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(Arpanet Dialogues)   1976: Jim Henson trolls Ayn Rand in an ARPANET chatroom   (arpanetdialogues.net) divider line 139
    More: Satire, Jim Henson, Ayn Rand, Universal Declaration of Human Rights, computer terminal, Roman mythology, Saigon, secret ballots  
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8204 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 02:47:41 AM  

Ishkur: taurusowner: But the ideas here are just caricatures of her actual ideas

No, not really. She was an Aspergers extraordinaire, she had no compulsion for socializing or small talk and if you let her, she would launch into a long-winded speech just as frequently as her characters. And she would consider it a grievous insult if you dared to interrupt her so you had to let her finish.

She was a very bitter person and even her closest friends could not stand to be around her for very long. She was only tolerable in small doses.


just like her long winded annoying books .... LOL
funny to find that she was the same in real life as her terrible long winded
YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN books

seriously biatch, we GOT IT, we GOT IT in the first paragraph.
Did you really think you need 600 more pages of that speech???
LOL
 
2012-12-13 02:57:56 AM  
Sometimes I forget that Yoko is actually smart, and not just empathetic. Her "test" comment was spot-on, but it wasn't the technicians who were administering the test. And it wasn't Nolan, either.
 
2012-12-13 02:58:05 AM  

taurusowner: imgod2u: taurusowner: Ishkur: taurusowner: Eh. Anyone who's actually familiar with Rand can see through a lot of that pretty easily. It clearly reads like it's been written by someone who's just been told what Rand believed, not heard or read her words himself.

Actually, if you watch her old interviews and talk shows (I remember the big hour long one on Donahue) she talks and acts EXACTLY like that.

She hated dissent, was known to start a fit whenever someone disagreed with the self-evident superiority of her logic, and would not want to stick around in a discussion of that format.

But the ideas here are just caricatures of her actual ideas. It's like reading what a Farker thinks Rand believed instead of what she actually believed. You can see a lot of that in this very thread. There's no requirement that one must agree with Rand, but the sheer lack of understanding of what she actually thought is staggering. Caricature is the best description I can think of.

I think Colbert demonstrates fairly well that caricature doesn't always mean inaccurate nor inapplicable.

That's just not true. A caricature of ideas is simply a strawman by another name. It's presenting an inflated ridiculous image of what your opponent believes, not what they actually believe, and then attacking that. This "chat room" is a perfect example. This thread is ridiculing Rand not for anything she actually believed or said, but for the inflated, simplistic and skewed image of what someone thinks she might have believed.

Whether you agree with her or not, agreeing with presenting any ideas like that is a slap in the face to logical thought anywhere. it doesn't become "ok" to do that simply because it's being done to someone you don't like.


You just argued that argument from absurdity is not sound. I disagree.
 
2012-12-13 02:59:24 AM  
This actually happened

I bet subby thinks The Onion is real news too.
 
2012-12-13 03:01:39 AM  

brap: Please tell me that is fiction.  That was completely shameful.
 
What an upleasant git.


Looks like it. And I fell for it. Alas.
 
2012-12-13 03:01:55 AM  

namatad: WHAT IS WRONG WITH ASSHOLE AND FORMATTING???

FFS stop centering text. We dont read middle out. We read english left to right ...
AND FFS, black background and bright text?

sigh

I REALLY HATE these people


It's from 1975. That's how things looked back then.
 
2012-12-13 03:04:43 AM  

imgod2u: You just argued that argument from absurdity is not sound. I disagree.

reductio ad absurdum

is an acceptable debate technique.

In a sense isn't that what Colbert does, by boiling down Conservative/Republican philosophy and taking points to their logical conclusions?
 
2012-12-13 03:06:48 AM  
t.qkme.me
 
2012-12-13 03:13:28 AM  
Nice to see the people who love rand are true to her personality...
 
2012-12-13 03:15:50 AM  
Even as a fake, I laughed.
 
2012-12-13 03:28:42 AM  
I often wonder why, as much as she was criticized, Rand didn't feel unappreciated enough to Go Galt.
 
2012-12-13 03:35:56 AM  

ox45tallboy: I often wonder why, as much as she was criticized, Rand didn't feel unappreciated enough to Go Galt.


It's hard to Go Galt when you spend half your life on the dole and living with family, while considering yourself too achievement oriented to take lesser, bill paying work.

You know, our broken evil society didn't recognize the value in an atlas achiever like her so even though by all moral rights she should have been Romney Sized Rich, she could hardly cobble up the cash for a bus ticket most of her life.
 
2012-12-13 03:36:40 AM  
Goddammit. I was surprised how stereotypical the responses seemed to be.

They're real to me, dammit!
 
2012-12-13 03:42:51 AM  
Well, it was damn entertaining for a staged event.
 
