifth Element. When i can do that to my electric car you can get me into an electric car.
 
2012-12-13 01:26:35 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Great now sell that bad boy for around $5000, that would really disrupt the market.


nothing about this at any price over 3.5 grand will do anything to anybody.
 
2012-12-13 01:28:02 PM
A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.
 
2012-12-13 01:29:02 PM

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


Is that illustration serious? The rear passenger has to wrap his legs around the front seat? So it's just as cramped as being on a motorcycle, but without the actual skin contact. Got it.
 
2012-12-13 01:29:17 PM

santadog: Ya'll worried about collisions and stuff... there are plenty of motorcycles on the road without airbags, and side protection.. no bumpers etc. Yes, there are accidents, and I've personally know more people who died in a traditional vehicle, than I know of that involved just 2 wheels.
If you are afraid of it.. like a motorcycle.. then don't get one.

200 miles on a charge. That's pretty freakin' good.

/owns a scooter rental in Estes Park. 50cc - 250cc.
//would like to add this to the touring fleet.


You're being statistically mendacious; of course you would know more people who've died in conventional vehicles, there are overwhelmingly more of those on the road.

Also, you have a dog in this fight: you're profiting from renting 2-wheel transportation.

But Estes Park is nice, we enjoyed it.

/That is all.
 
2012-12-13 01:30:16 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.



Nope crumple zones make a huge difference.
 
2012-12-13 01:33:01 PM

liam76: Because your parents have a ton of money, you think it being "green" is super neat, and you don't want to conform and get a car.


I just signed up for "Green" energy. I could have gotten wind energy for cheaper than my current price, but instead I got a wind/solar/hydro/nuclear/anything-that-doesn't-belche-shiat-into-the-ai r plan that buys whatever the cheapest non-crud-spewing tech is. If someone installs a big geothermal plant tomorrow and the power is 4.5c/kWh, they'll start buying 4.5c/kWh power; if they can buy enough to cover all their customers, their power prices come down. If not, the market competes, more plants are built because demand is high, and THEN their power prices come down.

It's going to cost me about $4/mo more. Well, in the summer it might cost me $6/mo less, since electricity is more expensive in the summer from my normal provider. It'll cost me more than the conventional option from another supplier at 7.99c (my current rate is 8.96c/kWh, with fixed option wind available from one supplier at 8.99c, market variable option at 9.90c, and market variable option from a third supplier at 9.94c that takes any renewable source; in the summer, my electric costs are at 10.5c/kWh, but daytime prices are more like 13c/kWh with night time prices around 9c/kWh to tax people for using their AC when the sun is out).

For the additional $4 (or, maybe, $8 above what I could get at the absolute cheapest), I shift $1000/year from coal and oil demand to pure clean demand.

Now, renewable gas, that's nuts. 58 cents/therm or I can buy offset at 72 cents/therm, whereby they buy enough carbon offsets to match the gas I use (i.e. they pay a subsidy on a unit of clean power equal to the amount of gas I burn). In general I use 1-2 therms for the stove and 9 therms to maintain a temperature of 62 degrees. My thermostat is designated for 73 degrees in the morning (5:15-8:00), 72 in the evening (4:15-10:00), and 62F for the remainder, with 72 during the day on weekends. Curtains actually make a difference in my gas usage. That's just for the winter, though.

Okay so again $3/month. It's not a lot of gas.
 
2012-12-13 01:33:39 PM
Cute, in a "hello kitty" sort of way. Might have a market for mall shoppers or cycling on the beach if it rains. For daily actual traffic? Yeah, NO. Your insurance company should have a half million dollar deductable for the travesty your hipster thinking ass is about to become.
 
2012-12-13 01:35:03 PM

moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.


I have a cool looking hammer. It also happens to pound nails or pull them up and rip holes in drywall. And it has a metal handle unlike my old non-cool looking hammer which had a wooden one and broke. It's almost as if the cool one is more functional in addition to being cooler! Oh wait, it's exactly like that.
 
2012-12-13 01:36:26 PM

Tom_Slick: czetie: Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.

In Georgia you can take your Motor Cycle test on a trike, so it is a painless process you just need to take the MC written test, get your permit for 60 days then take your driving test, which is nothing more than riding in a circle and doing a panic stop.


So apart from taking a written test, waiting 60 days, then taking a test on a borrowed/rented trike, you can pretty much sign and drive, just like a real car? That sounds painless.

Wait, no it doesn't.

/I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".
 
2012-12-13 01:37:40 PM

Tom_Slick: Huck And Molly Ziegler: A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.


Nope crumple zones make a huge difference.


Yeah I think I'll go with the foot injury vs the head, neck, body cavity, and both legs.
 
2012-12-13 01:38:01 PM
I've dreamed of one of those kinds of cars FOREBBAH! I want one!
 
2012-12-13 01:39:52 PM

moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.


Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's also nice looking. But the balance and the quality of manufacture--the fact that it's full steel tang with either a synthetic or a polished hard leather wrapped handle--makes all the difference. Heads don't fall off of solid chunks of forged high-quality steel. Full tang handles don't break. Balanced tools--hammers, knives, swords, drills--go exactly where you put them and inflict less fatigue.

I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.
 
2012-12-13 01:42:25 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?

Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.


Better gas mileage than an electric car??? I know, I know, who has time to actually read the article?
 
2012-12-13 01:43:49 PM
http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/goldman-sachs-progress/archive/ 2012/12/lit-motors-builds-a-car-that-breaks-the-rules/265768/ ?oref=goldman-ob

i wonder if this positive story is being pushed by an investor.
 
2012-12-13 01:44:34 PM

moike: lay long lurid darkies


I just accomplished that not even 10 minutes ago. Absolutely putrid.
 
2012-12-13 01:46:46 PM

theresnothinglft: A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles.


You want to know what the future of electric cars is going to be, assuming the gasoline industry doesn't suppress it indefinitely? Highways that charge your car. Some electric cars are now able to receive power wirelessly from a pad that sits below the car without having to plug in to the wall. All roads need regular maintenance, obviously, so gradually, as they are torn up and repaved, we can lay charging strips at the center of each lane of a highway, or even just two lanes of each highway.

What this means: The effective range of the car only applies when you are on local roads -- as long as you stay on the highway, the range of your vehicle is indefinite. This would make electric cars the optimum choice for nearly everyone. It might mean tolls on highways for electric cars, but it would also mean pretty much never having to go out of your way to charge your vehicle.
 
2012-12-13 01:47:05 PM

moike: If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x479]


That second person looks nowhere near comfortable. Plus when skid marks in your underwear are caused by actual skid marks on the ground, that vehicle doesn't seem like a viable option.
 
2012-12-13 01:47:26 PM

bluefoxicy: MindStalker: Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.

The easy solution is to get your kid a Trek Bicycle and make them bike to school, but then one day you look for [movin' 500 donuts a day but barely squeakin' by] but all you can find is [teenager running a sprint] and you drive around the parking lot for 40 hours looking for your kid.


Schmitty?
 
2012-12-13 01:48:07 PM

mainsail: My TJ would need a lot of parts to make up $6K worth of accident...


These days you can easily rack up thousands of dollars in parts by denting a fender and cracking a proprietary headlight assembly that has no aftermarket replacement.
 
2012-12-13 01:49:32 PM

this_is_ace: Surprised no one's mentioned the Arcimoto yet. (Looks much cooler than the linked product.)


www.arcimoto.com

Yeah, for 18k, I'm buying one of those instead, if they ever actually get around to shipping.

/How much for Stana to deliver it personally?
 
2012-12-13 01:49:52 PM

Tom_Slick: Huck And Molly Ziegler: A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.

