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(YouTube)   Video: US debt visualized in physical $100 bills   (youtube.com) divider line 56
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5620 clicks; posted to Video » on 12 Dec 2012 at 10:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-12 08:15:14 AM  
Clearly the solution is to spend more money.
 
2012-12-12 08:23:41 AM  
Video: irrelevant analogies
 
2012-12-12 09:51:34 AM  
ooh, let's show it in pennies! or bottle caps!
 
2012-12-12 10:43:30 AM  
Can we show a pile of boogers picked annually in the US for scale?
 
2012-12-12 10:46:34 AM  
Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works...but it still doesn't work correctly in my head.
 
2012-12-12 11:09:24 AM  
Wow that explains why the Chinese are buying our Canadian mining companies.
 
2012-12-12 11:24:52 AM  

moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works...but it still doesn't work correctly in my head.


About 5 trillion is in intergovernmental holdings about 5 trillion is held by foreign governments and the rest is in pension funds, mutual funds, banks, etc.

If you want to help pay down the debt directly you can go to pay.gov where any payment goes directly to paying down the national debt.
 
2012-12-12 11:28:31 AM  
As a British Citizen living in the UK, i'll pass...but of the 5 trillion held by other governments, well surely they must have borrowed from other governments..so why can't they all sit round a table and cancel it all out?
 
2012-12-12 11:29:46 AM  
unless it is tangible, most people will never get it...
 
2012-12-12 11:44:13 AM  

Carth: moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works...but it still doesn't work correctly in my head.

About 5 trillion is in intergovernmental holdings about 5 trillion is held by foreign governments and the rest is in pension funds, mutual funds, banks, etc.

If you want to help pay down the debt directly you can go to pay.gov where any payment goes directly to paying down the national debt.


Bill Gate's entire fortune would cover about 3 months of interest on the debt.

People like to say that deficits/debt don't matter, but we do have ot pay interest on that money, and in 2012, we paid over $350 billion in interest at an aggregate rate of about 2%. If rates go up to 5%, next year the interest on the debt alone could be the biggest single item in the federal budget. If the interest rates were to hit 15% like they were in the mid 1980s, we would be royally screwed because the debt is already equal to the entire US GDP.
 
2012-12-12 12:07:56 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Carth: moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works...but it still doesn't work correctly in my head.

About 5 trillion is in intergovernmental holdings about 5 trillion is held by foreign governments and the rest is in pension funds, mutual funds, banks, etc.

If you want to help pay down the debt directly you can go to pay.gov where any payment goes directly to paying down the national debt.

Bill Gate's entire fortune would cover about 3 months of interest on the debt.

People like to say that deficits/debt don't matter, but we do have ot pay interest on that money, and in 2012, we paid over $350 billion in interest at an aggregate rate of about 2%. If rates go up to 5%, next year the interest on the debt alone could be the biggest single item in the federal budget. If the interest rates were to hit 15% like they were in the mid 1980s, we would be royally screwed because the debt is already equal to the entire US GDP.


yes, but the US government is in the unique position of being able to set their own interest rates. Now you may say "but what if other countries just stop lending to us unless we raise them!" to which i respond that until there is a better offer out there countries have and will continue to put their money us US bonds since we're still the only game in town.
 
2012-12-12 12:28:43 PM  

Carth: yes, but the US government is in the unique position of being able to set their own interest rates. Now you may say "but what if other countries just stop lending to us unless we raise them!" to which i respond that until there is a better offer out there countries have and will continue to put their money us US bonds since we're still the only game in town.


You are incorrect. The money will flow to wherever there is a better rate of return. Today there aren't many alternatives, but tomorrow I may be able to get a better return in China or India or Germany or Brazil. When that happens, rates will rise because the US must issue new debt to pay mandatory operating expenses and the US will have to discount the bonds to whatever the market currently bears.
 
2012-12-12 12:45:21 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Carth: yes, but the US government is in the unique position of being able to set their own interest rates. Now you may say "but what if other countries just stop lending to us unless we raise them!" to which i respond that until there is a better offer out there countries have and will continue to put their money us US bonds since we're still the only game in town.

