HeadLever: Gunny Highway: please: I was about to defend the way I hunt, which is traditional, but you know what, fark that - if you don't hunt, have no idea what it is about and why it is important, and spout the ignorant nonsense like I see in these types of threads there is no convincing you, and I shouldn't have to and don't need to anyway.

Why would you shoot a wolf? I am not here to argue I am actually curious.

For me it would be for the challenge of the hunt and general population control. Where I live elk populations have plummeted and the main cause is wolf depredation. It also helps out the local ranchers and a good pelt can bring you several hundred bucks.

Is there a registration process for something like this? Is there ever a 'wolf season'? Are the environmental activists too strong in this case?

grasse: So they chose extincting a species over building better fences...

#1 - obviously, wolves were never extinct
#2 - when you run livestock on public land, fences are a moot point
#3 - Ranch pastures are often set up for big game to winter in. You fence it off for wolves, you would fence it off for deer and elk as well.

Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument.

What confuses me are my fellow hunters (in PA) who believe you should never, ever shoot doe because "they make the bucks" (not to mention the Game Commision's introduction of the "3 points on a side" rule for bucks) yet they still tell the public they hunt for "population control." Bullshiat, you're in it for the trophy.

/can't eat the antlers

Gunny Highway: We will have to wait for more facts to come out to see if the killing of the wolf was for a legitimate reason.

More than likely, not. There are some hunters that specifically hunt collared wolves out of sheer spite.

Glitchwerks: please: You forgot "when it is needed".

We've completely altered the environment these animals live in: we've eliminated predators, shrunk their habitats and put roads through what is left, and provided millions of acres of agriculture on which their populations can explode unchecked. Hunting is necessary and you're lucky there are still people left who are willing to do it (though that number shrinks rapidly every year).

And those predators were wolves.

Only the most ignorant Farker would suggest we outlaw hunting, but like police officers, people stereotype hunters. The image of people hunting for sustenance is replaced by the typical image of people ruthlessly killing everything in sight, a lot like that South Park episode.

I'm responding to posters above who were specifically discussing the fact that there is no merit whatsoever to any kind of hunting at all. Restoring predators is one of many steps to having a functional, healthy prey herd, but sometimes those predators need o be managed as well.

good, now serving #358

//lude

Glitchwerks: Gunny Highway: We will have to wait for more facts to come out to see if the killing of the wolf was for a legitimate reason.

More than likely, not. There are some hunters that specifically hunt collared wolves out of sheer spite.

Source?

amindtat: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument.

What confuses me are my fellow hunters (in PA) who believe you should never, ever shoot doe because "they make the bucks" (not to mention the Game Commision's introduction of the "3 points on a side" rule for bucks) yet they still tell the public they hunt for "population control." Bullshiat, you're in it for the trophy.

/can't eat the antlers

Doe regulation is really the best way of controlling herd numbers. Antler restrictions are just for bigger antlers.

jshine: So, we can kill these by the millions:
[www.saawinternational.org image 425x319]

...yet wolves are different somehow? Why? Whats the difference -- aside from how much wolves look like domestic pets.

That's a dairy cow. I think they keep those around for a few years.

Gunny Highway: I, and others, are confused about is the killing of this wolf in this particular instance.

Some of the largest elk populaiton declines in the past decade or so have happened in the herds that are around Yellowstone.

Link

mochunk: The article headline says "in Yellowstone". Which is false. As per the NPR story yesterday, the pack had wandered out of Yellowstone and into a legal hunting area.

At least the article could get that fact straight.

/hunting is stupid

They actually did in the story:

On Monday, Montana wildlife commissioners temporarily shut down the gray wolf hunting season in some areas outside Yellowstone, saying the move was a reaction to the killing of 832F and other tagged wolves that wandered out of the national park.

please: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument. Prey number falls as predator population increases. Insufficient prey leas to predator decrease due to famine and disease. decrease in predators leads to increase of prey. Increase of prey means increase of predators.

Yes, having an over abundance of starving, diseased predators is way better than allowing hunting. O_o

Also, when that predator population is crashing and starving, do they think they go quietly into the night? They eat whatever they can when their prey is gone. Usually pets. I'm watching this happen with the northern Michigan coyote population right now, which is in its bust cycle. "Hide yo dogs, hide yo cats, coyotes stealing all the pets up in here!"

