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(LA Times)   Most popular Wolf in Yellowstone killed by hunter. Where is your Red Riding Hood now?   (latimes.com) divider line 279
    More: Sad, Little Red Riding Hood, Yellowstone, animal liberation movement, hunters, contiguous United States  
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9325 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2012 at 2:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-12 04:09:00 PM

Glitchwerks: Marc Cooke with the group Wolves of the Rockies alleged hunters were targeting collared animals, either for bragging rights or out of spite for wolf restoration in the Northern Rockies.


Not exactly rock-solid, but even if it's true, seems like a douchebaggy thing to do.
 
2012-12-12 04:10:07 PM
How does a wolf become alpha with a big dorky transmitter around its neck?
 
2012-12-12 04:11:23 PM

Slaves2Darkness: heidinoele: Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

Whatever. They do not decimate anything. There are only a few of them.

This argument makes me so angry. The people who move to the mountains and then are SHOCKED that there are mountain lions and bears piss me off beyond reason. You're an idiot If you move to the freaking mountains and then are surprised that a mountain lion eats your poodle or a bear gets into your hot tub. If you put a bunch of prey in a place where there are wolves, you shouldn't be surprised when a few get taken. I live where there are coyotes. None of my animals have been eaten by them because I take precautions and I'm not a farking idiot.

Heh, I live in Illinois and a hidden camera got pictures of a cougar on one of our pick trails last year. Here kitty, kitty, kitty.


More and more being seen i michigan now too, pretty cool:
http://www.freep.com/article/20121128/NEWS06/121128046/Michigan-DNR-v e rifies-3-Upper-Peninsula-cougar-photos
 
2012-12-12 04:14:22 PM

mortimer_ford: How does a wolf become alpha with a big dorky transmitter around its neck?


No kidding, they might as well just put giant orthodontic retainers on them. "ERMAHGERD, HUNTERS!!"
 
2012-12-12 04:14:22 PM

mortimer_ford: How does a wolf become alpha with a big dorky transmitter around its neck?


Maybe she cut an album.

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-12 04:14:44 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Keizer_Ghidorah: Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

And I just noticed this part, and the stupid now burns.


I think he got that from the award winning national geographic documentary, The Gray.
 
2012-12-12 04:15:33 PM

superdude72: Compared to how many millions of cattle? Surely some way can be found to compensate ranchers for their losses without completely destroying the natural ecosystem.


They have. however, it is only good if you can prove that it was a wolf kill via a necropsy. also, the hunting season seems to keep most of the wolves away from the ranches during the fall/winter/spring. Seems to be working out pretty well.

As for "decimating" deer, elk, and other wildlife. Well, yeah. That's what wolves are supposed to do.

No, wolves were never supposed to decimate these populations. Controlled predation is fine, but when the depredation ends up drastically reducing big game herds, this hits the State Wildlife Agencies (and most conservation programs) right in the pocketbook. Best to keep a small population of wolves and a larger prey base where you can continue to issue hunting tags and keep that revenue flowing to state wildlife managemnt agencies.
 
2012-12-12 04:15:46 PM

please: mortimer_ford: How does a wolf become alpha with a big dorky transmitter around its neck?

No kidding, they might as well just put giant orthodontic retainers on them. "ERMAHGERD, HUNTERS!!"


By kicking ass. You're not going to be laughing at the guy with braces after he beats your face in.
 
2012-12-12 04:16:15 PM

buck1138: Keizer_Ghidorah: Keizer_Ghidorah: Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

And I just noticed this part, and the stupid now burns.

I think he got that from the award winning national geographic documentary, The Gray.


I haven't watched "Wolf-Puncher" yet, how is it?
 
2012-12-12 04:19:13 PM

HeadLever: superdude72: Compared to how many millions of cattle? Surely some way can be found to compensate ranchers for their losses without completely destroying the natural ecosystem.

They have. however, it is only good if you can prove that it was a wolf kill via a necropsy. also, the hunting season seems to keep most of the wolves away from the ranches during the fall/winter/spring. Seems to be working out pretty well.

As for "decimating" deer, elk, and other wildlife. Well, yeah. That's what wolves are supposed to do.

