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(Washington Post)   Democrats: You wanna bring on the debt limit? You really want to go there? Run the risk of destroying our economy and hurt your backers? Really? BRING IT ON   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 82
    More: Cool, debt limit  
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4192 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Dec 2012 at 8:56 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 08:12:01 AM  
Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.
 
2012-12-13 08:20:26 AM  
The linchpin of the Republican argument is that the debt limit represents their only leverage to curb your insatiable spending appetites - the only way to deny you a blank check that soaks the nation in debt.

ok, look - I think it's great that the GOP is trying to deal with the emotional impact of their devastating losses in the past election...but c'mon guys! one of the reasons you lost so badly was because you started believing your own press releases! being whiny crybabies and/or petulant children is NOT going to help you regain lost ground in 2014.

stop trying to use this issue to punish the President for getting re-elected. most of the country DOES NOT believe anything you guys say right now. we all watched Romney lie like a motherf*cker in order to beat Obama and none of us fell for it. what makes you think we aren't watching you all lie your asses off about this 'fiscal cliff' deal...? has it occurred to any of you that maybe we're still fact checking your bullshiat? stop lying!
 
2012-12-13 08:39:39 AM  

Weaver95: The linchpin of the Republican argument is that the debt limit represents their only leverage to curb your insatiable spending appetites - the only way to deny you a blank check that soaks the nation in debt.

ok, look - I think it's great that the GOP is trying to deal with the emotional impact of their devastating losses in the past election...but c'mon guys! one of the reasons you lost so badly was because you started believing your own press releases! being whiny crybabies and/or petulant children is NOT going to help you regain lost ground in 2014.

stop trying to use this issue to punish the President for getting re-elected. most of the country DOES NOT believe anything you guys say right now. we all watched Romney lie like a motherf*cker in order to beat Obama and none of us fell for it. what makes you think we aren't watching you all lie your asses off about this 'fiscal cliff' deal...? has it occurred to any of you that maybe we're still fact checking your bullshiat? stop lying!


Guess we got the answer to whether Republicans would learn to listen to anyone from outside their base support after the election debacle.....

Figure it out. You figure it out.
 
2012-12-13 09:01:12 AM  
BRING IT ON MOTHERFARKERS!!!!
 
2012-12-13 09:02:04 AM  
BRING IT ON Please proceed

Challenges from Democrats are not particularly loud or aggressive. Just be careful not to fall into the trap.
 
2012-12-13 09:03:28 AM  
Man, I can only hope this epic meltdown of the Repubs continues through at least 2014..then (in theory) they can purge the nutjobs and become a legitimate political party again. We need at LEAST 2 adults in the room...
 
2012-12-13 09:05:39 AM  
The best part of these debates is the GOP whining that they're not getting the deal the President offered during the debt ceiling debate. It's like they don't understand they no longer have the same leverage they did before in these present negotiations.

It makes me happy because they're eating crow, or at least should be if they could feel embarrassment, for pushing off what they could have had because they were just SO SURE they were going to pick up so many seats in the election rather than losing seats.
 
2012-12-13 09:07:27 AM  
Hold on a moment. I've been told for months now that if we don't defuse the austerity bomb that was armed during the last debt ceiling debacle, the nation is going to plunge into another recession. Now I'm being told that if we need to use the debt ceiling to arm another austerity bomb because we need it to avoid plunging into a recession. So which is it, GOP? Is austerity good or bad for the country?
 
2012-12-13 09:09:30 AM  
Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.
 
2012-12-13 09:09:46 AM  
The GOP has only until Wednesday* to pass something -- ANYTHING -- that can't be killed by pocket-veto. And even then, they don't have enough votes to override a "regular" veto (and will have even less votes once 3 Jan rolls around), so they can't just push through a bill that says something like "No taxes for rich people and 0bama is a great-big-poopy-head" and expect President Obama to sign it.

/*Tuesday, if Christmas Day is not counted for the 10-day time limit for pocket vetoes
//said time limit does not include Sundays
 
2012-12-13 09:09:57 AM  
This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.
 
2012-12-13 09:11:01 AM  

Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.


Sometimes it's good being overseas. I get most of my news from Al-Jazeera and BBC now, and I hear about things I would never hear about if I were back in the states. Doha was covered pretty extensively by them.
 
