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(KPTV Portland) NewsFlash Live coverage of a mall shooting in the Portland suburb of Clackamas. Early reports of two people dead   (kptv.com) divider line 883
    More: NewsFlash, Clackamas, suspicious death, milwaukie, David Blaine, child rape, age of consents, political scandal, suburbs  
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9952 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 7:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-11 08:27:42 PM  
Were they playing this on the PA at the time?

As someone already pointed out, there was a sign saying that no guns were allowed in the mall. So that's a reason why no one returned fire this time.

Of course - because it couldn't have been that there were a lot of innocent people running around who could be hit, or a lot of expensive property damage that you'd be responsible for, if you miss, or that the average person can't hit the broad side of a barn at 15 feet. Lets get a lot of people who are cranked on adrenalin opening up trying to be the hero. There is a reason guns are not allowed at the mall.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:46 PM  

spidermilk: AdolfOliverPanties: I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.

Exactly. But seriously, how many people saw the man with the assault rifle in body armor and a hockey mask jogging through the mall. How many people could have tackled him or hit him with the closet large object? Nobody did that, I have a hard time believing that somebody would have shot him before he started shooting.


From the reports he entered the mall, screamed "I am the shooter!" and opened fire. Not much chance to tackle him first. Maybe in the parking lot, but there are reports of people shot in the parking lot as well. Maybe they tried to tackle him.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:46 PM  
Too bad Portlanders are all a bunch of pussy liberals, an armed Real American(TM) could've taken down the suspect with one shot without a chance of accidentally hitting the panicking customers running about.

/should be pretty OBVIOUS that was sarcasm
//Not pro- or anti-gun. I own one but think it would be incredibly irresponsible to pull it out in a crowded, enclosed space like a mall.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:52 PM  
A shooting in Portland, OR you say?

blastr.com

If it's a wessen, they're on the case. 

/going to Hell
//kidding aside, heart goes out to victims.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:58 PM  
He was forming a well regulated militia
 
2012-12-11 08:28:05 PM  

GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun


Aurora shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society

Giffords shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society.

So, better laws and programs in place to help mental health in this country and stop the dangerous people?
 
2012-12-11 08:28:19 PM  

ronaprhys: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

People use legally acquired items for illegal purposes all the time. How would that matter? What you're attempting to assume is that had there been no legal firearms available that these shootings wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately for you, that's patently false. Too many firearms exist, they're too easy to manufacture, etc. It's a practical impossibility to ban and remove all firearms.

You're also attempting to make life significantly harder for millions and millions of people who legally own and use firearms. Dick move, that.


I like how your attack on my comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:25 PM  

duffblue: Why is the National Guard there?


For the BLOCKBUSTER CHRISTMAS SALE ALL THIS WEEK AT OLD NAVY silly.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:25 PM  

Old Man Winter: I cannot takes this too seriously until I find out if Clackamas is a real place name or not.



It is.  Named after the Clackamas Indian tribe.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Indians
 
2012-12-11 08:28:33 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.


do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:36 PM  
Thing full of bullets.
Clip?
Magazine?
Rounds?
Shells?
 
2012-12-11 08:28:50 PM  
Clackamas. Clackamas. Clackamas.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:50 PM  
How awful.

I used to go to that mall every month or two when I lived in Oregon.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:55 PM  

Tarl3k: some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.

but, but, if you outlawguns, only outlaws will have guns!!!!111ELEVENTY!!! It isn't possible to completely eliminate guns from a culture!!!! oh wait - Link


From the link:

"To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years."

We have almost the same process here in Australia, though we are allowed any firearms other than semi/automatics.

I like it. It's a tiny imposition considering the harm that firearms are capable of wreaking.

/firearm owner
 
2012-12-11 08:29:21 PM  
All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.
 
2012-12-11 08:29:25 PM  

Kit Fister: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

Aurora shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society

Giffords shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society.

So, better laws and programs in place to help mental health in this country and stop the dangerous people?


SOCIALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISM!1
 
2012-12-11 08:29:58 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Guess you're also not a fan of Dinsaur Comics. Sad, really, because those are awesome.

Somacandra: Cause its funny. Like Archer.


Eh, I'm indifferent to webcomics every which way. I would respond by saying "I could understand if the point of the single-image webcomic was to parody crappy webcomics", but I'm sure they've actually done that. From the perspective of a casual reader, I'm hardly in on that joke, though.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:16 PM  

GAT_00: ronaprhys: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

People use legally acquired items for illegal purposes all the time. How would that matter? What you're attempting to assume is that had there been no legal firearms available that these shootings wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately for you, that's patently false. Too many firearms exist, they're too easy to manufacture, etc. It's a practical impossibility to ban and remove all firearms.