No, wolves were never supposed to decimate these populations. Controlled predation is fine, but when the depredation ends up drastically reducing big game herds, this hits the State Wildlife Agencies (and most conservation programs) right in the pocketbook. Best to keep a small population of wolves and a larger prey base where you can continue to issue hunting tags and keep that revenue flowing to state wildlife managemnt agencies.


According to your article the populations of both groups are getting smaller. There are more factors than just the wolves at play here.

I will admit that you know a lot more about the subject than I do so I may be off base. It just seems that the wolves are being blamed for a larger problem.
 
2012-12-12 04:19:36 PM
w65.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-12 04:19:59 PM

HeadLever: superdude72: Compared to how many millions of cattle? Surely some way can be found to compensate ranchers for their losses without completely destroying the natural ecosystem.

They have. however, it is only good if you can prove that it was a wolf kill via a necropsy. also, the hunting season seems to keep most of the wolves away from the ranches during the fall/winter/spring. Seems to be working out pretty well.

As for "decimating" deer, elk, and other wildlife. Well, yeah. That's what wolves are supposed to do.

No, wolves were never supposed to decimate these populations. Controlled predation is fine, but when the depredation ends up drastically reducing big game herds, this hits the State Wildlife Agencies (and most conservation programs) right in the pocketbook. Best to keep a small population of wolves and a larger prey base where you can continue to issue hunting tags and keep that revenue flowing to state wildlife managemnt agencies.


Do you know what the word decimate means?
 
2012-12-12 04:20:12 PM

HeadLever: superdude72: Compared to how many millions of cattle? Surely some way can be found to compensate ranchers for their losses without completely destroying the natural ecosystem.

They have. however, it is only good if you can prove that it was a wolf kill via a necropsy. also, the hunting season seems to keep most of the wolves away from the ranches during the fall/winter/spring. Seems to be working out pretty well.

As for "decimating" deer, elk, and other wildlife. Well, yeah. That's what wolves are supposed to do.

No, wolves were never supposed to decimate these populations. Controlled predation is fine, but when the depredation ends up drastically reducing big game herds, this hits the State Wildlife Agencies (and most conservation programs) right in the pocketbook. Best to keep a small population of wolves and a larger prey base where you can continue to issue hunting tags and keep that revenue flowing to state wildlife managemnt agencies.


Of course, if we'd stop carving up the land into small chunks of land where wildlife is forced to be crowded into, maybe we wouldn't have to slaughter the predators. The whole predator-prey relationship worked for billions of years, and still works today where nature has room and is left alone.
 
2012-12-12 04:21:09 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Smegg
I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.


Actually, this point is legitimate. Here in Idaho, wolves are one of the main causes of declines in big game populations to the point where hunting tags were drastically reduced and in some cases, completley eliminated from certain areas. This not only pisses off hunters, but this also reduces revenue to the state which typically spends this money on wildlife and conservation type programs.
 
2012-12-12 04:21:23 PM

browntimmy: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I still don't understand hunting, even when hunters aren't shooting popular animals. A bunch of fat, illiterate drunks stumble out into the woods at dawn, sit around in a wooden chair in the cold until mid-afternoon (or they get too drunk and fall out) and take potshots at wandering, defenseless wildlife in the meantime.

This is somehow "hunting".

When you manage to kill something by tracking it and fighting it to the death with your bare hands, I'll stop calling you fat, illiterate drunks and start calling you hunters. Not a moment sooner.


That's my take too. You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon. i don't get a thrill when I step on spiders.


I'm gay, I could give two farks about your "manliness points," but they aren't even worth that much. Hunt for food or population control... other than that, it's all just asshattery... That said, I'm not going to be bullied by someone who feels morally superior because they simply use their money to employ people to keep animals in concentration camp like conditions until they heads smashed in before someone carves them up in a far-away place and has their ground up innards sent to them via truck. There's no nice way to get any kind of meat, at least hunters are honest about it.
 
2012-12-12 04:27:01 PM

firefly212: browntimmy: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I still don't understand hunting, even when hunters aren't shooting popular animals. A bunch of fat, illiterate drunks stumble out into the woods at dawn, sit around in a wooden chair in the cold until mid-afternoon (or they get too drunk and fall out) and take potshots at wandering, defenseless wildlife in the meantime.

