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(Reuters)   Best Korea launches missile. CIA predicts they may be able to fire weather satellites into the bottom of the Mariana Trench by 2050   (reuters.com) divider line 22
    More: News, CIA, North Korea, United Nations Security Council, ballistic missiles, military threat, upper stage, per capita incomes, UN resolution  
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7669 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 11:52 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-12 08:11:20 AM  
3 votes:

Esn: If North Korea can do successful things even in the face of worldwide opposition, it similarly legitimizes their cultural values


dl.dropbox.com

I wonder which successful thing you think it is they are doing...
2012-12-12 12:10:41 AM  
3 votes:
2012-12-12 01:08:36 AM  
2 votes:
One line of thought not often considered that all this stuff, the nuke tests, missile tests etc aren't actually aimed at producing workable weapons to use against anyone but rather demonstrate to the North Korean people that the place is run by people who are capable of what they say they are capable of and that they can develop the means to take on the world. North Korea has spent the last 60 plus years telling its own citizens that it can take on anyone. Launching up a few rockets and exploding a nuke or two will do nicely to show the home crowd you can deliver on what you say. Given the media control in North Korea the people aren't going to find out whether or not something worked as planned and thus whether or not it does doesn't matter from that respect. As a bonus if it does work you can cause all sorts of people, the US included, to engage in a massive eyeroll and bark of "Stop that!", that is also nice to play for the home crowd. Especially if you only show them the "Stop that!" part so they think others are angry and/or afraid of them.
2012-12-12 12:42:38 AM  
2 votes:
i58.photobucket.com
2012-12-12 12:10:37 AM  
2 votes:

D_Evans45: So how many years til North Korea or Iran have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the continental US? One of these articles was saying Iran was several years away at least, probably closer to a decade, from actually having a working nuke.

Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.


Imagine how scary it must be for them to know that we can already do this. We can attack them from anywhere in the world at any time we want and there is nothing they can do about it.
2012-12-12 12:05:37 AM  
2 votes:
I don't see why the "international community" is getting so bothered by this. North Korea might not be the most responsible of nations, but they're still a sovereign nation. They can still launch their own damn sats if they want.
Esn
2012-12-12 05:46:39 AM  
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: One line of thought not often considered that all this stuff, the nuke tests, missile tests etc aren't actually aimed at producing workable weapons to use against anyone but rather demonstrate to the North Korean people that the place is run by people who are capable of what they say they are capable of and that they can develop the means to take on the world. North Korea has spent the last 60 plus years telling its own citizens that it can take on anyone. Launching up a few rockets and exploding a nuke or two will do nicely to show the home crowd you can deliver on what you say. Given the media control in North Korea the people aren't going to find out whether or not something worked as planned and thus whether or not it does doesn't matter from that respect. As a bonus if it does work you can cause all sorts of people, the US included, to engage in a massive eyeroll and bark of "Stop that!", that is also nice to play for the home crowd. Especially if you only show them the "Stop that!" part so they think others are angry and/or afraid of them.


I think you've got it.

For the people who're wondering about how North Korea can do this even though they're so poor, they do have a certain advantage: extreme dedication.

They have the kind of society that is a really good fit for idiot savants (or generally people who want to focus on one thing and ignore everything else). Ever watched the Youtube videos of North Korean musicians? They've got to be the best in the world.

Here's one example.

Why? A few reasons. First, life in communist authoritarian societies is MUCH simpler than in democratic capitalist ones (at least this is true of the ones I've had personal knowledge of: the Soviet Union and Cuba, to which North Korea is pretty similar). Your free choices get taken away, but imagine if this also meant that you didn't have to worry about taxes, electric bills, complex legal forms, any of that. Imagine if everything was simple and written out in simple language that anyone could understand. Just imagine how much more time and energy would be freed up if you didn't have to think about any of that. And in North Korea, this is part of the reason for why they have more people who just devote everything to what they do, because there are no distractions, wanted or unwanted. Here, you could not do that even if you wanted to unless you were very rich, because there are all sorts of choices that you HAVE to decide on whether you want to or not. It's part of adulthood. In North Korea, the population is encouraged to be more like children, in that the government takes care of a lot of things so that they don't have to. Our world is more complex than theirs, and this complexity takes up a certain part of our minds and doesn't allow us to be as dedicated to some particular specialty.

