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(Tri-City Herald)   HOA: signs larger than 2' by 2' are not allowed. Homeowner: it's not a sign, it's a 6 foot long flat Christmas decoration with printing on it   (tri-cityherald.com) divider line 39
    More: Asinine, Pasco, christmas, does not follow, homeowners  
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11074 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2012 at 2:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-12 08:22:38 PM
7 votes:
Earth's procession is the reason for the season. Pagan ritual is the reason for the seasonal celebration. Christian usurpation of the pagan ritual is the reason it has any meaning for Christians, but that's quite a bit of after-the-fact meaning assignment.
2012-12-13 02:56:04 AM
3 votes:

CaptSS: baka-san: Sorry Jackass, you wanted in the HOA, you got in, now do what yer told.

Who said he wanted in a HOA? Because he moved there? Are you on of those "if you don't like a HOA don't move there?"

HOA's cover appx 25 million homes in the US. It's not always as simple as just spouting off don't move there.

I do agree with the HOA that it is a sign and should go.


Yes, it is. Choosing a place to live is all about compromise. You can't have every feature you want. You can't live in your own definition of the perfect neighborhood. You can't dictate what stores and services are nearby or how close your job is (finding a job, also compromise). If you're going to buy a home you damned well better know if there's an HOA involved. Ignorance of the rules won't protect you from a bunch of power mad whiny douche nozzles who decide to fine you into bankruptcy so if you have to find out the hard way that's your own fault.

Having dealt with HOA BS myself I can say that it would be nice if more of them were as proactive about making residents aware of the rules as this one was. Usually their first contact with you is a demand to pay an exorbitant fine or they'll take your house. If you want to claim you had no choice but to buy a house in an HOA and play the victim when they clamp down on you for not following the rules you're a retard. It really is that simple.
2012-12-12 08:38:40 PM
3 votes:
Well if you're going to go all Magritte on our asses, this is not an eviction notice.
2012-12-13 10:17:40 AM
2 votes:

Mominator: Lsherm: Mominator: Submitter here... I'm trying to get one of my friends who lives in that same neighborhood to put up a 2 foot by 2 foot sign that he wanted to put up (he says he's too lazy and doesn't want to get vandalized) that says "Axial tilt: the reason for the season". 

I commented in the paper as well, asking: I wonder if one of his neighbors put up a Happy Hanukkah sign the same size as his, and put blue and white lights around it, or a sign saying "Merry Kwanzaa" or a sign wishing people a Merry Solstice, would he be leading the pack in requiring them to be removed?

Why would he? The HOA is requiring it to be removed. In general, people who run afoul of HOA rules aren't the kind of people who enforce HOA rules.

At this point, the sign is still there. I'm asking a question, and I honestly would be interested in hearing the answer from that homeowner. Is he protesting against the HOA's restrictions, or is this a sort of "I'm Christian so I can get away with this" thing?


FTA: "To me, if the message is OK, they should be saying, "Rejoice! Jesus is the reason for the season. Amen," Meeker told the Herald.

I doubt he'd feel the same were someone displaying a sign antithetical to his, be it pagan, Satanist, or atheist. His stated rationale is actually "because Jesus".
2012-12-13 08:43:41 AM
2 votes:
I wonder how many times Ms HOA has had to say this....

FFTA "she reinforced that it's purely the size that's at issue"
2012-12-13 06:25:54 AM
2 votes:

Omahawg: Gordon Bennett: Omahawg: No, it's "art", dummy. It's always "art" and then hand them the business card of the local chapter of the ACLU

After that you can admire your signature on the deed including the clause in which you agreed to abide by the HOA's rules.

HOA trumps 1st amendment?


Not so much 'trumps' as 'isn't a government body, so isn't bound by' situation.

The First Amendment isn't there to prevent you from signing away some of your other rights voluntarily to another private party.

Now, if a hypothetical plaintiff could show that ALL the housing stock in his town/city/county was covered by restrictive HOAs, he might have an argument that they were quasi-government entities, and therefore First Amendment analysis was appropriate.
2012-12-13 03:08:18 AM
2 votes:
Simple solution: Cut the offending sign into 2' X 2' pieces, then the HOA can't say shiat.
2012-12-12 11:04:30 PM
2 votes:
Why is it that the flamboyant displays of modern religion are always gaudy and hideous? Is there any religious person with a sense of taste anymore?
2012-12-12 10:25:49 PM
2 votes:
Submitter here... I'm trying to get one of my friends who lives in that same neighborhood to put up a 2 foot by 2 foot sign that he wanted to put up (he says he's too lazy and doesn't want to get vandalized) that says "Axial tilt: the reason for the season". 