This is somehow "hunting".

When you manage to kill something by tracking it and fighting it to the death with your bare hands, I'll stop calling you fat, illiterate drunks and start calling you hunters. Not a moment sooner.


That's my take too. You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon. i don't get a thrill when I step on spiders.

I'm gay, I could give two farks about your "manliness points," but they aren't even worth that much. Hunt for food or population control... other than that, it's all just asshattery... That said, I'm not going to be bullied by someone who feels morally superior because they simply use their money to employ people to keep animals in concentration camp like conditions until they heads smashed in before someone carves them up in a far-away place and has their ground up innards sent to them via truck. There's no nice way to get any kind of meat, at least hunters are honest about it.


Nah guy, he's right, clearly the manliest of men descend into the deepest, darkest forests and do battle with the brutal tofu, carving the beastly beans in twain with naught but the glint of light shining off their pecs and a mean look.

/Brutal Tofu would be a weaksauce metal band
 
2012-12-12 04:27:43 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: please: mortimer_ford: How does a wolf become alpha with a big dorky transmitter around its neck?

No kidding, they might as well just put giant orthodontic retainers on them. "ERMAHGERD, HUNTERS!!"

By kicking ass. You're not going to be laughing at the guy with braces after he beats your face in.


You gotta admit it would be a solid threat. "I'm going to tear you a new asshole, record the GPS of where it happened and send the details to the University of Idaho."
 
2012-12-12 04:28:34 PM

Gunny Highway: According to your article the populations of both groups are getting smaller. There are more factors than just the wolves at play here.


That is for the Northern Yellowstone Herd in Montana. Here in Idaho, populations of wolves have been pretty steady for the last few years and elk populations have also leveld out some. From my persepctive, elk are changing thier habits quite a bit and hunting is keeping wolves pushed up into the backcountry. This is best for both species. More elk and less conflict with wolves.

You are right that there are more factors than just wolves, but as I have said, wolves are a big part of the equation. Another point that is missed is that during the mid 90s, there were too many elk around in many of these areas. Pretty much the same issues as Rocky Mountain National Park is going through right now. There needed to be a decline in many of these populations. However, in many cases, this went too far.
 
2012-12-12 04:29:55 PM

HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.


How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?
 
2012-12-12 04:30:05 PM
Wow good job. You killed something that couldn't defend itself. Congrats.
 
2012-12-12 04:32:25 PM

browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?


Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-12 04:32:32 PM

browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?


If all I squish is the head I'll pick it up, take it home and put it in the freezer with the rest. Why waste it?
 
2012-12-12 04:33:25 PM

sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]


That is quite possibly the most awesome thing I have ever seen anywhere. *Save as...*
 
2012-12-12 04:34:37 PM

sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]


You might be a redneck.
 
2012-12-12 04:34:51 PM

please: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

If all I squish is the head I'll pick it up, take it home and put it in the freezer with the rest. Why waste it?


images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-12-12 04:35:59 PM

sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]


and actually there is some pretty sweet squirrel taxidermy out there too, ninja moves, etc. Mounted squirrels go for more then you'd think too - they are small and goofy enough that people are willing to get them for kitsch value.

I should be getting the cape from my 10 point back in the spring, hair on. Can't wait, never had a cape done before!
 
2012-12-12 04:36:00 PM

HeadLever: Keizer_Ghidorah: Smegg
I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

Actually, this point is legitimate. Here in Idaho, wolves are one of the main causes of declines in big game populations to the point where hunting tags were drastically reduced and in some cases, completley eliminated from certain areas. This not only pisses off hunters, but this also reduces revenue to the state which typically spends this money on wildlife and conservation type programs.


Probably because of the limited space for wildlife to live in as well as humans hunting the elk as well. You can't blame the wolves for doing what they've been doing for a few million years.
 
2012-12-12 04:36:01 PM

jshine: So, we can kill these by the millions:
[www.saawinternational.org image 425x319]

...yet wolves are different somehow? Why? Whats the difference -- aside from how much wolves look like domestic pets.


Do the hunters eat the wolf? I justify the killing of cows with the creation of leather and hamburgers.
 
2012-12-12 04:36:13 PM

browntimmy: Fun activity?


