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(KPTV Portland) NewsFlash Live coverage of a mall shooting in the Portland suburb of Clackamas. Early reports of two people dead   (kptv.com) divider line 883
    More: NewsFlash, Clackamas, suspicious death, milwaukie, David Blaine, child rape, age of consents, political scandal, suburbs  
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9959 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 7:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-11 09:04:44 PM  

Marine1: A comment I saw on Facebook summed these mall shootings up nicely:

"Canned hunts for nutjobs."

/can we spend some more money on mental health care?
//please?


No because it's less sexy than gun bans to a "civilized" outside world.

Seriously, comprehensive mental healthcare, along with comprehensive reporting of people suspected of being a danger for mandatory legal evaluation along with a temporary flag preventing the purchase of firearms, pending further evaluation. Anyone considered a major threat could be hospitalized for evaluation.

Better than the alternative.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:51 PM  

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


.223 is insanely common. Could be just about anything.
 
2012-12-11 09:05:01 PM  
I work over on Sunnybrook (next street over); we heard siren after siren after siren, so I checked KATU's website and saw the breaking news.

"What are the chances," I thought, "that my kid home from college got out of bed before 3 o'clock and went to the mall with Dad to get me a nice Christmas present?" None, really, but...uh. So I called home...no answer. Called again, no answer. Texted him, and then called my husband's cell--which was answered after a few rings by my son, WITH SIRENS IN THE BACKGROUND.

I said "ARE YOU" and he said "NO WE'RE NOT!" and I about puked in relief. But the were driving down 82nd right in front of Town Center shortly about fifteen minutes after the shooting and it was a madhouse, they saw dozens of emergency vehicles pouring in, people running... They were right in front of Town Center when I called.

My heart rate is just now slowing down. We locked our doors at work (although it now appears the shooter was dead by the time we did that), just in case, and when I left the office my coworker watched me from the back door while I made the forty-foot trek to my car.

Ack. My excellent husband had a drink waiting for me when I got home. Love that man.
 
2012-12-11 09:05:28 PM  
Is Wikipedia page up yet?
 
2012-12-11 09:05:33 PM  
Kuroshin: met her once what a coont
img.spokeo.com
She could've been the cover double for Tina Fey's "Bossypants"

hmmm...;
www.tonyaharding.com/messages/standard/MESSAGES.CFM?...13
" I always kept a picture of Tonya Harding with me inside my body armor. I would pull it out during my most trying moments and I would feel better just staring at beautiful Tonya Hardings smile on the cheap color photo copy paper I had wrapped in clear tape to protect it. Her beautiful picture made me happy when I was devestated due to combat losses, her beautiful face made me push harder to focus and stay alert when I was exhausted on combat patrols. I always felt better just thinking about how I wished I could put down my machine gun and hold Tonya Harding in my arms with my arms around her waist and hold her close to me, hug her gently and kiss her cheek softly and run my fingers through her hair affectionately. Tonyas beauty reminded me what I was fighting for ,among other things, to protect her freedoms and her safety, and her prosperous future as an American. I love Tonya Harding's image of precious beauty. If you ever see her ,kiss her on the forehead for me and tell her, her fans cherish her talent and her darling doll like beauty. -U.S. Army Infantryman"
 
2012-12-11 09:05:55 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.


www.slickguns.com
 
2012-12-11 09:05:59 PM  

Rockstone: jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.

OK...so why don't we have to divert traffic when there's a shooting in the ghetto?

There's not as much traffic in the ghetto.


Yeah, because nobody in their right mind wants to drive through there.
 
2012-12-11 09:06:06 PM  

vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.


*nod* Matches eyewitness reports of the gun being an assault rifle, then.
 
2012-12-11 09:06:13 PM  

jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.

OK...so why don't we have to divert traffic when there's a shooting in the ghetto?


Give up.
 
2012-12-11 09:06:30 PM  

vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.


On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?
 
2012-12-11 09:06:47 PM  
A ban on getting shot in public could have prevented this.
 
2012-12-11 09:07:13 PM  

Dimensio: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

[www.slickguns.com image 500x269]


*chuckle*
 
2012-12-11 09:07:18 PM  

Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?


But, now that you mention it, when a girl says its a good size, that's a nice way of saying that it's small.
 
2012-12-11 09:07:27 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.


Not necessarily. But, yeah, highly unlikely.
 
2012-12-11 09:08:09 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Give up.


Yeah, because nobody gives a shiat about anybody they don't know. Unless they're media-friendly.
 
