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(KPTV Portland) NewsFlash Live coverage of a mall shooting in the Portland suburb of Clackamas. Early reports of two people dead   (kptv.com) divider line 883
    More: NewsFlash, Clackamas, suspicious death, milwaukie, David Blaine, child rape, age of consents, political scandal, suburbs  
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9946 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 7:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-11 08:46:12 PM
shiat, heard about this just before I left work. One of my buddies works in the Shutterbug there on occasion...

Hope he hadn't traded shifts with someone at his usual shop today.
 
2012-12-11 08:46:56 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?


I would.

I'm not saying I'd live through it but I'd engage a shooter. I consider it a duty if I have a permit and am armed.
 
2012-12-11 08:46:58 PM
Just catching up on the talking points so far...


"I know plenty of CCW owners and all of them are slack-jawed cowboys who cant wait to shoot black people"

"The Aurora and giffords incidents werent prevented by a CCW so nobody ever uses firearms for protection"

"If you own guns, you must be compensating for a small penis"

"If only we could just put people before a board and decide if they are allowed to own firearms, all of this would be solved"

Did I miss any?
 
2012-12-11 08:47:45 PM

o5iiawah: Did I miss any?


I love the smell of commerce in the morning.
 
2012-12-11 08:47:53 PM
I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.
 
2012-12-11 08:47:53 PM
Was the perp a football player?
 
2012-12-11 08:48:47 PM

SlothB77: Was the perp a football player?


Jesus *Christ*, man! There's just some things you don't talk about in public!
 
2012-12-11 08:49:02 PM
Okay, I'm sick of hearing all about it on the news. Move on to something more interesting please.

/lives a few miles south of said mall
 
2012-12-11 08:49:04 PM

OregonVet: So is the mall going to reopen in the morning? This is important.


www.mint.com
WHY ARE YOU CLOSED!!!! WHY!!!!!! WHY!
 
2012-12-11 08:49:08 PM
News is now saying the shooter killed himself. Im n0t too far away from there, shopped there a couple days ago.
 
2012-12-11 08:49:21 PM
Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero.

I guess you don't know many red necks or yahoos then. Doesn't mean they don't exist. They are in fact pretty numerous. A while back there was a story in my hometown of a guy getting kicked out of a bar and coming back with a gun. The other patrons of the bar all pulled weapons as well. There were >50 guns going off and ~400 rounds fired. There were thousands of $ in damages and the only injuries were from broken glass. Yes, everyone missed on every shot. Yes, the bar owner sued the shooters for damages to his bar.

I'm not anti-gun. I won a S&W myself. However there are places that you go where they don't belong and places where they do. If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer. If she has to walk in a dangerous area for work or something then yes, that is a good time to carry it. Any time you have crowds is a bad time for walking around armed. If there is a shooting and you have your gun out, witnesses/police may mistake you for the shooter and you risk getting shot yourself.
 
2012-12-11 08:49:23 PM
Seeing as my wife is home late from xmas shopping and she forgot her cell phone, I'm a bit worried.
 
2012-12-11 08:49:51 PM
There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?
 
2012-12-11 08:50:02 PM

phaseolus: epyonyx: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

[journalists guide.jpg]

/oblig


I'm not new to Fark, and I can appreciate tasteless humor as much as anyone (I laughed at some examples earlier in this thread), but that stupid graphic stopped being funny five shootings ago if you ask me.

It wasn't really all that funny to begin with. Everyone has a right to their own nerdy obsessions, but y'know what? Guns all look alike to me. I'm not interested in them, so my eyes glaze over and I don't pay that much attention to them. They might as well be pokemon or something. I expect about a hundred million other Americans are the same way, so I give journalists a little slack if they don't have a few hundred firearms' identifying characteristics memorized.

I'm probably overthinking this, but every time that stupid picture shows up it makes me think that the poster believes that the tragedy of lost lives is outweighed by the tragedy that too many journalists don't have a nerdy gun obsession, and I find that kind of abhorrent. I'm really starting to hate that stupid picture.


That's not what it's about. It's not about gun minutia obsessions, it's about how the media sensationalizes everything, such that a guy with an Airsoft gun is walking around carrying the latest and greatest black full-auto killing machine. It's not that they have to know the difference between a Glock and anything else, but that they don't need to make stuff up.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:09 PM

Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.


A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:11 PM

Somacandra: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?



Oblig TMW #2

I'm a fan of firearms myself, but I agree along with Mr. Tomorrow: I don't understand why bullets are available for purchase over the Internet and Sudafed is not. There is something profoundly wrong with that. Bullets are as deadly as Meth.


When's the last time you saw someone suck dick to get more bullets?
 
2012-12-11 08:50:20 PM

CraicBaby: vygramul: CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.

Most of these assholes aren't. Or they use sub-optimal weapons and accessories.

He supposedly fired at least 60 rounds, too. So yeah, probably a combination of inexperience, shiatty weaponry & shiatty accessories.


