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(The Atlantic)   Startup car company builds car that "breaks the rules." Apparently, Rule Number One was don't build a car that looks like a shopping cart   (theatlantic.com) divider line 302
    More: Asinine, Rule Number One, car pools, electric cars, battery packs  
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27722 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2012 at 11:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 12:41:23 PM  

Xenomech: omg:
"The 2014 C-1 is estimated to cost as low as $19,900 USD after federal tax incentives."


wow, that's a Civic
Hell it's almost a Prius....
 
2012-12-13 12:41:56 PM  
Close, but no dice.

I'd buy and use it if it was something around $10k.

Hybrid would be necessary. All Electric just not happening.

Or diesel, so I could go Bio Diesel.

Something that small should be able to take 5 gal of fuel and run for two weeks. Most motorbikes I've ridden were 1 gal or 1.5 gal tanks and ran forever.

You get me that purchase price with that economy in a stylish shell and I'll do it.
 
2012-12-13 12:42:58 PM  
i1148.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-13 12:43:05 PM  

Magorn: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

So do these, but it turns out the frame is an intergral roll cage, which makes them safer than conventional cars:
[thetalkingmirror.com image 640x480]


Something is going to crumple. It's your choice whether it's the vehicle or the occupants.
 
2012-12-13 12:43:09 PM  
It would perhaps be a little more innovative if it hadn't been done by Wolseley in England a hundred years ago, and in rather more style too.
www.wolseleyworld.com
 
2012-12-13 12:46:48 PM  

flux: You know what I want to see? A workable, modular car design. If it's just you driving yourself, it's a light, driver-only dealie like this thing, or a tiny two-seater. Need to move a few people? Add on a backseat module. Need to haul some furniture? Connect the cargo module and make it a mini-pickup truck. A two-car family wouldn't even need two full cars with a system like that -- just two driving modules. They could connect the cargo or passenger module to whichever car needed it, but most of the time, they could get probably get by with just the driver modules.


There's been ideas for this. The ones I like would use a skateboard type platform that has the chassis with batteries and motors and everything. Then a body gets added to make it whatever type of box someone wants. You could make it modular beyond that and give owners options to make it different things.

The problems I see is that a chassis setup to haul things like a small truck might not be what you'd want most of the time. And it would be nice to shorten and narrow the chassis for when it's just the driver. Also, if the laws change to where full drive by wire is allowed it would make everything plug and play. But, as for now there has to be a mechanical link for steering and I think brakes.

It will take someone actually upsetting the dynamic and forcing the car makers to build different cars. They have the ability and the technology, just no desire or good enough reason. But, it's coming. Just don't know when.
 
2012-12-13 12:46:59 PM  
If I'm going to pay 20 grand for something with three wheels it better at least carry two people, do 200mph, and lay long lurid darkies when you wack the throttle wide open... even at triple digit speeds...

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-13 12:48:04 PM  

MindStalker: I always thought that would be a good idea, the problem comes in where/how do you park the modules.
Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.


If you drive your kids to work every day, then yeah, it would be most practical to leave the passenger module attached all the time (which, I imagine, is effectively what you have now, if you drive a car with a backseat). But imagine a family whose children take the bus: if each parent drives to work, they only need the passenger module when the family is traveling together, maybe a night a week plus weekends. If it's done right, all modules could fit in a one-car garage. Or a couple with no kids who occasionally need to move large items. It might not be a great idea for every single person, but it would be for many.
 
2012-12-13 12:48:14 PM  
That doesn't look like it has enough Big Gulp cupholders for Real Americans.

\Plus, how am I going to get Kylie & Brianna to their soccer game in a blizzard without 4WD?
\\I'm sticking with teh Canyonero...
 
2012-12-13 12:50:38 PM  

whconner4: St_Francis_P: In fact, the C-1 isn't really a car at all: It's officially classified as a motorcycle, but CEO Daniel Kim says that the vehicle resists classification.

"It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.

This guy needs a serious punch in the balls.



You'd like to disrupt his ball space, with extreme prejudice?
 
2012-12-13 12:51:32 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
/ vroom!
 
2012-12-13 12:53:33 PM  
ahem

www.leosgarage.com
 
2012-12-13 12:53:48 PM  
Mattel has been selling these for years.
www.toymania.com
 
2012-12-13 12:55:01 PM  

jonny_q: St_Francis_P: That kind of marketing-speak would scare me, even if I wanted one.

It's a motorcycle so that it doesn't have to conform to any regulations for "cars". And this is fine... we need to be able to have innovations like this without someone claiming it doesn't meet all the standards for "cars", because, well, motorcycles are still legal and this is definitely not worse than one of those.