You are incorrect. The money will flow to wherever there is a better rate of return. Today there aren't many alternatives, but tomorrow I may be able to get a better return in China or India or Germany or Brazil. When that happens, rates will rise because the US must issue new debt to pay mandatory operating expenses and the US will have to discount the bonds to whatever the market currently bears.


You already can get a better rate of return in just about every country. Greek bonds are trading at about 13% (down from 35% in march) German and French bonds are right around 2%, Chinese bonds aren't publicly tradable like most countries but they pay between 3.5 and 4% and India is paying over 8%. Yet people still are pouring billions into US bonds paying 1.6%. Until a new superpower with an open economy emerges the US won't have any problem attracting investors.
 
2012-12-12 01:30:09 PM  
I hate Obama twice now.
 
2012-12-12 01:31:26 PM  
"Physical"

You keep using that word...
 
2012-12-12 01:32:06 PM  

moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works...but it still doesn't work correctly in my head.


It's borrowed from ourselfs against inflation from the us treasury. If we can't pay it back to outselve then the dollar is worthless. In reality china only holds, don't quote me but I think it's less than 4 trillion.
 
2012-12-12 01:36:56 PM  
One trillion dollars.
One trillion candy bars.
One trillion blow jobs.

I have no problem visualizing that a trillion is a lot. Thanks anyway, though.
 
2012-12-12 02:39:31 PM  
www.onemetal.com

Yep. Looks aboot right..
 
2012-12-12 02:40:11 PM  
I would like a comparison done in the equivalent value of Slinkies.
 
2012-12-12 02:42:01 PM  
Wow the government spends money like my mother does. Doesn't realize it has to come from somewhere.
 
2012-12-12 03:11:35 PM  
Of the $1.6 Trillion in new revenue Obama has proposed gained through tax increases, $1.2 Trillion of that will go towards new spending.

So, to avoid the fiscal cliff we are going to raise taxes to collect an additional $1.6 trillion. And then use 75% of that on new spending.
 
2012-12-12 03:30:11 PM  
Our per-capita debt is still only about half that of Japan or Singapore (Japan's total debt is like 80% of ours), and neither of those countries has had its economy evaporate overnight. As a percentage of GDP, our debt situation is better than most EU countries.

Yes, doing nothing about the debt would be a bad idea, but we're not going to have creditors come and repossess the country, lol.
 
2012-12-12 03:34:13 PM  
Doesn't someone do one of these videos every year?

Nevermind, it's the same people. They just changed websites
 
2012-12-12 03:45:35 PM  
It takes a lot of money to kill brown people.
 
2012-12-12 03:47:28 PM  
Debt versus Deficit: What's the Difference?

If you are concerned about debt, you are an idiot. You SHOULD be concerned about the deficit. Useless video is useless.
 
2012-12-12 04:01:08 PM  

moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 


These things are incredibly easy to find out.

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works..

no. no you're not.
 
2012-12-12 04:09:14 PM  

moel: Who has 16 trillion to lend out?


Well, a lot of it (most of it?) is accrued interest. Compound interest can be a biatch if you only make the minimum payment.
 
2012-12-12 04:10:55 PM  

kwkg3ek: Debt versus Deficit: What's the Difference?


You know what contributes to the deficit? Interest on the debt.
 
2012-12-12 04:13:19 PM  
Why don't we restrict ourselves to printer ink cartridges as an element of physical value, so that we may have a more manageable figure?
 
2012-12-12 04:34:20 PM  
Interesting but from a site called 'demon-ocracy'.

What a bunch of farking azzhats.

They don't like democracy then what do they want?

A dictatorship with them in power, naturally.
 
2012-12-12 04:56:02 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Carth: yes, but the US government is in the unique position of being able to set their own interest rates. Now you may say "but what if other countries just stop lending to us unless we raise them!" to which i respond that until there is a better offer out there countries have and will continue to put their money us US bonds since we're still the only game in town.