2012-12-13 09:11:07 AM  
"We're not going to let Obama borrow any more money .... until we fix this country from becoming Greece," said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.c) in a typical blast Monday on Fox News. "Every big idea he has is a liberal idea that drowns us in debt."

And this is why there is absolutely no merit in listening to anything a Republican says anymore. They are strictly fact-free.
 
2012-12-13 09:11:39 AM  
GOP as Citizen: Yeah, I pay my mortgage, which has interest that accrues each cycle.

GOP as Politician: WTF do you mean we have to agree to pay the interest on the national debt that accrues each cycle?
 
2012-12-13 09:11:44 AM  

theknuckler_33: This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.


A new poll has 61% of Republicans supporting raising taxes on the wealthy as part of a deal. Even their base thinks they are nuts.
 
2012-12-13 09:13:32 AM  
www.aidthoughts.org
"COME ON, LET'S GET NUTS!"
 
2012-12-13 09:13:34 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: theknuckler_33: This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.

A new poll has 61% of Republicans supporting raising taxes on the wealthy as part of a deal. Even their base thinks they are nuts.


Grover Norquist has the House GOP by the balls and won't let go. One man may bring down a party.

//champagne all around, Farkers
 
2012-12-13 09:15:10 AM  
If we had an electorate nuanced enough to understand this move the teabaggers wouldn't have been voted into office in the first place.

We deliberately sent a freshmen group to DC with the stated goals of crashing the govt and now, surprises of surprises, we're getting what we asked for.
 
2012-12-13 09:15:16 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: theknuckler_33: This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.

A new poll has 61% of Republicans supporting raising taxes on the wealthy as part of a deal. Even their base thinks they are nuts.


RINOs aren't their 'base'. ;-)
 
2012-12-13 09:18:05 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: theknuckler_33: This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.

A new poll has 61% of Republicans supporting raising taxes on the wealthy as part of a deal. Even their base thinks they are nuts.


the hardcore tea types will never forgive them. It looks like it's going to happen so I wonder what exactly the tea party will do. I'm sure they'll continue to try to primary out any R who let the tax hike happen, but I wonder if they'll stay home or maybe vote against old guard GOP in an election...or perhaps splinter off and start their own party. Any one of those would work for me.
 
2012-12-13 09:18:34 AM  
What has the GOP learned from their recent ass whooping at the hands of the Obama Administration?

Nothing... They have learned nothing.

That makes me smile as, at this point, I'd rather let the Democrats control everything then let a party, which has become nothing but an insurgent outlier, hold everything up and put the country in a worse financial mess for their own selfish, partisan ideology.

I've said it before, but you can take every single Republican, put them on a barge, float it out into the Atlantic, and scuttle it for all I care anymore. There is nothing redeemable about the GOP, at the moment.
 
2012-12-13 09:19:41 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: theknuckler_33: This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.

A new poll has 61% of Republicans supporting raising taxes on the wealthy as part of a deal. Even their base thinks they are nuts.


Which means, in turn, that 39% of Republicans don't support raising taxes on the wealthy. That 39% includes the True Believers, who were the people who gave Bush a 28% approval rating in December 2008 and who decided a month earlier that they would vote for Not Obama in 2012.

Their base (read:the True Believers) won't think the GOP is nuts unless they DO include tax hikes for the rich as part of the deal, even if the "tax hikes" are nothing more than the expiration of the "temporary" Bush tax cuts.
 
2012-12-13 09:20:04 AM  

theknuckler_33: Philip Francis Queeg: theknuckler_33: This is a no-win for the GOP. If they don't make concessions, the American people will only further blame them for going over the fiscal cliff and if they do make concessions, their base will vilify them. Congratulations douchebags, you've backed yourselves into a corner. I expect them to lash out just as any cornered animal would. This won't be pretty.

A new poll has 61% of Republicans supporting raising taxes on the wealthy as part of a deal. Even their base thinks they are nuts.

RINOs aren't their 'base'. ;-)


Unfortunately, you're not that far off from the truth. Their real base is people like the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:00 AM  

Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.


static5.businessinsider.com

74% of Americans will blame the democrats.
 
2012-12-13 09:24:59 AM  
i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-13 09:25:07 AM  
Fark it! Were going over the cliff!!

res.sys-con.com
 
2012-12-13 09:25:35 AM  
Sadly, this is just an overzealous columnist. Won't happen.
 
