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(Imgur)   Remember that guy who shot up the Clackamas Town Center on 12/11/12? Here's what someone posted on 12/10/12   (i.imgur.com) divider line 167
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19892 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2012 at 8:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-12 08:36:47 AM
I suppose this should bother me, but for some reason I just find myself shrugging.
 
2012-12-12 08:37:27 AM
Was it this?


i.imgur.com


This was in yesterday's thread, and the poster indicated it had come from Reddit.
 
2012-12-12 08:38:23 AM
Those show up every time shiat like this happens. Certainly that one is real though.
 
2012-12-12 08:39:39 AM
He was probably referring to some sort of flash mob dance thing, and it all went horribly wrong.
 
2012-12-12 08:40:07 AM
Oh. :(
 
2012-12-12 08:40:14 AM
I totally believe it! This is in no way photoshopped.
 
2012-12-12 08:40:45 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: Was it this?


[i.imgur.com image 850x272]


This was in yesterday's thread, and the poster indicated it had come from Reddit.



It's from 4chan. You remember the skit from the Chappelle Show where he's imagining that he's inside the internet? 4chan is the sleazy guy that takes him into a room full of porn, more porn, and goat porn.
 
2012-12-12 08:42:18 AM
One of these gets posted after every gun massacre.
 
2012-12-12 08:44:07 AM

ShavedApe:

It's from 4chan. You remember the skit from the Chappelle Show where he's imagining that he's inside the internet? 4chan is the sleazy guy that takes him into a room full of porn, more porn, and goat porn.


He meant the screencap itself, not the site screencapped in it, which is very obviously /b/.
 
2012-12-12 08:44:37 AM
Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?
 
2012-12-12 08:45:57 AM
The internet's wretched hive of scum and villainy had a scummy villainous wretch in it? I'm shocked.
 
2012-12-12 08:49:46 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?


No, we have to fire 4chan and ban pictures from teh internets. Because, like, children.
 
2012-12-12 08:49:53 AM
I called it as being a b/tard yesterday.
 
2012-12-12 08:50:15 AM
Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.
 
2012-12-12 08:50:47 AM

target="_blank">Tat'dGreaser: Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?


Yeah, because that would take deranged people go away.

Your suggestion is as idiotic as demanding that people shut down telephone services because someone used a telephone to warn about a shooting.
 
2012-12-12 08:51:47 AM
media.tumblr.com

But seriously, even if this anon knew about the shooting, there's no way any sensible person could expect someone to interpret this as a real threat.
 
2012-12-12 08:53:27 AM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.
 
2012-12-12 08:54:53 AM
moocifer
I totally believe it! This is in no way photoshopped.

This can in no way be related to the idiotic ambiguous American way of writing dates as MM/DD/YY or YY/DD/MM.
 
2012-12-12 08:56:21 AM

The Voice of Doom: moocifer
I totally believe it! This is in no way photoshopped.

This can in no way be related to the idiotic ambiguous American way of writing dates as MM/DD/YY or YY/DD/MM.


Could not this matter be resolved through a link to 4chan?

Or would absolutely no one admit to clicking it?
 
2012-12-12 08:59:20 AM
The Voice of Doom
This can in no way be related to the idiotic ambiguous American way of writing dates as MM/DD/YY or YY/DD/MM.


Okay, apparently it isn't since whatever happened there seems to have happened in December.
 
2012-12-12 09:00:29 AM

OtherLittleGuy: Tat'dGreaser: Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?

No, we have to fire 4chan and ban pictures from teh internets. Because, like, children.


you guys are both small time. the real problem is books. we must eliminate them immediately or whack jobs like tom clancy will continue to give these misguided people bad ideas. personally, i blame him for every mall shooting since 2003 teeth of the tiger

/i've got my salamander outfit all ready to go, just let me know when
 
2012-12-12 09:00:39 AM

Dimensio: Could not this matter be resolved through a link to 4chan?

Or would absolutely no one admit to clicking it?


That thread is long gone by ow.
 
2012-12-12 09:00:44 AM
So what?
 
2012-12-12 09:01:23 AM
Damn it. *now*
 
2012-12-12 09:03:05 AM
Dimensio
Could not this matter be resolved through a link to 4chan?

Or would absolutely no one admit to clicking it?


I just went there and the first discussion I happened to be clicking on had posts from 12/12/12, which, while not ambiguous, wasn't exactly helpful in figuring out 4chan's date format.

So I googled for the shooting to find out if it happened only a few days ago or in November.
 
2012-12-12 09:04:14 AM

abhorrent1: Dimensio: Could not this matter be resolved through a link to 4chan?

Or would absolutely no one admit to clicking it?

That thread is long gone by ow.


yeah, it is like a river of shiat, step in it once, and you can never step back into the same festering place twice. i know they say that once something goes on the internet, it is there forever, but hopefully some of the things on 4chan really do disappear. god help google if the are trying to save it all...
 
2012-12-12 09:04:27 AM
RELIGION OF PEACE


the reason the body count wasn't higher was that he was using a .22 rifle
 
2012-12-12 09:06:35 AM
Two victims and the shooter dead? I could have done better with my .357. This guy was certainly unworthy of an "assault rifle".

/12-21-2012. Watch the news. Totalfark./
 
2012-12-12 09:06:58 AM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


0/10. You need practice, padawan.
 
2012-12-12 09:07:13 AM

Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.


It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom
 
2012-12-12 09:07:33 AM
Blah blah speculation blah blah outrage blah blah gun control.

I think that about covers it at this point.
 
2012-12-12 09:11:04 AM
I was also told that Milhouse was a meme. So clearly that is true as well.
 
2012-12-12 09:14:39 AM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom


Individuals adjudicated as mentally defective are legally prohibited from possessing firearms. The AR-15 fires one of the lowest-powered centerfire rifle cartridges commonly available; as centerfire rifles go, it is a "pea shooter".

Perhaps posting to /b/ should be considered admissable demonstration of mental instability.
 
2012-12-12 09:14:45 AM

Farce-Side: Blah blah speculation blah blah outrage blah blah gun control.

I think that about covers it at this point.


Sure, until it happens again. And again. And again. I think the problem will sort itself out once we make sure every citizen of child-bearing age has a personal side-arm.
 
2012-12-12 09:15:26 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-12-12 09:15:59 AM

enochianwolf: Farce-Side: Blah blah speculation blah blah outrage blah blah gun control.

I think that about covers it at this point.

Sure, until it happens again. And again. And again. I think the problem will sort itself out once we make sure every citizen of child-bearing age has a personal side-arm.


I would recommend, as an alternative, improving mental health care in the United States of America, so that mentally unstable individuals may be better identified and treated before they engage in any violent action.
 
2012-12-12 09:17:21 AM
Really fark?? Were linking to screencaps of 4chan threads as news now???

/keep farking that chicken...
 
2012-12-12 09:18:58 AM

Farce-Side: Blah blah speculation blah blah outrage blah blah gun control.

I think that about covers it at this point.


No, it doesn't. Because the fact is that if everyone carried a gun this guy likely would have only been able to kill one person rather than two, and may not have even gotten to do that. Guns can save lives as well as do away with them. People forget that.
 
2012-12-12 09:19:39 AM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom


The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.
 
2012-12-12 09:20:50 AM

Girion47: enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom

The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

Your priorities are whacko.


FTFM
 
hej
2012-12-12 09:23:02 AM
"Remember that guy who shot up the Clackamas Town Center on 12/11/12? "

No.
 
2012-12-12 09:28:44 AM

Dimensio: Individuals adjudicated as mentally defective are legally prohibited from possessing firearms.


That certainly stops the crazies.
 
2012-12-12 09:29:01 AM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom


What disgusts me is the obsession with makes and models media and anti-firearms advocates have. It's almost fetishistic, and it's the same type of obsession teenagers have with drugs: to them, guns are magical and not well understood.
 
2012-12-12 09:30:41 AM

Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.



I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat
 
2012-12-12 09:31:05 AM

utahraptor2: enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom

What disgusts me is the obsession with makes and models media and anti-firearms advocates have. It's almost fetishistic, and it's the same type of obsession teenagers have with drugs: to them, guns are magical and not well understood.


I would be skeptical of your assessment, except that I have seen a video of a civilian disarmament advocate explicitly claiming a .50 BMG caliber rifle (that is almost never used in crime) to fire "heat-seeking" ammunition when advocating prohibition of it.
 
2012-12-12 09:32:01 AM

enochianwolf: Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat


What "stricter" firearm regulation do you propose?
 
2012-12-12 09:32:10 AM
Is anyone else kind of disappointed when there's a highly reported shooting like this, and it turns out that only a couple people died?
 
2012-12-12 09:35:24 AM

doczoidberg: Is anyone else kind of disappointed when there's a highly reported shooting like this, and it turns out that only a couple people died?


Mr. Josh Sugarmann and Mr. Daniel Gross are likely very disappointed.
 
2012-12-12 09:35:54 AM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


All assault weapons are banned in the USA. Nice try troll.
 
2012-12-12 09:37:00 AM
 
2012-12-12 09:37:35 AM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


But unless we have the right to carry an AR-15 down the street, how are we going to protect ourselves from crazies with AR-15s?
 
2012-12-12 09:39:01 AM

Dimensio: What "stricter" firearm regulation do you propose?


No high-capacity magazines - this would have saved lives in Arizona during the Gifford's attack
No assault rifles - military use only
No full-auto anything
5 year mental health certification required for everyone owning a firearm

to name a few
 
2012-12-12 09:39:07 AM

Bullseyed: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

All assault weapons are banned in the USA. Nice try troll.


Your assessment of firearm regulation in the United States of America is as accurate as is your assessment of the authenticity of President Obama's birth certificate.
 
2012-12-12 09:40:32 AM

Bullseyed: All assault weapons are banned in the USA. Nice try troll.


