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(KPTV Portland) NewsFlash Live coverage of a mall shooting in the Portland suburb of Clackamas. Early reports of two people dead   (kptv.com) divider line 883
    More: NewsFlash, Clackamas, suspicious death, milwaukie, David Blaine, child rape, age of consents, political scandal, suburbs  
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9949 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 7:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Archived thread
 
2012-12-11 07:16:39 PM
Who would shoot a mall?
 
2012-12-11 07:19:07 PM
That place can not exist.
 
2012-12-11 07:22:52 PM
Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.
 
2012-12-11 07:24:01 PM

cameroncrazy1984: That place can not exist.


It does. And it's rather close to my house. About 20 miles or so.
 
2012-12-11 07:27:11 PM
Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?
 
2012-12-11 07:28:37 PM

gopher321: Who would shoot a mall?


Maybe it was a gun mall
 
2012-12-11 07:30:35 PM
What a horrible thing to happen when people were just trying to celebrate the birth of Clacka.
 
2012-12-11 07:43:50 PM
God, guns and guts.
 
2012-12-11 07:45:27 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this will be evidence that everyone on the internet has always been correct about whatever their opinion on guns is.
 
2012-12-11 07:48:56 PM
 
2012-12-11 07:49:47 PM

NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.


2.bp.blogspot.com

/oblig
 
2012-12-11 07:50:03 PM
c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com
 
2012-12-11 07:50:06 PM
was it an ironic gun??
 
2012-12-11 07:50:13 PM

aimtastic: What a horrible thing to happen when people were just trying to celebrate the birth of Clacka.


I was just about to make an inappropriate and ill-timed joke about the War on Clackamas, but I see it would be redundant.
 
2012-12-11 07:50:14 PM
Heh. Merry Clackamas!
 
2012-12-11 07:50:28 PM
Clackamas, more like Clackamassacre.


amirite?
 
2012-12-11 07:50:30 PM
Ah, Clackamas Town Center. The "Town Center" is a mall. There's an Olive Garden and everything.
 
2012-12-11 07:50:48 PM
As someone who works in retail and wants Christmas shoppers dead, I will point out that this is not the way to go about things.

/Snark aside, stay safe Portland people
 
2012-12-11 07:50:49 PM
for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.
 
2012-12-11 07:50:56 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.
 
2012-12-11 07:50:58 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Not if you're Bob Costas.
 
2012-12-11 07:51:04 PM
Malls in the month of December are rage inducing...
 
2012-12-11 07:51:05 PM

NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.


I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.
 
2012-12-11 07:51:12 PM
Is it too early for Portlandia jokes?
 
2012-12-11 07:51:17 PM
I have been informed that Bi-Mart is the place for Christmas savings.
 
2012-12-11 07:51:48 PM
Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?
 
2012-12-11 07:51:49 PM
 
2012-12-11 07:52:05 PM
Live coverage brought to you by Bi-Mart, where everyone is a switch-hitter.

/Pray this doesn't get any worse than it's already been reported.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:12 PM
Somebody really wanted that Wii U.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:38 PM

davidphogan: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.


Considering the accuracy rate of the local media, that means it was likely an Airsoft pistol.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:44 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:47 PM
Clackamas is a county, not a suburb. Once it gets annexed, it will be part of Milwaukie.

Xtreme food fight. Pity the link isn't to a local website, katu needs the exposure.

//Yes, I do shop there occasionally.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:48 PM

Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?


Two dead, for to seven more confirmed shot.
 
2012-12-11 07:52:49 PM
msnbc says shooter "neutralized."
 
2012-12-11 07:52:50 PM
He snapped when someone wished him Merry Clackamas for the 10,000th time.
 
2012-12-11 07:53:10 PM
Clacka died for your sins.
 
2012-12-11 07:53:12 PM
The shooter is "neutralized" according the local police. That's an awesome phrase.

Reminder: Pray for Omarion.


/subby
 
2012-12-11 07:53:12 PM

They're right, you know. Now is not the time to talk about gun control. The time to talk about gun control was Yesterday. #Portland

- Josiah Bartlet (@Pres_Bartlet) December 12, 2012
 
2012-12-11 07:53:42 PM

Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?


That depends. Did someone SHOOT THEM to cause the accident?

No?

Then, no.

Accidents happen. Shootings in a mall are news.
 
2012-12-11 07:53:48 PM
I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.
 
2012-12-11 07:53:57 PM
Save us, Bob Costas! Save us...
 
2012-12-11 07:54:01 PM
For gods sakes people, if your going to go on a killing spree, use a farking sword, or a flamethrower at least! Every farking time you shoot a gun the rest of us have to hear the farking whining for weeks and frankly thats worse than any family deaths.
 
2012-12-11 07:54:01 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Some tweets.



I don't care how I die, so long as "I'm stuck in the back room of build a bear!" are not my last words to the world.
 
2012-12-11 07:54:07 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?

moops: Ah, Clackamas Town Center. The "Town Center" is a mall. There's an Olive Garden and everything.


Olive Garden? It was a mercy killing.
 
2012-12-11 07:54:13 PM

ronaprhys: davidphogan: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.

Considering the accuracy rate of the local media, that means it was likely an Airsoft pistol.


I was mostly impressed he knew what an ar15 is.
 
2012-12-11 07:54:18 PM

NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.


Funny
 
2012-12-11 07:54:29 PM
Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers HAS been approved.

/This mall has EVERYTHING
 
2012-12-11 07:54:37 PM

ronaprhys: davidphogan: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.

Considering the accuracy rate of the local media, that means it was likely an Airsoft pistol.



One person is confirmed dead. 
 
2012-12-11 07:54:49 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.
 
2012-12-11 07:55:04 PM
Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.
 
2012-12-11 07:55:19 PM
Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.
 
2012-12-11 07:55:25 PM
Mall shootings are so over.
 
2012-12-11 07:55:34 PM
I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.
 
2012-12-11 07:55:54 PM
Wasn't me.
 
2012-12-11 07:56:12 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Some tweets.


I don't care how I die, so long as "I'm stuck in the back room of build a bear!" are not my last words to the world.


Better than being stuck with Bubba the bear who is trying to enter your "back room".
 
2012-12-11 07:56:39 PM

WhoIsWillo: They're right, you know. Now is not the time to talk about gun control. The time to talk about gun control was Yesterday. #Portland- Josiah Bartlet (@Pres_Bartlet) December 12, 2012


i52.tinypic.com

They lost, Ernesto.
 
2012-12-11 07:56:46 PM

Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.


thatsracist.jpg
 
2012-12-11 07:56:49 PM

Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.


Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?
 
2012-12-11 07:56:49 PM

some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.


We actually have laws against criminals, kids and crazy people having guns. It's almost as if people who are out to commit murder don't care about breaking the gun laws. Weird.

/waiting to see if this is drug/gang related
//yes, even in Portland.
 
2012-12-11 07:56:55 PM

Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.


So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.
 
2012-12-11 07:56:59 PM
Thoughts, prayers, tragedy, etc.
 
2012-12-11 07:57:07 PM
Wonderful time of year for a slay ride
 
2012-12-11 07:57:09 PM

Bathia_Mapes: ronaprhys: davidphogan: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.

Considering the accuracy rate of the local media, that means it was likely an Airsoft pistol.


One person is confirmed dead.


How does that change the general inaccuracy of reporters with regards to firearms, especially around breaking news?
 
2012-12-11 07:57:10 PM
http://www.katu.com/news/live if you want a direct feed.
 
2012-12-11 07:57:11 PM
as a cranky redneck I have no problem with guns

can we please try harder to keep 'em out of the hands of whackjobs?
 
2012-12-11 07:57:17 PM

NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

images.miretail.com
inside.nike.com
 
2012-12-11 07:57:32 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: msnbc says shooter "neutralized."


i.imgur.com

That's not helpful. It took place in the food court. The shooter could have been using any one of these products, possibly in combination. 

/yeah I'm an asshole
/good thoughts for the traumatized
 
2012-12-11 07:57:56 PM

Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.


Shoot apparently was wearing body armor...

/Portlander
//Never go to sketchy Clackamas
 
2012-12-11 07:58:26 PM
Kid and grand kid live in Portland, puts a lump in one's throat.
 
2012-12-11 07:58:39 PM

ronaprhys: Bathia_Mapes: ronaprhys: davidphogan: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.

Considering the accuracy rate of the local media, that means it was likely an Airsoft pistol.


One person is confirmed dead.

How does that change the general inaccuracy of reporters with regards to firearms, especially around breaking news?



It was several witnesses that described the gun.  The reporters were just passing on what the witnesses said.
 
2012-12-11 07:58:39 PM
One of the victims' names is Gary.
Here is his pic:
t2.gstatic.com
Rip
 
2012-12-11 07:58:42 PM

some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.


but, but, if you outlawguns, only outlaws will have guns!!!!111ELEVENTY!!! It isn't possible to completely eliminate guns from a culture!!!! oh wait - Link
 
2012-12-11 07:58:45 PM
Yikes.
 
2012-12-11 07:58:58 PM

MayoSlather: Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.

So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.


wonderful strawman. well played.
 
2012-12-11 07:59:12 PM
clancifer


Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Not at all. Can we have a rider that bans murder?
 
2012-12-11 07:59:15 PM

beerbaron: Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?


He said "responsible gun legislation," not "confiscation of any and all firearms"
 
2012-12-11 07:59:17 PM
2012: The Year Everyone Got Shot
 
2012-12-11 07:59:21 PM

MayoSlather: So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.


No, my argument is that people who want to ban guns aren't able to comprehend how silly their arguments are due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

We have a prohibition on arming criminals in America. We make sure non-criminals can arm themselves.
 
2012-12-11 07:59:26 PM
They're OK.
 
2012-12-11 07:59:50 PM

Somacandra: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: msnbc says shooter "neutralized."

[i.imgur.com image 425x333]

That's not helpful. It took place in the food court. The shooter could have been using any one of these products, possibly in combination. 

/yeah I'm an asshole
/good thoughts for the traumatized


oh what a relief it is!

chexydecimal.com
 
2012-12-11 08:00:05 PM
The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:14 PM
meh, "And I am sure that I never read any memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers in the winter - we never need read of another. One is enough. If you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad instances and applications? To a philosopher all news, as it is called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over their tea." -Thoreau
 
2012-12-11 08:00:19 PM

Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.


I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:24 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?


There have been several instances where people do. (Frequently it doesn't become news because once the second guy pulls a gun the would-be criminal decides to go elsewhere and leaves suddenly without shooting anyone.)

Funny thing that.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:32 PM

Bathia_Mapes: ronaprhys: Bathia_Mapes: ronaprhys: davidphogan: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

I keep hearing assault rifle, nothing more specific yet. Reporter just said AR15.

Considering the accuracy rate of the local media, that means it was likely an Airsoft pistol.


One person is confirmed dead.

How does that change the general inaccuracy of reporters with regards to firearms, especially around breaking news?


It was several witnesses that described the gun.  The reporters were just passing on what the witnesses said.


Also the discarded magazine found on the floor. That was from the earliest reports.

/now it's just twitter streams filled with prayers. Really helpful.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:32 PM
So how would chucklefark here do this with a knife, as is the cute bullshiat false comparison? I wish I had that Tom Tomorrow strip handy.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:35 PM

BeerGraduate: One of the victims' names is Gary.
Here is his pic:
[t2.gstatic.com image 145x161]
Rip


Gary don't shop!
 
2012-12-11 08:00:46 PM
Hot lead is the new coal.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:50 PM

Bathia_Mapes: It was several witnesses that described the gun.  The reporters were just passing on what the witnesses said.


And when I actually see pictures of the firearm, I'll see if that's correct. Until then, I'm going to wait for actual confirmed facts. Too much derp occurs right after these things.
 
2012-12-11 08:00:57 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


*Live in the year 2012*
*Still believe that criminals obey laws*
 
2012-12-11 08:01:19 PM
Oh, this shiat again. Let's hope the death toll doesn't rise. Right around Clackmus too, gok damn.
 
2012-12-11 08:01:26 PM

cuzsis: some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.

We actually have laws against criminals, kids and crazy people having guns. It's almost as if people who are out to commit murder don't care about breaking the gun laws. Weird.

/waiting to see if this is drug/gang related
//yes, even in Portland.


Gang-related would make more sense at Lloyd Center.
 
2012-12-11 08:01:32 PM

lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.


Ha!

Take care over there. I used to live over there too.
 
2012-12-11 08:01:58 PM

MrKoon: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

Shoot apparently was wearing body armor...

/Portlander
//Never go to sketchy Clackamas


I'd guess it wasn't Kevlar but more likely a tactical vest, like the Colorado movie shooter.
 
2012-12-11 08:02:23 PM
The shooter was neutralized by La Fours.
img171.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-11 08:02:39 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-11 08:02:56 PM

signaljammer: Kid and grand kid live in Portland, puts a lump in one's throat.


Mom, Dad, Brother, Sister, Brother in law, two nieces and a nephew all live in Portland.

Hope no one was shopping at Clackytown.
 
2012-12-11 08:03:15 PM

Tarl3k: but, but, if you outlawguns, only outlaws will have guns!!!!111ELEVENTY!!! It isn't possible to completely eliminate guns from a culture!!!! oh wait - Link


Japan: A culture that when a disaster struck and many were left homeless and hungry there was little crime and virtually no looting.

America: A 20% sale will cause people to stomp octogenarians to death and then sue the store for making them do it.
 
2012-12-11 08:03:15 PM
the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.
 
2012-12-11 08:03:27 PM

Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.


i.imgur.com

Oblig #1
 
2012-12-11 08:03:41 PM
i.imgur.com

Yay morbid fascination!

/Virtuosity
 
2012-12-11 08:04:02 PM
Yikes! Used to live over there and have an ex who has yet to respond to an SMS sent out a couple moments ago. Scary stuff.

/area is known as Felony Flats if I recall correctly
 
2012-12-11 08:04:15 PM

Fista-Phobia: [c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com image 500x281]


Hey! Fox Newz learned how to count to five!
 
2012-12-11 08:04:18 PM

lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.


Glad you're okay. Did you hear/see any of it?

Apparently the shooter screamed, "I'm the shooter" before opening fire.
 
2012-12-11 08:04:57 PM

lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.



Glad you're okay. 
 
2012-12-11 08:05:04 PM
www.washingtonpost.com
 
2012-12-11 08:05:20 PM

Somacandra: i.imgur.com

Oblig #1


What exactly is the point of writing a webcomic if you just use the same picture over and over?
 
2012-12-11 08:05:25 PM
In before 500 comments saying this is because of pussy libs and gun control.
 
2012-12-11 08:05:30 PM
What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?
 
2012-12-11 08:05:36 PM
www.troll.me
 
2012-12-11 08:05:37 PM

KhamanV: So how would chucklefark here do this with a knife, as is the cute bullshiat false comparison? I wish I had that Tom Tomorrow strip handy.


um, this guy managed to kill 8 people with a knife. wouldn't that make a knife more dangerous?

Link
 
2012-12-11 08:05:50 PM

lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.


Are You real???
 
2012-12-11 08:05:54 PM

Mike_LowELL: Somacandra: i.imgur.com

Oblig #1

What exactly is the point of writing a webcomic if you just use the same picture over and over?


Guess you're also not a fan of Dinsaur Comics. Sad, really, because those are awesome.
 
2012-12-11 08:06:13 PM
Oh, Paul Blart II?

/electric boogaloo....
 
2012-12-11 08:06:15 PM
link fail
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044368750457756451282640 6 388.html
 
2012-12-11 08:06:20 PM

lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.


Glad you're okay!
 
2012-12-11 08:06:32 PM
I'd run, too if I was in Fuego.
 
2012-12-11 08:06:40 PM

ronaprhys: MayoSlather: Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.

So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.

wonderful strawman. well played.


I liked it.
 
2012-12-11 08:07:03 PM

wildcardjack: www.troll.me


In Clackamas there's little to no chance it was a hipster.
 
2012-12-11 08:07:08 PM

Mrbogey: MayoSlather: So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.

No, my argument is that people who want to ban guns aren't able to comprehend how silly their arguments are due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

We have a prohibition on arming criminals in America. We make sure non-criminals can arm themselves.


I thought it was the Kruger-Brent Effect

// obscure
 
2012-12-11 08:07:16 PM

Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.


WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.
 
2012-12-11 08:07:20 PM

cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


Link

Mass shootings are statistically rare though.
 
2012-12-11 08:07:27 PM
More likely than a good citizen with a gun taking out a random shooter or assassin before he can do heavy damage, I think we'll see a story in some area with a lot of conceal carry where 3 people try to play heroes, all end up shooting each other out of their confusion and inability to process the situation beyond thinking "this is it, this is my moment to prove why I've been doing this!" and then the actual gunman gets away.

Naturally the loss of life would be sad, but it'd be one of the more productive losses of life in terms of proving points.
 
2012-12-11 08:07:56 PM

davidphogan: lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.

Glad you're okay. Did you hear/see any of it?

Apparently the shooter screamed, "I'm the shooter" before opening fire.


I was downstairs at Macy's. I didn't see anything but heard the gunshots and ran with some people into a store.
 
2012-12-11 08:08:16 PM
Should have gone to Lloyd Center
 
2012-12-11 08:08:37 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


i.imgur.com

Oblig TMW #2

I'm a fan of firearms myself, but I agree along with Mr. Tomorrow: I don't understand why bullets are available for purchase over the Internet and Sudafed is not. There is something profoundly wrong with that. Bullets are as deadly as Meth.
 
2012-12-11 08:08:38 PM

Combustion: Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.

WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.


There used to be an ice rink in Clackamas TC as well. It closed in 2005-2006.
 
2012-12-11 08:08:55 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Never after a senseless mass shooting. Since there's one or two a week, well the problem just takes care of itself
 
2012-12-11 08:09:00 PM

MrKoon: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

Shoot apparently was wearing body armor...

/Portlander
//Never go to sketchy Clackamas


It's not a video game, even wearing body armor you're gonna hurt taking a shot in the armor. A broken rib, possible internal injuries.

cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


As someone already pointed out, there was a sign saying that no guns were allowed in the mall. So that's a reason why no one returned fire this time. Though a bigger reason why is that we have law after law after law preventing where law abiding citizens can legally carry fire arms, creating areas where criminals can carry weapons knowing full well that no one can legally shoot back at them. Make the gun control laws as simple as "No one who is a felon or has documented mental illnesses can even attempt to purchase/carry/own a firearm" and then we can allow law abiding citizens to defend themselves without fear of legal reprisal. Because honestly, I'm sure a few people in that mall tonight were wishing that of all the times to have a gun to defend themselves, tonight was that night.

The biggest problem with gun control laws is that it assumes criminals follow the laws.
 
2012-12-11 08:09:17 PM

Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?


Or his parents suspected something was wrong with him but didn't say anything.
 
2012-12-11 08:09:30 PM
It's funny because I'm buying a house five miles from there.
 
2012-12-11 08:09:43 PM

Mike_LowELL: What exactly is the point of writing a webcomic if you just use the same picture over and over?


Cause its funny. Like Archer.
 
2012-12-11 08:09:43 PM

Mrbogey: cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.

Link

Mass shootings are statistically rare though.

http://gunssavelives.net/

looks legit........
 
2012-12-11 08:10:09 PM

Somacandra: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

[i.imgur.com image 670x618]

Oblig #1


I typically like his comics, but that one really had to stretch.
 
2012-12-11 08:10:33 PM

Mrbogey: cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.

Link

Mass shootings are statistically rare though.


Here's another (a robbery this time).