2012-12-13 09:25:53 AM  
1-2knockout.typepad.com
 
2012-12-13 09:26:56 AM  

Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.


You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?
 
2012-12-13 09:27:49 AM  

Summoner101: The best part of these debates is the GOP whining that they're not getting the deal the President offered during the debt ceiling debate. It's like they don't understand they no longer have the same leverage they did before in these present negotiations.


It's like they've never seen the Godfather. Sure, last year, you could fark around with Obama and behave like little children. But now that he's going back to renegotiate with a re-election he can put a gun to your head. You can either raise taxes on some people, or be responsible for raising taxes on a lot of people with the added 'screw you' of letting Obama take all the credit when new cuts are made.
 
2012-12-13 09:28:37 AM  

Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?


their districts are so heavily gerrymandered that they could eat a baby on live tv and still get re-elected.
 
2012-12-13 09:32:09 AM  

Hobodeluxe: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

their districts are so heavily gerrymandered that they could eat a baby on live tv and still get re-elected.


Especially a brown baby.

/I'll just be over here
 
2012-12-13 09:33:17 AM  

Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?


And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.
 
2012-12-13 09:39:42 AM  

Frozboz: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.


Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.
 
2012-12-13 09:43:22 AM  

coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.


Typical Republican strategies for winning elections: fudge the numbers, change the rules mid-game, gerrymander here and there, stop at no lengths to keep those people from voting

Typical Democratic strategy for winning elections: let every vote count
 
2012-12-13 09:44:34 AM  

Weaver95: The linchpin of the Republican argument is that the debt limit represents their only leverage to curb your insatiable spending appetites - the only way to deny you a blank check that soaks the nation in debt.

ok, look - I think it's great that the GOP is trying to deal with the emotional impact of their devastating losses in the past election...but c'mon guys! one of the reasons you lost so badly was because you started believing your own press releases! being whiny crybabies and/or petulant children is NOT going to help you regain lost ground in 2014.

stop trying to use this issue to punish the President for getting re-elected. most of the country DOES NOT believe anything you guys say right now. we all watched Romney lie like a motherf*cker in order to beat Obama and none of us fell for it. what makes you think we aren't watching you all lie your asses off about this 'fiscal cliff' deal...? has it occurred to any of you that maybe we're still fact checking your bullshiat? stop lying!


Please. This is concern trolling at best, but more likely is simply a malicious attempt to sabotage the conservative movement. Do you really think we're going to take advice from our enemies? And by not voting for the GOP, the American people have demonstrated that they are our enemies.

It is sad that so many people will vote for government-granted goodies for themselves, knowing full well that their ill-gotten gains are paid for by stealing from their hard-working, productive, job-creating betters, in the name of "fairness". Taxation is not fairness, it is government thievery.
 
2012-12-13 09:46:57 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Weaver95: The linchpin of the Republican argument is that the debt limit represents their only leverage to curb your insatiable spending appetites - the only way to deny you a blank check that soaks the nation in debt.

ok, look - I think it's great that the GOP is trying to deal with the emotional impact of their devastating losses in the past election...but c'mon guys! one of the reasons you lost so badly was because you started believing your own press releases! being whiny crybabies and/or petulant children is NOT going to help you regain lost ground in 2014.

stop trying to use this issue to punish the President for getting re-elected. most of the country DOES NOT believe anything you guys say right now. we all watched Romney lie like a motherf*cker in order to beat Obama and none of us fell for it. what makes you think we aren't watching you all lie your asses off about this 'fiscal cliff' deal...? has it occurred to any of you that maybe we're still fact checking your bullshiat? stop lying!

Please. This is concern trolling at best, but more likely is simply a malicious attempt to sabotage the conservative movement. Do you really think we're going to take advice from our enemies? And by not voting for the GOP, the American people have demonstrated that they are our enemies.

It is sad that so many people will vote for government-granted goodies for themselves, knowing full well that their ill-gotten gains are paid for by stealing from their hard-working, productive, job-creating betters, in the name of "fairness". Taxation is not fairness, it is government thievery.


My Poe's Law detector just broke itself.
 
2012-12-13 09:49:27 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Please. This is concern trolling at best, but more likely is simply a malicious attempt to sabotage the conservative movement. Do you really think we're going to take advice from our enemies? And by not voting for the GOP, the American people have demonstrated that they are our enemies.

