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(Salon)   A federal judged has banned North Carolina from issuing "Choose Life" license plates unless they offer a "Choose Death" alternative   (salon.com) divider line 285
    More: Interesting, North Carolina, reproductive rights, state legislators, discrimination  
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7489 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2012 at 12:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-12 05:10:20 PM

giftedmadness: Zasteva: giftedmadness: That means that the state is supporting you in expressing a Pro-Life point of view, but denying you a similar expression of a Pro-Choice point of view.

The judicial order requires the state to either allow both, or deny both, but not promote one view over the other.

Choose Life is a pro-choice point of view!

No, it isn't.

"Choose Life" is a directive about what to choose -- life for your unborn child verses abortion.

"Respect Choice", by contrast is a directive that people should be respected and allowed make whatever choice they wish for their unborn child, life or abortion.

Hint: if they are telling you what to choice, they aren't supporting your right to make the choice.

Nice mental gymnastics there. There isn't enough room on a license plate to say,....We respect your right to choose, but we hope you choose life. Get it?


If that was truly their intent, then they should have chosen to not print the plates at all. But they chose, and a federal judge ruled that they chose poorly.
 
2012-12-12 05:13:29 PM
"Choose Life" "God is Dead"
"Abortion is Murder" "Beer makes Stupid"


I'd see "choose life" as a copyright infringement on Trainspotting.
 
2012-12-12 05:15:57 PM
grasse: Well that and Margret Sanger never actually said that! She thought whites superior to blacks as a race, but she also thought they should have access to birth control.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=margaret+sanger+human+weeds
 
2012-12-12 05:26:02 PM

letrole: grasse: Well that and Margret Sanger never actually said that! She thought whites superior to blacks as a race, but she also thought they should have access to birth control.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=margaret+sanger+human+weeds


Second link down!
 
2012-12-12 05:27:28 PM
Choose Life would seem to fully qualify as an oxymoron.
 
2012-12-12 05:36:47 PM

Rufus Lee King: I really don't know how to put it more simply.

I feel that it is hypocritical to to call suppression of other people's opinions "free speech".


Sure, but since that ISN'T what's happening here, I'm still confused about what your point is.
 
2012-12-12 05:41:55 PM

Flakeloaf: Why is a state-run agency using tax money to express an opinion, anyway? It would be different if abortion were illegal in NC because at least then there'd be some kind of backup.

In before "it's totally an expression of the sanctity of life and the rejection of all violence against your fellow man, maaaaan"


www.pjvoice.com

What a state-run (well, District-run) agency using tax money to express an opinion may look like.
 
drp
2012-12-12 05:42:21 PM

ISO15693: [www.coastal.ca.gov image 247x124]

There isnt a "Pollute our coast and oceans" alternative.


There's no free-speech reason to force the state to print license plates inciting people to commit a crime.


[www.calvet.ca.gov image 168x84]

Also no "Dishonor veterans" alternative.


Did someone ask for a "dishonor veterans" plate, meet the same requirments the "honor veterans" plate met, and then get declined? No? Odd.
 
2012-12-12 05:47:01 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Even With A Chainsaw: CapeFearCadaver: Even With A Chainsaw: Sure, but I specifically asked how it was "unconstitutional" that a state made a plate that said Choose Life.

It's unconstitutional because they were vehemently opposed to offering the opposing viewpoint. Somewhat among these lines:

Even With A Chainsaw: So the argument is that if the government allows a forum for speech to exist, it must allow the same degree of speech to exist in that forum as in all other forums?

Much like offering protest permits to organizations such as the KKK or WBC. Even though most people on all sides disagree with their messages. If you as a State Government are going to give protest permits that are anti-war, you must also give protest permits to pro-war. Issue them all or none.

You can't create one avenue yet restrict the other avenue when it comes to a State's response to free speech.

Got it. Alright, makes sense to me.

Yay. Here's your beer:

[brainofjay.files.wordpress.com image 640x480]


Good choice, haven't had that in a while.
 
2012-12-12 06:05:18 PM

Zasteva: giftedmadness: That means that the state is supporting you in expressing a Pro-Life point of view, but denying you a similar expression of a Pro-Choice point of view.

The judicial order requires the state to either allow both, or deny both, but not promote one view over the other.

Choose Life is a pro-choice point of view!

No, it isn't.

"Choose Life" is a directive about what to choose -- life for your unborn child verses abortion.

"Respect Choice", by contrast is a directive that people should be respected and allowed make whatever choice they wish for their unborn child, life or abortion.

Hint: if they are telling you what to choice, they aren't supporting your right to make the choice.


You are wrong here. It is possible to encourage some one to make a choice and respect their right to make the choice. It isn't generally done that way but encouraging someone does not automatically imply you don't respect their rights.
 
2012-12-12 06:08:30 PM

giftedmadness: Nice mental gymnastics there. There isn't enough room on a license plate to say,....We respect your right to choose, but we hope you choose life. Get it?


A better descriptive "no room to put on a plate" would be

"We tried to outlaw your other option, but failed, so until we fix that, choose life"
 
2012-12-12 06:11:47 PM
img442.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-12 06:12:56 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: giftedmadness: Nice mental gymnastics there. There isn't enough room on a license plate to say,....We respect your right to choose, but we hope you choose life. Get it?

