"We're a non-profit and we're poor. This cheap and demeaning gesture is all we could do."

"What about that fat f*ck in the Rolls that runs the place, how does he get paid?"

"Oh, well, you see, the structure for management c..."

"No, what about that fat f*ck in the Rolls Royce who runs the place, how does he get paid?"

"Those who direct the managerial ..."

"NO! WHAT ABOUT THAT FAT F*CK IN THE ROLLS ROYCE WHO RUNS THE PLACE? HOW DOES HE GET PAID?"

"SECURITY! TERRORIST ALERT!"

"I turned my head and started to cry because I was so angry, although she thought I was crying because of the gesture. They just don't get that I'd rather they pay me a better wage so I wouldn't have to go to a food bank."

Damn, just... damn.

These are the people you conservatives really want to run our healthcare sys...oh wait, they sound exactly like the kind of people Republicans love.

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

$10 profit does not mean $10 revenue when sold. That means it's revenue - cost. To say "you're making your company $10 of profit per hour" would already be assuming you're being paid a certain wage - so there would be room for being paid more.

Your hilarious misunderstanding of what "profit" means aside, let's be real here. We live in a time when corporate profit margins are at all-time highs, with wages stagnating. To contend, with zero supporting evidence other than "they want to pay lower wages", that any company needs to pay low wages because they aren't profitable enough is ludicrous. Your scenario is in no way resembling the reality of this, or any other situation. Show me where UPMC is hurting financially, and perhaps you have a valid argument here.

Socialize the costs, privatize the profits. That's the American way.

Here. Now stop complaining and go trade your pay for ramen, soap and tampons.

Either decide that you want to live as a serf under some corporate feudal system or if you want to take your country, and your world back.

Make no mistake, the enemy of America are the wealthy and the corporatists. They launched a coup on this country. Remember oil going out of sight for no readily apparent reason? Yeah, that was them sucking all the the money possible out of the bottom of the system. The Wall Street crash? That was money being sucked out of the top of the system. They systematically looted our wealth from bottom to top and blamed it on speculators and black people buying homes, respectively.

Now they sit on their wealth while the nation that played host to so many of them bleeds and suffers. And these insufferable pricks use that misery to hold this nation hostage and demand the dismantling of decades worth of hard fought labor law and lower taxes for themselves.

Power has never simply quit the field. Never in history has power just stepped aside or stopped seeking MORE power. It has to be driven off with blades and bullets. Power only understands power. These people have no intention of stopping until they have as much power and control over our lives as possible. The see this nation as something for them to rightfully plunder, citing the fact that people like themselves built this country and created this economy. Never mind that if any of the wealthy families of today never existed, somebody else would have done those same things. But they believe themselves to be special, above us.

They need to be shown that they are not special. That they bleed and suffer and burn like those that they tread upon so callously.

Musket Balls.

Faces.

It's time to take out the Tories, again.

Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

It's the same way at Wal-Mart. They don't allow you to put it on credit toward your paycheck but their employees buying goods from them is basically the same. If they pay someone $10 an hour but that person buys $200-$300 a month from their company, they are only paying that person about $6 an hour after their purchases. If you figure that most people employed at Wal-Mart have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart(because it's all they can afford and still survive), then Wal-Mart is getting cheap labor because they don't pay shiat for the crap they sell anyway. It's a goddamn shame that people more people don't realize just how bad some companies are farking folks in this country and demand a change. I think we need about 2-3 days of a national strike but most people can't afford to miss that much work.

Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.

Oh good! Now your colleagues can actually see you hit up the food bank at work. How dignifying.

That sounds about right. Don't pay your workers enough? Why not open a food bank so other people can buy them food that you won't pay them enough for.

This is exactly what you get with capitalism.

TheWhoppah: gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?

Wal-MART pays a company millions of dollars per year to run a call center where social workers direct Wal-MART employees to the nearest charity food bank, help them apply for welfare, food stamps and rent assistance. Every Wal-MART store has a poster in the breakroom with the phone number and they also print up little inserts to put into the envelope with the employee's paycheck. New employee orientation includes a section on calling the "Resources for Living" hotline. All of this is cheaper than just paying the employees a living wage.