How does my local pawn shop sell AK-47s?
 
2012-12-12 09:42:14 AM
Oregon: where Mass-Murders are slackers too.

media.theonion.com
 
2012-12-12 09:42:32 AM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: What "stricter" firearm regulation do you propose?

No high-capacity magazines - this would have saved lives in Arizona during the Gifford's attack


Please define "high-capacity magazine". Demonstrate that prohibiting civilian ownership of such magazines would have "saved lives". Please explain how the millions of such magazines already owned by civilians would be addressed.

No assault rifles - military use only


Assault rifles are already regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and further restricted by the Hughes Amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986; they are not readily available to civilians.


No full-auto anything


Fully automatic firearms are regulated by the same laws as are assault rifles (assault rifles are a subset of "full auto" rifles under the law).


5 year mental health certification required for everyone owning a firearm


Please explain how such certification would be conducted. Identify an objective standard that would be applied so that an anti-gun evaluator could not arbitrarily deny the right to keep and bear arms regardless of actual mental fitness. Explain how the government would cover costs for such certification.
 
2012-12-12 09:42:38 AM

Balchinian: Farce-Side: Blah blah speculation blah blah outrage blah blah gun control.

I think that about covers it at this point.

No, it doesn't. Because the fact is that if everyone carried a gun this guy likely would have only been able to kill one person rather than two, and may not have even gotten to do that. Guns can save lives as well as do away with them. People forget that.


People are more irrational than rational; people forget that.



/Feel confident about arguing with your wife/GF if she's packing?
 
2012-12-12 09:53:08 AM

Dimensio: enochianwolf: Dimensio: What "stricter" firearm regulation do you propose?

No high-capacity magazines - this would have saved lives in Arizona during the Gifford's attack

Please define "high-capacity magazine". Demonstrate that prohibiting civilian ownership of such magazines would have "saved lives". Please explain how the millions of such magazines already owned by civilians would be addressed.

Any magazine with a capacity higher than what is standard for the firearm intended. It was only during the reloading of one of Loughner's mags that he was able to be incapacitated, he would have gotten less shots off during his attack with a smaller mag. They would be considered illegal to own and by turning them in willfully you could forgo any ensuing fines imposed if you happen to be caught with them in the future.

No assault rifles - military use only

Assault rifles are already regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and further restricted by the Hughes Amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986; they are not readily available to civilians.

Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?


No full-auto anything

Fully automatic firearms are regulated by the same laws as are assault rifles (assault rifles are a subset of "full auto" rifles under the law).


5 year mental health certification required for everyone owning a firearm

Please explain how such certification would be conducted. Identify an objective standard that would be applied so that an anti-gun evaluator could not arbitrarily deny the right to keep and bear arms regardless of actual mental fitness. Explain how the government would cover costs for such certification.


If you have any violent crimes that deem you to be mentally unstable i.e. assault & battery in your record, you are disbarred from owning a deadly weapon. Sure, what I said isn't really feasible, so your 5 year certification is having a clean criminal record and no record of mental illness to speak of. Everyone else loses their right to own a deadly weapon.
 
2012-12-12 09:55:54 AM

Dimensio: Please define "high-capacity magazine". Demonstrate that prohibiting civilian ownership of such magazines would have "saved lives". Please explain how the millions of such magazines already owned by civilians would be addressed.


Therein lies the rub with heavy-duty gun control. Sure, we as a nation could unify and improve the standards for obtaining a CWP, but ultimately the only thing that would stop mass-shootings, gun suicides, and gang killings is not just a complete firearms ban but also a massive government seizure of property. Handgun bans in DC and Chicago have shown to be useless at stopping crime, because the law-abiding listen but the lawless just get their weapons from no-ban zones just across the river (or whatever defines the border of Chicago). You still have tons of weapons available, both legally and illegally to criminals.

1. No elimination of firearms from the civilian populace would ever be feasible without some reliable way of demonstrating to the populace that the criminals don't have them. So far no one has ever figured that out.

2. Who would fund this seizure of property? Even if by force (and damn that would be bloody) it would still cost a massive amount in mobilizing the LEOs and maybe National Guardsmen to raid every house in the country.

That's why we don't have much going on in the way of a national gun control discussion; the problems that we do have would require draconian solutions, as the already-exercised options (urban bans, the 1996 AWB) have proven ineffective.
 
2012-12-12 09:58:24 AM

enochianwolf: Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat


Go live in fear somewhere else.
 
2012-12-12 10:01:18 AM

jaybeezey: Go live in fear somewhere else.


Somewhere with less gun-violence and mass shootings, you mean.
 
2012-12-12 10:02:05 AM

Dimensio:
I would be skeptical of your assessment, except that I have seen a video of a civilian disarmament advocate explicitly claiming a .50 BMG caliber rifle (that is almost never used in crime) to fire "heat-seeking" ammunition when advocating prohibition of it.


I think that what it boils down to are complacent Americans who don't want to take responsibility for their own personal defense. They're terrified of having to stand up and protect themselves if necessary, and so they'd rather forfeit their liberty and its associated responsibility than show some character and take responsibility.

What I find interesting is how these individuals can advocate legalization of controlled substances because Government restriction doesn't work; and in the same breath call for Government restriction of firearms. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.
 
2012-12-12 10:02:33 AM

divgradcurl: OtherLittleGuy: Tat'dGreaser: Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?

No, we have to fire 4chan and ban pictures from teh internets. Because, like, children.

you guys are both small time. the real problem is books. we must eliminate them immediately or whack jobs like tom clancy will continue to give these misguided people bad ideas. personally, i blame him for every mall shooting since 2003 teeth of the tiger

/i've got my salamander outfit all ready to go, just let me know when


2003? Hah. Schwarzenegger was shooting up shopping malls back in 1985. Commando
 
2012-12-12 10:03:46 AM

enochianwolf: Any magazine with a capacity higher than what is standard for the firearm intended. It was only during the reloading of one of Loughner's mags that he was able to be incapacitated, he would have gotten less shots off during his attack with a smaller mag. They would be considered illegal to own and by turning them in willfully you could forgo any ensuing fines imposed if you happen to be caught with them in the future.


Mr. Loughner carried a spare magazine. He was subdued when his second magazine jammed. Extended magazines are often unreliable; had Mr. Loughner carried magazines of capacities standard for his handgun model, he may not have suffered such a malfunction.

Please explain how owners of such magazines would be compensated for the loss of their property.

Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?

Mr. James Holmes did not possess an assault rifle. Mr. Holmes was armed with a Remington 870 Express Tactical shotgun, a Smith & Wesson M&P15 semi-automatic rifle (which reportedly malfunctioned after firing fewer than 30 rounds, likely due to his use of an unreliable "large capacity" magazine) and a Glock 22 handgun (for which Mr. Holmes carried multiple spare magazines, several of which were found on the floor of the theater).

If you have any violent crimes that deem you to be mentally unstable i.e. assault & battery in your record, you are disbarred from owning a deadly weapon. Sure, what I said isn't really feasible, so your 5 year certification is having a clean criminal record and no record of mental illness to speak of. Everyone else loses their right to own a deadly weapon.

Any felony conviction of any adjudication of mental defectiveness already automatically legally prohibits firearm ownership. What you advocate is already law, and is implemented more effectively than what you recommend.
 
2012-12-12 10:06:24 AM

enochianwolf: Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?


AR-15s are not assault rifles. They are semi-auto fire ONLY. The plastic stock and the scary M-16-like visual profile do not make it an assault rifle.
 
2012-12-12 10:10:55 AM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


How you think your trolling.

dl.dropbox.com

How you're actually trolling.

dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-12-12 10:12:59 AM

generallyso: enochianwolf: Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?

AR-15s are not assault rifles. They are semi-auto fire ONLY. The plastic stock and the scary M-16-like visual profile do not make it an assault rifle.


Some additional perspective may be helpful:

Total murders in 2011: 12,664
Total murders in 2011 committed with use of any firearm: 8,583
Total murders in 2011 committed with use of any model of rifle (of which AR-15 rifles are a smaller subset): 323

Total murders in 2011 committed with use of knives or other cutting objects: 1,694

Total murders in 2011 committed with use of unarmed attacks (hands, fists, feet; classified by the Federal Bureau of Investigations as "personal weapons"): 728

Percentage of murders committed with use of knives or other cutting objects: 13.38%
Percentage of murders committed without use of any external weapon: 5.75%
Percentage of murders committed with use of any rifle: 2.55%

Clearly, the solution to violent crime in the United States is a prohibition upon a subset of popular civilian sporting rifles based upon cosmetic characteristics.
 
2012-12-12 10:16:09 AM
It always seems like the people that call for more gun control have the least amount of firearm knowledge. That's why things like the assault weopons ban seem so stupid to people who know about guns. The assualt weopons ban was written by politicians who are clueless about the very thing they are trying to regulate.

I also like how the gun control advocates propose no solution to the very real problem of how they are going to confiscate all of the newly "outlawed" guns and accessories that are currently held by individuals. I guess if you don't have a problem violating the constitution in the first place you don't have to stretch to far to advocate armed government troops going house to house.
 
2012-12-12 10:18:50 AM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: /Feel confident about arguing with your wife/GF if she's packing?


Women with guns thread?

/inappropriate, I know
//sorry
///I'm not sorry!
 
2012-12-12 10:19:03 AM

Prank Monkey: It always seems like the people that call for more gun control have the least amount of firearm knowledge. That's why things like the assault weopons ban seem so stupid to people who know about guns. The assualt weopons ban was written by politicians who are clueless about the very thing they are trying to regulate.


Are you saying that you doubt Representative Carolyn McCarthy's expert understanding of barrel shrouds?
 