A better descriptive "no room to put on a plate" would be

"We tried to outlaw your other option, but failed, so until we fix that, choose life"


That precludes the possibility that there are people people that agree that abortion should be legal but wouldn't have one and hope others don't.

I know it is a small subset of people but I know a couple.
 
2012-12-12 06:18:56 PM

jst3p: Vlad_the_Inaner: giftedmadness: Nice mental gymnastics there. There isn't enough room on a license plate to say,....We respect your right to choose, but we hope you choose life. Get it?

A better descriptive "no room to put on a plate" would be

"We tried to outlaw your other option, but failed, so until we fix that, choose life"

That precludes the possibility that there are people people that agree that abortion should be legal but wouldn't have one and hope others don't.

I know it is a small subset of people but I know a couple.


Were they instrumental in the design and promotion of your state's 'choose life" plates.

If not, care to characterize the people who were?

/odds are its the larger subset, eh
 
2012-12-12 06:22:26 PM

jst3p: Zasteva: giftedmadness: That means that the state is supporting you in expressing a Pro-Life point of view, but denying you a similar expression of a Pro-Choice point of view.

The judicial order requires the state to either allow both, or deny both, but not promote one view over the other.

Choose Life is a pro-choice point of view!

No, it isn't.

"Choose Life" is a directive about what to choose -- life for your unborn child verses abortion.

"Respect Choice", by contrast is a directive that people should be respected and allowed make whatever choice they wish for their unborn child, life or abortion.

Hint: if they are telling you what to choice, they aren't supporting your right to make the choice.

You are wrong here. It is possible to encourage some one to make a choice and respect their right to make the choice. It isn't generally done that way but encouraging someone does not automatically imply you don't respect their rights.


You know I have all my reasonable conversations to persuade others with people in the car behind me.

The problem is isn't respecting someone's right to make a choice or encouraging them to make a choice, it's telling them which outcome meets with your approval. If your starting point is telling them which outcome is "correct" you've just shut down all discussion. You are also telling a complete stranger with no idea their situation.

It says "Choose Life" not "Hey, before you go to the clinic, honk and I will pull over so we can talk".

What if is said "Choose Chemo?" or "Just say no to blood transfusions". Oh wait, are those private medical conditions?
 
2012-12-12 06:29:13 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-12 06:33:29 PM

giftedmadness: Zasteva: giftedmadness: That means that the state is supporting you in expressing a Pro-Life point of view, but denying you a similar expression of a Pro-Choice point of view.

The judicial order requires the state to either allow both, or deny both, but not promote one view over the other.

Choose Life is a pro-choice point of view!

No, it isn't.

"Choose Life" is a directive about what to choose -- life for your unborn child verses abortion.

"Respect Choice", by contrast is a directive that people should be respected and allowed make whatever choice they wish for their unborn child, life or abortion.

Hint: if they are telling you what to choice, they aren't supporting your right to make the choice.

Nice mental gymnastics there. There isn't enough room on a license plate to say,....We respect your right to choose, but we hope you choose life. Get it?


Yes, I got what you are saying the first time I read it earlier in the thread.

Can you honestly tell me that you believe a survey of the American populace would say that was the meaning of the "Choose Life" license plates?
 
2012-12-12 06:35:53 PM

Mouser: What a state-run (well, District-run) agency using tax money to express an opinion may look like.


Is it merely an opinion or is it fact?
 
2012-12-12 06:39:45 PM

jigger: Mouser: What a state-run (well, District-run) agency using tax money to express an opinion may look like.

Is it merely an opinion or is it fact?


Ask your Congressman.
 
2012-12-12 06:58:47 PM

jst3p: Hint: if they are telling you what to choose, they aren't supporting your right to make the choice.

You are wrong here. It is possible to encourage some one to make a choice and respect their right to make the choice. It isn't generally done that way but encouraging someone does not automatically imply you don't respect their rights.


Of course, if they ask you for your opinion, then you can legitimately say "hey, it's your decision but I think this would be best and that's what I'd recommend" without any disrespect of their right to choose.

And, it is possible to provide someone with accurate and honest information about their choices, while fully respecting their right to self-determination.

But any unsolicited attempt to influence that choice is an attempt to exert your will over their own, even if you only have their best interests at heart. The amount of pressure you apply is inversely proportionate to how much you are respecting their right to choose.

I can't imagine most women care what the guy in the car in front of them thinks they should do about their pregnancy.
 
2012-12-12 08:37:05 PM
I find it interesting that South Carolina has a crescent moon on their license plates. You know who else uses the crescent as their symbol?
 
2012-12-12 08:54:55 PM

Diogenes: God Is My Co-Pirate: Can I just say, as a feminist and mother, I'm still mildly annoyed they revoked that Eat The Kids First plate.

Yeah, I was thinking of a good counter proposal to the Choose Life plates we have here in FL. "Kill More Babies" seemed a bit too over the top. But I think your "Eat The Kids First" idea has legs. Delicious, tender, young legs.