It is sad that so many people will vote for government-granted goodies for themselves, knowing full well that their ill-gotten gains are paid for by stealing from their hard-working, productive, job-creating betters, in the name of "fairness". Taxation is not fairness, it is government thievery.


Enjoy being on the continually marginalized fringe. You should go galt. That'll teach us.
 
2012-12-13 09:50:32 AM  

coeyagi: Frozboz: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.

Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.


I think probably the only counter to that would be to get rid of the EC and just go with a popular vote.
 
2012-12-13 09:53:26 AM  

Serious Black: My Poe's Law detector just broke itself.


Sorry. I forgot to include this:

I weep for America. The British Empire, the Soviet Union, the Japanese Empire and Hitler's Third Reich couldn't destroy us --- but we've done it to ourselves.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-13 09:55:05 AM  

EyeballKid: Typical Democratic strategy for winning elections: let every vote count


Just like Stalin.
 
2012-12-13 09:55:16 AM  
The republican-controlled House controls spending bills. The debt ceiling is just a way of coming up with the credit to pay for the stuff the republicans spent. Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.
 
2012-12-13 09:55:16 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Serious Black: My Poe's Law detector just broke itself.

Sorry. I forgot to include this:

I weep for America. The British Empire, the Soviet Union, the Japanese Empire and Hitler's Third Reich couldn't destroy us --- but we've done it to ourselves.

[i.imgur.com image 135x160]


I love you man.
 
2012-12-13 10:00:11 AM  

EyeballKid: [www.aidthoughts.org image 300x163]
"COME ON, LET'S GET NUTS!"


Tell me, Obama - you ever dance with the Derpil in the pale moonlight?
 
2012-12-13 10:01:04 AM  

theknuckler_33: Parthenogenetic: Please. This is concern trolling at best, but more likely is simply a malicious attempt to sabotage the conservative movement. Do you really think we're going to take advice from our enemies? And by not voting for the GOP, the American people have demonstrated that they are our enemies.

It is sad that so many people will vote for government-granted goodies for themselves, knowing full well that their ill-gotten gains are paid for by stealing from their hard-working, productive, job-creating betters, in the name of "fairness". Taxation is not fairness, it is government thievery.

Enjoy being on the continually marginalized fringe. You should go galt. That'll teach us.


Serious Black: Parthenogenetic: Weaver95: The linchpin of the Republican argument is that the debt limit represents their only leverage to curb your insatiable spending appetites - the only way to deny you a blank check that soaks the nation in debt.

ok, look - I think it's great that the GOP is trying to deal with the emotional impact of their devastating losses in the past election...but c'mon guys! one of the reasons you lost so badly was because you started believing your own press releases! being whiny crybabies and/or petulant children is NOT going to help you regain lost ground in 2014.

stop trying to use this issue to punish the President for getting re-elected. most of the country DOES NOT believe anything you guys say right now. we all watched Romney lie like a motherf*cker in order to beat Obama and none of us fell for it. what makes you think we aren't watching you all lie your asses off about this 'fiscal cliff' deal...? has it occurred to any of you that maybe we're still fact checking your bullshiat? stop lying!

Please. This is concern trolling at best, but more likely is simply a malicious attempt to sabotage the conservative movement. Do you really think we're going to take advice from our enemies? And by not voting for the GOP, the American people have demonstrated that they are our enemies.

It is sad that so many people will vote for government-granted goodies for themselves, knowing full well that their ill-gotten gains are paid for by stealing from their hard-working, productive, job-creating betters, in the name of "fairness". Taxation is not fairness, it is government thievery.

My Poe's Law detector just broke itself.


Seems to have broken theknuckler's too.
 
2012-12-13 10:03:16 AM  

DeaH: The republican-controlled House controls spending bills. The debt ceiling is just a way of coming up with the credit to pay for the stuff the republicans spent. Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.


This.

If Republicans want to control the spending, the place to do it is in appropriations, which right now consists of a bunch of continuing resolutions. Don't want to increase our debt? Stop appropriating the goddamn money.

I believe we need a new national poll test, consisting of one question:

"Do you believe refusing to increase America's debt ceiling constitutes a fiscally responsible move?" Anyone who answers "yes" is irrevocably denied all political rights.
 
