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(The Daily Beast)   Mall employee on shooting: "I wish my boyfriend was there. He's played a lot of Call of Duty and has a lot of knowledge about guns and what to do in a tight spot"   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 232
    More: Stupid, semi-automatic rifle, ores, Call of Duty, Clackamas County, The Daily Beast, Sharon Baggs, Alina Pazlenko, guns  
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7588 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2012 at 2:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



232 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-12 04:32:47 PM  

TheSteamingPile: Kazrath: BHShaman: Let's check in and see in this simulation how well that CoD and the Airsoft folks do with real firearms (shooting real ammo tipped with paint blotters) and in a simulation based on recent events....

Pops

Sorry, but I watched the whole video and that testing was VERY flawed.

#1 The student always sat in the same place for each test
#2 The "Gunman" did exactly the same thing in each scenario. Walk out, shoot the instructor. Turn, fire at the student sitting in step one location.

If the test was more randomized the results would have been quite a bit different.

I am not arguing one main point made in the video. Training for those circumstances will make you react better. There is no doubt about that. I am just complaining about the flawed test being used to "Drive home a point" when the test was geared for failure. I suspect it could have been a trained, active, navy seal and the results would have been the same due to the "script" the gunman was able to play.

Yep, you took the words right off of my fingertips. How many times, in a real world scenario, is a 'bad guy' going to know who the only person in the room with a concealed weapon is AND exactly where they are sitting. Hardly scientific, but then again, the anti-gun lobby will do anything to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.

Also, don't forget, this woman's 'boyfriend' would have had to called the killers sexuality into question at least a dozen times.


I don't want you to misunderstand me here.

If this scenario was run properly:

* Gunman was told he is doing a social experiment on how a classroom reacts to a gunman opening fire. He is given 2 magazines and told to kill as many people as he can w/o leaving the class room. Run this one time before introducing a CHL.

* CHL is doing a (CHL training / gun training) class. Is the only one in the classroom provided a firearm and is told to not let anyone know he has the weapon.

Start scenario:

If the scenario was run 3-5 times with a single CHL. Then run 3-5 times with 3 - 4 CHL in the classroom and they used a different gunman every time the scenario would at least be accurate. The CHL would not realize the gunman would show up. The gunman would not know there were CHL in the classroom.

If the results ended up being very negative overall then I would agree that having CHL in a classroom is a bad idea. However, if having 3-4 CHL provided significantly better results than 0 or 1 I would be completely for CHL on campus. And if the results were very mixed then "Your best judgement" for the colleges is fine.
 
2012-12-12 04:33:39 PM  

BHShaman: Kazrath: BHShaman: Let's check in and see in this simulation how well that CoD and the Airsoft folks do with real firearms (shooting real ammo tipped with paint blotters) and in a simulation based on recent events....

Pops

Sorry, but I watched the whole video and that testing was VERY flawed.

#1 The student always sat in the same place for each test
#2 The "Gunman" did exactly the same thing in each scenario. Walk out, shoot the instructor. Turn, fire at the student sitting in step one location.

If the test was more randomized the results would have been quite a bit different.



Right. If the shooter came into the room and started shooting random people instead of following his script then there would be a whole lot of dead people and maybe a dead shooter. The point was to quickly demonstrate the reactive abilities of someone who has gone through a typical CCW. Which was accurately portrayed.

I know people who went through CCW and have NEVER OWNED A GUN. They walked out with a permit with no promise of ever even practicing with one before loading up and hitting the streets.

CCW are valid, people should be able to get them,
There should be more to the license than a mostly verbal course and some basic firearm instruction.
Even a driver's license requires you to show you can navigate a road.
CCW should require a proficiency test through a shooting gallery.


This, I have no argument with.
 
2012-12-12 04:35:00 PM  

BHShaman: vegasj: Can't find a better anti-gun source?

While the video is obviously slanted, the simulation speaks volumes.

The comment was more towards mall ninjas, airsoft, and CoD players who think their hot shiat because they can go get a real gun, aim straight, and then qualify for a CCW. Then, assume they will be kicking ass and taking names.