Link
 
2012-12-11 08:11:02 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


Internet NRA tough guys are probably busy pushing children out of the way to escape
 
2012-12-11 08:11:04 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Guess you're also not a fan of Dinsaur Comics. Sad, really, because those are awesome.


They are, but I don't know any about guns. Of course, if I was a dinosaur I'd just eat the shooter and the gun. So it doesn't matter, really.
 
2012-12-11 08:11:15 PM
Better yet, Costas (getting his material from another writer) will blame malls.
 
2012-12-11 08:11:33 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: msnbc says shooter "neutralized."


They took him to the vet?
 
2012-12-11 08:11:43 PM
If everyone in the mall had been packing heat, the death toll would have been much lower.
 
2012-12-11 08:11:55 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.
 
2012-12-11 08:12:02 PM
His daughter wanted that pink castle thing.
 
2012-12-11 08:12:14 PM
FFS, how many of these incidents do there have to be before someone in Washington finally bans malls?
 
2012-12-11 08:12:29 PM

Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?


What tipped you off? Was it the hockey mask?
 
2012-12-11 08:13:00 PM

Somacandra: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

[i.imgur.com image 720x672]

Oblig TMW #2

I'm a fan of firearms myself, but I agree along with Mr. Tomorrow: I don't understand why bullets are available for purchase over the Internet and Sudafed is not. There is something profoundly wrong with that. Bullets are as deadly as Meth.


You can use multiple bullets for range practice etc. Nobody has a cold requiring several boxes of Sudafed? Seems kinda absurd to compare the two. Mr. Tomorrow is really reaching on this subject matter and he looks like a jackass.
 
2012-12-11 08:13:02 PM

Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.


Neither do I. At least not that one. As long as the place is not designated "no carry" by statute--the worse they can do is throw me out--and that's if anyone ever saw it. But no way I'm going to a mall during the holidays without mine.
 
2012-12-11 08:13:11 PM
In Clackamas no one can hear you tweet.
 
2012-12-11 08:13:16 PM

Pharacyde: Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.


I feel more like I do now than I did before.
 
2012-12-11 08:13:16 PM
Gak, mass shootings in mall food courts. Could be in Toronto and see that crapola.

Probably not as gang related as ours was though, more like a lone crazy than a stupid gangsta with very bad aim. We had a few gangstas with terrible aim in our neck of the woods this year.

At any rate, sounds very scary for those around.
 
2012-12-11 08:13:52 PM
Keep it real Southeast Portland!
 
2012-12-11 08:14:24 PM

fusillade762: Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?

What tipped you off? Was it the hockey mask?


No, it was the desire to go to a mall during the holiday season...
 
2012-12-11 08:14:27 PM

Great Janitor: As someone already pointed out, there was a sign saying that no guns were allowed in the mall.


I think you misread that. CTC has never had signs like that that I have seen. Someone else mentioned their local mall doesn't allow them.
 
2012-12-11 08:14:49 PM

BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.


And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.
 
2012-12-11 08:15:18 PM

fusillade762: Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?

What tipped you off? Was it the hockey mask?


Apparently the shooter yelled, "I'm the shooter!" as he walked into the mall.
 
2012-12-11 08:15:27 PM

Mrbogey: Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?


For those actually curious...

Murder rates by country, according to the UN
 
2012-12-11 08:15:32 PM

lvl0rg4n: The Eclipse in the theater parking lot is me! Not able to leave yet. Biggest accomplishment of the day: not pissing my pants during a shooting. I didn't get to buy my boots either.


Don't listen to him,here's from a 4n Org who sees victory between two walls.
 
2012-12-11 08:15:35 PM
content.internetvideoarchive.com
I have a dream most nights. It starts on a playground. There's kids swinging, laughing, dogs barking, butterflies just flapping their little wings. And then you hear a rumbling, and over the horizon comes a black cloud and it's made of cancer and pus. And it starts sweeping over the playground and everyone starts screaming and clawing their eyes and pulling at their hair, and saying "Help! What do we do?" And you know what happens next? Out steps me wielding the biggest farking shotgun you've ever seen in your whole life. And you know what I do? I blow every farking thing away. And I am getting God's work done. When it's all over and the dust has settled, the whole world gathers below me and they say, "Thank you, Ronnie, thank you for helping, being a great man and doing this for us." And you know what I say? "You don't need to thank me. I'm just a guy with a gun. I'm just a cop."
www.moviewiseguys.com 
Neutralized.
 
2012-12-11 08:15:35 PM
Police scanner says they're currently looking for his accomplice.
 
2012-12-11 08:16:09 PM

cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


The obvious answer is that the killers, rarely lacking in intelligence but always lacking in humanity, note that firearms are banned where they plan to kill their victims, thus providing a lot of helpless targets. You see, when there are signs posted that state that firearms are not permitted, law-abiding citizens tend to obey them, being law-abiding and all, and they tell the shooters that they are good to go at their leisure. So there's your answer: nobody stops it because they don't have the means thanks to laws that provide nothing more than the illusion of safety.

Note that nobody tries this shiat at gun shops. Just saying.
 
2012-12-11 08:16:27 PM

TommyymmoT: Police scanner says they're currently looking for his accomplice.


Awww shait
 
2012-12-11 08:17:12 PM
MY FORK MADE ME FAT!!!!!
 
2012-12-11 08:17:49 PM

eddievercetti: TommyymmoT: Police scanner says they're currently looking for his accomplice.

Awww shait


They've been sweeping the mall for two hours believing there are other shooters. No witnesses I've heard have mentioned more than one, just sounds like people gave different descriptions for the same guy. Some said Guy Fawkes mask, some said hockey, and at least one said it was a paintball mask.
 
2012-12-11 08:17:59 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.
 
2012-12-11 08:18:02 PM

dukeblue219: Mrbogey: Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

For those actually curious...

Murder rates by country, according to the UN


Believe violent crime was what they were talking about with that post, not murder rates.
 
2012-12-11 08:18:12 PM

Kit Fister: What's the over/under on finding out the guy has mental health issues and/or was already suspected to be a danger to himself or others by some psychiatrist?


On the first part, 100%. A mentally stable person does not shoot up a mall under any circumstance.

On the second part, who knows?

It's another sad shooting in the U.S. and these types of shootings will be a recurring theme until we collectively decide to have a culture shift. Until then, my only advice is don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
2012-12-11 08:18:34 PM

o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.


The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun
 
2012-12-11 08:18:44 PM

davidphogan: eddievercetti: TommyymmoT: Police scanner says they're currently looking for his accomplice.

Awww shait

They've been sweeping the mall for two hours believing there are other shooters. No witnesses I've heard have mentioned more than one, just sounds like people gave different descriptions for the same guy. Some said Guy Fawkes mask, some said hockey, and at least one said it was a paintball mask.


So Jason Vorhees got out Camp Crystal Lake?
 
2012-12-11 08:18:57 PM
How many people could he have stabbed in the same amount of time?
 
2012-12-11 08:19:37 PM
....Dad?


/wouldn't be surprised
 
2012-12-11 08:20:00 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Note that nobody tries this shiat at gun shops. Just saying


Yeah. At gun shops, they just accidentally kill their own children.
 
2012-12-11 08:20:03 PM

GRCooper: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: msnbc says shooter "neutralized."

They took him to the vet?


They sprayed him with enzymatic cleaner.
 
2012-12-11 08:20:17 PM

BeerGraduate: One of the victims' names is Gary.
Here is his pic:

Rip


I used to be a Gary, but then I took a sharp knee to the ... wait, nevermind, I'm still a Gary

/f'realz
 
2012-12-11 08:20:38 PM
BREAKING: They just found the first machine gun clip
 
2012-12-11 08:20:42 PM
Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.
 
2012-12-11 08:20:55 PM
Probably more NFL Players.
 
2012-12-11 08:21:04 PM
Granted you can't grow guns, but with nearly 300 million in private hands in the US, they aren't going anywhere.

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-11 08:21:04 PM

davidphogan: eddievercetti: TommyymmoT: Police scanner says they're currently looking for his accomplice.

Awww shait

They've been sweeping the mall for two hours believing there are other shooters. No witnesses I've heard have mentioned more than one, just sounds like people gave different descriptions for the same guy. Some said Guy Fawkes mask, some said hockey, and at least one said it was a paintball mask.


They gave out a description of the alleged accomplice.
Black, 17, 5'10" male.
 
2012-12-11 08:21:12 PM

Somacandra: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

[i.imgur.com image 670x618]

Oblig #1


Actually, quite a number: Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics.
 
2012-12-11 08:21:17 PM
I cannot takes this too seriously until I find out if Clackamas is a real place name or not.
 
2012-12-11 08:21:19 PM

Combustion: Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.

WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.


Wrong. Clack used to have an ice rink, where Tanya Harding practiced regularly.

/met her once
//what a coont
 
2012-12-11 08:21:29 PM
If I still lived in Oregon I'd probably have been at that mall tonight.

Tuesdays were my "visit the Apple Store" night, even thought I worked for a reseller.
 
2012-12-11 08:22:02 PM

dukeblue219: Mrbogey: Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

For those actually curious...

Murder rates by country, according to the UN


wow, hong kong with only 17 murders, always kinda wanted to live there
 
2012-12-11 08:22:08 PM

ghare: Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.


Dude... shut the fark up.
 
2012-12-11 08:22:14 PM

dukeblue219: For those actually curious...

Murder rates by country, according to the UN


Someone says violent crime... you say murder. Move that goalpost.

orclover: Mrbogey: cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.

Link

Mass shootings are statistically rare though.
http://gunssavelives.net/

looks legit........


The news was real. It was simply the first link to the story.
 
2012-12-11 08:22:25 PM

someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.


Something tells me you're not too familiar with the type of licensing and regulations that are required of gun retailers in this country...
 
2012-12-11 08:22:25 PM

cameroncrazy1984: I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


it probably doesn't occur to you that of the hundreds of thousands of incidents each year where firearms are used to defend life and property, it is reasonable to believe that a mass shooting such as this is prevented by deterrence and the elimination of the threat before things get ugly. Jack Bauer doesn't swing into action at the mall, sprint through crowds running the opposite direction, duck behind a trash can and double-tap the perp in the head.

Shame that in an instance like this, all the police can do is pick up spent casings and fill out paperwork.
 
2012-12-11 08:22:29 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.


Exactly. But seriously, how many people saw the man with the assault rifle in body armor and a hockey mask jogging through the mall. How many people could have tackled him or hit him with the closet large object? Nobody did that, I have a hard time believing that somebody would have shot him before he started shooting.
 
2012-12-11 08:23:04 PM
Republicans support this.
 
2012-12-11 08:23:21 PM
Has anyone yet ascertained whether the shooter was a Democrat who voted for 0bama?

/because you know, there is no such thing as a violent Republican
 
2012-12-11 08:23:43 PM

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.


I'm going to be honest here: I don't give a shiat what the rest of the world thinks. If you don't live here and understand our culture and values, then your opinion on us and what we do doesn't count. I don't come to your country, pick something you like and tell you that it's bad and so forth.

Yeah, we gun owners are sad when had shiat happens. But we're not any more sad than home brewers are at drunk driving fatalities.

People do bad shiat. But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals. And I'll be damned if I say "yes, let's ban guns on the off chance that it might stop one or two incidents out of the thousands of murders a year."

You want to stop violence? Find a way to fix the human race. Until then, stop blaming inanimate objects for the failure of mankind.
 
2012-12-11 08:23:47 PM

GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun


People use legally acquired items for illegal purposes all the time. How would that matter? What you're attempting to assume is that had there been no legal firearms available that these shootings wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately for you, that's patently false. Too many firearms exist, they're too easy to manufacture, etc. It's a practical impossibility to ban and remove all firearms.

You're also attempting to make life significantly harder for millions and millions of people who legally own and use firearms. Dick move, that.
 
2012-12-11 08:23:56 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Pharacyde: Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

I feel more like I do now than I did before.


Are you quoting Yogi Berra or just channeling him?
 
2012-12-11 08:24:20 PM

ghare: Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.


Amen, brother.
 
2012-12-11 08:25:12 PM

aimtastic: What a horrible thing to happen when people were just trying to celebrate the birth of Clacka.


i94.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 08:25:43 PM
Why is the National Guard there?
 
2012-12-11 08:26:28 PM

Old Man Winter: I cannot takes this too seriously until I find out if Clackamas is a real place name or not.


It's a county. We have plenty of odd county names out here.
 
2012-12-11 08:26:45 PM
Scanner:
Mall is swept. Announce to anybody left, come out with your hands up".
 
2012-12-11 08:26:48 PM
Decked out in camo & a hockey mask? I'm betting he doesn't play for the Winterhawks
 
2012-12-11 08:27:08 PM

duffblue: Why is the National Guard there?


In case of college students.
They're murder.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:17 PM

duffblue: Why is the National Guard there?


Mrs. Field's Cookies.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:42 PM
Were they playing this on the PA at the time?

As someone already pointed out, there was a sign saying that no guns were allowed in the mall. So that's a reason why no one returned fire this time.

Of course - because it couldn't have been that there were a lot of innocent people running around who could be hit, or a lot of expensive property damage that you'd be responsible for, if you miss, or that the average person can't hit the broad side of a barn at 15 feet. Lets get a lot of people who are cranked on adrenalin opening up trying to be the hero. There is a reason guns are not allowed at the mall.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:46 PM

spidermilk: AdolfOliverPanties: I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.

Exactly. But seriously, how many people saw the man with the assault rifle in body armor and a hockey mask jogging through the mall. How many people could have tackled him or hit him with the closet large object? Nobody did that, I have a hard time believing that somebody would have shot him before he started shooting.


From the reports he entered the mall, screamed "I am the shooter!" and opened fire. Not much chance to tackle him first. Maybe in the parking lot, but there are reports of people shot in the parking lot as well. Maybe they tried to tackle him.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:46 PM
Too bad Portlanders are all a bunch of pussy liberals, an armed Real American(TM) could've taken down the suspect with one shot without a chance of accidentally hitting the panicking customers running about.

/should be pretty OBVIOUS that was sarcasm
//Not pro- or anti-gun. I own one but think it would be incredibly irresponsible to pull it out in a crowded, enclosed space like a mall.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:52 PM
A shooting in Portland, OR you say?

blastr.com

If it's a wessen, they're on the case. 

/going to Hell
//kidding aside, heart goes out to victims.
 
2012-12-11 08:27:58 PM
He was forming a well regulated militia
 
2012-12-11 08:28:05 PM

GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun


Aurora shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society

Giffords shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society.

So, better laws and programs in place to help mental health in this country and stop the dangerous people?
 
2012-12-11 08:28:19 PM

ronaprhys: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

People use legally acquired items for illegal purposes all the time. How would that matter? What you're attempting to assume is that had there been no legal firearms available that these shootings wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately for you, that's patently false. Too many firearms exist, they're too easy to manufacture, etc. It's a practical impossibility to ban and remove all firearms.

You're also attempting to make life significantly harder for millions and millions of people who legally own and use firearms. Dick move, that.


I like how your attack on my comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:25 PM

duffblue: Why is the National Guard there?


For the BLOCKBUSTER CHRISTMAS SALE ALL THIS WEEK AT OLD NAVY silly.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:25 PM

Old Man Winter: I cannot takes this too seriously until I find out if Clackamas is a real place name or not.



It is.  Named after the Clackamas Indian tribe.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Indians
 
2012-12-11 08:28:33 PM

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.


do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:36 PM
Thing full of bullets.
Clip?
Magazine?
Rounds?
Shells?
 
2012-12-11 08:28:50 PM
Clackamas. Clackamas. Clackamas.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:50 PM
How awful.

I used to go to that mall every month or two when I lived in Oregon.
 
2012-12-11 08:28:55 PM

Tarl3k: some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.

but, but, if you outlawguns, only outlaws will have guns!!!!111ELEVENTY!!! It isn't possible to completely eliminate guns from a culture!!!! oh wait - Link


From the link:

"To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years."

We have almost the same process here in Australia, though we are allowed any firearms other than semi/automatics.

I like it. It's a tiny imposition considering the harm that firearms are capable of wreaking.

/firearm owner
 
2012-12-11 08:29:21 PM
All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.
 
2012-12-11 08:29:25 PM

Kit Fister: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

Aurora shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society

Giffords shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society.

So, better laws and programs in place to help mental health in this country and stop the dangerous people?


SOCIALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISM!1
 
2012-12-11 08:29:58 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Guess you're also not a fan of Dinsaur Comics. Sad, really, because those are awesome.

Somacandra: Cause its funny. Like Archer.


Eh, I'm indifferent to webcomics every which way. I would respond by saying "I could understand if the point of the single-image webcomic was to parody crappy webcomics", but I'm sure they've actually done that. From the perspective of a casual reader, I'm hardly in on that joke, though.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:16 PM

GAT_00: ronaprhys: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

People use legally acquired items for illegal purposes all the time. How would that matter? What you're attempting to assume is that had there been no legal firearms available that these shootings wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately for you, that's patently false. Too many firearms exist, they're too easy to manufacture, etc. It's a practical impossibility to ban and remove all firearms.

You're also attempting to make life significantly harder for millions and millions of people who legally own and use firearms. Dick move, that.

I like how your attack on my comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.


I like how your comment was completely useless and had nothing to do with the guy's comment you were responding to.

Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here. You come in an take any opportunity like this to try and prove your failed position.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:24 PM
It was the terrible gun that made the shooter do it. It has mind control properties that the evil lizard people put in it.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:47 PM

vudukungfu: Thing full of bullets.
Clip?
Magazine?
Rounds?
Shells?


Victim.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:53 PM

Gleeman: How many people could he have stabbed in the same amount of time?


CTC food court at just shy of 4pm?

Probably a solid twenty. Wouldn't have missed so much. Also, people in Clackamas don't move very quick...except for the tweakers. It's like playing L4D with only Hunters and Boomers.
 
2012-12-11 08:30:57 PM

I should be in the kitchen: Too bad Portlanders are all a bunch of pussy liberals, an armed Real American(TM) could've taken down the suspect with one shot without a chance of accidentally hitting the panicking customers running about.

/should be pretty OBVIOUS that was sarcasm
//Not pro- or anti-gun. I own one but think it would be incredibly irresponsible to pull it out in a crowded, enclosed space like a mall.


I know you were joking, but more Portlanders with CCW than I've met anywhere else I've spent time. It's really, really easy to get one as long as you don't apply in Multnomah County.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:27 PM

FlyingJ: Decked out in camo & a hockey mask? I'm betting he doesn't play for the Winterhawks


Drinking coffee in a suburban Seattle mall getting ready to watch the Thunderbirds, so I got a kick.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:31 PM
Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:39 PM

fusillade762: cameroncrazy1984: That place can not exist.

It does. And it's rather close to my house. About 20 miles or so.


We're all praying for you.
 
2012-12-11 08:31:57 PM

someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.


Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.
 
2012-12-11 08:32:08 PM

Kit Fister: GAT_00: o5iiawah: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

We should adopt Mexico's Gun laws, where there's only one place where they can be legally purchased, a store run by the military where you pretty much have to know someone to be allowed in to look around. There's never any gun crime there.

The Aurora shooting: legal guns. Congresswoman Giffords: legal gun

Aurora shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society

Giffords shooting: previously diagnosed mental illness and marked as a danger to society.

So, better laws and programs in place to help mental health in this country and stop the dangerous people?


This could not be more true.


"Oh but he was such a nice and quiet boy."
 
2012-12-11 08:32:11 PM

ghare: Thanks to those dead and wounded and their families and loved ones for their sacrifices to the Second Amendment. The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots, after all.


BalugaJoe: Republicans support this.