Nope crumple zones make a huge difference.


And everything else, I see. The 1959--no seat belt, no air bag, one monolithic bench seat. Test dummy gets rocketed into the ceiling, arms flailing wildly, because the bench seat breaks free and springs around.
The modern: bucket seat, three point harness, and air bag. Test dummy stays in the seat and eats warm canvas, but that's about it.
 
2012-12-13 01:50:11 PM
OK, flame away at this, but I think there's are counters to the points you guys are making here:

1. It's unsafe.

So are motorcycles and scooters, really, but people ride those and that's who these are marketed towards. If you're that concerned about safety, you're not going to buy a motorcycle or scooter, either, so it's not marketed towards you.

I'll grant you that you probably aren't considering something like this if you were looking into a motorcycle because part of owning a motorcycle is the machismo of it, even a crotch rocket. This isn't the most macho vehicle. But a lot of the scooter owners I know, particularly female ones, would love to have a little more safety, something that's easier to steer, the ability to carry more than a small bag of groceries and the convenience of not having to ruin their hair with a helmet all the time. Bonus on the fully-electric part.

Looked at that way, and looking at how many people have embraced scooters, it's just an improvement on that idea. Only disadvantage is it takes a little more space than a scooter. So be it.

2. It won't drive well in bad weather.

Again, neither does a motorcycle or a scooter. The scooter owners I know have a reasonable car they drive in those conditions. They save so much in the months they use the scooter that it pays off in the end.

3. It costs too much.

Again, it's what you save down the line, plus, the cost will go down. The early adopters will have to pay, but it will get better if there are early adopters. One of these ideas will eventually catch on, so there will be.

4. It looks dorky.

This is the only thing I can't counter you on. But I will say this: As a compact car driver (just a good ol' all-American Chevy Cobalt), I can't tell you how annoying it is to not be able to see around curb-parked SUVs when trying to pull onto streets, how slowly they accelerate to speed on the freeway, when they can't/won't see you or make room for you trying to change lanes, etc. If there's one part of American driving culture I'd like to change, it would be our me-first fascination with the SUV. For what? So we can have more space to ourselves? Because bigger "looks cooler"?

How about this foreign concept for Americans: THINK ABOUT OTHERS FOR ONCE. That SUV that's great for you is annoying for a lot of other people.

So yeah, on the looks part, no small car that isn't a sports car is going to look cool to us. But, at some point, that's something we should maybe think about changing. I know practical is uncool to us, but that's also why we're knee-deep in a lengthy recession and most Americans are in a ridiculous amount of debt. So yeah, want to fix that? Maybe think about being a little uncool but saving some money.
 
2012-12-13 01:51:33 PM
If the price was right, I'd consider it. 200 miles is acceptable for what it is - a motorcycle that you can drive comfortably in the rain. My only real concern is how quickly does it accelerate? Not expecting the torque of a Ducati, but I'd rather not be rear ended while I putter up to highway speeds.
 
2012-12-13 01:52:39 PM

bluefoxicy: moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's also nice looking. But the balance and the quality of manufacture--the fact that it's full steel tang with either a synthetic or a polished hard leather wrapped handle--makes all the difference. Heads don't fall off of solid chunks of forged high-quality steel. Full tang handles don't break. Balanced tools--hammers, knives, swords, drills--go exactly where you put them and inflict less fatigue.

I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.



www.tool-net.co.uk
Looks like a hammer, and you extol the fact that it actually works better. That's probably why you bought it.

I mean like this:
pylones-usa.com 
This hammer probably sucks.
 
2012-12-13 01:53:51 PM

santadog: For $6,000 you can buy a 550cc scooter that gets about 60mpg.
200miles on a single charge. I like it.


The guy interviewed in the article hinted that for urban hipsters who care more about gadgets than cars, the trick is to come up with a vehicle that you can sell as another cute gadget. Hence the boom in scooters.
 
2012-12-13 01:55:48 PM

czetie: So apart from taking a written test, waiting 60 days, then taking a test on a borrowed/rented trike, you can pretty much sign and drive, just like a real car? That sounds like a good way to get more stupid, inexperienced drivers on the road to pose a danger to themselves and others.


When I took my driver's test for my car, I had an automatic transmission and made three right turns in a parking lot and parallel parked once. I failed the parallel parking part. The parking lot was about 40 feet across. They still gave me a license, it took 5 minutes.

I drive a manual transmission now, taught myself by driving it home after I bought it.

I actually know how to drive. I notice excess contention and review things I did wrong, like failing to check for a passing car, not observing a particular hazard I'd never regarded before, making a maneuver without thinking about what was out of sight (i.e. steering around a stopped car without considering that I can't see the door opening on the car parked ahead of it), failing to yield to another driver in a situation where I should... stupid crap happens, I take the time to notice, analyze, and correct these behaviors. I've developed skills for handling poor situations--weather, driving conditions, pedestrian behavior, other drivers' misbehavior, and so on. I maintain my car properly.

I still say they should have put me and everyone else on the road through a full defensive driving course, advanced driving course (skid control, hazard assessment, vehicle dynamics, braking techniques, collision avoidance techniques), and vehicle maintenance course. I know it would have cost a lot more, and I wouldn't have gotten a car until a year or three later. I don't care. A full 1 hour road test would be good too, should be standard.

When I started driving, I drove worse. Hell, I drove worse last year. I got better. I'll get better.

Meanwhile I encounter stupid drivers who don't yield when I signal to come over. I encounter people who actually speed up. I've performed a lane toss at 70mph (traffic flow) because some idiot in what should be my blind spot (my mirrors are adjusted to eliminate blind spots completely) decided to change lanes into my passenger side rear door... he almost did it too, one quick check in my rear view mirror and i figured I had just enough room, signaled and pulled the car immediately into the next lane so fast I left skid marks behind. Signalling was probably pointless.

Boston left hand turns. People who pull directly in front of you and stop on roads with speed limits at 40-50mph, at speed, giving you 40 feet to stop or else you get to stick your engine in their lap. People who drive around on bald tires. People whose brakes fail--you hear the SCREEE SCREEE SCREE of brake shoes that should have been changed 6 months ago, then you see them sail through stop lights and into parked cars.

Why are these people licensed?

One day I need to get some money and take a driving day at Skip Barber's school on the combined course. I can get a refresher with 8 hours of skidpan practice here (on Fedex's massive fleet parking lot) for $300, I should do that every fall before the winter freeze.
 
2012-12-13 01:56:37 PM

bluefoxicy: moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's also nice looking. But the balance and the quality of manufacture--the fact that it's full steel tang with either a synthetic or a polished hard leather wrapped handle--makes all the difference. Heads don't fall off of solid chunks of forged high-quality steel. Full tang handles don't break. Balanced tools--hammers, knives, swords, drills--go exactly where you put them and inflict less fatigue.

I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.


LOL
 
2012-12-13 01:57:46 PM
Five pages of fools decrying how unsafe it is. The only possible time this vehicle would be less safe than anything else on the market is if a Wily Coyote weight fell directly on top of it while it was in a stuck, prone position, or if it got smashed between vehicle without a way to move in. The damn thing is build to be knocked around. The size and curvature is built to physically be more resistant to crumpling than any vehicle with a generally flat side ala everything on the market. 
No, Stupid McStupid and Oldy McDold will have an awful time with it because it require actual attention and safe habits to use it properly.

WTF is wrong with today. Fark is at it's most derpiest I have ever seen.
 
2012-12-13 01:57:49 PM

Jument: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Well, deathtrap is a bit extreme. It's no more a deathtrap than a motorcycle or a scooter, at first glance. The "safety of a car" quote is mind boggling. That just seems unpossible.