BTW... I've shot guns since I was 5. My Dad was a SWAT member.
People don't know shiat about what it takes to handle a real situation with real people and real pullets.
Unless you have had significant tactical training, your best bet is to either run like hell or, failing that opportunity, play dead. A CCW WILL NOT help most people. And that is not an "anti-gun' statement.



i641.photobucket.com

Real pullets.
 
2012-12-12 04:35:08 PM  
You need to check your White Man reason and logic at the door. This is fark.
 
2012-12-12 04:36:28 PM  
I've played a lot of oCD, so I could have totally counted how many rounds the guy fired, exactly.
 
2012-12-12 04:38:45 PM  
If only my boyfriend was there. He plays a lot of Assassin's Creed, so he would have snuck behind the shooter, stabbed him in the throat, then run off to fist fight the Pope at the Vatican, bang an Italian countess and rescue Leonard DiVinci from the Templars.
 
2012-12-12 04:39:33 PM  

DaCaptain19: Dixon Cider: DaCaptain19: Jesus-f*ckin-Christ.

She should be kicked in the coont until dead. F*cking U.S. is so SO stupid.

I say that as a gun owner. If you own a pistol and you're not shooting 100 rounds or more per month at the range? Just f*cking melt the damn gun down. You clearly cannot be a responsible owner if you have no idea or training or don't continue to practice on how to actually hit your target.

For a country that has guns as part of its culture (U.S.) it is sad that 99.9999999% of our people are totally ignorant and/or plain retarded when it comes to using/owning guns. "OOooooo - 3 people died!" Do you know how many f*ckers died that very day from smoking-related illnesses?

Call of Duty....f*cking shiat for brains, you dumb-f*ck chick.

Spent 12 years in the USMC Infantry and I find your statement to be of the Highest Quality Derp!
Maybe you need all those hours, but you should shut your caulk holster about how the rest of decide to maintain our skillzzzzz.
Another spastic gun owner.. awesome.

Another trained gun owner. You apparently don't know shiat AND you are a first-class liar. So...bye.



Ahhhh, did your little feelers get bent out of shape? You must suck at shooting as much as you do posting here...
Poor child. You couldn't wait to get your dick skinners on the keyboard and all you had to say was this?

tisk tisk, Scooter!
 
2012-12-12 04:43:40 PM  

Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.


It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.
 
2012-12-12 04:44:03 PM  
Bah, everyone knows that internet gambling is where real men are made. Link
 
2012-12-12 04:50:41 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: I played a lot of Pac Man, so I'd take a giant pill and then run around trying to eat the ghosts that spent my life fleeing from.


Make sure you keep calling "wooka-wooka-wooka-wooka" or it won't work.
 
2012-12-12 04:51:13 PM  

azmarine: Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.

It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.


i641.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-12 04:51:46 PM  

azmarine: Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.

It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.


Lighten up, Francis. Its a local meme. Pocket Ninja is legendary around here.
 
2012-12-12 04:51:53 PM  

azmarine: Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.

It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.


He's been here since 2003, he knows that and you should keep your trap shut unless you enjoy pulling hooks from your cheek?
 
2012-12-12 04:53:39 PM  
Lag switches and wall hacks don't work too well in real life.
 
2012-12-12 04:53:49 PM  
Pocket Ninja clan springs to action from the shadowed rafters and then disappears in a cloud of smoke.
 
2012-12-12 04:56:35 PM  
I love the Marine Core.
 
2012-12-12 04:56:43 PM  

azmarine: Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.

It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.


Marine Core Soldiers...

Moran.
 
2012-12-12 04:57:58 PM  
Hey in Texas we require a 10 hour class including a live fire proficiency test for CCW.

But were all stupid, trailer trash, rednecks clinging to Jesus so what do we know?
 
2012-12-12 04:59:04 PM  
CSB:

I had just returned home from WLC training, which is what you have to take in the Army when you make sergeant. So we'd spent a little over a week straight in the woods, doing squad level scenarios - convoy hit by IED, flanking maneuvers, tactical patrol, room clearing, suppressive fire while waiting for air support, on and on and on. Most of the class was on the short list for either Iraq or Afghanistan, so the instructors took it very seriously.