2012-12-12 10:22:44 AM

Dimensio: Prank Monkey: It always seems like the people that call for more gun control have the least amount of firearm knowledge. That's why things like the assault weopons ban seem so stupid to people who know about guns. The assualt weopons ban was written by politicians who are clueless about the very thing they are trying to regulate.

Are you saying that you doubt Representative Carolyn McCarthy's expert understanding of barrel shrouds?


That's like the extra skin that goes over the tip right?
 
2012-12-12 10:24:43 AM

utahraptor2: I think that what it boils down to are complacent Americans who don't want to take responsibility for their own personal defense. They're terrified of having to stand up and protect themselves if necessary, and so they'd rather forfeit their liberty and its associated responsibility than show some character and take responsibility.

What I find interesting is how these individuals can advocate legalization of controlled substances because Government restriction doesn't work; and in the same breath call for Government restriction of firearms. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.


You realize that in the confusion of a public shooting, if every person had a gun, it could become easy for someone, including the police, to lose track of who the real shooter is, thereby possibly increasing the tragedy of such an event. Sure, it could also end the shooting really quickly and possibly prevent the tragedy, but the variable you're increasing is the amount of deadly weapons in a given area. Having a shootout isn't *necessarily* as safe for everyone around as fleeing and hiding, but this obviously depends on the environment and people density of a given area. I don't necessarily feel like your average person should worry about having to defend themselves against gunfire, sure it can happen to anyone and does happen, but I'll say that we seem to have this happen more than some other places.

As for drugs, keep the deadly stuff like heroine away from people but let the harmless, cannabis, get taxed. Because hey, free money and the cartels aren't getting paid. Not sure how it's cognitive dissonance to see weed as being ok enough not to throw thousands of people in jail each year for it, and firearms as dangerous enough to be highly regulated.
 
2012-12-12 10:30:02 AM

enochianwolf: Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat


Mcdonalds kills more people per year than any mass shooter can claim credit for.
 
2012-12-12 10:30:27 AM

enochianwolf: As for drugs, keep the deadly stuff like heroine away from people but let the harmless, cannabis, get taxed.


On what basis do you object to the presence of Wonder Woman, Power Girl and Black Canary?
 
2012-12-12 10:31:15 AM

enochianwolf: utahraptor2: I think that what it boils down to are complacent Americans who don't want to take responsibility for their own personal defense. They're terrified of having to stand up and protect themselves if necessary, and so they'd rather forfeit their liberty and its associated responsibility than show some character and take responsibility.

What I find interesting is how these individuals can advocate legalization of controlled substances because Government restriction doesn't work; and in the same breath call for Government restriction of firearms. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.

You realize that in the confusion of a public shooting, if every person had a gun, it could become easy for someone, including the police, to lose track of who the real shooter is, thereby possibly increasing the tragedy of such an event. Sure, it could also end the shooting really quickly and possibly prevent the tragedy, but the variable you're increasing is the amount of deadly weapons in a given area. Having a shootout isn't *necessarily* as safe for everyone around as fleeing and hiding, but this obviously depends on the environment and people density of a given area. I don't necessarily feel like your average person should worry about having to defend themselves against gunfire, sure it can happen to anyone and does happen, but I'll say that we seem to have this happen more than some other places.

As for drugs, keep the deadly stuff like heroine away from people but let the harmless, cannabis, get taxed. Because hey, free money and the cartels aren't getting paid. Not sure how it's cognitive dissonance to see weed as being ok enough not to throw thousands of people in jail each year for it, and firearms as dangerous enough to be highly regulated.


I agree with you about the weed. That being said, I can't think of one instance where what you are saying has happened. Link?
 
2012-12-12 10:31:44 AM
bin.smwcentral.net
 
2012-12-12 10:32:45 AM

way south: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

How you think your trolling.

[dl.dropbox.com image 580x480]

How you're actually trolling.

[dl.dropbox.com image 550x659]


What I'm really doing:

www.nndb.com
 
2012-12-12 10:34:58 AM

Prank Monkey: It always seems like the people that call for more gun control have the least amount of firearm knowledge. That's why things like the assault weopons ban seem so stupid to people who know about guns. The assualt weopons ban was written by politicians who are clueless about the very thing they are trying to regulate.


I had a debate with a friend on this point yesterday; he being already a strict gun-control advocate is thrilled by Bob Costas' speaking out on the matter. Specifically he is frustrated that despite the consistently large number of firearm deaths (especially suicides) and crime facilitated by firearm availability, only Costas has used a large public stage to speak out on it.

I countered that Costas' factual errors and ignorance on the matter make him a bad point-man for the issue. He may do a good job speaking to the converted, but isn't going to sway anyone that can't get past his unfamiliarity with the issue. I compared it to Todd Akin's campaigning on a pro-life platform while using nonsense biology arguments to counter the pro-choice position.
 
2012-12-12 10:37:51 AM

enochianwolf: way south: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

How you think your trolling.

[dl.dropbox.com image 580x480]

How you're actually trolling.

[dl.dropbox.com image 550x659]

What I'm really doing:

[www.nndb.com image 230x300]


I am undecided as to whether to present Mr. Gandhi's quote condemning the British empire for disarming the Indian populace or to make reference to Mr. Gandhi's obsession with enemas.
 
2012-12-12 10:39:33 AM

Dimensio: enochianwolf: As for drugs, keep the deadly stuff like heroine away from people but let the harmless, cannabis, get taxed.

On what basis do you object to the presence of Wonder Woman, Power Girl and Black Canary?


They've been making teenage boys "chase the dragon" for decades, it must stop!
 
2012-12-12 10:42:06 AM

factoryconnection: Prank Monkey: It always seems like the people that call for more gun control have the least amount of firearm knowledge. That's why things like the assault weopons ban seem so stupid to people who know about guns. The assualt weopons ban was written by politicians who are clueless about the very thing they are trying to regulate.

I had a debate with a friend on this point yesterday; he being already a strict gun-control advocate is thrilled by Bob Costas' speaking out on the matter. Specifically he is frustrated that despite the consistently large number of firearm deaths (especially suicides) and crime facilitated by firearm availability, only Costas has used a large public stage to speak out on it.

I countered that Costas' factual errors and ignorance on the matter make him a bad point-man for the issue. He may do a good job speaking to the converted, but isn't going to sway anyone that can't get past his unfamiliarity with the issue. I compared it to Todd Akin's campaigning on a pro-life platform while using nonsense biology arguments to counter the pro-choice position.


Were you met with an intelligent response or the usual talking points and namecalling? Don't worry about responding, I already know.
 
2012-12-12 10:42:45 AM
I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags.

Oh my god look at these horseless carriages and buildings that touch the sky! I seriously need to get some of those dentures to replace this whale bone shiat. Where do y'all keep your slaves? Oh, and avoid entangling alliances, it'll lead to shiat like ww1.
 
2012-12-12 10:45:06 AM

Dimensio: I am undecided as to whether to present Mr. Gandhi's quote condemning the British empire for disarming the Indian populace or to make reference to Mr. Gandhi's obsession with enemas.


"We may never be strong enough to be entirely nonviolent in thought, word and deed. But we must keep nonviolence as our goal and make strong progress towards it."
 
2012-12-12 10:45:34 AM

Dimensio: enochianwolf: way south: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

How you think your trolling.

[dl.dropbox.com image 580x480]

How you're actually trolling.

[dl.dropbox.com image 550x659]

What I'm really doing:

[www.nndb.com image 230x300]

I am undecided as to whether to present Mr. Gandhi's quote condemning the British empire for disarming the Indian populace or to make reference to Mr. Gandhi's obsession with enemas.


Or his endorsement of Hitler.
 
2012-12-12 10:47:29 AM

Girion47: enochianwolf: Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat

Mcdonalds kills more people per year than any mass shooter can claim credit for.


As far as I've seen, no one kills SOMEONE ELSE with McDonald's. That's self inflicted.
 
2012-12-12 10:47:46 AM

evilmousse: I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags.

Oh my god look at these horseless carriages and buildings that touch the sky! I seriously need to get some of those dentures to replace this whale bone shiat. Where do y'all keep your slaves? Oh, and avoid entangling alliances, it'll lead to shiat like ww1.


...I was speaking figuratively.. the point is the 2nd amendment was created during a time in which weapons were much less lethal, and the ability to have mass-shootings from a single individual wasn't really possible.
 
2012-12-12 10:47:46 AM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: I am undecided as to whether to present Mr. Gandhi's quote condemning the British empire for disarming the Indian populace or to make reference to Mr. Gandhi's obsession with enemas.

"We may never be strong enough to be entirely nonviolent in thought, word and deed. But we must keep nonviolence as our goal and make strong progress towards it."


I will recall that philosophy should I ever be subjected to unwanted British rule and forcibly deprived of firearms. However, I do not understand how that relates to the current discussion.
 
2012-12-12 10:52:16 AM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Balchinian: Farce-Side: Blah blah speculation blah blah outrage blah blah gun control.

People are more irrational than rational; people forget that.

/Feel confident about arguing with your wife/GF if she's packing?


D1vwife has been carrying a S&W .357 for longer than we have been married. (11 years). And not all of those years have been wine and roses.

/but then, my wife isn't a psycho.
//well, no more than other women...
 
2012-12-12 10:53:32 AM

Dimensio: I will recall that philosophy should I ever be subjected to unwanted British rule and forcibly deprived of firearms. However, I do not understand how that relates to the current discussion.


From my perspective, this is a discussion about ways to limit the recurring problem of public shootings from happening in a nation full of gun ownership... it's appropriate with regards to the quote I think.
 
2012-12-12 10:56:45 AM

QueenMamaBee: Girion47: enochianwolf: Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat

Mcdonalds kills more people per year than any mass shooter can claim credit for.

As far as I've seen, no one kills SOMEONE ELSE with McDonald's. That's self inflicted.