2012-12-11 09:08:23 PM  
While everyone else debates gun control, I'm just going to point out that there is an entire company of paramilitary and military personnel responding to this incident. Which is far scarier than the fact some whacko went on a shooting binge in a mall.
 
2012-12-11 09:08:26 PM  

Dimensio: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

[www.slickguns.com image 500x269]


That not just counts as a handgun, but in VA, it even qualifies as concealable.
 
2012-12-11 09:09:35 PM  
Lots of cops are headed there to get the overtime.
 
2012-12-11 09:09:48 PM  

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


.233?

Probably .223 Its a comparatively less powerful round with less kick than a 30-30 or a 30-06. Similar to the 5.56 NATO rounds---it would unfortunately be a good choice for this type of carnage. Easy to get, easy to fire. 

/220, 221 whatever it takes
 
2012-12-11 09:09:51 PM  

Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?


Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:32 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.


------------------


Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Snakebite anti-venom? How about a tourniquet? 20 batteries in each size? A personal flotation device?

You're not worried about ANY eventuality if not.


As a matter of fact, I keep pretty much everything needed to survive here in MI in my truck, from a fire extinguisher to a tool box to spare blankets and winter accessories to a corpsman's medkit.

Plus a grab bag with the essentials.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:43 PM  

knowless: Did you guys hear that north Korea just launched a rocket over Okinawa? Or did that one just go over your heads?


Those of us with AP apps on our Ipod Touches knew 30 minutes ago. We're prepared for every eventuality.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:54 PM  
If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:57 PM  

BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.


No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:59 PM  
Oh yeah, and don't forget the fire when the band Great White was playing in Rhode Island...100 dead and they weren't even trying to kill anyone!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire

Also, the management of that venue was in violation of any number of ordinances. So, once again, having laws in place didn't seem to help much.

Oh, and only 3 days before that, 21 dead at another nightclub..from a pepper-spray (non-lethal, remember?) induced riot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_E2_nightclub_stampede

These shooters are total underperformers.
 
2012-12-11 09:11:13 PM  

phaseolus: Adolf Oliver Nipples: That's not what it's about. It's not about gun minutia obsessions, it's about how the media sensationalizes everything, such that a guy with an Airsoft gun is walking around carrying the latest and greatest black full-auto killing machine. It's not that they have to know the difference between a Glock and anything else, but that they don't need to make stuff up.


Okay, that's more reasonable, then.

Did the airsoft thing actually happen? Do those kinds of stories happen a lot? If they do I never take notice, unlike incidents like tonight's which you can't help but notice.


It happens from time to time, some more dramatic than others.

This thread is going to go completely off the rails soon, so I'll post this before it does:

"Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

The reason this is significant is that when the media gets it wrong, they feed a moral panic that plays right into the hands of a few who not only have an agenda but actively attempt to sow confusion in order to progress that agenda. The Brady Campaign and the Violence Policy Center (Josh Sugarmann's organization) are hardly the only ones that are guilty of doing that, but in this case it has proven to be such an effective strategy that it is difficult to make distinctions, and when the media makes no effort it simply inflames the situation further.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:07 PM  

redsquid: AssAsInAssassin: Pharacyde: Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

I feel more like I do now than I did before.

Are you quoting Yogi Berra or just channeling him?


What channel is he on? I just get basic cable.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:12 PM  

Somacandra: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

.233?

Probably .223 Its a comparatively less powerful round with less kick than a 30-30 or a 30-06. Similar to the 5.56 NATO rounds---it would unfortunately be a good choice for this type of carnage. Easy to get, easy to fire. 

/220, 221 whatever it takes


Yeah, it was a typo. I meant .223.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:29 PM  

Oblio13


WhoIsWillo: LeglessDog: Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.

No. Most criminals have a friend buy the weapon for them in exchange for money or drugs legally.

Um, that would be an illegal straw purchase...


I've embiggened and emboldened an important word for you.
 
ecl
2012-12-11 09:12:53 PM  

Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?


Everyone should know you're clown shoes by now.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:55 PM  
Lieberman is on CNN and pretty proud of trying to ban fully-automatic weapons.
 
2012-12-11 09:13:08 PM  

vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?

Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.


All assault rifles are restricted by the 1934 National Firearms Act. Civilian-available AR-15 rifles, lacking any firing mode where more than one round is discharged per single trigger pull, by definition cannot be assault rifles.
 
2012-12-11 09:13:08 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.


Is this a clumsy Australia-Austria joke derivative?
 
2012-12-11 09:13:51 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.


Multiple witnesses have described it as an AR-15 that I've heard now. Guns are fairly popular in Oregon, especially in Clackamas County so they probably have seen one before to jump right to a description that is that specific and not just "assault rifle." Quite a few more have said assault rifle, but I've heard at least eight witnesses specifically call it an AR-15.
 