Was in Best Buy the weekend following, and tried out Call of Duty on Xbox/PS3/whatever, since no one was on and the store was almost empty. Within 2 minutes I had a couple of teenagers behind me screaming things like "YOU CAN'T JUST FIRE FROM BEHIND THE CONCRETE BUNKER!! RUN OUT IN THE OPEN AND ZIGZAG SO THEY CAN'T HIT YOU!!"

While making a casual exit, I could hear them discussing how 99% of the public wouldn't know how to survive a real firefight. They were entirely serious.
 
2012-12-12 04:59:38 PM  

DaCaptain19: Marcus Aurelius: If he was really on top of things, he would have noticed the shooter was firing an AR-15, and then simply waited for the thing to jam.

You must have a really cheap AR-15. My Colt H-Bar Match Competition AR-15 never has jammed on me once. And I shoot it a LOT. Of course I also clean and oil my guns - you know - maintenance? That helps as well.


I was only half joking. I don't own an AR. I read a report that the shooter's gun jammed at some point. After the Aurora's AR-15 jammed on him, I'd have thought these random shooters would be clued in to WASR 10's or some such.

Lucky for us, they haven't...

/sees lots of AR-15s being fiddled with at the range, they always blame the ammo
 
2012-12-12 05:00:07 PM  

azmarine: Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.

It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.


um, I've seen enough of PN's post to believe that's I think that's part of the joke.

(could be a screw up, but the recruiting part is definitely a joke on his part)
 
2012-12-12 05:02:17 PM  

Odd Bird: um, I've seen enough of PN's post to believe that's I think that's part of the joke.


well well, plenty of others responded and I failed to review my own post. (FAIL)
 
2012-12-12 05:06:40 PM  
Remember: if you are shot, take cover immediately and wait. So long as you are not shot again, your body will eventually fully regenerate.
 
2012-12-12 05:08:41 PM  

Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.


I know right...I keep telling em I'm too old but they keep calling. nOObs......
 
2012-12-12 05:09:28 PM  

Kazrath: TheSteamingPile: Kazrath: BHShaman: Let's check in and see in this simulation how well that CoD and the Airsoft folks do with real firearms (shooting real ammo tipped with paint blotters) and in a simulation based on recent events....

Pops

Sorry, but I watched the whole video and that testing was VERY flawed.

#1 The student always sat in the same place for each test
#2 The "Gunman" did exactly the same thing in each scenario. Walk out, shoot the instructor. Turn, fire at the student sitting in step one location.

If the test was more randomized the results would have been quite a bit different.

I am not arguing one main point made in the video. Training for those circumstances will make you react better. There is no doubt about that. I am just complaining about the flawed test being used to "Drive home a point" when the test was geared for failure. I suspect it could have been a trained, active, navy seal and the results would have been the same due to the "script" the gunman was able to play.

Yep, you took the words right off of my fingertips. How many times, in a real world scenario, is a 'bad guy' going to know who the only person in the room with a concealed weapon is AND exactly where they are sitting. Hardly scientific, but then again, the anti-gun lobby will do anything to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.

Also, don't forget, this woman's 'boyfriend' would have had to called the killers sexuality into question at least a dozen times.

I don't want you to misunderstand me here.

If this scenario was run properly:

* Gunman was told he is doing a social experiment on how a classroom reacts to a gunman opening fire. He is given 2 magazines and told to kill as many people as he can w/o leaving the class room. Run this one time before introducing a CHL.

* CHL is doing a (CHL training / gun training) class. Is the only one in the classroom provided a firearm and is told to not let anyone know he has the weapon.

Start scenario:

If the scenario was ...


Also, instead of a the firearm training instructor doing the shooting, have another equally unskilled psychopath in that person's shoes. The cop entered the classroom like he was doing a police breach and went right for the kid with the gun within seconds.