You don't think the marketing is to blame at all?

Either way, death from gun violence is ridiculously low to other causes of death and people just don't care about them.
 
2012-12-12 10:56:57 AM

enochianwolf: evilmousse: I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags.

Oh my god look at these horseless carriages and buildings that touch the sky! I seriously need to get some of those dentures to replace this whale bone shiat. Where do y'all keep your slaves? Oh, and avoid entangling alliances, it'll lead to shiat like ww1.

...I was speaking figuratively.. the point is the 2nd amendment was created during a time in which weapons were much less lethal, and the ability to have mass-shootings from a single individual wasn't really possible.


There's a solution to this. Arm yourself, and kill someone if they're trying to kill you or others. Or be a victim. It's your choice. But firearms are here, and they're not going away.
 
2012-12-12 10:59:44 AM

generallyso: enochianwolf: Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?

AR-15s are not assault rifles. They are semi-auto fire ONLY. The plastic stock and the scary M-16-like visual profile do not make it an assault rifle.


Let me see if I can use an analogy to describe the disconnect:

Someone who has an otherwise stock automobile, but with a 'race car' body kit, runs over someone. The car-control folks respond by saying "Ban all race cars".

But, say the car guys, race cars are already banned. You can't drive them on public roads, you have to have special liscences to be a race car driver.

But, say the car-control guys, this guy was able to buy a race car without a liscence. He was just able to walk in off the street and put a body kit on his car.

But, say the car guys, that's just a body kit. A race car is a very specific term that describes the capabilities of the car, not the way it looks. A race car has twin turbochargers, a roll-cage, a fire-extinguisher, four-point race harness, etc. etc. etc. That guy had a car that looked like a race car, but had the exact same capabilities as a mini-van

But, say the car-control guys, this guy has a car that looks exactly like a race car, so we should ban race cars

STFU, say the car guys, you don't know WTF you're talking about.


/you CAN'T just buy an assault rifle, but you can just buy something that looks like an assault rifle that is likely less deadly than most hunting rifles
//car-control is being able to hit your apex!
 
2012-12-12 11:00:53 AM

Prank Monkey: Were you met with an intelligent response or the usual talking points and namecalling? Don't worry about responding, I already know.


It was a civil discussion, though passionate. We are grown-ups and friends, after all. I had to use a fox news link to summarize the factual and logical errors in Costas' addresses on the matter, which made me feel dirty.

Approaching a discussion without the assumption that your counterpart is a fool and evil really helps make for more convincing debate. So, pretty much the opposite of everything on the internet in general, but Facebook having named players (vice anonymous) does help.
 
2012-12-12 11:02:23 AM

enochianwolf: evilmousse: I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags.

Oh my god look at these horseless carriages and buildings that touch the sky! I seriously need to get some of those dentures to replace this whale bone shiat. Where do y'all keep your slaves? Oh, and avoid entangling alliances, it'll lead to shiat like ww1.

...I was speaking figuratively.. the point is the 2nd amendment was created during a time in which weapons were much less lethal, and the ability to have mass-shootings from a single individual wasn't really possible.


And I was pointing out in a round-about way that george's perspective would be so thrown by the modern world that I doubt he'd immediately set to applying judgements he well knows are suited to a different environment. What you call child he may call two years older than the age of conscription. Who knows, maybe he'd think something similar to colt making men equal. He'd certainly recognize the impossibility of the british subduing a populace so armed from accross the sea.
 
2012-12-12 11:02:37 AM

GRCooper: generallyso: enochianwolf: Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?

AR-15s are not assault rifles. They are semi-auto fire ONLY. The plastic stock and the scary M-16-like visual profile do not make it an assault rifle.

Let me see if I can use an analogy to describe the disconnect:

Someone who has an otherwise stock automobile, but with a 'race car' body kit, runs over someone. The car-control folks respond by saying "Ban all race cars".

But, say the car guys, race cars are already banned. You can't drive them on public roads, you have to have special liscences to be a race car driver.

But, say the car-control guys, this guy was able to buy a race car without a liscence. He was just able to walk in off the street and put a body kit on his car.

But, say the car guys, that's just a body kit. A race car is a very specific term that describes the capabilities of the car, not the way it looks. A race car has twin turbochargers, a roll-cage, a fire-extinguisher, four-point race harness, etc. etc. etc. That guy had a car that looked like a race car, but had the exact same capabilities as a mini-van

But, say the car-control guys, this guy has a car that looks exactly like a race car, so we should ban race cars

STFU, say the car guys, you don't know WTF you're talking about.


/you CAN'T just buy an assault rifle, but you can just buy something that looks like an assault rifle that is likely less deadly than most hunting rifles
//car-control is being able to hit your apex!


Can we ban body kits, fake hood scoops, the stick on buick engine vents?

/Tired of seeing beemers and civics with glued on scoops trying to rev at me.
 
2012-12-12 11:05:23 AM

Dimensio: ...or to make reference to Mr. Gandhi's obsession with enemas.


Dimensio: However, I do not understand how that relates to the current discussion.


You're Clacka me up.
 
2012-12-12 11:05:36 AM

GRCooper: /you CAN'T just buy an assault rifle, but you can just buy something that looks like an assault rifle that is likely less deadly than most hunting rifles


And the AR-15 is chambered in a centerfire .22 cartridge. It's renowned for its accuracy, not its lethality. It's a varmint control caliber, FFS. That pistol grip or matte black finish doesn't do anything to make it any more or less dangerous.
 
2012-12-12 11:05:39 AM
I keep seeing a disconnect here between those saying 'assault rifles' are banned, and those that say they aren't.
Let me explain this to both camps;

People who understand guns know that in truth, 'Assault Rifles' must be, by the very definition of the term, fully automatic - among other traits - and not available to civilians under pretty much any circumstances.

People who fear guns use the term 'Assault Rifle' in a way that means 'anything that looks scary, regardless of function or purpose'. These are not actually assault rifles they are speaking of, but the term sounds scary enough they get addicted to saying it. I have seen .22 squirrel rifles referred to as 'assault rifles' because they had a black synthetic stock instead of a classic wood one. I have seen a speaker that used so broadly as to to mean 'any firearm with a magazine' (so anything other than a revolver I guess?)

/BTW, manufacture and sale of fully automatic weapons to civilians -was- actually legal up until 1986, and those weapons owned before that are still legal to own privately. There are tens of thousands of them out there currently.
//Guess the number of crimes committed with them since 1939 when records started being kept?
///Hint, its larger than one and smaller than three.
 
2012-12-12 11:06:00 AM

GRCooper: generallyso: enochianwolf: Aurora shooter purchased his assault rifle legally, correct?

AR-15s are not assault rifles. They are semi-auto fire ONLY. The plastic stock and the scary M-16-like visual profile do not make it an assault rifle.

Let me see if I can use an analogy to describe the disconnect:

Someone who has an otherwise stock automobile, but with a 'race car' body kit, runs over someone. The car-control folks respond by saying "Ban all race cars".

But, say the car guys, race cars are already banned. You can't drive them on public roads, you have to have special liscences to be a race car driver.

But, say the car-control guys, this guy was able to buy a race car without a liscence. He was just able to walk in off the street and put a body kit on his car.

But, say the car guys, that's just a body kit. A race car is a very specific term that describes the capabilities of the car, not the way it looks. A race car has twin turbochargers, a roll-cage, a fire-extinguisher, four-point race harness, etc. etc. etc. That guy had a car that looked like a race car, but had the exact same capabilities as a mini-van

But, say the car-control guys, this guy has a car that looks exactly like a race car, so we should ban race cars

STFU, say the car guys, you don't know WTF you're talking about.


/you CAN'T just buy an assault rifle, but you can just buy something that looks like an assault rifle that is likely less deadly than most hunting rifles
//car-control is being able to hit your apex!


In fact, vehicle regulation advocates have already proposed an intelligent solution to the problem of race cars in public.
 
2012-12-12 11:09:05 AM

Girion47: Can we ban body kits, fake hood scoops, the stick on buick engine vents?


Yes, yes, yes! Last week saw a guy driving a new (still had dealers tags) Shelby GT500. He had put those atrocious fake vents on the side. I died a little bit that day (a little bit more that normal).
 
2012-12-12 11:09:15 AM
Somebody still upset that his queen, Boxxy, was deposed?
 
2012-12-12 11:10:48 AM

NightOwl2255: Girion47: Can we ban body kits, fake hood scoops, the stick on buick engine vents?

Yes, yes, yes! Last week saw a guy driving a new (still had dealers tags) Shelby GT500. He had put those atrocious fake vents on the side. I died a little bit that day (a little bit more that normal).


I've been behind cars where they position the arrow shaped vents around their trunk emblem to form a diamond.
 
2012-12-12 11:12:35 AM

CliChe Guevara: People who fear guns use the term 'Assault Rifle' in a way that means 'anything that looks scary, regardless of function or purpose'. These are not actually assault rifles they are speaking of, but the term sounds scary enough they get addicted to saying it. I have seen .22 squirrel rifles referred to as 'assault rifles' because they had a black synthetic stock instead of a classic wood one. I have seen a speaker that used so broadly as to to mean 'any firearm with a magazine' (so anything other than a revolver I guess?)


There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to own 'assault rifles', anyway. It's like we as citizens are considered too untrustworthy to be allowed the right.

I for one think we should make sports cars illegal. You might speed and cause accidents on the roads, so we should do everything we can to prevent those tragedies.
 
2012-12-12 11:14:51 AM

NightOwl2255: Girion47: Can we ban body kits, fake hood scoops, the stick on buick engine vents?

Yes, yes, yes! Last week saw a guy driving a new (still had dealers tags) Shelby GT500. He had put those atrocious fake vents on the side. I died a little bit that day (a little bit more that normal).