Not for me.

Now fill a farmer's field full of Ground Squirrels and I'll perform extermination duties till the sun goes down.
 
2012-12-12 04:38:01 PM

browntimmy: sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]

You might be a redneck.


I'm from Wisconsin, I'm not a Redneck I'm a Snow-Honkey.
 
2012-12-12 04:43:11 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: HeadLever: Keizer_Ghidorah: Smegg
I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

Actually, this point is legitimate. Here in Idaho, wolves are one of the main causes of declines in big game populations to the point where hunting tags were drastically reduced and in some cases, completley eliminated from certain areas. This not only pisses off hunters, but this also reduces revenue to the state which typically spends this money on wildlife and conservation type programs.

Probably because of the limited space for wildlife to live in as well as humans hunting the elk as well. You can't blame the wolves for doing what they've been doing for a few million years.


Not sure if you are familiar with the Western US or not, but most of the land out here is public (no development). The county I grew up in is about the size of Connecticut, has a population of about 400 people and is 97% owned by the federal government. the space that wildlife has here is not really 'limited' in any sense of the word.

And no one is blaming the wolves for doing what they do. Thier population just need to be managed as with any other big game animal species.
 
2012-12-12 04:43:17 PM
Is this the thread where people demonstrate that if they had been born 10,000 years ago they wouldn't have survived childhood?
 
2012-12-12 04:44:42 PM

trappedspirit: Is this the thread where people demonstrate that if they had been born 10,000 years ago they wouldn't have survived childhood?


To be fair a significant percentage didn't anyways.
 
2012-12-12 04:45:45 PM

sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]


There are recipes for raccoons.

The book you need you may want to look at is "Cooking the sportsman's harvest"

/FYI I'm not a hunter but, I do understand why people do to help feed their families. People who hunt for sport are jackasses in my eyes. I won't kill anything if I can avoid it. For survival its a great skill to have.
 
2012-12-12 04:47:16 PM

HeadLever: Keizer_Ghidorah: HeadLever: Keizer_Ghidorah: Smegg
I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

Actually, this point is legitimate. Here in Idaho, wolves are one of the main causes of declines in big game populations to the point where hunting tags were drastically reduced and in some cases, completley eliminated from certain areas. This not only pisses off hunters, but this also reduces revenue to the state which typically spends this money on wildlife and conservation type programs.

Probably because of the limited space for wildlife to live in as well as humans hunting the elk as well. You can't blame the wolves for doing what they've been doing for a few million years.

Not sure if you are familiar with the Western US or not, but most of the land out here is public (no development). The county I grew up in is about the size of Connecticut, has a population of about 400 people and is 97% owned by the federal government. the space that wildlife has here is not really 'limited' in any sense of the word.

And no one is blaming the wolves for doing what they do. Thier population just need to be managed as with any other big game animal species.


Not really. Nature did an excellent job of it before humans ever appeared, and had been for a couple billion years. "Manage" means "keeping them where humans desire so we can exploit them as needed".
 
2012-12-12 04:49:15 PM

Evil Mackerel: sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]

There are recipes for raccoons.

The book you need you may want to look at is "Cooking the sportsman's harvest"

/FYI I'm not a hunter but, I do understand why people do to help feed their families. People who hunt for sport are jackasses in my eyes. I won't kill anything if I can avoid it. For survival its a great skill to have.


Given the sheer amount of parasites raccoons carry it hardly seems worth the risk. My dad told me they make decent pets, though.

/Named her Princess
//The pictures are hilarious
 
2012-12-12 04:49:58 PM

grasse: Well you did choose to live in a wolf populated area, it's not like they were put there after you moved.


That's exactly what it was like.
 
2012-12-12 04:53:43 PM

sp86: Evil Mackerel: sp86: browntimmy: HeadLever: browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

How about running over a squirrel with your car? Fun activity? Do you make a trophy out of it?

Squirrels go in stew. Raccoons are the ones that get made into trophies:

[i48.tinypic.com image 640x403]

There are recipes for raccoons.

The book you need you may want to look at is "Cooking the sportsman's harvest"

/FYI I'm not a hunter but, I do understand why people do to help feed their families. People who hunt for sport are jackasses in my eyes. I won't kill anything if I can avoid it. For survival its a great skill to have.