Never let a body count hinder your right to troll the crap out of a thread. When you're on the wrong side of an issue just troll.
 
2012-12-11 08:32:17 PM
The cookie stand is not part of the food court!!!111!!!1
 
2012-12-11 08:32:24 PM
Picture from inside the mall. Not graphic, but could be disturbing.

Link
 
2012-12-11 08:32:25 PM

beerbaron: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?


Hey man, at this point liberals want responsible free speech legislation after that hateful youtube video caused the people of benghazi to spontaneously murder our Ambassador by shelling him with mortars they just happened to be carrying around.
 
2012-12-11 08:32:52 PM

ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.


Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

thismodernworld.com 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:08 PM

davidphogan: spidermilk: AdolfOliverPanties: I have friends and even some family members who will say this could have been avoided or ended quickly if there were more people carrying weapons in the mall.

Exactly. But seriously, how many people saw the man with the assault rifle in body armor and a hockey mask jogging through the mall. How many people could have tackled him or hit him with the closet large object? Nobody did that, I have a hard time believing that somebody would have shot him before he started shooting.

From the reports he entered the mall, screamed "I am the shooter!" and opened fire. Not much chance to tackle him first. Maybe in the parking lot, but there are reports of people shot in the parking lot as well. Maybe they tried to tackle him.


There was also a report that he dropped a bag of ammo in the parking lot.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:13 PM

Fark It: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Something tells me you're not too familiar with the type of licensing and regulations that are required of gun retailers in this country...


They'll get over it.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:14 PM

CraicBaby: All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.


Whitemask? Racist!
 
2012-12-11 08:33:48 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The obvious answer is that the killers, rarely lacking in intelligence but always lacking in humanity, note that firearms are banned where they plan to kill their victims, thus providing a lot of helpless targets. You see, when there are signs posted that state that firearms are not permitted, law-abiding citizens tend to obey them, being law-abiding and all, and they tell the shooters that they are good to go at their leisure. So there's your answer: nobody stops it because they don't have the means thanks to laws that provide nothing more than the illusion of safety.

Note that nobody tries this shiat at gun shops. Just saying.


That, or it could be the fact that spree shootings work best with a high concentration of people in confined area.

CSB time: I had some drunk teenager pull a knife on me in the middle of some movie a couple of years ago. Saturday afternoon, semi-crowded theater, and this white trash piece of shiat was in the back just blathering on about some hog-beast he porked the night before. I finally had enough and told him to (more or less) shut the fark up because we didn't pay $8 to listen to him talk about his routine bad decisions. Mother farker pulled a knife out and tried to hop over the row of seats separating us, but he tripped up and fell over seats, knife falling out of his hands and slid across the floor. Ever since then, I've carried my Sig into the theater, and guess what? That theater proudly displays its "No Firearms" sign right out front, but I'll be goddamned if I'm caught off guard with some asshole again. I know with absolute certainty that I'm not the only person in this country who says "fark it" to concealed bans, but I'll never get caught because I'm responsible with my firearm and actually conceal it.

How much you want to bet there was more than one person carrying their concealed weapon this afternoon at the mall? Hell, I'd wager to guess that there were 2+ firearms in the Aurora theater that night in July, but nobody rose up and saved the day. Loudmouthed gun owners are hands down some of the biggest pussies I know.
 
2012-12-11 08:33:48 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.


Question: how many mass shootings are caused by illegal guns?
 
2012-12-11 08:34:53 PM
Build memorial park!
 
2012-12-11 08:34:54 PM

TommyymmoT: Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.


Huh, I missed that.
 
2012-12-11 08:34:58 PM

NotARocketScientist: Of course - because it couldn't have been that there were a lot of innocent people running around who could be hit, or a lot of expensive property damage that you'd be responsible for, if you miss, or that the average person can't hit the broad side of a barn at 15 feet. Lets get a lot of people who are cranked on adrenalin opening up trying to be the hero. There is a reason guns are not allowed at the mall.


Property is negligible. I doubt an individual would be sued for destroying a wine glass display at Crate and Barrel. Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero. Most will tell you that in instances like this, it is difficult to get a shot if the shooter is in the middle of the food court and people are scrambling. That still is not a good enough reason for not wanting the Wife to be armed in case some goon is hiding under her car when she's walking back from the store with a handfull of shopping bags, or if there's a sexual predator in the bathroom.

Anti-gunners point to the Giffords shooting and the individual who drew his weapon as an example why guns dont prevent crime like this while failing to realize that by his own admission, he hadn't been 100% sure of his target and wasn't 100% sure he had a clean shot with nobody else around.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:06 PM
Way, way, way, way too close to Christmas to have a conversation about gun control.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:10 PM

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

[thismodernworld.com image 720x672] 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


Okay, outline a plan to remove firearms from the criminal populace.

We'll wait.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:17 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.


Wow. You're building your own personal army of straw men, aren't you.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:20 PM

MayoSlather: Mrbogey: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

America has some of the most sensible gun laws in the world. We target behavior for prohibition and not wholesale elimination. Should we really try and mimic nations with more violent crime like Mexico and the United Kingdom by enacting harsher laws?

America has a crime problem because we have a crime culture.

So your argument is since we have such a crime culture that we might as well make sure they are properly armed.


That's clearly not his argument, but I feel the need to respond because for all I know you might actually be serious. And then someone on the internet would be WRONG.

There were roughly 8000 gun related homicides in the US in 2004 (the most recent year for which I found stuff easily). The National Institutes of Justice collect data on the motivations behind crime, including homicides. That year, the NIJ says that 94.4 of all gun homicides were gang related, which means that only 448 of those homicides were non-gang related. I don't know how many of those 448 homicides are random killings, and how many can be explained otherwise (crimes of passion and other motivations).

Even if you assume that there will be 448 random gun-related killings in America (which is assuredly a gross overestimate, if Wikipedia's page on spree killers is any indication), that's still a pretty astonishingly small number for a country as large as the USA. It puts it roughly on par (in terms of relative danger) as things like death by lightning, falling icicles, choking on a hot dog, and the like. It's orders of magnitude less of a risk than things like getting hit by a drunk driver or someone who is texting while driving.
 
2012-12-11 08:35:43 PM

Kuroshin: Combustion: Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.

WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.

Wrong. Clack used to have an ice rink, where Tanya Harding practiced regularly.

/met her once
//what a coont


What was the rest of her like?
 
2012-12-11 08:35:45 PM
Two dead, plus the shooter.
 
2012-12-11 08:36:03 PM

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

[thismodernworld.com image 720x672] 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


So we make guns illegal and mass murders go away?
 
2012-12-11 08:36:36 PM

davidphogan: TommyymmoT: Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.

Huh, I missed that.


It's a Bronco.
 
2012-12-11 08:36:38 PM
News Report: they've closed the mall
 
2012-12-11 08:36:56 PM

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop
 
2012-12-11 08:37:08 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?


Not necessarily. But at least I'd have the ability to defend myself or my family.
 
2012-12-11 08:37:20 PM

GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

[thismodernworld.com image 720x672] 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.


Mass murder is definitely worth stopping, dolt. It's just that you're suggestions will do absolutely nothing to that end. But keep throwing out your failed arguments and waiting, with baited breath, for things like this to happen again so you can act all superior.

Seriously - you fail.
 
2012-12-11 08:37:48 PM

beta_plus: beerbaron: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?

Hey man, at this point liberals want responsible free speech legislation after that hateful youtube video caused the people of benghazi to spontaneously murder our Ambassador by shelling him with mortars they just happened to be carrying around.


Lol, Benghazi.

Seriously, that poor chicken.
 
2012-12-11 08:38:06 PM

Kuroshin: Okay, outline a plan to remove firearms from the criminal populace.


Here's the problem with this line of thinking: James Holmes (to the best of my knowledge) did not become a criminal UNTIL he used his legally purchased firearms to shoot up a room full of moviegoers.
 
2012-12-11 08:38:12 PM

Kuroshin: CraicBaby: All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.

Whitemask? Racist!



Some reports said it was a hockey mask
 
2012-12-11 08:38:17 PM
The mall will be closed for a while. This will be bad for the Xmas sales season.
 
2012-12-11 08:38:21 PM
A shooting at a mall in Portland, Ore., on Tuesday afternoon left multiple dead and wounded, according to Lt. James Rhodes

What good is the War Machine or Iron Patriot armor if the motherfarker isn't even going to have it with him?
 
2012-12-11 08:38:22 PM

ronaprhys: Seriously - you fail.


Maybe he's calmed down, we'll talk about it reasonably.
 
2012-12-11 08:38:24 PM
Shooter is dead.
 
2012-12-11 08:38:40 PM
In other new Best Korea just fired a long range rocket.
 
2012-12-11 08:38:42 PM
targeted Santa Claus? lol! wtf is this an infomercial?
 
2012-12-11 08:39:08 PM

moops: Ah, Clackamas Town Center. The "Town Center" is a mall. There's an Olive Garden and everything.


I've been to OG twice. I'd rather have a farking steamed hot dog in a soggy bun.
 
2012-12-11 08:39:12 PM

epyonyx: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

[journalists guide.jpg]

/oblig



I'm not new to Fark, and I can appreciate tasteless humor as much as anyone (I laughed at some examples earlier in this thread), but that stupid graphic stopped being funny five shootings ago if you ask me.

It wasn't really all that funny to begin with. Everyone has a right to their own nerdy obsessions, but y'know what? Guns all look alike to me. I'm not interested in them, so my eyes glaze over and I don't pay that much attention to them. They might as well be pokemon or something. I expect about a hundred million other Americans are the same way, so I give journalists a little slack if they don't have a few hundred firearms' identifying characteristics memorized.

I'm probably overthinking this, but every time that stupid picture shows up it makes me think that the poster believes that the tragedy of lost lives is outweighed by the tragedy that too many journalists don't have a nerdy gun obsession, and I find that kind of abhorrent. I'm really starting to hate that stupid picture.
 
2012-12-11 08:39:22 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Lt. Cheese Weasel: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.

Question: how many mass shootings are caused by illegal guns?


Dunno, what's the present body count of cartel members and soldiers in Mexico, where legal ownership is practically illegal?
 
2012-12-11 08:39:27 PM
Guns don't kill people, people do, and if you say that maybe not everyone should be able to get a gun anytime they want for any reason, I'll shoot you.
 
2012-12-11 08:39:29 PM
Not surprised, hope i didn't know the shooter. You all remember that Oregon basically started the school shooting trend right? Kips still in lockup.
 
2012-12-11 08:39:54 PM
And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.
 
2012-12-11 08:39:55 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Sure, because the shooter totally pays attention to laws against murder. I'm sure he'll pay attention to gun laws.
 
2012-12-11 08:40:16 PM

CraicBaby: Shooter is dead.


Adventure, excitement... a Jedi craves not these things
 
2012-12-11 08:40:22 PM

CraicBaby: Shooter is dead.



Figured as much.  "Neutralized" is pretty much a code word for "dead". 
 
2012-12-11 08:40:26 PM
I think somebody got mad because their President is black.
 
2012-12-11 08:40:35 PM
Interesting press conference. No details past that no extra shooters, shooter died after police got there, three dead (counting the shooter.)
 
2012-12-11 08:40:59 PM
I don't really think more gun control can really ever help situations like this. I don't think less can either. Do you ever think how bad the massacre might be if we didn't let the crazies shoot up the place with their guns?

As dangerous as a gunshot wound is, it's nothing compared to VX gas, or a McVeigh style truck bomb. Or a wound from a 6 foot long sword. Most crazy batshiat mall shooters aren't exactly crack shots.

Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.

There are some restrictions that make sense. Former military and felon for having an armed stand off with a swat team because you stopped taking your lithium? Yeah, you probably shouldn't even be permitted lighter fluid, much less a firearm.(I know this person IRL, and he still illegally owns and shoots firearms, up to and including ar15s).
 
2012-12-11 08:41:01 PM

CraicBaby: Shooter is dead.


culturemob.com

RIP Shooter
 
2012-12-11 08:41:05 PM

CrackpipeCardozo: How much you want to bet there was more than one person carrying their concealed weapon this afternoon at the mall? Hell, I'd wager to guess that there were 2+ firearms in the Aurora theater that night in July, but nobody rose up and saved the day. Loudmouthed gun owners are hands down some of the biggest pussies I know


Nobody rose up and "saved the day" because there was probably no shot. You have to be able to identify your target, prove it is a threat and be cognizant of what is beyond it. it is possible that in a pitch-black theater with a 105dB movie on during a shooting scene, with smoke in the air, screams and shots coming from an unknown direction that if there was a CCW in the crowd, he probably decided that he would only exacerbate the situation had he drawn and fired.

Know how i know you've never spent one minute of your life at a range or talking to a firearms instructor?
 
2012-12-11 08:41:08 PM
Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.
 
2012-12-11 08:41:16 PM
www.sunnewsnetwork.ca
 
2012-12-11 08:41:28 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Kuroshin: CraicBaby: All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.

Whitemask? Racist!


Some reports said it was a hockey mask


Mirrormask?
 
2012-12-11 08:42:06 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.


Or maybe it's just because you don't hear about it. Link

"At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Assam opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. Police say that after suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself."
 
2012-12-11 08:42:09 PM

CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.


Most of these assholes aren't. Or they use sub-optimal weapons and accessories.
 
2012-12-11 08:42:31 PM

GAT_00: And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.


As opposed to your failure of an idea - make it double-plus illegal to murder someone. That'll work.

Seriously - don't you ever get tired of being embarrassed in public?
 
2012-12-11 08:42:40 PM
I've never really understood the fear of guns. I don't know if this is true for everyone, but I had a friend in school who was completely anti-gun. He wanted to do drastic things like invent a time machine and go un-invent the gun and stuff like that or whatever. Anyway, we convinced him to go to a gun range with us and actually fire a weapon, as he had never actually used a gun before. He loved it, he had so much fun in fact, he now does recreational pistol shooting in a league and stuff.
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against guns have never actually used one to learn how freaking amazing they are. Though I do feel a return to swords and hand to hand combat would do wonders for civil society.
 
2012-12-11 08:42:47 PM

skinink: Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers HAS been approved.

/This mall has EVERYTHING


You are infected with awesome
 
2012-12-11 08:42:48 PM

CrackpipeCardozo: Kuroshin: Okay, outline a plan to remove firearms from the criminal populace.

Here's the problem with this line of thinking: James Holmes (to the best of my knowledge) did not become a criminal UNTIL he used his legally purchased firearms to shoot up a room full of moviegoers.


And was already declared mentally unstable and a danger. This is why better mental Health care and legal records of mental health findings being linked to NICS is a good thing.

If NICS were to flag a guy for being judged mentally unfit, presuming the psychiatrist were given the option to have the person evaluated and ruled a danger, do you think they'd e given him a gun?
 
2012-12-11 08:43:01 PM

mall ... in the Portland suburb of Clackamas


I believe Douglas Coupland called it the "Clackamas County Mall" in Generation X.
 
2012-12-11 08:43:01 PM

Insatiable Jesus: I think somebody got mad because their President is black.


There's a lot of that sentiment in Clackamas County once you get a little bit away from PDX. It's a Teabagger haven.

/Clackamas County denizen
 
2012-12-11 08:43:56 PM
Report that his gun jammed.

Prediction: if he used an assault rifle, and it jammed, the magazine was large-capacity.
 
2012-12-11 08:43:59 PM

EatenTheSun: cameroncrazy1984: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before. With the number of times it's been suggested, if it's a plausible assertion you'd think it would have happened at least once.

Or maybe it's just because you don't hear about it. Link

"At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Assam opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. Police say that after suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself."


Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.
 
2012-12-11 08:44:02 PM

Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?


Your apathy is delightful!
 
2012-12-11 08:44:02 PM
So is the mall going to reopen in the morning? This is important.
 
2012-12-11 08:44:29 PM

vygramul: CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.

Most of these assholes aren't. Or they use sub-optimal weapons and accessories.


He supposedly fired at least 60 rounds, too. So yeah, probably a combination of inexperience, shiatty weaponry & shiatty accessories.
 
2012-12-11 08:44:51 PM
This is going to forever taint Mark Twain's short story The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Clackamas County
 
2012-12-11 08:44:54 PM

GAT_00: And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.


Ignoring the calls for programs and laws that might actually help people *and*stop mass murders... I get it though, if it's not YOUR solution, it's not worth acknowledging
 
2012-12-11 08:45:08 PM
Damn, and I JUST turned in my cable box this morning.

/15 minutes from Clackamas Town Center
 
2012-12-11 08:45:09 PM

CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.


Good.
 
2012-12-11 08:45:10 PM

GAT_00: And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.


Sometimes I think the only reason you are a successful troll is because people don't look at the username they are replying to.
 
2012-12-11 08:45:32 PM

CraicBaby:

He supposedly fired at least 60 rounds, too. So yeah, probably a combination of inexperience, shiatty weaponry & shiatty accessories.


Silent Bob stole the schematics from some foolish carpenter and found a weakness just like the farking Death Star. You knock this crossbeam out and, farkin' bickety-bam, the whole stage comes crashing down.
 
2012-12-11 08:45:37 PM

knowless: Not surprised, hope i didn't know the shooter. You all remember that Oregon basically started the school shooting trend right? Kips still in lockup.



No, not really.  There were several well known & publicized school shootings before Kip Kinkel.  Pearl, Mississippi and Jonesboro, Arkansas, for example.
 
2012-12-11 08:45:45 PM

vygramul: Report that his gun jammed.

Prediction: if he used an assault rifle, and it jammed, the magazine was large-capacity.


As such, civilian disarmament advocacy organizations will again demand imposition of a "large-capacity" magazine ban (where "large capacity" is dishonestly defined as any magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds of ammunition), so that homicidal mass shooters will be forced to rely upon more reliable magazines that are less likely to jam and thus allow them to continue causing harm uninterrupted.
 
2012-12-11 08:46:09 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: mall ... in the Portland suburb of Clackamas


I believe Douglas Coupland called it the "Clackamas County Mall" in Generation X.


It's officially in Happy Valley, OR.
 
2012-12-11 08:46:12 PM
shiat, heard about this just before I left work. One of my buddies works in the Shutterbug there on occasion...

Hope he hadn't traded shifts with someone at his usual shop today.
 
2012-12-11 08:46:56 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?


I would.

I'm not saying I'd live through it but I'd engage a shooter. I consider it a duty if I have a permit and am armed.
 
2012-12-11 08:46:58 PM
Just catching up on the talking points so far...


"I know plenty of CCW owners and all of them are slack-jawed cowboys who cant wait to shoot black people"

"The Aurora and giffords incidents werent prevented by a CCW so nobody ever uses firearms for protection"

"If you own guns, you must be compensating for a small penis"

"If only we could just put people before a board and decide if they are allowed to own firearms, all of this would be solved"

Did I miss any?
 
2012-12-11 08:47:45 PM

o5iiawah: Did I miss any?


I love the smell of commerce in the morning.
 
2012-12-11 08:47:53 PM
I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.
 
2012-12-11 08:47:53 PM
Was the perp a football player?
 
2012-12-11 08:48:47 PM

SlothB77: Was the perp a football player?


Jesus *Christ*, man! There's just some things you don't talk about in public!
 
2012-12-11 08:49:02 PM
Okay, I'm sick of hearing all about it on the news. Move on to something more interesting please.

/lives a few miles south of said mall
 
2012-12-11 08:49:04 PM

OregonVet: So is the mall going to reopen in the morning? This is important.


www.mint.com
WHY ARE YOU CLOSED!!!! WHY!!!!!! WHY!
 
2012-12-11 08:49:08 PM
News is now saying the shooter killed himself. Im n0t too far away from there, shopped there a couple days ago.
 
