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(Pittsburgh City Paper)   Gentlemen, the situation is dire: our employees are forced to go to food banks to make ends meet. Therefore, I propose, we open our own food bank   (pghcitypaper.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, food banks, 'Tis the Season, Allegheny County, pantry  
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16195 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 9:15 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



381 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-12-11 05:14:00 PM  
That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?
 
2012-12-11 05:23:17 PM  
16 tons and what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint peter don't ou call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store.
 
2012-12-11 05:24:11 PM  
Hey! Here's another great idea!

/Have the company open a store where employees can buy necessities like food and clothing on credit. Then the payments could just be taken directly out of their paychecks
//what could possibly go wrong?
 
2012-12-11 05:24:20 PM  
"I turned my head and started to cry because I was so angry, although she thought I was crying because of the gesture. They just don't get that I'd rather they pay me a better wage so I wouldn't have to go to a food bank."

Damn, just... damn.
 
2012-12-11 05:24:46 PM  

Ambivalence: 16 tons and what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint peter don't ou call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store.


Damn my slow fingers
 
2012-12-11 05:25:00 PM  
These are the people you conservatives really want to run our healthcare sys...oh wait, they sound exactly like the kind of people Republicans love.
 
2012-12-11 05:27:06 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Hey! Here's another great idea!

/Have the company open a store where employees can buy necessities like food and clothing on credit. Then the payments could just be taken directly out of their paychecks
//what could possibly go wrong?


Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

/I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points
 
2012-12-11 05:53:42 PM  
Yeah? Well, just try making a seed deposit at the food bank, then come back in a few months expecting to make a withdrawal.
 
2012-12-11 05:55:30 PM  
Omfg.
 
2012-12-11 05:57:25 PM  
Are there no prisons? What of the work camps?
 
2012-12-11 06:01:52 PM  
I don't understand why employees shouldn't just be forced to live and work at the job. A little room with a hotplate, if you will. Share a shiater down the hall.
 
2012-12-11 06:05:13 PM  
Next step, female employees will become street walkers. Male employees will be coke mules. Children of employees will be chimney sweeps.
 
2012-12-11 06:07:53 PM  
i1.kym-cdn.com

/what the fark is wrong with this company?
 
2012-12-11 06:14:41 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Yeah? Well, just try making a seed deposit at the food bank, then come back in a few months expecting to make a withdrawal.


I tried that, but at a sperm bank. They kicked me out and told me to never come again.
 
2012-12-11 06:17:14 PM  

SarahDiddle: [i1.kym-cdn.com image 500x282]

/what the fark is wrong with this company?


Its not a company

It is a non-profit university
 
2012-12-11 06:18:00 PM  

cman: SarahDiddle: [i1.kym-cdn.com image 500x282]

/what the fark is wrong with this company?

Its not a company

It is a non-profit university medical center


Whoops, my bad. Fixt
 
2012-12-11 06:18:44 PM  
That sounds about right. Don't pay your workers enough? Why not open a food bank so other people can buy them food that you won't pay them enough for.

This is exactly what you get with capitalism.
 
2012-12-11 06:18:55 PM  
Oh good! Now your colleagues can actually see you hit up the food bank at work. How dignifying.
 
2012-12-11 06:19:40 PM  

Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.


Well, so long as the prices for the food aren't wildly out of line with the market price on the high side, whatever.

Gordian Cipher: /I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points


Well, yeah.
 
2012-12-11 06:20:24 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Here. Now stop complaining and go trade your pay for ramen, soap and tampons.
 
2012-12-11 06:23:31 PM  
I keep depositing all sorts of delicious food at the local food bank, but when I want to make a withdrawal for a surprise dinner party, suddenly I'm the bad guy.
 
2012-12-11 06:41:09 PM  

SarahDiddle: [i1.kym-cdn.com image 500x282]

/what the fark is wrong with this company?


You've got poor and middle class people supporting these things because they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
 
2012-12-11 06:45:28 PM  
For example, it's unclear if UPMC is directly contributing to the food bank - but they are certainly asking other employees to donate

Just .. wow.
 
2012-12-11 06:51:55 PM  

Nadie_AZ: SarahDiddle: [i1.kym-cdn.com image 500x282]

/what the fark is wrong with this company?

You've got poor and middle class people supporting these things because they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

 

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-11 06:53:26 PM  
It's like the old days, right? When a corporation opened a "town" and provided its employees with vouchers to buy food from the company grocery store, right?
 
2012-12-11 06:59:27 PM  
i44.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-11 07:08:06 PM  
"We're a non-profit and we're poor. This cheap and demeaning gesture is all we could do."

"What about that fat f*ck in the Rolls that runs the place, how does he get paid?"

"Oh, well, you see, the structure for management c..."

"No, what about that fat f*ck in the Rolls Royce who runs the place, how does he get paid?"

"Those who direct the managerial ..."

"NO! WHAT ABOUT THAT FAT F*CK IN THE ROLLS ROYCE WHO RUNS THE PLACE? HOW DOES HE GET PAID?"

"SECURITY! TERRORIST ALERT!"
 
2012-12-11 07:10:47 PM  
It's the thought that counts.
 
2012-12-11 07:13:03 PM  

Mentat: It's the thought that counts.


"We think you should all eat well and live in nice houses and have cars that run good and look pretty and here's a free can of peas." Like that?
 
2012-12-11 07:16:44 PM  

Mentat: It's the thought that counts.


If only you could eat thoughts.
 
2012-12-11 07:29:32 PM  
This reminds me of a complaint one of my coworkers had this year: someone on a conference call spent an hour making fun of everyone else on the call because he thought he had muted his phone. Even worse, since he had the volume for the call turned down, every time they stopped the meeting to ask him to stop being an ass he didn't realize they were talking to him.

Many complaints were sent up the chain and his boss sent out a very apologetic email promising that next time he would make sure he was actually on mute.
 
2012-12-11 07:31:20 PM  
UPMC is the biggest employer in the region, is one of the largest landowners, and is largely tax exempt. They threatened to cut off service to all Blue Cross customers if BC/BS bought one of the local smaller hospital systems.

They're kinda dicks.
 
2012-12-11 07:31:34 PM  

bunner: Mentat: It's the thought that counts.

"We think you should all eat well and live in nice houses and have cars that run good and look pretty and here's a free can of peas." Like that?


God bless America.
 
2012-12-11 08:20:48 PM  
Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.
 
2012-12-11 08:36:21 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: "I turned my head and started to cry because I was so angry, although she thought I was crying because of the gesture. They just don't get that I'd rather they pay me a better wage so I wouldn't have to go to a food bank."

Damn, just... damn.


That was the quote I was going to post and what you said was close enough to my FFS that I have to give you props for getting here first...
 
2012-12-11 09:17:11 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: These are the people you conservatives really want to run our healthcare sys...oh wait, they sound exactly like the kind of people Republicans love.


theres are the kind of people democrats legally mandated that you put in charge of your healthcare.
 
2012-12-11 09:19:48 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: These are the people you conservatives really want to run our healthcare sys...oh wait, they sound exactly like the kind of people Republicans love.


nonprofits?
 
2012-12-11 09:22:09 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: theres are the kind of people democrats legally mandated that you put in charge of your healthcare.


I know. I was so much better off when I didn't have any healthcare at all.
 
2012-12-11 09:25:29 PM  
This is what is going to happen to companies forced to provide health care for those who work over 30 hours; no one is going to work over 30 hours and they are going to have to provide their own insurance or they will be penalized.

/ and I thought I was evil
 
2012-12-11 09:25:46 PM  
Bosses love to see their employees struggling and groveling.
 
2012-12-11 09:27:05 PM  
...and Merry Christmas!!!

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-12-11 09:27:39 PM  
You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.
 
2012-12-11 09:29:05 PM  

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.


You're truly insatiable!
 
2012-12-11 09:29:51 PM  
content8.flixster.com

Hey! If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Frank Shirley, my boss, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here, with a big ribbon on his head, and I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shait he is!
 
2012-12-11 09:30:07 PM  

skullkrusher: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You're truly insatiable!


That's what she said.
 
2012-12-11 09:32:26 PM  
Socialize the costs, privatize the profits. That's the American way.
 
2012-12-11 09:32:53 PM  
This is the reason unions form, because the management are douche canoes. Looking at the link to the union gripes they mention that UPMC put up a site with the awesome spelling www.upmccares.com. Alas that website says "The page you are attempting to reach is not available outside the UPMC network."

Here's where the person in the above story complains about UPMC tax exempt status and there's this juicy bit in there:

"The controller's report found that the current total value of all tax-exempt property in the county was $17 billion"


WTF how you get $17B in property in one county?

When was the last time UPMC was audited? They say that they are giving away a lot of free health care, but who knows.

Labor's one of (if not the) biggest cost in healthcare. There's no magic fairy dust that's somehow going to sprinkle more money down for the workers without raising the hospital's costs somehow. And no amount of government intervention is going to change that.
 
2012-12-11 09:32:58 PM  

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.


You suck at this.
 
2012-12-11 09:33:43 PM  
a small raise and a bulk food purchasing co'op for the employees would've met both goals.
 
2012-12-11 09:33:44 PM  

Goetz: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You suck at this.


He's 12 and on drugs. It's a shame, really.
 
2012-12-11 09:33:58 PM  
just wow...

I think madam Guillotine needs to show up at the next boardroom meeting.Ya think a boardroom filled with headless corpses of ex-execs might... just might.. be enough to scare wallstreet and its ilk that maybe they need to stop being dicks to the rest of the population?

It'd be interesting to see what the effect would be if it happened. I imagine we'd see the executives fleeing for armed and defended compounds and the people on Fox freak out that the peons are rising up...
 
2012-12-11 09:34:35 PM  

Goetz: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You suck at this.


Excellent retort, Edison.
 
2012-12-11 09:34:38 PM  
"Hey, times are tough. What if we opened a food bank?"
"You mean, for the poor?"
"No, for our
employees!"

img803.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-11 09:34:51 PM  

sno man: That was the quote I was going to post and what you said was close enough to my FFS that I have to give you props for getting here first...


It's just... gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Words fail here.
 
2012-12-11 09:34:52 PM  

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!


No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.
 
2012-12-11 09:35:08 PM  

Bell-fan: just wow...

I think madam Guillotine needs to show up at the next boardroom meeting.Ya think a boardroom filled with headless corpses of ex-execs might... just might.. be enough to scare wallstreet and its ilk that maybe they need to stop being dicks to the rest of the population?

It'd be interesting to see what the effect would be if it happened. I imagine we'd see the executives fleeing for armed and defended compounds and the people on Fox freak out that the peons are rising up...


this is a non-profit health insurance company. I don't think Wall St gives a fark.
 
2012-12-11 09:35:26 PM  
I think this has happened before Link
 
2012-12-11 09:35:49 PM  

Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

/I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points


It's legal so long as it is optional, in trade for money. So a company can say "You can pay directly for your paycheck for food/parking/whatever, or you can pay us in cash/CC." It is just a convenience for you, they aren't taking away money, you still get paid if you opt not to do that.

What they can't do is pay you in their own currency, that you can spend only on their services.

The withholding thing is pretty common. I work at a university and we can pay for parking that way if we like (I bike instead because I'm cheap). Likewise students can charge certain things like parking and meal plans to their bursar's account, and pay it all at once.
 
2012-12-11 09:35:51 PM  

iheartscotch: This is what is going to happen to companies forced to provide health care for those who work over 30 hours; no one is going to work over 30 hours and they are going to have to provide their own insurance or they will be penalized.

