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(Washington Times)   "The legislation (in MI) exempts firefighters and police officers but not schoolteachers. This is because firefighters and police officers are vital to society. Teachers are not"   (communities.washingtontimes.com) divider line 237
    More: Dumbass, President Obama, police officers, Michigan, Governor of Michigan, firefighters, society, legislation, Americans for Prosperity  
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3511 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Dec 2012 at 7:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-13 05:26:14 AM

Lsherm: Some parents are using the public school system as the world's most expensive babysitter.


No, no... that would be prison.
 
2012-12-13 05:48:38 AM
I try not to dive into internet fights anymore, but jesus christ, I couldn't let this one go. As the child of a teacher that has watched her mother get screwed over by the state time and time again while still doing her damndest to be the best teacher she possibly can - taking more classes, buying supplies for her classroom out of her own damn eternally dwindling paycheck - I can't even begin to describe how much this article enraged me. And the writer is supposedly the child of teachers himself. I hope they're dead rather than reading the shiat their son just wrote bashing the hell out of them.

To the writer, from the very bottom of my heart, I say, "Go fark yourself sideways with a sharp stick, you ignorant, disgusting sack of shiat."
 
2012-12-13 06:53:30 AM

beta_plus: Mentat: BarkingUnicorn: Not because cops and firefighters have guns and axes but teachers do not?

It's the same divide and conquer strategy Walker tried in Wisconsin. Set the unions against each other, take out the public sector unions, take out the industrial unions, and then take out the police and firefighter unions last when there's no one left to support them.

As usual, libtards try to hide their bitter tears of impotent rage by being intentionally obtuse on why having an actual skill set and doing something inherently dangerous allows one to have a sustainable and useful union.

images.sodahead.com

/oh, and conveniently ignoring the 1919 Boston Police Strike


While you conveniently ignore the 1896 Philadelphia barn fire. Apparently none of you republi-tards are capable of learning from history!

\wow, that was easy
 
2012-12-13 07:16:36 AM
The purpose of the legislation is to save schoolteachers and the rest of the left from themselves. Right-to-work legislation in neighboring states like Indiana has strengthened their economies at Michigan's expense. Foreign investors have zero interest doing business in anti-business slums. Governor Snyder wants to save Michigan from collapse.

Race to the Bottom, where you belong, peons! If God intended for you to make something of yourself other than indentured servitude to your betters you would have been born rich. Now shut up and stop complaining when we destroy everything that made your family, and this country, great.
 
2012-12-13 07:57:01 AM

Lsherm: Guntram Shatterhand: And considering the Republican base holds nothing dear (as shown by throwing their Christianity away to vote for a Mormon),

[img827.imageshack.us image 455x325]

+1 for an insanely bigoted statement that will probably be ignored.


Maybe was a troll, but can be considered seriously. Baptists and Evangelicals in the South consider Mormons to be heretics. But they voted for him anyway because he wasn't the incumbent (re: black man).
 
2012-12-13 08:10:22 AM
so as long as your profession is deemed important enough right to work law don't apply?

it makes no sense. They're obviously just exempting cops and firefighters to avoid having to fight with them publicly. If this were the right thing to do why wouldn't it be right for cops and firemen?



if attracting businesses is the goal weakening unions wont be enough, we're competing directly with china where wages are something like 31 cents an hour and safety/environmental concerns aren't.

lets really get those jobs for Michigan and become a third world sweatshop state. Go Michigan!
 
2012-12-13 08:13:01 AM

chuggernaught: Maybe was a troll, but can be considered seriously. Baptists and Evangelicals in the South consider Mormons to be heretics. But they voted for him anyway because he wasn't the incumbent (re: black man).


Anyone who says that Mormons are Christians doesn't understand the underlying theology of either religion. The fact that Mormonism isn't monotheistic and claims that there are innumerable gods scattered throughout the universe and that humans can ascend to godhood should make that abundantly clear.

Regarding TFA and Michigan, maybe too many people have forgotten the good that unions do and need to spend a little while being ground under the heel of corporate management.
 
2012-12-13 08:27:58 AM

themindiswatching: The GOP plan for government:

1. Cut money to a service.
2. Service becomes so crappy that it's better to go private.
3. GOP now has an excuse to kill it entirely.
4. Repeat.