2012-12-13 10:05:47 AM  

Generation_D: Weaver95: The linchpin of the Republican argument is that the debt limit represents their only leverage to curb your insatiable spending appetites - the only way to deny you a blank check that soaks the nation in debt.

ok, look - I think it's great that the GOP is trying to deal with the emotional impact of their devastating losses in the past election..

Yeah, about the devastating loss. The GOP kept the House. The country decided they didn't want the fiscal control in the hands of the dems the way it was from 2007-2010. The 2010 shellacking made that point especially clear and Pelosi could not change America's mind..

Guess we got the answer to whether Republicans would learn to listen to anyone from outside their base support after the election debacle.....

Of course they listened to people outside their base. In fact, they even reached across the aisle to listen.

That happened at the end of 2009, when Evan Bayh, Kent Conrad, Dianne Feinstein, Mark Warner and Joe Lieberman threatened to not increase the debt limit if they didn't get in place a fiscal commission that would recommend spending and entitlement cuts. That's right, Democrats started the hijacking of the debt limit.


The dems are just playing politics and class warfare.

.

 
2012-12-13 10:06:47 AM  

mittromneysdog: DeaH: The republican-controlled House controls spending bills. The debt ceiling is just a way of coming up with the credit to pay for the stuff the republicans spent. Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

This.

If Republicans want to control the spending, the place to do it is in appropriations, which right now consists of a bunch of continuing resolutions. Don't want to increase our debt? Stop appropriating the goddamn money.

I believe we need a new national poll test, consisting of one question:

"Do you believe refusing to increase America's debt ceiling constitutes a fiscally responsible move?" Anyone who answers "yes" is irrevocably denied all political rights.


And if they're already a politician, they are summarily executed.
 
2012-12-13 10:09:00 AM  

DeaH: Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.


Except it is nothing like that. If you are going to use the personal house metaphor it is more like having a contractor come to your house to do work and then a month later when he sends you the bill you refuse to make the funds available to pay him. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is refusing to pay for things you have already bought, it is not raising your credit limit to buy more things.
 
2012-12-13 10:09:12 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Yeah, about the devastating loss. The GOP kept the House. The country decided they didn't want the fiscal control in the hands of the dems the way it was from 2007-2010. The 2010 shellacking made that point especially clear and Pelosi could not change America's mind..


The GOP lost the "popular vote" of the House elections fairly handily and lost 30 House seats. The only way they kept control of the House was through the gerrymandering they were able to do due to the redistricting after the 2010 census.

/I said "do due"
//hehehehehe
 
2012-12-13 10:11:22 AM  

Frozboz: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.


Not quite. Thanks to gerrymandering, a Republican will represent the district in 2014, but it might not be the incumbent. That's where Grover Norquist comes in.
 
2012-12-13 10:15:54 AM  
Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?
NO.

"(Some) Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term." It's called accountability, so yeah, it's time to reap what you sewed.

Unfortunately, "elections have consequences", and he won.
 
2012-12-13 10:16:00 AM  

Magruda: DeaH: Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

Except it is nothing like that. If you are going to use the personal house metaphor it is more like having a contractor come to your house to do work and then a month later when he sends you the bill you refuse to make the funds available to pay him. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is refusing to pay for things you have already bought, it is not raising your credit limit to buy more things.


Exactly, the money is already spent!
 
2012-12-13 10:16:34 AM  

Cythraul: coeyagi: Frozboz: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.

Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.

I think probably the only counter to that would be to get rid of the EC and just go with a popular vote.


Problem - one measure can be done state by state, the other would require an amendment.
 
2012-12-13 10:19:10 AM  

Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.


Republicans are incapable of assessing their own failures.

Expect more of the same.
 
2012-12-13 10:20:21 AM  

Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.


Ummmm?

CNN
ABC ABC
CBS CBS

Admittedly, it isn't much more than a peep, but it's there.

Also, I hear news is available on the internet now.
 
2012-12-13 10:23:46 AM  

Magruda: DeaH: Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

Except it is nothing like that. If you are going to use the personal house metaphor it is more like having a contractor come to your house to do work and then a month later when he sends you the bill you refuse to make the funds available to pay him. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is refusing to pay for things you have already bought, it is not raising your credit limit to buy more things.


Hence the "spending like mad" part of my post.
 
2012-12-13 10:30:55 AM  

JMacPA: Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.