Actually this is a form of Corporate Welfare. Wal*MART would have to pay higher wages to get the kind of stable employess that they want... you know, the kind of person with a home who doesn't have to steal food to get buy. Resources for Living allows Wal*MART to pay wages that would normally only attract teenagers and homeless people but government and charities pick up the cost difference so they get actual human employees instead of thieves, children and meth monkeys.

gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?

Wal-MART pays a company millions of dollars per year to run a call center where social workers direct Wal-MART employees to the nearest charity food bank, help them apply for welfare, food stamps and rent assistance. Every Wal-MART store has a poster in the breakroom with the phone number and they also print up little inserts to put into the envelope with the employee's paycheck. New employee orientation includes a section on calling the "Resources for Living" hotline. All of this is cheaper than just paying the employees a living wage.

My somewhat relevant story:

I once worked at an Aramark managed hotel. It was remote, so I lived in Aramark housing and ate an Aramark food plan. Aramark also owned all of the surrounding businesses, the convenience store, other food places, even the local health clinic. One could borrow against their salary for their needs and indeed, every dime they spent without driving for at least 3 hours (most employees didn't have a car) was spent in a company store. It was a remarkable study in how amenable they thought they were being.

uh... sounds like a lot of people in this thread need to be poor once just to see how it is. what state is this upmc in?

just wow...

I think madam Guillotine needs to show up at the next boardroom meeting.Ya think a boardroom filled with headless corpses of ex-execs might... just might.. be enough to scare wallstreet and its ilk that maybe they need to stop being dicks to the rest of the population?

It'd be interesting to see what the effect would be if it happened. I imagine we'd see the executives fleeing for armed and defended compounds and the people on Fox freak out that the peons are rising up...

Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Better horrible than autistic.

..... wow.

ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.

What the fark kind of widget is it and how long does it take to make it that Bob gets $10 for each one he makes?

freewill: skullkrusher: I think madam Guillotine needs to show up at the next boardroom meeting.Ya think a boardroom filled with headless corpses of ex-execs might... just might.. be enough to scare wallstreet and its ilk that maybe they need to stop being dicks to the rest of the population?

[cdn.newsday.com image 600x399]

He's in.

Boardrooms full of executives never get killed off in reality. I dont know why, logically they should be killed off by some disgruntled something or other on a regular basis but it just doesnt happen. It would have to happen alot, i mean AAAALOOOOT to have any affect on the american psyche, so just once or twice wouldnt cut it. But the fact is, executives never get killed by their lesser peons, like farking ever. Its so farking rare that it becomes a national event whenever it happens every other decade.

By all logic and numbers they should be dying in farking droves. Games and fanfare seem to be doing the trick in keeping the peasants in line.

If they had to hire staff to operate the food bank I will piss myself laughing.

willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Good lord, you can make $1-$3m a year salary working at a non-profit!?? My country has gone insane.

I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

a small raise and a bulk food purchasing co'op for the employees would've met both goals.

This is the reason unions form, because the management are douche canoes. Looking at the link to the union gripes they mention that UPMC put up a site with the awesome spelling www.upmccares.com. Alas that website says "The page you are attempting to reach is not available outside the UPMC network."

Here's where the person in the above story complains about UPMC tax exempt status and there's this juicy bit in there:

"The controller's report found that the current total value of all tax-exempt property in the county was $17 billion"


WTF how you get $17B in property in one county?

When was the last time UPMC was audited? They say that they are giving away a lot of free health care, but who knows.

Labor's one of (if not the) biggest cost in healthcare. There's no magic fairy dust that's somehow going to sprinkle more money down for the workers without raising the hospital's costs somehow. And no amount of government intervention is going to change that.

Bosses love to see their employees struggling and groveling.

gadian: My somewhat relevant story:

I once worked at an Aramark managed hotel. It was remote, so I lived in Aramark housing and ate an Aramark food plan. Aramark also owned all of the surrounding businesses, the convenience store, other food places, even the local health clinic. One could borrow against their salary for their needs and indeed, every dime they spent without driving for at least 3 hours (most employees didn't have a car) was spent in a company store. It was a remarkable study in how amenable they thought they were being.

I know exactly where you are talking about.