2012-12-13 03:57:13 AM  
YOKO ONO
My favourite is Big Bird. He is so tall and gentle.

AYN RAND
To be honest I find it to be senseless entertainment. I prefer the celebration of men and what they can achieve.


ragecollection.com
 
2012-12-13 04:57:34 AM  
JIM HENSON
Thank you its kind of you to say so. Im also a fan of yours and John Lennons music.
SIDNEY NOLAN
Who is your favourite puppet from the line of characters you have created Jim.
YOKO ONO
Thank you. John loves your programmes too.
JIM HENSON
Each character is special for me they represent different aspects of myself. Kermit the frog is perhaps closest to me. An altar ego of sorts.
AYN RAND
What does that say about you.
JIM HENSON
I dont know. I don't think too much about it.
YOKO ONO
My favourite is Big Bird. He is so tall and gentle.
AYN RAND
To be honest I find it to be senseless entertainment. I prefer the celebration of men and what they can achieve.

Ayn Rand wanted a world without Mupppets. No wonder the gop wants to abolish PBS so bad.
 
2012-12-13 05:05:11 AM  
AYN RAND
What other goal would there be other than personal happiness. The happiness of others makes one a slave.

YOKO ONO
What if your own happiness makes others unhappy.

And an oogie feeling washes over me as my respect for Yoko Ono gains +1000 points.

Or, should I handicap because just about anything that has a brain was more intelligent than Ayn Rand?
 
2012-12-13 05:33:10 AM  
Did he put on his robe and wizard's hat for her?
 
2012-12-13 05:50:59 AM  
Ayn Rand sounds like a bitter coont
 
2012-12-13 06:23:13 AM  

Silverstaff: Wow, this is awesome.

So, Ayn Rand was as annoying in online chats as her followers were later?

Wonder how the Randroids will spin this.


When the leader of your philosophical movement sounds stupid by comparison to Yoko Ono - it's time to reassess.
 
2012-12-13 06:30:32 AM  

taurusowner: imgod2u: taurusowner: Ishkur: taurusowner: Eh. Anyone who's actually familiar with Rand can see through a lot of that pretty easily. It clearly reads like it's been written by someone who's just been told what Rand believed, not heard or read her words himself.

Actually, if you watch her old interviews and talk shows (I remember the big hour long one on Donahue) she talks and acts EXACTLY like that.

She hated dissent, was known to start a fit whenever someone disagreed with the self-evident superiority of her logic, and would not want to stick around in a discussion of that format.

But the ideas here are just caricatures of her actual ideas. It's like reading what a Farker thinks Rand believed instead of what she actually believed. You can see a lot of that in this very thread. There's no requirement that one must agree with Rand, but the sheer lack of understanding of what she actually thought is staggering. Caricature is the best description I can think of.

I think Colbert demonstrates fairly well that caricature doesn't always mean inaccurate nor inapplicable.

That's just not true. A caricature of ideas is simply a strawman by another name. It's presenting an inflated ridiculous image of what your opponent believes, not what they actually believe, and then attacking that. This "chat room" is a perfect example. This thread is ridiculing Rand not for anything she actually believed or said, but for the inflated, simplistic and skewed image of what someone thinks she might have believed.

Whether you agree with her or not, agreeing with presenting any ideas like that is a slap in the face to logical thought anywhere. it doesn't become "ok" to do that simply because it's being done to someone you don't like.


I think it is fairly absurd to believe that Rand "thought" anything on any consistent or coherent basis. She was a psychotic, and her garbled collection of insane "thoughts" reflects little but that.
 
2012-12-13 07:00:01 AM  

Kazan: comparing nietzsche to rand is an insult to nietzsche. Rand is out of her depth in a kiddie pool, Nietzsche was a sarcastic critic of the status quo and blind obedience to tradition (thought himself fell victim to it sometimes - ex gender roles).


This.

At least Nietzsche's idea of a superman was an artist. Rand's idea of one was an arsehole.
 
2012-12-13 07:09:26 AM  

Lsherm: Benevolent Misanthrope: kronicfeld: This actually happened

Sure didn't. And Steve Biko - a poor, South African anti-apartheid activist - didn't participate in one of the other ones posted on the site.

This is an art project.

And not a very well-written one. I don't know about the philosophies of Nolan or Henson, but the lines from Rand and Ono were not believable at all.

In 1976 there were less than 80 public nodes on ARPANET and absolutely nothing that could be considered a "chat" protocol unless you counted serial handshakes.

farking kids these days are too lazy and stupid to even look up information for their own projects. What a waste of time.


I started reading, and didn't get very far until this:

YOKO ONO
I would love to appear on one of your television programs Mr Henson.


Then my Carl Sagan patented Baloney Detector started ringing. Transcript says it was from April 1976. The Muppet Show debuted in September 1976.