I commented in the paper as well, asking: I wonder if one of his neighbors put up a Happy Hanukkah sign the same size as his, and put blue and white lights around it, or a sign saying "Merry Kwanzaa" or a sign wishing people a Merry Solstice, would he be leading the pack in requiring them to be removed?
2012-12-12 10:05:16 PM
2 votes:
Sorry Jackass, you wanted in the HOA, you got in, now do what yer told.
2012-12-13 05:44:44 PM
1 votes:
HOAs do not improve nor protect property values. They're just a marketing tool for real estate developers. When you factor in the association fees, you get less house for your money, a bunch of stupid rules, and no financial benefit when you resell.

Now, if you're the kind of by-the-rules personality who doesn't like your food to mingle, prefers Euro Disney to Europe, and gets anxious if your neighbor's grass goes uncut for more than a week, then probably HOAs are for you. For the rest of us, not so much.
2012-12-13 12:36:56 PM
1 votes:

Lord Dimwit: 900RR: I just love these a--holes that freely move into these Nazi HOA's, knowing full well the ridiculous rules they have, and then suddenly decide they don't like their rules. Idiots.

The problem is that the number of neighborhoods without HOAs is continually shrinking, and neighborhoods without HOAs are often older and poorer. I hate that for many people the choice is "live in an HOA neighborhood with potentially onerous rules or jerkass boards" or "live in the middle of nowhere or an unsafe area"...


Screw it... buy a gat and move to the country! Then you can do whatever you want without worry! Your neighbors will be like-minded and probably help you out more than the police ever would. Not all places without zoning are pits. Most of the house on my street are pushing $200k or more.
2012-12-13 12:04:46 PM
1 votes:

bluefoxicy: spidermann: So... when will the Union busting politicals get off their asses and bust the HOA/COAs?

It's a strong grouping of people forcing the same rules upon everybody and as soon as you move into their territory you have to pay them to be a part of it whether you like it or not.

Perhaps a "Right to Buy Law" would be needed.....

I have been contacting my state representatives in Maryland asking for legislation restricting the powers of the HOA. Under my proposed legislation, HOA membership would function similar to Union membership in the Federal Government.

In the Federal Government, when a Federal Employee is hired, the Union approaches the Employee with an explanation of Union dues, rules, and benefits. The employee is at this point already employed by the Federal Government; he may chose to opt into the Union or he may decline, in either case retaining his employment status. Those who decline Union membership may not be removed from employment for opting out.

Similarly, I propose that HOA membership terminates upon execution of a contract of sale; and that the HOA may not require membership in the HOA as a clause in the contract for an HOA member to sell their property. Upon ratification of contract, the HOA may approach the buyer with an explanation of HOA fees, rules, and benefits; the HOA may not nullify the contract of sale if the buyer refuses to join the HOA.

What we need is a grass roots push for this kind of legislation. We don't need to legislate HOAs out of existence; we just need to legislate individual liberty back into existence. (Read this in the voice of Ron Paul)


Might work where HOAs cover individual, discrete, lots.

But I'd hate to see that passed for my place. With multiple units sharing communal roofs, simple maintenance would become a litigious nightmare.

Bear in mind that almost any HOA in the country can be terminated simply by a voting majority of its owners agreeing to do so. The fact that they don't, might just possibly indicate they're reasonably happy the way things are.

You may be trying to fix a 'problem' that's largely a media artifact, and trampling property and contract rights to do so.

'Well-run HOA takes care of business, lets members do as they please' doesn't sell a lot of newspapers...

For all those saying HOAs take money from their members, mine is run by non-paid elected members; dues go straight into needed maintenance.

Are there bad HOAs? Sure. Just don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
2012-12-13 11:21:46 AM
1 votes:
So he'e a liar (and he knows it),
but he thinks it's ok to lie because his message is so important.
His end justifies his means.
2012-12-13 11:14:07 AM
1 votes:

Omahawg: Gordon Bennett: Omahawg: No, it's "art", dummy. It's always "art" and then hand them the business card of the local chapter of the ACLU

After that you can admire your signature on the deed including the clause in which you agreed to abide by the HOA's rules.

