BunkyBrewman: somedude210: Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

The problem with electronic voting is that you can very easily screw the results. Look at the "OMG, MY VOTE WENT TO OBAMA WHEN I HIT ROMNEY" stories. We still have paper ballots in MA (fill in the bubble, not punch the card) and we've never hit a snag. Maybe that will work in every state and not be a total fark up

/I don't trust e-voting
//Real paper trails FTW

Yes. Because printing a receipt for who you just voted for is too hard a technology to employ.

Cripes, if we can get a farking receipt for that Starbucks half double decaffeinated half-caf, with a twist of lemon coffee we just ordered, we can get one for a voting machine.

Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."

somedude210: Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

The problem with electronic voting is that you can very easily screw the results. Look at the "OMG, MY VOTE WENT TO OBAMA WHEN I HIT ROMNEY" stories. We still have paper ballots in MA (fill in the bubble, not punch the card) and we've never hit a snag. Maybe that will work in every state and not be a total fark up




Actually, I think that this post was based on the canard that anything the Obama administration says, the Republicans will back the opposite. So if you demand easily cheatable electronic voting machines on a very specific day, the Republicans will start allowing extended voting hours, better paper trails, etc. etc.

JerseyTim: Hey, let's not let Ohio off the hook here.

Karl is that you?

Has anyone noticed yet that the only states with "Trouble" on election day are either

1) Republican controlled, or

2) Full of blind old retirees who can't figure anything out?

chiefsfaninkc: Philip Francis Queeg: chiefsfaninkc: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.

Democracy needs to be dismantled and we need to go back to being a representative republic. Majority rule (Democracy) is BS and does not protect the rights of the individual. Unfortunately the School System has been telling children for far to long that the US is a Democracy and that Democracy is great. It is not in any way great.

So what changes would you like to see? Voting restricted to land owning white males?

How about they put Civics Classes bank in school. Oh they could also make high school kids take the same citizenship test that immigrants take like they used to as a requirement for graduation.. They could also test teachers on a early basis to make sure they are knowledgeable of the subject they teach and give them performance based evaluations instead of having to keep bad teachers around for years and years.

And that is "dismantling democracy"? Perhaps it is you who needs to brush up on your civics.

chiefsfaninkc: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.

Democracy needs to be dismantled and we need to go back to being a representative republic. Majority rule (Democracy) is BS and does not protect the rights of the individual. Unfortunately the School System has been telling children for far to long that the US is a Democracy and that Democracy is great. It is not in any way great.

So what changes would you like to see? Voting restricted to land owning white males?

Coolfusis: give me doughnuts: Coolfusis: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Welcome to the world of "at will" employment. You can be fired for any cause, or no cause at all.

"At will" still has to justify it to avoid unemployment payments. Justifying action due to poor performance or anything else requires written proof of action taken before the firing.

Don't believe me? Ask your HR people. Any employer trying something like that would be in for a shiatstorm, "at will" or not.

Here's a brief writeup on what an employer should know about "at-will" employment.

Philip Francis Queeg:
"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Employer in court: I fired the employee because of uncertainty due to the election. Plus he's a slacker. And he farks goats. His claims that he was fired due to the way he voted are baseless.
Judge: Employee, do you have any proof of your claim?
Employee: No, your honor, the statement was made verbally. And my goat farking never hurt my job performance.
Judge: Case dismissed. Employee to pay court costs.

It's required that the employer provide documentation for the firing, not the employee. If the employee makes a claim that he or she was fired because of racism, the employer must provide documentation that proves he or she was fired for lawful reasons. Even with that, ...

lol, it isn't required that your employer do jack shiat. I can fire you for nothing at all, provided I'm willing to pay unemployment... it is only if you want to collect UI that I don't want to pay that I'd have to show cause.

give me doughnuts: Coolfusis: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Welcome to the world of "at will" employment. You can be fired for any cause, or no cause at all.

"At will" still has to justify it to avoid unemployment payments. Justifying action due to poor performance or anything else requires written proof of action taken before the firing.

Don't believe me? Ask your HR people. Any employer trying something like that would be in for a shiatstorm, "at will" or not.

Here's a brief writeup on what an employer should know about "at-will" employment.

Philip Francis Queeg:
"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Employer in court: I fired the employee because of uncertainty due to the election. Plus he's a slacker. And he farks goats. His claims that he was fired due to the way he voted are baseless.
Judge: Employee, do you have any proof of your claim?
Employee: No, your honor, the statement was made verbally. And my goat farking never hurt my job performance.
Judge: Case dismissed. Employee to pay court costs.

It's required that the employer provide documentation for the firing, not the employee. If the employee makes a claim that he or she was fired because of racism, the employer must provide documentation that proves he or she was fired for lawful reasons. Even with that, the employee could easily find other workers who were asked the same question.

Also, any employer using the "uncertainty" as an excuse would still have to show the metric they used for firings. If you fired people because of Obama's re-election and all of them are liberals who voted for Obama, you'd better have some damn good evidence that you used an objective metric.