Would I be permitted to retain the "Si" brand and the "VTEC" decals on my Honda Civic?
 
2012-12-12 11:18:40 AM

Dimensio: NightOwl2255: Girion47: Can we ban body kits, fake hood scoops, the stick on buick engine vents?

Yes, yes, yes! Last week saw a guy driving a new (still had dealers tags) Shelby GT500. He had put those atrocious fake vents on the side. I died a little bit that day (a little bit more that normal).

Would I be permitted to retain the "Si" brand and the "VTEC" decals on my Honda Civic?


Sure as long as it isn't really a DX.

/or pretend you can beat me off the line.
 
2012-12-12 11:19:42 AM

Girion47: Dimensio: NightOwl2255: Girion47: Can we ban body kits, fake hood scoops, the stick on buick engine vents?

Yes, yes, yes! Last week saw a guy driving a new (still had dealers tags) Shelby GT500. He had put those atrocious fake vents on the side. I died a little bit that day (a little bit more that normal).

Would I be permitted to retain the "Si" brand and the "VTEC" decals on my Honda Civic?

Sure as long as it isn't really a DX.

/or pretend you can beat me off the line.


I did not wait an entire month to purchase a Honda Civic DX.

/I am pathetic.
 
2012-12-12 11:21:32 AM

Dimensio: Would I be permitted to retain the "Si" brand and the "VTEC" decals on my Honda Civic?


Of course you can. Unlike the fake vents, that do nothing for performance, the VTEC badge makes the Civic go much faster.
 
2012-12-12 11:21:33 AM

utahraptor2: There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to own 'assault rifles', anyway. It's like we as citizens are considered too untrustworthy to be allowed the right.

I for one think we should make sports cars illegal. You might speed and cause accidents on the roads, so we should do everything we can to prevent those tragedies.



Comparisons between guns and vehicles aren't that easy to make. Yeah, both can be used as a deadly weapon, but you can't fit one into a packed building very easily. You may be a responsible gun owner and if that's the case, I wouldn't mind if you owned 500 guns, or how deadly they were, my problem is making them so readily available, and so lethal, that some fall into the hands of time bombs. This is a preventable thing and we can do things to prevent it besides waiting for the shooting to start.
 
2012-12-12 11:21:50 AM

enochianwolf: Girion47: The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


I'm not worried about the pleasant fat couple from down the street clogging their arteries with salt and fat in the mall food court, I'm worried about them getting their heads blown off by another psycho with a weapon trying to become famous.

Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally, yet was considered mentally unbalanced by his psychiatrist, just not diagnosed. I'll agree with Dimensio's point about providing better mental healthcare in this country as a good alternative to stricter gun control, but I believe we need a good measure of both. For example, anyone with an (R) next to their name in office is a guaranteed rubber stamp for looser gun regulations and less federal support for mental healthcare

/so vote democrat


1. He didn't have body armor. He had a "tactical" vest on.
2. There are laws in place preventing people with reported mental illness that should prevent them from getting a firearm. Seeing as he wasn't reported as such, that is not a failure of the gun laws.
 
2012-12-12 11:23:11 AM

Girion47: enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom

The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.


Well, here's the thing from my perspective - you get at least a measure of control in most heart disease cases. You get time to wrap things up, maybe say some good-byes (dying still sucks, and yes, it sometimes happens out of the blue, but still, even in those cases, the corner says, 'heart disease, and at least it makes sense).

When a twit with a gun shots you in a mall, a school, a theatre, as collateral damage in a drive by, a mosque in Wisconsin, or the myriad other ways of being murdered by a gun as a regular, average joe, joan, or child, you have no control at all. And it never makes sense, ever.

So yeah, I'd say you need some gun control. I'd go further to say that a mall goers right to the pursuit of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" trumps the right to bear an assault or large magazine weapon.

It's about time that someone balanced the aspects of the constitution against each other, and stopped trying to pander to those who want to hold the 2nd amendment as more sancrosact than the rest of it.

It also amuses me greatly that the 2nd amendment is the one that proponents are willing to broaden the scope of to include weaponry that no one in 1776 could have forseen, but are stone cold against broadening 'all men are created equal' to actually make everyone equal. Kinda like the people who quote Leviticus as a reason to condem the gheys, but still eat shellfish. Weird.
 
2012-12-12 11:24:54 AM

RidgeRunner5: 1. He didn't have body armor. He had a "tactical" vest on.
2. There are laws in place preventing people with reported mental illness that should prevent them from getting a firearm. Seeing as he wasn't reported as such, that is not a failure of the gun laws.



Yep, I was proven wrong upthread. Doesn't necessarily mean current laws are sufficient, or current standards of mental health awareness.
 
2012-12-12 11:27:01 AM

llachlan: It also amuses me greatly that the 2nd amendment is the one that proponents are willing to broaden the scope of to include weaponry that no one in 1776 could have forseen, but are stone cold against broadening 'all men are created equal' to actually make everyone equal. Kinda like the people who quote Leviticus as a reason to condem the gheys, but still eat shellfish. Weird.


Upon what occasion have I expressed "stone cold" opposition to expanding equality? In which posting did I quote Leviticus as justification for condemnation of homosexuals? Was it in one of the numerous postings in which I explicitly advocated legal recognition of same-sex marriage?
 
2012-12-12 11:30:37 AM

utahraptor2: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

0/10. You need practice, padawan.


Agreed, has to be a troll.

I mean come on...teenagers walking around with AR-15s? Its that kind of comment that completely invalidates any attempt to make a logical argument.

Then theres the fact that the AR-15 is a civilian gun based on and styled after the military M-16 and M4. The AR being semi-auto only, the M series being full auto.
 
2012-12-12 11:31:41 AM

MaliFinn: divgradcurl: OtherLittleGuy: Tat'dGreaser: Cool, so can we shut down 4chan now?

No, we have to fire 4chan and ban pictures from teh internets. Because, like, children.

you guys are both small time. the real problem is books. we must eliminate them immediately or whack jobs like tom clancy will continue to give these misguided people bad ideas. personally, i blame him for every mall shooting since 2003 teeth of the tiger

/i've got my salamander outfit all ready to go, just let me know when

2003? Hah. Schwarzenegger was shooting up shopping malls back in 1985. Commando


hmm. i'll have to check that out. thanks for the heads-up.
 
2012-12-12 11:35:23 AM

enochianwolf: utahraptor2: There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to own 'assault rifles', anyway. It's like we as citizens are considered too untrustworthy to be allowed the right.

I for one think we should make sports cars illegal. You might speed and cause accidents on the roads, so we should do everything we can to prevent those tragedies.


Comparisons between guns and vehicles aren't that easy to make. Yeah, both can be used as a deadly weapon, but you can't fit one into a packed building very easily. You may be a responsible gun owner and if that's the case, I wouldn't mind if you owned 500 guns, or how deadly they were, my problem is making them so readily available, and so lethal, that some fall into the hands of time bombs. This is a preventable thing and we can do things to prevent it besides waiting for the shooting to start.


I own quite a few firearms. Big ones, small ones, antiques and modern "assault weapons". Everyone of them are equally deadly in the right hands, but not one of them is half as dangerous in my hands as a cell phone is in the hands of a soccer mom driving a mini van.

People kill people. It's been happening since the advent of the human race. The only reasonable thing that can be done to prevent it is to be equipped and prepared to defend yourself in the extremely unlikely event that someone tries to kill or harm you.

Restricting firearms does two things: it makes firearms ownership classist and only available to wealthy people, and it makes firearms theft and sales even more lucrative for organized crime than it already is.
 
2012-12-12 11:35:30 AM

llachlan: Girion47: enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom

The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.

Well, here's the thing from my perspective - you get at least a measure of control in most heart disease cases. You get time to wrap things up, maybe say some good-byes (dying still sucks, and yes, it sometimes happens out of the blue, but still, even in those cases, the corner says, 'heart disease, and at least it makes sense).

When a twit with a gun shots you in a mall, a school, a theatre, as collateral damage in a drive by, ...


That's some nice false equivalency you have going on. So because I think gun control is absurd because it focuses on a small amount of deaths I'm against equality all of a sudden?
 
2012-12-12 11:39:41 AM

enochianwolf: Comparisons between guns and vehicles aren't that easy to make. Yeah, both can be used as a deadly weapon, but you can't fit one into a packed building very easily.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-12 11:40:13 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com

A GIS for "gun nuts" is much more entertaining than arguing in one of these threads.
 
2012-12-12 11:42:50 AM

Elegy: enochianwolf: Comparisons between guns and vehicles aren't that easy to make. Yeah, both can be used as a deadly weapon, but you can't fit one into a packed building very easily.

[i.imgur.com image 480x360]


It looked difficult
 
2012-12-12 11:45:15 AM

enochianwolf: Holmes, the Aurora shooter, purchased his assault rifle and body armor legally


1) he didn't have an 'assault rifle'
2) he didn't have body armor
and just to note,
3) most of the damage was done by a normal shotgun, from pellet scatter (hence why a very, VERY large number were listed as shot, yet many were treated and released quickly, even the same night)
4) the reason he gave up andd tried to flee, and did not standoff with the police as planned, nor kill more people, was that his so-called 'assault rifle' jammed from trying to use a high capacity snail magazine (which are notoriously unreliable), and combined with lack of training, he broke the weapon attempting to clear it.

So, just to be clear, the Aurora shooter was using a shotgun. Ironically, the only thing mitigating the damage he could do was the attempt to use a high capacity magazine in a rifle.
 
2012-12-12 11:47:27 AM

Sultan Of Herf: I mean come on...teenagers walking around with AR-15s? Its that kind of comment that completely invalidates any attempt to make a logical argument.