HOA trumps 1st amendment?

who are these weird people who want to live in these places?


No. You can still sign an NDA that makes you civilly liable if you talk about things covered in it. That's not abridging your freedom of speech, that's contract law. There are some unconscionable contracts, but this isn't one of them.
2012-12-13 09:34:09 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I hate HOAs, but:

"It shouldn't be considered a sign. It should be considered my Christmas decorations," he said.

No asshole, it's a sign. It's not even a decorative sign. It's just a sign.


I'm sure Mr. Meeker would stand behind a Muslim putting up a sign for an Islamic holiday.

/no, I don't believe that
2012-12-13 07:51:15 AM
1 votes:

teeny: Damn you for posting an article where I have to side with the HOA.

Merry goddamn Christmas.


Hey I agree too. Wanna make it a Christmas decoration? Make it out of lights.

www.meijer.com

THAT's a Christmas decoration, not your flimsy POS sign.

/still think it's plain tacky.
//doesn't decorate house with seasonal lights anyways.
2012-12-13 07:31:36 AM
1 votes:

Omahawg: No, it's "art", dummy. It's always "art" and then hand them the business card of the local chapter of the ACLU


And the makes perfect sense because:

a. 'Art' enjoys some special status that affords it protection not available to mere religious speach; and

b. The ACLU routinely gets involved in contract disputes between private parties.

Got it.
2012-12-13 06:54:12 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I hate HOAs, but:

"It shouldn't be considered a sign. It should be considered my Christmas decorations," he said.

No asshole, it's a sign. It's not even a decorative sign. It's just a sign.


I hate Jesus, Christmas and America as much as the next atheist, but damned if I know who to root for here. "Fish or cut bait" indeed.
2012-12-13 06:28:53 AM
1 votes:

wildlifer: You want to get under the skin of a HOA? Gophers released onto their lawn or slugs released into flower beds. Let nature fight dirty for you.


And if we catch you, you'll be buying us a new communal lawn, and paying our legal fees for the privilege. And possible getting a criminal record as well.

Our lawn...stay off it.
2012-12-13 05:40:09 AM
1 votes:

PaLarkin: There's an easy way to get around this.

Make several 2 foot by 2 foot signs.

Print a portion of the big sign on each one.

Attach the signs to a wall in the right order so the HOA compliant signs display the same message the original sign did.

When asshat HOA drone comes by to biatch about it, point out to him/her/it the ever so slight gap between them and tell him/her/it this makes them seperate signs.


I would bet money that there is a limit on the number of signs that can be displayed.
2012-12-13 05:33:58 AM
1 votes:

Gordon Bennett: Omahawg: No, it's "art", dummy. It's always "art" and then hand them the business card of the local chapter of the ACLU

After that you can admire your signature on the deed including the clause in which you agreed to abide by the HOA's rules.


HOA trumps 1st amendment?

who are these weird people who want to live in these places?
2012-12-13 03:29:48 AM
1 votes:

spqr_ca: Why is it that the flamboyant displays of modern religion are always gaudy and hideous? Is there any religious person with a sense of taste anymore?


www.dalailama.com
"Ahem......."
2012-12-13 03:16:25 AM
1 votes:
So... when will the Union busting politicals get off their asses and bust the HOA/COAs?

It's a strong grouping of people forcing the same rules upon everybody and as soon as you move into their territory you have to pay them to be a part of it whether you like it or not.

Perhaps a "Right to Buy Law" would be needed.....
2012-12-13 03:00:27 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I hate HOAs, but:

"It shouldn't be considered a sign. It should be considered my Christmas decorations," he said.

No asshole, it's a sign. It's not even a decorative sign. It's just a sign.


I'm of the opposite mind.

Normally I'd be against neighbors putting up a sign about Jesus. I like the Nativity because there's cows and shiat. It's cool farming action. But I'm not Christian and I don't need to see the J-word at Yuletide.

But in this case, it farks with an HOA. I hope he wins just because of that.
2012-12-13 02:52:47 AM
1 votes:
I'm torn, here. On one hand, I hate HOAs. I think they're one of the worst inventions ever and exist purely to separate otherwise good people from their money.