Given the sheer amount of parasites raccoons carry it hardly seems worth the risk. My dad told me they make decent pets, though.

/Named her Princess
//The pictures are hilarious


I eat most things in the forest with exception of raccoons and opossums. Opossums smell terrible, don;t even ant to know how they taste, and raccoons are RIDDLED with parasites. They make cool pets but usually get the call of the wild and disappear at some point. You don't want to be around them when they get that call.
 
2012-12-12 04:54:33 PM

Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.



I don't live in the big city. I live in the Rockies, about 3 miles from the gates Rocky Mountain National Park. I also spend a lot of time around the Tetons, and Yellowstone.

1.) FACT: Wolf impact on livestock is LESS than other sources. Other Ranch/Farm predators like Bears, Coyotes, Mountain Lions, Bob Cat, Fox, Opossum, and Raccoons will do lots of damage to Chickens, Goats, etc..
2.) FACT: The Wolf population keeps herd of Deer and Elk HEALTHY. Go to Yellowstone, and look at the Elk there. The Elk are strong, healthy, with impressive coats. You don't see stragglers. Then, come here.. to Estes Park right outside of Rocky Mountain National Park. The Elk herds are huge with the only real predators being Mountain Lions, Coyotes, and the yearly culling of the heard at night by Sharp Shooting Men in Black. The Elk look ragged. Lots of stragglers.. limpers.. large tumors.
3.) Coyotes, Mountain Lions, Bob Cats, and Fox and numerous Birds of Prey also attack pets, and in some cases people.
 
2012-12-12 04:55:52 PM

jshine: The point about food is valid, if you consider hunting to be only a matter of obtaining food. ...but otherwise its a serious question: these various animals are all about at the same level of intelligence. Pigs (food) are probably at least as smart as wolves, yet one is killed in huge numbers daily and the other gets a fark thread for a single individual being shot. Is "cuteness" really so compelling that it determines which animals are kill-able and which are sacrosanct?


I didn't read the rest of the thread so this may have been mentioned, but domestication plays a huge part in that. If an animal cant be domesticated (at least on a large scale), they are game/vermin (wolves). If they can be domesticated and trained to do something useful, they are pets/working animals (dogs). If they can be domesticated, but can't really be trained to do much else but taste good, they are food (cows). About the only animals I can think of that might be an exception to that last rule are pigs (they can be pretty smart, for a mobile food product), but their tastiness tends to outweigh their utility.
 
2012-12-12 05:00:06 PM

HeadLever: T.rex: Who the fark shoots a wolf?!? Why not go twist a bald eagle's head off while you're at it?

Mosly, those that have livestock killed by wolves, or those that don't want to see elk populations diminish further than they already have. Basically, you need to manage wolf populations just the same as you manage other big game populations.


Elk populations are not at all diminished. I know... I live in the middle of Elk Central in Estes Park.
Elk are very very far from being diminished. Like the Deer.. there are plenty to go around.
Don't believe me? Google it.
 
2012-12-12 05:03:17 PM

HeadLever: Jamik137: but wolves not so much considering there are only ~1700 left.

Uh, no. There are about 60,000 to 70,000 wolves in North America right now. Wolves as a species are listed as 'Least Concern' by IUCN.


There are 1700 left in Colorado. Just heard in on NPR.
 
2012-12-12 05:09:08 PM

japlemon: meat0918: On one hand, this sucks.

On the other hand, you get less legitimacy for poachers (screwed up, I know) if there is a legal avenue for them to hunt.

//Wanted to smack a hunter that said there is an unwritten law in Oregon that if you see a wolf, you shoot it and never saw a word. What an asshole.

You wouldn't say that if wolves were on your property killing your animals.


Ya know.. it's not like the Big Bad Wolves are surrounding these ranches and taking out entire herds of livestock 24/7. Yes, it happens.. but don't come off like every waking moment on the ranch is spent fending off packs of wolves. They aren't perpetually "killing your animals". A raccoon will take out some chickens. A coyote will take out your goats. A fox will take out your baby goat. A mountain lion can take your horse... it happens.. but not as much as you imagine.
 