I never said it was pretty but it sorts itself out without human intervention.

sp86: please: sp86: please:
I was about to defend the way I hunt, which is traditional, but you know what, fark that - if you don't hunt, have no idea what it is about and why it is important, and spout the ignorant nonsense like I see in these types of threads there is no convincing you, and I shouldn't have to and don't need to anyway.

Atlatl?

I'm looking into that actually.

I couldn't get into that. I need the meat, I don't need an animal to suffer; it's the same reason I don't use a bow or take shiatty shots with my .30-06.

I never said I would try it without being proficient.

HeadLever: Gunny Highway: I, and others, are confused about is the killing of this wolf in this particular instance.

Some of the largest elk populaiton declines in the past decade or so have happened in the herds that are around Yellowstone.

Link

Did you read that article?

Glitchwerks: More than likely, not. There are some hunters that specifically hunt collared wolves out of sheer spite.

I think I'm safe in assuming you just made that up.

Maggie_Luna: please: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument. Prey number falls as predator population increases. Insufficient prey leas to predator decrease due to famine and disease. decrease in predators leads to increase of prey. Increase of prey means increase of predators.

Yes, having an over abundance of starving, diseased predators is way better than allowing hunting. O_o

Also, when that predator population is crashing and starving, do they think they go quietly into the night? They eat whatever they can when their prey is gone. Usually pets. I'm watching this happen with the northern Michigan coyote population right now, which is in its bust cycle. "Hide yo dogs, hide yo cats, coyotes stealing all the pets up in here!"

I never said it was pretty but it sorts itself out without human intervention.

That would be great if their on Isle Royal, but most aren't - they live in a habit we've altered. If we want to hunt them (we do) then we have to be their stewards.

Also, think how well your cunning plan would go over if people are already anthropomorphizing them with names like Rock Star.

Maggie_Luna: please: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument. Prey number falls as predator population increases. Insufficient prey leas to predator decrease due to famine and disease. decrease in predators leads to increase of prey. Increase of prey means increase of predators.

Yes, having an over abundance of starving, diseased predators is way better than allowing hunting. O_o

Also, when that predator population is crashing and starving, do they think they go quietly into the night? They eat whatever they can when their prey is gone. Usually pets. I'm watching this happen with the northern Michigan coyote population right now, which is in its bust cycle. "Hide yo dogs, hide yo cats, coyotes stealing all the pets up in here!"

I never said it was pretty but it sorts itself out without human intervention.

Given the potential for wolves to become Commensalistic to compensate for overpopulation "letting nature sort itself out" is not an acceptable long term solution.

please: sp86: please: sp86: please:
I was about to defend the way I hunt, which is traditional, but you know what, fark that - if you don't hunt, have no idea what it is about and why it is important, and spout the ignorant nonsense like I see in these types of threads there is no convincing you, and I shouldn't have to and don't need to anyway.

Atlatl?

I'm looking into that actually.

I couldn't get into that. I need the meat, I don't need an animal to suffer; it's the same reason I don't use a bow or take shiatty shots with my .30-06.

I never said I would try it without being proficient.

My old man is one of the best shots with a bow I've ever seen, and I still end up tracking deer for him. No matter your proficiency there's a margin for error associated with less efficient harvest methods that I find unacceptable.

please: Source?

I read it in one of the articles about this incident in the past day or so. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the article, but I'll keep looking.

sp86: Maggie_Luna: please: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument. Prey number falls as predator population increases. Insufficient prey leas to predator decrease due to famine and disease. decrease in predators leads to increase of prey. Increase of prey means increase of predators.

Yes, having an over abundance of starving, diseased predators is way better than allowing hunting. O_o

Also, when that predator population is crashing and starving, do they think they go quietly into the night? They eat whatever they can when their prey is gone. Usually pets. I'm watching this happen with the northern Michigan coyote population right now, which is in its bust cycle. "Hide yo dogs, hide yo cats, coyotes stealing all the pets up in here!"

I never said it was pretty but it sorts itself out without human intervention.

Given the potential for wolves to become Commensalistic to compensate for overpopulation "letting nature sort itself out" is not an acceptable long term solution.

Bingo.

And why would anyone who claims to respect and care for these animals let it come to that anyway? When it comes to starvation and disease an arrow or a bullet is a god-send.

amindtat: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument.