2012-12-11 08:49:21 PM
Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero.

I guess you don't know many red necks or yahoos then. Doesn't mean they don't exist. They are in fact pretty numerous. A while back there was a story in my hometown of a guy getting kicked out of a bar and coming back with a gun. The other patrons of the bar all pulled weapons as well. There were >50 guns going off and ~400 rounds fired. There were thousands of $ in damages and the only injuries were from broken glass. Yes, everyone missed on every shot. Yes, the bar owner sued the shooters for damages to his bar.

I'm not anti-gun. I won a S&W myself. However there are places that you go where they don't belong and places where they do. If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer. If she has to walk in a dangerous area for work or something then yes, that is a good time to carry it. Any time you have crowds is a bad time for walking around armed. If there is a shooting and you have your gun out, witnesses/police may mistake you for the shooter and you risk getting shot yourself.
 
2012-12-11 08:49:23 PM
Seeing as my wife is home late from xmas shopping and she forgot her cell phone, I'm a bit worried.
 
2012-12-11 08:49:51 PM
There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?
 
2012-12-11 08:50:02 PM

phaseolus: epyonyx: NewportBarGuy: Was it a Glock or an AK-47?

/Apologies to the families of the lost and/or wounded.

[journalists guide.jpg]

/oblig


I'm not new to Fark, and I can appreciate tasteless humor as much as anyone (I laughed at some examples earlier in this thread), but that stupid graphic stopped being funny five shootings ago if you ask me.

It wasn't really all that funny to begin with. Everyone has a right to their own nerdy obsessions, but y'know what? Guns all look alike to me. I'm not interested in them, so my eyes glaze over and I don't pay that much attention to them. They might as well be pokemon or something. I expect about a hundred million other Americans are the same way, so I give journalists a little slack if they don't have a few hundred firearms' identifying characteristics memorized.

I'm probably overthinking this, but every time that stupid picture shows up it makes me think that the poster believes that the tragedy of lost lives is outweighed by the tragedy that too many journalists don't have a nerdy gun obsession, and I find that kind of abhorrent. I'm really starting to hate that stupid picture.


That's not what it's about. It's not about gun minutia obsessions, it's about how the media sensationalizes everything, such that a guy with an Airsoft gun is walking around carrying the latest and greatest black full-auto killing machine. It's not that they have to know the difference between a Glock and anything else, but that they don't need to make stuff up.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:09 PM

Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.


A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:11 PM

Somacandra: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?



Oblig TMW #2

I'm a fan of firearms myself, but I agree along with Mr. Tomorrow: I don't understand why bullets are available for purchase over the Internet and Sudafed is not. There is something profoundly wrong with that. Bullets are as deadly as Meth.


When's the last time you saw someone suck dick to get more bullets?
 
2012-12-11 08:50:20 PM

CraicBaby: vygramul: CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.

Most of these assholes aren't. Or they use sub-optimal weapons and accessories.

He supposedly fired at least 60 rounds, too. So yeah, probably a combination of inexperience, shiatty weaponry & shiatty accessories.


I once heard a German WWII vet say that he wasn't very jealous of the M-1 because it encouraged spray-and-pray. He said their bolt-actions incentivized aiming. He's probably over-stating it, but there's probably an element of truth in it. Same is true with these idiots who carry an assault rifle and 100-round mags thinking they can be Charlie Sheen in Hot Shots Part Deux. Instead, they're one of the bad guys in Hot Shots, emptying their belt-fed quad-.50s and only kill the comic relief.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, a CHP isn't a instant hero or bad guy stopper card. It just gives you another option. Personally I doubt I'd have the cojones to draw down on a gunman if he wasn't directly threatening myself of my family. I'd hope I would be able to take that shot and be successful, but just being real about it, I'd likely grab my family and bolt. But if I happen to be in the line of fire, or the target itself, at least with a gun I have a fighting chance.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:25 PM

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


Until they mount their guns on a bike. Then we're done for.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:29 PM

CrackpipeCardozo: How much you want to bet there was more than one person carrying their concealed weapon this afternoon at the mall? Hell, I'd wager to guess that there were 2+ firearms in the Aurora theater that night i ...


In addition to the above comment on your trollbait post, if they were carrying concealed in those places, they were likely doing so in violation of state law, so to draw and fire would be to commit a crime, no matter if lives were saved.

Malls are often defense-free zones. Let's inject some uncertainty.

There really is something to the statement that an armed society is a polite society.

See Switzerland's murder rate. . . .
 
2012-12-11 08:50:45 PM

o5iiawah: Nobody rose up and "saved the day" because there was probably no shot. You have to be able to identify your target, prove it is a threat and be cognizant of what is beyond it. it is possible that in a pitch-black theater with a 105dB movie on during a shooting scene, with smoke in the air, screams and shots coming from an unknown direction that if there was a CCW in the crowd, he probably decided that he would only exacerbate the situation had he drawn and fired.


Exactly my point: all of the bleating about concealed carry bans at private establishments are pretty much farking worthless. The vast majority of legal firearm owners have approximately 1 butthole's worth of experience dealing with high intensity firearm situations, and a responsible firearm owner isn't going risk using their weapon to stop a spree shooter; ERGO . . . you know where this is going.

o5iiawah: Know how i know you've never spent one minute of your life at a range or talking to a firearms instructor?


Couldn't get my concealed carry license without spending time at a range or talking to firearms instructors, but by all means continue shiatting your pants.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:50 PM

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


Homicide with rifles -- of which much maligned "assault weapons" are a smaller subset -- are very uncommon; in any year, more individuals are murdered with unarmed attacks than are murdered with use of rifles.

Such reality, however, will not deter dishonest civilian disarmament advocates from claiming, falsely, that rifles such as the AR-15 serve no civilian purpose despite their demonstrable popular use for hunting and for target shooting.
 
2012-12-11 08:50:58 PM
Colorado theater shooter, 11 dead. Arizona shooter 9 dead. These guys fired guns in ideal conditions... unarmed, unsuspecting civilian crowds. Between the two of them 20 dead.

This guy in Korea, nearly bested them by a factor of 10 with GASOLINE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire

Hell, even those Japanese cultists did better than the shooters (but again, not nearly as well as the guy with gasoline)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway

So, the Koreans and Japanese don't have crazy people shooting them....but they got crazy people killing them all the same. If they'd allowed more guns, it looks like they'd be safer. At least the body count would go down.
 
2012-12-11 08:51:08 PM

Bathia_Mapes: knowless: Not surprised, hope i didn't know the shooter. You all remember that Oregon basically started the school shooting trend right? Kips still in lockup.


No, not really.  There were several well known & publicized school shootings before Kip Kinkel.  Pearl, Mississippi and Jonesboro, Arkansas, for example.


San Diego January 1979 - Brenda Ann Spencer.
The song "I don't like Mondays" was inspired by her 'schoolwork'.
 
2012-12-11 08:51:12 PM

browser_snake: I have read, recently, in a newspaper article (which, no, I can't produce on command, sorry) that there are a shiatload more deaths caused by bicycles in America than are caused by firearms each year.

Crazy motherfarkers killing random people with guns is a very spectacular - but statistically insignificant - problem.


This
 
2012-12-11 08:51:45 PM

jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?



Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not. 
 
2012-12-11 08:52:02 PM

NotARocketScientist: If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer


Ah yes, blame the victim. I was waiting for that one.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:11 PM

jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Because one person had the ability to make hundreds run for their lives in terror.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:16 PM

o5iiawah: Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.

A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.


Actual data is of no relevance to the cause of civilian disarmament.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:18 PM

someonelse: beta_plus: beerbaron: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Exactly how would you enforce this? House to house searches?

Hey man, at this point liberals want responsible free speech legislation after that hateful youtube video caused the people of benghazi to spontaneously murder our Ambassador by shelling him with mortars they just happened to be carrying around.

Lol, Benghazi.

Seriously, that poor chicken.


LOL! Liberals believing in freedom! Cracks me up everytime.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:18 PM

dittybopper: Somacandra: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

[i.imgur.com image 670x618]

Oblig #1

Actually, quite a number: Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics.


Your link suggests tackling shooters works. You could wear body armor instead of carrying a gun if you want to protect others.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:53 PM

Dimensio: vygramul: Report that his gun jammed.

Prediction: if he used an assault rifle, and it jammed, the magazine was large-capacity.

As such, civilian disarmament advocacy organizations will again demand imposition of a "large-capacity" magazine ban (where "large capacity" is dishonestly defined as any magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds of ammunition), so that homicidal mass shooters will be forced to rely upon more reliable magazines that are less likely to jam and thus allow them to continue causing harm uninterrupted.


Yes, but then they'll have banned everything else, so they'll say they tried to play by "our" rules and ban assault rifles again, in reality meaning bayonets, and just irritate the rest of us.
 
2012-12-11 08:52:53 PM
everyone should drive tank.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:14 PM
The last complete ban on concealed carry in the US has been struck down...Link
 
2012-12-11 08:53:27 PM
Good opportunity to shoplift.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:43 PM

Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.


Well, I have no respect for people with no shopping agenda.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:50 PM
Santa put a plug in that he'll be back at the mall tomorrow.
 
2012-12-11 08:53:55 PM

Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.


So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?
 
2012-12-11 08:54:14 PM

LeglessDog: Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.


No. Most criminals have a friend buy the weapon for them in exchange for money or drugs legally.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:16 PM
Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."
 
2012-12-11 08:54:17 PM

farkmedown: In addition to the above comment on your trollbait post, if they were carrying concealed in those places, they were likely doing so in violation of state law, so to draw and fire would be to commit a crime, no matter if lives were saved.


Only if the establishment stated it doesn't allow concealed firearms.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:19 PM
neongoats: Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.



------------------


They're usually the obnoxious ones too, who like to drive aggressively and escalate situations.

See the poster above who related his story about having a knife pulled on him in a movie theater. Instead of going to the manager and letting him handle the problem in the theater he is responsible for, our friend told a total stranger to STFU and was so scandalized by the response that he cannot go see a movie now without taking his gun with him. I live right next to an idiot like this, his entire political outlook can be understood just by reading the stickers on his truck. He's jumped out of his truck on people here a couple of times, when they motion for him to slow down. Instead of realizing he's speeding down his own damned street with kids on it and taking responsibility for his actions, he will instead jump out, all ready to throw down. Idiot.

And based on the other 2A fanatics I have known, that seems to be a theme.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:33 PM

Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.


If there was, we'd have pretty good data on how to go about conducting an attack on a mall. Might be instructional.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:34 PM
Correction. They Aren't looking for a Bronco, It's an Explorer.
 
2012-12-11 08:54:36 PM

NotARocketScientist: Aside from that, one of the 3 critical rules of firearms is to know your target AND what is beyond it. I"ve been around firearms my whole life and there isn't anyone I've ever met who has a hard-on for trying to be a hero.

I guess you don't know many red necks or yahoos then. Doesn't mean they don't exist. They are in fact pretty numerous. A while back there was a story in my hometown of a guy getting kicked out of a bar and coming back with a gun. The other patrons of the bar all pulled weapons as well. There were >50 guns going off and ~400 rounds fired. There were thousands of $ in damages and the only injuries were from broken glass. Yes, everyone missed on every shot. Yes, the bar owner sued the shooters for damages to his bar.

I'm not anti-gun. I won a S&W myself. However there are places that you go where they don't belong and places where they do. If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer. If she has to walk in a dangerous area for work or something then yes, that is a good time to carry it. Any time you have crowds is a bad time for walking around armed. If there is a shooting and you have your gun out, witnesses/police may mistake you for the shooter and you risk getting shot yourself.


Because in a bad situation, my first thought is about whether I'll be mistaken for be shooter. if I have a shot and I have no other choice, I'm taking it. I'll gladly go to prison if it means I saved even one life from an asshole out to shoot a place up.

Also, yes, avoidance and deescalation are better than drawing and shooting by a fair bit
 
2012-12-11 08:55:14 PM

BalugaJoe: everyone should drive tank.


I call dibs on the StuG.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:37 PM
Omarion is safe.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:41 PM

CraicBaby: Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."


I wonder if this means that the two killed were actually the targets (done at close range), and everything else was a last minute joyride before the shooter offed themselves.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:45 PM

jaylectricity: So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?


The guy in the Easter bunny suit kicked his ass.
 
2012-12-11 08:55:46 PM

DubtodaIll: I've never really understood the fear of guns. I don't know if this is true for everyone, but I had a friend in school who was completely anti-gun. He wanted to do drastic things like invent a time machine and go un-invent the gun and stuff like that or whatever. Anyway, we convinced him to go to a gun range with us and actually fire a weapon, as he had never actually used a gun before. He loved it, he had so much fun in fact, he now does recreational pistol shooting in a league and stuff.
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against guns have never actually used one to learn how freaking amazing they are. Though I do feel a return to swords and hand to hand combat would do wonders for civil society.


Heh...my old roommate was like that. He was scared of them. But he kept talking to me about it and eventually wanted to try it out. So i took him to a range and shot some rounds out of a nine. After his very first shot he was hooked. It was kind of funny because he was a bit disappointed though. I guess he expected this thunderous boom and to be knocked on his ass. I told him that if he really wants to go redneck i could get a 10-gauge and we could have some fun...
 
2012-12-11 08:55:53 PM

Mr. Ekshun: Kuroshin: Combustion: Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.

WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.

Wrong. Clack used to have an ice rink, where Tanya Harding practiced regularly.

/met her once
//what a coont

What was the rest of her like?


Faaaaaaantastic.
 
2012-12-11 08:56:14 PM
What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?
 
2012-12-11 08:56:18 PM
Ah, just what I needed ... a convenient thread in which I can offer my new thoughts and opinions on gun control that will bring perspective to all and an end the the discussion due to my airtight argument and everyone's open-mindedness when discussing the topic - all will quickly agree with me and admit they were wrong all along.
 
2012-12-11 08:57:18 PM

jaylectricity: What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?


If the mall has a Family Dollar there may be some overlap.
 
TWX
2012-12-11 08:57:39 PM
It's Clackamas at ground zero,
There's music in the air...
The sleigh bells are ringing and the carolers are singing
while the police sirens blare...


/with apologies to Mr. Yankovic
 
2012-12-11 08:57:39 PM
They are saying on live stream that was a teenager.
 
2012-12-11 08:57:55 PM

Insatiable Jesus: neongoats: Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.



------------------


They're usually the obnoxious ones too, who like to drive aggressively and escalate situations.

See the poster above who related his story about having a knife pulled on him in a movie theater. Instead of going to the manager and letting him handle the problem in the theater he is responsible for, our friend told a total stranger to STFU and was so scandalized by the response that he cannot go see a movie now without taking his gun with him. I live right next to an idiot like this, his entire political outlook can be understood just by reading the stickers on his truck. He's jumped out of his truck on people here a couple of times, when they motion for him to slow down. Instead of realizing he's speeding down his own damned street with kids on it and taking responsibility for his actions, he will instead jump out, all ready to throw down. Idiot.

And based on the other 2A fanatics I have known, that seems to be a theme.


Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.

Now stop projecting.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:15 PM

CraicBaby: Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."


Fortunately reports are that the mall wasn't very crowded, which is a good thing and makes me wonder why the shooter would do this on a Tuesday afternoon? If he wanted a high body count, it seems like a Saturday or Sunday would be more effective.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:19 PM

BalugaJoe: They are saying on live stream that was a teenager.


/b/tard
 
2012-12-11 08:58:26 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."

I wonder if this means that the two killed were actually the targets (done at close range), and everything else was a last minute joyride before the shooter offed themselves.


Nah, more likely the gun jammed (which has been reported) so he didn't get to shoot as many as he wanted.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:32 PM

BalugaJoe: They are saying on live stream that was a teenager.


I'm playing the role of concerned guy.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:56 PM

vudukungfu: jaylectricity: So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

The guy in the Easter bunny suit kicked his ass.


Target rich environment.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:58 PM

DubtodaIll: I've never really understood the fear of guns. I don't know if this is true for everyone, but I had a friend in school who was completely anti-gun. He wanted to do drastic things like invent a time machine and go un-invent the gun and stuff like that or whatever. Anyway, we convinced him to go to a gun range with us and actually fire a weapon, as he had never actually used a gun before. He loved it, he had so much fun in fact, he now does recreational pistol shooting in a league and stuff.
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against guns have never actually used one to learn how freaking amazing they are. Though I do feel a return to swords and hand to hand combat would do wonders for civil society.


suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com
/Agrees
 
2012-12-11 08:58:58 PM

jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?


Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.
 
2012-12-11 08:59:18 PM

Dimensio: o5iiawah: Dimensio: Ms. Assam had volunteered to provide security coverage because she was a private citizen with a privately owned firearm and a concealed weapons permit, therefore that incident does not count because she was a professional security guard.

A private citizen with a personally owned firearm and a CCW issued to her personally who volunteers her time for security is not a professional.

Actual data is of no relevance to the cause of civilian disarmament.


To be fair, I had to reread that sentence myself.
 
2012-12-11 08:59:31 PM
A comment I saw on Facebook summed these mall shootings up nicely:

"Canned hunts for nutjobs."

/can we spend some more money on mental health care?
//please?
 
2012-12-11 08:59:51 PM

davidphogan: CraicBaby: Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."

Fortunately reports are that the mall wasn't very crowded, which is a good thing and makes me wonder why the shooter would do this on a Tuesday afternoon? If he wanted a high body count, it seems like a Saturday or Sunday would be more effective.


He's irrational and batshiat insane?
 
2012-12-11 08:59:52 PM
Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.
 
2012-12-11 08:59:58 PM

CrackpipeCardozo: The vast majority of legal firearm owners have approximately 1 butthole's worth of experience dealing with high intensity firearm situations, and a responsible firearm owner isn't going risk using their weapon to stop a spree shooter; ERGO . . . you know where this is going.


Your first statement cannot in any way be substantiated or proven unless you can provide some proof of aggregate training hours nationally per armed citizen.

Your second statement, I'll somewhat agree. If there's a spree shooter in the mall and there is a CCW among the sitting ducks, he is first and foremost probably concerned with getting himself or his family to safety. In fact, during the thousands of hours I've spent in firearms training, I've never had an instructor suggest that anyone try to be a hero in an incident like this for those very reasons. The anti-gun/CCW jerkoffs who are all over this thread are suggesting that CCW holders are pussies for not being able to take out the threat when in many cases they wont have a shot, or it is better for their own safety to exit the situation and notify professional law enforcement.

Nevertheless, should a situation arise where a spree shooter backs someone into a corner, or the CCW holder does have a shot and needs to take it to protect himself, his family or another human life then I support their right to carry.
 
2012-12-11 09:00:01 PM

jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


They are presumably white?
 
2012-12-11 09:00:04 PM

Ed Finnerty: jaylectricity: What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?

If the mall has a Family Dollar there may be some overlap.


It certainly was in Aurora. That wasn't the first time there was a shooting there, just the most grievous time.
 
2012-12-11 09:00:14 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.


OK...so why don't we have to divert traffic when there's a shooting in the ghetto?
 
2012-12-11 09:00:18 PM
Im going to hell....I cant help but wonder if I can buy some damaged goods cheap tomorrow...

"Slightly damaged by nick from gunfire, 1/2 off!"
 
2012-12-11 09:00:26 PM
Kit Fister: Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.


------------------


Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Snakebite anti-venom? How about a tourniquet? 20 batteries in each size? A personal flotation device?

You're not worried about ANY eventuality if not.
 
2012-12-11 09:00:38 PM

Alphakronik: Seeing as my wife is home late from xmas shopping and she forgot her cell phone, I'm a bit worried.