On the other hand, considering that sign, this guy is a douchecanoe and deserves whatever he gets.
2012-12-13 02:47:45 AM
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Whyat Would Jesus Decorate?


Who decorates for their own birthday?
2012-12-13 02:44:53 AM
1 votes:

CaptSS: HOA's cover appx 25 million homes in the US. It's not always as simple as just spouting off don't move there


The funny part about most people who complain about their HOA is they don't ever go to the monthly meetings. You want to fix your HOA, or have input in it's operation? Go to the meetings, participate, democracy.
2012-12-13 02:31:24 AM
1 votes:

1000 Ways to Dye: AverageAmericanGuy: Earth's procession axial tilt is the reason for the season. Pagan ritual is the reason for the seasonal celebration. Christian usurpation of the pagan ritual is the reason it has any meaning for Christians, but that's quite a bit of after-the-fact meaning assignment.

FTFY.

Also, I think you meant precession, and that is the change in the tilt itself.


DID I STUTTER??
2012-12-13 02:30:49 AM
1 votes:

CantConfirmOrDeny: Surely it is a sign of the apocalypse ... I'm agreeing with the HOA.


It just better be a sign that's 2' x 2' or less.
2012-12-13 02:26:09 AM
1 votes:
Personally, I'd want him to be allowed to keep the sign, just so I would never forget which house belongs to the pushy douchecanoe.

/down with HOAs
//down with God-botherers
2012-12-13 02:25:50 AM
1 votes:

styckx: Ugh.. Pushy over the top agenda driven religious assholes.. Just as bad as pushy over the top agenda driven atheists.


Which do you hear more from? You are just as bad as the BSABSVR crowd, you know that, right?
2012-12-13 02:23:30 AM
1 votes:
I'd put up a sign of Bastet and Anubis. Just because I could.
2012-12-13 12:23:11 AM
1 votes:

Mominator: At this point, the sign is still there. I'm asking a question, and I honestly would be interested in hearing the answer from that homeowner. Is he protesting against the HOA's restrictions, or is this a sort of "I'm Christian so I can get away with this" thing?


I thinks it's more of a "I'm a Christian, and this is OUR holiday, and my god is bigger than your god, and I'm doing this as a religious duty - RELIGIOUS duty, mind you, so how dare you tell me I can't put up a sign if I want to" thing.
2012-12-13 12:14:20 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Mominator: Submitter here... I'm trying to get one of my friends who lives in that same neighborhood to put up a 2 foot by 2 foot sign that he wanted to put up (he says he's too lazy and doesn't want to get vandalized) that says "Axial tilt: the reason for the season". 

I commented in the paper as well, asking: I wonder if one of his neighbors put up a Happy Hanukkah sign the same size as his, and put blue and white lights around it, or a sign saying "Merry Kwanzaa" or a sign wishing people a Merry Solstice, would he be leading the pack in requiring them to be removed?

Why would he? The HOA is requiring it to be removed. In general, people who run afoul of HOA rules aren't the kind of people who enforce HOA rules.


At this point, the sign is still there. I'm asking a question, and I honestly would be interested in hearing the answer from that homeowner. Is he protesting against the HOA's restrictions, or is this a sort of "I'm Christian so I can get away with this" thing?
2012-12-13 12:06:51 AM
1 votes:

81250742" target="_blank">spqr_ca: Why is it that the flamboyant displays of modern religion are always gaudy and hideous? Is there any religious person with a sense of taste anymore?


lib.store.yahoo.net
2012-12-12 09:17:47 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: No asshole, it's a sign. It's not even a decorative sign. It's just a sign.


This. The guy's just using the season to give him a reason to break HOA rules, which, while they're as popular as VDs around here, are to keep idiots like this from doing what he's doing.
2012-12-12 09:16:53 PM
1 votes:

Ed Finnerty: And the meek shall inherit the Earth.



...which is,of course, why he should be meeker and adhere to the HOA bylaw.
2012-12-12 08:14:16 PM
1 votes:
I hate HOAs, but:

"It shouldn't be considered a sign. It should be considered my Christmas decorations," he said.

No asshole, it's a sign. It's not even a decorative sign. It's just a sign.
 
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