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(Talking Points Memo)   Eric Holder suggests that maybe, just maybe, it's time that we have a national, unified voting standard so Florida doesn't keep farking up every single election   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 104
    More: Hero, Attorney General Eric Holder, John F. Kennedy Presidential Library, MacArthur Foundation, referendum, D-CA  
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2216 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Dec 2012 at 8:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 09:20:05 AM
Our voter alienation strategy needs to be unified and more organized.
 
2012-12-13 09:20:46 AM
I cannot think of any power the federal has to do this outside of the 14th and I do not think you could convince the court that all the states were/are racist jackholes.
 
2012-12-13 09:23:33 AM

HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."


Obvious solution: Big-ass trash cans outside the polling place. And make it illegal to force anyone to show you their receipt.
 
2012-12-13 09:23:42 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."


No and sort of. You're confusing right to work (which is about unions) with at-will employment. Under at-will employment you can be fired for any reason, but the employee can contest it to receive unemployment if the employer doesn't want to pay it. In your example, they can show how many pens they use, ask the standard, etc. Which is why you simply don't give a reason - you say that their services are no longer required and call it a day. They can't contest that.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:47 AM
I've been saying this forever. The best solution is to have a nonpartisan agency that administers all elections through uniform standards nationwide. It would probably require a constitutional amendment, so that means it'll never happen. We can't have nice things, thanks to the South.
 
2012-12-13 09:26:02 AM

Old enough to know better: HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."

Obvious solution: Big-ass trash cans outside the polling place. And make it illegal to force anyone to show you their receipt.


Obvious solution is a paper reciept that is held inside the machine. Have the printout be viewable through a window so that the voter can see the printout but not take. When voting is complete the paper spools forward so that the next person cannot see who the previous voter voted for. Rinse/repeat.
 
2012-12-13 09:28:13 AM

Aexia: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Vote buying and coercion.


However, having a receipt that can be printed, examined, then must be placed in a ballot box, would work very well. They shouldn't be allowed to leave the voting area though. The receipts, that is.

/let's just start by putting voting on Saturday and Sunday, 48 hours of "standard" voting, plus early time and vote by mail.
 
2012-12-13 09:29:40 AM

Saiga410: Old enough to know better: HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."

Obvious solution: Big-ass trash cans outside the polling place. And make it illegal to force anyone to show you their receipt.

Obvious solution is a paper reciept that is held inside the machine. Have the printout be viewable through a window so that the voter can see the printout but not take. When voting is complete the paper spools forward so that the next person cannot see who the previous voter voted for. Rinse/repeat.


Or just have the election workers collect the paper copy in a sealed box like they do with Scantron ballots. Force a count using both the electronic and the paper ballots so you have automatic double-checking.
 
2012-12-13 09:30:38 AM
Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?
 
2012-12-13 09:34:36 AM

lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?


Because it would require a Constitutional amendment.
 
2012-12-13 09:40:31 AM
We should outsource the voting to the Philippines.
 
2012-12-13 09:47:44 AM
This could make health care reform look easy, non-controversial, and historically insignificant.

Get it right, you bastards.
 
2012-12-13 09:52:18 AM
Throw in a constitutional right to vote while you're at it.
 
2012-12-13 09:56:05 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

Because it would require a Constitutional amendment.


It also presumes nobody moves, or that people diligently keep their records updated.

What's the problem with e-voting, with a paper receipt that gets printed and collected inside the polling place (as I'm fairly certain everywhere that requires a paper trail does it that way; or maybe I'm just thinking about the times I've done it), requiring polling places to have X stations per registered voter (in MD, I think it's 5 machines per voter per PP) and X number of poll workers per registered voter and having some sort of state-level apparatus to collect, sort, count, re-count, audit and re-re-count ballots as a single group rather than 6 old people with nothing better to do on a Tuesday night with a 3-year old glasses prescription?