/ and I thought I was evil


Fewer hours from each employee, more sick employees, means we need more employees.

So it was jobs bill.
 
2012-12-11 09:35:54 PM  
Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.
 
2012-12-11 09:36:10 PM  

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.


Jesus, you're stupid.

/Yes, it's been said before. Bears repeating.
 
2012-12-11 09:36:21 PM  
Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.
 
2012-12-11 09:36:28 PM  

LordOfThePings: iheartscotch: This is what is going to happen to companies forced to provide health care for those who work over 30 hours; no one is going to work over 30 hours and they are going to have to provide their own insurance or they will be penalized.

/ and I thought I was evil

Fewer hours from each employee, more sick employees, means we need more employees.

So it was a jobs bill.


FTFM.
 
2012-12-11 09:37:39 PM  
This company's policy: THROW THE FILTHY PEASANTS A HUNK OF BREAD!
 
2012-12-11 09:37:50 PM  

skullkrusher: I think madam Guillotine needs to show up at the next boardroom meeting.Ya think a boardroom filled with headless corpses of ex-execs might... just might.. be enough to scare wallstreet and its ilk that maybe they need to stop being dicks to the rest of the population?


cdn.newsday.com

He's in.
 
2012-12-11 09:37:58 PM  

orclover: Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.


or people could use the socialist public libraries and look up what programs are available to them.
 
2012-12-11 09:38:40 PM  

SithLord: Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.


LOLWUT?
 
2012-12-11 09:38:55 PM  

skullkrusher: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You're truly insatiable!


I would have gone with "Jesus you're Silly", mostly to avoid the second "that's what she said" in the last 2 hours...
 
2012-12-11 09:39:43 PM  

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.


I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.
 
2012-12-11 09:39:44 PM  
uh... sounds like a lot of people in this thread need to be poor once just to see how it is. what state is this upmc in?
 
2012-12-11 09:40:33 PM  

sno man: skullkrusher: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You're truly insatiable!

I would have gone with "Jesus you're Silly", mostly to avoid the second "that's what she said" in the last 2 hours...


That's what she said.
 
2012-12-11 09:40:47 PM  

utah dude: uh... sounds like a lot of people in this thread need to be poor once just to see how it is. what state is this upmc in?


This.

/implying that becoming poor is always the result of bad choices
 
2012-12-11 09:41:19 PM  

utah dude: uh... sounds like a lot of people in this thread need to be poor once just to see how it is. what state is this upmc in?


I know, right? Because being poor means that someone owes you something!
 
2012-12-11 09:41:28 PM  

sno man: skullkrusher: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.

You're truly insatiable!

I would have gone with "Jesus you're Silly", mostly to avoid the second "that's what she said" in the last 2 hours...


I just like referencing his equally annoying alt at all times
 
2012-12-11 09:42:16 PM  
I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.
 
2012-12-11 09:42:19 PM  

utah dude: what state is this upmc in?


Let's see... Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh... North Dakota.
 
2012-12-11 09:42:19 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.


I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.
 
2012-12-11 09:42:54 PM  

Lsherm: This reminds me of a complaint one of my coworkers had this year: someone on a conference call spent an hour making fun of everyone else on the call because he thought he had muted his phone. Even worse, since he had the volume for the call turned down, every time they stopped the meeting to ask him to stop being an ass he didn't realize they were talking to him.

Many complaints were sent up the chain and his boss sent out a very apologetic email promising that next time he would make sure he was actually on mute.


I'm pretty sure I used to work with that guy too.

/great story
 
2012-12-11 09:43:10 PM  

BKITU: jehovahs witness protection: Yeah? Well, just try making a seed deposit at the food bank, then come back in a few months expecting to make a withdrawal.

I tried that, but at a sperm bank. They kicked me out and told me to never come again.


I lol'ed
 
2012-12-11 09:44:05 PM  
You see corporations do care about their people. When their employees don't make enough, they come with charity. Wal-Mart should open up food banks for their employees too.

We don't need unions, we need charity.
 
2012-12-11 09:44:19 PM  

Fart_Machine: SithLord: Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.

LOLWUT?


The future of America. And Pittsburgh voted for the One bringing it all to us. Again, Fark 'em.
 
2012-12-11 09:44:31 PM  

Funk Brothers: You see corporations do care about their people. When their employees don't make enough, they come with charity. Wal-Mart should open up food banks for their employees too.

We don't need unions, we need charity.


And not livable wages, apparently.
 
2012-12-11 09:44:57 PM  

gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?


Wal-MART pays a company millions of dollars per year to run a call center where social workers direct Wal-MART employees to the nearest charity food bank, help them apply for welfare, food stamps and rent assistance. Every Wal-MART store has a poster in the breakroom with the phone number and they also print up little inserts to put into the envelope with the employee's paycheck. New employee orientation includes a section on calling the "Resources for Living" hotline. All of this is cheaper than just paying the employees a living wage.
 
2012-12-11 09:45:29 PM  
That gives a new meaning to the expression "Christmas boner."
 
2012-12-11 09:45:44 PM  
This isn't satire?
 
2012-12-11 09:46:08 PM  

SithLord: Fart_Machine: SithLord: Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.

LOLWUT?

The future of America. And Pittsburgh voted for the One bringing it all to us. Again, Fark 'em.


I had no idea Obama set the wages for UPMC. Oh wait, you're trolling. Sorry.
 
2012-12-11 09:47:05 PM  

willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.


Good lord, you can make $1-$3m a year salary working at a non-profit!?? My country has gone insane.
 
2012-12-11 09:47:23 PM  
I wasn't aware that neurosurgeons made that much. A half-mil, perhaps, but 1.8m? Wow.
 
2012-12-11 09:47:36 PM  

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.


Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?
 
2012-12-11 09:48:08 PM  
WTF is UPMC? I didn't see it spelled out once in the article. Same for SEIU.

Grown-up journalists write out acronyms at the top of an article so people know what the fark is going on.

/sloppy local papers
//Pet Peeve
 
2012-12-11 09:48:19 PM  
"I don't need them to pick out my food for me; I need them to pay me better wage so I can pick out my own food," says Poston

That's fair. And if they dont pay you more, go work somewhere that will.

Clearly you're not bieng paid in accordance with your value and it will be your current employers loss when you leave.

/the food bank was a stupid move
 
2012-12-11 09:48:34 PM  

willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.


Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.
 
2012-12-11 09:48:44 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: sno man: That was the quote I was going to post and what you said was close enough to my FFS that I have to give you props for getting here first...

It's just... gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Words fail here.


No kidding. I can't imagine how you could get to this being a better, more cost effective solution that just giving these workers a raise...
 
2012-12-11 09:48:50 PM  

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.


Well, when you own a company, feel free to pay your workers $100 per hour.

Of course, if you are the type of person who would actually do that, the chance of you owning a company is zero, so....
 
2012-12-11 09:49:03 PM  

Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.


It's the same way at Wal-Mart. They don't allow you to put it on credit toward your paycheck but their employees buying goods from them is basically the same. If they pay someone $10 an hour but that person buys $200-$300 a month from their company, they are only paying that person about $6 an hour after their purchases. If you figure that most people employed at Wal-Mart have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart(because it's all they can afford and still survive), then Wal-Mart is getting cheap labor because they don't pay shiat for the crap they sell anyway. It's a goddamn shame that people more people don't realize just how bad some companies are farking folks in this country and demand a change. I think we need about 2-3 days of a national strike but most people can't afford to miss that much work.
 
2012-12-11 09:49:34 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.


a different job?
 
2012-12-11 09:50:25 PM  

LordOfThePings: LordOfThePings: iheartscotch: This is what is going to happen to companies forced to provide health care for those who work over 30 hours; no one is going to work over 30 hours and they are going to have to provide their own insurance or they will be penalized.

/ and I thought I was evil

Fewer hours from each employee, more sick employees, means we need more employees.

So it was a jobs bill.

FTFM.


I guess you could look at it like that; I look at it from the perspective that many big corporations will do anything to cut overhead; including screwing over their employees.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of companies go to a salary system as aposed to a hourly system just to get around the health care thing.

/ my grandpa always said, "Boy, don't use a bulldozer when a ball-peen hammer will do." They probably should have incentivized the corperations instead of threatening to fine them
 
2012-12-11 09:50:44 PM  

GAT_00: That sounds about right. Don't pay your workers enough? Why not open a food bank so other people can buy them food that you won't pay them enough for.

This is exactly what you get with capitalism.


B-b-b-but rational self-interest!
 
2012-12-11 09:50:56 PM  

TheWhoppah: gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?

Wal-MART pays a company millions of dollars per year to run a call center where social workers direct Wal-MART employees to the nearest charity food bank, help them apply for welfare, food stamps and rent assistance. Every Wal-MART store has a poster in the breakroom with the phone number and they also print up little inserts to put into the envelope with the employee's paycheck. New employee orientation includes a section on calling the "Resources for Living" hotline. All of this is cheaper than just paying the employees a living wage.


Actually this is a form of Corporate Welfare. Wal*MART would have to pay higher wages to get the kind of stable employess that they want... you know, the kind of person with a home who doesn't have to steal food to get buy. Resources for Living allows Wal*MART to pay wages that would normally only attract teenagers and homeless people but government and charities pick up the cost difference so they get actual human employees instead of thieves, children and meth monkeys.
 
2012-12-11 09:51:03 PM  

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants
 
2012-12-11 09:51:05 PM  

goatleggedfellow: WTF is UPMC? I didn't see it spelled out once in the article. Same for SEIU.


It's a Pittsburgh paper, and everybody in Pittsburgh knows what UPMC is- University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. I will grant that even here the Service Employees International Union might be a bit more obscure.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Have the company open a store where employees can buy necessities like food and clothing on credit. Then the payments could just be taken directly out of their paychecks


Wait, why even use cash? We can pay them in company scrip, good only at the company store. I don't see anything going wrong with that.
 
2012-12-11 09:51:56 PM  

pxlboy: Funk Brothers: You see corporations do care about their people. When their employees don't make enough, they come with charity. Wal-Mart should open up food banks for their employees too.

We don't need unions, we need charity.

And not livable wages, apparently.


We don't need to be paid livable wages anymore in the new economy. We need food, shelter, clothes, and a place to work. That's it. We shouldn't be paid any more than that.
 
2012-12-11 09:52:33 PM  
If they had to hire staff to operate the food bank I will piss myself laughing.
 
2012-12-11 09:52:34 PM  

lelio: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants


I know (hope) you're being facetious, but this is what libs actually believe.
 
2012-12-11 09:54:06 PM  

skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?


I worked as a temp at Philips fixing O2 concentrators. The work was filthy, the hours long, and the pay was lackluster. I took the job because I needed work, but didn't stop looking. My co-workers were quite surprised that I managed to find something else. After I told my supervisor, she said, "Wow, you didn't get stuck!" -- as though it was an accomplishment to find something better.

To be fair, I have an IT and support background, so it was easier for me to find something else. Some of my co-workers, maybe not so much.
 
2012-12-11 09:54:07 PM  
this, folks, is why the Asinine Tag was invented
 
2012-12-11 09:54:22 PM  
Quick add up of salaries over $1 million, divide by number of employees, divide by 52 for weekly comes to. . .
$16/week. Wow, they'd be living large for the short time before they went under due to having no management, neurosurgeons, oncologists, etc.
 
2012-12-11 09:54:48 PM  

TheWhoppah: TheWhoppah: gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?

