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(Arpanet Dialogues)   1976: Jim Henson trolls Ayn Rand in an ARPANET chatroom   (arpanetdialogues.net) divider line 139
    More: Satire, Jim Henson, Ayn Rand, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, computer terminal, Roman mythology, Saigon, secret ballots  
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8197 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 10:04:40 AM
It's almost like Ayn Rand was a thoroughly unpleasant person, and the world is better off with her dead.

Too bad she left those execrable books behind.
 
2012-12-13 10:12:28 AM
AYN RAND
To be honest I find it to be senseless entertainment. I prefer the celebration of men and what they can achieve.

JIM HENSON
Do you have children Ms Rand.

AYN RAND
What do children have to do with what I prefer.

JIM HENSON
I find that being a parent being close to children has broadened my perspective allowed me to empathize and understand more than I ever did before. I hope that empathy comes through in my senseless entertainment.

...

AYN RAND
What is the point of this conversation.

SIDNEY NOLAN
What is the point of life we might as well go all the way.

AYN RAND
The point of life is to achieve personal happiness.

JIM HENSON
How do you do that Ms Rand.

SIDNEY NOLAN
Happiness can be your personal dictator if you make him your goal in life.

AYN RAND
What other goal would there be other than personal happiness. The happiness of others makes one a slave.

YOKO ONO
What if your own happiness makes others unhappy.

AYN RAND
Your happiness does not preclude that you are not making other people happy. Actually quite the opposite. If everyone works on their success and achievements this will bring the maximum amount of happiness to everyone.

SIDNEY NOLAN
History Ms. Rand dictates many things. We are always inside it and it is always inside us. We cannot escape it in most of our acts of will thoughts and concepts. Struggling with it is a purpose in itself. Happiness or not.

JIM HENSON
If that is a what makes a slave then that is what I am.

AYN RAND
Then your show does not make you happy.

...

JIM HENSON
Ms. Ono you are too idealistic I think.

AYN RAND
I agree.

SIDNEY NOLAN
I think Ms. Rand is even more idealistic at heart.

JIM HENSON
And sad.

...

JIM HENSON
I think Ms. Rand and my character Oscar the Grouch would have a lot to talk about actually. I am laughing out loud at this idea.

AYN RAND
Why would I want to talk to him. What has he achieved or trying to achieve.

JIM HENSON
He has achieved what I think is the ultimate goal of your way of thinking.

JIM HENSON
Isolation. Contempt for others. A hard heart. Yet even he can muster a bit of empathy every now and then.

AYN RAND
I am not isolated. I have no contempt for others. Millions of people read my books and find my thoughts inspirational. I hardly spend my time on the sidelines in a trash can grumping.

JIM HENSON
Not yet anyway.

AYN RAND
How empathetic of you Jim.


I didn't think I could love Jim Henson any more...and then this comes along.
 
2012-12-13 10:14:10 AM

Virtuoso80: She must have been fun at parties.


Parties are collectives.
 
2012-12-13 10:18:30 AM
Just for second, I thought his was real and it made my day. Now that I know it's not real, I don't care.

/day still made
 
2012-12-13 10:27:47 AM

taurusowner: Eh. Anyone who's actually familiar with Rand can see through a lot of that pretty easily. It clearly reads like it's been written by someone who's just been told what Rand believed, not heard or read her words himself.


Yeah, it would unbroken paragraphs of impenetrable nonsense, like her books.
 
2012-12-13 10:32:37 AM
Like Ayn Rand would deign to use a statist tool of regulation like ARPANET. Next thing you'll be telling me is that she was on the dole in the last years of her life. . .
 
2012-12-13 10:46:55 AM
Gentlemen, Gentlemen.

Let's stop arguing about whether or not this conversation is fake and about mid 1970s network architecture. There is something we can all agree on:

Ayn Rand was a colossal coont.
 
2012-12-13 11:02:45 AM

Stile4aly: Gentlemen, Gentlemen.