Compare MD, which had very little trouble with lines under their "5 machines per voter" rule, to VA which has no minimum (some of the long-lined [and "heavily urban", curiously] places had 2 machines total in the place) and actually forbade by law any expenditures on the election sometime last year. Things like that (and better electronic voting - open source with collected receipts) would go farther than Federal standards.
 
2012-12-13 10:02:38 AM

Dr Dreidel: Philip Francis Queeg: lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

Because it would require a Constitutional amendment.

It also presumes nobody moves, or that people diligently keep their records updated.

What's the problem with e-voting, with a paper receipt that gets printed and collected inside the polling place (as I'm fairly certain everywhere that requires a paper trail does it that way; or maybe I'm just thinking about the times I've done it), requiring polling places to have X stations per registered voter (in MD, I think it's 5 machines per voter per PP) and X number of poll workers per registered voter and having some sort of state-level apparatus to collect, sort, count, re-count, audit and re-re-count ballots as a single group rather than 6 old people with nothing better to do on a Tuesday night with a 3-year old glasses prescription?

Compare MD, which had very little trouble with lines under their "5 machines per voter" rule, to VA which has no minimum (some of the long-lined [and "heavily urban", curiously] places had 2 machines total in the place) and actually forbade by law any expenditures on the election sometime last year. Things like that (and better electronic voting - open source with collected receipts) would go farther than Federal standards.


5 voting machines per voter seems kind of over kill.
 
2012-12-13 10:04:03 AM

Coolfusis: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"


Welcome to the world of "at will" employment. You can be fired for any cause, or no cause at all.
 
2012-12-13 10:04:17 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.


These dastardly, Snidely Whiplashish employers can't already coerce their clients vote absentee, requiring them to either fill out the ballot in their presence or photocopy the same for their inspection? Funny how we don't hear about that happening, like, ever.
 
2012-12-13 10:05:54 AM

give me doughnuts: Welcome to the world of "at will" employment. You can be fired for any cause, or no cause at all.


Not exactly. You can't be fired for bad cause.
 
2012-12-13 10:09:06 AM
For all of the people who were screaming before the election in favor of electoral college reform, you might inadvertently get it when the Rust Belt states start dividing their votes proportionately based on gerrymandered congressional districts.
 
2012-12-13 10:09:11 AM

sprawl15: No and sort of. You're confusing right to work (which is about unions) with at-will employment.


Right. I knew my brain was pinging the wrong thing as I was typing it.
 
2012-12-13 10:13:43 AM

Aexia: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Vote buying and coercion.


Then don't just print out how you voted, print out a code that you can look up online to prove that your vote was recorded correctly. I'll skip the tech details, but it easy to print out unique codes for each vote that can't be spoofed, can't be just guessed so you can see how someone voted, etc.

If an employer is going to fire you because you voted the wrong way, they can just as easily fire you based on your general political views, which they can find out pretty easily with modern data mining.

Really, this sounds like the voter-id arguments. There are very few actual cases of voter fraud (as apposed to election fraud) and there are very few cases of actual coercion. Coercion/vote buying can be done right now with absentee/mailed in ballots. It hasn't shown to be a problem anywhere near the size of election officials screwing up ballot boxes and such.
 
2012-12-13 10:16:10 AM

somedude210: Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

The problem with electronic voting is that you can very easily screw the results. Look at the "OMG, MY VOTE WENT TO OBAMA WHEN I HIT ROMNEY" stories. We still have paper ballots in MA (fill in the bubble, not punch the card) and we've never hit a snag. Maybe that will work in every state and not be a total fark up

/I don't trust e-voting
//Real paper trails FTW


I like the idea of having electronic voting, but having the machine give you two receipts, one of which you have to turn in as a paper backup.
 
2012-12-13 10:22:00 AM

LazarusLong42: However, having a receipt that can be printed, examined, then must be placed in a ballot box, would work very well. They shouldn't be allowed to leave the voting area though. The receipts, that is.


Completely agree with you there.
 
2012-12-13 10:22:34 AM

Summoner101: Dr Dreidel: Philip Francis Queeg: lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

Because it would require a Constitutional amendment.

It also presumes nobody moves, or that people diligently keep their records updated.