I understand why getting it certified as a motorcycle is an advantage from a manufacturing perspective, but it's a disaster from a marketing perspective. I have a driver's license. Everybody I know has a driver's license. I know exactly one person with a motorcycle license, and that's the retired guy across the street with the vanity Harley that he rides to go nowhere in particular on fine days when his wife shoos him out of the house.

Yes, I know, "the plural of anecdote yadayadayada". But realistically, if these things are supposed to appeal to the mass of drivers because they handle like a car, the first step to ownership cannot possibly be to require somebody to get a motorcycle license. It's just nonsensical.

Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.
 
2012-12-13 12:56:25 PM  
FTFA "It's disrupting the automotive space," says Kim.

Translation: We're going to go bankrupt inside of a year.
 
2012-12-13 12:59:39 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: "Safety of a car"?
I'm gonna need to see some test results on that.

Yeah, that looks like a deathtrap, especially in a side-impact collision.

Having done over $6000.00 damage to a Jeep Wrangler, I was thinking of animal collisions

/deer, specifically
//frikkin deer


Holy Flyin' Mackerel; What speed were you traveling at? My TJ would need a lot of parts to make up $6K worth of accident...
 
2012-12-13 01:03:16 PM  
I doubt people will be driving cross-country in this thing, so the collision-with-a-moose scenario doesn't worry me. And this is clearly NOT for breeders, either. It's for "urbans" who don't want a full blown car, of which there are a growing number. And it may have commercial applications as well--I wonder if courier services or businesses that deliver will be interested in a vehicle that is covered from the elements, yet subject to motorcycle rules instead of car rules. It should have a greater choice of places to park when dropping off a pizza than a car would. (Don't delivery services outside of the US already make heavy use of motor scooters?) I just wonder if a 200 mile range is going to be enough, or what the consequences might be of charging for a few minutes at a time between orders.
 
2012-12-13 01:04:08 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

I think the T-Rex would be more fun, but I just don't see $50k in one of these. I saw them built on How It's Made and they're pretty much coach-built. If you had the demand you could scale up production with stamped metal frames instead of the tubular steel hand welding to cut costs.
 
2012-12-13 01:04:42 PM  

czetie:

Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.


Oddly enough here in a California as soon as a motorcycle has a sidecar on it, or it's classified as a 'trike'... (anything with three wheels) you can drive it just fine on a standard class C license, no special endorsement or training required.

Why that loophole exists, I have no idea... Both trikes and motorcycles with sidecars are inherently harder to pilot in a safe manner than a standard motorcycle.
 
2012-12-13 01:04:44 PM  

MindStalker: I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


The Carver was a pretty cool concept, but certainly showed the market for motorcycles-with-shells is limited. The Carver was still a conventional engine. Maybe these guys will have better luck with the electric-powered idea. Costs about half the price of a Nissan Leaf, which is a far more conventional-looking and driving vehicle. Though it does have better range. It will come down to pricing as to whether or not these things have a chance.
 
2012-12-13 01:06:55 PM  

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


It's the same arrangement as carrying a woman on your back on a motorcycle.
 
2012-12-13 01:07:17 PM  
Im glad the top gear pics made an appearance.
 
2012-12-13 01:09:04 PM  

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-13 01:10:58 PM  

MindStalker: I really liked it when it was called the Carver. They never released anything though :(

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


I came here to say that, though I'm disappointed that the Carver One turned out to be vapor ware.
 
2012-12-13 01:11:41 PM  

czetie: Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.


In Georgia you can take your Motor Cycle test on a trike, so it is a painless process you just need to take the MC written test, get your permit for 60 days then take your driving test, which is nothing more than riding in a circle and doing a panic stop.
 
2012-12-13 01:12:18 PM  
Surprised no one's mentioned the Arcimoto yet. (Looks much cooler than the linked product.)
 
2012-12-13 01:12:45 PM  

dofus: RTOGUY: Can it handle a 3' snowdrift?

A FWD Jeep can't handle a 3' drift unless the driver *really* knows what he/she is doing.


Say's the guy living in Florida. Please stay out of Colorado in the winter months.
 
2012-12-13 01:13:01 PM  

MindStalker: Drop off my kids at school, I no longer need the passenger module, so I either park it at their school, or lug it with me to work anyways.


The easy solution is to get your kid a Trek Bicycle and make them bike to school, but then one day you look for

www.thestranger.com

but all you can find is

image.shutterstock.com

and you drive around the parking lot for 40 hours looking for your kid.
 