Instantly made me think it was bullshiat.
 
2012-12-13 07:13:44 AM  

namatad: AND FFS, black background and bright text?


Even though the chat was fact, a black background and light colored text gives you a "feel" for what using a terminal back then was like, when you had your choice of white on black, green on black, or amber on black.
 
2012-12-13 07:14:21 AM  

dittybopper: Even though the chat was fact fake,


FTFM. Don't know why I typed that.
 
2012-12-13 07:17:11 AM  
Christ, I'm glad that woman is dead. What an insufferable pain in the ass. I bet sex was strictly missionary, if at all. Sex probably interfered with her pursuit of personal happiness.
 
2012-12-13 07:17:51 AM  

TV's Vinnie: YOKO ONO
What if your own happiness makes others unhappy.

And an oogie feeling washes over me as my respect for Yoko Ono gains +1000 points.


Others like Paul, George, and Ringo?
 
2012-12-13 07:22:04 AM  

DubyaHater: Christ, I'm glad that woman is dead. What an insufferable pain in the ass. I bet sex was strictly missionary, if at all. Sex probably interfered with her pursuit of personal happiness.


You know this is fake, right?
 
2012-12-13 07:23:25 AM  
Fark wants to believe.....
 
2012-12-13 07:37:52 AM  

DubyaHater: Christ, I'm glad that woman is dead. What an insufferable pain in the ass. I bet sex was strictly missionary, if at all. Sex probably interfered with her pursuit of personal happiness.


I think she preferred to be raped, if I understand her writing correctly.
 
2012-12-13 07:41:50 AM  
Come on, people. Jim Henson wasn't even born until 1983. Rand died in 1928. Yoko Ono was a gnu in the Duluth Municipal Zoo.

Ignorance, ignorance everywhere.
 
2012-12-13 07:45:36 AM  

imgod2u: taurusowner: imgod2u: taurusowner: Ishkur: taurusowner: Eh. Anyone who's actually familiar with Rand can see through a lot of that pretty easily. It clearly reads like it's been written by someone who's just been told what Rand believed, not heard or read her words himself.

Actually, if you watch her old interviews and talk shows (I remember the big hour long one on Donahue) she talks and acts EXACTLY like that.

She hated dissent, was known to start a fit whenever someone disagreed with the self-evident superiority of her logic, and would not want to stick around in a discussion of that format.

But the ideas here are just caricatures of her actual ideas. It's like reading what a Farker thinks Rand believed instead of what she actually believed. You can see a lot of that in this very thread. There's no requirement that one must agree with Rand, but the sheer lack of understanding of what she actually thought is staggering. Caricature is the best description I can think of.

I think Colbert demonstrates fairly well that caricature doesn't always mean inaccurate nor inapplicable.

That's just not true. A caricature of ideas is simply a strawman by another name. It's presenting an inflated ridiculous image of what your opponent believes, not what they actually believe, and then attacking that. This "chat room" is a perfect example. This thread is ridiculing Rand not for anything she actually believed or said, but for the inflated, simplistic and skewed image of what someone thinks she might have believed.

Whether you agree with her or not, agreeing with presenting any ideas like that is a slap in the face to logical thought anywhere. it doesn't become "ok" to do that simply because it's being done to someone you don't like.

You just argued that argument from absurdity is not sound. I disagree.


A caricature isn't reducto ad absurd. He didn't argue that it wasn't sound. A caricature often doesn't seem that way to the opponents of the target.
 
2012-12-13 07:47:39 AM  

dittybopper: Then my Carl Sagan patented Baloney Detector started ringing. Transcript says it was from April 1976. The Muppet Show debuted in September 1976.


Sesame Street debuted in 1969. Kermit, Oscar and Big Bird were household names by 1976.
 
2012-12-13 07:50:40 AM  

dittybopper: DubyaHater: Christ, I'm glad that woman is dead. What an insufferable pain in the ass. I bet sex was strictly missionary, if at all. Sex probably interfered with her pursuit of personal happiness.

You know this is fake, right?


I understand its fake. Unfortunately, it's still an accurate representation of her beliefs regarding her purpose in life.
 
2012-12-13 07:55:18 AM  
From the site:

Disclaimer

The parties responsible for presenting the textual information on this website, and in other formats that appear as part of this project, disclose that their intention is to create the thoughts and emotions of the various characters presented through The Arpanet Dialogues in an effort to stimulate debate about the current state of world affairs from the perspective of hindsight.


It ain't real. Amusing, but not real.
 
2012-12-13 07:59:45 AM  
Huh. It appears that the powers that be have changed the tag to Satire and removed "This actually happened" from the headline.
 
2012-12-13 08:00:05 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: So, ARPANET was like Twitter?


New to the internet huh? They were chatting on an interface like IRC(internet relay chat).
 