Ummmm?

CNN
ABC ABC
CBS CBS

Admittedly, it isn't much more than a peep, but it's there.

Also, I hear news is available on the internet now.


When I refer to "liberal" media it generally means televised news. He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs.
 
2012-12-13 10:34:21 AM  

Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs


Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.
 
2012-12-13 10:36:18 AM  

Magruda: Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs

Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.


Tell us more....
 
2012-12-13 10:41:47 AM  

verbaltoxin: Magruda: Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs

Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.

Tell us more....


I tried to type hell and it changed it to he'll. Do you need visual aides?
 
2012-12-13 10:54:09 AM  

Magruda: verbaltoxin: Magruda: Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs

Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.

Tell us more....

I tried to type hell and it changed it to he'll. Do you need visual aides?


As I understand it, you can't get visual AIDS from boobie-farking.

// no mucus membranes on the chesticles
 
2012-12-13 11:05:26 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: That happened at the end of 2009, when Evan Bayh, Kent Conrad, Dianne Feinstein, Mark Warner and Joe Lieberman threatened to not increase the debt limit if they didn't get in place a fiscal commission that would recommend spending and entitlement cuts. That's right, Democrats started the hijacking of the debt limit.


Bullshiat. You conveniently left out George Voinovich (R-Ohio) and Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) from your little list there and that bit of political theater was nothing more than a Senate power play to try to take spending legislation out of the hands of the House of Reps.
 
2012-12-13 11:08:03 AM  
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006
 
2012-12-13 11:15:32 AM  

randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006


Couldn't have said it better myself. The repeated failures of the GOP leadership in the House and Senate are 98% at fault for the "fiscal cliff" mess we are in right now. America deserves better, American needs to kick the "spend and borrow then blame on the black guy" GOP to the farking curb.
 
2012-12-13 11:20:05 AM  

randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006


You were so close to doing something clever. You should have posted this without citing the source and let the libbies attack your argument and then tell them who said it. So close.
 
2012-12-13 11:22:08 AM  

randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006


"Because of the unprecedented obstruction of our Democratic colleagues, the Republican conference intends to restore the principle that, regardless of party, any President's judicial nominees, after full debate, deserve a simple up-or-down vote. I know that some of our colleagues wish that restoration of this principle were not required. But it is a measured step that my friends on the other side of the aisle have unfortunately made necessary. For the first time in 214 years, they have changed the Senate's 'advise and consent' responsibilities to 'advise and obstruct.' [...] Given those results, many of us had hoped that the politics of obstruction would have been dumped in the dustbin of history. Regretfully, that did not happen." -- Senator McConnell, 2005.
 
2012-12-13 11:30:43 AM  

Serious Black: randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006

"Because of the unprecedented obstruction of our Democratic colleagues, the Republican conference intends to restore the principle that, regardless of party, any President's judicial nominees, after full debate, deserve a simple up-or-down vote. I know that some of our colleagues wish that restoration of this principle were not required. But it is a measured step that my friends on the other side of the aisle have unfortunately made necessary. For the first time in 214 years, they have changed the Senate's 'advise and consent' responsibilities to 'advise and obstruct.' [...] Given those results, many of us had hoped that the politics of obstruction would have been dumped in the dustbin of history. Regretfully, that did not happen." -- Senator McConnell, 2005.


"I'm lookin' for a biatch to spend the night
Do the crazy thing while I fark all night
I make her do things like nothing before
And when I'm done, she'll always be sore
From the things I do when I'm farkin'
And when I'm tired, the biatches are suckin'
A double team with a friend of mine
Luke's in front and I'm behind
Just ridin' you like a pony
While you suck my dick, makin' me horny
Then all of a sudden we'll switch positions
Prop your ass up and freak the pushin'And when
I cum, you'll hear me roar
I'll treat any biatch like a whore
'Cause it's the way I like to fark
It's face down and ass up!" -- Fresh Kid Ice, 1990.

/What? It's just as relevant as the other two quotes...
 
2012-12-13 11:33:39 AM  

keylock71: I've said it before, but you can take every single Republican, put them on a barge, float it out into the Atlantic, and scuttle it for all I care anymore. There is nothing redeemable about the GOP, at the moment.


