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(KPTV Portland) NewsFlash Live coverage of a mall shooting in the Portland suburb of Clackamas. Early reports of two people dead   (kptv.com) divider line 102
    More: NewsFlash, Clackamas, suspicious death, milwaukie, David Blaine, child rape, age of consents, political scandal, suburbs  
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9959 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 7:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-11 07:30:35 PM  
7 votes:
What a horrible thing to happen when people were just trying to celebrate the birth of Clacka.
2012-12-11 08:03:27 PM  
6 votes:

Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.


i.imgur.com

Oblig #1
2012-12-11 07:45:27 PM  
4 votes:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this will be evidence that everyone on the internet has always been correct about whatever their opinion on guns is.
2012-12-11 08:23:43 PM  
3 votes:

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.


I'm going to be honest here: I don't give a shiat what the rest of the world thinks. If you don't live here and understand our culture and values, then your opinion on us and what we do doesn't count. I don't come to your country, pick something you like and tell you that it's bad and so forth.

Yeah, we gun owners are sad when had shiat happens. But we're not any more sad than home brewers are at drunk driving fatalities.

People do bad shiat. But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals. And I'll be damned if I say "yes, let's ban guns on the off chance that it might stop one or two incidents out of the thousands of murders a year."

You want to stop violence? Find a way to fix the human race. Until then, stop blaming inanimate objects for the failure of mankind.
2012-12-11 08:09:00 PM  
3 votes:

MrKoon: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

Shoot apparently was wearing body armor...

/Portlander
//Never go to sketchy Clackamas


It's not a video game, even wearing body armor you're gonna hurt taking a shot in the armor. A broken rib, possible internal injuries.

cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


As someone already pointed out, there was a sign saying that no guns were allowed in the mall. So that's a reason why no one returned fire this time. Though a bigger reason why is that we have law after law after law preventing where law abiding citizens can legally carry fire arms, creating areas where criminals can carry weapons knowing full well that no one can legally shoot back at them. Make the gun control laws as simple as "No one who is a felon or has documented mental illnesses can even attempt to purchase/carry/own a firearm" and then we can allow law abiding citizens to defend themselves without fear of legal reprisal. Because honestly, I'm sure a few people in that mall tonight were wishing that of all the times to have a gun to defend themselves, tonight was that night.

The biggest problem with gun control laws is that it assumes criminals follow the laws.
2012-12-11 07:55:19 PM  
3 votes:
Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.
2012-12-11 07:51:48 PM  
3 votes:
Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?
2012-12-11 07:50:56 PM  
3 votes:

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.
2012-12-12 01:34:19 AM  
2 votes:

davidphogan: Popcorn Johnny: BalugaJoe: They are saying on live stream that was a teenager.

/b/tard

Between yelling, "I am the shooter!" and the reports of a Guy Fawkes mask I wouldn't be surprised.


i.imgur.com 

Stolen from reddit thread

/my wife just turned down a farking job there last month.
2012-12-11 08:54:19 PM  
2 votes:
neongoats: Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.



------------------


They're usually the obnoxious ones too, who like to drive aggressively and escalate situations.

See the poster above who related his story about having a knife pulled on him in a movie theater. Instead of going to the manager and letting him handle the problem in the theater he is responsible for, our friend told a total stranger to STFU and was so scandalized by the response that he cannot go see a movie now without taking his gun with him. I live right next to an idiot like this, his entire political outlook can be understood just by reading the stickers on his truck. He's jumped out of his truck on people here a couple of times, when they motion for him to slow down. Instead of realizing he's speeding down his own damned street with kids on it and taking responsibility for his actions, he will instead jump out, all ready to throw down. Idiot.

And based on the other 2A fanatics I have known, that seems to be a theme.
2012-12-11 08:50:20 PM  
2 votes:

CraicBaby: vygramul: CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.

Most of these assholes aren't. Or they use sub-optimal weapons and accessories.

He supposedly fired at least 60 rounds, too. So yeah, probably a combination of inexperience, shiatty weaponry & shiatty accessories.