By "teens" I'm talking 18 year olds, and by bringing up the ghost of Washington it was shown not to be a serious comment, it's supposed to be figurative
 
2012-12-12 11:49:06 AM

enochianwolf: evilmousse: I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags.

Oh my god look at these horseless carriages and buildings that touch the sky! I seriously need to get some of those dentures to replace this whale bone shiat. Where do y'all keep your slaves? Oh, and avoid entangling alliances, it'll lead to shiat like ww1.

...I was speaking figuratively.. the point is the 2nd amendment was created during a time in which weapons were much less lethal, and the ability to have mass-shootings from a single individual wasn't really possible.


"Disarm those rabble rousers before they hurt somebody: shoot them if they resist."
 
2012-12-12 11:50:16 AM

CliChe Guevara: So, just to be clear, the Aurora shooter was using a shotgun. Ironically, the only thing mitigating the damage he could do was the attempt to use a high capacity magazine in a rifle.


Well it's good to know we were spared further loss of life, I guess!
 
2012-12-12 11:55:12 AM

The Voice of Doom: moocifer
I totally believe it! This is in no way photoshopped.

This can in no way be related to the idiotic ambiguous American way of writing dates as MM/DD/YY or YY/DD/MM.


The screencap does also specify "Monday".
 
2012-12-12 11:55:32 AM

Prank Monkey: enochianwolf: utahraptor2: I think that what it boils down to are complacent Americans who don't want to take responsibility for their own personal defense. They're terrified of having to stand up and protect themselves if necessary, and so they'd rather forfeit their liberty and its associated responsibility than show some character and take responsibility.

What I find interesting is how these individuals can advocate legalization of controlled substances because Government restriction doesn't work; and in the same breath call for Government restriction of firearms. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.

You realize that in the confusion of a public shooting, if every person had a gun, it could become easy for someone, including the police, to lose track of who the real shooter is, thereby possibly increasing the tragedy of such an event. Sure, it could also end the shooting really quickly and possibly prevent the tragedy, but the variable you're increasing is the amount of deadly weapons in a given area. Having a shootout isn't *necessarily* as safe for everyone around as fleeing and hiding, but this obviously depends on the environment and people density of a given area. I don't necessarily feel like your average person should worry about having to defend themselves against gunfire, sure it can happen to anyone and does happen, but I'll say that we seem to have this happen more than some other places.

As for drugs, keep the deadly stuff like heroine away from people but let the harmless, cannabis, get taxed. Because hey, free money and the cartels aren't getting paid. Not sure how it's cognitive dissonance to see weed as being ok enough not to throw thousands of people in jail each year for it, and firearms as dangerous enough to be highly regulated.

I agree with you about the weed. That being said, I can't think of one instance where what you are saying has happened. Link?


What actually tends to happen is that the homeowner, in possession of a legal firearm, is shot by the police when they come to raid the wrong house, and the homeowner is trying to protect his family from an unknown (to him) threat. Or the home owner shoots his own kid in the middle of the night. Rare, but it does happen, and far too often.

I'd be happy with a ban on large magazines, but honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out why the hell ya'all need to walk around armed. More of you walk around with conceal and carry firearms than Hamas.

And no offense, but given the general state of abrogating of personal responsibility for ones actions, and lack of impulse control I see around me, I'd be happier if guns at least had to stay in the home.
 
2012-12-12 11:56:28 AM

enochianwolf: CliChe Guevara: So, just to be clear, the Aurora shooter was using a shotgun. Ironically, the only thing mitigating the damage he could do was the attempt to use a high capacity magazine in a rifle.

Well it's good to know we were spared further loss of life, I guess!


Fortunately, gun control advocates are working to ensure that future rampages result in much greater death through prohibition of civilian ownership of unreliable firearm magazines.
 
2012-12-12 11:57:10 AM

enochianwolf: CliChe Guevara: So, just to be clear, the Aurora shooter was using a shotgun. Ironically, the only thing mitigating the damage he could do was the attempt to use a high capacity magazine in a rifle.

Well it's good to know we were spared further loss of life, I guess!


I suspect he turned the gun on himself when the reality of what he was doing hit him.

There's more people alive now than there's ever been, and greater gun ownership than ever, but violence has been on the decrease for over a decade now.
 
2012-12-12 11:58:53 AM

llachlan: What actually tends to happen is that the homeowner, in possession of a legal firearm, is shot by the police when they come to raid the wrong house, and the homeowner is trying to protect his family from an unknown (to him) threat. Or the home owner shoots his own kid in the middle of the night. Rare, but it does happen, and far too often.



Are you aware of what the words "rare" and "often" mean?
 
2012-12-12 12:00:59 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: As for drugs, keep the deadly stuff like heroine away from people but let the harmless, cannabis, get taxed.

On what basis do you object to the presence of Wonder Woman, Power Girl and Black Canary?

They've been making teenage boys "chase beat the dragon" for decades, it must stop!

 
2012-12-12 12:01:08 PM

enochianwolf: Elegy: enochianwolf: Comparisons between guns and vehicles aren't that easy to make. Yeah, both can be used as a deadly weapon, but you can't fit one into a packed building very easily.

[i.imgur.com image 480x360]

It looked difficult


Oh, I don't know. Stepping on a gas pedal seems no more more difficult than pulling a trigger to me.
 
2012-12-12 12:04:01 PM

llachlan: What actually tends to happen is that the homeowner, in possession of a legal firearm, is shot by the police when they come to raid the wrong house, and the homeowner is trying to protect his family from an unknown (to him) threat.


I eagerly await documentation of the frequency of such incidents.

Or the home owner shoots his own kid in the middle of the night. Rare, but it does happen, and far too often.

In 2010 (the last year for which data is available), 606 unintended deaths occurred as a result of firearms usage. As this accounts for all age ranges and all causes, the scenario that you describe is necessarily a smaller subset of those incidents. Clearly, this is "far too often".

I'd be happy with a ban on large magazines,

What is a "large magazine"? Is my twenty-round Saiga-12 drum a "large magazine"? It is physically larger than my 50-round AR-15 .22LR drum magazine.


but honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out why the hell ya'all need to walk around armed. More of you walk around with conceal and carry firearms than Hamas.

And no offense, but given the general state of abrogating of personal responsibility for ones actions, and lack of impulse control I see around me, I'd be happier if guns at least had to stay in the home.

Your concerns would be more reasonable if concealed weapon permit holders did not commit crime at a rate lower than that of the general adult population.
 
2012-12-12 12:07:58 PM

Dimensio: Fortunately, gun control advocates are working to ensure that future rampages result in much greater death through prohibition of civilian ownership of unreliable firearm magazines.


It's almost as if it's... better? for everyone to have extended mags. It's actually safer for the victims if the shooter has more bullets in the magazine, you just have to assume they won't work as they were designed.
 
2012-12-12 12:08:30 PM

Girion47


llachlan: What actually tends to happen is that the homeowner, in possession of a legal firearm, is shot by the police when they come to raid the wrong house, and the homeowner is trying to protect his family from an unknown (to him) threat. Or the home owner shoots his own kid in the middle of the night. Rare, but it does happen, and far too often.

Are you aware of what the words "rare" and "often" mean?


When the goal is "never", both "rare" and "too often" can be applicable.
 
2012-12-12 12:09:07 PM

Dimensio: llachlan: It also amuses me greatly that the 2nd amendment is the one that proponents are willing to broaden the scope of to include weaponry that no one in 1776 could have forseen, but are stone cold against broadening 'all men are created equal' to actually make everyone equal. Kinda like the people who quote Leviticus as a reason to condem the gheys, but still eat shellfish. Weird.

Upon what occasion have I expressed "stone cold" opposition to expanding equality? In which posting did I quote Leviticus as justification for condemnation of homosexuals? Was it in one of the numerous postings in which I explicitly advocated legal recognition of same-sex marriage?


Umm. dude, I used the terms: proponents, and people. Note I did not say, all proponents, every proponent, all people or every person. It is interesting to me though, that of all the things I said, you homed in on that. I apologize if you thought my deliberately using language to avoid tarring all birds rather than the applicable subset, meant you. And I'm sorry if I somehow offended you by trying to avoid just this situation. I was actually trying to engage in a discussion that didn't get reduced to ad hominem.

I forgot I was on Fark. Won't happen again.
 
2012-12-12 12:09:44 PM

Elegy: Oh, I don't know. Stepping on a gas pedal seems no more more difficult than pulling a trigger to me.


Unless you're a midget, they have comically short features.
 
2012-12-12 12:11:49 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: Fortunately, gun control advocates are working to ensure that future rampages result in much greater death through prohibition of civilian ownership of unreliable firearm magazines.

It's almost as if it's... better? for everyone to have extended mags. It's actually safer for the victims if the shooter has more bullets in the magazine, you just have to assume they won't work as they were designed.


A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.
 
2012-12-12 12:18:39 PM

Dimensio: A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.


Shooter A has a semi-automatic weapon with 12 bullets in the magazine, he has 2 spare magazines with him. He fires upon a crowd at rate of 2 shots per second, and it takes him 3.5 seconds to reload. Within 25 seconds he has fired 36 bullets.

Shooter B has the same semi-automatic weapon but this one holds 18 bullets. Within 25 seconds he has fired 54 bullets.

If you were unarmed, would you rather encounter Shooter A or B?
 
2012-12-12 12:19:59 PM
Dimensio:

also, I would like to know what purpose high-capacity magazines serve? Hunting? You should only need one shot. Self-defense? Unless you were being attacked by a large group of people, extremely unlikely unless you were in an area of gang violence, you should only need a standard issue magazine.
 
2012-12-12 12:21:27 PM

Dimensio: enochianwolf: Dimensio: Fortunately, gun control advocates are working to ensure that future rampages result in much greater death through prohibition of civilian ownership of unreliable firearm magazines.