What's the problem with e-voting, with a paper receipt that gets printed and collected inside the polling place (as I'm fairly certain everywhere that requires a paper trail does it that way; or maybe I'm just thinking about the times I've done it), requiring polling places to have X stations per registered voter (in MD, I think it's 5 machines per voter per PP) and X number of poll workers per registered voter and having some sort of state-level apparatus to collect, sort, count, re-count, audit and re-re-count ballots as a single group rather than 6 old people with nothing better to do on a Tuesday night with a 3-year old glasses prescription?

Compare MD, which had very little trouble with lines under their "5 machines per voter" rule, to VA which has no minimum (some of the long-lined [and "heavily urban", curiously] places had 2 machines total in the place) and actually forbade by law any expenditures on the election sometime last year. Things like that (and better electronic voting - open source with collected receipts) would go farther than Federal standards.

5 voting machines per voter seems kind of over kill.


For MD District 8, which had 343,000 voters in the last election? For 13 hours of voting (7am-8pm, IIRC), that means you need to process ~26,300 ballots every hour. If filling out the ballot takes 10-15 minutes...eh, someone else do the math.

There's a lot of people in MD-8.

Maybe 5 per is probably not the best solution nationwide, but that's why I said "X per voter". So long as there is some minimum standard between "1 machine for the whole state" and "1 machine per voter per precinct" that makes sense and doesn't mean lots of wasted inventory (hell, repurpose some state-owned tablets into voting machines, then remove/replace the HDs after November and sell them as refurbs), it's a good rule.
 
2012-12-13 10:24:03 AM

Old enough to know better: HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."

Obvious solution: Big-ass trash cans outside the polling place. And make it illegal to force anyone to show you their receipt.


I'm not saying Canada has all the answers - in fact, we get things wrong a lot.

But printing out electronic voting receipts on a strip of Fruit Roll-Up was an inspired solution. (In the last election, since I voted NDP, I got Sicilian Orange flavor. I've heard Liberal is Strawberry Cream and Conservative is Wild Blueberry Tango.)
 
2012-12-13 10:39:26 AM
I can't recommend this doc enough. Link
 
2012-12-13 11:01:00 AM

Saiga410: Obvious solution is a paper reciept that is held inside the machine. Have the printout be viewable through a window so that the voter can see the printout but not take. When voting is complete the paper spools forward so that the next person cannot see who the previous voter voted for. Rinse/repeat.


No. You could rig a machine to electronically enter the vote for A, but print a receipt for B, and the only way you'd know something was amiss would be if it was a closely challenged election. Because neither was the direct result of action by the voter without some machine interpretation, you might not even necessarily know which one is the real vote.

A paper ballot that is manually filled out, then read by a machine for counting purposes, with the ballot itself retained until the election is certified is the best way. It is much harder to stuff a ballot box if you have to do it manually instead of by some subtle, clever programming higgery-jiggery of a black box.
 
2012-12-13 11:07:27 AM
Given who is suggesting it and knowing his track record?

Absolutely not.
 
2012-12-13 11:13:10 AM

lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?


Pretty much how it works in Canada except there are also a few early voting days a week or two before the election.

Not one biatching or moaning about it up here so I assume it is working. It really isnt' rocket science.
 
2012-12-13 11:13:40 AM

randomjsa: Given who is suggesting it and knowing his track record?

Absolutely not.


He does have a long history of being black and associating with other known blacks.
 
2012-12-13 11:19:47 AM

dittybopper: Saiga410: Obvious solution is a paper reciept that is held inside the machine. Have the printout be viewable through a window so that the voter can see the printout but not take. When voting is complete the paper spools forward so that the next person cannot see who the previous voter voted for. Rinse/repeat.

No. You could rig a machine to electronically enter the vote for A, but print a receipt for B, and the only way you'd know something was amiss would be if it was a closely challenged election.


Assuming the receipt was kept in the machine or given to the poll workers, you'd catch that pretty quickly by running a random sample. If the counting is done by poll workers (as it should be), it would also be very difficult to find enough corrupt people that a random sample wouldn't catch it.