Now, this is all assuming that the employee is intelligent enough to get a copy of all the documents involved in the firing (numbered and dated) as well as a signed notice of when they were told they were being let go and when they were told to leave, to prevent the employer from trying to justify the action after the fact.

/living in Texas requires that you get very familiar with "at will" employment.

mrshowrules: lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

Pretty much how it works in Canada except there are also a few early voting days a week or two before the election.

Not one biatching or moaning about it up here so I assume it is working. It really isnt' rocket science.

Elections Canada does pretty well in general. It's non-partisan, procedures are the same for the whole country, the parties play a role in appointment of staff but the party in power can't easily dominate the process, and there are a number of ways to vote early or absentee. There are ID requirements, but they're generally fairly easy to meet (things like utility bills, a letter from a homeless shelter, and student IDs can count as one piece.) And someone who really doesn't have ID can be vouched for by another elector who swears an oath. Most of the shenanigans, like the robocall scandal, have nothing to do with the conduct of the election by Elections Canada. There can be localized problems, but in general our elections are fairly and efficiently conducted.

lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

Because it would require a Constitutional amendment.

Saiga410: Old enough to know better: HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."

Obvious solution: Big-ass trash cans outside the polling place. And make it illegal to force anyone to show you their receipt.

Obvious solution is a paper reciept that is held inside the machine. Have the printout be viewable through a window so that the voter can see the printout but not take. When voting is complete the paper spools forward so that the next person cannot see who the previous voter voted for. Rinse/repeat.

Or just have the election workers collect the paper copy in a sealed box like they do with Scantron ballots. Force a count using both the electronic and the paper ballots so you have automatic double-checking.

Aexia: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Vote buying and coercion.

However, having a receipt that can be printed, examined, then must be placed in a ballot box, would work very well. They shouldn't be allowed to leave the voting area though. The receipts, that is.

/let's just start by putting voting on Saturday and Sunday, 48 hours of "standard" voting, plus early time and vote by mail.

I've been saying this forever. The best solution is to have a nonpartisan agency that administers all elections through uniform standards nationwide. It would probably require a constitutional amendment, so that means it'll never happen. We can't have nice things, thanks to the South.

HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."

Obvious solution: Big-ass trash cans outside the polling place. And make it illegal to force anyone to show you their receipt.

Wellon Dowd: heavymetal: I would also like to see congressional districts drawn on as symmetrical geographical lines possible, population centers permitting. Have it done at random favoring no particular ideology by a computer. It would force congress people to be more accountable to their districts populace as a whole rather than just one particular group.

And/or, increase the size of the House of Representatives by an order of magnitude. Smaller districts means more homogenous districts, so the representative is more likely to represent the interests of his/her constituents.

You could also do larger districts but have multiple members represent each district. That would also likely have the advantage of blunting natural gerrymandering and pushing people to get the attention of more moderate candidates.

Coolfusis: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Employer in court: I fired the employee because of uncertainty due to the election. Plus he's a slacker. And he farks goats. His claims that he was fired due to the way he voted are baseless.
Judge: Employee, do you have any proof of your claim?
Employee: No, your honor, the statement was made verbally. And my goat farking never hurt my job performance.
Judge: Case dismissed. Employee to pay court costs.

NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Let's see the same scene without a receipt:


Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Did you voted for the candidate that we support?
Employee (lying like a bad rug): Of course sir.
Employer: Huh, well, there's no way I can check, so, carry on.

Having a full week of voting at a polling place and/or a full month of mail-in voting would go a long way toward making sure more people vote. Making Election Day a day where all employers are obligated by law to give themselves and their employees a day off would work too, b-b-but free market and such. Of course, "making sure more people vote" is directly against GOP core values so they will fight anything Democrats propose if it gives even a single little person a slightly better chance at voting on time.

Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Vote buying and coercion.

Oh, this should be good. The AG, whom Republitards already believe to be a demon incarnate, proposes to let the FEDERAL GUBMINT set standards on voting in the Presidential Election?

//Freeperville should be in flames by 10AM.

BunkyBrewman: somedude210: Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

The problem with electronic voting is that you can very easily screw the results. Look at the "OMG, MY VOTE WENT TO OBAMA WHEN I HIT ROMNEY" stories. We still have paper ballots in MA (fill in the bubble, not punch the card) and we've never hit a snag. Maybe that will work in every state and not be a total fark up

/I don't trust e-voting
//Real paper trails FTW

Yes. Because printing a receipt for who you just voted for is too hard a technology to employ.

Cripes, if we can get a farking receipt for that Starbucks half double decaffeinated half-caf, with a twist of lemon coffee we just ordered, we can get one for a voting machine.

Of course we CAN, but there's a good reason that it is illegal to do it.

/not defending the current state of voting machines

Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

Hey, FU asswit. Washington State had vote by mail with a 4 week open window, and we also had a paper trail AND 81% turnout of registered voters.

It isn't so damn difficult. You just put competent and non criminal people in charge.

Don't want a national mandate, we're doing just fine out here. Dumbasses back east can keep screwing the pooch, but if you guys drag us down to your level that would really suck.