The biggest safety advantage of a motorcycle is visibility and awareness. I sit higher on my motorcycle than my pickup truck, and have pretty much 360 awareness at any point in time with zero blind spots.

This... thing, is a motorcycle with blind spots. It's ridiculously unsafe. I also don't understand why he has a motorcycle tire on the front if he's got a gyro that prevents it from leaning over. That old June 1936 magazine ad makes way more sense. You want to corner like a motorcycle at high speeds, and have 4 wheels at slow speeds for stability.
 
2012-12-13 02:00:09 PM

bluefoxicy: That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.


In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. While you could certainly make a case for past Lamborghini cars like the Diablo and Countach as being poorly built and overpowered, the Aventador and Gallardo are pound for pound some of the best cars in existence. Same with Ferrari and it's 458, 599 GTO, etc.

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

/I've seen this bitter hatred towards European performance cars before.
 
2012-12-13 02:01:12 PM

czetie: /I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".


To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.
 
2012-12-13 02:02:14 PM
i definitely want one if it meets these 3 requirements:
1. it needs to be as safe or almost as safe as a standard compact car
2. it needs to handle reasonably well and not be prone to tipping
3. it needs to cost $10,000 or less

but i doubt it will meet all (or any) of those requirements. :(
 
2012-12-13 02:02:16 PM
I just have to say my estwing brick hammer is the shat.
 
2012-12-13 02:03:34 PM

moothemagiccow: www.tool-net.co.uk
Looks like a hammer, and you extol the fact that it actually works better. That's probably why you bought it.

I mean like this:
pylones-usa.com
This hammer probably sucks.


ecx.images-amazon.com

Yeah pretty much. $30

www.etsy.com 

Had a carpenter friend buy one of these types, wood handle pushed through the head and glued in place. He broke it in the first 10 minutes.

That pink thing is a goofy ass hammer, wtf?
 
2012-12-13 02:05:10 PM

bluefoxicy: I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.


Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are quite expensive to maintain in the U.S.
 
2012-12-13 02:05:43 PM

flux: theresnothinglft: A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles.

You want to know what the future of electric cars is going to be, assuming the gasoline industry doesn't suppress it indefinitely? Highways that charge your car. Some electric cars are now able to receive power wirelessly from a pad that sits below the car without having to plug in to the wall. All roads need regular maintenance, obviously, so gradually, as they are torn up and repaved, we can lay charging strips at the center of each lane of a highway, or even just two lanes of each highway.

What this means: The effective range of the car only applies when you are on local roads -- as long as you stay on the highway, the range of your vehicle is indefinite. This would make electric cars the optimum choice for nearly everyone. It might mean tolls on highways for electric cars, but it would also mean pretty much never having to go out of your way to charge your vehicle.


When this finally gets implemented it will be AWESOME. That is assuming the petrol industry doesn't stonewall it.
 
2012-12-13 02:09:50 PM

Glitchwerks: In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. [...]

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.


So, they're basically like the Saturn V? "Amazing feat of engineering" in that it ... gets into space; but it's expensive as hell, and by the time it gets up there 80% of the body is destroyed, a little capsule comes back and you build a whole new one?

Face it, they built a high-performance car--a car with a big engine and decent suspension--but you need to pay as much every year to keep it running as you would to just buy a 2005 Pontiac GTO which, if you didn't maintain it, would also perform extremely well and last more than a year anyway.

It's a crap car. It's shiny, it has a big engine, it goes vroom vroom and moves very fast, and it breaks down faster than the shiattiest GM car you can find. While you dodge potholes like landmines, Porsche owners are just yawning and rolling over them. Ferrari is to cars like DIVX is to video cassette tapes.
 
2012-12-13 02:12:22 PM

Arkanaut: It's a tricycle.


It has two wheels. That's some trike!

litmotors.com
 
2012-12-13 02:13:42 PM

bluefoxicy: Ferrari is to cars like DIVX is to video cassette tapes.


What's wrong with DIVX?
 
2012-12-13 02:17:36 PM
Look at how this thing leans and tell me that a car owner will see it as a car and not a motorcycle

litmotors.com 

Also: Not sure you can pass the motorcycle driving test in that thing. Image doing the 'sharp turn at low speed' test! sure, it can do low speeds, but with that wheelbase you'd be lucky to stay inside the guidelines.
 
2012-12-13 02:18:59 PM

bluefoxicy: Face it, they built a high-performance car--a car with a big engine and decent suspension--but you need to pay as much every year to keep it running as you would to just buy a 2005 Pontiac GTO which, if you didn't maintain it, would also perform extremely well and last more than a year anyway.


High performance cars have high maintenance costs. So does Porsche although admittedly Porsche is considered "the everyday, livable" super car.

By the way, a Pontiac GTO isn't going to perform anywhere near a 458 or Aventador. Why compare them?

bluefoxicy: While you dodge potholes like landmines, Porsche owners are just yawning and rolling over them. Ferrari is to cars like DIVX is to video cassette tapes.


Arguing over Porsche and Ferrari is pointless. I, personally, like both brands. Both continually push the envelopes for performance and engineering, in motorsport and in road cars.

Throwing poo at Ferrari because they are expensive just seems to be missing the point entirely.
 
2012-12-13 02:21:04 PM

Glitchwerks: Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are quite expensive to maintain in the U.S.


You mean they cost more to maintain than just outright buying a new Volkswagen every year? Because I know someone who had an Audi S5 for 13 years and didn't sink more than a grand into it each year. When he got it, it was already old--he paid $1000 for it and got it running well in another $500 (he fixed a door that didn't close properly and a window that didn't roll up, and ran new brake lines).

An S5 costs at most $2000/year to maintain, about what a Mazda 3S might cost if driven 15k/year. A Ferrari costs like 6 years of S5 per year.
 
2012-12-13 02:22:07 PM

impaler: bluefoxicy: Ferrari is to cars like DIVX is to video cassette tapes.

What's wrong with DIVX?


You can watch a DIVX disc 5 times and then it's wore out.
 
2012-12-13 02:25:23 PM
This type of "enclosed motorcycle" has been tried before. Almost nobody buys them, because they aren't practical as the only car in a household (you can't go grocery shopping in them, for instance), yet cost just as much as an actual car (especially slightly used ones). If you could sell this for eight grand, maybe, as a second, communting vehicle. But for sixteen? Nope.
 
Ral
2012-12-13 02:26:48 PM

RTOGUY: Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.


The company's in San Francisco. The locals' idea of "all weather" means "it rains sometimes, so this thing will keep you dry and keep the mud off you".
 
2012-12-13 02:27:10 PM
How the hell am I gonna fit a case of soda in there?

Where can I put groceries, that thing is NOT practical by any stretch
 
2012-12-13 02:27:15 PM
I still want one of these.

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-13 02:29:23 PM
Calm down people. There's no law that says you have to buy one. I imagine there being similar hate threads years ago when the Prius was announced. It's a concept vehicle, market forces will dictate whether it survives, not whether farkers think it's stupid/expensive/crash worthy
 
2012-12-13 02:32:09 PM

bluefoxicy: You can watch a DIVX disc 5 times and then it's wore out.


The discs didn't wear out. You were provided a limited number of views with disc you purchased. DIVX now is a video codec.

bluefoxicy: An S5 costs at most $2000/year to maintain, about what a Mazda 3S might cost if driven 15k/year. A Ferrari costs like 6 years of S5 per year.


And your point is? Ferrari is a far more exhilarating car to drive and will easily whoop an S5.