Wal-MART pays a company millions of dollars per year to run a call center where social workers direct Wal-MART employees to the nearest charity food bank, help them apply for welfare, food stamps and rent assistance. Every Wal-MART store has a poster in the breakroom with the phone number and they also print up little inserts to put into the envelope with the employee's paycheck. New employee orientation includes a section on calling the "Resources for Living" hotline. All of this is cheaper than just paying the employees a living wage.

Actually this is a form of Corporate Welfare. Wal*MART would have to pay higher wages to get the kind of stable employess that they want... you know, the kind of person with a home who doesn't have to steal food to get buy. Resources for Living allows Wal*MART to pay wages that would normally only attract teenagers and homeless people but government and charities pick up the cost difference so they get actual human employees instead of thieves, children and meth monkeys.


WalMart is subsidizing the government. These people can't get any lower than WalMart. The next stop down is 100% mooching off the government teat. WalMart is absorbing some of the cost to keep these gene pool rejects alive...that burden would otherwise fall completely on the shoulders of the tax payers.
 
2012-12-11 09:55:27 PM  

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.


Er, wealth is accumulated profit.
 
2012-12-11 09:55:41 PM  

Funk Brothers: pxlboy: Funk Brothers: You see corporations do care about their people. When their employees don't make enough, they come with charity. Wal-Mart should open up food banks for their employees too.

We don't need unions, we need charity.

And not livable wages, apparently.

We don't need to be paid livable wages anymore in the new economy. We need food, shelter, clothes, and a place to work. That's it. We shouldn't be paid any more than that.


I'm guessing that you earn enough to cover more than your basic needs.
 
2012-12-11 09:55:43 PM  

freewill: skullkrusher: I think madam Guillotine needs to show up at the next boardroom meeting.Ya think a boardroom filled with headless corpses of ex-execs might... just might.. be enough to scare wallstreet and its ilk that maybe they need to stop being dicks to the rest of the population?

[cdn.newsday.com image 600x399]

He's in.


Boardrooms full of executives never get killed off in reality. I dont know why, logically they should be killed off by some disgruntled something or other on a regular basis but it just doesnt happen. It would have to happen alot, i mean AAAALOOOOT to have any affect on the american psyche, so just once or twice wouldnt cut it. But the fact is, executives never get killed by their lesser peons, like farking ever. Its so farking rare that it becomes a national event whenever it happens every other decade.

By all logic and numbers they should be dying in farking droves. Games and fanfare seem to be doing the trick in keeping the peasants in line.
 
2012-12-11 09:55:55 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.
 
2012-12-11 09:56:06 PM  
It's a good thing we have so many Republican governors and state houses focused on killing unions.

Clearly, they're no longer needed.
 
2012-12-11 09:57:44 PM  

ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.


9/10

This should be good
 
2012-12-11 09:57:46 PM  
Charity is the opposite of justice.
 
2012-12-11 09:58:12 PM  

ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.


So doubling the price of everything helps?
 
2012-12-11 09:58:38 PM  

pxlboy: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?

I worked as a temp at Philips fixing O2 concentrators. The work was filthy, the hours long, and the pay was lackluster. I took the job because I needed work, but didn't stop looking. My co-workers were quite surprised that I managed to find something else. After I told my supervisor, she said, "Wow, you didn't get stuck!" -- as though it was an accomplishment to find something better.

To be fair, I have an IT and support background, so it was easier for me to find something else. Some of my co-workers, maybe not so much.


perhaps not but if you're in a job which doesn't pay enough to feed yourself and you're still in the same job 9 years later, there's something wrong. That's an awful long time to not find something better.
 
2012-12-11 09:59:05 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


An investigation by the IRS and the FBI, because any business with that kind of COGS ratio in gross margins is clearly a money laundering operation and Bob is muling the dough out of the country up his ass or baked into the widgets.
 
2012-12-11 09:59:14 PM  

udhq: Charity is the opposite of justice.


hehe
 
2012-12-11 10:00:57 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Bob needs to find a better widget seller that can get more than $11/widget or sell directly...
So I guess the solution is to eliminate the evil business.
 
2012-12-11 10:01:12 PM  

ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.


No. I get handed $11 when I hand over my widget. I pay my worker $10 and keep $1. Just using easy numbers.
 
2012-12-11 10:01:58 PM  
Jesus, when do we start hunting these greedy pukes on their golf courses?
 
2012-12-11 10:01:59 PM  
My somewhat relevant story:

I once worked at an Aramark managed hotel. It was remote, so I lived in Aramark housing and ate an Aramark food plan. Aramark also owned all of the surrounding businesses, the convenience store, other food places, even the local health clinic. One could borrow against their salary for their needs and indeed, every dime they spent without driving for at least 3 hours (most employees didn't have a car) was spent in a company store. It was a remarkable study in how amenable they thought they were being.
 
2012-12-11 10:02:02 PM  

skullkrusher: pxlboy: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?

I worked as a temp at Philips fixing O2 concentrators. The work was filthy, the hours long, and the pay was lackluster. I took the job because I needed work, but didn't stop looking. My co-workers were quite surprised that I managed to find something else. After I told my supervisor, she said, "Wow, you didn't get stuck!" -- as though it was an accomplishment to find something better.

To be fair, I have an IT and support background, so it was easier for me to find something else. Some of my co-workers, maybe not so much.

perhaps not but if you're in a job which doesn't pay enough to feed yourself and you're still in the same job 9 years later, there's something wrong. That's an awful long time to not find something better.


Well, I was only there about a month or so before I found my current post. I was surprised at how long some of the rank-and-file had been there. Also, I had a guy in my group that, while probably one of the sharpest people I've known, stayed there because it was easy and he could coast by. He had plans to go to grad school, I think, but I don't know what he's doing now.
 
2012-12-11 10:02:14 PM  

ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.


What the fark kind of widget is it and how long does it take to make it that Bob gets $10 for each one he makes?
 
2012-12-11 10:02:16 PM  
There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.
 
2012-12-11 10:02:45 PM  
Just raise minimum wage to 20 bucks an hour.
 
2012-12-11 10:03:37 PM  

skullkrusher: pxlboy: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?

I worked as a temp at Philips fixing O2 concentrators. The work was filthy, the hours long, and the pay was lackluster. I took the job because I needed work, but didn't stop looking. My co-workers were quite surprised that I managed to find something else. After I told my supervisor, she said, "Wow, you didn't get stuck!" -- as though it was an accomplishment to find something better.

To be fair, I have an IT and support background, so it was easier for me to find something else. Some of my co-workers, maybe not so much.

perhaps not but if you're in a job which doesn't pay enough to feed yourself and you're still in the same job 9 years later, there's something wrong. That's an awful long time to not find something better.


BOOTSTRAPS!! why the fark arent all you farking libs pulling yerselves up by yer bootstraps!!!

right right?

/this planet needs a mercy killing.
 
2012-12-11 10:04:04 PM  
I'd just like to remind Libtards that authors of the caliber like Charles Dickens wouldn't exist without gross inequalities in unfettered capitalism.
 
2012-12-11 10:04:08 PM  

FunkOut: There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.


JUST LIKE THERE ARE A BUNCH OF LOSERS HIGH OR DRUNK BE AUSE THEY HAVETH NOT A LIFE
 
2012-12-11 10:04:31 PM  

draa: Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

It's the same way at Wal-Mart. They don't allow you to put it on credit toward your paycheck but their employees buying goods from them is basically the same. If they pay someone $10 an hour but that person buys $200-$300 a month from their company, they are only paying that person about $6 an hour after their purchases. If you figure that most people employed at Wal-Mart have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart(because it's all they can afford and still survive), then Wal-Mart is getting cheap labor because they don't pay shiat for the crap they sell anyway. It's a goddamn shame that people more people don't realize just how bad some companies are farking folks in this country and demand a change. I think we need about 2-3 days of a national strike but most people can't afford to miss that much work.


I don't really see the difference for the employee. So what if they buy stuff where they work? Wherever they buy their stuff that they need to live, they are paying retail markup to someone. Why not pay it to where they work? Or somewhere else? Really, why does it matter? It's not like they force the employees to do it. And this probably happens at most retail stores, not just Wal Mart anyway. I don't see any point to what you're saying here.
 
2012-12-11 10:05:02 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.


Bring BACK? What do you think the "American Dream" treadmill is? You are fed your lifetime of debt before you ever become a professional in a trade. Because you never can expect to reasonably pay it off in your lifetime, you wind up taking on more debt, need a car to get to work so you can pay off that debt, and then fark it, might as well take on 30 years of mortgage. You have a tiny tiny degree of latitude regarding what you do to service your lifetime of indenture. You pretend you are middle class, you mow the grass. But it's not "your grass". You pretend you are free, but factually, your time belong to someone else. You might get lucky and live long enough to enjoy chronic illness.

You can thank Reaganomics and the 80s for that cultural shift. They taught America that your wealth and status is only as small as your credit rating. Government went deeply and forever into debt, and taught America to do the same.
 
2012-12-11 10:06:06 PM  
Scott Adams could make a week-long Dilbert series out of this article.
 
2012-12-11 10:06:12 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


$10 profit does not mean $10 revenue when sold. That means it's revenue - cost. To say "you're making your company $10 of profit per hour" would already be assuming you're being paid a certain wage - so there would be room for being paid more.

Your hilarious misunderstanding of what "profit" means aside, let's be real here. We live in a time when corporate profit margins are at all-time highs, with wages stagnating. To contend, with zero supporting evidence other than "they want to pay lower wages", that any company needs to pay low wages because they aren't profitable enough is ludicrous. Your scenario is in no way resembling the reality of this, or any other situation. Show me where UPMC is hurting financially, and perhaps you have a valid argument here.
 
2012-12-11 10:07:21 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Yeah? Well, just try making a seed deposit at the food bank, then come back in a few months expecting to make a withdrawal.


I immediately thought that they'd have food drives at work to get the employees to stock the food bank. It would be strictly voluntary, of course.
 
2012-12-11 10:08:37 PM  

Silly Jesus: ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.

No. I get handed $11 when I hand over my widget. I pay my worker $10 and keep $1. Just using easy numbers.


In fairness, I was pretty sure that is what you meant. But you used the word "profit," not "revenue". I'm pretty sure jaylectricity had profit in mind too.
 
2012-12-11 10:09:25 PM  

lacydog: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

$10 profit does not mean $10 revenue when sold. That means it's revenue - cost. To say "you're making your company $10 of profit per hour" would already be assuming you're being paid a certain wage - so there would be room for being paid more.

Your hilarious misunderstanding of what "profit" means aside, let's be real here. We live in a time when corporate profit margins are at all-time highs, with wages stagnating. To contend, with zero supporting evidence other than "they want to pay lower wages", that any company needs to pay low wages because they aren't profitable enough is ludicrous. Your scenario is in no way resembling the reality of this, or any other situation. Show me where UPMC is hurting financially, and perhaps you have a valid argument here.


1. My example was purposefully simplistic (and it still confused everyone)...so yeah, I understand profit...anywho...

2. Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."
 
2012-12-11 10:09:46 PM  

skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?


Name the largest employer in the state, farkwit. Go on - I'll wait.
 
2012-12-11 10:10:00 PM  

Silly Jesus: lelio: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants

I know (hope) you're being facetious, but this is what libs actually believe.


Nice try, but if you're paying Bob 90+% of your revenue, you got a shiatty business model. Maybe you should give up the small business idea and apply at the local factory?

You fail at business. Good day, sir.
 
2012-12-11 10:10:41 PM  

Silly Jesus: ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.