I once heard a German WWII vet say that he wasn't very jealous of the M-1 because it encouraged spray-and-pray. He said their bolt-actions incentivized aiming. He's probably over-stating it, but there's probably an element of truth in it. Same is true with these idiots who carry an assault rifle and 100-round mags thinking they can be Charlie Sheen in Hot Shots Part Deux. Instead, they're one of the bad guys in Hot Shots, emptying their belt-fed quad-.50s and only kill the comic relief.
2012-12-11 08:28:55 PM  
2 votes:

Tarl3k: some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.

but, but, if you outlawguns, only outlaws will have guns!!!!111ELEVENTY!!! It isn't possible to completely eliminate guns from a culture!!!! oh wait - Link


From the link:

"To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years."

We have almost the same process here in Australia, though we are allowed any firearms other than semi/automatics.

I like it. It's a tiny imposition considering the harm that firearms are capable of wreaking.

/firearm owner
2012-12-11 08:16:09 PM  
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


The obvious answer is that the killers, rarely lacking in intelligence but always lacking in humanity, note that firearms are banned where they plan to kill their victims, thus providing a lot of helpless targets. You see, when there are signs posted that state that firearms are not permitted, law-abiding citizens tend to obey them, being law-abiding and all, and they tell the shooters that they are good to go at their leisure. So there's your answer: nobody stops it because they don't have the means thanks to laws that provide nothing more than the illusion of safety.

Note that nobody tries this shiat at gun shops. Just saying.
2012-12-11 08:09:43 PM  
2 votes:

Mike_LowELL: What exactly is the point of writing a webcomic if you just use the same picture over and over?


Cause its funny. Like Archer.
2012-12-11 08:09:17 PM  
2 votes:

Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?


Or his parents suspected something was wrong with him but didn't say anything.
2012-12-11 08:00:14 PM  
2 votes:
meh, "And I am sure that I never read any memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers in the winter - we never need read of another. One is enough. If you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad instances and applications? To a philosopher all news, as it is called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over their tea." -Thoreau
2012-12-11 07:56:49 PM  
2 votes:

some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.


We actually have laws against criminals, kids and crazy people having guns. It's almost as if people who are out to commit murder don't care about breaking the gun laws. Weird.

/waiting to see if this is drug/gang related
//yes, even in Portland.
2012-12-11 07:55:34 PM  
2 votes:
I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.
2012-12-11 07:53:42 PM  
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?


That depends. Did someone SHOOT THEM to cause the accident?

No?

Then, no.

Accidents happen. Shootings in a mall are news.
2012-12-11 07:53:12 PM  
2 votes:

They're right, you know. Now is not the time to talk about gun control. The time to talk about gun control was Yesterday. #Portland

- Josiah Bartlet (@Pres_Bartlet) December 12, 2012
2012-12-11 07:52:44 PM  
2 votes:

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.
2012-12-11 07:50:58 PM  
2 votes:

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Not if you're Bob Costas.
2012-12-11 07:50:49 PM  
2 votes:
for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.
2012-12-11 07:50:28 PM  
2 votes:
Clackamas, more like Clackamassacre.


amirite?
2012-12-12 10:02:42 PM  
1 votes:

scalpod: How strange that the AR-15 isn't allowed for use in hunting in Sweden when it's so perfectly suited to the task?

They have high-murder rates but few guns, so obviously they're not the problem. What the f*ck Sweden?


It's because the African immigrants responsible for most of the crime in Sweden are too poor to afford guns.

/used to live in Sweden
2012-12-12 06:04:52 PM  
1 votes:
I own plenty of guns for hunting but my penis is comfortable so I have no need for a dressed down military weapon.
2012-12-12 01:36:49 PM  
1 votes:

neongoats: Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed.


Tell me about it! I know people who are so scared of life in general that they will not to anywhere in a car without putting on their seat belts! What a bunch of pussies.

/Sarcasm.
2012-12-12 09:01:48 AM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: Kit Fister: Dimensio: RealFarknMcCoy2: Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.

No, you should mimic Australia by enacting harsher laws. We have much stricter gun control than America, and we've got very few people killed by guns here.
You're welcome.

You are correct. Mass homicide and violent attacks by mentally unstable individuals are perfectly acceptable when committed with an implement other than a firearm.

Well, no, but...

If RealFarknMcCoy2 did not believe such, then for what reason would he advocate restriction upon civilian firearm ownership rather than measures to preemptively diagnose and treat mentally unstable individuals before any violent outburst occurs?