You are incorrect. The money will flow to wherever there is a better rate of return. Today there aren't many alternatives, but tomorrow I may be able to get a better return in China or India or Germany or Brazil. When that happens, rates will rise because the US must issue new debt to pay mandatory operating expenses and the US will have to discount the bonds to whatever the market currently bears.


Better rate of return... if risk were equal.
 
2012-12-12 05:00:02 PM  

Savage Bacon: Why don't we restrict ourselves to printer ink cartridges as an element of physical value, so that we may have a more manageable figure?


What's wrong with using the old stand-by: Rhode Islands?
 
2012-12-12 05:25:10 PM  

SlothB77: Of the $1.6 Trillion in new revenue Obama has proposed gained through tax increases, $1.2 Trillion of that will go towards new spending.

So, to avoid the fiscal cliff we are going to raise taxes to collect an additional $1.6 trillion. And then use 75% of that on new spending.


The economy does well when money is circulating. You have to take money out of circulation to pay down the debt, either with spending cuts or tax hikes, or both. Not only Obama, but every previous government, has chosen to prioritize the economy over the debt.

I agree that the debt needs to be addressed, but during a recession the economy needs to take priority.
 
2012-12-12 05:32:48 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

These things are incredibly easy to find out.

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works..

no. no you're not.


Hence the reason i used the word vaguely
 
2012-12-12 05:36:11 PM  

Carth: You already can get a better rate of return in just about every country. Greek bonds are trading at about 13% (down from 35% in march) German and French bonds are right around 2%, Chinese bonds aren't publicly tradable like most countries but they pay between 3.5 and 4% and India is paying over 8%. Yet people still are pouring billions into US bonds paying 1.6%. Until a new superpower with an open economy emerges the US won't have any problem attracting investors.


kim jong-un: You are incorrect. The money will flow to wherever there is a better rate of return. Today there aren't many alternatives, but tomorrow I may be able to get a better return in China or India or Germany or Brazil. When that happens, rates will rise because the US must issue new debt to pay mandatory operating expenses and the US will have to discount the bonds to whatever the market currently bears.

Better rate of return... if risk were equal.


Just 5 years ago housing values in the US had never gone down making mortgage derivatives a sure bet. When the world economy improves rates will go up. Anyone who thinks the US can dictate interest rates in a world market is deluding themselves.
 
2012-12-12 05:47:08 PM  

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: I hate Obama twice now.


then you must really hate george w. bush, as he was responsible for the bulk of the debt.
 
2012-12-12 06:29:19 PM  

FlashHarry: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: I hate Obama twice now.

then you must really hate george w. bush, as he was responsible for the bulk of the debt.


www.allfordmustangs.com

I love how republicans never know this little bit of info. You could yell it from the mountaintops for another four years, and they'd still think it's Obama's fault.
 
2012-12-12 06:36:31 PM  
At least it seems to be easily managed.
 
2012-12-12 07:24:47 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: FlashHarry: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: I hate Obama twice now.

then you must really hate george w. bush, as he was responsible for the bulk of the debt.

[www.allfordmustangs.com image 387x292]

I love how republicans never know this little bit of info. You could yell it from the mountaintops for another four years, and they'd still think it's Obama's fault.


Except that Obama is on track to do in 4 years what Bush did in 8. Bush's total across 8 years is about 6.2 trillion. In his first 3 years, Obama has racked up over 4 trillion. You can certainly shout that from the mountaintops through this year, but by FY 2013, Obama will have eclipsed Bush, and by the time FY 2016 is in the books We'll be looking fondly back at an administration that was overspending by less than 1 trillion a year.
 
2012-12-12 08:23:55 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Ego edo infantia cattus: FlashHarry: OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: I hate Obama twice now.

then you must really hate george w. bush, as he was responsible for the bulk of the debt.

[www.allfordmustangs.com image 387x292]

I love how republicans never know this little bit of info. You could yell it from the mountaintops for another four years, and they'd still think it's Obama's fault.

Except that Obama is on track to do in 4 years what Bush did in 8. Bush's total across 8 years is about 6.2 trillion. In his first 3 years, Obama has racked up over 4 trillion. You can certainly shout that from the mountaintops through this year, but by FY 2013, Obama will have eclipsed Bush, and by the time FY 2016 is in the books We'll be looking fondly back at an administration that was overspending by less than 1 trillion a year.