Does she resemble the woman on the floor in the pic linked above? I hope all is well.
 
2012-12-11 09:00:46 PM
Did you guys hear that north Korea just launched a rocket over Okinawa? Or did that one just go over your heads?

I'm serious, that just happened.
 
2012-12-11 09:00:48 PM

Kit Fister: vudukungfu: jaylectricity: So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

The guy in the Easter bunny suit kicked his ass.

Target rich environment.


You can stare at it. I don't mind.
 
2012-12-11 09:01:03 PM

WhoIsWillo: LeglessDog: Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.

No. Most criminals have a friend buy the weapon for them in exchange for money or drugs legally.


Um, that would be an illegal straw purchase...
 
2012-12-11 09:01:03 PM
This is right down the street from me (that's where we go to watch movies, ect). A pretty big mall. Hope there are no more fatalities found as the police sweep through the mall.
 
2012-12-11 09:01:03 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.



Thank you
 
2012-12-11 09:01:05 PM

grunthos: So, the Koreans and Japanese don't have crazy people shooting them....but they got crazy people killing them all the same. If they'd allowed more guns, it looks like they'd be safer. At least the body count would go down.


With more thoughtful planning, the Aurora massacre could have killed nearly everyone in the theatre with far less time, money, and effort.
 
2012-12-11 09:01:06 PM

Popcorn Johnny: BalugaJoe: They are saying on live stream that was a teenager.

/b/tard


Between yelling, "I am the shooter!" and the reports of a Guy Fawkes mask I wouldn't be surprised.
 
2012-12-11 09:01:28 PM

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.
 
2012-12-11 09:01:34 PM

CraicBaby: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Some good news (from The Oregonian):

"Legacy spokesperson says no Lifeflight helicopter flights after all. And ambulances at the scene are being sent home. Aside from the person being taken to OHSU Hospital, it doesn't look like any bad injuries -- or not serious enough to be sent to Legacy."

I wonder if this means that the two killed were actually the targets (done at close range), and everything else was a last minute joyride before the shooter offed themselves.

Nah, more likely the gun jammed (which has been reported) so he didn't get to shoot as many as he wanted.


Possibly, though most of these nutjobs overestimate how easy it is to hit a target that moving quickly in a random way (hell, it's hard to accurately hit at distance at all with a handgun without good practice).
 
2012-12-11 09:01:49 PM

GAT_00: And there's the standard NRA return volley - fix everything immediately, or else nothing should ever change.


You're the one wanting to take away my property in order to do nothing at all about people who use guns in criminal acts. My guns have not injured anybody, yet you want to punish me, while doing nothing to prevent others from using guns in crime.

So what's your plan to stop *them*?

/not an NRA member
 
2012-12-11 09:01:56 PM

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


ar-15 possibly?
 
2012-12-11 09:02:00 PM
NotARocketScientist: If your wife has to worry about some guy attacking her in the mall parking lot, maybe she should shop some where a little safer

Ah yes, blame the victim. I was waiting for that one.


Carrying the gun is to counter the worry as I assume your wife does not lack common sense and doesn't actually go into war zones to shop.

I do notice that you haven't countered my primary argument that there are places where guns do and don't belong.
 
2012-12-11 09:02:17 PM
urbannerd.com
Tis the season
 
2012-12-11 09:02:19 PM

Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.


Oops yeah, .223. Typo.
 
2012-12-11 09:02:41 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Kuroshin: CraicBaby: All descriptions I've read so far say the shooter was wearing a white mask of some sort.

Whitemask? Racist!


Some reports said it was a hockey mask


A "honkey mask"?! How is that any better?!
 
2012-12-11 09:02:44 PM

DubtodaIll: I've never really understood the fear of gunscrack. I don't know if this is true for everyone, but I had a friend in school who was completely anti-guncrack. He wanted to do drastic things like invent a time machine and go un-invent the guncrack and stuff like that or whatever. Anyway, we convinced him to go to a gun range crackhouse with us and actually fire a weaponup a rock, as he had never actually used a guncrack before. He loved it, he had so much fun in fact, he now does recreational shootings heroin in a league his scrotum and stuff.
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against gunscrack have never actually used oneit to learn how freaking amazing they areit is. Though I do feel a return to swords and hand to hand combat absinthe and laudanum would do wonders for civil society.


FTFLULZ
Stupid line of reasoning pal.
 
2012-12-11 09:03:00 PM

Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.


A tactically modified Mini-14 is also possible, but an AR-15 is more likely.
 
2012-12-11 09:03:18 PM

Mrbogey: grunthos: So, the Koreans and Japanese don't have crazy people shooting them....but they got crazy people killing them all the same. If they'd allowed more guns, it looks like they'd be safer. At least the body count would go down.

With more thoughtful planning, the Aurora massacre could have killed nearly everyone in the theatre with far less time, money, and effort.


It's not a good comparison anyway, because the truly dedicated nutjobs just find a way to gas people instead (for example).
 
2012-12-11 09:03:34 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Well we have plenty of responsible anti-murder legislation. Good thing criminals follow laws or things like this would happen.
 
2012-12-11 09:03:54 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: That's not what it's about. It's not about gun minutia obsessions, it's about how the media sensationalizes everything, such that a guy with an Airsoft gun is walking around carrying the latest and greatest black full-auto killing machine. It's not that they have to know the difference between a Glock and anything else, but that they don't need to make stuff up.



Okay, that's more reasonable, then.

Did the airsoft thing actually happen? Do those kinds of stories happen a lot? If they do I never take notice, unlike incidents like tonight's which you can't help but notice.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:01 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: It's not a good comparison anyway, because the truly dedicated nutjobs just find a way to gas people instead (for example).


You know, it reminds me of an issue of Spider-man I did. When Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy went lingerie shopping. Of course, the Green Goblin showed up, and he pumpkin-bombed the hell out of the place. But aside from that, it's pretty much the same thing.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:15 PM

CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.


Well, there goes my handgun theory.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:15 PM

some_beer_drinker: for the love of god, please take the guns away from Americans, they are far too irresponsible.


If you don't have to give up your car because some idiot drove drunk with theirs, why should I have to give up my gun because others commit crimes with theirs?
 
2012-12-11 09:04:18 PM

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:21 PM

jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.

OK...so why don't we have to divert traffic when there's a shooting in the ghetto?


There's not as much traffic in the ghetto.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:44 PM

Marine1: A comment I saw on Facebook summed these mall shootings up nicely:

"Canned hunts for nutjobs."

/can we spend some more money on mental health care?
//please?


No because it's less sexy than gun bans to a "civilized" outside world.

Seriously, comprehensive mental healthcare, along with comprehensive reporting of people suspected of being a danger for mandatory legal evaluation along with a temporary flag preventing the purchase of firearms, pending further evaluation. Anyone considered a major threat could be hospitalized for evaluation.

Better than the alternative.
 
2012-12-11 09:04:51 PM

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


.223 is insanely common. Could be just about anything.
 
2012-12-11 09:05:01 PM
I work over on Sunnybrook (next street over); we heard siren after siren after siren, so I checked KATU's website and saw the breaking news.

"What are the chances," I thought, "that my kid home from college got out of bed before 3 o'clock and went to the mall with Dad to get me a nice Christmas present?" None, really, but...uh. So I called home...no answer. Called again, no answer. Texted him, and then called my husband's cell--which was answered after a few rings by my son, WITH SIRENS IN THE BACKGROUND.

I said "ARE YOU" and he said "NO WE'RE NOT!" and I about puked in relief. But the were driving down 82nd right in front of Town Center shortly about fifteen minutes after the shooting and it was a madhouse, they saw dozens of emergency vehicles pouring in, people running... They were right in front of Town Center when I called.

My heart rate is just now slowing down. We locked our doors at work (although it now appears the shooter was dead by the time we did that), just in case, and when I left the office my coworker watched me from the back door while I made the forty-foot trek to my car.

Ack. My excellent husband had a drink waiting for me when I got home. Love that man.
 
2012-12-11 09:05:28 PM
Is Wikipedia page up yet?
 
2012-12-11 09:05:33 PM
Kuroshin: met her once what a coont
img.spokeo.com
She could've been the cover double for Tina Fey's "Bossypants"

hmmm...;
www.tonyaharding.com/messages/standard/MESSAGES.CFM?...13
" I always kept a picture of Tonya Harding with me inside my body armor. I would pull it out during my most trying moments and I would feel better just staring at beautiful Tonya Hardings smile on the cheap color photo copy paper I had wrapped in clear tape to protect it. Her beautiful picture made me happy when I was devestated due to combat losses, her beautiful face made me push harder to focus and stay alert when I was exhausted on combat patrols. I always felt better just thinking about how I wished I could put down my machine gun and hold Tonya Harding in my arms with my arms around her waist and hold her close to me, hug her gently and kiss her cheek softly and run my fingers through her hair affectionately. Tonyas beauty reminded me what I was fighting for ,among other things, to protect her freedoms and her safety, and her prosperous future as an American. I love Tonya Harding's image of precious beauty. If you ever see her ,kiss her on the forehead for me and tell her, her fans cherish her talent and her darling doll like beauty. -U.S. Army Infantryman"
 
2012-12-11 09:05:55 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.


www.slickguns.com
 
2012-12-11 09:05:59 PM

Rockstone: jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.

OK...so why don't we have to divert traffic when there's a shooting in the ghetto?

There's not as much traffic in the ghetto.


Yeah, because nobody in their right mind wants to drive through there.
 
2012-12-11 09:06:06 PM

vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.


*nod* Matches eyewitness reports of the gun being an assault rifle, then.
 
2012-12-11 09:06:13 PM

jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: jaylectricity: Bathia_Mapes: jaylectricity: There are shootings every day. Why do we care about this one?


Are there shootings in malls everyday?  I think not.

So it's the mall that makes the difference? Why?

Because it affected thousands of people all at once.

The freeway had to be closed. People had to be warned to stay away. Law enforcement had to account for the safety of hundreds of people inside. Mass transit was diverted. Many people were affected by one person with a weapon.

That's why.

OK...so why don't we have to divert traffic when there's a shooting in the ghetto?


Give up.
 
2012-12-11 09:06:30 PM

vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.


On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?
 
2012-12-11 09:06:47 PM
A ban on getting shot in public could have prevented this.
 
2012-12-11 09:07:13 PM

Dimensio: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

[www.slickguns.com image 500x269]


*chuckle*
 
2012-12-11 09:07:18 PM

Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?


But, now that you mention it, when a girl says its a good size, that's a nice way of saying that it's small.
 
2012-12-11 09:07:27 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.


Not necessarily. But, yeah, highly unlikely.
 
2012-12-11 09:08:09 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Give up.


Yeah, because nobody gives a shiat about anybody they don't know. Unless they're media-friendly.
 
2012-12-11 09:08:23 PM
While everyone else debates gun control, I'm just going to point out that there is an entire company of paramilitary and military personnel responding to this incident. Which is far scarier than the fact some whacko went on a shooting binge in a mall.
 
2012-12-11 09:08:26 PM

Dimensio: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

[www.slickguns.com image 500x269]


That not just counts as a handgun, but in VA, it even qualifies as concealable.
 
2012-12-11 09:09:35 PM
Lots of cops are headed there to get the overtime.
 
2012-12-11 09:09:48 PM

CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.


.233?

Probably .223 Its a comparatively less powerful round with less kick than a 30-30 or a 30-06. Similar to the 5.56 NATO rounds---it would unfortunately be a good choice for this type of carnage. Easy to get, easy to fire. 

/220, 221 whatever it takes
 
2012-12-11 09:09:51 PM

Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?


Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:32 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.


------------------


Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Snakebite anti-venom? How about a tourniquet? 20 batteries in each size? A personal flotation device?

You're not worried about ANY eventuality if not.


As a matter of fact, I keep pretty much everything needed to survive here in MI in my truck, from a fire extinguisher to a tool box to spare blankets and winter accessories to a corpsman's medkit.

Plus a grab bag with the essentials.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:43 PM

knowless: Did you guys hear that north Korea just launched a rocket over Okinawa? Or did that one just go over your heads?


Those of us with AP apps on our Ipod Touches knew 30 minutes ago. We're prepared for every eventuality.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:54 PM
If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:57 PM

BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.


No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.
 
2012-12-11 09:10:59 PM
Oh yeah, and don't forget the fire when the band Great White was playing in Rhode Island...100 dead and they weren't even trying to kill anyone!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire

Also, the management of that venue was in violation of any number of ordinances. So, once again, having laws in place didn't seem to help much.

Oh, and only 3 days before that, 21 dead at another nightclub..from a pepper-spray (non-lethal, remember?) induced riot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_E2_nightclub_stampede

These shooters are total underperformers.
 
2012-12-11 09:11:13 PM

phaseolus: Adolf Oliver Nipples: That's not what it's about. It's not about gun minutia obsessions, it's about how the media sensationalizes everything, such that a guy with an Airsoft gun is walking around carrying the latest and greatest black full-auto killing machine. It's not that they have to know the difference between a Glock and anything else, but that they don't need to make stuff up.


Okay, that's more reasonable, then.

Did the airsoft thing actually happen? Do those kinds of stories happen a lot? If they do I never take notice, unlike incidents like tonight's which you can't help but notice.


It happens from time to time, some more dramatic than others.

This thread is going to go completely off the rails soon, so I'll post this before it does:

"Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

The reason this is significant is that when the media gets it wrong, they feed a moral panic that plays right into the hands of a few who not only have an agenda but actively attempt to sow confusion in order to progress that agenda. The Brady Campaign and the Violence Policy Center (Josh Sugarmann's organization) are hardly the only ones that are guilty of doing that, but in this case it has proven to be such an effective strategy that it is difficult to make distinctions, and when the media makes no effort it simply inflames the situation further.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:07 PM

redsquid: AssAsInAssassin: Pharacyde: Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

I feel more like I do now than I did before.

Are you quoting Yogi Berra or just channeling him?


What channel is he on? I just get basic cable.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:12 PM

Somacandra: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

.233?

Probably .223 Its a comparatively less powerful round with less kick than a 30-30 or a 30-06. Similar to the 5.56 NATO rounds---it would unfortunately be a good choice for this type of carnage. Easy to get, easy to fire. 

/220, 221 whatever it takes


Yeah, it was a typo. I meant .223.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:29 PM

Oblio13


WhoIsWillo: LeglessDog: Gun legislation only affects people who procure the weapons through legal channels--most criminals don't buy their weapon at the local gun shop.

No. Most criminals have a friend buy the weapon for them in exchange for money or drugs legally.

Um, that would be an illegal straw purchase...


I've embiggened and emboldened an important word for you.
 
ecl
2012-12-11 09:12:53 PM

Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?


Everyone should know you're clown shoes by now.
 
2012-12-11 09:12:55 PM
Lieberman is on CNN and pretty proud of trying to ban fully-automatic weapons.
 
2012-12-11 09:13:08 PM

vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?

Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.


All assault rifles are restricted by the 1934 National Firearms Act. Civilian-available AR-15 rifles, lacking any firing mode where more than one round is discharged per single trigger pull, by definition cannot be assault rifles.
 
2012-12-11 09:13:08 PM

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.


Is this a clumsy Australia-Austria joke derivative?
 
2012-12-11 09:13:51 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.


Multiple witnesses have described it as an AR-15 that I've heard now. Guns are fairly popular in Oregon, especially in Clackamas County so they probably have seen one before to jump right to a description that is that specific and not just "assault rifle." Quite a few more have said assault rifle, but I've heard at least eight witnesses specifically call it an AR-15.
 
2012-12-11 09:14:17 PM

Dimensio: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

A tactically modified Mini-14 is also possible, but an AR-15 is more likely.


Everyone's been expecting a return of the assault weapon ban, so the Armalite derivatives have been getting more sales.

/Mini-14 is actually better for most gun owners needs, but the evil black rifles get all the attention.
/The stats aren't much different, just that the Ruger is less needy on the maintenance.
 
2012-12-11 09:14:27 PM

Ed Finnerty: jaylectricity: What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?

If the mall has a Family Dollar there may be some overlap.


Dollar Store is across the street. CTC is in a bad neighborhood.

/used to live down by the high school
 
2012-12-11 09:14:37 PM

gopher321: Who would shoot a mall?


I think the grammar is confusing you. Re-read the headline. It's the mall that's doing the shooting.
 
2012-12-11 09:14:57 PM

Somacandra: Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

[i.imgur.com image 670x618]

Oblig #1


He's got a point.

We should deregulate Sudafed.
 
2012-12-11 09:15:09 PM
AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!
 
2012-12-11 09:15:27 PM

Kit Fister: But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals


We also don't stop law-abiding citizens from BECOMING criminals, dipshiat.

Jeebus, you sound like a parody of yourself. Why do you love your guns more than you love peace?
 
2012-12-11 09:15:41 PM
Time for another false flag already?
 
2012-12-11 09:15:50 PM

AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.


Which "psychopath" in Switzerland used an automatic weapon, from Switzerland, to murder 60+ children?
 
2012-12-11 09:16:08 PM

Dallymo: I work over on Sunnybrook (next street over); we heard siren after siren after siren, so I checked KATU's website and saw the breaking news.

"What are the chances," I thought, "that my kid home from college got out of bed before 3 o'clock and went to the mall with Dad to get me a nice Christmas present?" None, really, but...uh. So I called home...no answer. Called again, no answer. Texted him, and then called my husband's cell--which was answered after a few rings by my son, WITH SIRENS IN THE BACKGROUND.

I said "ARE YOU" and he said "NO WE'RE NOT!" and I about puked in relief. But the were driving down 82nd right in front of Town Center shortly about fifteen minutes after the shooting and it was a madhouse, they saw dozens of emergency vehicles pouring in, people running... They were right in front of Town Center when I called.

My heart rate is just now slowing down. We locked our doors at work (although it now appears the shooter was dead by the time we did that), just in case, and when I left the office my coworker watched me from the back door while I made the forty-foot trek to my car.

Ack. My excellent husband had a drink waiting for me when I got home. Love that man.



Glad to hear you and your family are okay. 
 
2012-12-11 09:16:24 PM

Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.


hehe, gun control nuts just got biatch slapped in Illinois. Supreme Court ruled that Illinois was indeed infringing on the 2nd amendment rights of illinoians. They have 180 days to draw up gun laws allowing residents to carry.
 
2012-12-11 09:16:26 PM

grunthos: AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!


The main problem with his argument is that he doesn't seem to realize that Norway and Switzerland are separate countries.
 
2012-12-11 09:16:59 PM

jaylectricity: Lenny_da_Hog: Give up.

Yeah, because nobody gives a shiat about anybody they don't know. Unless they're media-friendly.


You're not paying attention.

Things that affect a lot of people become breaking news.

Shootings in apartments become news in the paper the next day.

Clackamas county had other shootings in the last couple of days. A kid murdered his grandmother. It did not affect thousands of people in a heavily populated urban area. It did not cause hundreds to run for their lives in terror.

It ended up in the newspaper as a murder story.
 
2012-12-11 09:17:06 PM
Now that there's a mobile version of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, you can play the mall missions in an actual mall without actually shooting anybody. Was that not good enough for this clown?
 
2012-12-11 09:17:21 PM
Kit Fister: Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.


------------------


Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Snakebite anti-venom? How about a tourniquet? 20 batteries in each size? A personal flotation device?

You're not worried about ANY eventuality if not.

As a matter of fact, I keep pretty much everything needed to survive here in MI in my truck, from a fire extinguisher to a tool box to spare blankets and winter accessories to a corpsman's medkit.

Plus a grab bag with the essentials.



