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(Baltimore Sun)   Maryland highway administration explains why cameras write "work zone" speeding tickets when no workers are present: cameras are not for worker safety   (baltimoresun.com) divider line 97
    More: Obvious, worker safety, State Highway Administration, rises and falls, employment website, speed cameras, roadways, enforcement, Martin O'Malley  
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7402 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2012 at 9:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 09:07:58 AM  
There is a shocker. Its never about safety
 
2012-12-13 09:08:04 AM  
Well, duh. For profit law enforcement for the win.
 
2012-12-13 09:09:19 AM  
I really really hate speed and red light revenue generators er I mean safety enforcing cameras.
 
2012-12-13 09:10:40 AM  
It's painfully obvious what they're for. If speed was a real issue, they'd deploy measures to encourage people to slow down at the moment (rumble strips, an unoccupied cop car parked in the construction zone, a "your speed" radar sign, etc.), not something that sends them a ticket in the mail weeks after. And why wouldn't they leave them on 24/7? Would you shut off a camera if it was raking in thousands in free money each day?

These things should be illegal. Period. If a place needs speed enforcement, put a cop there.
 
2012-12-13 09:11:54 AM  
I've always thought running one of those little white camera jeeps would make a great 2nd job. Sit there all evening reading a magazine or newspaper or book. The state even built little nooks for them out of jersey walls so they won't get hit. There's even a porta-john on site for each jeep. Easy way to make some extra scratch.
 
2012-12-13 09:12:46 AM  
Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.
 
2012-12-13 09:13:28 AM  

pag1107: I've always thought running one of those little white camera jeeps would make a great 2nd job. Sit there all evening reading a magazine or newspaper or book. The state even built little nooks for them out of jersey walls so they won't get hit. There's even a porta-john on site for each jeep. Easy way to make some extra scratch.


You also earn the scorn of everyone going past you.
 
2012-12-13 09:15:32 AM  
I'm all for speed cameras, especially in Work Zones and School Zones. Have you ever been on a construction site on the side of the road and had people pass you at highway speeds? It's ridiculous.
 
2012-12-13 09:15:49 AM  
This is what you get when you cut taxes. They have to find other ways to find revenue.
 
2012-12-13 09:15:55 AM  

JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.


It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?
 
2012-12-13 09:16:30 AM  
So what happens here eventually, is that the system gets so backed up that "victims" of this scam start getting their notices too late to comply, and end up having to deal with warrants, no-knocks, being arrested. Nice way to eventually enslave everyone, huh?

"What are you in for?"
"Not paying a fine on time"

/half-kidding
 
2012-12-13 09:16:49 AM  

Carn: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?


Since road construction has no set hours of the day, how exactly do you propose the speed cameras work? How inconvenient is it for people to do 55mph instead of 65? Honestly.
 
2012-12-13 09:16:56 AM  
That's nuthin'. Another article on the same page:

City issued speed camera ticket to motionless car
 
2012-12-13 09:18:19 AM  

JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?


This isn't always true either. Twice I've seen "work zones" where there was no equipment or anything, as if they simply "forgot" to take down the lowered speed limit signs. Also, it's very common for the reduced speed limit to continue for up to a mile beyond the end of the work zone. I remember this happening on the Baltimore beltway inner loop. One time, there was work done around the I-95 interchange (on the top side), but the speed limit didn't go back up until well after Rt 702. This is about a mile or so of no work zone, but a lowered speed limit.
 
2012-12-13 09:18:24 AM  
From the article:

But Tabacek says the state always wants people slowing down in work zones. Also, he said, "four out of five injuries that take place in work zones are to the motorists themselves."

So its for our safety during times when workers are not present.
 
2012-12-13 09:18:51 AM  

JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.


No kidding. Speeding tickets cease to be a problem when you heed some free legal advice:

img17.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-13 09:19:27 AM  
Speeding and red light cameras.
GPS tracking for cars and people.
Security cams in public areas.
Legislation dictating what you can and can't eat based on healthcare costs.
Bans on smoking OUTDOORS.
Free Speech Zones.
Drug testing for employment.
NSA spying on your communications.
Secret detention facilities.
Police free to search you and your possessions almost at will.
Laws prohibiting many forms of self-defense.
Terrorist definitions expanded to include just about anyone out of line.
Rich/poor gap growing as a small elite group controls almost all the wealth.
High unemployment.