Electronic voting machines should be required to make a paper receipt, which is kept at the voting station.
 
2012-12-13 11:29:01 AM

randomjsa: Given who is suggesting it and knowing his track record?

Absolutely not.


What is is his track record? One dumb law enforcement operation (which he ended) linked to the death of an officer makes him a failure? Did you know that there are nearly 500 agencies under the Department of Justice. A single failed operation in a single agency is considered a failure to you? That is because you are a partisan shill.

I'm not saying Holder was good or bad but either way, you would think there would be some more objective criteria than a single fark up.
 
2012-12-13 11:38:15 AM

somedude210: Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

The problem with electronic voting is that you can very easily screw the results. Look at the "OMG, MY VOTE WENT TO OBAMA WHEN I HIT ROMNEY" stories. We still have paper ballots in MA (fill in the bubble, not punch the card) and we've never hit a snag. Maybe that will work in every state and not be a total fark up

/I don't trust e-voting
//Real paper trails FTW


Look the same people that make voting machine make ATMs. So why not have the damn thing, instead of electronically recording your vote simply print out a piece of paper that states who and what you voted for in plain english, and then as a bar code scan. If you are happy with your vote you feed it into a slot that scans the bar code (and prints out the results on a screen like a supermarket self check aisle) and then captures the paper ballot for recount purposes
 
2012-12-13 12:02:56 PM

randomjsa: Given who is suggesting it and knowing his track record?

Absolutely not.


What, you think he's gonna sell the votes to Mexican drug cartels and then not track them to see where they show up later?

I'm curious what part of his record invalidates, in your mind, his notion that a unified national voting standard might help reduce voting problems.
 
2012-12-13 12:23:41 PM

mrshowrules: lucksi: Everyone is automatically registered to vote. When election time comes, you get your voting invitation (like a month early). At the voting place, they have a list of everyone who is registered and cross it out against your invitation. You get a piece of paper to anonymously vote on using a pencil. Voting is on a single day and that is from 8am to 8pm on a sunday.

WHY IS THAT SUCH A HARD THING TO DO?

Pretty much how it works in Canada except there are also a few early voting days a week or two before the election.

Not one biatching or moaning about it up here so I assume it is working. It really isnt' rocket science.


Elections Canada does pretty well in general. It's non-partisan, procedures are the same for the whole country, the parties play a role in appointment of staff but the party in power can't easily dominate the process, and there are a number of ways to vote early or absentee. There are ID requirements, but they're generally fairly easy to meet (things like utility bills, a letter from a homeless shelter, and student IDs can count as one piece.) And someone who really doesn't have ID can be vouched for by another elector who swears an oath. Most of the shenanigans, like the robocall scandal, have nothing to do with the conduct of the election by Elections Canada. There can be localized problems, but in general our elections are fairly and efficiently conducted.
 
2012-12-13 12:41:30 PM

Magorn: somedude210: Therion: Holder needs to propose that ALL voting is to be done electronically on Election Day only.

That's the only way we're ever going to see extended voting with a verifiable paper trail.

The problem with electronic voting is that you can very easily screw the results. Look at the "OMG, MY VOTE WENT TO OBAMA WHEN I HIT ROMNEY" stories. We still have paper ballots in MA (fill in the bubble, not punch the card) and we've never hit a snag. Maybe that will work in every state and not be a total fark up

/I don't trust e-voting
//Real paper trails FTW

Look the same people that make voting machine make ATMs. So why not have the damn thing, instead of electronically recording your vote simply print out a piece of paper that states who and what you voted for in plain english, and then as a bar code scan. If you are happy with your vote you feed it into a slot that scans the bar code (and prints out the results on a screen like a supermarket self check aisle) and then captures the paper ballot for recount purposes


good idea but too complicated. The problem you have is that things become too complicated to work with the populace. You make it too smart and complex and you turn off people from voting because of the work involved. Paper ballots are simple and easy to deal with. Just unify the paper ballot system and be done with it
 
2012-12-13 12:48:36 PM

somedude210: You make it too smart and complex and you turn off people from voting because of the work involved


We seriously need to have pictures on the ballots. I dont have no time for all this read'n stuff.
 