I once heard a German WWII vet say that he wasn't very jealous of the M-1 because it encouraged spray-and-pray. He said their bolt-actions incentivized aiming. He's probably over-stating it, but there's probably an element of truth in it. Same is true with these idiots who carry an assault rifle and 100-round mags thinking they can be Charlie Sheen in Hot Shots Part Deux. Instead, they're one of the bad guys in Hot Shots, emptying their belt-fed quad-.50s and only kill the comic relief.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, a CHP isn't a instant hero or bad guy stopper card. It just gives you another option. Personally I doubt I'd have the cojones to draw down on a gunman if he wasn't directly threatening myself of my family. I'd hope I would be able to take that shot and be successful, but just being real about it, I'd likely grab my family and bolt. But if I happen to be in the line of fire, or the target itself, at least with a gun I have a fighting chance.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:25 PM

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


Until they mount their guns on a bike. Then we're done for.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:29 PM

CrackpipeCardozo: How much you want to bet there was more than one person carrying their concealed weapon this afternoon at the mall? Hell, I'd wager to guess that there were 2+ firearms in the Aurora theater that night i ...


In addition to the above comment on your trollbait post, if they were carrying concealed in those places, they were likely doing so in violation of state law, so to draw and fire would be to commit a crime, no matter if lives were saved.

Malls are often defense-free zones. Let's inject some uncertainty.

There really is something to the statement that an armed society is a polite society.

See Switzerland's murder rate. . . .
 
2012-12-11 08:50:45 PM

o5iiawah: Nobody rose up and "saved the day" because there was probably no shot. You have to be able to identify your target, prove it is a threat and be cognizant of what is beyond it. it is possible that in a pitch-black theater with a 105dB movie on during a shooting scene, with smoke in the air, screams and shots coming from an unknown direction that if there was a CCW in the crowd, he probably decided that he would only exacerbate the situation had he drawn and fired.


Exactly my point: all of the bleating about concealed carry bans at private establishments are pretty much farking worthless. The vast majority of legal firearm owners have approximately 1 butthole's worth of experience dealing with high intensity firearm situations, and a responsible firearm owner isn't going risk using their weapon to stop a spree shooter; ERGO . . . you know where this is going.

o5iiawah: Know how i know you've never spent one minute of your life at a range or talking to a firearms instructor?


Couldn't get my concealed carry license without spending time at a range or talking to firearms instructors, but by all means continue shiatting your pants.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:50 PM

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


Homicide with rifles -- of which much maligned "assault weapons" are a smaller subset -- are very uncommon; in any year, more individuals are murdered with unarmed attacks than are murdered with use of rifles.

Such reality, however, will not deter dishonest civilian disarmament advocates from claiming, falsely, that rifles such as the AR-15 serve no civilian purpose despite their demonstrable popular use for hunting and for target shooting.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:58 PM
Colorado theater shooter, 11 dead. Arizona shooter 9 dead. These guys fired guns in ideal conditions... unarmed, unsuspecting civilian crowds. Between the two of them 20 dead.

This guy in Korea, nearly bested them by a factor of 10 with GASOLINE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire

Hell, even those Japanese cultists did better than the shooters (but again, not nearly as well as the guy with gasoline)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway

So, the Koreans and Japanese don't have crazy people shooting them....but they got crazy people killing them all the same. If they'd allowed more guns, it looks like they'd be safer. At least the body count would go down.
 
2012-12-11 08:51:08 PM

Bathia_Mapes: knowless: Not surprised, hope i didn't know the shooter. You all remember that Oregon basically started the school shooting trend right? Kips still in lockup.


No, not really.  There were several well known & publicized school shootings before Kip Kinkel.  Pearl, Mississippi and Jonesboro, Arkansas, for example.


San Diego January 1979 - Brenda Ann Spencer.
The song "I don't like Mondays" was inspired by her 'schoolwork'.
 
2012-12-11 08:51:12 PM

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


This
 
2012-12-11 08:51:45 PM

jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?



Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not. 
 
2012-12-11 08:52:02 PM

NotARocketScientist: If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer


Ah yes, blame the victim. I was waiting for that one.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:11 PM

jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Because one person had the ability to make hundreds run for their lives in terror.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:16 PM

o5iiawah: Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.

A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.


Actual data is of no relevance to the cause of civilian disarmament.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:18 PM

someonelse: beta_plus: beerbaron: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?

Hey man, at this point liberals want responsible free speech legislation after that hateful youtube video caused the people of benghazi to spontaneously murder our Ambassador by shelling him with mortars they just happened to be carrying around.

Lol, Benghazi.

Seriously, that poor chicken.


LOL! Liberals believing in freedom! Cracks me up everytime.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:18 PM

dittybopper: Somacandra: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

[i.imgur.com image 670x618]

Oblig #1

Actually, quite a number: Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics.


Your link suggests tackling shooters works. You could wear body armor instead of carrying a gun if you want to protect others.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:53 PM

Dimensio: vygramul: Report that his gun jammed.