/heard many horror stories over the years

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

So everyone else is an asshole because you got caught out in a straw man attack?

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Liquidation. You run a lousy company, and you're doing Bob no favors by not being able to pay him a living wage. It'll hurt, but it'll be better in the long run.

orclover: Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.

I think some Walmarts did this and got biatched at for it. The idea was that rather than helping people know where the safety nets are and how to make sure they're in them, they should have been paying real actual livable wages. If you're working full time and need help to survive, even with minimum wage, it means the economy is farked up, or you've farked up real bad somewhere and need to reevaluate your life.

Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Better horrible than autistic.

No. Horrible people cause problems. You are what is wrong with America. Not that you would know.

Silly Jesus: lelio: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants

I know (hope) you're being facetious, but this is what libs actually believe.

He'll go out of business shortly because he can't pay his suppliers, or his rent, or his utilities, or his taxes because he's charging too little for his product. The UPMC or Walmart, and papa john's have done a pretty brilliant job dumping their healthcare costs, food costs, housing costs of their employees on the taxpayers I think they'll figure out a way to stay profitable if they paid their employees enough to live.

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

HAHA! I used an idiotic example to explain a complex problem! And when you claim it makes no sense, I'll just say that you don't get it! HAHA!

Forest for the trees....classic backpedal of a dumbass argument.

In summary, Silly Jesus, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

An investigation by the IRS and the FBI, because any business with that kind of COGS ratio in gross margins is clearly a money laundering operation and Bob is muling the dough out of the country up his ass or baked into the widgets.

It's a good thing we have so many Republican governors and state houses focused on killing unions.

Clearly, they're no longer needed.

this, folks, is why the Asinine Tag was invented

WTF is UPMC? I didn't see it spelled out once in the article. Same for SEIU.

Grown-up journalists write out acronyms at the top of an article so people know what the fark is going on.

/sloppy local papers
//Pet Peeve

SithLord: Fart_Machine: SithLord: Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.

LOLWUT?

The future of America. And Pittsburgh voted for the One bringing it all to us. Again, Fark 'em.

I had no idea Obama set the wages for UPMC. Oh wait, you're trolling. Sorry.

This isn't satire?

Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

/I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points

It's legal so long as it is optional, in trade for money. So a company can say "You can pay directly for your paycheck for food/parking/whatever, or you can pay us in cash/CC." It is just a convenience for you, they aren't taking away money, you still get paid if you opt not to do that.

What they can't do is pay you in their own currency, that you can spend only on their services.

The withholding thing is pretty common. I work at a university and we can pay for parking that way if we like (I bike instead because I'm cheap). Likewise students can charge certain things like parking and meal plans to their bursar's account, and pay it all at once.

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You suck at this.

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You're truly insatiable!

Holocaust Agnostic: theres are the kind of people democrats legally mandated that you put in charge of your healthcare.

I know. I was so much better off when I didn't have any healthcare at all.

Mentat: It's the thought that counts.

"We think you should all eat well and live in nice houses and have cars that run good and look pretty and here's a free can of peas." Like that?

Also, for this idea that companies have to outsource to China or India to be efficient.

Bull.

Keen Footwear bringing production back to the US

Master Lock bringing production to Milwaukee from China

Apple and General Electric returning production lines to the USA

A growing trend in business has been "in-sourcing", taking production back from China to the US to bring manufacturing jobs to America.

The companies interviewed stated several reasons why this is an actual good business move. You see, the lower costs of producing overseas are deceptive, there are all kinds of hidden costs and drawbacks that you don't get with American production lines. Companies saw the lower wages and low/no tariffs and thought it would be a no brainer to build in China, but a decade or more down the line they are seeing why that might not be as much of a universal solution as thought

1. Shipping time and lead time. It takes around 6 weeks for a slow boat from China to bring crap to the Port of Los Angeles. If you need to ramp up production or quickly change a design and get the changes into the marketplace, that's a 6 week (at least) delay, that if your factory is stateside, you don't have. If you have an American factory, you can put things on trucks and have them rolling for stores the moment they are off the lines, without delays on a ship and at port.