BUT WE GOT DUMB REALITY SHOWS AND FOOTBALL GAMES THAT ARE MOSTLY COMMERCIALS AND YOU CAN ORDER PIZZA FROM YOUR SPY-PHONE!! HAVE YOU HEARD THE LATEST VERSION OF THE POP SONG BY ATTRACTIVE GIRL???

AMERICA! fark YEAH! BE GLAD YOU DON'T LIVE IN ONE OF THEM COMMIE COUNTRIES!!

HTTR!!

/"Orwellian" no longer means anything.
 
2012-12-13 09:20:21 AM  
Are they seriously dumping a speed camera out on an interstate where 65mph is the speed limit and EVERY-SINGLE-PERSON is going over it and ticketing every single person that passes the camera? Seems overly dickish.
 
2012-12-13 09:22:30 AM  

had98c: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

No kidding. Speeding tickets cease to be a problem when you heed some free legal advice:

[img17.imageshack.us image 480x360]


*slow clap*
 
2012-12-13 09:23:48 AM  

styckx: Are they seriously dumping a speed camera out on an interstate where 65mph is the speed limit and EVERY-SINGLE-PERSON is going over it and ticketing every single person that passes the camera? Seems overly dickish.


Sounds reasonable. Meanwhile I'm at 65, following the law and safety and whistling my way down the road, not getting a ticket and driving responsibly.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 09:24:00 AM  
pag1107: I've always thought running one of those little white camera jeeps would make a great 2nd job. Sit there all evening reading a magazine or newspaper or book.

A guy in Arizona shot and killed a speed camera van occupant.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:18 AM  

tuxq: Carn: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?

Since road construction has no set hours of the day, how exactly do you propose the speed cameras work? How inconvenient is it for people to do 55mph instead of 65? Honestly.


First, many road work sites include those happy little yellow lights with a sign that reads "speed limit x when flashing". Second, I don't have a problem with speed enforcement, I have a problem with automated systems doing the enforcement. If you have a road crew in a dangerous area, put a cop there. It will be more effective and safer than a camera that the drivers may or may not know about. Once again, if it's about safety, a real human being police officer will get you there. If it's about just raising money and safety (or guilt) be damned, yay cameras!
 
2012-12-13 09:25:18 AM  

lordjupiter: Speeding and red light cameras.
GPS tracking for cars and people.
Security cams in public areas.
Legislation dictating what you can and can't eat based on healthcare costs.
Bans on smoking OUTDOORS.
Free Speech Zones.
Drug testing for employment.
NSA spying on your communications.
Secret detention facilities.
Police free to search you and your possessions almost at will.
Laws prohibiting many forms of self-defense.
Terrorist definitions expanded to include just about anyone out of line.
Rich/poor gap growing as a small elite group controls almost all the wealth.
High unemployment.


BUT WE GOT DUMB REALITY SHOWS AND FOOTBALL GAMES THAT ARE MOSTLY COMMERCIALS AND YOU CAN ORDER PIZZA FROM YOUR SPY-PHONE!! HAVE YOU HEARD THE LATEST VERSION OF THE POP SONG BY ATTRACTIVE GIRL???

AMERICA! fark YEAH! BE GLAD YOU DON'T LIVE IN ONE OF THEM COMMIE COUNTRIES!!

HTTR!!

/"Orwellian" no longer means anything.


It's time to start using "Huxleyan" instead?
 
2012-12-13 09:26:23 AM  

special20: So what happens here eventually, is that the system gets so backed up that "victims" of this scam start getting their notices too late to comply, and end up having to deal with warrants, no-knocks, being arrested. Nice way to eventually enslave everyone, huh?

"What are you in for?"
"Not paying a fine on time"

/half-kidding


WE ARE ALL ON THE GROUP W BENCH
 
2012-12-13 09:26:37 AM  

Joshua5: From the article:

But Tabacek says the state always wants people slowing down in work zones. Also, he said, "four out of five injuries that take place in work zones are to the motorists themselves."