2012-12-13 01:13:12 PM  
www.vh1.com

Laughs (silently) at your design
 
2012-12-13 01:15:45 PM  
socialpsychologyeye.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-13 01:20:45 PM  
I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.
 
2012-12-13 01:22:03 PM  

moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.


Or a cool-looking pizza cutter?

www.toxel.com

/[stoplikingwhatidontlike.jpg]
 
2012-12-13 01:22:05 PM  

RTOGUY: Forget the side impact concern I'd like to know how he thinks it is capable of driving in "all weather". Anybody that lives anywhere with four distinct seasons has to look at that and wonder how it is going to handle any amount of snow. It doesn't tip over? Gee that's great! Can it handle a 3' snowdrift? Because that is my reality for at least half of the year.


And how does your Jeep Wrangler or AWD SUV handle three feet of snow. Answer: it doesn't, until it's plowed. The problem with deep snow is seldom traction, overwhelmingly ground clearance.
 
2012-12-13 01:25:02 PM  

ph0rk: I'm not sure I really see the appeal over a regular motorcycle.


Retaining your internal organs when it inevitably crashes.
 
2012-12-13 01:26:27 PM  
There are two things wrong with that car and they're with every electric car for that matter:

1. I can only afford to own one car.
2. I need to be able to use that car to visit my parents 400 miles away..


A car that I own must be able to do a road trip of at least 400 miles. Unless someone invents a train service where i can park my car on a train to move longer distances, i'll never own a pure electric car unless it can go farther than 400 miles on 1 charge. The only other way an electric car can attact me is if i can trade the battery at a gas station for a charged battery. It's kind of like how they switched the reactor core on the ship in Fifth Element. When i can do that to my electric car you can get me into an electric car.
 
2012-12-13 01:26:35 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Great now sell that bad boy for around $5000, that would really disrupt the market.


nothing about this at any price over 3.5 grand will do anything to anybody.
 
2012-12-13 01:28:02 PM  
A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.
 
2012-12-13 01:29:02 PM  

Xenomech: I'm sorry, but that seating arrangement is not going to fly:

[i50.tinypic.com image 830x564]


Is that illustration serious? The rear passenger has to wrap his legs around the front seat? So it's just as cramped as being on a motorcycle, but without the actual skin contact. Got it.
 
2012-12-13 01:29:17 PM  

santadog: Ya'll worried about collisions and stuff... there are plenty of motorcycles on the road without airbags, and side protection.. no bumpers etc. Yes, there are accidents, and I've personally know more people who died in a traditional vehicle, than I know of that involved just 2 wheels.
If you are afraid of it.. like a motorcycle.. then don't get one.

200 miles on a charge. That's pretty freakin' good.

/owns a scooter rental in Estes Park. 50cc - 250cc.
//would like to add this to the touring fleet.


You're being statistically mendacious; of course you would know more people who've died in conventional vehicles, there are overwhelmingly more of those on the road.

Also, you have a dog in this fight: you're profiting from renting 2-wheel transportation.

But Estes Park is nice, we enjoyed it.

/That is all.
 
2012-12-13 01:30:16 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.



Nope crumple zones make a huge difference.
 
2012-12-13 01:33:01 PM  

liam76: Because your parents have a ton of money, you think it being "green" is super neat, and you don't want to conform and get a car.


I just signed up for "Green" energy. I could have gotten wind energy for cheaper than my current price, but instead I got a wind/solar/hydro/nuclear/anything-that-doesn't-belche-shiat-into-the-ai r plan that buys whatever the cheapest non-crud-spewing tech is. If someone installs a big geothermal plant tomorrow and the power is 4.5c/kWh, they'll start buying 4.5c/kWh power; if they can buy enough to cover all their customers, their power prices come down. If not, the market competes, more plants are built because demand is high, and THEN their power prices come down.

It's going to cost me about $4/mo more. Well, in the summer it might cost me $6/mo less, since electricity is more expensive in the summer from my normal provider. It'll cost me more than the conventional option from another supplier at 7.99c (my current rate is 8.96c/kWh, with fixed option wind available from one supplier at 8.99c, market variable option at 9.90c, and market variable option from a third supplier at 9.94c that takes any renewable source; in the summer, my electric costs are at 10.5c/kWh, but daytime prices are more like 13c/kWh with night time prices around 9c/kWh to tax people for using their AC when the sun is out).

For the additional $4 (or, maybe, $8 above what I could get at the absolute cheapest), I shift $1000/year from coal and oil demand to pure clean demand.