Well, I wasn't answering for him, brother. Specifically, however, it's an exercise in intellectual dishonesty: people believe that there's a difference in violence committed with an object they're taught to hate, dislike, or fear and violence committed with objects they see as inherently not designed to do violence.

Kill 50 people by running a bus off the road while drunk? Tragic accident. Kill 50 people with a gun? ZOMG MASS SHOOTER TERRORIST!

The problem is that people, whether willfully or not, seem to associate levels of tragedy with the means by which they were committed rather than the acts themselves.

Another case in point: Suicide bomber blows himself up in a crowd of people, kills 20 civilians and wounds dozens more. International community/pundits: "Oh, just another day over there for those crazy fanatics, and in other news..."

However, replace suicide bomber with drone strike, and you get hours of discussion, bloviating, and overall condemnation, along with moral outrage.

The outcome's the same, the delivery method is different.

Until people who call for stricter gun laws disassociate themselves with their preconceived notions about guns and focus on the behavior and causes of same, it's never going to stop, and many countries have already proven this.
2012-12-12 03:44:03 AM  
1 votes:

LeglessDog: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.


Let's see. Jared Lee Loughner bought the gun he used to shoot 20 people, six fatally. James Eagan Holmes got his weapons legally before he killed 12 people and injured nearly 60 more. Mark O. Barton got his guns legally before he killed a bunch of people. In fact, pretty much every time an adult goes on a shooting spree, they use legally obtained guns. So your argument falls completely flat in the context of people just going out and shooting people more or less randomly.
2012-12-12 01:47:42 AM  
1 votes:

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: davidphogan: Popcorn Johnny: BalugaJoe: They are saying on live stream that was a teenager.

/b/tard

Between yelling, "I am the shooter!" and the reports of a Guy Fawkes mask I wouldn't be surprised.

 

Stolen from reddit thread

/my wife just turned down a farking job there last month.


WAT.

OP actually delivered? Holy fark.

/chilling
2012-12-12 01:14:13 AM  
1 votes:

queezyweezel: KhamanV: So how would chucklefark here do this with a knife, as is the cute bullshiat false comparison? I wish I had that Tom Tomorrow strip handy.

um, this guy managed to kill 8 people with a knife. wouldn't that make a knife more dangerous?

Link


Top Eight Mass Murders by Body Count on U.S. Soil in U.S. History


• #7 (tie) ― UA Flight #969, November 1, 1955, over Denver, CO, by Jack Gilbert Graham. 44 dead. Weapon: explosives. Motive: kill hated mom for insurance money.

• #7 (tie) ― Continental Flight #11, May 22, 1962, over Unionville, MO, by Thomas G. Doty. 44 dead, including Doty. Weapon: explosives. Motive: kill self for insurance fraud to help family. Inspired the original Airport novel and movie.

• #6 ― Bath School Massacre, May 18, 1927, in Bath, MI, by Andrew Kehoe. 45 dead (mostly children). Weapons: explosives. Worst fully intentional school massacre, body count = Columbine + Virginia Tech. Kehoe did fire one shot, but not at any person. He used it to detonate his final bomb in his own vehicle, killing himself and bystanders including the Superintendent of Schools. Motive: blamed school taxes for financial failure of farm.

• #5 ― Happy Land Night Club Arson, March 25, 1990, in The Bronx, NY, by Julio Gonzáles. 87 dead. Weapon: gasoline. Motive: his girlfriend who worked there dumped him.

• #4 ― Our Lady of Angels School apparent arson, December 1, 1958, in Chicago, IL. 95 dead (mostly children). Weapon: apparently matches setting fire to a trash heap inside the school. 10-year-old pyromaniac confessed and recanted. He had set other fires, and apparently didn′t intend anyone to be hurt, so this one may not technically qualify as a mass murder.

• #3 ― Hartford Circus Fire, July 6, 1944, allegedly by Robert Dale Segee. 167−9 dead. Weapon (if any): something flammable. Segee confessed but recanted, and it can't even be proved that he was in the State of CT at the time. This one may not qualify as a mass murder, as it′s possible that the fire started without intent.