No. I get handed $11 when I hand over my widget. I pay my worker $10 and keep $1. Just using easy numbers.


Move manufacturing to China and make them for $2 instead.
 
2012-12-11 10:10:46 PM  

draa: Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

It's the same way at Wal-Mart. They don't allow you to put it on credit toward your paycheck but their employees buying goods from them is basically the same. If they pay someone $10 an hour but that person buys $200-$300 a month from their company, they are only paying that person about $6 an hour after their purchases. If you figure that most people employed at Wal-Mart have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart(because it's all they can afford and still survive), then Wal-Mart is getting cheap labor because they don't pay shiat for the crap they sell anyway. It's a goddamn shame that people more people don't realize just how bad some companies are farking folks in this country and demand a change. I think we need about 2-3 days of a national strike but most people can't afford to miss that much work.


I used to work at Walmart, and IIRC, if you had a Walmart credit card you could have the payments automatically deducted from your check.
 
2012-12-11 10:10:49 PM  
The company had to have announced this food bank as a slap in the face of workers demanding higher pay because nobody could possibly be that oblivious to do something like this and think they are helping.
 
2012-12-11 10:11:21 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: Jesus, when do we start hunting these greedy pukes on their golf courses?


Put up or shut up. Not getting up are you? Yea, xbox is calling, i can hear it too so dont feel bad.

We can recognize when something is wrong. We can see the obvious answers. But we simply cant get up to do anything about it. Honestly mass murder is a social service to one faction of society or the other depending on who is hit. Hell right down political lines even, think a single farking republican shed a tear when Kathy Gifford got shot in the head? They threw confetti and high five'd each other.
 
2012-12-11 10:11:23 PM  
jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.


Profit is what a company earns after subtracting costs from revenue. Labor is a cost. $10 profit per hour of labor means that the labor was paid for and created $10 extra dollars for the company.

These are basic principles of business. Like, extremely basic.
 
2012-12-11 10:11:44 PM  

cman: FunkOut: There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.

JUST LIKE THERE ARE A BUNCH OF LOSERS HIGH OR DRUNK BE AUSE THEY HAVETH NOT A LIFE


That's nice dear. I mean, I'm a shut in myself. I just sit here knitting and sipping tea.
 
2012-12-11 10:11:55 PM  

Silly Jesus: 1. My example was purposefully simplistic (and it still confused everyone)


No. Your example was obtuse and made no sense regarding the current discussion. I hope you keep trying, but damn I hope you get better.
 
2012-12-11 10:12:22 PM  

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


So you only get a dollar? And never mind that most of that gets taxed.
 
2012-12-11 10:14:03 PM  
haha I'm an idiot not refreshing the thread
 
2012-12-11 10:14:29 PM  

Silly Jesus: ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.

No. I get handed $11 when I hand over my widget. I pay my worker $10 and keep $1. Just using easy numbers.


This argument is farking stupid because there are millions of jobs that aren't production and profit creating.

I realize that to someone with a GOP mindset values nothing but profit, like a farking ferengi, but seriously.
 
2012-12-11 10:14:41 PM  

FunkOut: cman: FunkOut: There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.

JUST LIKE THERE ARE A BUNCH OF LOSERS HIGH OR DRUNK BE AUSE THEY HAVETH NOT A LIFE

That's nice dear. I mean, I'm a shut in myself. I just sit here knitting and sipping tea.


I was speaking about myself. I apologize that in retrospect, I can see why a normal person would think that I was talking about them. Me being a Moran aside, I ask for your forgiveness
 
2012-12-11 10:14:58 PM  

udhq: Charity is the opposite of justice.


The Hebrew word for charity is both justice and righteousness.

/And you are a very, very horrible person.
 
2012-12-11 10:15:08 PM  
Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.
 
2012-12-11 10:15:10 PM  
Food bank? Wish I could eat it. Right now, I have the worst kind of broken tooth misery. I could be in Rio, Paris or on the Space Station, and all I'd really crave is a dentist's needle. Yep, ths shiat is fo real!
 
2012-12-11 10:15:27 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Since your reading comprehension sucks as much donkey balls as your logic, I've bolded the key words for you. Do try to keep up.
 
2012-12-11 10:15:28 PM  

positive p: Profit is what a company earns after subtracting costs from revenue. Labor is a cost. $10 profit per hour of labor means that the labor was paid for and created $10 extra dollars for the company.

These are basic principles of business. Like, extremely basic.


Exactly. And they're wildly different from basic principles of society.
 
2012-12-11 10:15:34 PM  
How dare they start a charity to help people. The nerve.
 
2012-12-11 10:15:40 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.


Sounds sweet. Took me 13 years...
 
2012-12-11 10:16:58 PM  

cman: FunkOut: cman: FunkOut: There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.

JUST LIKE THERE ARE A BUNCH OF LOSERS HIGH OR DRUNK BE AUSE THEY HAVETH NOT A LIFE

That's nice dear. I mean, I'm a shut in myself. I just sit here knitting and sipping tea.

I was speaking about myself. I apologize that in retrospect, I can see why a normal person would think that I was talking about them. Me being a Moran aside, I ask for your forgiveness


No bother. You know, with the all caps and the "haveth not" at the end, I thought you might be Kenneth Branagh for a moment.
 
2012-12-11 10:16:59 PM  

pxlboy: utah dude: uh... sounds like a lot of people in this thread need to be poor once just to see how it is. what state is this upmc in?

This.

/implying that becoming poor is always the result of bad choices


when i was poorer than now a free can of soup was a blessing i was thankful for.
 
2012-12-11 10:18:43 PM  

suziequzie: L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.

Sounds sweet. Took me 13 years...


You could have done it in six in the military.

/The downside is the higher risk of being shot.
//Oh, and owing taxes on the 15% "forgiven" each year.
 
2012-12-11 10:19:57 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: "I turned my head and started to cry because I was so angry, although she thought I was crying because of the gesture. They just don't get that I'd rather they pay me a better wage so I wouldn't have to go to a food bank."

Damn, just... damn.


DNRTFA and thanks for the heads up.

/I donate to the food bank and Planned Parenthood.
 
2012-12-11 10:20:40 PM  

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


HAHA! I used an idiotic example to explain a complex problem! And when you claim it makes no sense, I'll just say that you don't get it! HAHA!

Forest for the trees....classic backpedal of a dumbass argument.

In summary, Silly Jesus, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.
 
2012-12-11 10:21:13 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: willfullyobscure: I wonder what the C-level salaries are for this non-profit?Niiice.

Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?

Name the largest employer in the state, farkwit. Go on - I'll wait.


seems like you already did. This is your argument? She already works for the largest employer in the state - employing some 55,000 people in a state of 12,000,000 people ergo she can't work somewhere else?

You know what the largest employer in New York State is? North Shore-LIJ Health System with 37,000 employees. Guess where no one I know works? There.
 
2012-12-11 10:21:13 PM  

Silly Jesus: Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


Does the factory in which you manufacture these widgets use incandescent or fluorescent lighting? Do you sell any of those widgets to South America? Does "Bob" like pie?

So many unknown variables here.
 
2012-12-11 10:21:16 PM  

the_chief: How dare they start a charity to help people. The nerve.


Well, zeroing out the top level pay wouldn't solve the issue, so maybe if they fire half their employees, and double the pay and workload of those remaining. . .
Problem solved!
 
2012-12-11 10:22:23 PM  

joonyer: In summary, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.


That is, by far, the best signature line on Fark.

/Just don't abuse it.
 
2012-12-11 10:22:25 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: Jesus, when do we start hunting these greedy pukes on their golf courses?


I like Insatiable Jesus way more than Silly Jesus.
 
2012-12-11 10:22:25 PM  

orclover: BOOTSTRAPS!! why the fark arent all you farking libs pulling yerselves up by yer bootstraps!!!


who said anything about libs? You should get that persecution complex checked out.
 
2012-12-11 10:22:27 PM  

the_chief: How dare they start a charity to help people. The nerve.


A charity to help their employees (take a minute to think about that)
The nerve indeed.
 
2012-12-11 10:22:34 PM  

joonyer: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

HAHA! I used an idiotic example to explain a complex problem! And when you claim it makes no sense, I'll just say that you don't get it! HAHA!

Forest for the trees....classic backpedal of a dumbass argument.

In summary, Silly Jesus, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.


It's the fact that everyone was concentrating on a mis-statement and ignoring the larger argument. I really does seem autistic. Aspergers maybe?
 
2012-12-11 10:23:23 PM  

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


No. You are just a horrible person.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:11 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: joonyer: In summary, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.

That is, by far, the best signature line on Fark.

/Just don't abuse it.


Thank you, but I certainly cannot take credit for it. I try not to abuse it, and only use it on the worst offenders of logic and reason.

Silly Jesus, please stand up and accept your prize. You've earned it.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:15 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.


They have that. It's called working for a living.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:16 PM  

Silly Jesus: Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."


Uh... Minimum wage laws?

That's the whole point of minimum wage laws, to keep companies from paying what they could get away with to people desperate enough to take it. Unfortunately, adjusted for everything, minimum wage is almost at an all time low right now.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:35 PM  

Silly Jesus: lelio: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Obviously to stop paying yourself a salary, Mr. McGreedyPants

I know (hope) you're being facetious, but this is what libs actually believe.


He'll go out of business shortly because he can't pay his suppliers, or his rent, or his utilities, or his taxes because he's charging too little for his product. The UPMC or Walmart, and papa john's have done a pretty brilliant job dumping their healthcare costs, food costs, housing costs of their employees on the taxpayers I think they'll figure out a way to stay profitable if they paid their employees enough to live.
 
2012-12-11 10:24:42 PM  

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Silly Jesus:

2. Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."


Ah I think we're finally making progress. Here you've clearly equivocated. You think that not being hungry is a 'comfort' instead of a basic function of human dignity in a society that can easily afford to eradicate this problem as if it were polio.

This is the lack of moral leadership people keep complaining about.

 
2012-12-11 10:25:31 PM  

FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.


Better horrible than autistic.
 
2012-12-11 10:26:16 PM  

Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Better horrible than autistic.


..... wow.
 
2012-12-11 10:26:17 PM  

skullkrusher: This is your argument? She already works for the largest employer in the state


The point is they don't pay a living wage. To employees of nine years. Do you believe, for even an instant, that smaller employers don't follow their example?

/Never mind. Your core value and most salient characteristic is blatant dishonesty.
//Carry on.
 
2012-12-11 10:26:28 PM  
I've heard a line that a Republican is a Democrat who got mugged.

Add to that, a Democrat is a Republican who went broke.
 
2012-12-11 10:26:29 PM  
Well, this isn't mentioned in a real newspaper. Guessing it's some disconnected facts twisted to fit the paper's world-view.
 
2012-12-11 10:27:02 PM  
Obviously UPMC was worried that if they gave a pay raise the money still would not be used for groceries, and the employees would still go to the food bank. So this way they know they are providing food directly.

/ bet they'd complain if they were hung with a new rope too.
 
2012-12-11 10:27:11 PM  

positive p: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Silly Jesus:

2. Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."


Ah I think we're finally making progress. Here you've clearly equivocated. You think that not being hungry is a 'comfort' instead of a basic function of human dignity in a society that can easily afford to eradicate this problem as if it were polio.

This is the lack of moral leadership people keep complaining about.


Businesses are not charities.
 
2012-12-11 10:28:18 PM  

Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Better horrible than autistic.


No. Horrible people cause problems. You are what is wrong with America. Not that you would know.
 