The argument that a chl holder is not as good as a highly trained police officer does not equal an argument that nobody should be able to carry a gun. At least the student had an opportunity to defend himself and go down fighting rather than cower and hope that the gunman didn't select him to kill next.
 
2012-12-12 05:18:35 PM  

Somacandra: I love the Marine Core.


cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2012-12-12 05:19:18 PM  

Somacandra: azmarine: Pocket Ninja: It's a well known fact that the marine core watches online game boards and tries to recruit the elite Call of Duty gamers.

It's the Marine Corps and you are a moron.

Lighten up, Francis. Its a local meme. Pocket Ninja is legendary around here.


Lighen up, Francis. Some people don't care about or pay attention to stupid memes. LOL LOLL SDFLKSDJF LODLLllolllol
 
2012-12-12 05:22:33 PM  
DaCaptain19: Yeah...and when you have a real gun pointed at you or shooting around you, all you'll do is piss/sh*t you pants. But you seem an expert and I am 100% positive that your mind will be so filled with clarity that you will coldly and rationally dispatch said armed person. Or escape. Or remember any f*cking thing from COD.One major learning of a CCH course (mine was taught by a retired cop...still training cops and marines on marksmanship and was actually once a Texas Ranger)...shooting is easy. Shooting a person is difficult. Shooting an armed person - staying cool, keeping your focus on your sights and NOT the target? Extremely difficult.  And this is assuming, even, that you are properly trained in your gun. COD? You wouldn't know what to do with a gun if it were handed to you.



---------------------


Hey genius, I wasn't even talking about shooting in these situations, I was mulling over what you might learn in a game that could help you get away. Understanding that reloading is a factor would be the biggest one I can think of. Most people know about guns from TV, where, apparently, 500 round pistol magazines exist. A gamer MIGHT know better and be able to translate that knowledge into picking the right moment to run or jump on the freak.

You can say a game doesn't translate to real life all you like, but I soloed an aircraft after just a few hours of real flight time thanks to MS Flight Sim.

I'll leave the hero fantasies to some of the others here.
 
2012-12-12 05:24:19 PM  
Hmm, it edits out comments related to the letter F then the letter b then the subtraction symbol. When did that start?
 
2012-12-12 05:29:43 PM  
I'm a Fallout player myself, I would have snuck up behind him in my Chinese stealth armor and sucker punched him with a power fist. Then I'd strip the dead body of his armor and weapons to sell for caps.
 
2012-12-12 05:31:02 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: A gamer MIGHT know better and be able to translate that knowledge into picking the right moment to run or jump on the freak.


Extremely unlikely. Most games (especially the aforementioned Call of Duty) have nothing to do with real tactics or guns. The relationship is much like Guitar Hero vs actually playing on stage with a band; any similarities are purely cosmetic. It's even worse with games like CoD, where the tactics required to be good at the game are often the exact opposite of what will keep you alive in meatspace.

/I'm not saying gamers don't/can't have any combat/survival skills, just that they aren't getting them from games.
 
2012-12-12 05:35:20 PM  

plcow: Kazrath: TheSteamingPile: Kazrath: BHShaman: Let's check in and see in this simulation how well that CoD and the Airsoft folks do with real firearms (shooting real ammo tipped with paint blotters) and in a simulation based on recent events....

Pops

Sorry, but I watched the whole video and that testing was VERY flawed.

#1 The student always sat in the same place for each test
#2 The "Gunman" did exactly the same thing in each scenario. Walk out, shoot the instructor. Turn, fire at the student sitting in step one location.

If the test was more randomized the results would have been quite a bit different.

I am not arguing one main point made in the video. Training for those circumstances will make you react better. There is no doubt about that. I am just complaining about the flawed test being used to "Drive home a point" when the test was geared for failure. I suspect it could have been a trained, active, navy seal and the results would have been the same due to the "script" the gunman was able to play.

Yep, you took the words right off of my fingertips. How many times, in a real world scenario, is a 'bad guy' going to know who the only person in the room with a concealed weapon is AND exactly where they are sitting. Hardly scientific, but then again, the anti-gun lobby will do anything to restrict the rights and freedoms of others.