So its for our safety during times when workers are not present.



Well, that seems fair. Often one'll find lanes move around (with pylons directing the flow), and the pavement conditions can vary wildly. So, I can see the argument. Plus: Hey, free money!

/Only took 15 comments for someone to read the article - not bad, considering this'll probably top 200
 
2012-12-13 09:27:06 AM  
Another reason for speed limit reductions in work zones is the work zone itself. Narrowed lanes, lane shifts, lane drops, dust and debris (to name a few). Just because there are no workers does not mean there is no danger.
 
2012-12-13 09:27:21 AM  
I don't have a problem with speed cameras per say. I do, however, have a problem when the government budgets revenue from speed cameras.

It should be a windfall. Otherwise, you're pretty much saying, "Yay, we need more people to break the law so that we can fine them!" If a law were created that made making fines as a source of revenue illegal, speed cameras would actually have their purpose: safety.

Why risk your police officers "cashing in" on mobsters, gangs, etc. when it's much safer and easier to ticket 1000-2000 citizens with a machine?
 
2012-12-13 09:27:39 AM  
I've got no problem with the tickets if the work zone is really a work zone, workers or no. But to me that means lane closures, concrete barriers, lanes that move in and out of the "shoulder" so they can get two lanes through instead of just one. I don't want someone blowing past me at 80 when the lanes are 8 feet wide and the right side of my car is 3 inches from a concrete divider.

Then you've got states like West Virginia where every few miles there's a work zone which consists entirely of two signs and traffic cones placed in the grass every 100 yards for a couple of miles. I be plenty pissed if I got a speeding ticket in one of those work zones.
 
2012-12-13 09:28:20 AM  

tuxq: Since road construction has no set hours of the day, how exactly do you propose the speed cameras work?


www.reuk.co.uk
 
2012-12-13 09:29:28 AM  

ZAZ: pag1107: I've always thought running one of those little white camera jeeps would make a great 2nd job. Sit there all evening reading a magazine or newspaper or book.

A guy in Arizona shot and killed a speed camera van occupant.


and nothing of value was lost.
 
2012-12-13 09:29:51 AM  
I'm looking at you I-20 on the east side of Alabama.

Let's lower the speed limit from 65 to 55 because we are thinking about widening the roadway. Oh sure, there are a few miles of actual construction between the Georgia line and Anniston. But we'll just lower the speed limit for the entire stretch.
 
2012-12-13 09:30:23 AM  

destrip: If speed was a real issue, they'd deploy measures to encourage people to slow down at the moment (rumble strips, an unoccupied cop car parked in the construction zone, a "your speed" radar sign, etc.), not something that sends them a ticket in the mail weeks after


They come in the mail 2 days later. Baltimore City wants its money ASAP!

The camera that caught me was in a school zone where the school is now defunct.
 
2012-12-13 09:30:31 AM  
What kills me are the work zones that remain in place long after the work has been completed. There's a stretch of I-75 south of Cincinnati that's marked a 55mph work zone even though the crews completed the work many months ago. The barrels and barriers have long since been removed. All that remains are the "work zone" and reduced speed limit signs.
 
2012-12-13 09:31:00 AM  

Carn: If you have a road crew in a dangerous area, put a cop there. It will be more effective and safer than a camera that the drivers may or may not know about. Once again, if it's about safety, a real human being police officer will get you there. If it's about just raising money and safety (or guilt) be damned, yay cameras!


You're right, but what happens when you get voted out of office for having to raise taxes, because you spent CITY TAXPAYER money for LAZY PIGS to sit on their asses all day watching over LAZY WETBACKS diggings ditches, and this AFTER you took away the revenue-GENERATING cameras that kept all the drunk BLACKS at bay?

/This is absurd, but someone, somewhere, will argue it.
 
2012-12-13 09:31:05 AM  

Joshua5: From the article:

But Tabacek says the state always wants people slowing down in work zones. Also, he said, "four out of five injuries that take place in work zones are to the motorists themselves."

