27% geeze that's over half!!

No... it's closer to 11/8th of every class.

twenty-eleven percent

Uhhh....That's the joke, right?

Apos: twenty-eleven percent

Uhhh....That's the joke, right?

American fourth-graders are performing better than they were four years ago in math and reading

news flash: first graders aren't very good at math and reading, when compared to 4th graders.

/ I know, I know...

serial_crusher: American fourth-graders are performing better than they were four years ago in math and reading

news flash: first graders aren't very good at math and reading, when compared to 4th graders.

/ I know, I know...

Even scarier, our first graders have fallen behind Korean fetuses in reading!!

Lberal media conveniently left out the part about how we've jumped from 50th to 2nd in Creationism Science. Look out, Saudi Arabia! We're gaining on you!

has america ever been first in these studies? the media makes a big deal out of our slipping advantage in educated kids, but i feel like i've been hearing that same story my entire life.

Perhaps because instead of focusing on "skills" the modern education system focuses on passing standardized tests.

timujin: Perhaps because instead of focusing on "skills" the modern education system focuses on passing standardized tests.

then why didn't we do better on this standardized test?

thomps: has america ever been first in these studies? the media makes a big deal out of our slipping advantage in educated kids, but i feel like i've been hearing that same story my entire life.

From about the time this went up:


to the time we did this:



There was a massive concerted and antional effort to improve Math and science skills in this country and train more scientists and engineers since it was consiered a matter of national security. After that? Not so much.

Lionel Mandrake: Apos: twenty-eleven percent

Uhhh....That's the joke, right?

[i159.photobucket.com image 500x367]

Thought so. On a related note, FL finally has something to proudly boast of!

thomps: timujin: Perhaps because instead of focusing on "skills" the modern education system focuses on passing standardized tests.

then why didn't we do better on this standardized test?

Kind of my point. They focus so much on passing one particular test, rather than learning simply how arithmetic and mathematics work, that when presented with anything other than that test students perform poorly.

Magorn: thomps: has america ever been first in these studies? the media makes a big deal out of our slipping advantage in educated kids, but i feel like i've been hearing that same story my entire life.

From about the time this went up:
[www.vibrationdata.com image 259x186]

to the time we did this:

[static.ddmcdn.com image 400x394]

There was a massive concerted and antional effort to improve Math and science skills in this country and train more scientists and engineers since it was consiered a matter of national security. After that? Not so much.

We don't care much about edumacating our kids unless there's bragging rights to be gained over godless commies.

thomps: timujin: Perhaps because instead of focusing on "skills" the modern education system focuses on passing standardized tests.

then why didn't we do better on this standardized test?

I think the key word that you need to realize here is "standardized". See, to a naive person, that word means that everybody does it in the same way--or in this case everybody teaches to the same test.
That's not the case however, you see. I'll refer you to the dictionary definition of the word standardize:
standardize (v.): to do something in a ridiculous way, that is different from the ridiculous way that other countries do it.

See, I hope that clears things up. Those Korean kids, they're just not meeting the right standards.

timujin: Perhaps because instead of focusing on "skills" the modern education system focuses on passing standardized tests.

We always complain about test scores of Americans vs, in particular, east asians (but also, in some ways, south asians), but...

Here's the thing, at least in my experience, while many high performing east and south asian students can kick your ass in mechanical / rote recollection and application, there is a seeming lack of teaching folks how to do non-linear problem solving in their educational institutions. So, if you run into a problem that isn't a "yellow + blue = green" situation, usually North American and Western European students will start to show the areas they excel within.

It's similar to the problem I saw expressed by the Editor-in-Chief from Yen Press in that the submissions from new artists for comic series from Japanese and Korean amateurs have top notch visual artwork, but the stories are usually pretty linear and by-the-numbers, while the North American submissions often don't reach those same lofty visual heights, but the stories tend to be more often less straight-forward or formulaic affairs.

The word needs both kinds of people, of course.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The word *world* needs both kinds of people, of course.

My world also needs a proofreader, apparently.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: timujin: Perhaps because instead of focusing on "skills" the modern education system focuses on passing standardized tests.

We always complain about test scores of Americans vs, in particular, east asians (but also, in some ways, south asians), but...

Here's the thing, at least in my experience, while many high performing east and south asian students can kick your ass in mechanical / rote recollection and application, there is a seeming lack of teaching folks how to do non-linear problem solving in their educational institutions. So, if you run into a problem that isn't a "yellow + blue = green" situation, usually North American and Western European students will start to show the areas they excel within.