• #2 ― Oklahoma City Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building Bombing, April 19, 1995, by Timothy McVeigh. 168 (or 169) dead including 19 children. Weapon: explosives made from fertilizer, explosion shaped by panel van.

• #1 ― 9/11 attacks, September 11, 2001, by nineteen hijackers. Nearly 3,000 dead. Weapons: commercial jet airliners as cruise missiles.

Grand total of bullets fired at people in all of the above, combined: Zero! None! Zip! Nada! Zilch!

Moral: if you want to kill lots of people quickly, while there are certainly less effective weapons to use than firearms, firearms are nowhere near the most effective.

None of the Top Five even involved weapons by the Michael Moore definition of the term (an object designed and made for the express purpose of killing or physically harming people)!
2012-12-12 12:49:24 AM  
1 votes:

RodneyToady: So, if Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie is found in the shooter's place, will that be blamed for this? There was a mall shooting in that, too.

/shrim


No they ban AK-47's.
gonewiththetwins.com
Because Robert Loggia is clearly using an AK-47.
2012-12-12 12:32:26 AM  
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: USP .45: Mrtraveler01: If it happens in a high profile venue like a mall

meanwhile the third largest city in the US is not high profile.

Because city = mall. A ghetto neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago is not a high profile venue compared to a busy shopping mall.

This is basic stuff dude.


East coast stompin, rippin and rompin
New York, North Clackamas, and Compton
Checka-checka-check it out!
2012-12-12 12:09:41 AM  
1 votes:
It's really not so bad when you consider that these folks have simply been Second Amendmented.
2012-12-12 12:07:37 AM  
1 votes:

Somacandra: Mrtraveler01: But clearly this means that Drew hates white people.

1) Did you see the same bullshiat about black people vs. white people shooter crap in that thread there too?

2) What the hell happened to my posts in that thread?

3) Damn that thread had Fat Jokes and Gun Control. Sorry that it had to be such a terrible tragedy to get that combination of humor.

4) Hey, maybe some people at the 'Cracker-Ass' mall were fat too?


"Maybe" some people at CTC were fat?! There are only two body-types in Clackamas: Tweaker and 'People of Wal-Mart'.
2012-12-11 11:17:27 PM  
1 votes:

Xcott: You're right: the media should pretend this shooting didn't happen, out of fairness to all the white males. You know how butthurt they get when people draw attention to their shooting sprees.


All honestly, no, the media shouldn't be making a deal about this. 2 people were killed... oh no, 2!!!

Do you know how many have been killed in Detroit or Chicago in the past week by gun shot? And my guess... those guns used are not legally obtained or registered.

But when 1 guy shoots up a mall, killing only 2 people.... lets drag it all over the national media & start talking gun control again *eyeroll*

USP .45: Brown people just do it out of habit and we whities ignore it assuming they have no intellectual capacity to change without our guidance. Meanwhile some isolated white nut shoots some people and we whitey devise ways to restrict our own access to guns.


I hear ya...

2012-12-11 09:52:39 PM  
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.

so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!


*facepalm*
2012-12-11 09:41:04 PM  
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I post that to ensure that the distinction never gets blurred again by people like you who are seemingly disinterested in the truth.


You should be angry at the manufacturers who deliberately design their weapons to give the public impression they give. Semi-automatic rifles don't have to look like pseudo-military-style testosterone injections they often do. But they want to indulge people to play like they're in the army or something. They like that fantasy and it helps sell those kinds of weapons. Make them all pink or plaid, I say.
2012-12-11 09:37:03 PM  
1 votes:

AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals

We also don't stop law-abiding citizens from BECOMING criminals, dipshiat.

Jeebus, you sound like a parody of yourself. Why do you love your guns more than you love peace?


has anyone pointed out the irony in someone with your nickname advocating for peace yet?
2012-12-11 09:35:26 PM  
1 votes:

Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop

Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.

Because its reasonable to abridge the freedoms and rights of people if it means that we can save then from themselves, right?

Those who give up liberty in the name of security deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

Further, I prefer to live life and accept the risks of it than to allow asshats like you determine what is and is not a reasonable measure to take to "protect" me.

But thinks like background checks and CCW permits are ok correct?