/how long until we kill public schools entirely?


See Delaware.
 
2012-12-13 08:30:46 AM

Snarfangel: timujin: 1. If an article's headline asks a question that can be answered "no", don't bother writing the article.

Headlines that can be answered by "no" -- a good idea?


A Comment Followed by a Colon and a Question: The New Journalistic Standard?
 
2012-12-13 08:46:34 AM
FTFA: Firefighters rush into burning buildings. Police officers venture into dangerous areas most of us never know. These people risk death every day. If they strike, society risks breaking down.

Without teachers, society is certain to break down. Enjoy old age in a third-world US, you stupid republicans. 

Again:
i560.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-13 08:49:43 AM

Lsherm: Guntram Shatterhand: And considering the Republican base holds nothing dear (as shown by throwing their Christianity away to vote for a Mormon),

[img827.imageshack.us image 455x325]

+1 for an insanely bigoted statement that will probably be ignored.


Is it bigoted? As far as I can tell, Mormonism has the same relationship to Christianity as Islam. Both religions were entirely made up by charlatans using Christianity as a scaffold.

/neither christian, muslim, nor mormon
 
2012-12-13 08:55:31 AM
Tried to find the phrase "army of the rich" in this thread, left disappointed.
 
2012-12-13 09:14:21 AM

beta_plus: Obvious tag on strike?

American public school teachers suck. We pay more per student on k-12 public schools and our reward is the world's most stupid children. By any measure American public school teachers suck ass. When they aren't doing their job, they're sexually abusing the children of hispanics because they know that their parents fear having the INS called. Then after sexually abusing their children, they blame the parents!

/"We teachers need more money to do a job that when we fail miserably at it will then claim we can't do it because the parents suck - while we make their kids suck us off!"


This is what beta plus actually believes.

He believed in it so much that he posted it on a public forum.

Let that sink in, nice and deep.
 
2012-12-13 09:15:58 AM

Muk_Man: beta_plus: Obvious tag on strike?

American public school teachers suck. We pay more per student on k-12 public schools and our reward is the world's most stupid children. By any measure American public school teachers suck ass. When they aren't doing their job, they're sexually abusing the children of hispanics because they know that their parents fear having the INS called. Then after sexually abusing their children, they blame the parents!

/"We teachers need more money to do a job that when we fail miserably at it will then claim we can't do it because the parents suck - while we make their kids suck us off!"

I know you're a troll. But honestly, you're saying your teachers are bad, so let's kill their unions so they can't get good pay and therefore attract intelligent people to the position(some people are altruistic, but a solid pay will draw other people). Yes there are other problems with the US system, but unions aren't necessarily the problem. We have them in Canada and our schools perform quite well... I'd love to hear some educational reform policy you think would help.


American leftists are assholes who don't blink an eye at defending child rapists (see LA County & Penn State). If the violence of the protest didn't show you that directly, I'm not sure what will. Canadian leftists are not assholes and can therefore be trusted. It's as simple as that. If you have a way of "legislating away the assholeness of the American Left", I'm all ears.
 
2012-12-13 09:19:22 AM

Uncle Tractor: FTFA: Firefighters rush into burning buildings. Police officers venture into dangerous areas most of us never know. These people risk death every day. If they strike, society risks breaking down.

Without teachers, society is certain to break down. Enjoy old age in a third-world US, you stupid republicans. 

Again:
[i560.photobucket.com image 640x256]


American Public School teachers make children more stupid than if they didn't have any teachers at all. Getting rid of them would instantly make America smarter.
 
2012-12-13 09:21:29 AM

dr_blasto: The Voice of Doom: Firefighters rush into burning buildings. Police officers venture into dangerous areas most of us never know.

Teachers can reduce the number of times firefighters and police officers have to do those things - besides reducing the things "most of us never know".


The real difference (besides "teachurs be libruls!") is the immediate, obvious feedback:
With cuts to firefighters and police, people might get hurt NOW. There'll be media attention and you'll get the blame.

But when society and economy go slowly down the shiatter, it's less obvious and people won't make a direct connection (especially if they had bad teachers) with education.
And should the shiat finally hit the fan, it'll be somebody else's problem because by then you'll have been out of office for some time. 