Let's stop arguing about whether or not this conversation is fake and about mid 1970s network architecture. There is something we can all agree on:

Ayn Rand was a colossal coont.


Those 4 pages arent enough for a tl;dr and I would love to read the whole thing but i cant stand that rethorical bullshiat. Some of them sounds like a direct copy-paste from Bioshock
 
2012-12-13 11:06:09 AM

Pocket Ninja: This thread would have been a lot funnier if you people could have resisted the urge to point out it wasn't real before it even hit the main board. Even if it is in the Geek tab wasteland.


Something seemed up when Ayn Rand's lines came across exactly how a parody of Ayn Rand might sound. Same with the line from the painter about celebration. Plus chat rooms in 1976?
 
2012-12-13 11:18:02 AM
I've never heard of Sidney Nolan until today -- I wonder if he's as big of a blowhard as he seems here. He seems to be almost as bombastic as Rand.
 
2012-12-13 11:18:23 AM
YOKO ONO
My favourite is Big Bird. He is so tall and gentle. I want to be naked and hug him.

AYN RAND
To be honest I find him to be shallow and pedantic. I prefer the celebration of men and what they can achieve, like plastic cutlery. Also, my name is a typewriter; your argument is invalid.

JIM HENSON
Show us your tits.

SIDNEY NOLAN
I agree.
 
2012-12-13 11:20:48 AM
If you guys are interested in seeing how the objectivist community will spin this, or simply in trolling a couple objectivists, why not check out this objectivist forum and make you're comment heard:

http://forum.objectivismonline.com/index.php?showtopic=24446
 
2012-12-13 11:27:41 AM
In 1947 dwight eisenhower, mohandas ghandi, joseph stalin, and george orwell each were sitting at a morse code broadcast station...
 
2012-12-13 11:28:03 AM

vossiewulf: Better fake chat room story.

Pocket Ninja: This thread would have been a lot funnier if you people could have resisted the urge to point out it wasn't real before it even hit the main board.

We pointed it out before it was green, didn't expect it to go. No idea why the ever-mysterious modmins went with it.


Because the mods knew it would generate clicks just because rand was in the headline. Usually the only thing that generates 100+ posts in the geek tab is an Idevice thread.
 
2012-12-13 11:34:17 AM
Ayn Rand was such a laughable parody of herself. Her worldview was so childish and simple-minded that she comes off sounding like a random quote generator.
 
2012-12-13 11:36:40 AM

evilmousse: In 1947 dwight eisenhower, mohandas ghandi, joseph stalin, and george orwell each were sitting at a morse code broadcast station...


*FAP*FAP*FAP*

... Go on.

I spent all day yesterday sitting at my straight key, chatting with people in Arizona, Belarus, The Netherlands, Germany, South Africa, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Texas, and a couple others I can't remember off the top of my head.

/Loves me the Morse.
//Used to do it professionally.
 
2012-12-13 11:55:02 AM

Igor Jakovsky: vossiewulf: Better fake chat room story.

Pocket Ninja: This thread would have been a lot funnier if you people could have resisted the urge to point out it wasn't real before it even hit the main board.

We pointed it out before it was green, didn't expect it to go. No idea why the ever-mysterious modmins went with it.

Because the mods knew it would generate clicks just because rand was in the headline. Usually the only thing that generates 100+ posts in the geek tab is an Idevice thread.


If only we could find a way to combine iProducts and Ayn Rand into one headline, it would be a virtually guaranteed green!
 
2012-12-13 12:01:07 PM
There's a bot-like quality to the conversation. I wonder if this is/was an AI project. I certainly remember doing stuff like that back in the seventies.
 
2012-12-13 12:05:03 PM
"arpanet chatroom" lol

that's a hilarious phrase in itself....


so what you need is an iYn Rand... an ugly little device that is always wrong and smells like a rotting opossum that will never ever shut up when you ask it a question.
 
2012-12-13 12:05:28 PM
If Rand saw the Muppet Show, Waldorf would ask her, "Jesus, lady, what is your problem?"
 