It's similar to the problem I saw expressed by the Editor-in-Chief from Yen Press in that the submissions from new artists for comic series from Japanese and Korean amateurs have top notch visual artwork, but the stories are usually pretty linear and by-the-numbers, while the North American submissions often don't reach those same lofty visual heights, but the stories tend to be more often less straight-forward or formulaic affairs.

The word needs both kinds of people, of course.

Absolutely true, But that doesn't really address the fact that as our student's abilities have been steadily decreasing over the last couple of decades, our engineering and scientific workforce has declined as well. People talk about unemployment problems, but there are a ton of jobs out there that can't be filled because we don't have enough qualified candidates in those disciplines. Being able to create less formulaic stories has left us with more unemployed hipsters and fewer PhD's.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The word needs both kinds of people, of course.



Y'all are slipping in international Farker cliche competitions

timujin: People talk about unemployment problems, but there are a ton of jobs out there that can't be filled because we don't have enough qualified candidates in those disciplines

I dunno, most of the time this is not exactly true in my experience.

By far the most common scenario (outside of rather demanding and esoteric medical fields) is that the folks looking to hire people for those "tons of jobs" don't want to pay the going rate for experienced people in those positions, and then bemoan the fact that they can't find a "qualified candidate" for their cut-rate offer.

FTFA: But girls rule when it comes to reading.



JK. Good on Florida too, actually. 

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: timujin: People talk about unemployment problems, but there are a ton of jobs out there that can't be filled because we don't have enough qualified candidates in those disciplines

I dunno, most of the time this is not exactly true in my experience.

By far the most common scenario (outside of rather demanding and esoteric medical fields) is that the folks looking to hire people for those "tons of jobs" don't want to pay the going rate for experienced people in those positions, and then bemoan the fact that they can't find a "qualified candidate" for their cut-rate offer.

Perhaps, but the articles I've read almost always point to a lack of qualified candidates, whether in nursing (especially in nursing, actually), IT, engineering or other such disciplines that require an understanding of math and/or science.

US 8th-grader's math skills have declined nearly twenty-eleven percent when compared to those of many of our global competitors

Average Fark submitter's grammar skills aren't looking so great either.

timujin: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: timujin: People talk about unemployment problems, but there are a ton of jobs out there that can't be filled because we don't have enough qualified candidates in those disciplines

I dunno, most of the time this is not exactly true in my experience.

By far the most common scenario (outside of rather demanding and esoteric medical fields) is that the folks looking to hire people for those "tons of jobs" don't want to pay the going rate for experienced people in those positions, and then bemoan the fact that they can't find a "qualified candidate" for their cut-rate offer.

Perhaps, but the articles I've read almost always point to a lack of qualified candidates, whether in nursing (especially in nursing, actually), IT, engineering or other such disciplines that require an understanding of math and/or science.

Nursing is a demand field right now, though the pay for qualified applicants is actually in-line.

I can tell you that in IT it is *routinely* the case that companies underbid, basically because they can then justify an H1B. I watched my own company need but not hire anyone for an Oracle DBA position for 18 months because they didn't want to pay the going rate for someone with the skillset required.

siyuntz: US 8th-grader's math skills have declined nearly twenty-eleven percent when compared to those of many of our global competitors

Average Fark submitter's grammar skills aren't looking so great either.

"[T]o those of many of our" is correct.

"US 8th-grader's math skills" was the error.

doyner: siyuntz: US 8th-grader's math skills have declined nearly twenty-eleven percent when compared to those of many of our global competitors

Average Fark submitter's grammar skills aren't looking so great either.

"[T]o those of many of our" is correct.

"US 8th-grader's math skills" was the error.

Maybe subs was refering to one specific US 8th-grader.

/ Though I do have to ponder whether that was an acronym for the United States (of America), or the word "us" capitalized to denote emphasis.

doyner: siyuntz: US 8th-grader's math skills have declined nearly twenty-eleven percent when compared to those of many of our global competitors

Average Fark submitter's grammar skills aren't looking so great either.

"[T]o those of many of our" is correct.

"US 8th-grader's math skills" was the error.

You're right. I actually didn't mean to embolden anything, and am not quite sure how it happened. My life was easier when my comments auto-previewed.

/Well, thank goodness it's only one 8th-grader

Rent Party: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats:
I can tell you that in IT it is *routinely* the case that companies underbid, basically because they can then justify an H1B. I watched my own company need but not hire anyone for an Oracle DBA position for 18 months because they didn't want to pay the going rate for someone with the skillset required.

If I'm operating that business, and I have an open rec for 18 months, it would make me question the need for the position in the first place.

It was a situation where the existing people could do station-holding on issues basically forever, but it required someone with a more advanced skillset and prior experience to move forward. I have no doubt that there was a business impact in terms of new project progress.

My relatives in Ireland are horrible spellers.