/related theory: "Fark you, I got mine!" means you have stuff you might be afraid to losing. And the people protecting your stuff are..?

The real reason is that police and firefighter unions tend to contribute more to Republicans.


And they tend to ne male-dominated. Can't have those uppity women in the teachers unions speaking up or anything, can we?
 
2012-12-13 09:23:49 AM

swankywanky: beta_plus: Obvious tag on strike?

American public school teachers suck. We pay more per student on k-12 public schools and our reward is the world's most stupid children. By any measure American public school teachers suck ass. When they aren't doing their job, they're sexually abusing the children of hispanics because they know that their parents fear having the INS called. Then after sexually abusing their children, they blame the parents!

/"We teachers need more money to do a job that when we fail miserably at it will then claim we can't do it because the parents suck - while we make their kids suck us off!"

Wow, that troll was trolled so hard I think you may have damaged the bridge.

/troll


You lost. Get Over it, child rapist apologist.
 
2012-12-13 09:41:58 AM
I just want to say this as a concerned Canadian who frequents the politics tab.

What the fark is going on down there? Did half your country wake up retarded sometime around 2010?
 
2012-12-13 09:50:54 AM
Everyone I like deserves to be well compensated in their professions.

Everyone I dislike should work for free.

Did I get that right?
 
2012-12-13 09:51:48 AM

BeesNuts: Everyone I like deserves to be well compensated in their professions.

Everyone I dislike should work for free.

Did I get that right?


I think you covered it, yeah.
 
2012-12-13 09:53:04 AM

beta_plus: Muk_Man: beta_plus: Obvious tag on strike?

American public school teachers suck. We pay more per student on k-12 public schools and our reward is the world's most stupid children. By any measure American public school teachers suck ass. When they aren't doing their job, they're sexually abusing the children of hispanics because they know that their parents fear having the INS called. Then after sexually abusing their children, they blame the parents!

/"We teachers need more money to do a job that when we fail miserably at it will then claim we can't do it because the parents suck - while we make their kids suck us off!"

I know you're a troll. But honestly, you're saying your teachers are bad, so let's kill their unions so they can't get good pay and therefore attract intelligent people to the position(some people are altruistic, but a solid pay will draw other people). Yes there are other problems with the US system, but unions aren't necessarily the problem. We have them in Canada and our schools perform quite well... I'd love to hear some educational reform policy you think would help.

American leftists are assholes who don't blink an eye at defending child rapists (see LA County & Penn State). If the violence of the protest didn't show you that directly, I'm not sure what will. Canadian leftists are not assholes and can therefore be trusted. It's as simple as that. If you have a way of "legislating away the assholeness of the American Left", I'm all ears.


Still struggling to work your head around a center right nation electing a socialist kenyan to the whitehouse *twice*, huh?

You'll get over it.
 
2012-12-13 09:58:52 AM

BeesNuts: You'll get over it.


He won't actually.

Hes either a racist bigot, grasping at straws with no desire to change.

or

He's a paid shill.
 
2012-12-13 10:01:21 AM

Durga: I just want to say this as a concerned Canadian who frequents the politics tab.

What the fark is going on down there? Did half your country wake up retarded sometime around 2010?


Amazingly, some prick Aussie actually had a lot to do with the country's shift to the hard right. Add that to a lot of Southerners pissed off about a black president, and you see how things got so insane here.
 
2012-12-13 10:19:54 AM

Raharu: BeesNuts: You'll get over it.

He won't actually.

Hes either a racist bigot, grasping at straws with no desire to change.

or

He's a paid shill.


Meh. He'll tone it down or he'll be summarily ignored, then he'll retire that jersey and trot out the next one.

Meanwhile, it's entirely possible that he gives himself an aneurism trying to work himself into a forthy enough frenzy to crank the shiathose the way he did in this thread.

/If somebody pays him for this, they are bad with money.
 
2012-12-13 11:15:36 AM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: LordJiro: Because if the unions go, big business will have no opposition in this country. And all the progress we've made will be rolled back in no time.

It's been on the path for awhile, honestly. Granted, I'm not the happiest with the larger unions, haven't been for quite some time (although the smaller ones I've interacted with I've generally always come away with a positive experience). But they've been desperately clinging to the side of the boat to keep from drowning for awhile. And it's quite easy to see how workers have already been suffering because of it - I can't count the number of people I've met working incredibly insane hours for the privilege of not losing their job.