The other side is that this same complexity also breeds creativity, but there's more than one way to skin a cat - the North Koreans have gotten to a high level of scientific and cultural development by a very different route than the West has used, but it's one that works as well, and not just in North Korea.
2012-12-12 01:02:09 AM  
1 votes:

omnibus_necanda_sunt: They still need uranium from somewhere


A quick Google search shows that North Korea has operations dealing with phosphates from rock, and so happens such phosphates can be a good source of uranium. Could be they have their own phosphate sources or others are getting the phosphate from others to process nominally into fertilizer. However be perfectly painless to also extract uranium while doing that. Even a small amount of uranium per ton of phosphate would be workable if you can process sufficient tonnage, which happens to be not particularly hard.
2012-12-12 12:56:22 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: debug: Imagine how scary it must be for them to know that we can already do this. We can attack them from anywhere in the world at any time we want and there is nothing they can do about it.


Not scary enough, apparently, they dont seem to give a shiat what the U.S. says/does.


Ignoring for a moment whether the big kid had a good reason for it, if a big kid was oppressing you into the dark ages wouldnt you want to get any possible leverage you could? Short of just stepping on them (mercy killing?) what the heck else could we do to them that we're not already doing? They correctly see this as a bargaining chip. Who can blame their efforts?
2012-12-12 12:56:13 AM  
1 votes:

Kuroshin: D_Evans45: So how many years til North Korea or Iran have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the continental US? One of these articles was saying Iran was several years away at least, probably closer to a decade, from actually having a working nuke.

Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.

If the DPRK manages to make a test-nuke, it'll consume every ounce of fissile resources they can muster for more than a decade. They've got less wealth than your mom.

/ur mom!


They've tested two already:
The first in 2006. Possibly a fizzle.

The second in 2009 

Wealth/costs aren't meaningful when having 2000 calories/day would likely put someone in a very high class there.
das
2012-12-12 12:54:53 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Steroid: What's Korean for "Sputnik"? >_>


Sputnik.
2012-12-12 12:54:24 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: So how many years til North Korea or Iran have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the continental US? One of these articles was saying Iran was several years away at least, probably closer to a decade, from actually having a working nuke.

Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.


North Korea already has nukes. They've conducted two successful tests, the first in 2006 and the second in 2009. The only thing we're not sure of is how long it will take them to scale down the physical size of their devices enough to turn them into missile warheads. The "rocket" launches that some folks in this thread don't see as a big deal are part of North Korea's parallel program to develop long-range ballistic missile technology. When they get the rockets right and the warhead size right, they will marry them up to make long-range ballistic nuclear missiles. And as for Iran, Iran is one of the countries providing missile technology to North Korea. Iran, and other sources, provide technology (and oil) in exchange for a portion of the resulting manufactured weapons. So, instead of thinking this is no big deal, you might want to reconsider how long we have until something really bad results from all this. The time will come sooner than you think.
2012-12-12 12:44:32 AM  
1 votes:

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Christ, how much does this shiat cost? Where do they get the cash for the fuel and oxidizers? Where do they get the uranium? How do they pay for the centrifuges? How does a country full of starving brainwashed retards produce the scientists capable of doing this shiat?


You do realize that starving brainwashed population is the worlds largest sweatshop, right? They use their people as slave laborers to produce what the military wants/needs. Things are cheap when you dont pay for them. Profit margins on goods are high when you have zero costs.

People in North Korea arent starving because they are incapable of producing food... they are starving because the government takes and controls all of the resources, and just doesnt see the need in feeding people... not when they'll go scrape moss off a tree to stay alive all by themselves.