2012-12-13 01:20:43 PM

BunkyBrewman: somedude210: Therion:

Cripes, if we can get a farking receipt for that Starbucks half double decaffeinated half-caf, with a twist of lemon coffee we just ordered, we can get one for a voting machine.


i.ytimg.com
 
2012-12-13 01:27:31 PM

give me doughnuts: Coolfusis: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Welcome to the world of "at will" employment. You can be fired for any cause, or no cause at all.


"At will" still has to justify it to avoid unemployment payments. Justifying action due to poor performance or anything else requires written proof of action taken before the firing.

Don't believe me? Ask your HR people. Any employer trying something like that would be in for a shiatstorm, "at will" or not.

Here's a brief writeup on what an employer should know about "at-will" employment.

Philip Francis Queeg:
"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Employer in court: I fired the employee because of uncertainty due to the election. Plus he's a slacker. And he farks goats. His claims that he was fired due to the way he voted are baseless.
Judge: Employee, do you have any proof of your claim?
Employee: No, your honor, the statement was made verbally. And my goat farking never hurt my job performance.
Judge: Case dismissed. Employee to pay court costs.


It's required that the employer provide documentation for the firing, not the employee. If the employee makes a claim that he or she was fired because of racism, the employer must provide documentation that proves he or she was fired for lawful reasons. Even with that, the employee could easily find other workers who were asked the same question.

Also, any employer using the "uncertainty" as an excuse would still have to show the metric they used for firings. If you fired people because of Obama's re-election and all of them are liberals who voted for Obama, you'd better have some damn good evidence that you used an objective metric.

Now, this is all assuming that the employee is intelligent enough to get a copy of all the documents involved in the firing (numbered and dated) as well as a signed notice of when they were told they were being let go and when they were told to leave, to prevent the employer from trying to justify the action after the fact.

/living in Texas requires that you get very familiar with "at will" employment.
 
2012-12-13 02:24:15 PM
I think Obama should require that everyone get a barcode tatoo'd on them that can be scaned in order to vote........it would certainly eliminate the black helicopter and the right wing religious nut votes.
 
2012-12-13 02:35:31 PM

Coolfusis: give me doughnuts: Coolfusis: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Welcome to the world of "at will" employment. You can be fired for any cause, or no cause at all.

"At will" still has to justify it to avoid unemployment payments. Justifying action due to poor performance or anything else requires written proof of action taken before the firing.

Don't believe me? Ask your HR people. Any employer trying something like that would be in for a shiatstorm, "at will" or not.

Here's a brief writeup on what an employer should know about "at-will" employment.

Philip Francis Queeg:
"AWESOME! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon to negotiate my absurdly large lawsuit, but until then, enjoy paying me to take a vacation!"

Employer in court: I fired the employee because of uncertainty due to the election. Plus he's a slacker. And he farks goats. His claims that he was fired due to the way he voted are baseless.
Judge: Employee, do you have any proof of your claim?
Employee: No, your honor, the statement was made verbally. And my goat farking never hurt my job performance.
Judge: Case dismissed. Employee to pay court costs.

It's required that the employer provide documentation for the firing, not the employee. If the employee makes a claim that he or she was fired because of racism, the employer must provide documentation that proves he or she was fired for lawful reasons. Even with that, ...


lol, it isn't required that your employer do jack shiat. I can fire you for nothing at all, provided I'm willing to pay unemployment... it is only if you want to collect UI that I don't want to pay that I'd have to show cause.
 
2012-12-13 03:50:27 PM
I think both parties will agree the results should be whatever they feel like reading off of the teleprompter.
 
2012-12-13 03:56:54 PM

somedude210: Gulper Eel: Because that's just what every of the hundred of thousands of races for school board, county comptroller and village dogcatcher need is more federal involvement.