What confuses me are my fellow hunters (in PA) who believe you should never, ever shoot doe because "they make the bucks" (not to mention the Game Commision's introduction of the "3 points on a side" rule for bucks) yet they still tell the public they hunt for "population control." Bullshiat, you're in it for the trophy.

/can't eat the antlers

.....you can't possibly be as stupid as this post makes you seem.

3 points per side gives the hunter some idea of the maturity and health of the animal. Admittedly not a very good one but it's not like you can check it's teeth before shooting it is it?

Not shooting does avoids killing an animal that may be carrying or caring for an adolescent deer that will one day grow into an adult which can be harvested for food.

Glitchwerks: please: Source?

I read it in one of the articles about this incident in the past day or so. Unfortunately I can't seem to find the article, but I'll keep looking.

I'm just giving you a hard time. I know some jerks have a hardon for wolves. But it isn't accurate or even cool to paint all hunters with a broad brush.

Egoy3k: amindtat: Maggie_Luna: I never understand the whole "we need to hunt them to control their population' argument.

What confuses me are my fellow hunters (in PA) who believe you should never, ever shoot doe because "they make the bucks" (not to mention the Game Commision's introduction of the "3 points on a side" rule for bucks) yet they still tell the public they hunt for "population control." Bullshiat, you're in it for the trophy.

/can't eat the antlers

.....you can't possibly be as stupid as this post makes you seem.

3 points per side gives the hunter some idea of the maturity and health of the animal. Admittedly not a very good one but it's not like you can check it's teeth before shooting it is it?

Not shooting does avoids killing an animal that may be carrying or caring for an adolescent deer that will one day grow into an adult which can be harvested for food.

Good points.

I took a button buck this year that i thought was a doe. It happens. I made up for it two weeks later with a ten point though. :)

jshine: So, we can kill these by the millions:
[www.saawinternational.org image 425x319]

...yet wolves are different somehow? Why? Whats the difference -- aside from how much wolves look like domestic pets.

A cow is a domesticated food animal, a wolf is a wild predator.

Gunny Highway:
Is there a registration process for something like this? Is there ever a 'wolf season'? Are the environmental activists too strong in this case?

It has been a complicated and convoluted process to get where we are now. Much too complicated to get into much detail here. However, to answer your questions, anyone can hunt wolves in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming as these are general tags (purchased over the counter), however many areas within the states have quotas on the number of wolves that can be killed. It is the hunters responsibility to know if the quota has been filled. Here is Idaho's information page

The environmentallist went so far overboard that they kept winning all the battles, but lost the war. Originally, the plan was to delist wolves when there were 300 between the 3 states and turn them over to state management. Well that plan was quickly shot down by lawsuits. Even when the population exceeded 1500 wolves, they kept filing lawsuits until Tester (D-MT) and Simpson (R-ID) added a rider to a budget bill that delisted the wolves and barred any and all judicial review.

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: firefly212:

Hunting isn't stupid... if we didn't have deer hunters to thin the pack, the deer would get all kinds of sick... I was in MD when they banned it for a little while... I've never seen anything as sad as the consequences of that experiment... wasting diseases and starvation... it's pretty messed up what happens to their populations. As for elk hunting (which I did this year)... for the price of one elk tag, I can get enough meat to put in the deep freezer for several months, and the guy down in Fraser who dresses/carves them up gives 10-20 lbs of meat to a program that donates the (frozen) meat to poor families here in the mountains that need food. You say hunting is stupid, I say growing cows in torture-like conditions for years on end just so you can slaughter them en masse without needing to try as hard as hunters is stupid. Easy meat and easy bread make easy fat and easy dead.

Always wanted to go elk hunting, but the hunters I know pay crazy money for tags and lodging, and I'd prefer to go with experienced elk hunters my first time out.

It is fun... here in CO, tags aren't too expensive (about 50 bucks), and I like camping, so the lodging gets carried on my back. All that said, there's still the possibility that you'll spend money on the tag and not end up getting an elk. Before you go hunt though, get good with your gun... if you don't kill it quickly with one well-placed shot, you're just being a dick. Also, do go with experienced hunters... aside from it being more fun as a group, they'll impart random information about how to better track animals.

Found it:

http://news.yahoo.com/yellowstone-wolf-shootings-draw-scrutiny-mont-1 4 2702644.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CZW7chQiFUAvLDQtDMD

Marc Cooke with the group Wolves of the Rockies alleged hunters were targeting collared animals, either for bragging rights or out of spite for wolf restoration in the Northern Rockies.