Reasonable methods to prevent known criminals and threats from havin free reign in such a way that does not hinder the exercise of a right is fine.

I have no issues subjecting myself to classes, background checks, and other such as they don't stop me from freely exercising my rights once performed. Like a doctor's checkup or similar.

It's the deliberate desire to restrict or remove a right that is unacceptable.
2012-12-11 09:34:06 PM  
1 votes:
Woo! 6:30 press conference has started!
2012-12-11 09:22:42 PM  
1 votes:

TommyymmoT: Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net


Clacka, his Ford white, his clothing camouflaged, with rifle loaded.
2012-12-11 09:16:26 PM  
1 votes:

grunthos: AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!


The main problem with his argument is that he doesn't seem to realize that Norway and Switzerland are separate countries.
2012-12-11 09:11:13 PM  
1 votes:

phaseolus: Adolf Oliver Nipples: That's not what it's about. It's not about gun minutia obsessions, it's about how the media sensationalizes everything, such that a guy with an Airsoft gun is walking around carrying the latest and greatest black full-auto killing machine. It's not that they have to know the difference between a Glock and anything else, but that they don't need to make stuff up.


Okay, that's more reasonable, then.

Did the airsoft thing actually happen? Do those kinds of stories happen a lot? If they do I never take notice, unlike incidents like tonight's which you can't help but notice.


It happens from time to time, some more dramatic than others.

This thread is going to go completely off the rails soon, so I'll post this before it does:

"Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

The reason this is significant is that when the media gets it wrong, they feed a moral panic that plays right into the hands of a few who not only have an agenda but actively attempt to sow confusion in order to progress that agenda. The Brady Campaign and the Violence Policy Center (Josh Sugarmann's organization) are hardly the only ones that are guilty of doing that, but in this case it has proven to be such an effective strategy that it is difficult to make distinctions, and when the media makes no effort it simply inflames the situation further.
2012-12-11 09:10:54 PM  
1 votes:
If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.
2012-12-11 09:09:48 PM  
1 votes:

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


.233?

Probably .223 Its a comparatively less powerful round with less kick than a 30-30 or a 30-06. Similar to the 5.56 NATO rounds---it would unfortunately be a good choice for this type of carnage. Easy to get, easy to fire. 

/220, 221 whatever it takes
2012-12-11 09:09:35 PM  
1 votes:
Lots of cops are headed there to get the overtime.
2012-12-11 09:08:23 PM  
1 votes:
While everyone else debates gun control, I'm just going to point out that there is an entire company of paramilitary and military personnel responding to this incident. Which is far scarier than the fact some whacko went on a shooting binge in a mall.
2012-12-11 09:06:47 PM  
1 votes:
A ban on getting shot in public could have prevented this.
2012-12-11 09:04:44 PM  
1 votes:

Marine1: A comment I saw on Facebook summed these mall shootings up nicely:

"Canned hunts for nutjobs."

/can we spend some more money on mental health care?
//please?


No because it's less sexy than gun bans to a "civilized" outside world.

Seriously, comprehensive mental healthcare, along with comprehensive reporting of people suspected of being a danger for mandatory legal evaluation along with a temporary flag preventing the purchase of firearms, pending further evaluation. Anyone considered a major threat could be hospitalized for evaluation.

Better than the alternative.
2012-12-11 09:01:05 PM  
1 votes:

grunthos: So, the Koreans and Japanese don't have crazy people shooting them....but they got crazy people killing them all the same. If they'd allowed more guns, it looks like they'd be safer. At least the body count would go down.


With more thoughtful planning, the Aurora massacre could have killed nearly everyone in the theatre with far less time, money, and effort.
2012-12-11 08:57:18 PM  
1 votes:

jaylectricity: What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?


If the mall has a Family Dollar there may be some overlap.
2012-12-11 08:52:16 PM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.

A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.


Actual data is of no relevance to the cause of civilian disarmament.
2012-12-11 08:51:45 PM  
1 votes:

jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?



Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not. 
2012-12-11 08:50:25 PM  
1 votes:

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


Until they mount their guns on a bike. Then we're done for.
2012-12-11 08:50:09 PM  
1 votes:

Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.


A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.
2012-12-11 08:49:21 PM  
1 votes:
Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero.