You're also attempting to make life significantly harder for millions and millions of people who legally own and use firearms. Dick move, that.

I like how your attack on my comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.


I like how your comment was completely useless and had nothing to do with the guy's comment you were responding to.

Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here. You come in an take any opportunity like this to try and prove your failed position.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:24 PM  
It was the terrible gun that made the shooter do it. It has mind control properties that the evil lizard people put in it.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:47 PM  

vudukungfu: Thing full of bullets.
Clip?
Magazine?
Rounds?
Shells?


Victim.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:53 PM  

Gleeman: How many people could he have stabbed in the same amount of time?


CTC food court at just shy of 4pm?

Probably a solid twenty. Wouldn't have missed so much. Also, people in Clackamas don't move very quick...except for the tweakers. It's like playing L4D with only Hunters and Boomers.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:57 PM  

I should be in the kitchen: Too bad Portlanders are all a bunch of pussy liberals, an armed Real American(TM) could've taken down the suspect with one shot without a chance of accidentally hitting the panicking customers running about.

/should be pretty OBVIOUS that was sarcasm
//Not pro- or anti-gun. I own one but think it would be incredibly irresponsible to pull it out in a crowded, enclosed space like a mall.


I know you were joking, but more Portlanders with CCW than I've met anywhere else I've spent time. It's really, really easy to get one as long as you don't apply in Multnomah County.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:27 PM  

FlyingJ: Decked out in camo & a hockey mask? I'm betting he doesn't play for the Winterhawks


Drinking coffee in a suburban Seattle mall getting ready to watch the Thunderbirds, so I got a kick.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:31 PM  
Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:39 PM  

fusillade762: cameroncrazy1984: That place can not exist.

It does. And it's rather close to my house. About 20 miles or so.


We're all praying for you.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:57 PM  

someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.


Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.
 
2012-12-11 08:32:08 PM  

Kit Fister: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

Aurora shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society

Giffords shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society.

So, better laws and programs in place to help mental health in this country and stop the dangerous people?


This could not be more true.


"Oh but he was such a nice and quiet boy."
 
2012-12-11 08:32:11 PM  

ghare: Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.


BalugaJoe: Republicans support this.


Never let a body count hinder your right to troll the crap out of a thread. When you're on the wrong side of an issue just troll.
 
2012-12-11 08:32:17 PM  
The cookie stand is not part of the food court!!!111!!!1
 
2012-12-11 08:32:24 PM  
Picture from inside the mall. Not graphic, but could be disturbing.

Link
 
2012-12-11 08:32:25 PM  

beerbaron: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?


Hey man, at this point liberals want responsible free speech legislation after that hateful youtube video caused the people of benghazi to spontaneously murder our Ambassador by shelling him with mortars they just happened to be carrying around.
 
2012-12-11 08:32:52 PM  

ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.


Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

thismodernworld.com 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:08 PM  

davidphogan: spidermilk: AdolfOliverPanties: I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.

Exactly. But seriously, how many people saw the man with the assault rifle in body armor and a hockey mask jogging through the mall. How many people could have tackled him or hit him with the closet large object? Nobody did that, I have a hard time believing that somebody would have shot him before he started shooting.

From the reports he entered the mall, screamed "I am the shooter!" and opened fire. Not much chance to tackle him first. Maybe in the parking lot, but there are reports of people shot in the parking lot as well. Maybe they tried to tackle him.


There was also a report that he dropped a bag of ammo in the parking lot.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:13 PM  

Fark It: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Something tells me you're not too familiar with the type of licensing and regulations that are required of gun retailers in this country...


They'll get over it.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:14 PM  

CraicBaby: All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.


Whitemask? Racist!
 
2012-12-11 08:33:48 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The obvious answer is that the killers, rarely lacking in intelligence but always lacking in humanity, note that firearms are banned where they plan to kill their victims, thus providing a lot of helpless targets. You see, when there are signs posted that state that firearms are not permitted, law-abiding citizens tend to obey them, being law-abiding and all, and they tell the shooters that they are good to go at their leisure. So there's your answer: nobody stops it because they don't have the means thanks to laws that provide nothing more than the illusion of safety.

Note that nobody tries this shiat at gun shops. Just saying.