Contrast this to America's Hat:

[www.washingtonpost.com image 769x466] 

Of course, motherf--king health care isn't an issue on the negotiating table for Canadian unions.


We actually have a saying up here. "Companies that have unions deserve them." Generally the places that unions flourish are places that would love to treat their workers badly. And government for some reason. The provincial/federal governments up here can be a little inefficient at times. The Father in law works with the BC government trying to streamline stuff, not so much firing people, but moving the lady who double checks the computer's adding (It used to make sense when the computer was just another person, but they forgot to get rid of the position when they went digital) into doing something useful.
 
2012-12-13 01:41:14 PM

Tyee: No one should be forced to join or not to join a union.


you're right, and it's a good things that's not the case today then, is it?

Why do I bet you think that the "Healthy Forests Act" was about planting trees and the Department of Defense has never started a war before?
 
2012-12-13 01:49:05 PM

Lsherm: Notabunny: badhatharry: They are vital. Their forced union membership is not.

Nobody is forced to join a union.

No, but in a closed shop you're forced to pay for the union. Don't pretend otherwise.


good thing closed shops are illegal under Taft-Hartley and have been since 1948.
 
2012-12-13 01:50:54 PM

CheapEngineer: beta_plus: Mentat: BarkingUnicorn: Not because cops and firefighters have guns and axes but teachers do not?

It's the same divide and conquer strategy Walker tried in Wisconsin. Set the unions against each other, take out the public sector unions, take out the industrial unions, and then take out the police and firefighter unions last when there's no one left to support them.

As usual, libtards try to hide their bitter tears of impotent rage by being intentionally obtuse on why having an actual skill set and doing something inherently dangerous allows one to have a sustainable and useful union.

[images.sodahead.com image 350x262]

/oh, and conveniently ignoring the 1919 Boston Police Strike

While you conveniently ignore the 1896 Philadelphia barn fire. Apparently none of you republi-tards are capable of learning from history!

\wow, that was easy


not to mention the Triangle fire, but hey who wants to?
 
2012-12-13 01:52:10 PM

chuggernaught: Lsherm: Guntram Shatterhand: And considering the Republican base holds nothing dear (as shown by throwing their Christianity away to vote for a Mormon),

[img827.imageshack.us image 455x325]

+1 for an insanely bigoted statement that will probably be ignored.

Maybe was a troll, but can be considered seriously. Baptists and Evangelicals in the South consider Mormons to be heretics. But they voted for him anyway because he wasn't the incumbent (re: black man).


That's assuming Baptists and Evangelicals only vote based on religion, which is the same malarkey as saying black people only voted for Obama because he's black.
 
2012-12-13 01:52:15 PM

BeesNuts: beta_plus: Muk_Man: beta_plus: Obvious tag on strike?

American public school teachers suck. We pay more per student on k-12 public schools and our reward is the world's most stupid children. By any measure American public school teachers suck ass. When they aren't doing their job, they're sexually abusing the children of hispanics because they know that their parents fear having the INS called. Then after sexually abusing their children, they blame the parents!

/"We teachers need more money to do a job that when we fail miserably at it will then claim we can't do it because the parents suck - while we make their kids suck us off!"

I know you're a troll. But honestly, you're saying your teachers are bad, so let's kill their unions so they can't get good pay and therefore attract intelligent people to the position(some people are altruistic, but a solid pay will draw other people). Yes there are other problems with the US system, but unions aren't necessarily the problem. We have them in Canada and our schools perform quite well... I'd love to hear some educational reform policy you think would help.

American leftists are assholes who don't blink an eye at defending child rapists (see LA County & Penn State). If the violence of the protest didn't show you that directly, I'm not sure what will. Canadian leftists are not assholes and can therefore be trusted. It's as simple as that. If you have a way of "legislating away the assholeness of the American Left", I'm all ears.

Still struggling to work your head around a center right nation electing a socialist kenyan to the whitehouse *twice*, huh?

You'll get over it.