2012-12-11 10:28:21 PM  

orclover: Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.


I think some Walmarts did this and got biatched at for it. The idea was that rather than helping people know where the safety nets are and how to make sure they're in them, they should have been paying real actual livable wages. If you're working full time and need help to survive, even with minimum wage, it means the economy is farked up, or you've farked up real bad somewhere and need to reevaluate your life.
 
2012-12-11 10:28:23 PM  

skullkrusher: orclover: BOOTSTRAPS!! why the fark arent all you farking libs pulling yerselves up by yer bootstraps!!!

who said anything about libs? You should get that persecution complex checked out.


Its funny because, you know you used to...remember when you....never mind. You know I have you favorited for a reason right?
 
2012-12-11 10:28:28 PM  

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


In trying to come up with a "broad and cobbled together" example you created a scenario where--as is usually the case--the conundrum is the fault of incompetent ownership instead of greed by labor.

...maybe you're better at this than we give you credit for.
 
2012-12-11 10:29:03 PM  

Silly Jesus:
1. My example was purposefully simplistic (and it still confused everyone)...so yeah, I understand profit...anywho...

2. Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."


1. No, no, no... your example was stupid and had fark-all to do with the current discussion, and showed you to be an idiot with regards to what the definition of "profit" is. That's not nit-picking, that's correctly pointing out that you have no idea what you're talking about and that your "example" offers nothing as far as insight into the current situation.

2. I see we've already moved the goalposts. The problem is not "do they have a right to do this"... precisely zero people in this thread have argued that their wages are illegally low. The point is that they shouldn't be doing this, since paying a liveable wage is something that a company should do for its employees. It's not a legal argument, it's an ethical one. To sit and say "well, they don't have to" is to miss the entire point of the argument and the article, just as UPMC did with it's food bank idea.
 
2012-12-11 10:29:38 PM  
Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much she is getting paid per hour and what work she is doing. Also what is her situation.

- Does she have like 10 kids?
- Are the 10 kids from 8 dads who pay no support?
- Did she borrow foolishly in the housing bubble and now owes a huge mortgage she cannot cover?
- New car every 2 years?

Article lacks details to fuel our (possible) indignation
 
2012-12-11 10:29:48 PM  

Boojum2k: the_chief: How dare they start a charity to help people. The nerve.

Well, zeroing out the top level pay wouldn't solve the issue, so maybe if they fire half their employees, and double the pay and workload of those remaining. . .
Problem solved!


I like the way you think.
 
2012-12-11 10:30:15 PM  

gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?


Apparently it wasn't started by the hospital, but by a group of employees. Still, the sensible thing to do would be contributing to/volunteering at a well-run existing food bank, rather than setting up a private system just for their coworkers.
 
2012-12-11 10:31:15 PM  
Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.
 
2012-12-11 10:31:15 PM  

FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Better horrible than autistic.

No. Horrible people cause problems. You are what is wrong with America. Not that you would know.


Your face is what is wrong with America.
 
2012-12-11 10:31:39 PM  

Silly Jesus: joonyer: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

HAHA! I used an idiotic example to explain a complex problem! And when you claim it makes no sense, I'll just say that you don't get it! HAHA!

Forest for the trees....classic backpedal of a dumbass argument.

In summary, Silly Jesus, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.

It's the fact that everyone was concentrating on a mis-statement and ignoring the larger argument. I really does seem autistic. Aspergers maybe?


"Mis-statements" are a core aspect of your postings here. Nothing new.

Also, W, it's just "misstatement", no hyphen required. But feel free to make up your own words as needed. We won't laugh. Much.
 
2012-12-11 10:31:48 PM  
Company reduces the pay of employees.
Company creates a charity that provides essentials for employees.
Company gets tax deductions; employees stay at "same" pay?
 
2012-12-11 10:31:51 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: The point is they don't pay a living wage. To employees of nine years. Do you believe, for even an instant, that smaller employers don't follow their example?


No, I am wholly convinced that every clerical and administrative worker in the state of Pennsylvania must rely on food banks to meet ends meet. Hey, a subset of the employees of the largest employer needs to, it must be true for all employers.

Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the United States. They are notorious for underpaying their workers. How the hell do any of us afford anything - what with all our smaller employers following their lead.
 
2012-12-11 10:31:52 PM  

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: "I turned my head and started to cry because I was so angry, although she thought I was crying because of the gesture. They just don't get that I'd rather they pay me a better wage so I wouldn't have to go to a food bank."

Damn, just... damn.


I think it's time for mass exodus.

I mean, I know the workers gotta make ends meet, but they have to realize that if their wages can't keep them off of food stamps and out of soup kitchens, then their job is not helping them make ends meet.

Meanwhile, if I ever have to go to a hospital in Pittsburgh, it won't be at UPMC.
 
2012-12-11 10:33:00 PM  

orclover: skullkrusher: orclover: BOOTSTRAPS!! why the fark arent all you farking libs pulling yerselves up by yer bootstraps!!!

who said anything about libs? You should get that persecution complex checked out.

Its funny because, you know you used to...remember when you....never mind. You know I have you favorited for a reason right?


umm... I've never been one of the "LIBS!!!!!1!!" types.
No, I had no idea that you had me favorited or the reason
 
2012-12-11 10:33:39 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.


Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.
 
2012-12-11 10:33:48 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Liquidation. You run a lousy company, and you're doing Bob no favors by not being able to pay him a living wage. It'll hurt, but it'll be better in the long run.
 
2012-12-11 10:33:58 PM  

Silly Jesus: joonyer: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

It's the fact that everyone was concentrating on a mis-statement and ignoring the larger argument. I really does seem autistic. Aspergers maybe?


It may look autistic from your perspective because you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, so you don't understand why people are laughing at you.

here's a hint: BUSINESSES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY morbo.jpg
 
2012-12-11 10:34:00 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: udhq: Charity is the opposite of justice.

The Hebrew word for charity is both justice and righteousness.

/And you are a very, very horrible person.


Don't see very many Ultra-Burns, but I think this qualifies as one.
 
2012-12-11 10:34:49 PM  

goatleggedfellow: WTF is UPMC? I didn't see it spelled out once in the article. Same for SEIU.

Grown-up journalists write out acronyms at the top of an article so people know what the fark is going on.

/sloppy local papers
//Pet Peeve


University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Basically every hospital in the city and then some is part of UPMC.
 
2012-12-11 10:35:10 PM  

TomD9938: "I don't need them to pick out my food for me; I need them to pay me better wage so I can pick out my own food," says Poston

That's fair. And if they dont pay you more, go work somewhere that will.

Clearly you're not bieng paid in accordance with your value and it will be your current employers loss when you leave.

/the food bank was a stupid move


Right on... except the part about leaving. I'm too drunk to do this debate, other than to say you really ought to have known that it's no easy task in any economy, much less THIS economy, to simply uproot and move on. Theory and practice work well in the laboratory. Look up for a second and realize you need fresh air. Hit the button to let you out. Take one step. One single step. Bask in awe of nature's glory. Your eyes open in recognition of all you have appreciated and you look around. Suddenly things don't work like you thought they did. Everything's haywire and spinning out of control.

Moral: Things really, really, REALLY don't tend to work like you expect them to outside your bubble.
 
2012-12-11 10:35:25 PM  

Hrist: orclover: Every job that pays less than $15 dollars an hour should come with a list of social programs to help you stay alive and somewhat healthy, or at least not in constant pain. But yea, socialism, cant have that. So everybody enjoy yer toothaches and broken limbs peasants.

I think some Walmarts did this and got biatched at for it. The idea was that rather than helping people know where the safety nets are and how to make sure they're in them, they should have been paying real actual livable wages. If you're working full time and need help to survive, even with minimum wage, it means the economy is farked up, or you've farked up real bad somewhere and need to reevaluate your life.


Was worse a while back when both my wife were getting 10 hours of over time each week, and still needed food stamps.
 
2012-12-11 10:35:43 PM  

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

As apposed to internships?

 
2012-12-11 10:37:56 PM  

the_chief: Boojum2k: the_chief: How dare they start a charity to help people. The nerve.

Well, zeroing out the top level pay wouldn't solve the issue, so maybe if they fire half their employees, and double the pay and workload of those remaining. . .
Problem solved!

I like the way you think.


I personally improved cost control at my employer, such that we have added ten more employees making roughly $20/hour, and still lowered our expenses.
/fun with logistics, like being paid to play Tetris
//want to earn a living wage? Find something you're good at, and get paid for it.
 
2012-12-11 10:39:01 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.

Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.


demaL-demaL-yeH: /And you are a very, very horrible person.

 
2012-12-11 10:39:37 PM  

skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: The point is they don't pay a living wage. To employees of nine years. Do you believe, for even an instant, that smaller employers don't follow their example?

No, I am wholly convinced that every clerical and administrative worker in the state of Pennsylvania must rely on food banks to meet ends meet. Hey, a subset of the employees of the largest employer needs to, it must be true for all employers.

Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the United States. They are notorious for underpaying their workers. How the hell do any of us afford anything - what with all our smaller employers following their lead.


Don't forget the millions of good-paying jobs exported to Communist China - directly facilitated by Wal*Mart. And the mom-and-pop stores killed off by predatory loss-leader practices. And the adamant and pervasive union-busting activities.

/Wait. That would have been an honest and balanced observation.
//From you? Un-farking-possible.
///Carry on.
 
2012-12-11 10:41:13 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: The point is they don't pay a living wage. To employees of nine years. Do you believe, for even an instant, that smaller employers don't follow their example?

No, I am wholly convinced that every clerical and administrative worker in the state of Pennsylvania must rely on food banks to meet ends meet. Hey, a subset of the employees of the largest employer needs to, it must be true for all employers.

Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the United States. They are notorious for underpaying their workers. How the hell do any of us afford anything - what with all our smaller employers following their lead.

Don't forget the millions of good-paying jobs exported to Communist China - directly facilitated by Wal*Mart. And the mom-and-pop stores killed off by predatory loss-leader practices. And the adamant and pervasive union-busting activities.

/Wait. That would have been an honest and balanced observation.
//From you? Un-farking-possible.
///Carry on.


as each of your inane "points" collapses you're just going to flail into the next non sequitor, huh?

/carry on
 
2012-12-11 10:41:49 PM  
I think we can all agree that anything less than a completely lawless, robber baron style capitalism is looked upon as anti business tyranny by right wingers.

I'm so sick of hearing it. To hear most republicans talk, employers should be perfectly within their rights to make health care decisions for their employees, to regulate their employees off hours activities, to decide what brands and products their employees are permitted to use. If you don't like it when your lord claims the right to impregnate your wife you can just leave, right?

Business and trade is important. But it's not the only thing that's important.
 
2012-12-11 10:42:04 PM  

skullkrusher: orclover: skullkrusher: orclover: BOOTSTRAPS!! why the fark arent all you farking libs pulling yerselves up by yer bootstraps!!!

who said anything about libs? You should get that persecution complex checked out.

Its funny because, you know you used to...remember when you....never mind. You know I have you favorited for a reason right?

umm... I've never been one of the "LIBS!!!!!1!!" types.
No, I had no idea that you had me favorited or the reason

 
2012-12-11 10:43:32 PM  
It's interesting looking at UPMC's financial statements. It's especially interesting when you know that companies cook the books prior to making them public.

Link the their 2011 financial statements. (PDF warning)
 
2012-12-11 10:44:09 PM  
nice, sound, republican business decision
 
2012-12-11 10:45:27 PM  

skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.

Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.

demaL-demaL-yeH: /And you are a very, very horrible person.


Heard about the class warfare that's been going on for more than thirty years?
Care to guess how many millions of casualties have been inflicted?
And how corrosive it is to the commonweal to set the poor against the impoverished?
You continue to make excuses for that.
 
2012-12-11 10:46:04 PM  
Wouldn't be that much of a farkin' problem if the cost of living didn't go up every year, unlike employee's salaries.
 
2012-12-11 10:47:25 PM  
Getting a kick outta this. My mom used to work for UPMC Braddock, until they shut its doors.
 
2012-12-11 10:47:39 PM  

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


No. You're either being trolled or you're talking to poetry majors tonight.
 
2012-12-11 10:48:15 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.

Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.

demaL-demaL-yeH: /And you are a very, very horrible person.

Heard about the class warfare that's been going on for more than thirty years?
Care to guess how many millions of casualties have been inflicted?
And how corrosive it is to the commonweal to set the poor against the impoverished?
You continue to make excuses for that.


Just let the record show that you have now doubled down on your suggestion that people be murdered. Yep, you are a very, very horrible person alright.
At least you don't try to hide it, shiatbag.
 
2012-12-11 10:49:08 PM  
Sounds like a whole bunch of that irresponsible 47% that Mitt Romney doesn't care about.
 
2012-12-11 10:49:16 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You're either being trolled or you're talking to poetry majors tonight.


Yeah, he's the one being trolled. Good one.
 
2012-12-11 10:50:31 PM  

ShavedApe: It's interesting looking at UPMC's financial statements. It's especially interesting when you know that companies cook the books prior to making them public.

Link the their 2011 financial statements. (PDF warning)


So, $3.5 billion in unrestricted CASH and another $3.5 billion in the rainy-day-golf-trips-to-Bermuda fund. And they're pulling in $500 million in extra cash year-over-year in spite of an aggressive building program.

Niiiiiiiiice.
 
2012-12-11 10:51:47 PM  

skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.

Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.

demaL-demaL-yeH: /And you are a very, very horrible person.

Heard about the class warfare that's been going on for more than thirty years?
Care to guess how many millions of casualties have been inflicted?
And how corrosive it is to the commonweal to set the poor against the impoverished?
You continue to make excuses for that.

Just let the record show that you have now doubled down on your suggestion that people be murdered. Yep, you are a very, very horrible person alright.
At least you don't try to hide it, shiatbag.


No, I did not suggest that people be murdered. Tar and feathers, though...
 
2012-12-11 10:51:56 PM  
Gentleman you are all wrong. This is a way for this company to determine which employees are having Real™ financial difficulties. Since these fine companies know that employees with Real™ financial difficulties tend to miss more work or have other work issues they can now identify these workers and fire them for stealing or some other thing that will get them denied benefits because you know they would be irresponsible to their shareholders if their unemployment insurance copay went up. This way they can hire more productive workers.
 
2012-12-11 10:54:26 PM  

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


So everyone else is an asshole because you got caught out in a straw man attack?
 
2012-12-11 10:54:54 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.

Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.

demaL-demaL-yeH: /And you are a very, very horrible person.

Heard about the class warfare that's been going on for more than thirty years?
Care to guess how many millions of casualties have been inflicted?
And how corrosive it is to the commonweal to set the poor against the impoverished?
You continue to make excuses for that.

Just let the record show that you have now doubled down on your suggestion that people be murdered. Yep, you are a very, very horrible person alright.
At least you don't try to hide it, shiatbag.

No, I did not suggest that people be murdered. Tar and feathers, though...


demaL-demaL-yeH: Your core value and most salient characteristic is blatant dishonesty.

 
2012-12-11 10:55:41 PM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: FatalDischarge: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

No. You are just a horrible person.

Better horrible than autistic.

No. Horrible people cause problems. You are what is wrong with America. Not that you would know.

Your face is what is wrong with America.


Witty comeback, Oppenheimer. I could sear a steak with that burn.
 
2012-12-11 10:56:16 PM  

gadian: My somewhat relevant story:

I once worked at an Aramark managed hotel. It was remote, so I lived in Aramark housing and ate an Aramark food plan. Aramark also owned all of the surrounding businesses, the convenience store, other food places, even the local health clinic. One could borrow against their salary for their needs and indeed, every dime they spent without driving for at least 3 hours (most employees didn't have a car) was spent in a company store. It was a remarkable study in how amenable they thought they were being.


I know exactly where you are talking about.

/heard many horror stories over the years
 
2012-12-11 10:56:27 PM  
Either decide that you want to live as a serf under some corporate feudal system or if you want to take your country, and your world back.

Make no mistake, the enemy of America are the wealthy and the corporatists. They launched a coup on this country. Remember oil going out of sight for no readily apparent reason? Yeah, that was them sucking all the the money possible out of the bottom of the system. The Wall Street crash? That was money being sucked out of the top of the system. They systematically looted our wealth from bottom to top and blamed it on speculators and black people buying homes, respectively.

Now they sit on their wealth while the nation that played host to so many of them bleeds and suffers. And these insufferable pricks use that misery to hold this nation hostage and demand the dismantling of decades worth of hard fought labor law and lower taxes for themselves.

Power has never simply quit the field. Never in history has power just stepped aside or stopped seeking MORE power. It has to be driven off with blades and bullets. Power only understands power. These people have no intention of stopping until they have as much power and control over our lives as possible. The see this nation as something for them to rightfully plunder, citing the fact that people like themselves built this country and created this economy. Never mind that if any of the wealthy families of today never existed, somebody else would have done those same things. But they believe themselves to be special, above us.

They need to be shown that they are not special. That they bleed and suffer and burn like those that they tread upon so callously.

Musket Balls.

Faces.

It's time to take out the Tories, again.
 
2012-12-11 10:57:07 PM  

gopher321: That's completely pathetic. Who the fark runs that company, Ebenezar Scrooge?


The reason is this: TAX WRITE-OFF.
 
2012-12-11 10:57:28 PM  

Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth! I don't understand economics / capitalism / life! Whargarbll.


Wow... a lot of comments on the original story like this. What eveidence do you have that she isn't worth more? There seems to be a lot of evidence that they aren't paying decent wages to anyone but administration and doctors there. She is free to get another job, but that's also a red herring as that amount of freedom varies from person to person.

Something has got to give. There are many organizations out there doing this. At some point they won't be able to find workers, but until that happens people still have to eat somehow.
 
2012-12-11 10:58:22 PM  

suziequzie: L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.

Sounds sweet. Took me 13 years...


The feds already offer indentured servitude; see "Public Service Loan Forgiveness."
 
2012-12-11 10:58:31 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: Either decide that you want to live as a serf under some corporate feudal system or if you want to take your country, and your world back.

Make no mistake, the enemy of America are the wealthy and the corporatists. They launched a coup on this country. Remember oil going out of sight for no readily apparent reason? Yeah, that was them sucking all the the money possible out of the bottom of the system. The Wall Street crash? That was money being sucked out of the top of the system. They systematically looted our wealth from bottom to top and blamed it on speculators and black people buying homes, respectively.

Now they sit on their wealth while the nation that played host to so many of them bleeds and suffers. And these insufferable pricks use that misery to hold this nation hostage and demand the dismantling of decades worth of hard fought labor law and lower taxes for themselves.

Power has never simply quit the field. Never in history has power just stepped aside or stopped seeking MORE power. It has to be driven off with blades and bullets. Power only understands power. These people have no intention of stopping until they have as much power and control over our lives as possible. The see this nation as something for them to rightfully plunder, citing the fact that people like themselves built this country and created this economy. Never mind that if any of the wealthy families of today never existed, somebody else would have done those same things. But they believe themselves to be special, above us.

They need to be shown that they are not special. That they bleed and suffer and burn like those that they tread upon so callously.

Musket Balls.

Faces.

It's time to take out the Tories, again.


This.
 
2012-12-11 10:59:21 PM  

skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: skullkrusher: demaL-demaL-yeH: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Executives really have to get it through their skull that Americans really don't need much to be fat, complacent and happy.

Hmm. Maybe.
/Brass-jacketed lead might do the trick, too.

demaL-demaL-yeH: /And you are a very, very horrible person.

Heard about the class warfare that's been going on for more than thirty years?
Care to guess how many millions of casualties have been inflicted?
And how corrosive it is to the commonweal to set the poor against the impoverished?
You continue to make excuses for that.

Just let the record show that you have now doubled down on your suggestion that people be murdered. Yep, you are a very, very horrible person alright.
At least you don't try to hide it, shiatbag.

No, I did not suggest that people be murdered. Tar and feathers, though...

demaL-demaL-yeH: Your core value and most salient characteristic is blatant dishonesty.


An obvious joke, in poor taste or no, is still a joke.
Now back to the math, you dishonest coont.
(You know, where you claimed that there was no way to pay a living wage to Leslie and her chainmates when I underscored the ridiculous executive compensation packages where she works.)
 
2012-12-11 10:59:35 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: udhq: Charity is the opposite of justice.

The Hebrew word for charity is both justice and righteousness.

/And you are a very, very horrible person.


The poor should not be forced to survive merely at the pleasure of the wealthy. And if you honestly think that belief makes one a horrible person, then there's a phrase that describes exactly what you are:

That phrase is "social Darwinist."

/I would have also excepted "plutocratic coont"
 
2012-12-11 11:00:02 PM  
demaL-demaL-yeH: Don't forget the millions of good-paying jobs exported to Communist China - directly facilitated by Wal*Mart.

-----------------

And how Wal-Mart, at a time of record profits, had the taxpayer build them an airport.

If there is any justice in this world, after the violence subsides and the Hamptons stop burning, every member of the Walton family will be hunted across the globe a la post war Nazis.
 
2012-12-11 11:00:12 PM  
Everyone here is artistic.
 
2012-12-11 11:00:20 PM  

Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?
 
2012-12-11 11:01:07 PM  

Uzzah: Holocaust Agnostic: theres are the kind of people democrats legally mandated that you put in charge of your healthcare.

I know. I was so much better off when I didn't have any healthcare at all.


In the context of when it happens, "no change" does not seem a probable alternative outcome to "the heritage foundation's plan". But don't worry, another decade will go by, a bunch of Obama's big insurance buddies will get even more absurdly rich, it will be a disaster again, and something sensible will happen. For the low low cost of only 10ish more years of avoidable poverty and sickness.
 
2012-12-11 11:02:14 PM  

FunkOut: Everyone here is artistic.


I can't even sketch very well.
 
2012-12-11 11:03:05 PM  

udhq: I would have also excepted "plutocratic coont"


Done.

/Except I spelled "accepted" correctly.
 
2012-12-11 11:04:26 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?


Do you have any idea how much money nurses make? Choose a different profession for your example. RNs clean the fark up - they make more than engineers in most markets.
 
2012-12-11 11:06:08 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?


Except instead of Nurse Jane we're talking about Cafeteria Lady Mary and Janitor Bob.

TFA is specifically complaining about unskilled non medical wages. I would like my hospital janitor to be motivated to clean my OR well, but having been to Pittsburgh, I imagine there's a huge amount of competition for unskilled jobs.
 
2012-12-11 11:09:01 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: An obvious joke, in poor taste or no, is still a joke.


no, just another example of you making an excuse for why you say stupid shiat

demaL-demaL-yeH: Now back to the math, you dishonest coont.
(You know, where you claimed that there was no way to pay a living wage to Leslie and her chainmates when I underscored the ridiculous executive compensation packages where she works.)


gladly... just quote where i said that, you... what's the phrase... "dishonest coont"?
Seriously, how many times are you going to be caught lying in back to back posts all the while accusing me of dishonesty? We gonna do this all night or can I go back to xbox?
 