Your arguments are pointless. You don't buy an Ariel Atom to drive the kids to school. You drive it to spank the pants off everything else on track days. You don't buy a 458 to commute to work. You drive it because it's an incredibly well performing car with an engine cranking out better music than Vivaldi right behind your ears.

Fighting over Ferrari and Porsche is like fighting over Olivia Wilde and Kate Upton. What's the farking point?
 
2012-12-13 02:46:55 PM

TheGreatGazoo: For $10,000 I'd seriously look at one. For $20,000 not so much.

For $20,000 you can have a Scion IQ, Fiat 500, or smart car + gas for several years.


for less than 20k you could have a civic with 4 doors a trunk and 39mpg... so just as good or better. also would survive a hellacious accident that that thing wouldnt.

speaking from experience on that last bit.
 
2012-12-13 02:48:55 PM

WhyteRaven74: ahem

[www.leosgarage.com image 640x480]


the Pulse Litestar is a gas powered vehicle classified as a "Motorcycle"
 
2012-12-13 02:49:39 PM

Glitchwerks: bluefoxicy: You can watch a DIVX disc 5 times and then it's wore out.

The discs didn't wear out. You were provided a limited number of views with disc you purchased. DIVX now is a video codec.

bluefoxicy: An S5 costs at most $2000/year to maintain, about what a Mazda 3S might cost if driven 15k/year. A Ferrari costs like 6 years of S5 per year.

And your point is? Ferrari is a far more exhilarating car to drive and will easily whoop an S5.

Your arguments are pointless. You don't buy an Ariel Atom to drive the kids to school. You drive it to spank the pants off everything else on track days. You don't buy a 458 to commute to work. You drive it because it's an incredibly well performing car with an engine cranking out better music than Vivaldi right behind your ears.

Fighting over Ferrari and Porsche is like fighting over Olivia Wilde and Kate Upton. What's the farking point?


Also, not sure where his friend got an S5 that he's had for 13 years given the fact that they were introduced in 2007.
 
Ral
2012-12-13 02:53:59 PM

bluefoxicy: moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.


It's "Estwing", and I also love my Estwing hammer. Easily worth the extra money even for infrequent use. A properly weighted, well-balanced hammer takes a lot of the work out of it for you.
 
2012-12-13 02:55:42 PM

WhyteRaven74: ahem

[www.leosgarage.com image 640x480]


was waiting to get off of work just to post a pic of the pulse.. Wanted one of those like all get out when I was a kid.

theresnothinglft: There are two things wrong with that car and they're with every electric car for that matter:

1. I can only afford to own one car.
2. I need to be able to use that car to visit my parents 400 miles away..


A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles. Unless someone invents a train service where i can park my car on a train to move longer distances, i'll never own a pure electric car unless it can go farther than 400 miles on 1 charge. The only other way an electric car can attact me is if i can trade the battery at a gas station for a charged battery. It's kind of like how they switched the reactor core on the ship in Fifth Element. When i can do that to my electric car you can get me into an electric car.


You meen like the Amtrak Auto train? 

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-13 02:58:12 PM

HatMadeOfAss: moike: If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x479]

That second person looks nowhere near comfortable. Plus when skid marks in your underwear are caused by actual skid marks on the ground, that vehicle doesn't seem like a viable option.


I could give a crap if the organic traction control system is 'comfortable'... it just better be doing it's damn job.

As to the second part, we make them wear velcro-attached pucks on their asses just for that purpose.

www.badcatracing.com
 
2012-12-13 02:58:12 PM

Disgruntled Dave: How the hell am I gonna fit a case of soda in there?

Where can I put groceries, that thing is NOT practical by any stretch


Urban market, man. Urban. They're trying to sell them to people who live in cities. I've lived in cities my entire adult life; 90% of my grocery shopping is on foot or by bike. People in cities live near grocery stores, so we buy food as we need it, not all in one giant weekend trip that takes the entire trunk of the car.
 
2012-12-13 03:00:59 PM

bluefoxicy:
Had a carpenter friend buy one of these types, wood handle pushed through the head and glued in place. He broke it in the first 10 minutes.


The hammer in that picture is likely 3 decades old and has been used for its intended purpose (hammering and pulling nails) for most of that time. If your carpenter friend really broke one like that in 10 minutes, he was using it wrong. The hammer he bought was probably from the dollar store.

There is nothing wrong quality wooden handled tools, and many carpenters prefer them.
 
2012-12-13 03:01:12 PM

Glitchwerks: bluefoxicy: That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.

In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. While you could certainly make a case for past Lamborghini cars like the Diablo and Countach as being poorly built and overpowered, the Aventador and Gallardo are pound for pound some of the best cars in existence. Same with Ferrari and it's 458, 599 GTO, etc.

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

/I've seen this bitter hatred towards European performance cars before.


There are modern, less expnesive approaches to supercar construction too .... a lot of the cars above involve paying extra for the badge, except for the McLaren.

lh5.googleusercontent.com

And yes, it meets the cut on performance if not on price ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_test_track_Power_Lap_T im es

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_l ap _times#Bridge_to_gantry
 
2012-12-13 03:05:50 PM

Pfighting Polish: How about this foreign concept for Americans: THINK ABOUT OTHERS FOR ONCE. ...


You were making some great points until you got to this. Have you ever been to other countries? People are about as selfish as their options. The fact that you think otherwise and that you believe in American Exceptionalism tends to make people doubt your other arguments. Which were actually pretty good.
 
2012-12-13 03:08:15 PM

Slaves2Darkness:
Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?

Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.


Pick your dealership, you could get a Civic SI for less. I can get 35MPG with it, and it kicks ass for a little four banger, lots of fun to drive.
 
2012-12-13 03:08:25 PM

flux: theresnothinglft: A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles.

You want to know what the future of electric cars is going to be, assuming the gasoline industry doesn't suppress it indefinitely? Highways that charge your car. Some electric cars are now able to receive power wirelessly from a pad that sits below the car without having to plug in to the wall. All roads need regular maintenance, obviously, so gradually, as they are torn up and repaved, we can lay charging strips at the center of each lane of a highway, or even just two lanes of each highway.

What this means: The effective range of the car only applies when you are on local roads -- as long as you stay on the highway, the range of your vehicle is indefinite. This would make electric cars the optimum choice for nearly everyone. It might mean tolls on highways for electric cars, but it would also mean pretty much never having to go out of your way to charge your vehicle.


This would be awesome. I'd want some lead-proofing of some sort on the underside of the car, but this would be a really ideal scenario. To save costs, you could even roll it out gradually, have one lane be the "recharge" lane.
 
2012-12-13 03:10:54 PM

ParaHandy: There are modern, less expnesive approaches to supercar construction too .... a lot of the cars above involve paying extra for the badge, except for the McLaren.


No argument there.

ParaHandy: And yes, it meets the cut on performance if not on price ....


The GT-R is a great performing car, but not quite on Ferrari's level in terms of style. Don't get me wrong though, I'd probably rather have an R34 GT-R than any other car in the world, excluding the M3 CSL.
 
2012-12-13 03:22:13 PM

bluefoxicy: That sounds like a good way to get more stupid, inexperienced drivers on the road to pose a danger to themselves and others.


I appreciate your point. I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth that are the exact opposite of what I actually said.

Next time, you would do better to post your rant without quoting my unrelated post.
 
2012-12-13 03:24:47 PM
Fat body, tiny center, all it takes is a strong wind to make the passenger become roadkill.
 
2012-12-13 03:25:23 PM

mainsail: Holy Flyin' Mackerel; What speed were you traveling at? My TJ would need a lot of parts to make up $6K worth of accident...