2012-12-11 09:14:17 PM  

Dimensio: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

A tactically modified Mini-14 is also possible, but an AR-15 is more likely.


Everyone's been expecting a return of the assault weapon ban, so the Armalite derivatives have been getting more sales.

/Mini-14 is actually better for most gun owners needs, but the evil black rifles get all the attention.
/The stats aren't much different, just that the Ruger is less needy on the maintenance.
 
2012-12-11 09:14:27 PM  

Ed Finnerty: jaylectricity: What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?

If the mall has a Family Dollar there may be some overlap.


Dollar Store is across the street. CTC is in a bad neighborhood.

/used to live down by the high school
 
2012-12-11 09:14:37 PM  

gopher321: Who would shoot a mall?


I think the grammar is confusing you. Re-read the headline. It's the mall that's doing the shooting.
 
2012-12-11 09:14:57 PM  

Somacandra: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

[i.imgur.com image 670x618]

Oblig #1


He's got a point.

We should deregulate Sudafed.
 
2012-12-11 09:15:09 PM  
AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!
 
2012-12-11 09:15:27 PM  

Kit Fister: But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals


We also don't stop law-abiding citizens from BECOMING criminals, dipshiat.

Jeebus, you sound like a parody of yourself. Why do you love your guns more than you love peace?
 
2012-12-11 09:15:41 PM  
Time for another false flag already?
 
2012-12-11 09:15:50 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.


Which "psychopath" in Switzerland used an automatic weapon, from Switzerland, to murder 60+ children?
 
2012-12-11 09:16:08 PM  

Dallymo: I work over on Sunnybrook (next street over); we heard siren after siren after siren, so I checked KATU's website and saw the breaking news.

"What are the chances," I thought, "that my kid home from college got out of bed before 3 o'clock and went to the mall with Dad to get me a nice Christmas present?" None, really, but...uh. So I called home...no answer. Called again, no answer. Texted him, and then called my husband's cell--which was answered after a few rings by my son, WITH SIRENS IN THE BACKGROUND.

I said "ARE YOU" and he said "NO WE'RE NOT!" and I about puked in relief. But the were driving down 82nd right in front of Town Center shortly about fifteen minutes after the shooting and it was a madhouse, they saw dozens of emergency vehicles pouring in, people running... They were right in front of Town Center when I called.

My heart rate is just now slowing down. We locked our doors at work (although it now appears the shooter was dead by the time we did that), just in case, and when I left the office my coworker watched me from the back door while I made the forty-foot trek to my car.

Ack. My excellent husband had a drink waiting for me when I got home. Love that man.



Glad to hear you and your family are okay. 
 
2012-12-11 09:16:24 PM  

Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.


hehe, gun control nuts just got biatch slapped in Illinois. Supreme Court ruled that Illinois was indeed infringing on the 2nd amendment rights of illinoians. They have 180 days to draw up gun laws allowing residents to carry.
 
2012-12-11 09:16:26 PM  

grunthos: AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!


The main problem with his argument is that he doesn't seem to realize that Norway and Switzerland are separate countries.
 
2012-12-11 09:16:59 PM  

jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: Give up.

Yeah, because nobody gives a shiat about anybody they don't know. Unless they're media-friendly.


You're not paying attention.

Things that affect a lot of people become breaking news.

Shootings in apartments become news in the paper the next day.

Clackamas county had other shootings in the last couple of days. A kid murdered his grandmother. It did not affect thousands of people in a heavily populated urban area. It did not cause hundreds to run for their lives in terror.

It ended up in the newspaper as a murder story.
 
2012-12-11 09:17:06 PM  
Now that there's a mobile version of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, you can play the mall missions in an actual mall without actually shooting anybody. Was that not good enough for this clown?
 
2012-12-11 09:17:21 PM  
Kit Fister: Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.


------------------


Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Snakebite anti-venom? How about a tourniquet? 20 batteries in each size? A personal flotation device?

You're not worried about ANY eventuality if not.

As a matter of fact, I keep pretty much everything needed to survive here in MI in my truck, from a fire extinguisher to a tool box to spare blankets and winter accessories to a corpsman's medkit.

Plus a grab bag with the essentials.



-------------------------

Ok then. You enjoy yourself, you sound like a perfectly normal person. Make sure you keep plenty of tinfoil in your warwagon there, Sparky.
 
2012-12-11 09:18:38 PM  

Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop


Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.
 
2012-12-11 09:19:04 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.


Won't you think of all the bolt-action shootouts like in Speed Racer episodes?
 
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