So its for our safety during times when workers are not present.


I would imagine that traffic pattern change has something to do with it too...which is why I can see why motorists are the ones being injured more than the construction workers.
 
2012-12-13 09:32:12 AM  
Twigz221: This is what you get when you cut taxes. They have to find other ways to find revenue.

In MARYLAND, one of the most homoerotically liberal states in the union?!?!
 
2012-12-13 09:32:26 AM  

Pythagoras: I don't have a problem with speed cameras per say. I do, however, have a problem when the government budgets revenue from speed cameras.

It should be a windfall. Otherwise, you're pretty much saying, "Yay, we need more people to break the law so that we can fine them!" If a law were created that made making fines as a source of revenue illegal, speed cameras would actually have their purpose: safety.

Why risk your police officers "cashing in" on mobsters, gangs, etc. when it's much safer and easier to ticket 1000-2000 citizens with a machine?


I am all about the fines going to the state general fund rather than the specific locale where the automated ticket was issued.
 
2012-12-13 09:34:47 AM  

styckx: Are they seriously dumping a speed camera out on an interstate where 65mph is the speed limit and EVERY-SINGLE-PERSON is going over it and ticketing every single person that passes the camera? Seems overly dickish.


It's a work zone, so everyone around knows that there's likely to be a camera. They slow down accordingly. Also, the cameras don't ticket until you're 10 or more over., so you can still do 74 in that 65 mph zone and be just fine.
 
2012-12-13 09:36:12 AM  

arcas: What kills me are the work zones that remain in place long after the work has been completed. There's a stretch of I-75 south of Cincinnati that's marked a 55mph work zone even though the crews completed the work many months ago. The barrels and barriers have long since been removed. All that remains are the "work zone" and reduced speed limit signs.


Just south of Florence?
 
2012-12-13 09:39:30 AM  

Loomy: Carn: If you have a road crew in a dangerous area, put a cop there. It will be more effective and safer than a camera that the drivers may or may not know about. Once again, if it's about safety, a real human being police officer will get you there. If it's about just raising money and safety (or guilt) be damned, yay cameras!

You're right, but what happens when you get voted out of office for having to raise taxes, because you spent CITY TAXPAYER money for LAZY PIGS to sit on their asses all day watching over LAZY WETBACKS diggings ditches, and this AFTER you took away the revenue-GENERATING cameras that kept all the drunk BLACKS at bay?

/This is absurd, but someone, somewhere, will argue it.


You've just given them ideas...
 
2012-12-13 09:41:36 AM  

Joshua5: Also, he said, "four out of five injuries that take place in work zones are to the motorists themselves."


In non work zones, five out of five injuries are to the motorists themselves. Seems speeding in a work zone is proportionally safer for drivers.
 
2012-12-13 09:44:08 AM  

Carn: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?


Yeah, no; just because you don't see anyone working doesn't signify that there isn't anyone working. A work zone is a work zone 24 hours a day for that reason. They do a lot of things at night when there are less cars passing by. Blasting is almost exclusively done at night. Some work zones are only active at night.
 
2012-12-13 09:44:21 AM  

Endive Wombat: Pythagoras: I don't have a problem with speed cameras per say. I do, however, have a problem when the government budgets revenue from speed cameras.

It should be a windfall. Otherwise, you're pretty much saying, "Yay, we need more people to break the law so that we can fine them!" If a law were created that made making fines as a source of revenue illegal, speed cameras would actually have their purpose: safety.

Why risk your police officers "cashing in" on mobsters, gangs, etc. when it's much safer and easier to ticket 1000-2000 citizens with a machine?

I am all about the fines going to the state general fund rather than the specific locale where the automated ticket was issued.


A Maryland town that shall remain nameless gets 1/3 of its revenue from parking tickets. Makes it hard to cut back even if they want to.

The first taste is always free, then you're hooked...
 
2012-12-13 09:44:34 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: tuxq: Carn: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?

Since road construction has no set hours of the day, how exactly do you propose the speed cameras work? How inconvenient is it for people to do 55mph instead of 65? Honestly.

What is more dangerous?