HeadLever: Gunny Highway:
Is there a registration process for something like this? Is there ever a 'wolf season'? Are the environmental activists too strong in this case?

It has been a complicated and convoluted process to get where we are now. Much too complicated to get into much detail here. However, to answer your questions, anyone can hunt wolves in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming as these are general tags (purchased over the counter), however many areas within the states have quotas on the number of wolves that can be killed. It is the hunters responsibility to know if the quota has been filled. Here is Idaho's information page

The environmentallist went so far overboard that they kept winning all the battles, but lost the war. Originally, the plan was to delist wolves when there were 300 between the 3 states and turn them over to state management. Well that plan was quickly shot down by lawsuits. Even when the population exceeded 1500 wolves, they kept filing lawsuits until Tester (D-MT) and Simpson (R-ID) added a rider to a budget bill that delisted the wolves and barred any and all judicial review.

Interesting. Thanks.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I still don't understand hunting, even when hunters aren't shooting popular animals. A bunch of fat, illiterate drunks stumble out into the woods at dawn, sit around in a wooden chair in the cold until mid-afternoon (or they get too drunk and fall out) and take potshots at wandering, defenseless wildlife in the meantime.

This is somehow "hunting".

When you manage to kill something by tracking it and fighting it to the death with your bare hands, I'll stop calling you fat, illiterate drunks and start calling you hunters. Not a moment sooner.


That's my take too. You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon. i don't get a thrill when I step on spiders.

please: I'm just giving you a hard time. I know some jerks have a hardon for wolves. But it isn't accurate or even cool to paint all hunters with a broad brush.

I'm not trying to do that. I have no problem with hunting. I believe it's a few bad apples that are spoiling the bunch. Someone related a story on Fark about someone they knew stumbling across a wolf den and killing every last one of them. Those are the types of people who are scum.

Glitchwerks: http://news.yahoo.com/yellowstone-wolf-shootings-draw-scrutiny-mont-1 4 2702644.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CZW7chQiFUAvLDQtDMD

Here's that link so it works:
http://news.yahoo.com/yellowstone-wolf-shootings-draw-scrutiny-mont-1 4 2702644.html

It's quoting a wolf advocacy group spokesman who is speculating. :/

Also, the article notes that in those three states, over 250 wolves have been taken. 8 had collars. :|

Gunny Highway: HeadLever: Gunny Highway: I, and others, are confused about is the killing of this wolf in this particular instance.

Some of the largest elk populaiton declines in the past decade or so have happened in the herds that are around Yellowstone.

Link

Did you read that article?

Yep. I am well aware that wolves are not the only cause. They are one of the main causes, though.

As for the continuing decline of the herds, they want to look at the cow:calf ratios. That has been a problem here in Idaho. A skewed older animal ratio will cause populations of elk to diminish even after other pressures decrease.

<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7482624/81243001#c81243001" target="_blank">Glitchwerks</a>:</b> <i>please: I'm just giving you a hard time. I know some jerks have a hardon for wolves. But it isn't accurate or even cool to paint all hunters with a broad brush.

I'm not trying to do that. I have no problem with hunting. I believe it's a few bad apples that are spoiling the bunch. <b>Someone related a story on Fark</b> about someone they knew stumbling across a wolf den and killing every last one of them. Those are the types of people who are scum.</i>

<facepalm image>
then
<you're not helping image>

firefly212:
It is fun... here in CO, tags aren't too expensive (about 50 bucks), and I like camping, so the lodging gets carried on my back. All that said, there's still the possibility that you'll spend money on the tag and not end up getting an elk. Before you go hunt though, get good with your gun... if you don't kill it quickly with one well-placed shot, you're just being a dick. Also, do go with experienced hunters... aside from it being more fun as a group, they'll impart random information about how to better track animals.

Hmm, they head to Utah but I have some friends in CO, so I'll have to investigate that avenue. $50 is a pittance, and while I'd like to actually get an elk, a lot of the fun is just being out there and away from technology and the daily grind. lol Definitely plan on getting more proficient and grouping with experienced hunters is a must, it made a huge difference for my first few dove hunts compared to other stories I've heard.

/CSB

Litig8r: grasse: Well you did choose to live in a wolf populated area, it's not like they were put there after you moved.

I feel the same about women who go to bars and then complain about being raped.