Penn State? What teachers were accused of shenanigains with little boys? Last I checked it was the football team and their backers on the university board. get your facts straight, conservatard
 
2012-12-13 02:44:27 PM

partisan222: good thing closed shops are illegal under Taft-Hartley and have been since 1948.


Technically correct, but to a person who both wants a job and doesn't want to join a club, the distinction between "union shop" and "closed shop" is razor thin and largely an issue of semantics.
 
2012-12-13 05:48:38 PM

partisan222: BeesNuts: beta_plus: Muk_Man: beta_plus: Obvious tag on strike?

American public school teachers suck. We pay more per student on k-12 public schools and our reward is the world's most stupid children. By any measure American public school teachers suck ass. When they aren't doing their job, they're sexually abusing the children of hispanics because they know that their parents fear having the INS called. Then after sexually abusing their children, they blame the parents!

/"We teachers need more money to do a job that when we fail miserably at it will then claim we can't do it because the parents suck - while we make their kids suck us off!"

I know you're a troll. But honestly, you're saying your teachers are bad, so let's kill their unions so they can't get good pay and therefore attract intelligent people to the position(some people are altruistic, but a solid pay will draw other people). Yes there are other problems with the US system, but unions aren't necessarily the problem. We have them in Canada and our schools perform quite well... I'd love to hear some educational reform policy you think would help.

American leftists are assholes who don't blink an eye at defending child rapists (see LA County & Penn State). If the violence of the protest didn't show you that directly, I'm not sure what will. Canadian leftists are not assholes and can therefore be trusted. It's as simple as that. If you have a way of "legislating away the assholeness of the American Left", I'm all ears.

Still struggling to work your head around a center right nation electing a socialist kenyan to the whitehouse *twice*, huh?

You'll get over it.

Penn State? What teachers were accused of shenanigains with little boys? Last I checked it was the football team and their backers on the university board. get your facts straight, conservatard


You have beta_plus on ignore, eh?
 
2012-12-13 05:52:39 PM
beta_plus (Farkied in red. Ought to be brown.): American Public School teachers make children more stupid than if they didn't have any teachers at all. Getting rid of them would instantly make America smarter.

Are you perhaps speaking from experience with public schools?
 
2012-12-13 08:05:08 PM

BeesNuts: You have beta_plus on ignore, eh?


Everyone should.
 
2012-12-13 10:08:28 PM

China White Tea: partisan222: good thing closed shops are illegal under Taft-Hartley and have been since 1948.

Technically correct, but to a person who both wants a job and doesn't want to join a club, the distinction between "union shop" and "closed shop" is razor thin and largely an issue of semantics.


You can't find a job without joining a union? Fascinating.
 
2012-12-13 11:06:29 PM

China White Tea: I feel like people should be allowed to unionize and collectively bargain over things like hours and compensation and benefits, if they so desire.

I also feel like, if someone does not want to be a part of a union, they should, in no way, be barred from getting a job on that basis alone.

I almost never see this position represented in conversations about unions, and since I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the subject, I assume I am missing something that makes it an unreasonable position... so could someone tell me what that is?


You are. Part of the union' influence and it's ability to bargain on an equal basis with the employer has to do with their power to stop work until such time as a deal is negotiated between the employees and the employer.
If the employer simply chooses to employ non-union people (and they will), this gives them the advantage, and any negotiation for wages or benefits or working conditions will disappear as the union and the workers no longer have the advantage of unity. Leverage, if you will.

Now the first question to come from someone who asks about unions as you did is usually "Well why can't the single employee negotiate?"
To that I answer with a a saying I first heard from my father, who belonged to the Transport Workers' union:
"When you walk in alone, you beg
When you walk in together, you negotiate." 
Both employee and employer should have a say in how things are run in the workplace, and neither party should ever hold all the cards. The destruction of unions, organizations without which there would never have been a "middle class" in this country, has hastened our race to the bottom like no other factor in the economy.

And that's the way the bosses like it.
 
2012-12-14 02:10:12 AM
I just looked at the past three days' Fark politics headlines. I didn't peek in the threads.

Derp.

Derp EVERYWHERE.


WHY IN THE NAME OF F***ING GOD AM I STILL HERE STARING AT ALL THIS DERP!?

[runs around in frantic circles, screaming unhappily]

Should I just go ahead and set myself on fire too?

What is going on!?
 
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