-------------------------

Ok then. You enjoy yourself, you sound like a perfectly normal person. Make sure you keep plenty of tinfoil in your warwagon there, Sparky.
 
2012-12-11 09:18:38 PM

Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop


Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.
 
2012-12-11 09:19:04 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.


Won't you think of all the bolt-action shootouts like in Speed Racer episodes?
 
2012-12-11 09:19:14 PM

knowless: Did you guys hear that north Korea just launched a rocket over Okinawa? Or did that one just go over your heads?

I'm serious, that just happened.


Can't you see we're busy here?!
 
2012-12-11 09:19:32 PM

Dimensio: vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?

Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.

All assault rifles are restricted by the 1934 National Firearms Act. Civilian-available AR-15 rifles, lacking any firing mode where more than one round is discharged per single trigger pull, by definition cannot be assault rifles.


Yeah - I thought you were heading there, but most adults use "assault rifle" to refer to semi-automatic weapons capable of accepting large capacity magazines and a pistol grip. The term pretty accurately conveys in the correct information and anyone who knows thing one about firearms, and anyone who doesn't know squat isn't going to be any less ill-informed, so I'm comfortable with the term.
 
2012-12-11 09:19:48 PM
When will the Australian DJs call in?
 
2012-12-11 09:19:56 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals

We also don't stop law-abiding citizens from BECOMING criminals, dipshiat.

Jeebus, you sound like a parody of yourself. Why do you love your guns more than you love peace?


Because even in places where guns are banned there is 't peace. I accept the reality that humans are violent creatures and don't make excuses for it while trying to nerf the whole world in order to save humanity from itself.
 
2012-12-11 09:20:17 PM

DubtodaIll:
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against guns have never actually used one to learn how freaking amazing they are.


Actually, some people find them rather boring. I mean, they're not lasers.
 
2012-12-11 09:20:59 PM

vygramul: Lieberman is on CNN and pretty proud of trying to ban fully-automatic weapons.


You mean the ones that were already banned and required special licensing from the ATF even in the 1980s to get? :-)
 
2012-12-11 09:21:04 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Is this a clumsy Australia-Austria joke derivative?


No, you just don't understand compound sentences. That might explain your simplistic reasoning and your predilection for bumper-sticker slogans.
 
2012-12-11 09:21:09 PM

Kit Fister: AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals

We also don't stop law-abiding citizens from BECOMING criminals, dipshiat.

Jeebus, you sound like a parody of yourself. Why do you love your guns more than you love peace?

Because even in places where guns are banned there is 't peace. I accept the reality that humans are violent creatures and don't make excuses for it while trying to nerf the whole world in order to save humanity from itself.


To provide fair consideration: AssAsInAssassin has previously advocated abridgment of Constitutionally protected liberties based solely upon a secret and demonstrably erroneous list while offering those affected neither due process nor means of appeal.
 
2012-12-11 09:21:13 PM

Kuroshin: Ed Finnerty: jaylectricity: What is the percentage of Americans at the mall vs the percentage of Americans that live in a poor neighborhood?

If the mall has a Family Dollar there may be some overlap.

Dollar Store is across the street. CTC is in a bad neighborhood.

/used to live down by the high school


There are two places within an hour drive of me that have shopping plazas with both a Family Dollar and a Dollar Tree. One of the plazas has them right next door to each other.
 
2012-12-11 09:21:17 PM

Combustion: Cats_Lie: Fun mall fact: Clackamas is/was known to host the ice skating rink in which Tanya Harding was a regular.

WRONG! The Ice Rink is the Lloyd Center.


DOUBLE WRONG! Lloyd Center does have a rink, but the one where Tonya Harding used to practice was on the first floor of CTC. The seating area for the current food court is above that space now; for many years you would buy your food at the food court and look down on the ice rink. The entrance was where the escalators and Buckle are now.
 
2012-12-11 09:21:19 PM

vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?

Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.

All assault rifles are restricted by the 1934 National Firearms Act. Civilian-available AR-15 rifles, lacking any firing mode where more than one round is discharged per single trigger pull, by definition cannot be assault rifles.

Yeah - I thought you were heading there, but most adults use "assault rifle" to refer to semi-automatic weapons capable of accepting large capacity magazines and a pistol grip. The term pretty accurately conveys in the correct information and anyone who knows thing one about firearms, and anyone who doesn't know squat isn't going to be any less ill-informed, so I'm comfortable with the term.

"Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

Reposted from earlier because you just proved his point and made mine.
 
2012-12-11 09:21:52 PM

Somacandra: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.

Won't you think of all the bolt-action shootouts like in Speed Racer episodes?


I have a childhood, boy scout fondness for bolt-action rifles.

/that sounds dirty, somehow
 
2012-12-11 09:22:02 PM

neongoats: Concealed carry idiots are funny though. I know several IRL. They are so pants pissingly scared of life in general they won't take a ride to the gas station without being armed. And yet their biggest masturbatory fantasy is getting in an old west style shoot out and saving the day at some mall, at which point handgun loving big titted blondes appear and fellate them. That said, in my state it's a pretty rigorous process to be licensed so at least there is some kind of process to attempt to weed out the truly psychotic and criminally insane.


You pretty much summed up why I can't take gun nuts seriously.

I mean it's all fine and dandy if you want to carry a gun, just don't BS to me and say that it would stop mass shootings like this.
 
2012-12-11 09:22:11 PM

knowless: Did you guys hear that north Korea just launched a rocket over Okinawa? Or did that one just go over your heads?

I'm serious, that just happened.


They have a right to defend themselves.

So, let's talk about banning guns...

/Sorry, it was too easy.
 
2012-12-11 09:22:16 PM

Somacandra: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If it does end up being an AR-15, I should drink every time someone says "semi-automatic" in a way that implies something other than what "semi-automatic" means.

Won't you think of all the bolt-action shootouts like in Speed Racer episodes?


At least my bolt-action doesn't jam.
 
2012-12-11 09:22:42 PM

TommyymmoT: Scanner: Chasing a guy in a white Ford, wearing cammo, with a rifle.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net


Clacka, his Ford white, his clothing camouflaged, with rifle loaded.
 
2012-12-11 09:22:49 PM

Somacandra: vygramul: Lieberman is on CNN and pretty proud of trying to ban fully-automatic weapons.

You mean the ones that were already banned and required special licensing from the ATF even in the 1980s to get? :-)


First rule of politics: always take credit for fighting for something that is moot.
 
2012-12-11 09:22:51 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Way to assume. I carry a gun when I feel like it, and carry it like I carry a leatherman or a pocket knife: probably won't need it but might as well have it just in case. No one ever died from being prepared for any eventuality.


------------------


Do you carry a fire extinguisher? Snakebite anti-venom? How about a tourniquet? 20 batteries in each size? A personal flotation device?

You're not worried about ANY eventuality if not.

As a matter of fact, I keep pretty much everything needed to survive here in MI in my truck, from a fire extinguisher to a tool box to spare blankets and winter accessories to a corpsman's medkit.

Plus a grab bag with the essentials.



-------------------------

Ok then. You enjoy yourself, you sound like a perfectly normal person. Make sure you keep plenty of tinfoil in your warwagon there, Sparky.


Sure and I'll be glad to keep being able to offer the guy with a dead battery a jump, help that pregnant lady change a flat, bandage up the kid who cuts himself at the company picnic, and be able to stay warm when my vehicle doesn't start in the dead of winter.
 
2012-12-11 09:24:07 PM
Gun-nutz be defensive to-nite!
 
2012-12-11 09:24:14 PM

FunkOut: DubtodaIll:
Anyway, I just feel like most of the people railing against guns have never actually used one to learn how freaking amazing they are.

Actually, some people find them rather boring. I mean, they're not lasers.


I can definitely get behind the anti-laser control movement. You can have my laser when you pry it from my cold dead cybernetic hands.
 
2012-12-11 09:24:45 PM

grunthos: AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!


Yes! And the gun-nut party does everything they can to be sure that psychopaths get those guns. Any effort to prevent psychopaths from getting guns is met with cries of "COMMIE!!!" and "Why do you hate America?" and "Obama is comin' fer our guns!!!" and "\HOW WE STOP COMMIE OBAMA IF'N WE AIN'T GOT OUR GUNS???"
 
2012-12-11 09:24:59 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop

Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.


As a society we actually do very little to prevent murders.
The bulk of law enforcement is on finding and punishing killers after the fact. Not routing them out while they only have evil intentions.

/You can increase your chances of not being murdered by locking your doors, learning about self defense, and avoiding the drug trade.
 
2012-12-11 09:25:03 PM
The solution.

img507.imageshack.us

Every public place.
 
2012-12-11 09:25:05 PM

AssAsInAssassin: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Is this a clumsy Australia-Austria joke derivative?

No, you just don't understand compound sentences. That might explain your simplistic reasoning and your predilection for bumper-sticker slogans.


Kids in Norway didn't have an assault rifle in Switzerland save them, but rather murder them

Say what now?

/you're getting your countries confused
 
2012-12-11 09:26:43 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: "Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

Reposted from earlier because you just proved his point and made mine.


*shrug*

Walk into any gun store in VA and say you want to buy an assault rifle, and they'll show you an AR-15 (or similar) without any hesitation. There's a difference between a semi-automatic handgun and a revolver, and there's a difference between an AR-15 and a hunting rifle. Again: "Assault rifle" in this context conveys accurate information to anyone who knows anything about firearms.

In short, this complaint doesn't impress me.
 
2012-12-11 09:26:48 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop

Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.


Because its reasonable to abridge the freedoms and rights of people if it means that we can save then from themselves, right?

Those who give up liberty in the name of security deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

Further, I prefer to live life and accept the risks of it than to allow asshats like you determine what is and is not a reasonable measure to take to "protect" me.
 
2012-12-11 09:26:58 PM

Kuroshin: Kids in Norway didn't have an assault rifle in Switzerland save them, but rather murder them

Say what now?

/you're getting your countries confused


I was a little more surprised that other people didn't catch that.

I can always count on you, Comrade Kuroshin.
 
2012-12-11 09:27:12 PM
Sometimes I suffer from an over abundance of hope for the future. Then I read a FARK gun thread.
You are 95% stupid.
 
2012-12-11 09:27:12 PM
Wikipedia page is up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Town_Center_Shooting
 
2012-12-11 09:27:14 PM

p4p3rm4t3: The solution.

[img507.imageshack.us image 192x426]

Every public place.


What is that, some kind of bottle opener? Good idea!
 
2012-12-11 09:27:31 PM
It's not unreasonable to suggest these are planned to promote the hysteria.
 
2012-12-11 09:27:38 PM

AssAsInAssassin: grunthos: AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!

Yes! And the gun-nut party does everything they can to be sure that psychopaths get those guns. Any effort to prevent psychopaths from getting guns is met with cries of "COMMIE!!!" and "Why do you hate America?" and "Obama is comin' fer our guns!!!" and "\HOW WE STOP COMMIE OBAMA IF'N WE AIN'T GOT OUR GUNS???"


Ok, it's official, you're living on another planet. One where Switzerland is Norway, and people advocating responsibility in gun ownership are fiendishly slaving away at providing guns directly to known psychopaths.
 
2012-12-11 09:27:51 PM

Kuroshin: AssAsInAssassin: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Is this a clumsy Australia-Austria joke derivative?

No, you just don't understand compound sentences. That might explain your simplistic reasoning and your predilection for bumper-sticker slogans.

Kids in Norway didn't have an assault rifle in Switzerland save them, but rather murder them

Say what now?

/you're getting your countries confused


As I stated previously.
 
2012-12-11 09:28:13 PM
My best friend lives near Portland, and a lot of his other friends live in the city itself. The mall where this happened is the mall he used to work at, and if he still worked there, he would have been there during the shooting.

Fortunately, he and all his friends are ok.
 
2012-12-11 09:28:21 PM

OregonVet: It's not unreasonable to suggest these are planned to promote the hysteria.


That's pretty much the definition of terrorism.
 
2012-12-11 09:28:23 PM

vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: Dimensio: vygramul: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

AR-15 or similar rifle, like a SIG556 or something. In any event, it's almost certainly an assault rifle.

On what basis do you speculate use of a federally restricted firearm?

Well, the federal restriction on the AR-15 is just that you have to prove you are a citizen of the US. But basically, because it's not typical to walk into a gun store and find anything that fires a .223 round other than an assault rifle.

All assault rifles are restricted by the 1934 National Firearms Act. Civilian-available AR-15 rifles, lacking any firing mode where more than one round is discharged per single trigger pull, by definition cannot be assault rifles.

Yeah - I thought you were heading there, but most adults use "assault rifle" to refer to semi-automatic weapons capable of accepting large capacity magazines and a pistol grip. The term pretty accurately conveys in the correct information and anyone who knows thing one about firearms, and anyone who doesn't know squat isn't going to be any less ill-informed, so I'm comfortable with the term.


You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"

By failing to acknowledge the distinction between military-style and civilian style-firearms, you allow people to confuse the two. But then again--that's exactly the point, right?
 
2012-12-11 09:28:39 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Kuroshin: Kids in Norway didn't have an assault rifle in Switzerland save them, but rather murder them

Say what now?

/you're getting your countries confused

I was a little more surprised that other people didn't catch that.

I can always count on you, Comrade Kuroshin.


I think most people have him on ignore by now...
 
2012-12-11 09:28:49 PM

Kit Fister: AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop

Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.

Because its reasonable to abridge the freedoms and rights of people if it means that we can save then from themselves, right?

Those who give up liberty in the name of security deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

Further, I prefer to live life and accept the risks of it than to allow asshats like you determine what is and is not a reasonable measure to take to "protect" me.


But thinks like background checks and CCW permits are ok correct?
 
2012-12-11 09:29:18 PM

AssAsInAssassin: grunthos: AssAsInAssassin

but one of them helped a psychopath murder them

Are you able now to see the common thread in this. You just agreed with the opinion you were trying to counter. It's not the gun, it's the "psychopath" that's the problem. Look at my comments above about the accidental fires and even further above citing the intentional homicides in Korea and Japan that were much, much worse than these shootings.

It's not the guns, it's the crazy person wielding them!!

Yes! And the gun-nut party does everything they can to be sure that psychopaths get those guns. Any effort to prevent psychopaths from getting guns is met with cries of "COMMIE!!!" and "Why do you hate America?" and "Obama is comin' fer our guns!!!" and "\HOW WE STOP COMMIE OBAMA IF'N WE AIN'T GOT OUR GUNS???"


You seem to have missed the gun owner side of the equation being all for increased NICS background check strength and a host of improvements to mental health care and so forth, things that would actually go further to preventing this than gun bans. So, plonk with you
 
2012-12-11 09:29:38 PM

Kuroshin: AssAsInAssassin: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Is this a clumsy Australia-Austria joke derivative?

No, you just don't understand compound sentences. That might explain your simplistic reasoning and your predilection for bumper-sticker slogans.

Kids in Norway didn't have an assault rifle in Switzerland save them, but rather murder them

Say what now?

/you're getting your countries confused


Forget it, he's rolling 
media.giantbomb.com
 
2012-12-11 09:30:23 PM

Dimensio: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Which "psychopath" in Switzerland used an automatic weapon, from Switzerland, to murder 60+ children?


Excuse me. Norway. I was going off what's-his-name's post. It was Norway. I was wrong. Norway is a country with no gun-control laws, no guns, and no gun violence. That completely obviates my post. Forgive my lapse into farking stupidity.
 
2012-12-11 09:30:48 PM

Kit Fister: Sure and I'll be glad to keep being able to offer the guy with a dead battery a jump, help that pregnant lady change a flat, bandage up the kid who cuts himself at the company picnic, and be able to stay warm when my vehicle doesn't start in the dead of winter.


Unless you have an artificial vagina in that grab bag, you are definitely not prepared for all circumstances.
 
2012-12-11 09:31:59 PM

BravadoGT: You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"

By failing to acknowledge the distinction between military-style and civilian style-firearms, you allow people to confuse the two. But then again--that's exactly the point, right?


I don't think you read my posts very much if that's what you think. I own a Stag Arms AR-15.

Maybe as a Virginian, we're not worried about the state taking our weapons, so we're not gun-shy (ha!) about the semantics.
 
2012-12-11 09:32:24 PM

ecl: Silly Jesus: Who cares? Two people just died in a car accident two cities away from me. Should I submit that with a BREAKING NEWS!!!!!ONE111!!! tag?

Everyone should know you're clown shoes by now.


I think he's on the dope and the goofballs.
 
2012-12-11 09:32:39 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Dimensio: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Which "psychopath" in Switzerland used an automatic weapon, from Switzerland, to murder 60+ children?

Excuse me. Norway. I was going off what's-his-name's post. It was Norway. I was wrong. Norway is a country with no gun-control laws, no guns, and no gun violence. That completely obviates my post. Forgive my lapse into farking stupidity.


I am accustomed to "stupidity" from civilian disarmament advocates, especially from those who have openly advocate abridgment of civil liberties, without due process, based upon secret lists.
 
2012-12-11 09:32:43 PM

OregonVet: It's not unreasonable to suggest these are planned to promote the hysteria.


You mean beyond the guy who obviously planned and executed it for the purpose of causing hysteria?
 
2012-12-11 09:33:01 PM
There is a sale at Penny's
 
2012-12-11 09:33:50 PM

vygramul: Adolf Oliver Nipples: "Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

Reposted from earlier because you just proved his point and made mine.

*shrug*

Walk into any gun store in VA and say you want to buy an assault rifle, and they'll show you an AR-15 (or similar) without any hesitation. There's a difference between a semi-automatic handgun and a revolver, and there's a difference between an AR-15 and a hunting rifle. Again: "Assault rifle" in this context conveys accurate information to anyone who knows anything about firearms.

In short, this complaint doesn't impress me.


It wouldn't have impressed me either if it hadn't predicted the legal environment of the next 25 years. Since I'm not terribly interested in seeing a repeat, I post that to ensure that the distinction never gets blurred again by people like you who are seemingly disinterested in the truth.
 
2012-12-11 09:34:06 PM
Woo! 6:30 press conference has started!
 
2012-12-11 09:34:47 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: farkmedown: In addition to the above comment on your trollbait post, if they were carrying concealed in those places, they were likely doing so in violation of state law, so to draw and fire would be to commit a crime, no matter if lives were saved.

Only if the establishment stated it doesn't allow concealed firearms.


I agree and should have said so in my comment. Some states, unfortunately not Oklahoma, have very specific signage requirements so that they're visible and easy to understand. Some facilities like to put a small icon or fine print up. :/
 
2012-12-11 09:35:26 PM

Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: GAT_00: ronaprhys: Face it - you've got nothing to stand on here.

Yeah, mass murder is nothing worth stopping.

 

Freedom means innocents die for no farking reason. Gotta love the NRA.

Wake me when the criminals and psychos get the memo to stop butchering people, drunk drivers stop driving and killing people, and people stop using religion or politics as an excuse to butcher each other.

Face it, we're a violent species, life is fleeting, and the more crowded we get the more people will die for stupid shiat. Banning guns may make a tiny dent, but it ain't gonna stop

Right. Let's not even try to prevent murders. Hell, people will always break the law. Why even have laws? I say we just hang everyone.

Because its reasonable to abridge the freedoms and rights of people if it means that we can save then from themselves, right?

Those who give up liberty in the name of security deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

Further, I prefer to live life and accept the risks of it than to allow asshats like you determine what is and is not a reasonable measure to take to "protect" me.

But thinks like background checks and CCW permits are ok correct?


Reasonable methods to prevent known criminals and threats from havin free reign in such a way that does not hinder the exercise of a right is fine.

I have no issues subjecting myself to classes, background checks, and other such as they don't stop me from freely exercising my rights once performed. Like a doctor's checkup or similar.