2. Quality. Chinese products are known for being, well, total crap. Consumers see "made in China" and their expectations drop like a rock. "Made in the USA" still has market value. It still makes consumers think of quality, and from a marketing standpoint it lets them advertise that they are providing American jobs. In terms of actual quality, that is debateable, but when is the last time you heard about melamine or excessive lead from something built in America?

3. Efficiency. General Electric has found that by putting the design engineers, managers, marketing, and production all under one roof they can make the whole company more efficient. Engineers can visit the assembly line by walking down the hall (not by having to fly across the world). There is zero language or cultural barrier between workers and design and management. If they want to make a tiny change to design or the assembly process to make things more efficient, it can be quickly implemented.

4. IP protection. China is famous for making knock-offs of American designs, they have very little respect for IP. Companies that don't want their products copied illegally are finding that its worth it to be Made in America.

BHShaman: I bet most of those folks have a smartphone and data plan. Priorities, how do they work?

Smartphones are cheap, in many cases cheaper than landlines. My nephew got his latest android free with a contract, and it only costs him $35 a month for talk, text and limited data. That's cheaper than my base AT+T landline. The days of mobile phone being strictly a luxury item have been over for a long time.

2012, how does it work?

Giblet: No one has mentioned that, thanks to Bush and Obama economic decisions, these worker's pay isn't worth much, and that is the real problem.

Your company chits, despite the classy forefather pics, aren't worth the rag paper they're printed on.

But yeah, go blame the employer. Unionize. Strike. Who knows? Maybe that company won't relocate and leave 20,000 people fighting for 4 MacDonald's jobs.

If they relocate who is going to buy all the products they are making? American citizens continue to represent the largest purchasers of consumer goods on the planet. In any case you can only exploit less developed nations for so long, until you develop their economies to the point where you are right back to the same labor and regulatory costs you face in a developed nation like the US.

In the long run we are going to have to figure out how to more tightly manage our economy. There are a lot of distruptive technologies on the horizon and robots don't buy cars or clothes, there will be the effects of global warming on food production, and of course are ever expanding population. There are major societal changes on the horizon, both at home and abroad. The world is going to be a very different place in 50 years time.

This will end well...

LOL!

This is like starting a food bank inside of Africa and asking the malnourished people to donate to it :D

Industry. - The business of making things and selling them.

Capitalism. - The practice of moving liquid capital into services and industries and financing their growth for a profitable return.

Corporatism. - The practice of gutting businesses with gymnastic financial constructs, pocketing the money and moving on to the next business to wreck.

Governance. - The institution that legislates in favor of whoever manages to grab the most loot.

oi clueless over paid execs trying to find the cheapest way to save face in the media and blowing it completely.

two things need to happen single payer healthcare and a major increase in the minimum wage at least a $5 bump.

Tyranicle: This isn't 2007 anymore. Employers are struggling to meet payroll, food banks are drying up and there are millions of people who don't know where their next meal will come from. 'Charity', as crazy as it sounds, will be the new normal unless our economy is turned around.

Somebody is doing well. 

BarkingUnicorn: Catlike Typist: So, if I'm reading this thread correctly, Henry Ford was a raging fool. ...Alrighty then.

Henry could pretty much pay whatever he wanted because he had a large productivity advantage over competitors. For a while. That time is past.



------------------

Yeah, thanks to you and yours deciding that the Communist Chinese should be allowed to compete with the USA using an unpegged currency and govt subsidy of export product.

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Stop being a sociopathic farktard

Pay Bob a living wage. Raise the cost of widgets to reflect the increased labor costs.

thenino85: Pittsburgh Farker here.

UPMC (and yes, that's what it's known as by everyone here, I don't think I've heard "University of Pittsburgh Medical Center" sounded out in years) practically IS Oakland and has a substantial presence in other parts of the city. They've been able to slowly choke out other hospitals by not allowing the UPMC health insurance plan to cover those hospitals that might actually pose a threat. Small practices have also given up trying to work with UPMC and just let themselves be bought out and be done with it. Evil profit-seeking corporation, right? Look at the name! It's a non-profit school-affiliated medical center! This is a Farker's wet dream! This is what you want on a national scale!