2012-12-13 12:45:07 PM
Has anyone tried to read "Das Kapitol"? Worst piece of crap I ever read and I only read 25 pages worth of herp a derp. Ok ok we get it 10 bolts of cloth is worth about the same for a coat. Also do you really need to write 3,000 pages?
 
2012-12-13 12:52:02 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-13 01:06:59 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-13 01:30:41 PM

Doctor Jellyfinger: [i.imgur.com image 396x396]


I don't feel rebellious for hating on Ayn Rand. I feel pretty good about my disdain, actually. I fact, I'm pretty happy that most people consider her a horrible, hypocritical, probably autisticly devoid of emotion, smelly, bad, bad person.

In fact, usually it's the Rand fans that think they are rebellious. We get it, you're a mid 20s male unappreciated in your profession, even if you excel at it. We get it, on the off chance you do have a human emotion, you quash it into nothing because its irrelevant to ambition and avarice.

There is a reason that Rand fan stereotype is so pervasive, it's because the age of the fans never goes up. Emotionally stunted mid 20year olds grow up, put away the self centered bullshiat and learn to engage in life and humanity. Or they don't and they end up farking Dominican boys between radio shows.

I wish I could poop on Ayn Rand's corpse. Now THAT is an atlas like galtchievement.
 
2012-12-13 01:41:36 PM
Bad authors are ignored. Troubling authors are reviled. Just the fact that people take time to shiat on Ayn Rand after all these years is proof that the issues she talked about are still relevant and controversial. You feed what you hate.
 
2012-12-13 01:45:06 PM
Funny....when I started reading it, I could tell something was up. The introductions were too....fake - used a modern rhythm. Too convenient. And then the people became to much characterless of themselves. And Yoko didn't have the command of the English language to that level by '76.

/I can tell by the pixels, etc
 
2012-12-13 01:48:21 PM
Oh, and:

files.abovetopsecret.com
 
2012-12-13 02:17:07 PM
Fictional Yoko Ono was right. Talking about objectivism makes normal people ask themselves: "I am surprised to be in such a conversation. It feels like a deliberate test." Because it often is.
 
2012-12-13 02:30:33 PM

Mrbogey: A caricature isn't reducto ad absurd. He didn't argue that it wasn't sound. A caricature often doesn't seem that way to the opponents of the target.


He called it a caricature but his description of what Colbert does -- and more importantly what Colbert actually does -- is by definition argument from absurdity.

It is a fine line, but watch closely. Nothing Colbert says is really out of line with what pundits routinely says.

That is to say, Colbert passes Poe's Law.
 
2012-12-13 02:45:36 PM

neongoats: Doctor Jellyfinger: [i.imgur.com image 396x396]

I don't feel rebellious for hating on Ayn Rand. I feel pretty good about my disdain, actually. I fact, I'm pretty happy that most people consider her a horrible, hypocritical, probably autisticly devoid of emotion, smelly, bad, bad person.

In fact, usually it's the Rand fans that think they are rebellious. We get it, you're a mid 20s male unappreciated in your profession, even if you excel at it. We get it, on the off chance you do have a human emotion, you quash it into nothing because its irrelevant to ambition and avarice.

There is a reason that Rand fan stereotype is so pervasive, it's because the age of the fans never goes up. Emotionally stunted mid 20year olds grow up, put away the self centered bullshiat and learn to engage in life and humanity. Or they don't and they end up farking Dominican boys between radio shows.

I wish I could poop on Ayn Rand's corpse. Now THAT is an atlas like galtchievement.


And people like you get all butt hurt every time we bad mouth Karl Marx.

Marx and Rand both live in a fantasy world believing that their ideal will work in real life.
 
2012-12-13 02:55:33 PM

kronicfeld: This is an art project.


ITYM "awful fanfic".
 