Yeah. Heh, here in Hawaii we have a long history of being deep blue-except for that one time we voted a Republican woman in as governor. Her name was Linda Lingle, She recently ran for Senate to fill the seat being vacated by Daniel Akaka, against another woman running as Democrat-Mazie Hirono.

Personally, I thought Lingle was all right. She was in charge during some difficult times, and I heartily told people who ran attack ads based on the fact that she made uncomfortable choices that led to state worker furloughs to go fark themselves, since I was in private industry and had received a much greater screwing over during those years.

But I voted against her anyway, mostly because I sure as hell did not want to see the balance tip further to "R"-and I had no faith that she had any clue what her new coworkers would do to her and expect of her.

But that was just me. My roomates voted against her because of the state worker furlough thing. One of them works for Costco, the other makes eleven bucks an hour...
 
2012-12-13 11:54:15 AM  
talkandpolitics.files.wordpress.com

" I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part! and We're just the guys to do it. "
 
2012-12-13 11:59:42 AM  

coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.


That would happen exactly one time. Winning the EC but losing the popular vote by a tiny margin is one thing, but with a disparity measured in millions of votes there would be a huge push to eliminate the EC.
 
2012-12-13 12:38:50 PM  
eh, i'm ok with GOP political suicide if in the long-run the rest of us are better off

so sure, debt ceilings and stalemates leading to tax hikes + deep spending cuts? why the hell not? who cares about republican feelings if those are good things
 
2012-12-13 12:42:35 PM  
I"m with the Dems, finally someone over there found their balls.

fark the GOP radicals.
 
2012-12-13 01:03:31 PM  

Rootus: coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.

That would happen exactly one time. Winning the EC but losing the popular vote by a tiny margin is one thing, but with a disparity measured in millions of votes there would be a huge push to eliminate the EC.


If Republicans are so fully craven to rig the Electoral College so as to "win" an election where 53% vote against their candidate, what in god's name makes you think you'll get Republican Congressmen, Senators, and state legislators to pass an amendment taking away their ability to do so?

Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?


I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.
 
2012-12-13 01:19:26 PM  

RminusQ: Rootus: coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.

That would happen exactly one time. Winning the EC but losing the popular vote by a tiny margin is one thing, but with a disparity measured in millions of votes there would be a huge push to eliminate the EC.

If Republicans are so fully craven to rig the Electoral College so as to "win" an election where 53% vote against their candidate, what in god's name makes you think you'll get Republican Congressmen, Senators, and state legislators to pass an amendment taking away their ability to do so?
Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.


Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.
 
2012-12-13 01:23:57 PM  
fundividedattention.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-13 02:34:26 PM  

coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.

Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.


Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.
 
2012-12-13 03:12:26 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.

Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.

Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.


I never said it was exclusive, I am just saying that at present, the party who can't find a resonating platform with a farking telescope, is utilizing the tool big time.
 
2012-12-13 03:27:51 PM  

coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.

Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.

Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.

I never said it was exclusive, I am just saying that at present, the party who can't find a resonating platform with a farking telescope, is utilizing the tool big time.


"the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans" certainly sounds declarative, but
okay, INCUMBENTS would have made your point clearer.
 
2012-12-13 04:02:22 PM  

Serious Black: Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.

Sometimes it's good being overseas. I get most of my news from Al-Jazeera and BBC now, and I hear about things I would never hear about if I were back in the states. Doha was covered pretty extensively by them.


If you guys are talking about the climate conference, . . . apparently nothing happened in Doha last week.
 
2012-12-14 05:17:11 AM  

mittromneysdog: DeaH: The republican-controlled House controls spending bills. The debt ceiling is just a way of coming up with the credit to pay for the stuff the republicans spent. Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

This.

If Republicans want to control the spending, the place to do it is in appropriations, which right now consists of a bunch of continuing resolutions. Don't want to increase our debt? Stop appropriating the goddamn money.

I believe we need a new national poll test, consisting of one question:

"Do you believe refusing to increase America's debt ceiling constitutes a fiscally responsible move?" Anyone who answers "yes" is irrevocably denied all political rights.


That right there would have eliminated everyone in Missouri's Republican primary to see who got to run against Claire McCaskill.
 
2012-12-14 12:35:52 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.


Are any of those statements supposed to be related? The Census Bureau counts people, and then applies an objective mathematical formula to determine how many seats in Congress each state gets. It has absolutely nothing to do with gerrymandering or how the new districts are drawn at all.
 
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