I have a Nissan Xterra. My first deer to ever hit, and he came up along a steep ditch bank on the blackest of nights to run his knee (???, definitely just legs) into the side front panel, just in front of the passenger side hinge, down just behind the mudflap of my front wheel. It looked like someone threw a softball at my car (so it wasn't a full impact by a deer, you know). It took off some of the paint to expose the metal beneath. I went to get a quote, and they said $1500-2k after labor and everything. I was floored. Of course, this is a small town, I may get a better deal if I drove to the nearest big town, but... I guess it IS in a spot that's for stress points or something, so that's why it is more pricey. I don't know. Never had to deal with any kind of damage to a car before.

Suffice to say, it can happen and add up quick.
 
2012-12-13 03:25:40 PM

Tom_Slick: czetie: /I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".

To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.


Ah, so the answer is "both". You do think this counts as painless, while not realizing that you are confirming that it's not going to fly when the alternative is to sign-and-drive for a small car.
 
2012-12-13 03:39:41 PM

Jedekai: /BioDiesel is going to kill electric - and hydrogen isn't that far behind.


Hydrogen is a pipe dream for automotive use. Its a decent enough method of energy storage, but not on a small scale like we do with gasoline. While hydrogen does have a higher specific energy, octane and other hydrocarbons of similar lengths have some of the highest energy densities of any readily available compounds. Hydrogen has a specific energy of about 142 megajoules per kilogram, while gasoline has only about 48mj/kg. BUT, a kilogram of gasoline is about 1.4 liters, and a kilogram of liquid hydrogen is a little over 14 liters. so not only would you need a fuel tank nearly four times the size for a car of similar range (and thats assuming hydrogen would be as efficient as an internal combustion engine), but hydrogen is only liquid at 20 degrees kelvin, or about 250 degrees below zero. Maintaining that low a temperature requires even more energy, plus all sorts of fancy high pressure storage systems that require specialized materials because hydrogen embrittles many metals. Battery tech is getting better every day, its not to the energy density of gasoline yet, but were getting there.

greenecon.net

greenecon.net
 
2012-12-13 03:46:42 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-13 03:47:35 PM

MindStalker: I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(


I believe Carver did have some production vehicles on the road in Europe. I know Top Gear tested them a couple of times. Even Jezza liked it.

Supposedly, a company in California bought the rights to the Carver design and are producing their own version called "Persu".

Still seems to be vaporware, more's the pity. Wouldn't mind owning one with an ICE powerplant.
 
2012-12-13 03:49:32 PM

Pfighting Polish: OK, flame away at this, but I think there's are counters to the points you guys are making here:

1. It's unsafe.

So are motorcycles and scooters, really, but people ride those and that's who these are marketed towards. If you're that concerned about safety, you're not going to buy a motorcycle or scooter, either, so it's not marketed towards you.

I'll grant you that you probably aren't considering something like this if you were looking into a motorcycle because part of owning a motorcycle is the machismo of it, even a crotch rocket. This isn't the most macho vehicle. But a lot of the scooter owners I know, particularly female ones, would love to have a little more safety, something that's easier to steer, the ability to carry more than a small bag of groceries and the convenience of not having to ruin their hair with a helmet all the time. Bonus on the fully-electric part.

Looked at that way, and looking at how many people have embraced scooters, it's just an improvement on that idea. Only disadvantage is it takes a little more space than a scooter. So be it.

2. It won't drive well in bad weather.

Again, neither does a motorcycle or a scooter. The scooter owners I know have a reasonable car they drive in those conditions. They save so much in the months they use the scooter that it pays off in the end.

3. It costs too much.

Again, it's what you save down the line, plus, the cost will go down. The early adopters will have to pay, but it will get better if there are early adopters. One of these ideas will eventually catch on, so there will be.

4. It looks dorky.

This is the only thing I can't counter you on. But I will say this: As a compact car driver (just a good ol' all-American Chevy Cobalt), I can't tell you how annoying it is to not be able to see around curb-parked SUVs when trying to pull onto streets, how slowly they accelerate to speed on the freeway, when they can't/won't see you or make room for you trying to change lanes, etc. If ...


1) Dude in TFA is the one saying it's as safe as a car and good in all weather... we're simply saying that's BS.
It's a MOTORCYCLE... you still have to wear a helmet. That's where the ultimate failing of this thing will be.

2) Again... dude says it's good for all weather... we're just calling out the BS.

3) It does cost too much. It's an electric scooter with a bubble. Even at $10k... it costs too much.

4) Looks are subjective. If I say it's ugly... then it's ugly.
I'm sorry my giant SUV bothers you... get over it. I need it for reasons that are not any of your farking business.
 
2012-12-13 03:49:36 PM

MindStalker: Hrm, apparently Persu Link , bought the tech from Carver..


*shakes tiny, impotent fist of rage*
 
2012-12-13 03:54:12 PM

czetie: Tom_Slick: czetie: /I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".

To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.

Ah, so the answer is "both". You do think this counts as painless, while not realizing that you are confirming that it's not going to fly when the alternative is to sign-and-drive for a small car.


Here in Virginia at least, we have the motercycle driving and safety program put on by the DMV. So you take the class, which includes written instruction and road trials. They provide the bikes, or, you can bring your own.

I think it takes three weeks to complete, but after that you have your M class stamped on your license.

after that... you can legally operate any thing that is classified as a motorcycle.

I don't think any traffic cop would mess with you too much however if were operating an inclosed Delta trike as long as the vehicle was registered and tagged properly.
Virginia is also a Helmet state law...I guess if the cop wanted to be a REAL DICK, he could ticket you for operating a motorcycle with out a helmet inside of there as well.
 
2012-12-13 04:11:33 PM

tricycleracer: moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.

Or a cool-looking pizza cutter?

[www.toxel.com image 450x338]


That's actually pretty cool. I wouldn't want to ride it, but as utensils go, I wouldn't want to ride a C-1 either.
 
2012-12-13 04:14:07 PM

Cerebral Knievel: czetie: Tom_Slick: czetie: /I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".

To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.

Ah, so the answer is "both". You do think this counts as painless, while not realizing that you are confirming that it's not going to fly when the alternative is to sign-and-drive for a small car.

Here in Virginia at least, we have the motercycle driving and safety program put on by the DMV. So you take the class, which includes written instruction and road trials. They provide the bikes, or, you can bring your own.

I think it takes three weeks to complete, but after that you have your M class stamped on your license.

after that... you can legally operate any thing that is classified as a motorcycle.

I don't think any traffic cop would mess with you too much however if were operating an inclosed Delta trike as long as the vehicle was registered and tagged properly.
Virginia is also a Helmet state law...I guess if the cop wanted to be a REAL DICK, he could ticket you for operating a motorcycle with out a helmet inside of there as well.


Again: if the choice is "three week class"... or "not three week class"... I can tell you right now that this thing is not remotely compelling enough for the average car driver to go out and get his M endorsement. It's an obstacle, and this thing doesn't need more obstacles.

Persuade the DoT to define a class of vehicles that have different mechanical standards to regular cars (maybe defined by weight?) while allowing it to be driven on a regular driver's license and it might have a chance. Otherwise, the market is limited to people who already have their M.
 
2012-12-13 04:20:19 PM
bluefoxicy is heinous to argue with, but he's damn entertaining to watch.
 
2012-12-13 04:28:15 PM
I'm sorry my giant SUV bothers you... get over it. I need it for reasons that are not any of your farking business.

Absolutely! Reasons such as increase your nation's dependency on foreign interests, polluting the biosphere as much as possible for your children, all kinds of things.