Now, renewable gas, that's nuts. 58 cents/therm or I can buy offset at 72 cents/therm, whereby they buy enough carbon offsets to match the gas I use (i.e. they pay a subsidy on a unit of clean power equal to the amount of gas I burn). In general I use 1-2 therms for the stove and 9 therms to maintain a temperature of 62 degrees. My thermostat is designated for 73 degrees in the morning (5:15-8:00), 72 in the evening (4:15-10:00), and 62F for the remainder, with 72 during the day on weekends. Curtains actually make a difference in my gas usage. That's just for the winter, though.

Okay so again $3/month. It's not a lot of gas.
 
2012-12-13 01:33:39 PM  
Cute, in a "hello kitty" sort of way. Might have a market for mall shoppers or cycling on the beach if it rains. For daily actual traffic? Yeah, NO. Your insurance company should have a half million dollar deductable for the travesty your hipster thinking ass is about to become.
 
2012-12-13 01:35:03 PM  

moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.


I have a cool looking hammer. It also happens to pound nails or pull them up and rip holes in drywall. And it has a metal handle unlike my old non-cool looking hammer which had a wooden one and broke. It's almost as if the cool one is more functional in addition to being cooler! Oh wait, it's exactly like that.
 
2012-12-13 01:36:26 PM  

Tom_Slick: czetie: Call me back when the DMV allows vehicles like this to be driven on a regular driver's license.

In Georgia you can take your Motor Cycle test on a trike, so it is a painless process you just need to take the MC written test, get your permit for 60 days then take your driving test, which is nothing more than riding in a circle and doing a panic stop.


So apart from taking a written test, waiting 60 days, then taking a test on a borrowed/rented trike, you can pretty much sign and drive, just like a real car? That sounds painless.

Wait, no it doesn't.

/I can't even tell whether you know you're confirming my point, or whether you genuinely call that "painless".
 
2012-12-13 01:37:40 PM  

Tom_Slick: Huck And Molly Ziegler: A safe driving environment for me would be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial retrofitted with seat & shoulder belts and a driver's seat with a head restraint.
It's probably got enough sheet metal that would roll out to form two modern cars.


Nope crumple zones make a huge difference.


Yeah I think I'll go with the foot injury vs the head, neck, body cavity, and both legs.
 
2012-12-13 01:38:01 PM  
I've dreamed of one of those kinds of cars FOREBBAH! I want one!
 
2012-12-13 01:39:52 PM  

moothemagiccow: I might never understand the fetishization of cars. It's like buying a cool-looking hammer.


Eastwing hammers are extremely well-balanced and comfortable in the hand. I've tried, and compared to a $5 department store hammer (which the head eventually falls off of anyway, so okay in a home toolkit for occasional use but not for a contractor), they're a lot easier to make fly straight. With about zero experience, I was able to take full swings and hit nails straight on with the Eastwing.

It's also nice looking. But the balance and the quality of manufacture--the fact that it's full steel tang with either a synthetic or a polished hard leather wrapped handle--makes all the difference. Heads don't fall off of solid chunks of forged high-quality steel. Full tang handles don't break. Balanced tools--hammers, knives, swords, drills--go exactly where you put them and inflict less fatigue.

I don't want a flashy car that's a piece of shiat, like a Ferrari that needs $15k of maintenance every year if it's your daily driver. A Porsche won't bankrupt you, it's like any other car, but it's a damn high-end car. Audi cars, same deal, very nice cars, not as expensive as Porsche, you won't impress as many people talking about your awesome Audi, and it looks like any other car unless you buy a really high-end one, but they last forever and they're cheap to maintain and they have excellent AWD and handling and power and everything. These are cars. Italian cars are penis prosthesis.
 
2012-12-13 01:42:25 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Spanky_McFarksalot: FTFA:"but that cost will go down significantly--to around $16,000--once the product gains sufficient market share to enable bulk manufacturing."

Sooo, I have $16k to spend on a car....why would I pick that one?

Hell if I know you could buy dam near any sub-compact in the market for $16k and probably get better gas mileage, certainly more range.


Better gas mileage than an electric car??? I know, I know, who has time to actually read the article?
 
2012-12-13 01:43:49 PM  
http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/goldman-sachs-progress/archive/ 2012/12/lit-motors-builds-a-car-that-breaks-the-rules/265768/ ?oref=goldman-ob

i wonder if this positive story is being pushed by an investor.
 
2012-12-13 01:44:34 PM  

moike: lay long lurid darkies


I just accomplished that not even 10 minutes ago. Absolutely putrid.
 
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