It's the deliberate desire to restrict or remove a right that is unacceptable.
 
2012-12-11 09:35:53 PM

Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.


you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?
 
2012-12-11 09:36:02 PM

vygramul: OregonVet: It's not unreasonable to suggest these are planned to promote the hysteria.

That's pretty much the definition of terrorism.


Not as high-tech as lighting cats on fire and sending them into sugar cane fields....

Somacandra: OregonVet: It's not unreasonable to suggest these are planned to promote the hysteria.

You mean beyond the guy who obviously planned and executed it for the purpose of causing hysteria?


Seems to have our attention.
 
2012-12-11 09:36:27 PM
Shooter killed himself, law enforcement didn't fire so they're just assuming. 2 dead plus the shooter, one significant transported to the hospital. They're pretty sure they've notified the families involved, otherwise they're probably still talking to police.

Mall will post info for customers, employees, and businesses online. Closed until police are ready, so that's a big hit for retailers.
 
2012-12-11 09:36:59 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I have a childhood, boy scout fondness for bolt-action rifles....that sounds dirty, somehow


I completely agree. I remember my bolt-action play rifle and real rifle both quite fondly. And I enjoyed that snug secure feeling and *clack* of opening and closing the bolt-action at those right angles. I'm not afraid to say there was something kinda sexy about it either.
 
2012-12-11 09:37:03 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Kit Fister: But we as a country don't punish the law abiding because of the criminals

We also don't stop law-abiding citizens from BECOMING criminals, dipshiat.

Jeebus, you sound like a parody of yourself. Why do you love your guns more than you love peace?


has anyone pointed out the irony in someone with your nickname advocating for peace yet?
 
2012-12-11 09:37:58 PM

Dimensio: AssAsInAssassin: Dimensio: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they're peaceful, and just about everyone has an automatic weapon? or are you just sticking with character attack.

No, I think it's enough to point out that you pointed out that just about everyone in Switzerland has an automatic weapon, that those automatic weapons didn't save the 60+ kids from getting murdered, but one of them helped a psychopath murder them. Thank you for making my point better than I could have hoped to.

Which "psychopath" in Switzerland used an automatic weapon, from Switzerland, to murder 60+ children?

Excuse me. Norway. I was going off what's-his-name's post. It was Norway. I was wrong. Norway is a country with no gun-control laws, no guns, and no gun violence. That completely obviates my post. Forgive my lapse into farking stupidity.

I am accustomed to "stupidity" from civilian disarmament advocates, especially from those who have openly advocate abridgment of civil liberties, without due process, based upon secret lists.


Pssst should we tell him that gun ownership is legal in Norway, and they have a fairly active shooting community there? Same as in Fance, Finland, and Sweden...
 
2012-12-11 09:38:23 PM

vygramul: BravadoGT: You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"

By failing to acknowledge the distinction between military-style and civilian style-firearms, you allow people to confuse the two. But then again--that's exactly the point, right?

I don't think you read my posts very much if that's what you think. I own a Stag Arms AR-15.

Maybe as a Virginian, we're not worried about the state taking our weapons, so we're not gun-shy (ha!) about the semantics.


Nope! Don't know you from Adam. So mea culpas if I misapplied the sentiment to you, but the point stands: the media and the left intentionally misuse the term "assault rifle" to evoke a negative reaction in people.

/have a Stag AR too! 1L--love having a real lefty gun
 
2012-12-11 09:38:39 PM
Has this been called an act of terrorism yet?
 
2012-12-11 09:38:42 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: vygramul: Adolf Oliver Nipples: "Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

Reposted from earlier because you just proved his point and made mine.

*shrug*

Walk into any gun store in VA and say you want to buy an assault rifle, and they'll show you an AR-15 (or similar) without any hesitation. There's a difference between a semi-automatic handgun and a revolver, and there's a difference between an AR-15 and a hunting rifle. Again: "Assault rifle" in this context conveys accurate information to anyone who knows anything about firearms.

In short, this complaint doesn't impress me.

It wouldn't have impressed me either if it hadn't predicted the legal environment of the next 25 years. Since I'm not terribly interested in seeing a repeat, I post that to ensure that the distinction never gets blurred again by people like you who are seemingly disinterested in the truth.


The truth is that CraicBaby probably understood completely what I was talking about when I said "assault rifle".

As a result, only truth was transmitted, and only truth was received. That's what I care about. Semantics - not so much.
 
2012-12-11 09:38:55 PM

Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?


Completely different culture and values?
 
2012-12-11 09:39:21 PM

Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?


Not like sarin attacks by religious nutjobs in subways. Nah, that shiat never happens....wonder why?
 
2012-12-11 09:39:25 PM
Adult male, and there's a lot that is not known by the public information officer. If you ask it, he probably doesn't know it.
 
2012-12-11 09:40:12 PM

Somacandra: Kit Fister: Sure and I'll be glad to keep being able to offer the guy with a dead battery a jump, help that pregnant lady change a flat, bandage up the kid who cuts himself at the company picnic, and be able to stay warm when my vehicle doesn't start in the dead of winter.

Unless you have an artificial vagina in that grab bag, you are definitely not prepared for all circumstances.


Well I wasn't going to say anything about that... >.>
 
2012-12-11 09:40:24 PM

Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?


True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.
 
2012-12-11 09:41:03 PM

Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?


Because they prefer to get stabby. Or tentacley.
 
2012-12-11 09:41:04 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I post that to ensure that the distinction never gets blurred again by people like you who are seemingly disinterested in the truth.


You should be angry at the manufacturers who deliberately design their weapons to give the public impression they give. Semi-automatic rifles don't have to look like pseudo-military-style testosterone injections they often do. But they want to indulge people to play like they're in the army or something. They like that fantasy and it helps sell those kinds of weapons. Make them all pink or plaid, I say.
 
2012-12-11 09:41:30 PM
Popcorn Johnny

>>> Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?

You mean like the dozen or so examples I've posted in the other "ban the guns" hysteria threads?


cameroncrazy1984

>>> Great Janitor: Gun control - when you're at a mall and you see a shooter, pull out your
>>> legally concealed firearm, and put two slugs into the shooters chest.

I wonder why nobody who is actually involved in a mass shooting has never done this before.
You mean like the dozen or so examples I've posted in the other "ban the guns" hysteria threads?


Don't let facts get in the way of your preconceived opinions though.
 
2012-12-11 09:42:06 PM

Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.


Really? Are we watching the same anime and reason the same manga?
 
2012-12-11 09:42:06 PM

BravadoGT: vygramul: BravadoGT: You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"

By failing to acknowledge the distinction between military-style and civilian style-firearms, you allow people to confuse the two. But then again--that's exactly the point, right?

I don't think you read my posts very much if that's what you think. I own a Stag Arms AR-15.

Maybe as a Virginian, we're not worried about the state taking our weapons, so we're not gun-shy (ha!) about the semantics.

Nope! Don't know you from Adam. So mea culpas if I misapplied the sentiment to you, but the point stands: the media and the left intentionally misuse the term "assault rifle" to evoke a negative reaction in people.

/have a Stag AR too! 1L--love having a real lefty gun


It's quite nice. I lucked into some accessories, including a few mags, when my friend screwed up and his wife made him get rid of his gun. (Their agreement was he wouldn't keep it at home. He did, she found out and made him turn it in to the police to be destroyed, but let him give me all his mags and ammo.)

Now I just need a .357 to take advantage of his speed-loaders and .357 rounds.
 
2012-12-11 09:42:10 PM

fanbladesaresharp: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Not like sarin attacks by religious nutjobs in subways. Nah, that shiat never happens....wonder why?


Oh gee did they legalize carrying Sarin gas?

Way to deflect. Sure sign of a losing argument there
 
2012-12-11 09:42:18 PM

Somacandra: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I have a childhood, boy scout fondness for bolt-action rifles....that sounds dirty, somehow

I completely agree. I remember my bolt-action play rifle and real rifle both quite fondly. And I enjoyed that snug secure feeling and *clack* of opening and closing the bolt-action at those right angles. I'm not afraid to say there was something kinda sexy about it either.


My favorite gun is my Grandpas old bolt action 22 (first gun I ever shot). There is something about a bolt action that just makes shooting more fun to me. Kind of like driving a car with a stickshift.
 
2012-12-11 09:42:45 PM
AssAsInAssassin:

Yes! And the gun-nut party does everything they can to be sure that psychopaths get those guns. Any effort to prevent psychopaths from getting guns is met with cries of "COMMIE!!!" and "Why do you hate America?" and "Obama is comin' fer our guns!!!" and "\HOW WE STOP COMMIE OBAMA IF'N WE AIN'T GOT OUR GUNS???"

Now you're just getting retarded because I pointed out that you'd tripped over your own dogma back there.

I'm sure at this point you realize your argument has lost ground and now you've retreated to a middle-school mocking..that's ok, I like to see foolish people act foolish.

I'll reiterate my point though. Psychopaths bent on destruction, will find a way. Even if you take away everybody's guns, knives, pepper-spray, fireworks, gasolin, sarin gas, etc etc...they will;

Fly fully loaded and fueled jetliners into high-rise office complexes - 3,267 or so dead and climbing
Make 4000lb bombs from fertilizer and diesel fuel (Oklahoma City bombing) 168 dead
Eat someones farking face off! Ooooh....better take away everybody's farking teeth!
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/face-eating-cannibal-attack-latest-bath - salts-incident/story?id=16470389

Are you even aware of the Bath School Massacre of 1927? The only firearm related death was when the murderer used a shotgun to detonate more dynamite!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.
 
2012-12-11 09:43:37 PM

Mugato: Has this been called an act of terrorism yet?


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-11 09:43:42 PM

Kit Fister: Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.

Really? Are we watching the same anime and reason the same manga?


Probably not, mine won't go past the content filter at work.
 
2012-12-11 09:43:45 PM

MooseUpNorth: aimtastic: What a horrible thing to happen when people were just trying to celebrate the birth of Clacka.

I was just about to make an inappropriate and ill-timed joke about the War on Clackamas, but I see it would be redundant.


Your morning talk show has been cancelled and all related advertising has been pulled. Also, those responsive for this post have been sacked.
 
2012-12-11 09:44:41 PM

grunthos: I'll reiterate my point though. Psychopaths bent on destruction, will find a way. Even if you take away everybody's guns, knives, pepper-spray, fireworks, gasolin, sarin gas, etc etc...they will;


most won't go to the trouble. Most homicides are because someone with a gun got pissed off and it was handy.
 
2012-12-11 09:45:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.


Yeah, they don't--wait, what?
 
2012-12-11 09:45:11 PM

Kit Fister: Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.

Really? Are we watching the same anime and reason the same manga?


Futanari motorcycle races in space?
 
2012-12-11 09:45:27 PM

Bathia_Mapes:
Glad to hear you and your family are okay.


Thanks--it was definitely unnerving.

And not to get all "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night" but my coworker's son's girlfriend's mom was in Macy's and saw it happen. Christ.
 
2012-12-11 09:45:58 PM

BravadoGT: You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"


I think people get confused because they think the A in AR-15 stands for "Assault" when it actually means Armalite, for the company that created it.
If anything its more of a modern follow on to the M1 carbine with a higher velocity round.

/A round designed specifically for its accuracy, low recoil, and flat trajectory.
/Performance that came at a heavy cost to its lethality... ironically enough.
 
2012-12-11 09:46:01 PM

grunthos: AssAsInAssassin:

Yes! And the gun-nut party does everything they can to be sure that psychopaths get those guns. Any effort to prevent psychopaths from getting guns is met with cries of "COMMIE!!!" and "Why do you hate America?" and "Obama is comin' fer our guns!!!" and "\HOW WE STOP COMMIE OBAMA IF'N WE AIN'T GOT OUR GUNS???"

Now you're just getting retarded because I pointed out that you'd tripped over your own dogma back there.

I'm sure at this point you realize your argument has lost ground and now you've retreated to a middle-school mocking..that's ok, I like to see foolish people act foolish.

I'll reiterate my point though. Psychopaths bent on destruction, will find a way. Even if you take away everybody's guns, knives, pepper-spray, fireworks, gasolin, sarin gas, etc etc...they will;

Fly fully loaded and fueled jetliners into high-rise office complexes - 3,267 or so dead and climbing
Make 4000lb bombs from fertilizer and diesel fuel (Oklahoma City bombing) 168 dead
Eat someones farking face off! Ooooh....better take away everybody's farking teeth!
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/face-eating-cannibal-attack-latest-bath - salts-incident/story?id=16470389

Are you even aware of the Bath School Massacre of 1927? The only firearm related death was when the murderer used a shotgun to detonate more dynamite!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.


I accept that humans can be evil, violent creatures. Instead of trying to change the Nature of the species, I settle for being able to stay out of their way mostly, and being able to defend myself if I have shiatty luck
 
2012-12-11 09:46:14 PM

Tellingthem: There is something about a bolt action that just makes shooting more fun to me. Kind of like driving a car with a stickshift.


Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe it too, actually :-) I never had that same fun with a lever-action, for example. And to correct myself, I think it was lever-action rifles that were used in those Speed Racer sequences.
 
2012-12-11 09:46:18 PM
More evidence that the dude was a terrible shot: An eyewitness on Twitter said that the shooter looked straight at him and aimed, but he missed.
 
2012-12-11 09:46:20 PM
MrKoon

Shoot apparently was wearing body armor...


Just like the Theater shooter in Colorado huh?
cops lied to you
 
2012-12-11 09:46:21 PM

Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?


My guess has more to do with the idea that Japan is not a gun culture like we are, regardless of the gun laws.
 
2012-12-11 09:47:38 PM

FunkOut: Kit Fister: Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.

Really? Are we watching the same anime and reason the same manga?

Futanari motorcycle races in space?


I have the weirdest boner right now...
 
2012-12-11 09:47:40 PM

Hobodeluxe: fanbladesaresharp: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Not like sarin attacks by religious nutjobs in subways. Nah, that shiat never happens....wonder why?

Oh gee did they legalize carrying Sarin gas?

Way to deflect. Sure sign of a losing argument there


Legalizing drugs would do way more in reducing gun violence than making guns illegal. The year DC was, "murder capital of the world," 84% of the homicides were drug-related. If guns are illegal, they'll just ship them inside bales of marijuana.

That's not to say it wouldn't eventually have an impact on domestic murder and school shootings. (I say eventually because you're even LESS likely to round up all the guns than you are to round up all the illegal aliens.)
 
2012-12-11 09:48:05 PM

Dallymo: And not to get all "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night" but my coworker's son's girlfriend's mom was in Macy's and saw it happen. Christ.


My father works at the Stillwater, OK school where that kid blew his brains out in the hallway a few weeks ago. Especially until you know they're ok, it makes you want to throw up.
 
2012-12-11 09:48:40 PM

PowerSlacker

The shooter is "neutralized" according the local police. That's an awesome phrase.

Translation: Shooter committed suicide as (s)he planned to and the impotent doughnut munchers are taking credit.
 
2012-12-11 09:48:50 PM

Kit Fister: FunkOut: Kit Fister: Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.

Really? Are we watching the same anime and reason the same manga?

Futanari motorcycle races in space?

I have the weirdest boner right now...


That tends to happen to me too when I watch the kind of anime I watch.
 
2012-12-11 09:49:27 PM

Somacandra: Tellingthem: There is something about a bolt action that just makes shooting more fun to me. Kind of like driving a car with a stickshift.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe it too, actually :-) I never had that same fun with a lever-action, for example. And to correct myself, I think it was lever-action rifles that were used in those Speed Racer sequences.


I can take or leave semi auto rifles, for the most part, save for their necessity in 3-gun matches, but I do love long range accuracy shooting, and that takes a bolt gun.
 
2012-12-11 09:49:48 PM
The police confirmed that the shooter took his own life.
 
2012-12-11 09:50:02 PM

Clutch2013: Mrtraveler01: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

It's never too early for gun control advocates to spout smug, sanctimonious, and vague suggestions that amount to 90s-era Brady Campaign pipe dreams.

you don't hear about this kind of stuff happening in Japan. Wonder why?

Completely different culture and values?

True.

Japan doesn't glorify violence like we do in the US.

Yeah, they don't--wait, what?


Everyone knows their anime is all just Bronies.
 
2012-12-11 09:50:21 PM

CraicBaby: More evidence that the dude was a terrible shot: An eyewitness on Twitter said that the shooter looked straight at him and aimed, but he missed.


Actually, that may be evidence that the shooter was using a Mini-14 and not an AR-15.
 
2012-12-11 09:50:26 PM

Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.


so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!
 
2012-12-11 09:50:36 PM

davidphogan: I should be in the kitchen: Too bad Portlanders are all a bunch of pussy liberals, an armed Real American(TM) could've taken down the suspect with one shot without a chance of accidentally hitting the panicking customers running about.

/should be pretty OBVIOUS that was sarcasm
//Not pro- or anti-gun. I own one but think it would be incredibly irresponsible to pull it out in a crowded, enclosed space like a mall.

I know you were joking, but more Portlanders with CCW than I've met anywhere else I've spent time. It's really, really easy to get one as long as you don't apply in Multnomah County.


I grew up to the west of Portland, where suburbia meets farmland... It's an interesting mix up there of hippies, hipsters, and hicks.
 
2012-12-11 09:51:51 PM
blog.boironusa.com
 
2012-12-11 09:52:02 PM

way south: BravadoGT: You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"

I think people get confused because they think the A in AR-15 stands for "Assault" when it actually means Armalite, for the company that created it.
If anything its more of a modern follow on to the M1 carbine with a higher velocity round.

/A round designed specifically for its accuracy, low recoil, and flat trajectory.
/Performance that came at a heavy cost to its lethality... ironically enough.


Not sure I buy the lethality drop. Just ask the Marines on Okinawa if a 6mm round has lethality issues.
 
2012-12-11 09:52:18 PM

I should be in the kitchen: davidphogan: I should be in the kitchen: Too bad Portlanders are all a bunch of pussy liberals, an armed Real American(TM) could've taken down the suspect with one shot without a chance of accidentally hitting the panicking customers running about.

/should be pretty OBVIOUS that was sarcasm
//Not pro- or anti-gun. I own one but think it would be incredibly irresponsible to pull it out in a crowded, enclosed space like a mall.

I know you were joking, but more Portlanders with CCW than I've met anywhere else I've spent time. It's really, really easy to get one as long as you don't apply in Multnomah County.

I grew up to the west of Portland, where suburbia meets farmland... It's an interesting mix up there of hippies, hipsters, and hicks.


So it's basically like suburban Denver where the theater shooting took place. Interesting.

Seems like a lot more shootings happen more out West than they do out East (Virginia Tech being the exception)
 
2012-12-11 09:52:36 PM

clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?


Not at all. I certainly hope every effort is made to make it easier for the average citizen to arm himself in order to better defend his/her family should something like this occur. Excellent point.
 
2012-12-11 09:52:39 PM

Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.

so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!


*facepalm*
 
2012-12-11 09:53:03 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?


Concealed Carriers fantasize about this scenario.
 
2012-12-11 09:53:50 PM
 
2012-12-11 09:54:54 PM

aninconvenienterection: Not at all. I certainly hope every effort is made to make it easier for the average citizen to arm himself in order to better defend his/her family should something like this occur. Excellent point.


LOL

As if having more people armed would've made the situation any better.
 
2012-12-11 09:55:12 PM
Oregon, where even the mass murderers are slackers.

//more like a double-homicider
 
2012-12-11 09:55:22 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.


There are a couple of handguns that shoot .223 and 5.56. Most would look like a little AR to most people though. Keltec makes two, and there are AR Pistols and a couple Fudd type "pistol" frame rifles.