I guess you don't know many red necks or yahoos then. Doesn't mean they don't exist. They are in fact pretty numerous. A while back there was a story in my hometown of a guy getting kicked out of a bar and coming back with a gun. The other patrons of the bar all pulled weapons as well. There were >50 guns going off and ~400 rounds fired. There were thousands of $ in damages and the only injuries were from broken glass. Yes, everyone missed on every shot. Yes, the bar owner sued the shooters for damages to his bar.

I'm not anti-gun. I won a S&W myself. However there are places that you go where they don't belong and places where they do. If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer. If she has to walk in a dangerous area for work or something then yes, that is a good time to carry it. Any time you have crowds is a bad time for walking around armed. If there is a shooting and you have your gun out, witnesses/police may mistake you for the shooter and you risk getting shot yourself.
2012-12-11 08:44:54 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.


Ignoring the calls for programs and laws that might actually help people *and*stop mass murders... I get it though, if it's not YOUR solution, it's not worth acknowledging
2012-12-11 08:44:51 PM  
1 votes:
This is going to forever taint Mark Twain's short story The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Clackamas County
2012-12-11 08:43:59 PM  
1 votes:

EatenTheSun: cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.

Or maybe it's just because you don't hear about it. Link

"At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Assam opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. Police say that after suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself."


Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.
2012-12-11 08:42:06 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


Or maybe it's just because you don't hear about it. Link

"At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Assam opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. Police say that after suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself."
2012-12-11 08:41:01 PM  
1 votes:

CraicBaby: Shooter is dead.


culturemob.com

RIP Shooter
2012-12-11 08:40:59 PM  
1 votes:
I don't really think more gun control can really ever help situations like this. I don't think less can either. Do you ever think how bad the massacre might be if we didn't let the crazies shoot up the place with their guns?

As dangerous as a gunshot wound is, it's nothing compared to VX gas, or a McVeigh style truck bomb. Or a wound from a 6 foot long sword. Most crazy batshiat mall shooters aren't exactly crack shots.

Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.

There are some restrictions that make sense. Former military and felon for having an armed stand off with a swat team because you stopped taking your lithium? Yeah, you probably shouldn't even be permitted lighter fluid, much less a firearm.(I know this person IRL, and he still illegally owns and shoots firearms, up to and including ar15s).
2012-12-11 08:39:54 PM  
1 votes:
And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.
2012-12-11 08:36:56 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop
2012-12-11 08:36:03 PM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

[thismodernworld.com image 720x672] 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


So we make guns illegal and mass murders go away?
2012-12-11 08:35:45 PM  
1 votes:
Two dead, plus the shooter.
2012-12-11 08:35:20 PM  
1 votes:

MayoSlather: Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.

So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.


That's clearly not his argument, but I feel the need to respond because for all I know you might actually be serious. And then someone on the internet would be WRONG.

There were roughly 8000 gun related homicides in the US in 2004 (the most recent year for which I found stuff easily). The National Institutes of Justice collect data on the motivations behind crime, including homicides. That year, the NIJ says that 94.4 of all gun homicides were gang related, which means that only 448 of those homicides were non-gang related. I don't know how many of those 448 homicides are random killings, and how many can be explained otherwise (crimes of passion and other motivations).

Even if you assume that there will be 448 random gun-related killings in America (which is assuredly a gross overestimate, if Wikipedia's page on spree killers is any indication), that's still a pretty astonishingly small number for a country as large as the USA. It puts it roughly on par (in terms of relative danger) as things like death by lightning, falling icicles, choking on a hot dog, and the like. It's orders of magnitude less of a risk than things like getting hit by a drunk driver or someone who is texting while driving.
2012-12-11 08:31:31 PM  
1 votes:
Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.
2012-12-11 08:27:17 PM  
1 votes:

duffblue: Why is the National Guard there?


Mrs. Field's Cookies.
2012-12-11 08:22:08 PM  
1 votes:

ghare: Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.


Dude... shut the fark up.
2012-12-11 08:21:04 PM  
1 votes:
Granted you can't grow guns, but with nearly 300 million in private hands in the US, they aren't going anywhere.

i46.tinypic.com
2012-12-11 08:20:42 PM  
1 votes:
Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.
2012-12-11 08:20:00 PM  
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Note that nobody tries this shiat at gun shops. Just saying


Yeah. At gun shops, they just accidentally kill their own children.
2012-12-11 08:18:34 PM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.