Also, don't forget, this woman's 'boyfriend' would have had to called the killers sexuality into question at least a dozen times.

I don't want you to misunderstand me here.

If this scenario was run properly:

* Gunman was told he is doing a social experiment on how a classroom reacts to a gunman opening fire. He is given 2 magazines and told to kill as many people as he can w/o leaving the class room. Run this one time before introducing a CHL.

* CHL is doing a (CHL training / gun training) class. Is the only one in the classroom provided a firearm and is told to not let anyone know he has the weapon.

Start scenario:

If the scenario was ...

Also, instead of a the firearm training instructor doing the shooting, have another equally unskilled psychopath in that person's shoes. The cop entered the classroom like he was doing a police breach and went right for the kid with the gun within seconds.

The argument that a chl holder is not as good as a highly trained police officer does not equal an argument that nobody should be able to carry a gun. At least the student had an opportunity to defend himself and go down fighting rather than cower and hope that the gunman didn't select him to kill next.


It seemed like there were several flaws in that video. I like your idea better.
 
2012-12-12 05:52:00 PM  
I don't want to brag, but I'm pretty deep into Dishonored so I would have possessed a rat and run out of the mall. This chick's boyfriend is an amateur.
 
2012-12-12 06:12:43 PM  

scalpod: Pocket Ninja clan springs to action from the shadowed rafters and then disappears in a cloud of smoke.


THAT'S NOT SMOKE
 
2012-12-12 06:12:51 PM  
Noticeably F.A.T.: Insatiable Jesus: A gamer MIGHT know better and be able to translate that knowledge into picking the right moment to run or jump on the freak.

Extremely unlikely. Most games (especially the aforementioned Call of Duty) have nothing to do with real tactics or guns. The relationship is much like Guitar Hero vs actually playing on stage with a band; any similarities are purely cosmetic. It's even worse with games like CoD, where the tactics required to be good at the game are often the exact opposite of what will keep you alive in meatspace.

/I'm not saying gamers don't/can't have any combat/survival skills, just that they aren't getting them from games.



---------------------------------


You say "extremely unlikely" to something posited with a bold MIGHT. You must really make a lot of money as a psychic.

I guess militaries around the world are using FPS games because they DON'T teach anything. That nothing from a game which simulates real life will translate into the real world. Just understanding the basic differences inherent in being confronted with an AR vs a handgun MIGHT be enough to afford someone the chance to escape. Understanding that a concrete wall is better to hide behind than a wooden counter MIGHT be enough. Understanding that reloads are necessary and time consuming MIGHT be enough.

I'm not arguing the particular game title or the platform it's played on, I'll leave that to you as you try and re-engineer the argument.
 
2012-12-12 06:13:36 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: In a properly organized society everyone in the vicinity of the shooter would have slapped leather and perforated him with a pound and half of lead.

But nooo ... guns are dangerous. Granny should not have a gun. Only the insane and possessed should have guns.


Wow. Now there's an image. A very, very bloody image.

/Might make a good SNL skit, though.
 
2012-12-12 06:17:37 PM  
Noticeably F.A.T.: It's even worse with games like CoD, where the tactics required to be good at the game are often the exact opposite of what will keep you alive in meatspace.



-------------------

And No Shiat Sherlock. Except that the object of COD isn't to merely survive and get off the map. A gamer pulling out dual wield 44s and going auto aim on a mall shooter is fantasy. The idea that some kid huddled behind a counter knows that the shooter nearby will have to reload (thanks to him knowing something that he might not otherwise have understood) eventually is an entirely different animal.
 
2012-12-12 06:20:53 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: Except that the object of COD isn't to merely survive and get off the map.


In fact, that's the best way to lose. Hiding in a corner and never getting shot or shooting at anyone gets you a 0/0 and probably kicked for inactivity.
 
2012-12-12 06:29:07 PM  
Her next stupid comment was "No. 1 was, like, don't move. So unpredictable. If he just decides to take a right-hand turn, this might be my last day."

No honey - If you're not moving, shooting or reloading while moving, you're about to be dead.
 