Although, I wouldn't trust anything City Paper says. They're your typical hipster/20-something self described radical newpaper that you'll see at any coffee. The kind of paper that every city is by law required to have at least one of. They have local music listings, that's about the only reason I ever read it.

Pitt is not a "state" school, per se, though. It's "state-related", but it's not under state control. UPMC itself has its roots in Presbyterian Hospital, and has never been under true state control.

wholedamnshow: Gordian Cipher: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Hey! Here's another great idea!

/Have the company open a store where employees can buy necessities like food and clothing on credit. Then the payments could just be taken directly out of their paychecks
//what could possibly go wrong?

Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

/I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points

I work at a hospital that does this. I eat two meals a day there since I do not have time in the morning to eat breakfast beforehand and I'm happy to just eat sandwiches in the afternoon. Paying this on a credit card is silly since your credit card accumulates interest and having it withdrawn from your paycheck is the same as cash.

If they're not selling that food at cost, they are flat out stealing from you mang.

Your wages are taxable. Free food is not taxed. Even if you make so little that your household pays no tax, there is still additional payroll tax for any wage increases.

If you make $10/hr and get a raise to $10.25/hr, I'm sure you won't be overjoyed about it, because it's only $10/wk raise. Instead of giving each employee a $.25/hr raise, imagine that we take the $10/wk for every employee and pump it into a food bank. Let's say you have 50,000 employees. $500,000 for your food bank every week, instead of increasing wages by tiny marginal amount that employees will never appreciate. Even more money with government grants, etc. That's quite a lot of food that could be available for a low price. Assuming that administration costs are not exorbitant. Of course they will be, so we know who wins... the administrators. In the end, probably 9/10 of funds go toward administrative costs.

/not necessarily in favor of the food bank
//doesn't get paid enough money. Can I please have some more?

Pittsburgh Farker here.

UPMC (and yes, that's what it's known as by everyone here, I don't think I've heard "University of Pittsburgh Medical Center" sounded out in years) practically IS Oakland and has a substantial presence in other parts of the city. They've been able to slowly choke out other hospitals by not allowing the UPMC health insurance plan to cover those hospitals that might actually pose a threat. Small practices have also given up trying to work with UPMC and just let themselves be bought out and be done with it. Evil profit-seeking corporation, right? Look at the name! It's a non-profit school-affiliated medical center! This is a Farker's wet dream! This is what you want on a national scale!

Although, I wouldn't trust anything City Paper says. They're your typical hipster/20-something self described radical newpaper that you'll see at any coffee. The kind of paper that every city is by law required to have at least one of. They have local music listings, that's about the only reason I ever read it.

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?

Except instead of Nurse Jane we're talking about Cafeteria Lady Mary and Janitor Bob.

TFA is specifically complaining about unskilled non medical wages. I would like my hospital janitor to be motivated to clean my OR well, but having been to Pittsburgh, I imagine there's a huge amount of competition for unskilled jobs.

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?

demaL-demaL-yeH: Don't forget the millions of good-paying jobs exported to Communist China - directly facilitated by Wal*Mart.



-----------------

And how Wal-Mart, at a time of record profits, had the taxpayer build them an airport.

If there is any justice in this world, after the violence subsides and the Hamptons stop burning, every member of the Walton family will be hunted across the globe a la post war Nazis.

demaL-demaL-yeH: udhq: Charity is the opposite of justice.

The Hebrew word for charity is both justice and righteousness.

/And you are a very, very horrible person.

The poor should not be forced to survive merely at the pleasure of the wealthy. And if you honestly think that belief makes one a horrible person, then there's a phrase that describes exactly what you are:

That phrase is "social Darwinist."

/I would have also excepted "plutocratic coont"

Hrist: orclover: Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.

I think some Walmarts did this and got biatched at for it. The idea was that rather than helping people know where the safety nets are and how to make sure they're in them, they should have been paying real actual livable wages. If you're working full time and need help to survive, even with minimum wage, it means the economy is farked up, or you've farked up real bad somewhere and need to reevaluate your life.

Was worse a while back when both my wife were getting 10 hours of over time each week, and still needed food stamps.

goatleggedfellow: WTF is UPMC? I didn't see it spelled out once in the article. Same for SEIU.