Its a very fascinating place really.... and full of very sad stories.
2012-12-12 12:42:08 AM  
1 votes:

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Christ, how much does this shiat cost? Where do they get the cash for the fuel and oxidizers? Where do they get the uranium? How do they pay for the centrifuges? How does a country full of starving brainwashed retards produce the scientists capable of doing this shiat?


Yeah! How do they manage to marginally accomplish with provided blueprints what we invented from scratch 50 years ago??!??!

They're not doing anything hard or cutting edge. If they have access to a dell desktop they're decades ahead of the computational power that went into the development of basic ICBMs and nuclear devices. Not to mention the fact that they got their designs from Pakistan, so they aren't home-grown.
2012-12-12 12:35:25 AM  
1 votes:

JimmySlicings: [memeblender.com image 350x550]


lulz. I refuse to call this guy a dictator. He's worse - a monarch. Dictators fight for it, monarchs inherit.
2012-12-12 12:35:25 AM  
1 votes:

bbfreak: D_Evans45: So how many years til North Korea or Iran have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the continental US? One of these articles was saying Iran was several years away at least, probably closer to a decade, from actually having a working nuke.

Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.

Well, ICBM's aren't easy to make. Launching anything into orbit is hard enough, but to get a nuke on a target the size of a city you basically need a spacecraft that can survive reentry. First it is launched into space, then its boosted around the earth to its individual target and then reenters like any spacecraft to fall without power onto a target and explode of course.

US sort of went a bit extreme in the 80's and came up with the Peacekeeper missile that could have up to 10 warheads.


Ah yes, the infamous MIRV.
2012-12-12 12:26:13 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45:
They've been days away for 30 years.


This. When people say that these weapons can be built using 1960's tech, they're fundamentally misunderstanding the huge technical difficulties inherent in developing these weapons and the vast resources and infrastructure it takes to actually build them.

/it's more honest to say that the two biggest, wealthiest countries on Earth were able to develop them in the 1960's, but only by utilizing the best minds in the world in physics and engineering and throwing huge amounts of resources behind their development.
2012-12-12 12:21:06 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: So how many years til North Korea or Iran have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the continental US? One of these articles was saying Iran was several years away at least, probably closer to a decade, from actually having a working nuke.

Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.


Well, ICBM's aren't easy to make. Launching anything into orbit is hard enough, but to get a nuke on a target the size of a city you basically need a spacecraft that can survive reentry. First it is launched into space, then its boosted around the earth to its individual target and then reenters like any spacecraft to fall without power onto a target and explode of course.

US sort of went a bit extreme in the 80's and came up with the Peacekeeper missile that could have up to 10 warheads.
2012-12-12 12:17:43 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: So how many years til North Korea or Iran have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting the continental US? One of these articles was saying Iran was several years away at least, probably closer to a decade, from actually having a working nuke.

Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.


If the DPRK manages to make a test-nuke, it'll consume every ounce of fissile resources they can muster for more than a decade. They've got less wealth than your mom.

/ur mom!
2012-12-12 12:08:05 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: Pretty scary, but from the fear mongering earlier this year you'd think these people were just days from having a nuke.


They've been days away for 30 years.
2012-12-12 12:03:16 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Steroid: What's Korean for "Sputnik"? >_>


Juche
2012-12-12 12:02:40 AM  
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: Japan's likely next prime minister, Shinzo Abe, who is leading in opinion polls ahead of an election on December 16 and who made his name as a North Korea hawk, called on the United Nations to adopt a resolution "strongly criticizing" Pyongyang.

/Yes, a strongly worded letter from the UN should turn things right around. Thanks mate.


Interestingly, this could be the catalyst for Japan changing their pacifist constitution to rebuild their military. That and the increasing Chinese aggression surrounding tiny rocks in the ocean.

Hell, even the Chinese are angry at the North Koreans. There are rumours that the starvation and economic ruin in the DPRK is much, much worse than anyone suspects- that even the army is stealing food because the soldiers are going hungry. This could be the straw that breaks support for them.
 
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