It's almost as if it's... better? for everyone to have extended mags. It's actually safer for the victims if the shooter has more bullets in the magazine, you just have to assume they won't work as they were designed.

A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.


Facts are to be ignored when they don't fit your worldview.

And that applies to democrats and republicans.
 
2012-12-12 12:23:54 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.

Shooter A has a semi-automatic weapon with 12 bullets in the magazine, he has 2 spare magazines with him. He fires upon a crowd at rate of 2 shots per second, and it takes him 3.5 seconds to reload. Within 25 seconds he has fired 36 bullets.

Shooter B has the same semi-automatic weapon but this one holds 18 bullets. Within 25 seconds he has fired 54 bullets.

If you were unarmed, would you rather encounter Shooter A or B?


a decreased rate of fire doesn't matter if the shooter has more control over their accuracy. You seem to forget the whole "spray" aspect severely reduces the likelihood you'll cause fatalities.
 
2012-12-12 12:24:38 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.

Shooter A has a semi-automatic weapon with 12 bullets in the magazine, he has 2 spare magazines with him. He fires upon a crowd at rate of 2 shots per second, and it takes him 3.5 seconds to reload. Within 25 seconds he has fired 36 bullets.

Shooter B has the same semi-automatic weapon but this one holds 18 bullets. Within 25 seconds he has fired 54 bullets.

If you were unarmed, would you rather encounter Shooter A or B?


34 seconds, within 34 seconds he has fired 54 bullets, oops
 
2012-12-12 12:24:56 PM

enochianwolf: utahraptor2: There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to own 'assault rifles', anyway. It's like we as citizens are considered too untrustworthy to be allowed the right.

I for one think we should make sports cars illegal. You might speed and cause accidents on the roads, so we should do everything we can to prevent those tragedies.


Comparisons between guns and vehicles aren't that easy to make. Yeah, both can be used as a deadly weapon, but you can't fit one into a packed building very easily. You may be a responsible gun owner and if that's the case, I wouldn't mind if you owned 500 guns, or how deadly they were, my problem is making them so readily available, and so lethal, that some fall into the hands of time bombs. This is a preventable thing and we can do things to prevent it besides waiting for the shooting to start.


If I was just crazy and wanted to kill people I could walk into a car dealership, sign a lease for the biggest SUV I could afford, and go mow down people on the sidewalk. The fact that it's hard to get one into a shopping mall is irrelevant.

About a quarter of all homicides are committed by a total stranger. The three largest motivations (in terms of total victims) for stranger-homicides are robbery, arguments, and gang killings, and when you subtract these out you have a grand total of 198 stranger-homicides per year (according to the FBI Crime in the United States report), and that's 198 TOTAL, the number of homicides involving a firearm is likely to be about 2/3 of that number, though I can't find any really concrete numbers. If you include Unknown and Not Specified causes you're still only looking at 1304 stranger-homicides per year, and remember that the gun-specific number is going to be 2/3 of that number (and the rifle-specific number is likely to be 1/10 or less the gun-specific number, or about 90 total rifle-stranger-homicides).

I'm not going to argue the finer points of gun control, but this allows us to put an upper bound of something like 100 completely random killings involving a rifle every year. This is on the order of (in terms of risk) being struck and killed by lightning (about 50 cases in the US every year) or being killed by falling icicles (about 100 cases in Russia every year). Thus, when you do want to argue about gun control, it's probably better to focus on the 9,900 other gun homicides committed every year predominantly in the course of felonies (about 1/3 of all homicides) and with handguns (9/10 or more of firearms crimes), rather than arguing about a very, very few clearly insane people doing insane things. The amount of time devoted to assault rifles and spree killers is completely out of whack with respect to true riskiness.
 
2012-12-12 12:28:30 PM

enochianwolf: Elegy: Oh, I don't know. Stepping on a gas pedal seems no more more difficult than pulling a trigger to me.

Unless you're a midget, they have comically short features.


Do they? I watched this documentary last night, but for some reason I wasn't paying attention to their fingers. I should probably watch it again. You know, for science.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-12 12:28:53 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.

Shooter A has a semi-automatic weapon with 12 bullets in the magazine, he has 2 spare magazines with him. He fires upon a crowd at rate of 2 shots per second, and it takes him 3.5 seconds to reload. Within 25 seconds he has fired 36 bullets.

Shooter B has the same semi-automatic weapon but this one holds 18 bullets. Within 25 seconds he has fired 54 bullets.

If you were unarmed, would you rather encounter Shooter A or B?


I would rather encounter neither, though I prefer to assess actual reality rather than hypothetical speculation when discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of proposed restrictions upon liberty.


also, I would like to know what purpose high-capacity magazines serve? Hunting? You should only need one shot. Self-defense? Unless you were being attacked by a large group of people, extremely unlikely unless you were in an area of gang violence, you should only need a standard issue magazine.

Be aware that most "gun control" advocates are dishonest and define "high-capacity magazines" as any magazine of a capacity greater than ten, even though many standard firearm magazines exceed that capacity; a "normal" AR-15 magazine holds thirty rounds of ammunition, and the "standard" magazine packaged with the .22LR conversion kit that I purchased for my AR-15 holds twenty-six rounds of ammunition. The Glock 19, a popular handgun model, uses a fifteen round magazine as its standard.

"Large" magazines, exceeding the standard capacity for a given firearm, are typically novelty items, though they are useful for recreational target shooters. Most states restrict firearm magazines used for hunting to a relatively low limit, such as five or three rounds. Larger magazines are also unsuited for personal defense outside of the home because they reduce the ability to conceal a firearm.
 
2012-12-12 12:29:44 PM

Girion47: llachlan: Girion47: enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom

The sheer amount of death attributed to heart disease from obesity and you're worried about gun control?

You're priorities are whacko.

Well, here's the thing from my perspective - you get at least a measure of control in most heart disease cases. You get time to wrap things up, maybe say some good-byes (dying still sucks, and yes, it sometimes happens out of the blue, but still, even in those cases, the corner says, 'heart disease, and at least it makes sense).

When a twit with a gun shots you in a mall, a school, a theatre, as collateral damage in a ...


Holy cow. That is not what I said. At all. And is not what I meant. At all.

To clarify, I used proponents and people vs. every person and all proponents (for example). I meant to raise a discussion point, not to insult you, Dimensio or any one else who isn't in that camp. I wasn't actually trying to insult anyone.

Sorry.
 
2012-12-12 12:32:24 PM

Girion47: enochianwolf: Dimensio: A more realistic assessment is that the legal availability of "extended" firearm magazines has neither demonstrably increased rates of violent crime nor demonstrably increased the number of casualties in any single high-publicized mass-shooting event.

Shooter A has a semi-automatic weapon with 12 bullets in the magazine, he has 2 spare magazines with him. He fires upon a crowd at rate of 2 shots per second, and it takes him 3.5 seconds to reload. Within 25 seconds he has fired 36 bullets.

Shooter B has the same semi-automatic weapon but this one holds 18 bullets. Within 25 seconds he has fired 54 bullets.

If you were unarmed, would you rather encounter Shooter A or B?

a decreased rate of fire doesn't matter if the shooter has more control over their accuracy. You seem to forget the whole "spray" aspect severely reduces the likelihood you'll cause fatalities.


A slightly decreased rate of fire is also irrelevant when a shooter has maintained control over a situation; the amount of ammunition fired within twenty-five seconds is not relevant when a shooter has sufficient control over the situation (due to all targets being disarmed) for at least sixty seconds.

Such considerations also ignore that while mass murderers are often irrational and deranged, they are not stupid; limiting the ammunition capacity of their firearms is likely only to result in an alteration of their strategy.

Mr. Seung-Hui Cho utilized only standard-capacity magazines for the firearms that he used when committing mass murder, yet he killed more individuals than has any recently publicized shooter who did use "large capacity" magazines.
 
2012-12-12 12:34:26 PM

llachlan: To clarify, I used proponents and people vs. every person and all proponents (for example). I meant to raise a discussion point, not to insult you, Dimensio or any one else who isn't in that camp. I wasn't actually trying to insult anyone.


You should be aware that while the most visible (at least in the media) advocates of civilian firearm ownership rights may be "tea-party" aligned conservatives who generally oppose civil liberties (and whose use of hyperbole and fallacious reasoning are almost as damaging to the cause of civilian firearm ownership rights advocacy as are the demonstrable lies of the Brady Center and of the Violence Policy Center), the actual body of civilian firearm ownership rights advocacy is substantially more diverse.
 
2012-12-12 12:38:27 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio:

also, I would like to know what purpose high-capacity magazines serve? Hunting? You should only need one shot. Self-defense? Unless you were being attacked by a large group of people, extremely unlikely unless you were in an area of gang violence, you should only need a standard issue magazine.


I should also mention that my .50 round .22LR magazine, used with my AR-15, has been useful for endurance testing: I typically am unable to empty more than half of the magazine's capacity before I experience difficulty keeping the rifle held properly.

I suspect the cause is that I am a wimp.
 
2012-12-12 12:39:07 PM

Girion47: llachlan: What actually tends to happen is that the homeowner, in possession of a legal firearm, is shot by the police when they come to raid the wrong house, and the homeowner is trying to protect his family from an unknown (to him) threat. Or the home owner shoots his own kid in the middle of the night. Rare, but it does happen, and far too often.


Are you aware of what the words "rare" and "often" mean?


Yeah, I am. mea culpa on that. I think my brain got stuck on the fact that even happening rarely, the fact it happens at all, is still far too often.

But as I said. mea culpa.
 
2012-12-12 12:46:43 PM

factoryconnection: Handgun bans in DC and Chicago have shown to be useless at stopping crime, because the law-abiding listen but the lawless just get their weapons from no-ban zones just across the river (or whatever defines the border of Chicago).