More than likely, some flatfoot knuckledrager Po-lice got out their service rifle and re-charged the bolt during the run in because he / she couldn't remember if there was a round in the chamber. (This would put an unspent police .223 round on the floor.)

If there were cops there, .223 on the floor means nothing.
 
2012-12-11 09:55:32 PM

Somacandra: Tellingthem: There is something about a bolt action that just makes shooting more fun to me. Kind of like driving a car with a stickshift.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe it too, actually :-) I never had that same fun with a lever-action, for example. And to correct myself, I think it was lever-action rifles that were used in those Speed Racer sequences.


As an aside, I think Fleming used the reverse analogy in Casino Royale - describing shifting gears as feeling as mechanically satisfying as operating a bolt action rifle
 
2012-12-11 09:55:55 PM
Kit Fister "I accept that humans can be evil, violent creatures. Instead of trying to change the Nature of the species, I settle for being able to stay out of their way mostly, and being able to defend myself if I have shiatty luck"

I wholeheartedly agree. In case my point got lost in my multiple posts to that Ass guy.... taking weapons away from the rest of us, leaves us defenseless against the nuts who will *always* find something to attack with.
 
2012-12-11 09:56:04 PM

Harry_Seldon: Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?

Concealed Carriers fantasize about this scenario.


We do? And you know this for a fact? I once got close to A situation where I thought I might just have to use a gun, and didn't because sucking up to the guy and letting him be completely right in his tirade calmed him down enough he put the knife away and backed off, I was sick to my stomach for a week. I know guys that have killed, and it haunts you worse. Anyone who thinks that it's anything but the worst possible necessary evil is lying to themselves.
 
2012-12-11 09:56:33 PM

Harry_Seldon: Popcorn Johnny: Pharacyde: I went to my local mall just today. I have a CHP but this mall specifically states "No weapons or firearms allowed, concealed or otherwise."
Makes me think twice about shopping there.

Criminals and not jobs don't care about signs.

Because you'd totally engage a shooter and take him out, right?

Concealed Carriers fantasize about this scenario.


I'm not sure it's an unreasonable scenario. After all, part of concealed-carry is proficiency qualification. And plenty of CCW holders have WAY more range time than cops do.

That being said, it's the mall's property. People who own property are entitled to regulate the behavior of those people they allow on their property.
 
2012-12-11 09:56:35 PM

jafiwam: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

There are a couple of handguns that shoot .223 and 5.56. Most would look like a little AR to most people though. Keltec makes two, and there are AR Pistols and a couple Fudd type "pistol" frame rifles.

More than likely, some flatfoot knuckledrager Po-lice got out their service rifle and re-charged the bolt during the run in because he / she couldn't remember if there was a round in the chamber. (This would put an unspent police .223 round on the floor.)

If there were cops there, .223 on the floor means nothing.


No shots were fired by the police.
 
2012-12-11 09:57:00 PM

mgshamster: My guess has more to do with the idea that Japan is not a gun culture like we are, regardless of the gun laws.


gun culture has nothing to do with crime.

Gun culture is a boogeyman.
 
2012-12-11 09:58:18 PM
RealAmericanHero [TotalFark] Smartest Funniest
2012-12-11 08:07:27 PM

More likely than a good citizen with a gun taking out a random shooter or assassin before he can do heavy damage, I think we'll see a story in some area with a lot of conceal carry where 3 people try to play heroes, all end up shooting each other out of their confusion and inability to process the situation beyond thinking "this is it, this is my moment to prove why I've been doing this!" and then the actual gunman gets away.

Naturally the loss of life would be sad, but it'd be one of the more productive losses of life in terms of proving points.

Once again doing everything you can to avoid the facts.

Fact:
When armed citizens lawfully use their guns to defend themselves they fire fewer shots and more accurately than cops

NYPD: ALL 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire

Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive

FBI Stats: Gun Sales Up, Violent Crime Down
 
2012-12-11 09:58:37 PM

moops: Ah, Clackamas Town Center. The "Town Center" is a mall. There's an Olive Garden and everything.


No. Olive garden is across the street.
 
2012-12-11 10:01:42 PM

OnlyM3: Fact:
When armed citizens lawfully use their guns to defend themselves they fire fewer shots and more accurately than cops


None of the articles you cited claimed that.
 
2012-12-11 10:02:46 PM

Mrtraveler01: aninconvenienterection: Not at all. I certainly hope every effort is made to make it easier for the average citizen to arm himself in order to better defend his/her family should something like this occur. Excellent point.

LOL

As if having more people armed would've made the situation any better.


This makes a lot of assumptions. At best, it may have stopped the guy sooner. At worst, it would have been no different. Why? Well most shooters understand the rule of not shooting unless you're sure. No one carrying a gun for protection honestly believes in being John Wayne or Bruce Willis to face down the bad guy, unless they have the opportunity and the need.

Honestly, and this comes from being someone with a lot of training in all manner of defensive firearms use and also law enforcement training on the legalities of things, it's incredibly dumb to rush in and go full on assault, and your best bet is getting small and getting to cover first and foremost. Be defensive, and only engage if there's a need and an opportunity. You are not a hero and chances of a face off resulting in you winning are negligible.
 
2012-12-11 10:03:00 PM

Mrbogey: mgshamster: My guess has more to do with the idea that Japan is not a gun culture like we are, regardless of the gun laws.

gun culture has nothing to do with crime.

Gun culture is a boogeyman.


Eh, I really don't have a say in the matter. I'm not well educated on these types of criminal statistics nor on the usage of guns in crimes by culture. My basic idea was that people in a gun culture would be more likely to commit crimes with guns, whereas those who are not in a gun culture would commit crimes with something else (maybe something more akin to the culture where they are). Of course, there's no validity behind my thought process, and I could easily see how it could be disproved, so really, it was probably more of a waste of a post than anything (kind of like this explanation).
 
2012-12-11 10:03:55 PM

Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.

so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!

*facepalm*


I think this is what he may look like...

saptapper.com
 
2012-12-11 10:04:45 PM

Kit Fister: This makes a lot of assumptions. At best, it may have stopped the guy sooner. At worst, it would have been no different. Why? Well most shooters understand the rule of not shooting unless you're sure. No one carrying a gun for protection honestly believes in being John Wayne or Bruce Willis to face down the bad guy, unless they have the opportunity and the need.


I'm more on the side I bolded. But it's a reasonable assessment nonetheless.
 
2012-12-11 10:05:47 PM

vygramul: way south: BravadoGT: You and others use that phrase because it frightens the less-educated public ("ASSAULT weapon? that sounds so aggressive, like military weapons. People don't need weapons designed for 'assault' for defense?"

I think people get confused because they think the A in AR-15 stands for "Assault" when it actually means Armalite, for the company that created it.
If anything its more of a modern follow on to the M1 carbine with a higher velocity round.

/A round designed specifically for its accuracy, low recoil, and flat trajectory.
/Performance that came at a heavy cost to its lethality... ironically enough.

Not sure I buy the lethality drop. Just ask the Marines on Okinawa if a 6mm round has lethality issues.


Thing is we'd have to compare 40 to 70 grain 5.56mm with the old 190 grain 8mm bruisers from great war era battle rifles.
Assault rounds do serious damage, no question. But the rounds they eventually replaced could strait up murder a guy at over a thousand yards.

Its a night and day difference in the physics of it all.
 
2012-12-11 10:06:34 PM

Mrtraveler01: OnlyM3: Fact:
When armed citizens lawfully use their guns to defend themselves they fire fewer shots and more accurately than cops

None of the articles you cited claimed that.


Just for the sake of argument, how would that information, if supported by the statistics, affect your opinion?
 
2012-12-11 10:07:09 PM
someonelse


Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

You mean like when the administration orders gun retailers to allow Felons to buy firearms?
 
2012-12-11 10:08:53 PM

vygramul: Mrtraveler01: OnlyM3: Fact:
When armed citizens lawfully use their guns to defend themselves they fire fewer shots and more accurately than cops

None of the articles you cited claimed that.

Just for the sake of argument, how would that information, if supported by the statistics, affect your opinion?


I think it's a hard thing to gauge overall.

But if there's evidence that CCW holders are more accurate shots than police officers, then I can see some validity to his claim. But right now, it's just something he pulled out of his ass based on assumptions.
 
2012-12-11 10:10:32 PM

Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.

so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!

*facepalm*


Hey you were the one who implied that since you can't totally solve a problem you might as well ignore it.
 
2012-12-11 10:11:47 PM

CraicBaby: jafiwam: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

There are a couple of handguns that shoot .223 and 5.56. Most would look like a little AR to most people though. Keltec makes two, and there are AR Pistols and a couple Fudd type "pistol" frame rifles.

More than likely, some flatfoot knuckledrager Po-lice got out their service rifle and re-charged the bolt during the run in because he / she couldn't remember if there was a round in the chamber. (This would put an unspent police .223 round on the floor.)

If there were cops there, .223 on the floor means nothing.

No shots were fired by the police.


I am not saying they did. Read it again, more slowly... A r o u n d i n t h e c h a m b e r, and the police c h a r g i n g t h e r i f l e a S E C O N D T I M E would take the unspent, unfired round out of the chamber and onto the floor, as the next round from the magazine into the chamber.

You stupid motherfarkers shouldn't post in any gun-related thread. That error like not knowing what the steering wheel in your car is for.
 
2012-12-11 10:12:05 PM

cgraves67: He snapped when someone wished him Merry Clackamas for the 10,000th time.


This OR "happy holiday"
 
2012-12-11 10:12:24 PM
CraicBaby: More evidence that the dude was a terrible shot: An eyewitness on Twitter said that the shooter looked straight at him and aimed, but he missed.


--------------

Seems legit
 
2012-12-11 10:12:46 PM

OnlyM3: MrKoon

Shoot apparently was wearing body armor...

Just like the Theater shooter in Colorado huh?
cops lied to you


When did the cops claim it was bulletproof after the first day? It seemed like people were confused about it at first, but I'm pretty sure they cleared it up and explained it was just a tactical vest, not bulletproof.
 
2012-12-11 10:13:41 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-shootin g s-violence-dec-910-teen-boy-shot-critically-wounded-20121209,0,6956137 .story/a> 

2 killed in Chicago yesterd-.....oh right it's Fark.com where the narrative is it's white people with the gun violence problem, my mistake.

Fark.com, where we ignore black violence because we're latent racists that just assume it's part of their nature and that they don't have the intellectual capacity to make better decisions or be outraged at the decisions others make.
 
2012-12-11 10:13:52 PM

Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.

so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!

*facepalm*

Hey you were the one who implied that since you can't totally solve a problem you might as well ignore it.


You have confused "not attempting to solve a problem in exactly the way that you advocate" with "ignoring a problem". The two concepts are not actually equivalent.
 
2012-12-11 10:14:05 PM
I'm going to be honest. I carry a concealed pen because I fantasise about a situation arising where I have to stab someone in the neck with it.
 
2012-12-11 10:14:58 PM

vygramul: CraicBaby: vygramul: CraicBaby: Only 2 confirmed dead (not including shooter) so far. Dude wasn't a very good shot.

Most of these assholes aren't. Or they use sub-optimal weapons and accessories.

He supposedly fired at least 60 rounds, too. So yeah, probably a combination of inexperience, shiatty weaponry & shiatty accessories.

I once heard a German WWII vet say that he wasn't very jealous of the M-1 because it encouraged spray-and-pray. He said their bolt-actions incentivized aiming. He's probably over-stating it, but there's probably an element of truth in it. Same is true with these idiots who carry an assault rifle and 100-round mags thinking they can be Charlie Sheen in Hot Shots Part Deux. Instead, they're one of the bad guys in Hot Shots, emptying their belt-fed quad-.50s and only kill the comic relief.


Ever wonder why the military limits magazines to 30 rounds?

Go belt-fed, or go home.
 
2012-12-11 10:16:07 PM

USP .45: 2 killed in Chicago yesterd-.....oh right it's Fark.com where the narrative is it's white people with the gun violence problem, my mistake. Chicago, it'd be news if there wasn't a shooting there that day.


FTFY

USP .45: Fark.com, where we ignore black violence because we're latent racists that just assume it's part of their nature and that they don't have the intellectual capacity to make better decisions or be outraged at the decisions others make. act persecuted even though we have absolutely no reason to


FTFY as well.

/You're welcome
 
2012-12-11 10:16:53 PM

someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: someonelse: Lt. Cheese Weasel: clancifer: Is it too early to talk about responsible gun legislation?

Of course the relevant issue isn't whether violent criminals obey the law, but whether gun retailers do. But keep dancing with your straw man.

Right, so punish the lawful, ignore the lawless and you have a very nice cardboard box to bloviate more nonesense in the town square.

Wow. You're building your own personal army of straw men, aren't you.


Nope, I have the law and Constitution on my side, you have your liberal pillow biting nonsense on yours. Carry on.
 
2012-12-11 10:17:01 PM

Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Hobodeluxe: Kit Fister: Here's a thought for you, YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE AWAY HUMAN MADNESS.

so let's give all the crazy people access to guns!!!!

*facepalm*

Hey you were the one who implied that since you can't totally solve a problem you might as well ignore it.


Actually, I've never said not advocated that. However, the steps it would take to make a realistic dent in the problem (end the war on drugs, pass measures for comprehensive mental health care, screening, and legal protections/restrictions based on mental status, etc) are about as likely to occur in my lifetime as getting Jessica alba to blow me while I orally pleasure Cote de Pablo, I'll accept reality and fight against pipe dream positions by the intellectually dishonest.
 
2012-12-11 10:17:21 PM

Mrtraveler01: OnlyM3: Fact:
When armed citizens lawfully use their guns to defend themselves they fire fewer shots and more accurately than cops

None of the articles you cited claimed that.


when there is a controversial shooting of a minority suspect by mostly white officers, when aren't the number of rounds fired at the suspect called into question by the media?

I await your results.
 
2012-12-11 10:17:40 PM

jafiwam: CraicBaby: jafiwam: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: CraicBaby: Marine1: CraicBaby: Reports of a .233 round found on the ground. Y'all who know more about guns can probably figure otu better than me what kind of gun it might be.

Probably .223.

AR-15 derived weapon is my first guess. Not definite though.

Oops yeah, .223. Typo.

Well, there goes my handgun theory.

There are a couple of handguns that shoot .223 and 5.56. Most would look like a little AR to most people though. Keltec makes two, and there are AR Pistols and a couple Fudd type "pistol" frame rifles.

More than likely, some flatfoot knuckledrager Po-lice got out their service rifle and re-charged the bolt during the run in because he / she couldn't remember if there was a round in the chamber. (This would put an unspent police .223 round on the floor.)

If there were cops there, .223 on the floor means nothing.

No shots were fired by the police.

I am not saying they did. Read it again, more slowly... A r o u n d i n t h e c h a m b e r, and the police c h a r g i n g t h e r i f l e a S E C O N D T I M E would take the unspent, unfired round out of the chamber and onto the floor, as the next round from the magazine into the chamber.

You stupid motherfarkers shouldn't post in any gun-related thread. That error like not knowing what the steering wheel in your car is for.


He's probably still confused about what ammo clips are needed for his AK-47 style AR-15 assault rifle
 
2012-12-11 10:19:46 PM

USP .45: when there is a controversial shooting of a minority suspect by mostly white officers, when aren't the number of rounds fired at the suspect called into question by the media?


What does that have to do with whether or not CCW holders are more accurate shots? You're just implying that CCW holders are more accurate only because they fired so many rounds while falsely assuming that a CCW holder wouldn't fire the same number if not more rounds. 

Seriously, this is a flimsy argument you guys are pushing here.
 
2012-12-11 10:19:52 PM

way south: Thing is we'd have to compare 40 to 70 grain 5.56mm with the old 190 grain 8mm bruisers from great war era battle rifles.
Assault rounds do serious damage, no question. But the rounds they eventually replaced could strait up murder a guy at over a thousand yards.

Its a night and day difference in the physics of it all.


I have yet to see any study that shows significant differences between the rounds. My colleague who worked with the Marines at Quantico is a rabid disbeliever in "stopping power". I'm inclined to believe him.
 
2012-12-11 10:20:00 PM

Kit Fister: aninconv


Thank you. I just mentioned to my wife that this is one of the times when being an armed citizen could actually pay off. At the first sign of serious trouble like this, the smart move would be to retreat with your loved ones, seek exit first, cover and/or a hiding spot second and assume an armed defensive position if exit is not an option.

I fail to see the irresponsibility of this behavior, and respectfully reject any objection to my right (and frankly, duty) to do any less.
 
2012-12-11 10:20:41 PM

FunkOut: I'm going to be honest. I carry a concealed pen because I fantasise about a situation arising where I have to stab someone in the neck with it.


They make those.

/justsayin

poppin'
 
2012-12-11 10:21:15 PM

Mrtraveler01: USP .45: when there is a controversial shooting of a minority suspect by mostly white officers, when aren't the number of rounds fired at the suspect called into question by the media?

What does that have to do with whether or not CCW holders are more accurate shots? You're just implying that CCW holders are more accurate only because they fired so many rounds while falsely assuming that a CCW holder wouldn't fire the same number if not more rounds. 

Seriously, this is a flimsy argument you guys are pushing here.


I've made 2 unrelated comments and now you're calling it "you guys" and a full on argument.

Get a grip kid.
 
2012-12-11 10:22:03 PM

Somacandra: I have been informed that Bi-Mart is the place for Christmas savings.


Thank FSM, I wear Depends. Oh, wait.
 
2012-12-11 10:23:37 PM
Cops tend to shoot a lot when they shoot.

May as well. It's that first round you have to answer for. The rest are pretty much freebies.
 
2012-12-11 10:23:52 PM
It's a real shame what happened to those early reports.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:01 PM
I'm going with this wasn't random. I'll bet he had motive, knew his targets, and where they were.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:13 PM

Mrtraveler01: vygramul: Mrtraveler01: OnlyM3: Fact:
When armed citizens lawfully use their guns to defend themselves they fire fewer shots and more accurately than cops

None of the articles you cited claimed that.

Just for the sake of argument, how would that information, if supported by the statistics, affect your opinion?

I think it's a hard thing to gauge overall.

But if there's evidence that CCW holders are more accurate shots than police officers, then I can see some validity to his claim. But right now, it's just something he pulled out of his ass based on assumptions.


Well I can tell you a could of things:

- cops who are in specialized units like SWAT are more proficient with firearms than most average cops.
- the vast majority of cops are only required to qualify yearly, and do so.
- it is readily observable fact when shooting alongside officers practicing for qualification that they lack basic fundamentals of shooting and safety, and are less accurate than the average gun owner.

Can I cite articles to back this up? No. But I invite you to talk with police officers, police range officers, instructors, and so on, And accompany me to the police range a few times to observe for yourself if you like.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:30 PM
Lt. Cheese Weasel: Nope, I have the law and Constitution on my side, you have your liberal pillow biting nonsense on yours. Carry on.



That anti-gay slur certainly is allowed under the Farq, right?
 
2012-12-11 10:25:24 PM

p4p3rm4t3: I'm going with this wasn't random. I'll bet he had motive, knew his targets, and where they were.


He was aiming at random people in the mall.

I'm going with Jared Loughner wannabe.
 
2012-12-11 10:25:37 PM

AssAsInAssassin: Dimensio: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: AssAsInAssassin: BlippityBleep: the swiss are laughing at the idea that lots of guns are the problem.

And sane people are laughing at you.

/When we're not crying about you.

do you have a counterpoint about how the swiss run an amazing country, they'r