What did Obama spend it on? Getting us out of what's been deemed The Great Recession. Bush did some of that as well, but what were his other pet projects? An invasion of Iraq? Tax cuts for the wealthy?

What are Obama's mistakes?
 
2012-12-12 08:30:07 PM  

BillCo: Clearly the solution is to spend more money.


Much like a defibrillator can save a person after their heart has stopped from electric shock, yes, that sometimes works. The goal is to do it reasonably and to put that money into relevant projects, as is looking to be done with the fiscal cliff deal.
 
2012-12-12 08:40:47 PM  
Hey say what you want about the political message here, that's a pretty cool video for illustrating just how much physical space that much money occupies.
 
2012-12-12 08:58:03 PM  

moel: The All-Powerful Atheismo: moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

These things are incredibly easy to find out.

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works..

no. no you're not.

Hence the reason i used the word vaguely


I'm just saying, don't listen to anything from that POS.
 
2012-12-12 09:07:40 PM  

Carth: moel: Sweet mother of God.

We're all boned....just out of interest. The one thing i've never quite understood...is who has lent all that money to the US Government, and where did it come from in the first place? Who has 16 trillion to lend out? 

I mean i've watch zietgeist and so i'm vaguely aware of how the federal reserve works...but it still doesn't work correctly in my head.

About 5 trillion is in intergovernmental holdings about 5 trillion is held by foreign governments and the rest is in pension funds, mutual funds, banks, etc.

If you want to help pay down the debt directly you can go to pay.gov where any payment goes directly to paying down the national debt.


Done. In fact put me down for 20% over that...
www.proyouthpages.com
 
2012-12-12 09:38:09 PM  
So they need to do a visualization of what 300 million people looks like. Because if you stacked up 300 million people that would be a bigger pile.

The actual size of the debt doesn't matter much, it is the debt to GDP ratio and the debt per worker numbers that matter. Now those are serious and problematic numbers by themselves, but just looking at the raw debt number tells you little. I mean if you just look at the debt number then Greece is doing better than us.
 
2012-12-12 10:52:10 PM  
Wow... blew my freakin' mind.

Trying to imagine a number like 1 trillion is tough... nice job giving it 'some kind' or dimension...
 
2012-12-12 10:52:43 PM  

Carth: Mr. Eugenides: Carth: yes, but the US government is in the unique position of being able to set their own interest rates. Now you may say "but what if other countries just stop lending to us unless we raise them!" to which i respond that until there is a better offer out there countries have and will continue to put their money us US bonds since we're still the only game in town.

You are incorrect. The money will flow to wherever there is a better rate of return. Today there aren't many alternatives, but tomorrow I may be able to get a better return in China or India or Germany or Brazil. When that happens, rates will rise because the US must issue new debt to pay mandatory operating expenses and the US will have to discount the bonds to whatever the market currently bears.

You already can get a better rate of return in just about every country. Greek bonds are trading at about 13% (down from 35% in march) German and French bonds are right around 2%, Chinese bonds aren't publicly tradable like most countries but they pay between 3.5 and 4% and India is paying over 8%. Yet people still are pouring billions into US bonds paying 1.6%. Until a new superpower with an open economy emerges the US won't have any problem attracting investors.


You are arguing with a guy who admits he doesn't understand it.

This thread was done in one.
 
2012-12-12 11:11:58 PM  
How many dead brown people will that buy me?
 
2012-12-13 12:24:26 AM  

moel: We're all boned.


Only if the people we owe it to want to collect. Fortunately for us, we have an army to prevent them from breaking our kneecaps if we don't pay up.

HA HA! WE BORROWED A SHIAT-LOAD OF MONEY FROM YOU AND WE BOUGHT GUNS AND AMMO SO YOU COULDN'T EVER COLLECT. SUCKER!
 
2012-12-13 01:10:31 AM  

crab66: I would like a comparison done in the equivalent value of Slinkies.


i.imgur.com
 
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