Grown-up journalists write out acronyms at the top of an article so people know what the fark is going on.

/sloppy local papers
//Pet Peeve

University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Basically every hospital in the city and then some is part of UPMC.

Silly Jesus: joonyer: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

It's the fact that everyone was concentrating on a mis-statement and ignoring the larger argument. I really does seem autistic. Aspergers maybe?

It may look autistic from your perspective because you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, so you don't understand why people are laughing at you.

here's a hint: BUSINESSES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY morbo.jpg

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: "I turned my head and started to cry because I was so angry, although she thought I was crying because of the gesture. They just don't get that I'd rather they pay me a better wage so I wouldn't have to go to a food bank."

Damn, just... damn.

I think it's time for mass exodus.

I mean, I know the workers gotta make ends meet, but they have to realize that if their wages can't keep them off of food stamps and out of soup kitchens, then their job is not helping them make ends meet.

Meanwhile, if I ever have to go to a hospital in Pittsburgh, it won't be at UPMC.

Company reduces the pay of employees.
Company creates a charity that provides essentials for employees.
Company gets tax deductions; employees stay at "same" pay?

Silly Jesus: joonyer: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

HAHA! I used an idiotic example to explain a complex problem! And when you claim it makes no sense, I'll just say that you don't get it! HAHA!

Forest for the trees....classic backpedal of a dumbass argument.

In summary, Silly Jesus, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.

It's the fact that everyone was concentrating on a mis-statement and ignoring the larger argument. I really does seem autistic. Aspergers maybe?

"Mis-statements" are a core aspect of your postings here. Nothing new.

Also, W, it's just "misstatement", no hyphen required. But feel free to make up your own words as needed. We won't laugh. Much.

gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?

Apparently it wasn't started by the hospital, but by a group of employees. Still, the sensible thing to do would be contributing to/volunteering at a well-run existing food bank, rather than setting up a private system just for their coworkers.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much she is getting paid per hour and what work she is doing. Also what is her situation.

- Does she have like 10 kids?
- Are the 10 kids from 8 dads who pay no support?
- Did she borrow foolishly in the housing bubble and now owes a huge mortgage she cannot cover?
- New car every 2 years?

Article lacks details to fuel our (possible) indignation

Silly Jesus:
1. My example was purposefully simplistic (and it still confused everyone)...so yeah, I understand profit...anywho...

2. Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."

1. No, no, no... your example was stupid and had fark-all to do with the current discussion, and showed you to be an idiot with regards to what the definition of "profit" is. That's not nit-picking, that's correctly pointing out that you have no idea what you're talking about and that your "example" offers nothing as far as insight into the current situation.

2. I see we've already moved the goalposts. The problem is not "do they have a right to do this"... precisely zero people in this thread have argued that their wages are illegally low. The point is that they shouldn't be doing this, since paying a liveable wage is something that a company should do for its employees. It's not a legal argument, it's an ethical one. To sit and say "well, they don't have to" is to miss the entire point of the argument and the article, just as UPMC did with it's food bank idea.

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.

They have that. It's called working for a living.

demaL-demaL-yeH: joonyer: In summary, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.

That is, by far, the best signature line on Fark.

/Just don't abuse it.

Thank you, but I certainly cannot take credit for it. I try not to abuse it, and only use it on the worst offenders of logic and reason.

Silly Jesus, please stand up and accept your prize. You've earned it.

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Silly Jesus: Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

Does the factory in which you manufacture these widgets use incandescent or fluorescent lighting? Do you sell any of those widgets to South America? Does "Bob" like pie?

So many unknown variables here.

demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?

Name the largest employer in the state, farkwit. Go on - I'll wait.

seems like you already did. This is your argument? She already works for the largest employer in the state - employing some 55,000 people in a state of 12,000,000 people ergo she can't work somewhere else?

You know what the largest employer in New York State is? North Shore-LIJ Health System with 37,000 employees. Guess where no one I know works? There.

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?



Since your reading comprehension sucks as much donkey balls as your logic, I've bolded the key words for you. Do try to keep up.

Silly Jesus: 1. My example was purposefully simplistic (and it still confused everyone)

No. Your example was obtuse and made no sense regarding the current discussion. I hope you keep trying, but damn I hope you get better.