2012-12-13 03:34:05 PM
My happiness is to thwart every Randian's individualistic goals. I knew a Rand nut once who asked me for a ride into town. I said "I'm sure you'll be happier getting there on your own".
I knew another guy who told me the word "we" should be removed from the dictionary. I told him he should get started on that right away and the rest of us will watch.
 
2012-12-13 05:35:21 PM

dittybopper: evilmousse: In 1947 dwight eisenhower, mohandas ghandi, joseph stalin, and george orwell each were sitting at a morse code broadcast station...

*FAP*FAP*FAP*

... Go on.

I spent all day yesterday sitting at my straight key, chatting with people in Arizona, Belarus, The Netherlands, Germany, South Africa, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Texas, and a couple others I can't remember off the top of my head.

/Loves me the Morse.
//Used to do it professionally.


I bet it's a fun little community, arpanet likely was too.

How's that work, phone lines? What do you connect to?
 
2012-12-13 06:31:23 PM

imgod2u: He called it a caricature but his description of what Colbert does -- and more importantly what Colbert actually does -- is by definition argument from absurdity.

It is a fine line, but watch closely. Nothing Colbert says is really out of line with what pundits routinely says.

That is to say, Colbert passes Poe's Law.



No it's not.

Reducto ad absurd= "If two consenting adults should be allowed to get married, then why not incest? If it's about love? Why not polyamory? If what goes on in the bedroom is off limits, then why ban any sexual practice?
Caricature= "Give a Penny/Take a Penny? That's socialism!

You're seeing your view of caricature as absurdity because you want to believe that's what conservatives say. When you've stripped out the logic behind the argument and substituted your own to make an absurdity, then you're caricaturing. You see how easily the people who loathe Ayn Rand believe it's her but those not hostile to Objectivism have disbelief right away? That should tell you how your Poe-ometer is miscalibrated.
 
2012-12-13 07:03:49 PM

Mrbogey: imgod2u: He called it a caricature but his description of what Colbert does -- and more importantly what Colbert actually does -- is by definition argument from absurdity.

It is a fine line, but watch closely. Nothing Colbert says is really out of line with what pundits routinely says.

That is to say, Colbert passes Poe's Law.


No it's not.

Reducto ad absurd= "If two consenting adults should be allowed to get married, then why not incest? If it's about love? Why not polyamory? If what goes on in the bedroom is off limits, then why ban any sexual practice?
Caricature= "Give a Penny/Take a Penny? That's socialism!


Erm, your examples don't show the original argument being made. Obviously if, in your mind, no pundit has ever uttered a similar -- though less extreme -- statement, then of course it's caricature. Of course, that's not the case. Pundits across networks -- as demonstrated through footages constantly on the show right before Colbert -- consistently make mountains out of molehills by claiming various seemingly innocuous things as "socialism taking over America!".

Yes, you've phrased your former example correctly whereas the later is simply the absurd conclusion of already established lines of reasoning.

You're seeing your view of caricature as absurdity because you want to believe that's what conservatives say.

No, I'm seeing it as absurd because it commonly mirrors -- almost exactly -- what has been said by pundits that Colbert is there to parody. Like I said, it passes Poe's Law.

When you've stripped out the logic behind the argument and substituted your own to make an absurdity, then you're caricaturing.

Except of course, it wasn't substituted logic. It was replacing x therefore y with a therefore b, with the line of reasoning being almost identical -- often times in both reasoning and wording -- as those that have been uttered before.

You see how easily the people who loathe Ayn Rand believe it's her but those not hostile to Objectivism have disbelief right away? That should tell you how your Poe-ometer is miscalibrated.

I like the loading of the category descriptions there. One group (the one you disagree with) is of course, people emotionally involved -- they "loathe Ayn Rand". But of course, those who noticed -- whether right away or through careful scrutiny/research, we don't know, but you seem comfortable with assuming the former -- is of course simple "not hostile to Objectivism". They sound so even-tempered and level-headed, they must be the ones with correctly calibrated Poe-meters!