But one serious idea I had for a counter was "Choose Choice".


I considered that one too. I'd buy one.
 
2012-12-12 09:02:31 PM

drxym: The stupid part is "pro-choice" is not "pro-death"


Fast one way ticket to the ignore. See ya!
 
2012-12-12 09:50:50 PM
That makes me want to register my car in North Carolina just to get that plate.

// My parking tag used to be #666, I miss that awesome parking tag.
 
2012-12-12 09:54:33 PM

drxym: The stupid part is "pro-choice" is not "pro-death"


No, the stupid part is that North Carolina altered its Constitution to deny the civil rights of a select few of its citizens and they called it a choice.

/On behalf of those many North Carolinians who voted against the gay marriage ban, I would like to apologize for the stupidity of our very inbred state legislature.
//My state is lovely, but Raleigh really should be nuked from orbit.
///Only way to be sure.
 
2012-12-12 10:05:21 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: //My state is lovely, but Raleigh really should be nuked from orbit.


You do realize that Raleigh/Wake county has been consistently blue for quite a few years now...

But by all means, enjoy the complete GOP hell without recourse if Raleigh were to be nuked from orbit and undermine any advance NC as a State has made. Also, this license plate dealio would have gone unchallenged.
 
2012-12-13 02:53:21 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I find it interesting that South Carolina has a crescent moon on their license plates. You know who else uses the crescent as their symbol?


Dreamworks?
 
2012-12-13 08:22:35 AM

rikkitikkitavi: The options in Virginia are almost ridiculous.

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]


That's all you have? The great state of Florida has 104 different plates to choose from!

/I think this whole license plate thing is getting a little ridiculous.
 
2012-12-13 10:06:01 AM

Deucednuisance: imbrial: lulz if they're manufactured by death row inmates

Especially in New Hampshire:


At least that plate gives you two viewpoints at once.
 
2012-12-13 10:08:15 AM

Tman144: Even With A Chainsaw: Zasteva: Rufus Lee King: "This is a great victory for the free speech rights of all North Carolinians.", said Chris Brook of the ACLU.

Rufus Lee King: Really? How does that follow? People have the right to free expression until someone says something that you don't agree with?

Perhaps you missed the part in the article where North Carolina rejected the "Respect Choice" license plate.

That means that the state is supporting you in expressing a Pro-Life point of view, but denying you a similar expression of a Pro-Choice point of view.

The judicial order requires the state to either allow both, or deny both, but not promote one view over the other.

That's all well and good in any argument that only has two sides. Choose Heads or Tails.

Even if they print Choose Life plates and Respect Choice plates, my views are being oppressed if I believe any of the following:

Choose Life except in the case that the mother's life is in danger, then kill that babby.
Choose Life except in cases of danger to mother/rape/incest, then kill babby.
Choose Life except in cases of birf defects/danger to mother/rape/incest, then kill babby
Respect Choice unless in last trimester, then save clump of cells.
Respect Choice unless in last two trimesters, then save clump of cells.
Respect Choice, but institute programs to make potential mothers aware of alternatives
Respect Choice, but force women to undergo transvaginal ultrasounds, so they can see their clump.
Etc...

Is it the state's responsibility to print all of those plates?
Seems silly. 

This isn't about freedom of speech, this is about someone getting their panties in a bunch, which any of us could theoretically do if we can't get a license plate that says whatever our precious little snowflake minds can think up.

Yes. If the state is going to sponsor political speech, it has to sponsor all or nothing. That's why NC is stupid for doing this in the first place. Mass. has the right idea, you can have whatever stupid plate you want if you can get $100,000.00 to fund a bond for it.

The people with their panties in a bunch are the assholes who feel that everyone who drives behind them needs to know their political opinions.


Amen. The states should just print number plates, period. Anything else can go on a gods-damned bumper sticker.

/has Florida Columbia/Challenger plate
 
2012-12-13 10:17:17 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I find it interesting that South Carolina has a crescent moon on their license plates. You know who else uses the crescent as their symbol?


Dreamworks.
 
2012-12-13 10:18:49 AM

tilrman: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I find it interesting that South Carolina has a crescent moon on their license plates. You know who else uses the crescent as their symbol?

Dreamworks?


Sorry. Missed your reply on the first pass.
 
2012-12-13 10:34:43 AM

PastaFazoole: rikkitikkitavi: The options in Virginia are almost ridiculous.

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

[www.dmv.virginia.gov image 119x61]

That's all you have? The great state of Florida has 104 different plates to choose from!

/I think this whole license plate thing is getting a little ridiculous.


No, we have so many more than that. rikki's list was not all inclusive. I counted 100 by the time I got to "G".

Link
 
2012-12-13 10:56:23 AM
I always thought it should be "choose choice" and have 2 crayon drawn ladies drinking at the bar...
 
2012-12-13 11:36:54 AM

Generation_D: drxym: The stupid part is "pro-choice" is not "pro-death"

Fast one way ticket to the ignore. See ya!


I have no idea what you are taking offence at, so perhaps before you go through with your pathetic act, you would care to enlighten me first.
 
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