This won't turn into an insanely expensive, unwieldy train wreck at all.

First, before any more grandiose plans out of Washington, make Election Day a holiday and pull Columbus Day off the calendar.

so focus on presidential elections only. Only happens once every four years and the state elections, they don't touch except to enforce voting rights laws


Well, elections of federal officeholders, so as to include both houses of Congress. It could be worded as "all elective offices established by the Constitution." The dog catchers can compete for the job in a sack race or something.
 
2012-12-13 04:01:40 PM
Fark that less people really need to be voting. If you cant't name the 3 branches of government an who your current representatives are in the house and senate you have no business voting.
 
2012-12-13 04:05:17 PM
Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.
 
2012-12-13 04:05:33 PM

HotWingConspiracy: NateAsbestos: Philip Francis Queeg: atomic-age: Having everyone walk out of the polling place with a piece of paper documenting who they voted for is a fantastically bad idea.

why?

Employer: Hey there employee, Did you vote?
Employee: Yes sir.
Employer: Let's see if you voted for the candidate that we support. Hand over your receipt.
Employee hands over receipt
Employer: Huh, it looks like you voted for that Kenyan Marxist. We told you there would be consequences for that. Clean out your desk.

Such a thing is already illegal. Why would the receipt make a difference?

Can't you get fired for any reason your employer dreams up in right to work states?

"You're firing me because of how I voted?"

"No, you used too many pens this year. Get the fark out."


Because obviously companies are currently run by lunatics who are avidly looking to ideologically purge their payrolls, but have been unable to do so because they feel it would be wrong to do it without the hard proof of a receipt.

Tonight on Ric Romero: crazy political extremists don't actually require rigorous empirical scrutiny to justify their actions.
 
2012-12-13 04:16:29 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.


Democracy needs to be dismantled and we need to go back to being a representative republic. Majority rule (Democracy) is BS and does not protect the rights of the individual. Unfortunately the School System has been telling children for far to long that the US is a Democracy and that Democracy is great. It is not in any way great.
 
2012-12-13 04:31:18 PM

chiefsfaninkc: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.

Democracy needs to be dismantled and we need to go back to being a representative republic. Majority rule (Democracy) is BS and does not protect the rights of the individual. Unfortunately the School System has been telling children for far to long that the US is a Democracy and that Democracy is great. It is not in any way great.


So what changes would you like to see? Voting restricted to land owning white males?
 
2012-12-13 04:53:36 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: chiefsfaninkc: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.

Democracy needs to be dismantled and we need to go back to being a representative republic. Majority rule (Democracy) is BS and does not protect the rights of the individual. Unfortunately the School System has been telling children for far to long that the US is a Democracy and that Democracy is great. It is not in any way great.

So what changes would you like to see? Voting restricted to land owning white males?


How about they put Civics Classes bank in school. Oh they could also make high school kids take the same citizenship test that immigrants take like they used to as a requirement for graduation.. They could also test teachers on a early basis to make sure they are knowledgeable of the subject they teach and give them performance based evaluations instead of having to keep bad teachers around for years and years.
 
2012-12-13 04:57:07 PM

chiefsfaninkc: Philip Francis Queeg: chiefsfaninkc: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Looong overdue.

Of course, the GOP is facing extinction in the absence of shenanigans so they'll keep the base looking for black helicopters while they continue to dismantle democracy.

Democracy needs to be dismantled and we need to go back to being a representative republic. Majority rule (Democracy) is BS and does not protect the rights of the individual. Unfortunately the School System has been telling children for far to long that the US is a Democracy and that Democracy is great. It is not in any way great.

So what changes would you like to see? Voting restricted to land owning white males?

How about they put Civics Classes bank in school. Oh they could also make high school kids take the same citizenship test that immigrants take like they used to as a requirement for graduation.. They could also test teachers on a early basis to make sure they are knowledgeable of the subject they teach and give them performance based evaluations instead of having to keep bad teachers around for years and years.


And that is "dismantling democracy"? Perhaps it is you who needs to brush up on your civics.
 
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