Bad analogy or worse analogy ever?

amindtat: Bullshiat, you're in it for the trophy.

/can't eat the antlers

I already responded to this but I just thought of another point

You must not know many hunters. I don't hunt myself since I never had anyone to teach me as a kid, don't particularly like the taste of deer, moose licenses are rare (picked in a 'lottery' around here) and I don't have the equipment to handle a moose carcass in any event but I know a lot of hunters. Hey I gotta get my moose meat somehow. Anyway none of the hunters I know has any antlers or heads on display even at their hunting camps. This is mostly because taxidermy is expensive (in the case of heads)and they shoot the first buck they see in the interest of ensuring their food supply, and getting out of the usually miserable Nova Scotian weather as soon as possible.

Yum.....Popular wolf Jerky.

Time to start opening up the hunts all over the west. Too damn many wolves already left Jellystone.

Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

You've got be farking kidding me. There are, what, a little more than 1,000 wolves in the vicinity of Yellowstone? Compared to how many millions of cattle? Surely some way can be found to compensate ranchers for their losses without completely destroying the natural ecosystem. I think we can afford to pay a fractional penny more per ton of beef if that's what it takes to keep the wilderness wild.

As for "decimating" deer, elk, and other wildlife. Well, yeah. That's what wolves are supposed to do.

*worst

/shiat

I understand the legitimate reasons for allowing hunting, but having met some avid hunters, I don't think most of them truly give a shiat about them.
I think they use it as a good excuse to justify their love of shooting and killing things.
After all, what good is having all those awesome guns if you can't kill something with them?

Gawdzila: I understand the legitimate reasons for allowing hunting, but having met some avid hunters, I don't think most of them truly give a shiat about them.
I think they use it as a good excuse to justify their love of shooting and killing things.
After all, what good is having all those awesome guns if you can't kill something with them?

Who are these avid hunters you've met? Friends, family, people in a Fark thread? Nobody I know has a love of shooting and killing things, they like to eat venison.

please: <you're not helping image>

What part of that do you have a problem with? I said I believe it's a few people who are causing a problem, and relayed an example that was posted on Fark.

Those types of things happen, and that's how people get a bad image of hunters.

If I said all hunters did things like that, maybe you'd have a point, but I'm clearly not doing that.

please: It's quoting a wolf advocacy group spokesman who is speculating. :/

Also, the article notes that in those three states, over 250 wolves have been taken. 8 had collars. :|

Forgive me for not verifying everything I read, Jesus Christ. You are giving me a hard time for no reason.

browntimmy: You get zero manliness points for hunting when the only danger is you being an idiot with your weapon.

Being sucessfull is all we need for us to be happy with the results. Arbitrary points given by anonomyous posters on a social website is not why folks hunt. You can take your manliness points and keep them in your mom's basement for all we care.

Gawdzila: I understand the legitimate reasons for allowing hunting, but having met some avid hunters, I don't think most of them truly give a shiat about them.
I think they use it as a good excuse to justify their love of shooting and killing things.
After all, what good is having all those awesome guns if you can't kill something with them?

I go on a dove hunt every year. My family enjoys the bacon-wrapped, green chili/jalapeno dove meat, as do a number of my friends. I don't even use my awesome guns to kill them with, just a simple Beretta shotgun.

/CSB

Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

heidinoele: Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

Whatever. They do not decimate anything. There are only a few of them.

This argument makes me so angry. The people who move to the mountains and then are SHOCKED that there are mountain lions and bears piss me off beyond reason. You're an idiot If you move to the freaking mountains and then are surprised that a mountain lion eats your poodle or a bear gets into your hot tub. If you put a bunch of prey in a place where there are wolves, you shouldn't be surprised when a few get taken. I live where there are coyotes. None of my animals have been eaten by them because I take precautions and I'm not a farking idiot.

Heh, I live in Illinois and a hidden camera got pictures of a cougar on one of our pick trails last year. Here kitty, kitty, kitty.

 

/Pic of the hunter?
//IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!

Keizer_Ghidorah: Smeggy Smurf: powtard: I still don't understand this hatred for wolves. Seriously, can someone please explain this to me?

You must live in the big city. Wolves decimate livestock populations as well as deer, elk and other wildlife. They also kill pets and will attack people if you are acting like prey. Most people are prey.

I can't even think of a response to something this stupid.

And I just noticed this part, and the stupid now burns.