And here you've demonstrated the problem with most of Ayn Rand's philosophy -- there's leagues worth of assumptions of self-described objectivism. None of which actually exist under careful scrutiny. The "self-evident" card is played as if it were always enough in and of itself and any opposition must be emotionally motivated!
 
2012-12-13 08:55:09 PM

Freschel: neongoats: Doctor Jellyfinger: [i.imgur.com image 396x396]

I don't feel rebellious for hating on Ayn Rand. I feel pretty good about my disdain, actually. I fact, I'm pretty happy that most people consider her a horrible, hypocritical, probably autisticly devoid of emotion, smelly, bad, bad person.

In fact, usually it's the Rand fans that think they are rebellious. We get it, you're a mid 20s male unappreciated in your profession, even if you excel at it. We get it, on the off chance you do have a human emotion, you quash it into nothing because its irrelevant to ambition and avarice.

There is a reason that Rand fan stereotype is so pervasive, it's because the age of the fans never goes up. Emotionally stunted mid 20year olds grow up, put away the self centered bullshiat and learn to engage in life and humanity. Or they don't and they end up farking Dominican boys between radio shows.

I wish I could poop on Ayn Rand's corpse. Now THAT is an atlas like galtchievement.

And people like you get all butt hurt every time we bad mouth Karl Marx.

Marx and Rand both live in a fantasy world believing that their ideal will work in real life.


Well, you manage to think about as critically as the typical Randroid. I don't give a shiat about Karl Marx. But I do enjoy pointing out the real life facts about the objectivist savior. It's cute that the champion of achievement and ant-like worship of near lifetime pseudo slavery, where your value to humanity is based solely on you GDP didn't actually believe in her own philosophy enough to get a job to pay the bills.

Telling other people that they should be hard working serfs who worship industrialism was exhausting I guess.
 
2012-12-14 02:44:05 PM

neongoats: Freschel: neongoats: Doctor Jellyfinger: [i.imgur.com image 396x396]

I don't feel rebellious for hating on Ayn Rand. I feel pretty good about my disdain, actually. I fact, I'm pretty happy that most people consider her a horrible, hypocritical, probably autisticly devoid of emotion, smelly, bad, bad person.

In fact, usually it's the Rand fans that think they are rebellious. We get it, you're a mid 20s male unappreciated in your profession, even if you excel at it. We get it, on the off chance you do have a human emotion, you quash it into nothing because its irrelevant to ambition and avarice.

There is a reason that Rand fan stereotype is so pervasive, it's because the age of the fans never goes up. Emotionally stunted mid 20year olds grow up, put away the self centered bullshiat and learn to engage in life and humanity. Or they don't and they end up farking Dominican boys between radio shows.

I wish I could poop on Ayn Rand's corpse. Now THAT is an atlas like galtchievement.

And people like you get all butt hurt every time we bad mouth Karl Marx.

Marx and Rand both live in a fantasy world believing that their ideal will work in real life.

Well, you manage to think about as critically as the typical Randroid. I don't give a shiat about Karl Marx. But I do enjoy pointing out the real life facts about the objectivist savior. It's cute that the champion of achievement and ant-like worship of near lifetime pseudo slavery, where your value to humanity is based solely on you GDP didn't actually believe in her own philosophy enough to get a job to pay the bills.

Telling other people that they should be hard working serfs who worship industrialism was exhausting I guess.


Ahem let me repeat this line that you obviously blanked out.

Marx and Rand both live in a fantasy world believing that their ideal will work in real life.

How is that make me a mindless Randroid?
 
2012-12-14 04:20:19 PM

Freschel: How is that make me a mindless Randroid?


I don't know about being a Randroid, but the fact that you think if a person doesn't like Ayn Rand they must like Karl Marx shows a failure in your reasoning.
 
2012-12-15 03:43:52 AM

Russad: Freschel: How is that make me a mindless Randroid?

I don't know about being a Randroid, but the fact that you think if a person doesn't like Ayn Rand they must like Karl Marx shows a failure in your reasoning.


And just because I hate Marx doesn't make me a Randroid.
 
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