2012-12-11 11:09:39 PM  
Pittsburgh Farker here.

UPMC (and yes, that's what it's known as by everyone here, I don't think I've heard "University of Pittsburgh Medical Center" sounded out in years) practically IS Oakland and has a substantial presence in other parts of the city. They've been able to slowly choke out other hospitals by not allowing the UPMC health insurance plan to cover those hospitals that might actually pose a threat. Small practices have also given up trying to work with UPMC and just let themselves be bought out and be done with it. Evil profit-seeking corporation, right? Look at the name! It's a non-profit school-affiliated medical center! This is a Farker's wet dream! This is what you want on a national scale!

Although, I wouldn't trust anything City Paper says. They're your typical hipster/20-something self described radical newpaper that you'll see at any coffee. The kind of paper that every city is by law required to have at least one of. They have local music listings, that's about the only reason I ever read it.
 
2012-12-11 11:09:45 PM  
Your wages are taxable. Free food is not taxed. Even if you make so little that your household pays no tax, there is still additional payroll tax for any wage increases.

If you make $10/hr and get a raise to $10.25/hr, I'm sure you won't be overjoyed about it, because it's only $10/wk raise. Instead of giving each employee a $.25/hr raise, imagine that we take the $10/wk for every employee and pump it into a food bank. Let's say you have 50,000 employees. $500,000 for your food bank every week, instead of increasing wages by tiny marginal amount that employees will never appreciate. Even more money with government grants, etc. That's quite a lot of food that could be available for a low price. Assuming that administration costs are not exorbitant. Of course they will be, so we know who wins... the administrators. In the end, probably 9/10 of funds go toward administrative costs.

/not necessarily in favor of the food bank
//doesn't get paid enough money. Can I please have some more?
 
2012-12-11 11:11:14 PM  

nekom: Are there no prisons? What of the work camps?


HUMBUG!
 
2012-12-11 11:11:36 PM  

Silly Jesus: ryant123: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

If the $11 is profit then you can boost his pay to $15 and still be making $6 profit on every widget he makes.

No. I get handed $11 when I hand over my widget. I pay my worker $10 and keep $1. Just using easy numbers.


OK tell me one factory in the world where workers get 90% of the gross profit. I'm in engineering, where skilled workers are in high demand, and I get 30% of the charge-out rate.

Your math is bullshiat.
 
2012-12-11 11:13:17 PM  

Gordian Cipher: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Hey! Here's another great idea!

/Have the company open a store where employees can buy necessities like food and clothing on credit. Then the payments could just be taken directly out of their paychecks
//what could possibly go wrong?

Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

/I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points


I work at a hospital that does this. I eat two meals a day there since I do not have time in the morning to eat breakfast beforehand and I'm happy to just eat sandwiches in the afternoon. Paying this on a credit card is silly since your credit card accumulates interest and having it withdrawn from your paycheck is the same as cash.
 
2012-12-11 11:13:21 PM  
I'm pretty sure these farks would have kicked Tiny TIm down the stairs.
 
2012-12-11 11:13:55 PM  

willfullyobscure: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

An investigation by the IRS and the FBI, because any business with that kind of COGS ratio in gross margins is clearly a money laundering operation and Bob is muling the dough out of the country up his ass or baked into the widgets.


Are you kidding?? Oil refiners and grocers would KILL for a 9% margin.
 
2012-12-11 11:14:12 PM  

nytmare: Scott Adams could make a week-long Dilbert series out of this article.


But Scott Adams is a right-wing fascist pig.
 
2012-12-11 11:15:39 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: ShavedApe: It's interesting looking at UPMC's financial statements. It's especially interesting when you know that companies cook the books prior to making them public.

Link the their 2011 financial statements. (PDF warning)

So, $3.5 billion in unrestricted CASH and another $3.5 billion in the rainy-day-golf-trips-to-Bermuda fund. And they're pulling in $500 million in extra cash year-over-year in spite of an aggressive building program.

Niiiiiiiiice.


Who's annual report are you reading?
 
2012-12-11 11:16:37 PM  
"It was two days before Thanksgiving and my unit director came up, put an arm around me and said 'we've been hearing what you've been saying,'" Poston told City Paper earlier today. "She pulled out a flyer and said, 'We're starting a food bank for the employees.'"

/Really, you're going to give me surplus cheese and mystery meat instead of a living wage, and decent benefits? YAY YOU...WHAT A GUY!! I wonder how much the unit director is making a year. This is exactly why they should join the union. A livable wage and benefit, that is fair to the employees and to the company. Of course the only way this will happen is to vote it in at 51 percent. Good luck folks.

/SEIU member...
//contract negotiation team.
 
2012-12-11 11:17:32 PM  

wholedamnshow: Gordian Cipher: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Hey! Here's another great idea!

/Have the company open a store where employees can buy necessities like food and clothing on credit. Then the payments could just be taken directly out of their paychecks
//what could possibly go wrong?

Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

/I don't do that
//I'd rather put it on the credit card that earns me points

I work at a hospital that does this. I eat two meals a day there since I do not have time in the morning to eat breakfast beforehand and I'm happy to just eat sandwiches in the afternoon. Paying this on a credit card is silly since your credit card accumulates interest and having it withdrawn from your paycheck is the same as cash.


If they're not selling that food at cost, they are flat out stealing from you mang.
 
2012-12-11 11:17:53 PM  

GAT_00: That sounds about right. Don't pay your workers enough? Why not open a food bank so other people can buy them food that you won't pay them enough for.

This is exactly what you get with capitalism.


In your profile you say that you like capitalism.
 
2012-12-11 11:20:22 PM  

Silly Jesus: joonyer: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

HAHA! I used an idiotic example to explain a complex problem! And when you claim it makes no sense, I'll just say that you don't get it! HAHA!

Forest for the trees....classic backpedal of a dumbass argument.

In summary, Silly Jesus, I could eat alphabet soup and shiat a better argument than that.

It's the fact that everyone was concentrating on a mis-statement and ignoring the larger argument. I really does seem autistic. Aspergers maybe?


No, it's that you sound less informed than a grade ten student who took an intro to business class.
 
2012-12-11 11:23:43 PM  

Funk Brothers: You see corporations do care about their people. When their employees don't make enough, they come with charity. Wal-Mart should open up food banks for their employees too.

We don't need unions, we need charity.


What about the mom and pop stores that pay their employees the same or less than Walmart pays? Should they open food banks too?
 
2012-12-11 11:24:25 PM  

IlGreven: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Liquidation. You run a lousy company, and you're doing Bob no favors by not being able to pay him a living wage. It'll hurt, but it'll be better in the long run.


This. Why can't Bob sell his widgets directly for $11 each? He's the one actually producing anything of value.
 
2012-12-11 11:24:35 PM  

bookman: Funk Brothers: You see corporations do care about their people. When their employees don't make enough, they come with charity. Wal-Mart should open up food banks for their employees too.

We don't need unions, we need charity.

What about the mom and pop stores that pay their employees the same or less than Walmart pays? Should they open food banks too?


Oh, wait. That was a rational question. Not needed nor wanted in this thread. Sorry.
 
2012-12-11 11:24:41 PM  

pxlboy: Insatiable Jesus: Either decide that you want to live as a serf under some corporate feudal system or if you want to take your country, and your world back.

Make no mistake, the enemy of America are the wealthy and the corporatists. They launched a coup on this country. Remember oil going out of sight for no readily apparent reason? Yeah, that was them sucking all the the money possible out of the bottom of the system. The Wall Street crash? That was money being sucked out of the top of the system. They systematically looted our wealth from bottom to top and blamed it on speculators and black people buying homes, respectively.

Now they sit on their wealth while the nation that played host to so many of them bleeds and suffers. And these insufferable pricks use that misery to hold this nation hostage and demand the dismantling of decades worth of hard fought labor law and lower taxes for themselves.

Power has never simply quit the field. Never in history has power just stepped aside or stopped seeking MORE power. It has to be driven off with blades and bullets. Power only understands power. These people have no intention of stopping until they have as much power and control over our lives as possible. The see this nation as something for them to rightfully plunder, citing the fact that people like themselves built this country and created this economy. Never mind that if any of the wealthy families of today never existed, somebody else would have done those same things. But they believe themselves to be special, above us.

They need to be shown that they are not special. That they bleed and suffer and burn like those that they tread upon so callously.

Musket Balls.

Faces.

It's time to take out the Tories, again.

This.


I'm not going to hold my breath....
 
2012-12-11 11:24:46 PM  
hope and change...
 
2012-12-11 11:24:54 PM  

skullkrusher: gladly... just quote where i said that


Implicature. Applied to this turd of a comment:

skullkrusher: Twenty-three employees pulling in more than a million? In a $5 billion non-profit?
I think I know where I'd look for enough money to get Leslie and her chainmates a raise to a living wage after nine years.

a different job?


Now break out the math and offer a principled argument for your position that she can't be paid a living wage for her work
- or go back to your X-Box.

Just pick one.
 
2012-12-11 11:28:02 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: demaL-demaL-yeH: ShavedApe: It's interesting looking at UPMC's financial statements. It's especially interesting when you know that companies cook the books prior to making them public.

Link the their 2011 financial statements. (PDF warning)

So, $3.5 billion in unrestricted CASH and another $3.5 billion in the rainy-day-golf-trips-to-Bermuda fund. And they're pulling in $500 million in extra cash year-over-year in spite of an aggressive building program.

Niiiiiiiiice.

Who's annual report are you reading?


Oh, it's you, the overly-persistent thread-shiatter. I'm going to farkie you in troll gray 1.
Somebody here will tell me when you finally make a reasoned response.
RTFT (Read this fine thread.)
 
2012-12-11 11:28:25 PM  
Suckmaster Burstingfoam: pxlboy: Insatiable Jesus: Either decide that you want to live as a serf under some corporate feudal system or if you want to take your country, and your world back.

Make no mistake, the enemy of America are the wealthy and the corporatists. They launched a coup on this country. Remember oil going out of sight for no readily apparent reason? Yeah, that was them sucking all the the money possible out of the bottom of the system. The Wall Street crash? That was money being sucked out of the top of the system. They systematically looted our wealth from bottom to top and blamed it on speculators and black people buying homes, respectively.

Now they sit on their wealth while the nation that played host to so many of them bleeds and suffers. And these insufferable pricks use that misery to hold this nation hostage and demand the dismantling of decades worth of hard fought labor law and lower taxes for themselves.

Power has never simply quit the field. Never in history has power just stepped aside or stopped seeking MORE power. It has to be driven off with blades and bullets. Power only understands power. These people have no intention of stopping until they have as much power and control over our lives as possible. The see this nation as something for them to rightfully plunder, citing the fact that people like themselves built this country and created this economy. Never mind that if any of the wealthy families of today never existed, somebody else would have done those same things. But they believe themselves to be special, above us.

They need to be shown that they are not special. That they bleed and suffer and burn like those that they tread upon so callously.

Musket Balls.

Faces.

It's time to take out the Tories, again.

This.

I'm not going to hold my breath....

---------------------

Me either. We are pussified and pacified. People won't give a shiat or engage in any critical thinking until they're boiling down the leather seats from their Lexus for food. And then it will be too late.
 
2012-12-11 11:28:32 PM  

Lsherm: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?