It's not a river - it's a 10-foot-wide ring of waste fat and offal that roughly corresponds to the Cook County border.
 
2012-12-12 12:52:00 PM

enochianwolf: Dimensio: enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.

You are correct; clearly, his act of double-homicide would have been acceptable had he utilized a non-tactical Mini-14 to commit it instead of the AR-15 that he was reported to have used.

/Given the low body count, he may actually have used a Mini-14.

It wouldn't have been acceptable if he used a Tickle-me Elmo doll, but the chances of survival for the people in the mall would have been much higher. What i'm saying is people should have to go through more bureaucratic b.s. to get a gun than anything else in their lives, yet ironically you can be diagnosed with mental illness and still get one no problem, and not just a little pea-shooter, you can get serious hardware as a paranoid schizo, and the NRA sees this as freedom


It is freedom, I don't want to be sitting here un-armed when the scumbags who do these sort of things will find a way to get a gun. You can go un-armed all you want to, but there are some nut bags out there and I am going to be prepared.
 
2012-12-12 01:00:25 PM

utahraptor2: I suspect he turned the gun on himself when the reality of what he was doing hit him.


Um, the Aurora shooter is alive and well. When he realized his plan went south after he busted his rifle, and he wasn't about to take on the cops with only the shotgun he used on the crowd, he tried to ditch his weapons and flee the scene. He didn't count on the speed of the police response and got caught out in the open parking lot, unarmed, while trying to get to his car.

That Aurora shooting has a number of lessons. But, contrary to media hype, none of them have to do with body armor, assault rifles, gun laws, or 'high capacity' magazines (well, other than the fact that higher-than-designed capacity magazines are generally completely useless novelties. That lesson was reinforced here.)
 
2012-12-12 01:03:36 PM

enochianwolf: Bullseyed: All assault weapons are banned in the USA. Nice try troll.

How does my local pawn shop sell AK-47s?


They can sell them because they are not automatic rifles.
 
2012-12-12 01:04:21 PM

Dimensio: llachlan: To clarify, I used proponents and people vs. every person and all proponents (for example). I meant to raise a discussion point, not to insult you, Dimensio or any one else who isn't in that camp. I wasn't actually trying to insult anyone.

You should be aware that while the most visible (at least in the media) advocates of civilian firearm ownership rights may be "tea-party" aligned conservatives who generally oppose civil liberties (and whose use of hyperbole and fallacious reasoning are almost as damaging to the cause of civilian firearm ownership rights advocacy as are the demonstrable lies of the Brady Center and of the Violence Policy Center), the actual body of civilian firearm ownership rights advocacy is substantially more diverse.


Oh, I know the group is diverse. There is a safe, under the floor in my kitchen that contains a FN-Browning Model 1910 with trigger lock. I grew up hunting, and do appreciate firearms. I also believe they should be kept at home unless you are going to a range, or going hunting. So I think you can be for gun control, and not be for 'taking all yer gunz'.

I.e. I'm for gun control, but I don't want to take your guns away.
 
2012-12-12 01:19:26 PM

CliChe Guevara: utahraptor2: I suspect he turned the gun on himself when the reality of what he was doing hit him.

Um, the Aurora shooter is alive and well. When he realized his plan went south after he busted his rifle, and he wasn't about to take on the cops with only the shotgun he used on the crowd, he tried to ditch his weapons and flee the scene. He didn't count on the speed of the police response and got caught out in the open parking lot, unarmed, while trying to get to his car.

That Aurora shooting has a number of lessons. But, contrary to media hype, none of them have to do with body armor, assault rifles, gun laws, or 'high capacity' magazines (well, other than the fact that higher-than-designed capacity magazines are generally completely useless novelties. That lesson was reinforced here.)


My worry is that the end result of the lesson will be to 'improve' theatre security i.e. make it harder for me to smuggle in my store bought goodies and thus impinge on my freedom and add to a climate of fear, while doing absolutely nothing to prevent the same thing from happening again.

I do admit there are no easy answers, and far too much vitriol in the discussion for it to ever really go anywhere.
 
2012-12-12 01:33:55 PM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


I have no idea what an hv mag is. I am also not sure what teenagers have to do with this shooting since the man was 22 years old. Regardless though, it is illegal under all but the most limited circumstances for teenagers to walk down the street with any firearm. Even so, the main question George would have is why nobody else had a gun handy so they could shoot this man down as soon as he started pointing his gun at other people.
 
2012-12-12 02:02:45 PM

enochianwolf: Great, another attention whore who just couldn't help himself and had to ruin innocent lives for his narcissistic, masturbatory power trip. glad he's dead, though maybe a couple other people wouldn't be had it been more difficult for him to get a "military-style" weapon. Assault weapons ban is apparently violating the 2nd amendment.

I wonder what George Washington would say if he saw teenagers walking down the street armed with AR-15s loaded with hv mags. And hey, it doesnt specify what kind of arms, lets go ahead and theorize its an NRA members wet dream and give the teens a few fragmentation grenades and flamethrowers for good measure.


You shouldn't need to ask what Washington would think; like most military Presidents he had dictatorial tendencies and his views were very much about the supremacy of the Federal government over the states'. John Adams was even worse, but that was because he was just a typical Masshole. You should be considering what Jefferson would have thought about it - which would probably be that cities & states have the right to individually govern themselves, people have the right to move to cities & states more in tune with their politics, but that cities & states should carefully consider the consequences of giving up a local supply of defense in a world of scum and villainy first.
 
2012-12-12 02:35:26 PM
So why didn't this guy wait til 12/12/12? And 12:12:12?

/cuz there's not gonna be a 13/13/13...
 
2012-12-12 05:10:54 PM
I find it fun that Enochianwolf, ignored the statistics about how many rifles were used out of all the killings in the US.
 
2012-12-12 06:02:57 PM
I came to this thread wanting to see some serious /b/ashing. All I got was this silly gun control thread again.

/I'll never learn
 
2012-12-12 09:13:57 PM
Here's all I can think about. If someone in that mall had been concealed carrying, and been in the right place to stop the shooter, we would be learning about the heroes life, and giving him accolades.

Instead, the news is just about this scumbags life. This is what all these scumbags want.
 
2012-12-12 11:53:38 PM

damannm: I find it fun that Enochianwolf, ignored the statistics about how many rifles were used out of all the killings in the US.


It's very small, I realize this. We should do absolutely nothing about this problem because, hey, its only a few hundred people. Fully-automatic rifles accounting for only 2 deaths in decades, fine, I'll drop any argument using the term "assault rifles" in the future, but as utahraptor2 said, they are all deadly in the right hands. My argument boils down to this : increasing the amount of guns in a society doesn't necessarily correlate to better safety for everyone. Sure, in some places that has been shown to be true, but these results are also factored in with mental illness, education, poverty, drug violence and the like.
 
2012-12-13 12:03:10 AM
I find it amusing that the 4chan subreddors are claiming this graphic was actually created by the Portland subreddit. This makes sense to me; these days /b/tards are all 12 year olds too busy fapping and dressing up as traps to shoot up a mall.

Besides, if you look at the post numbers, the 13th reply down this thread is only numbered 6 posts higher.

Moral of the story: blame reddit, not 4chan.
 
2012-12-13 12:27:00 AM

enochianwolf: damannm: I find it fun that Enochianwolf, ignored the statistics about how many rifles were used out of all the killings in the US.

It's very small, I realize this. We should do absolutely nothing about this problem because, hey, its only a few hundred people. Fully-automatic rifles accounting for only 2 deaths in decades, fine, I'll drop any argument using the term "assault rifles" in the future, but as utahraptor2 said, they are all deadly in the right hands. My argument boils down to this : increasing the amount of guns in a society doesn't necessarily correlate to better safety for everyone. Sure, in some places that has been shown to be true, but these results are also factored in with mental illness, education, poverty, drug violence and the like.


OK so let's blame the guns for what people themselves do. Have you been trained to handle a gun no, does that mean I haven't? As you said mental illness and severe lack of any moral fiber is to blame for people misusing any kind of firearm. Pistols account for much more death and yet no one ever calls for them to be taken away. I am thankful that you can at least accept that an AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Hell you can buy pistol grips for most conventional hunting rifles that doesn't make them assault weapons.

Education is how we fix this issue. Not taking guns from men and women who can follow the laws. I for one am educating my children on gun safety and how to properly use one. This has done 2 things so far:

1. Created a positive way to bond with my daughter(yes my daughter).

2. Solidified the importance of awareness to the things around her. Whether it is being around a loaded gun, handling the .22lr she shoots, or knowing when to tell me if another is being unsafe with a gun around us. All these lessons would have served the people killed in these mass shootings. Complacency is one of the biggest issues of American society today IMHO. To many people are busy with their phone to notice a guy with a SHOTGUN AND RIFLE. That in itself is pathetic and speaks volumes to the problems in our society.

Tl;dr

Pay attention to the world around you. If you don't want a gun fine, but make sure you know how to identify someone packing heat (not always an easy task, unless he has a shotgun, handgun, and rifle.....) and know what you will do in advance. Don't blame guns blame crazy people they will kill someone somehow if they really want to.
 
2012-12-13 11:54:08 AM
Link

EVERYONE is now mentally unstable enough to not own firearms. Take a read, do your research, make up YOUR OWN MIND....don't let others do your thinking for you. UN Weapons Ban anyone?
 
2012-12-13 03:57:21 PM
The first rendition of this said 12/10/12 (Wed), we all laughed because it was an obvious photoshop. Then it was reposted with the day corrected.

Its fake, this never happened, someone posted it yesterday and edited it before releasing it on the internet.
 
2012-12-13 06:44:37 PM
That wasn't coherent at all. Who said what? Is 4chan populated by retards that can't even articulate a complete thought?

Charles.
 
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