/why yes, this is a pet peeve of mine
//we are a society of disgusting over-consumers IMHO
 
2012-12-13 04:30:10 PM

czetie: Cerebral Knievel: czetie: Tom_Slick: czetie: /I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".

To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.

Ah, so the answer is "both". You do think this counts as painless, while not realizing that you are confirming that it's not going to fly when the alternative is to sign-and-drive for a small car.

Here in Virginia at least, we have the motercycle driving and safety program put on by the DMV. So you take the class, which includes written instruction and road trials. They provide the bikes, or, you can bring your own.

I think it takes three weeks to complete, but after that you have your M class stamped on your license.

after that... you can legally operate any thing that is classified as a motorcycle.

I don't think any traffic cop would mess with you too much however if were operating an inclosed Delta trike as long as the vehicle was registered and tagged properly.
Virginia is also a Helmet state law...I guess if the cop wanted to be a REAL DICK, he could ticket you for operating a motorcycle with out a helmet inside of there as well.

Again: if the choice is "three week class"... or "not three week class"... I can tell you right now that this thing is not remotely compelling enough for the average car driver to go out and get his M endorsement. It's an obstacle, and this thing doesn't need more obstacles.

Persuade the DoT to define a class of vehicles that have different mechanical standards to regular cars (maybe defined by weight?) while allowing it to be driven o ...


I think in general we need some more license classifications, its kinda bullshiat that someone could take their test in a geo metro and then go drive a chevy suburban.
 
2012-12-13 04:35:42 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: 4) Looks are subjective. If I say it's ugly... then it's ugly.
I'm sorry my giant SUV bothers you... get over it. I need it for reasons that are not any of your farking business.


Lies!
 
2012-12-13 04:43:22 PM

moike: If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x479]


I hate you for living a life that implicitly mocks my pathetic existence.
 
2012-12-13 04:44:19 PM

oldfarthenry: Being trapped in a small fibreglass egg with my own flatus? Um, no.


If someone could just figure out how to convert farts to fuel you'd be in business.
 
2012-12-13 04:50:37 PM

FLMountainMan: To save costs, you could even roll it out gradually, have one lane be the "recharge" lane.


bundae.files.wordpress.com
It's been done.
 
2012-12-13 04:51:33 PM
16k for a motorcycle that you can't ditch off of? Can't wait to see what happens when the gyrostab fails. This thing is just full of fail. Some SF hipster saving the world by building a complicated, expensive motorcycle with a big windscreen and no cargo capacity.
 
2012-12-13 04:51:48 PM

Jument: I'm sorry my giant SUV bothers you... get over it. I need it for reasons that are not any of your farking business.

Absolutely! Reasons such as increase your nation's dependency on foreign interests, polluting the biosphere as much as possible for your children, all kinds of things.

/why yes, this is a pet peeve of mine
//we are a society of disgusting over-consumers IMHO


Go ahead and be peeved... if it makes you feel better.

Not gonna change the fact that I can't tow 10,000lbs and carry 6 adults comfortably with a Smart Car.
 
2012-12-13 05:06:40 PM

ParaHandy: Glitchwerks: bluefoxicy: That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.

In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. While you could certainly make a case for past Lamborghini cars like the Diablo and Countach as being poorly built and overpowered, the Aventador and Gallardo are pound for pound some of the best cars in existence. Same with Ferrari and it's 458, 599 GTO, etc.

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

/I've seen this bitter hatred towards European performance cars before.

There are modern, less expnesive approaches to supercar construction too .... a lot of the cars above involve paying extra for the badge, except for the McLaren.

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 720x540]

And yes, it meets the cut on performance if not on price ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_test_track_Power_Lap_T im es

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_l ap _times#Bridge_to_gantry


That car is going to age badly. Don't get me wrong... a wonderful car with great technology - but a shiatty body style. No sex appeal whatsoever.
 
2012-12-13 05:16:37 PM

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


It is clearly not designed with the Amurrikan physique in mind.

That said, being under 200lbs and having a two hour commute (each way) means I'll take it!
 
2012-12-13 05:19:32 PM

czetie: Cerebral Knievel: czetie: Tom_Slick: czetie: /I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".

To me it was painless and I did it on a bike rather than a trike, it took 1 hour for the written test and 2 hours for the driving test including the inevitable wait times at the DMV, the written test was easy just having to learn hand signals rules of the road etc, and the driving test just made sure you could start, stop and turn left and right. I would think a modern trike would be even easier as you don't have to learn how to handle a bike.

Ah, so the answer is "both". You do think this counts as painless, while not realizing that you are confirming that it's not going to fly when the alternative is to sign-and-drive for a small car.

Here in Virginia at least, we have the motercycle driving and safety program put on by the DMV. So you take the class, which includes written instruction and road trials. They provide the bikes, or, you can bring your own.

I think it takes three weeks to complete, but after that you have your M class stamped on your license.

after that... you can legally operate any thing that is classified as a motorcycle.

I don't think any traffic cop would mess with you too much however if were operating an inclosed Delta trike as long as the vehicle was registered and tagged properly.
Virginia is also a Helmet state law...I guess if the cop wanted to be a REAL DICK, he could ticket you for operating a motorcycle with out a helmet inside of there as well.

Again: if the choice is "three week class"... or "not three week class"... I can tell you right now that this thing is not remotely compelling enough for the average car driver to go out and get his M endorsement. It's an obstacle, and this thing doesn't need more obstacles.

Persuade the DoT to define a class of vehicles that have different mechanical standards to regular cars (maybe defined by weight?) while allowing it to be driven o ...


well.. the class is over three weekends... to be clear on the matter. and I agree with on all the other matters. that's how I would like to see it myself.
 
jvl
2012-12-13 05:25:13 PM
Cyno01:

A chart of KWH/gal? Would this be a bad time to point out that Hydrogen is compressible in much the same way Oil isn't?
 
2012-12-13 05:29:21 PM

h0tsauce: Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]

It is clearly not designed with the Amurrikan physique in mind.

That said, being under 200lbs and having a two hour commute (each way) means I'll take it!


You smugly try to distance yourself from Americans by misspelling the word and implying they are fat (which they are).

And yet you commute two hours to work. Yeah, it's THOSE people who are the problem, not you. Nosiree...
 
2012-12-13 05:30:39 PM
As a complete cockwad American I demand a car larger than everyone else's to protect me against my driving like a complete farking retard.

Does that sum up the thread?
Because this shiat pisses me off.
 
2012-12-13 05:31:38 PM

FLMountainMan: You were making some great points until you got to this. Have you ever been to other countries? People are about as selfish as their options.


OK, fine. Then my statement applies to all of humanity rather than just Americans. All the more reason to support VHEMT. People, in general, are insensitive and dumb and all I feel like I can do is shake my head.
 
2012-12-13 05:33:13 PM

Liese: mainsail: Holy Flyin' Mackerel; What speed were you traveling at? My TJ would need a lot of parts to make up $6K worth of accident...

I have a Nissan Xterra. My first deer to ever hit, and he came up along a steep ditch bank on the blackest of nights to run his knee (???, definitely just legs) into the side front panel, just in front of the passenger side hinge, down just behind the mudflap of my front wheel. It looked like someone threw a softball at my car (so it wasn't a full impact by a deer, you know). It took off some of the paint to expose the metal beneath. I went to get a quote, and they said $1500-2k after labor and everything. I was floored. Of course, this is a small town, I may get a better deal if I drove to the nearest big town, but... I guess it IS in a spot that's for stress points or something, so that's why it is more pricey. I don't know. Never had to deal with any kind of damage to a car before.