2012-12-12 05:10:53 PM

santadog: HeadLever: Jamik137: but wolves not so much considering there are only ~1700 left.

Uh, no. There are about 60,000 to 70,000 wolves in North America right now. Wolves as a species are listed as 'Least Concern' by IUCN.

There are 1700 left in Colorado. Just heard in on NPR.


Here in Arapaho National Forest a few weeks ago, we found several dead wolves, as best we can tell, they picked the wrong fight with a moose in a bad mood. Sometimes the nature channel is right and pack hunting takes down bigger animals... other times, when small-ish animals pick a fight with a 3ton wrecking machine, the results are extraordinarly one-sided in the other direction.

/csb
//gross
///Wolverines!
 
2012-12-12 05:11:53 PM

firefly212: There's no nice way to get any kind of meat, at least hunters are honest about it.


THIS:

anyone biatching about hunting being cruel is a hypocrite unless they are vegan.

hunting an animal which has grown to adulthood in the wild is vastly less cruel than eating animals that have been raised in cages for generations.


/not vegan
/not a hunter
/got no beef with beef
 
2012-12-12 05:12:34 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Not really. Nature did an excellent job of it before humans ever appeared, and had been for a couple billion years. "Manage" means "keeping them where humans desire so we can exploit them as needed".


Nature no longer exists in a vacuum here in the lower 48. Every state has management agencies that manage differing populations with respect to stated goals. in places where there is little development this is easy as it is more of a predator/prey/hunter population balance equation. In areas where you have greater development, wildlife conflict also becomes a major player as well as teh fact that hunting cannot be utilized in the same form for population control.

It is not really exploitation. It is managing populations for the greater good of the entire (including humans) system.
 
2012-12-12 05:16:24 PM

santadog: Ya know.. it's not like the Big Bad Wolves are surrounding these ranches and taking out entire herds of livestock 24/7. Yes, it happens.. but don't come off like every waking moment on the ranch is spent fending off packs of wolves. They aren't perpetually "killing your animals". A raccoon will take out some chickens. A coyote will take out your goats. A fox will take out your baby goat. A mountain lion can take your horse... it happens.. but not as much as you imagine


While you are mostly correct, there was a pack of wolves in Montana that took out over 100 buck rams in one night. Livestock predations by wolves do happen relatively frequently, but yeah, they are not ever night.
 
2012-12-12 05:18:55 PM
can't one be pro-elk, anti-wolf hunting just for the helluvit?

\likes elk meat
\\likes funny wolf shirts
 
2012-12-12 05:29:33 PM

HeadLever: Keizer_Ghidorah: Not really. Nature did an excellent job of it before humans ever appeared, and had been for a couple billion years. "Manage" means "keeping them where humans desire so we can exploit them as needed".

Nature no longer exists in a vacuum here in the lower 48. Every state has management agencies that manage differing populations with respect to stated goals. in places where there is little development this is easy as it is more of a predator/prey/hunter population balance equation. In areas where you have greater development, wildlife conflict also becomes a major player as well as teh fact that hunting cannot be utilized in the same form for population control.

It is not really exploitation. It is managing populations for the greater good of the entire (including humans) system.


That works until the managers are told to stop. Our DOW (Dept. of Wildlife) Guy that comes to Estes Park is stationed in Longmont.. about a 45min drive. We had bears like crazy this summer. I live on the property of the Elkhorn Lodge. For WEEKS we had numerous bears on the property at any given time or day. We were told by him, that Bear Relocations are no longer an option because of budget cuts. Now, the guy who's suppose to be the Liaison between the bears and the humans.. keep the peace, as it were, has been instructed to kill ANY and ALL nuisance bears.
And here's what you get: Dead Bears
There was a 2nd Bear on the Elkhorn Property. It's not been reported. It was DOW that took him down.. but the "Town" would be more up in arms if they found out there was another death.

No bear proof dumpsters for the Town..they don't want to spend the money, so there bears will keep coming and dying.

That's the management plan.
 
2012-12-12 05:31:58 PM
I think we should kill them all. They ravage livestock, are a danger to pets and smaller people, and devastate population of slower maturing animals like elk. We almost completely wiped them out, deliberately, and a hundred years later some moon headed pollyannas decided that we need them back. Ridiculous.
 
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