2012-12-12 06:38:10 PM  

Lsherm: I don't want to brag, but I'm pretty deep into Dishonored so I would have possessed a rat and run out of the mall. This chick's boyfriend is an amateur.


+1
 
2012-12-12 06:38:32 PM  
I've played a lot of Duke Nukem in my life, so if i was there, i'd have taken my steroids, and kicked him.
Then, i'd have gone and tipped a few strippers.
 
2012-12-12 06:42:06 PM  

offmymeds: Somacandra: I love the Marine Core.

[cdn.motinetwork.net image 640x853]


I'm saving that one as a rebuttal to the "There's Strong and there's Army Strong, but fortunately we still have the Marines" pic that gets posted sometimes, with the corpulently fat soldier in PTs by the lean marine.
 
2012-12-12 07:00:52 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: And No Shiat Sherlock. Except that the object of COD isn't to merely survive and get off the map. A gamer pulling out dual wield 44s and going auto aim on a mall shooter is fantasy. The idea that some kid huddled behind a counter knows that the shooter nearby will have to reload (thanks to him knowing something that he might not otherwise have understood) eventually is an entirely different animal.


Ok. You keep telling yourself that your awesome FPS skills are going to save your ass. I'll keep receiving training from people who know what the hell they are doing.
 
2012-12-12 07:17:57 PM  

BSABSVR: Albert911emt: Someone actually said that stupid sh*t? I mean, someone actually put those words together into that sentence, and then said it out loud? Wow.

It's no different than when half of fark totally would have blown away the Aurora shooter had only they been there.


Yeah, we'll those ITGs can have it, while I'm running to the nearest bar to have a drink of something to calm my nerves.
 
2012-12-12 07:31:46 PM  
This may be the thread of the year.
 
2012-12-12 07:39:47 PM  
Noticeably F.A.T.: Insatiable Jesus: And No Shiat Sherlock. Except that the object of COD isn't to merely survive and get off the map. A gamer pulling out dual wield 44s and going auto aim on a mall shooter is fantasy. The idea that some kid huddled behind a counter knows that the shooter nearby will have to reload (thanks to him knowing something that he might not otherwise have understood) eventually is an entirely different animal.

Ok. You keep telling yourself that your awesome FPS skills are going to save your ass. I'll keep receiving training from people who know what the hell they are doing.



---------------------------------------

You have a real knack for reading things that I never wrote. Where did I ever say that "FPS skills" are going to save my ass? Or anybody's ass? What I said was that it is POSSIBLE that somebody MAY learn something about small arms combat from playing a game that they wouldn't otherwise have learned and that COULD be enough to make a difference between them living and dying.

Your reading comprehension skills, inability to argue logically and, now, your declaration of being an Internet Tough Guy all make you a perfect candidate for being colored pink on my screen. Now go back to turbating to Guns N Ammo and eating butter or whatever you morons do, tough guy.
 
2012-12-12 07:42:20 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: I can see where having played those types of games might make one better suited than the average person to getting out of a hairy situation involving gunfire. Even in an FPS game cover and concealment are critical. An instinctive understanding of the fact that reload cycle takes time might save somebody's life. Maybe you see the mass shooter drop his AR and pull out a pistol at 50 yards and know that he probably doesn't have a chance in hell of hitting you and you take that moment to run. Or knowing that checking behind you is key.

Not saying it makes anybody an expert at small arms combat, only that some things might be learned that otherwise you would be ignorant of.


Yeah but the wheezing and pants shiatting would probably interfere with remembering all of that.
 
2012-12-12 07:43:29 PM  
Is her boyfreind Mark Walberg?


/good vibrations
//say hi to your mother for me
 
2012-12-12 08:00:07 PM  

illannoyin: /People still go to the mall?


Heck, yeah! My favorite song is "Let's Go to the Mall" by some Cannuck chick.
 
2012-12-12 08:01:04 PM  
I used to play a lot of Leisure Suit Larry so when her BF gets mowed down I can roofie her and earn my Brown Belt.
 
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