Suffice to say, it can happen and add up quick.


Yikes. I mean, I got into a gonzowhopper of an accident involving a sheet of ice on the freeway (thanks, Pawlenty for saving plowing money) and despite having seven colors of shiat beat out of my jeep by guard rails, it still only came to 3K, total. Wow....
 
2012-12-13 05:42:15 PM

error 303: So for $18,000, you could get a new SUV AND a car that got roughly 35 mpg.

If you're referring to the first generation Kia Rio, that's not really true. The car got 26 mpg in mixed driving.

/Used to have one, it was a piece of crap
//I kind of miss it though

Ah. Hm. Thought they were better than that. I've got a second gen and it's definitely a piece of crap that I'll miss when it's gone.


Nah, Kia fudges their MPG numbers. There was just a huge thing about it where both them and Hyundai had to compensate people who bought their cars for the MPG.
 
2012-12-13 05:48:09 PM

Tsar_Bomba1: ParaHandy: Glitchwerks: bluefoxicy: That's because, at an unfounded guess, you probably think terribly built Italian Lambos and Ferraris are good cars, rather than grounded shiat boxes with huge engines.

In terms of performance, Lamborghini and Ferrari aren't just good...they are outstanding. While you could certainly make a case for past Lamborghini cars like the Diablo and Countach as being poorly built and overpowered, the Aventador and Gallardo are pound for pound some of the best cars in existence. Same with Ferrari and it's 458, 599 GTO, etc.

Yes, they are extremely expensive and high maintenance, but as feats of engineering they are almost currently unrivaled, except for cars like the MP4-12C, Veyron, and a scant few others.

/I've seen this bitter hatred towards European performance cars before.

There are modern, less expnesive approaches to supercar construction too .... a lot of the cars above involve paying extra for the badge, except for the McLaren.

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 720x540]

And yes, it meets the cut on performance if not on price ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_test_track_Power_Lap_T im es

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_l ap _times#Bridge_to_gantry

That car is going to age badly. Don't get me wrong... a wonderful car with great technology - but a shiatty body style. No sex appeal whatsoever.


It's intentionally Japanese, rather than an Italian mid-engine knockoff (c.f Mitsubishi 3000GT, used to have one, Lexus LFA, never will) and you have to appreciate it for what it is. I don't find the car particularly beautiful, but it definitely says Rice Rocket :) The look does grow on you. There are many things not to like about it, but none of them detracts from its amazing ability to go round corners.

- the DCT's clumsy clutch control makes me look like a dilettante who can't drive stick in car parks (though admittedly the car is too quick for a stick)
- the interior is Lexus grade (best of Japan) and great compared to a quotidian Nissan, but plain Jane compared to a 911 turbo which is its direct competitor
- Nissan's "Music box" entertainment system and GPS are both awful. Usability on the former is so bad you have to install an iPod in the car.
- random items of apparently arbitrary cheapness ... $2 radiator caps from a Versa, lack of gas struts on the hood, no memory for power seats
- front seats are not true race buckets (neither are the 911 turbo's, but Porsche offers foldable ones as a factory option at least) and lateral support is lacking
- won't downshift from 2nd to 1st at certain times when it's necessary
- its prodigious performance nothwithstanding, it's overweight (1740kg) and under-tuned (0.8 bar max boost)
- interaction between the different software systems (4wd, traction control, engine) is pretty primitive

Even taking all of the above into account, it's still amazing and a bargain compared to any other performance car on the market. I seriously recommend getting one.

As to its aging, it's built like a brick outhouse, and I only drive it 6k miles a year. Whatever you think about it, it's a groundbreaking car from a technology standpoint and will surely become a collector's item in a couple of decades, which is when I will sell mine .... 911 turbos bottom out at $30k and then go up in value, this should do the same, and it's a lower volume car .... the engines are hand built in a lab by Nissan mater techs, and they can only turn out 1100 or so a month.
 
2012-12-13 06:38:08 PM

jvl: Cyno01:

A chart of KWH/gal? Would this be a bad time to point out that Hydrogen is compressible in much the same way Oil isn't?


Did you even read my post? LIQUID hydrogen is still 14 times less dense than gasoline. And liquefying hydrogen takes something like a third of its potential energy. Some engineers got a prius 650 miles on like a 40 gallon tank of liquid hydrogen. A prius can do about that on a 12 gallon tank of gas. Between the energy required to electrolize it, cool/compress it, and the added weight of having a large tank strong enough to withstand about a thousand atmospheres of pressure in the back of your car, you lose a lot of any energy gain made by using hydrogen.
 
2012-12-13 07:04:05 PM

Cerebral Knievel: well.. the class is over three weekends... to be clear on the matter. and I agree with on all the other matters. that's how I would like to see it myself.


Yes, I regularly drive past one of the classes in session at a NoVa college campus. But in any case, it sounds like we very largely agree: vehicle (and license) classification needs to catch up to technology if we're going to have ultra-small vehicles that drive like a car, not a bike.
 
2012-12-13 07:08:45 PM

Cyno01: I think in general we need some more license classifications, its kinda bullshiat that someone could take their test in a geo metro and then go drive a chevy suburban 12.5 tonne 40 ft long truck full of all their worldly goods and pulling a trailer with their 2.5 tonne Chevy Suburban on it..


Yes, really, at least here in Texas. U-Haul or Ryder will rent you this exact rig.
 
2012-12-13 07:30:23 PM

ParaHandy: Cyno01: I think in general we need some more license classifications, its kinda bullshiat that someone could take their test in a geo metro and then go drive a chevy suburban 12.5 tonne 40 ft long truck full of all their worldly goods and pulling a trailer with their 2.5 tonne Chevy Suburban on it..

Yes, really, at least here in Texas. U-Haul or Ryder will rent you this exact rig.


Going back around 30 years, Florida would grant you a CDL (commercial license) if you passed a special, not very difficult, written test. That'd let you drive anything except an ambulance or a school bus.

That meant that I, who had never driven anything bigger than a 20 foot box truck, could legally get behind the wheel of an 80,000 tractor trailer. Nothing wrong with that plan.
 
2012-12-13 07:38:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: ahem

[www.leosgarage.com image 640x480]


Is that Command Keen's Bean with Bacon Mega Rocket?
 
2012-12-13 08:24:24 PM
Even though it looks very goofy and nowhere near as safe as a car, I love to see stuff like this. I've been car shopping recently (engine blew in my Civic) and last week looked at an '07 Prius. over 10k, no thanks. As much as I want my next car to be a hybrid, I just can't get past what these alternate/electric/hybrid vehicles are being sold for. And no, I'm not a dirty hippy. I'm just a lazy person who would rather make fewer trips to the gas station and hopefully contribute a small amount to conserving our natural resources because the tech is there to do it and it's a smart move. I hope that companies continue to build and design, even if some of their designs-like this one, are pretty much laughable in any area that gets snow and/or are a joke to commuters like me that spend 2 hours on the highway each day.
 
2012-12-13 08:30:00 PM

specialkae: Even though it looks very goofy and nowhere near as safe as a car, I love to see stuff like this. I've been car shopping recently (engine blew in my Civic) and last week looked at an '07 Prius. over 10k, no thanks. As much as I want my next car to be a hybrid, I just can't get past what these alternate/electric/hybrid vehicles are being sold for. And no, I'm not a dirty hippy. I'm just a lazy person who would rather make fewer trips to the gas station and hopefully contribute a small amount to conserving our natural resources because the tech is there to do it and it's a smart move. I hope that companies continue to build and design, even if some of their designs-like this one, are pretty much laughable in any area that gets snow and/or are a joke to commuters like me that spend 2 hours on the highway each day.