Prediction: if he used an assault rifle, and it jammed, the magazine was large-capacity.

As such, civilian disarmament advocacy organizations will again demand imposition of a "large-capacity" magazine ban (where "large capacity" is dishonestly defined as any magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds of ammunition), so that homicidal mass shooters will be forced to rely upon more reliable magazines that are less likely to jam and thus allow them to continue causing harm uninterrupted.


Yes, but then they'll have banned everything else, so they'll say they tried to play by "our" rules and ban assault rifles again, in reality meaning bayonets, and just irritate the rest of us.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:53 PM
everyone should drive tank.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:14 PM
The last complete ban on concealed carry in the US has been struck down...Link
 
2012-12-11 08:53:27 PM
Good opportunity to shoplift.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:43 PM

Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.


Well, I have no respect for people with no shopping agenda.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:50 PM
Santa put a plug in that he'll be back at the mall tomorrow.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:55 PM

Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.


So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?
 
2012-12-11 08:54:14 PM

LeglessDog: Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.


No. Most criminals have a friend buy the weapon for them in exchange for money or drugs legally.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:16 PM
Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."
 
2012-12-11 08:54:17 PM

farkmedown: In addition to the above comment on your trollbait post, if they were carrying concealed in those places, they were likely doing so in violation of state law, so to draw and fire would be to commit a crime, no matter if lives were saved.


Only if the establishment stated it doesn't allow concealed firearms.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:19 PM
neongoats: Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.



------------------


They're usually the obnoxious ones too, who like to drive aggressively and escalate situations.

See the poster above who related his story about having a knife pulled on him in a movie theater. Instead of going to the manager and letting him handle the problem in the theater he is responsible for, our friend told a total stranger to STFU and was so scandalized by the response that he cannot go see a movie now without taking his gun with him. I live right next to an idiot like this, his entire political outlook can be understood just by reading the stickers on his truck. He's jumped out of his truck on people here a couple of times, when they motion for him to slow down. Instead of realizing he's speeding down his own damned street with kids on it and taking responsibility for his actions, he will instead jump out, all ready to throw down. Idiot.

And based on the other 2A fanatics I have known, that seems to be a theme.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:33 PM

Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.


If there was, we'd have pretty good data on how to go about conducting an attack on a mall. Might be instructional.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:34 PM
Correction. They Aren't looking for a Bronco, It's an Explorer.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:36 PM

NotARocketScientist: Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero.

I guess you don't know many red necks or yahoos then. Doesn't mean they don't exist. They are in fact pretty numerous. A while back there was a story in my hometown of a guy getting kicked out of a bar and coming back with a gun. The other patrons of the bar all pulled weapons as well. There were >50 guns going off and ~400 rounds fired. There were thousands of $ in damages and the only injuries were from broken glass. Yes, everyone missed on every shot. Yes, the bar owner sued the shooters for damages to his bar.

I'm not anti-gun. I won a S&W myself. However there are places that you go where they don't belong and places where they do. If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer. If she has to walk in a dangerous area for work or something then yes, that is a good time to carry it. Any time you have crowds is a bad time for walking around armed. If there is a shooting and you have your gun out, witnesses/police may mistake you for the shooter and you risk getting shot yourself.


Because in a bad situation, my first thought is about whether I'll be mistaken for be shooter. if I have a shot and I have no other choice, I'm taking it. I'll gladly go to prison if it means I saved even one life from an asshole out to shoot a place up.

Also, yes, avoidance and deescalation are better than drawing and shooting by a fair bit
 
2012-12-11 08:55:14 PM

BalugaJoe: everyone should drive tank.


I call dibs on the StuG.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:37 PM
Omarion is safe.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:41 PM

CraicBaby: Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."


I wonder if this means that the two killed were actually the targets (done at close range), and everything else was a last minute joyride before the shooter offed themselves.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:45 PM

jaylectricity: So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?


The guy in the Easter bunny suit kicked his ass.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:46 PM

DubtodaIll: I've never really understood the fear of guns. I don't know if this is true for everyone, but I had a friend in school who was completely anti-gun. He wanted to do drastic things like invent a time machine and go un-invent the gun and stuff like that or whatever. Anyway, we convinced him to go to a gun range with us and actually fire a weapon, as he had never actually used a gun before. He loved it, he had so much fun in fact, he now does recreational pistol shooting in a league and stuff.
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against guns have never actually used one to learn how freaking amazing they are. Though I do feel a return to swords and hand to hand combat would do wonders for civil society.


Heh...my old roommate was like that. He was scared of them. But he kept talking to me about it and eventually wanted to try it out. So i took him to a range and shot some rounds out of a nine. After his very first shot he was hooked. It was kind of funny because he was a bit disappointed though. I guess he expected this thunderous boom and to be knocked on his ass. I told him that if he really wants to go redneck i could get a 10-gauge and we could have some fun...
 
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