1: Driving slower than the majority of motorists around you, thereby forcing the flow of traffic around you
2: Driving at a similar pace as the traffic around you

/cameras are for revenue, not safety


The cameras are set for travel 12 mph over the speed limit. That is more than enough of a cushion. If cameras were truly only for revenue, they would be set to trigger at a lower speed.
 
2012-12-13 09:49:37 AM  

gerbilpox: That's nuthin'. Another article on the same page:

City issued speed camera ticket to motionless car


That is great how he has to go to court tomorrow to clear this up. I hope doesn't have to miss work for this.
 
2012-12-13 09:54:25 AM  
There are some cameras on a new highway around here that seem to issue the same number of tickets every day even when they drop the speed limit by 20% but the cameras aren't set to the lower limit. There have been a few attempts to fix problem with the cameras in the past which would result in serious drops in the number of citations yet they claim the things have always worked correctly. The best part of the mess is that the camera operator has a contract that says if the state pulls the camera, they are due their cut of the revenue they would have earned which turns out to be three quarters of a billion dollars over 30 years.
 
2012-12-13 09:54:27 AM  

Knucklepopper: HindiDiscoMonster: tuxq: Carn: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?

Since road construction has no set hours of the day, how exactly do you propose the speed cameras work? How inconvenient is it for people to do 55mph instead of 65? Honestly.

What is more dangerous?

1: Driving slower than the majority of motorists around you, thereby forcing the flow of traffic around you
2: Driving at a similar pace as the traffic around you

/cameras are for revenue, not safety

The cameras are set for travel 12 mph over the speed limit. That is more than enough of a cushion. If cameras were truly only for revenue, they would be set to trigger at a lower speed.




The level is set because of calibration and legal concerns. It's not worth fighting over a few mph over the speed limit for those reasons.

My wife has been caught twice around 9pm on I-695 and she was only going 65mph, which is less than the 12mph cushion. It seems that they're imposing the reduced speed limit rules for the work zone when no work is going on there in addition to the general enforcement measures associated with speeding in a work zone.

Which means they are essentially just sneakily lowering the speed limit to levels even below the "safe" range for extended periods of time, and ticketing people via cameras and the mail.

fark that. This is about revenue.
 
2012-12-13 09:54:56 AM  

tuxq: Since road construction has no set hours of the day, how exactly do you propose the speed cameras work? How inconvenient is it for people to do 55mph instead of 65? Honestly


Seeing that the article does not state the speed limit. Lets say that its the normal speed limits (65 mph). If I got ticketed for going 65 in a work zone with no workers present, you're damn right I would be pissed off. No law was broken yet I would be ticketed cause the work zone speed limit when workers are present is 55 mph.
 
2012-12-13 10:02:12 AM  

iheartscotch: Carn: JosephFinn: Oh! Oh! Oh! Is it BECAUSE IT'S A DAMN WORK ZONE WITH EQUIPMENT AND HORSESHOES EVEN WHEN NO ONE IS AROUND?

God, speeders will find any justification for their bad behavior.

It's a work zone with no workers and no work being done. Kinda like parkway vs driveway?

Yeah, no; just because you don't see anyone working doesn't signify that there isn't anyone working. A work zone is a work zone 24 hours a day for that reason. They do a lot of things at night when there are less cars passing by. Blasting is almost exclusively done at night. Some work zones are only active at night.


He said "when no one is around", hence, my joke. I stand by everything I said about safety. Quietly tracking people's speed and then sending them a letter a couple days later does not make them slow down in the moment. A cop car with lights on sure as shiat does.
 
2012-12-13 10:05:47 AM  

iheartscotch


Yeah, no; just because you don't see anyone working doesn't signify that there isn't anyone working. A work zone is a work zone 24 hours a day for that reason. They do a lot of things at night when there are less cars passing by. Blasting is almost exclusively done at night. Some work zones are only active at night.


Actually that's exactly what it means. The 'work zone' idea is there (ostensibly) to keep the workers safe. No workers present = no work being done.

If they're working at night there is no reason to treat the location as a work zone during the day. A lot of school zones already work like this: no kids in school = no school zone.
 
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