Aw c'mon. Couple-hundred bucks and a weekend of drinking will get your engine replaced. Honda engines are cheeeeeeap. Swapping an engine is pretty easy, since it's mostly just hoses and bolts.

Admit it. You just want a newer car. ;)

/just playin'
 
2012-12-13 08:46:31 PM
Have over 100 people mentioned yet it's a covered motorcycle? Still, I'd consider it, if fun to ride.
 
2012-12-13 08:54:35 PM

Frederick: Have over 100 people mentioned yet it's a covered motorcycle? Still, I'd consider it, if fun to ride.


Well of course... With the cover on at least your friends won't be able to see you.
 
2012-12-13 09:57:52 PM
So, a motorcycle for people who think Vespas are scary.
 
2012-12-13 10:07:14 PM

Cyno01: jvl: Cyno01:

A chart of KWH/gal? Would this be a bad time to point out that Hydrogen is compressible in much the same way Oil isn't?

Did you even read my post? LIQUID hydrogen is still 14 times less dense than gasoline. And liquefying hydrogen takes something like a third of its potential energy. Some engineers got a prius 650 miles on like a 40 gallon tank of liquid hydrogen. A prius can do about that on a 12 gallon tank of gas. Between the energy required to electrolize it, cool/compress it, and the added weight of having a large tank strong enough to withstand about a thousand atmospheres of pressure in the back of your car, you lose a lot of any energy gain made by using hydrogen.


Hydrogen isn't even a fuel.
 
2012-12-14 12:17:47 AM

ParaHandy: santadog: doczoidberg: I agree. The price of this thing will determine whether it goes anywhere.

20 thousand dollars?
--Nope. People will just buy a normal car.

5 thousand dollars?
--Well, hell. I just might consider it.

That's the trouble with these green technologies. Micro houses, smart cars...they all cost way too much. People would buy this stuff if the price reflected what they are getting upfront.

For $6,000 you can buy a 550cc scooter that gets about 60mpg.
200miles on a single charge. I like it.

And the $6k scooter will still be running long after the battery pack in the $18k scooter, which will be long before the latter has saved you $12k in fuel.

I view small light weight electric vehicles as the future of urban commuting, and more specialization of vehicles as they become cheaper and energy becomes more expensive. I prefer the 1-2 seat electric car with a monocoque carbon fiber body, c.f. the cheap process for cold forming it that Gordon Murray has been working on.

However, there is a long, long way to go with battery technology.


Are you saying the $6K scooter that gets 60mpg (holding less than 3 gallons) will be running after the charge on a the machine that gets 200 miles from a single charge? Or are you saying the battery pack will be useless while the scooter still runs?

In the first case, just do the math.
Vehicle in the article: I don't know what the lifespan of said battery is, so I looked at the Chevy Volt. Different animal, and probably more expensive, but it's something.
Chevy Volt battery is good up to 100,000miles. Conservatively, 10,000 per year put on the vehicle.. so the battery pack can last up to 10 years. Replacement cost. $5,100 some bucks.

For the $6K scooter: 60mpg. Cost to get to the 200 miles the article talks about = $10.23 at $3.00 gal.
It will cost about $5,000 in gas for the scooter to hit 100,000miles.
So, in terms of energy costs.. about the same, but it's not that likely the scooter will hit 100,000 miles.

For the cost of another volt battery, the car could, if all other mechanics are sound, hit another 100,000 miles. Could the scooter? sure.. just keep rebuilding the engine, or buy another $6,000 scooter.

Me, I'm waiting for an electric scooter that can hold a charge beyond 60 miles. My scooter tour rocky mountain National Park, and usually riders put up to 55 miles on the scooters each day.
 
2012-12-14 12:21:17 AM

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:


Wanna bet?

img703.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-14 12:33:52 AM
A gyroscopically stabilized electric motorcycle with linkage steering? They're marketing wrong. The next prototype should be stripped of its top, painted red and have a promo video of a guy whipping it around a corner screaming "TETSUOOOO!".
 
2012-12-14 12:44:34 AM

impaler: hdhale: According to Kim, it's a concept whose time has come. Today's youths are less interested in buying cars than they are in buying iPhones and other gadgets: Car ownership among people between ages 18 and 34 is down by 30 percent in the last five years.

It's cute when urban people, particularly those who live in high density mass transit areas, try to apply urban sensibilities to things going on outside the city limits.

All my younger nieces and nephews want a CAR when they get a bit older. They may also want an iPhone, but they want their own means of transportation and they don't want one that is a glorified Vespa. If car ownership is down, it is because so are employment rate among teens, while insurance rates continue ever upward.

It's cute when people ignore hard statistical facts with limited personal anecdotes.


Big city folk should probably just stick with mass transit.
 
2012-12-14 12:48:53 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Cyno01: jvl: Cyno01:

A chart of KWH/gal? Would this be a bad time to point out that Hydrogen is compressible in much the same way Oil isn't?

Did you even read my post? LIQUID hydrogen is still 14 times less dense than gasoline. And liquefying hydrogen takes something like a third of its potential energy. Some engineers got a prius 650 miles on like a 40 gallon tank of liquid hydrogen. A prius can do about that on a 12 gallon tank of gas. Between the energy required to electrolize it, cool/compress it, and the added weight of having a large tank strong enough to withstand about a thousand atmospheres of pressure in the back of your car, you lose a lot of any energy gain made by using hydrogen.

Hydrogen isn't even a fuel.


It is for stars, but then, no one ever accused you of knowing anything about space
 
2012-12-14 02:23:59 AM

flux: You know what I want to see? A workable, modular car design. If it's just you driving yourself, it's a light, driver-only dealie like this thing, or a tiny two-seater. Need to move a few people? Add on a backseat module. Need to haul some furniture? Connect the cargo module and make it a mini-pickup truck. A two-car family wouldn't even need two full cars with a system like that -- just two driving modules. They could connect the cargo or passenger module to whichever car needed it, but most of the time, they could get probably get by with just the driver modules.


I would support your Kickstarter.
 
2012-12-14 06:09:08 AM
If it got down under $10K and actually met even halfway decent safety standards, I'd consider it. Until then, I'm sticking with my scooter and renting a car for those rare occasions when I actually have to drive any real distances.
 
2012-12-14 10:52:05 AM

Flipper47465: Conflagrations, you built and electric Vespa with a Tupperware shell. Let me know how it does when some drunken soccer mom in a Escalade blows a stop sign and run in to you. On the bright side maybe some of your internal organs will remain inside the only vehicle after the crash.

That makes a Prius look like a Hummer.


Same thing that happens when you get hit by a car. Chances just went from 50% on your side to 100%
 
2012-12-14 10:56:39 AM
imageshack.us
 
2012-12-14 11:08:04 AM

Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]


*ah-hem*

Top Gear - Craptastic Handling Cars - Smart Car
 
2012-12-14 11:16:24 AM

oldass31: Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]

*ah-hem*

Top Gear - Craptastic Handling Cars - Smart Car


Cornering and taking a hit are two different things.

Plus, the Smart's use case is city streets. You're clearly giving up higher speed handling for being able to fit two of them in a single city street parallel parking space. I would never want one, but I don't commute in heavily urbanized areas.
 
2012-12-14 08:34:21 PM

santadog: [imageshack.us image 493x551]


WTF is that from?! I don't think I've seen that episode!!
 
2012-12-16 12:21:46 PM

Glitchwerks: santadog: [imageshack.us image 493x551]

WTF is that from?! I don't think I've seen that episode!!


I don't know what episode it's from, but the look on his face has me cracking up non stop.
 
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