The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun
2012-12-11 08:18:12 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?


On the first part, 100%. A mentally stable person does not shoot up a mall under any circumstance.

On the second part, who knows?

It's another sad shooting in the U.S. and these types of shootings will be a recurring theme until we collectively decide to have a culture shift. Until then, my only advice is don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
2012-12-11 08:11:55 PM  
1 votes:

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.
2012-12-11 08:11:43 PM  
1 votes:
If everyone in the mall had been packing heat, the death toll would have been much lower.
2012-12-11 08:11:02 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


Internet NRA tough guys are probably busy pushing children out of the way to escape
2012-12-11 08:09:43 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.

Link

Mass shootings are statistically rare though.

http://gunssavelives.net/

looks legit........
2012-12-11 08:07:56 PM  
1 votes:

davidphogan: lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.

Glad you're okay. Did you hear/see any of it?

Apparently the shooter screamed, "I'm the shooter" before opening fire.


I was downstairs at Macy's. I didn't see anything but heard the gunshots and ran with some people into a store.
2012-12-11 08:07:27 PM  
1 votes:
More likely than a good citizen with a gun taking out a random shooter or assassin before he can do heavy damage, I think we'll see a story in some area with a lot of conceal carry where 3 people try to play heroes, all end up shooting each other out of their confusion and inability to process the situation beyond thinking "this is it, this is my moment to prove why I've been doing this!" and then the actual gunman gets away.

Naturally the loss of life would be sad, but it'd be one of the more productive losses of life in terms of proving points.
2012-12-11 08:07:08 PM  
1 votes:

Mrbogey: MayoSlather: So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.

No, my argument is that people who want to ban guns aren't able to comprehend how silly their arguments are due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

We have a prohibition on arming criminals in America. We make sure non-criminals can arm themselves.


I thought it was the Kruger-Brent Effect

// obscure
2012-12-11 08:05:36 PM  
1 votes:
www.troll.me
2012-12-11 08:05:30 PM  
1 votes:
What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?
2012-12-11 08:05:04 PM  
1 votes:
www.washingtonpost.com
2012-12-11 08:03:15 PM  
1 votes:
the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.
2012-12-11 08:02:39 PM  
1 votes:

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
2012-12-11 08:00:46 PM  
1 votes:
Hot lead is the new coal.
2012-12-11 08:00:32 PM  
1 votes:
So how would chucklefark here do this with a knife, as is the cute bullshiat false comparison? I wish I had that Tom Tomorrow strip handy.
2012-12-11 08:00:24 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?


There have been several instances where people do. (Frequently it doesn't become news because once the second guy pulls a gun the would-be criminal decides to go elsewhere and leaves suddenly without shooting anyone.)

Funny thing that.
2012-12-11 08:00:19 PM  
1 votes:

Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.


I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.
2012-12-11 07:59:21 PM  
1 votes:

MayoSlather: So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.


No, my argument is that people who want to ban guns aren't able to comprehend how silly their arguments are due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

We have a prohibition on arming criminals in America. We make sure non-criminals can arm themselves.
2012-12-11 07:57:32 PM  
1 votes:

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: msnbc says shooter "neutralized."


i.imgur.com

That's not helpful. It took place in the food court. The shooter could have been using any one of these products, possibly in combination. 

/yeah I'm an asshole
/good thoughts for the traumatized
2012-12-11 07:55:25 PM  
1 votes:
Mall shootings are so over.
2012-12-11 07:55:04 PM  
1 votes:
Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.
2012-12-11 07:54:49 PM  
1 votes:

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.
2012-12-11 07:53:48 PM  
1 votes:
I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.
2012-12-11 07:50:48 PM  
1 votes:
As someone who works in retail and wants Christmas shoppers dead, I will point out that this is not the way to go about things.

/Snark aside, stay safe Portland people
2012-12-11 07:49:47 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.


2.bp.blogspot.com

/oblig
2012-12-11 07:27:11 PM  
1 votes:
Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?
2012-12-11 07:16:39 PM  
1 votes:
Who would shoot a mall?
 
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