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

Profit is what a company earns after subtracting costs from revenue. Labor is a cost. $10 profit per hour of labor means that the labor was paid for and created $10 extra dollars for the company.

These are basic principles of business. Like, extremely basic.

Silly Jesus: lelio: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants

I know (hope) you're being facetious, but this is what libs actually believe.

Nice try, but if you're paying Bob 90+% of your revenue, you got a shiatty business model. Maybe you should give up the small business idea and apply at the local factory?

You fail at business. Good day, sir.

jehovahs witness protection: Yeah? Well, just try making a seed deposit at the food bank, then come back in a few months expecting to make a withdrawal.

I immediately thought that they'd have food drives at work to get the employees to stock the food bank. It would be strictly voluntary, of course.

Scott Adams could make a week-long Dilbert series out of this article.

draa: Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

It's the same way at Wal-Mart. They don't allow you to put it on credit toward your paycheck but their employees buying goods from them is basically the same. If they pay someone $10 an hour but that person buys $200-$300 a month from their company, they are only paying that person about $6 an hour after their purchases. If you figure that most people employed at Wal-Mart have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart(because it's all they can afford and still survive), then Wal-Mart is getting cheap labor because they don't pay shiat for the crap they sell anyway. It's a goddamn shame that people more people don't realize just how bad some companies are farking folks in this country and demand a change. I think we need about 2-3 days of a national strike but most people can't afford to miss that much work.

I don't really see the difference for the employee. So what if they buy stuff where they work? Wherever they buy their stuff that they need to live, they are paying retail markup to someone. Why not pay it to where they work? Or somewhere else? Really, why does it matter? It's not like they force the employees to do it. And this probably happens at most retail stores, not just Wal Mart anyway. I don't see any point to what you're saying here.

skullkrusher: pxlboy: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?

I worked as a temp at Philips fixing O2 concentrators. The work was filthy, the hours long, and the pay was lackluster. I took the job because I needed work, but didn't stop looking. My co-workers were quite surprised that I managed to find something else. After I told my supervisor, she said, "Wow, you didn't get stuck!" -- as though it was an accomplishment to find something better.

To be fair, I have an IT and support background, so it was easier for me to find something else. Some of my co-workers, maybe not so much.

perhaps not but if you're in a job which doesn't pay enough to feed yourself and you're still in the same job 9 years later, there's something wrong. That's an awful long time to not find something better.

BOOTSTRAPS!! why the fark arent all you farking libs pulling yerselves up by yer bootstraps!!!

right right?

/this planet needs a mercy killing.

Jesus, when do we start hunting these greedy pukes on their golf courses?

Charity is the opposite of justice.

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants

"I don't need them to pick out my food for me; I need them to pay me better wage so I can pick out my own food," says Poston

That's fair. And if they dont pay you more, go work somewhere that will.

Clearly you're not bieng paid in accordance with your value and it will be your current employers loss when you leave.

/the food bank was a stupid move

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

That gives a new meaning to the expression "Christmas boner."

sno man: skullkrusher: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You're truly insatiable!

I would have gone with "Jesus you're Silly", mostly to avoid the second "that's what she said" in the last 2 hours...

I just like referencing his equally annoying alt at all times

Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.

iheartscotch: This is what is going to happen to companies forced to provide health care for those who work over 30 hours; no one is going to work over 30 hours and they are going to have to provide their own insurance or they will be penalized.

/ and I thought I was evil

Fewer hours from each employee, more sick employees, means we need more employees.

So it was jobs bill.

sno man: That was the quote I was going to post and what you said was close enough to my FFS that I have to give you props for getting here first...

It's just... gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Words fail here.

...and Merry Christmas!!!

This is what is going to happen to companies forced to provide health care for those who work over 30 hours; no one is going to work over 30 hours and they are going to have to provide their own insurance or they will be penalized.

/ and I thought I was evil

cameroncrazy1984: These are the people you conservatives really want to run our healthcare sys...oh wait, they sound exactly like the kind of people Republicans love.

theres are the kind of people democrats legally mandated that you put in charge of your healthcare.

Omfg.