2012-12-13 08:04:47 AM  

namatad: WHAT IS WRONG WITH ASSHOLE AND FORMATTING???

FFS stop centering text. We dont read middle out. We read english left to right ...
AND FFS, black background and bright text?

sigh

I REALLY HATE these people


Interesting. I agree with you about the centered text, but I greatly prefer white on ball background. It's much easier on the eyes and less like staring at a lightbulb.
 
2012-12-13 08:07:17 AM  

Elegy: namatad: WHAT IS WRONG WITH ASSHOLE AND FORMATTING???

FFS stop centering text. We dont read middle out. We read english left to right ...
AND FFS, black background and bright text?

sigh

I REALLY HATE these people

Interesting. I agree with you about the centered text, but I greatly prefer white on ball background. It's much easier on the eyes and less like staring at a lightbulb.


*black

/farking autocorrect
 
2012-12-13 09:00:30 AM  
Fake though it may be, this is exactly how I imagine Ayn Rand's trolling to look like. Were she a Farker, she'd be our most successful troll of all time.
 
2012-12-13 09:03:49 AM  
Fake or not, I always found Rand to be antiphilosophy instead of philosophy, because her ideas are the notions that toddlers already have. Philosophy is the art of thinking thoughts bigger than ourselves, so Ayn Rand is a step backwards toward the savage we all are instead of a step forward into the infinite potential of what we might become.
 
2012-12-13 09:07:06 AM  
She would be somewhere between animal/color troll and randomjsa. Presuming they aren't just alts of each other.

So in other words, stupid, universally reviled, and about as morally grounded as Sauron.

Aka typical Fark Independanttm
 
2012-12-13 09:07:12 AM  

Ishkur: dittybopper: Then my Carl Sagan patented Baloney Detector started ringing. Transcript says it was from April 1976. The Muppet Show debuted in September 1976.

Sesame Street debuted in 1969. Kermit, Oscar and Big Bird were household names by 1976.


From the transcript:
YOKO ONO
I would love to appear on one of your television programs Mr Henson.


Sesame Street wasn't his program, and wasn't known for having guests as often as The Muppet Show, which did feature famous guests every episode.

I'm not saying it's completely out of the realm of possibility, of course, but it was enough to make my Baloney Detector start ringing, and of course, in the final analysis I was right, it is fake.
 
2012-12-13 09:09:43 AM  

dickfreckle: Fake though it may be, this is exactly how I imagine Ayn Rand's trolling to look like.


So it's a pious fraud?
 
2012-12-13 09:12:07 AM  

dittybopper: I'm not saying it's completely out of the realm of possibility, of course, but it was enough to make my Baloney Detector start ringing, and of course, in the final analysis I was right, it is fake.


We all agree its fake, but people expressing admiration for Jim Henson's work in 1976 isn't that unusual.... especially if it's a fellow entertainer like Yoko Ono. By then he was already an established puppeteer with a nearly 20 year career spanning television, commercials, advertisements, radio shows and plays and other things. But it was Sesame Street that easily put him on the map.
 
2012-12-13 09:34:20 AM  

Ishkur: dittybopper: I'm not saying it's completely out of the realm of possibility, of course, but it was enough to make my Baloney Detector start ringing, and of course, in the final analysis I was right, it is fake.

We all agree its fake, but people expressing admiration for Jim Henson's work in 1976 isn't that unusual.... especially if it's a fellow entertainer like Yoko Ono. By then he was already an established puppeteer with a nearly 20 year career spanning television, commercials, advertisements, radio shows and plays and other things. But it was Sesame Street that easily put him on the map.


Yeah, but other than a couple of specials that didn't attract much notice, he didn't have a show of his own. It's not that she's expressing admiration, it's that the syntax she used implied that he had ownership or control. It's the sort of thing that makes you go "Huh, that just doesn't *FEEL* right, I better look a little closer".
 
2012-12-13 09:45:52 AM  

Makh: It's like, they'll just greenlight anything around here.

/I thought it was kinda amusing.


Seeng an article like this greenlit is a clue that I'm about to have a really productive day at work, since I won't be hanging around Fark all day.
 
2012-12-13 09:48:13 AM  
I prefer to believe that these were 4 early chat bot prototypes talking to each other.
 
2012-12-13 09:54:27 AM  

DubyaHater: Christ, I'm glad that woman is dead. What an insufferable pain in the ass. I bet sex was strictly missionary, if at all. Sex probably interfered with her pursuit of personal happiness.


I have a feeling sex with her it would have been "I got mine..You get yours" sorta thing...

//Fake or not..i enjoyed it...
 
2012-12-13 10:00:38 AM  

sxacho: I prefer to believe that these were 4 early chat bot prototypes talking to each other.


Heh. The Rand character actually feels like that. An interesting Turing test.
 
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