That, or it could be the fact that spree shootings work best with a high concentration of people in confined area.

CSB time: I had some drunk teenager pull a knife on me in the middle of some movie a couple of years ago. Saturday afternoon, semi-crowded theater, and this white trash piece of shiat was in the back just blathering on about some hog-beast he porked the night before. I finally had enough and told him to (more or less) shut the fark up because we didn't pay $8 to listen to him talk about his routine bad decisions. Mother farker pulled a knife out and tried to hop over the row of seats separating us, but he tripped up and fell over seats, knife falling out of his hands and slid across the floor. Ever since then, I've carried my Sig into the theater, and guess what? That theater proudly displays its "No Firearms" sign right out front, but I'll be goddamned if I'm caught off guard with some asshole again. I know with absolute certainty that I'm not the only person in this country who says "fark it" to concealed bans, but I'll never get caught because I'm responsible with my firearm and actually conceal it.

How much you want to bet there was more than one person carrying their concealed weapon this afternoon at the mall? Hell, I'd wager to guess that there were 2+ firearms in the Aurora theater that night in July, but nobody rose up and saved the day. Loudmouthed gun owners are hands down some of the biggest pussies I know.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:48 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.


Question: how many mass shootings are caused by illegal guns?
 
2012-12-11 08:34:53 PM  
Build memorial park!
 
2012-12-11 08:34:54 PM  

TommyymmoT: Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.


Huh, I missed that.
 
2012-12-11 08:34:58 PM  

NotARocketScientist: Of course - because it couldn't have been that there were a lot of innocent people running around who could be hit, or a lot of expensive property damage that you'd be responsible for, if you miss, or that the average person can't hit the broad side of a barn at 15 feet. Lets get a lot of people who are cranked on adrenalin opening up trying to be the hero. There is a reason guns are not allowed at the mall.


Property is negligible. I doubt an individual would be sued for destroying a wine glass display at Crate and Barrel. Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero. Most will tell you that in instances like this, it is difficult to get a shot if the shooter is in the middle of the food court and people are scrambling. That still is not a good enough reason for not wanting the Wife to be armed in case some goon is hiding under her car when she's walking back from the store with a handfull of shopping bags, or if there's a sexual predator in the bathroom.

Anti-gunners point to the Giffords shooting and the individual who drew his weapon as an example why guns dont prevent crime like this while failing to realize that by his own admission, he hadn't been 100% sure of his target and wasn't 100% sure he had a clean shot with nobody else around.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:06 PM  
Way, way, way, way too close to Christmas to have a conversation about gun control.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:10 PM  

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

[thismodernworld.com image 720x672] 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


Okay, outline a plan to remove firearms from the criminal populace.

We'll wait.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:17 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.


Wow. You're building your own personal army of straw men, aren't you.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:20 PM  

MayoSlather: Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.

So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.


That's clearly not his argument, but I feel the need to respond because for all I know you might actually be serious. And then someone on the internet would be WRONG.

There were roughly 8000 gun related homicides in the US in 2004 (the most recent year for which I found stuff easily). The National Institutes of Justice collect data on the motivations behind crime, including homicides. That year, the NIJ says that 94.4 of all gun homicides were gang related, which means that only 448 of those homicides were non-gang related. I don't know how many of those 448 homicides are random killings, and how many can be explained otherwise (crimes of passion and other motivations).

Even if you assume that there will be 448 random gun-related killings in America (which is assuredly a gross overestimate, if Wikipedia's page on spree killers is any indication), that's still a pretty astonishingly small number for a country as large as the USA. It puts it roughly on par (in terms of relative danger) as things like death by lightning, falling icicles, choking on a hot dog, and the like. It's orders of magnitude less of a risk than things like getting hit by a drunk driver or someone who is texting while driving.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:43 PM  

Kuroshin: Combustion: Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.

WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.

Wrong. Clack used to have an ice rink, where Tanya Harding practiced regularly.

/met her once
//what a coont


What was the rest of her like?
 
2012-12-11 08:35:45 PM  
Two dead, plus the shooter.
 
2012-12-11 08:36:03 PM  

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

[thismodernworld.com image 720x672] 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


So we make guns illegal and mass murders go away?
 
2012-12-11 08:36:36 PM  

davidphogan: TommyymmoT: Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.

Huh, I missed that.


It's a Bronco.
 
2012-12-11 08:36:38 PM  
News Report: they've closed the mall
 
2012-12-11 08:36:56 PM  

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop
 
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