Do you have any idea how much money nurses make? Choose a different profession for your example. RNs clean the fark up - they make more than engineers in most markets.


How does that make any difference? Jane can't move, and UPMC knows that. UPMC also has a monopoly in the area. Is it OK for UPMC to pay her starvation wages instead of the prevailing wage?
 
2012-12-11 11:29:07 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Implicature. Applied to this turd of a comment:


looks like your implicature was the "turd" but projection is all you have.

demaL-demaL-yeH: Now break out the math and offer a principled argument for your position that she can't be paid a living wage for her work


still isn't my argument. I am dreadfully sorry that you've got a counter all worked up for the argument you wish we were having but your dishonest attempts to create an argument which isn't happening aren't very well disguised.
 
2012-12-11 11:30:32 PM  
Company stores. Wow, le plus ca change, le plus la meme chose.
 
2012-12-11 11:31:18 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: BarkingUnicorn: demaL-demaL-yeH: ShavedApe: It's interesting looking at UPMC's financial statements. It's especially interesting when you know that companies cook the books prior to making them public.

Link the their 2011 financial statements. (PDF warning)

So, $3.5 billion in unrestricted CASH and another $3.5 billion in the rainy-day-golf-trips-to-Bermuda fund. And they're pulling in $500 million in extra cash year-over-year in spite of an aggressive building program.

Niiiiiiiiice.

Who's annual report are you reading?

Oh, it's you, the overly-persistent thread-shiatter. I'm going to farkie you in troll gray 1.
Somebody here will tell me when you finally make a reasoned response.
RTFT (Read this fine thread.)


I was reading UMPMC's 2011 annual report, linked above. It's nothing like what you describe.
 
2012-12-11 11:32:07 PM  
So, if I'm reading this thread correctly, Henry Ford was a raging fool. ...Alrighty then.
 
2012-12-11 11:32:42 PM  

Silly Jesus: Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.


People nitpic when they can't discuss ideas without sounding like a total moran.

I've had that happen a lot in working environments where people like the debate "facts" that really amount to a hill of beans in the larger picture.
 
2012-12-11 11:33:13 PM  

thenino85: Pittsburgh Farker here.

UPMC (and yes, that's what it's known as by everyone here, I don't think I've heard "University of Pittsburgh Medical Center" sounded out in years) practically IS Oakland and has a substantial presence in other parts of the city. They've been able to slowly choke out other hospitals by not allowing the UPMC health insurance plan to cover those hospitals that might actually pose a threat. Small practices have also given up trying to work with UPMC and just let themselves be bought out and be done with it. Evil profit-seeking corporation, right? Look at the name! It's a non-profit school-affiliated medical center! This is a Farker's wet dream! This is what you want on a national scale!

Although, I wouldn't trust anything City Paper says. They're your typical hipster/20-something self described radical newpaper that you'll see at any coffee. The kind of paper that every city is by law required to have at least one of. They have local music listings, that's about the only reason I ever read it.


Pitt is not a "state" school, per se, though. It's "state-related", but it's not under state control. UPMC itself has its roots in Presbyterian Hospital, and has never been under true state control.
 
2012-12-11 11:36:56 PM  

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Stop being a sociopathic farktard

Pay Bob a living wage. Raise the cost of widgets to reflect the increased labor costs.
 
2012-12-11 11:38:05 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: How does that make any difference? Jane can't move, and UPMC knows that. UPMC also has a monopoly in the area. Is it OK for UPMC to pay her starvation wages instead of the prevailing wage?


You meant, "living wage," obviously. The prevailing wage is exactly what Jane is getting, if UPMC has a monopoly.

The problem with "living wage" is that it's different for different lives. Jane has a sick mother, maybe four kids. John has no dependents. How do you justify paying Jane more than John for doing the same job?

I've asked this question many times in many threads. Crickets.
 
2012-12-11 11:39:11 PM  

dericwater: Company stores. Wow, le plus ca change, le plus la meme chose.


this is a terrible solution to a labor grievance but it is nothing at all like a company store
 
2012-12-11 11:40:18 PM  

Cataholic: willfullyobscure: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

An investigation by the IRS and the FBI, because any business with that kind of COGS ratio in gross margins is clearly a money laundering operation and Bob is muling the dough out of the country up his ass or baked into the widgets.

Are you kidding?? Oil refiners and grocers would KILL for a 9% margin.



Read it again, employee compensation is 91% of unit production before any other cost. That's either an economy of scale that makes Wal*mart look like a corner store, or its gross misuse of funds and incredibly suspicious. Vastly overpaying employees for doing almost nothing is a classic money laundering ploy.

Or maybe Bob's selling $11 cakes at the church bake sale on Fridays and Silly Jesus is taking the $1 as a tithe and we're talking $40-50/week, in whcih case, Bob needs to give up baking and go find a real job so his family can eat.
 
2012-12-11 11:42:06 PM  

Catlike Typist: So, if I'm reading this thread correctly, Henry Ford was a raging fool. ...Alrighty then.


Henry could pretty much pay whatever he wanted because he had a large productivity advantage over competitors. For a while. That time is past.
 
2012-12-11 11:43:23 PM  
Well, if it's like any other type of bank, it will be run by Jews. So free bagels and latka for everyone!
 
2012-12-11 11:44:12 PM  
This isn't 2007 anymore. Employers are struggling to meet payroll, food banks are drying up and there are millions of people who don't know where their next meal will come from.  'Charity', as crazy as it sounds, will be the new normal unless our economy is turned around.
 
2012-12-11 11:44:58 PM  

TorqueToad: draa: Gordian Cipher: Heh, my company lets you link your paycheck with your ID badge, so you can just swipe your badge in the cafeteria and have the money taken out of your paycheck. I'm sure it's all legal (Fortune 500 company and all), but it seems awful close to Hooverville.

It's the same way at Wal-Mart. They don't allow you to put it on credit toward your paycheck but their employees buying goods from them is basically the same. If they pay someone $10 an hour but that person buys $200-$300 a month from their company, they are only paying that person about $6 an hour after their purchases. If you figure that most people employed at Wal-Mart have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart(because it's all they can afford and still survive), then Wal-Mart is getting cheap labor because they don't pay shiat for the crap they sell anyway. It's a goddamn shame that people more people don't realize just how bad some companies are farking folks in this country and demand a change. I think we need about 2-3 days of a national strike but most people can't afford to miss that much work.

I don't really see the difference for the employee. So what if they buy stuff where they work? Wherever they buy their stuff that they need to live, they are paying retail markup to someone. Why not pay it to where they work? Or somewhere else? Really, why does it matter? It's not like they force the employees to do it. And this probably happens at most retail stores, not just Wal Mart anyway. I don't see any point to what you're saying here.


You make a good point but they are still getting cheap labor where if they paid a decent wage their employees would have a choice to shop at Wal-Mart or not. Most don't have that choice so it's really no different than the compay stores of old. I certainly know that many are eating Great Value foods because they can't afford anything else. So, if you think forcing people to buy your shiat because you don't pay them enough to have a choice is ok then good for you. Personally I think it's a racket to save money on wages because they know employees don't have much choice but to buy their crap. Where as if they paid more their employees could have better nutritional choices and could shop locally. I certainly know many that can't afford that though they would like to do so. Also. I was mainly refering to Food and not the other "cheap" crap that Wal-Mart sells. I should have been more clear on that point.
 
2012-12-11 11:45:36 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: How do you justify paying Jane more than John for doing the same job?

I've asked this question many times in many threads. Crickets.


It's a stupid question.
Or, at least, it's stupid the way you've worded it.

A better question would be, what do we base it on?
Personal living expenses plus one dependent?
Family of four, single breadwinner?
No one has ever suggested it be different for people with different living situations.
 
2012-12-11 11:46:28 PM  

lelio: People nitpic when they can't discuss ideas without sounding like a total moran.


You spelled nitpick wrong.
 
2012-12-11 11:47:23 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: UPMC is the biggest employer in the region, is one of the largest landowners, and is largely tax exempt. They threatened to cut off service to all Blue Cross customers if BC/BS bought one of the local smaller hospital systems.

They're kinda dicks.


Twenty-two executives and physicians at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center made more than $1 million in 2010, and UPMC President and CEO Jeffrey Romoff topped the list with $5.97 million in total compensation, according to a Pittsburgh Business Times report.

In 2010, Mr. Romoff had a base salary of $959,210, roughly $3.7 million in bonuses and incentives and nearly $800,000 in retirement benefits after turning 65, according to the report.
 
2012-12-11 11:47:30 PM  
BarkingUnicorn: Catlike Typist: So, if I'm reading this thread correctly, Henry Ford was a raging fool. ...Alrighty then.

Henry could pretty much pay whatever he wanted because he had a large productivity advantage over competitors. For a while. That time is past.

------------------

Yeah, thanks to you and yours deciding that the Communist Chinese should be allowed to compete with the USA using an unpegged currency and govt subsidy of export product.
 
2012-12-11 11:47:36 PM  

LordOfThePings: lelio: People nitpic when they can't discuss ideas without sounding like a total moran.

You spelled nitpick wrong.


He meant to say picnic, I think. It makes more sense in context.
 
2012-12-11 11:48:50 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: BarkingUnicorn: How do you justify paying Jane more than John for doing the same job?

I've asked this question many times in many threads. Crickets.

It's a stupid question.
Or, at least, it's stupid the way you've worded it.

A better question would be, what do we base it on?
Personal living expenses plus one dependent?
Family of four, single breadwinner?
No one has ever suggested it be different for people with different living situations.


Do it your way. Justify paying John for dependents he doesn't have.
 
2012-12-11 11:50:32 PM  

Krymson Tyde: [i44.photobucket.com image 580x435]


Your magazine, subscribe to it I would.
 
2012-12-11 11:51:03 PM  

i.imgur.com

UPMC?

i.imgur.com

 
2012-12-11 11:51:41 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Well, if it's like any other type of bank, it will be run by Jews. So free bagels and latka for everyone!


Bank? We're talking about hospitals.

Come back when you have retuned your innappropriate racist joke generator.
 
2012-12-11 11:55:52 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Do it your way. Justify paying John for dependents he doesn't have.


We're not paying anyone based on the number of dependents he does have. In this hypothetical scenario, we're paying him based on the number he could have. He could use that money for anything. He could get himself a dependent. He could use it for education and training. He could blow it all on scratch off lottery tickets. It doesn't matter.
What does matter is that he can support himself, he's got spending money keep the economy going, and he's off the dole. It's the least we can offer anyone who works for a living.
 
2012-12-11 11:56:35 PM  

Tyranicle: This isn't 2007 anymore. Employers are struggling to meet payroll, food banks are drying up and there are millions of people who don't know where their next meal will come from. 'Charity', as crazy as it sounds, will be the new normal unless our economy is turned around.


Somebody is doing well.
 
2012-12-11 11:56:43 PM  

JohnCarter: Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much she is getting paid per hour and what work she is doing. Also what is her situation.

- Does she have like 10 kids?
- Are the 10 kids from 8 dads who pay no support?
- Did she borrow foolishly in the housing bubble and now owes a huge mortgage she cannot cover?
- New car every 2 years?

Article lacks details to fuel our (possible) indignation


THIS. After I read the article I started wondering if she is just one of 100 with problems or is it every employee? Is her $200 per month cable bill causing her problems or is it because basic living expenses exceed her salary? Really do need more information before we can say the company is at fault or if the employee is the one to blame. Or both.
 
2012-12-11 11:57:47 PM  

Fart_Machine: Tyranicle: This isn't 2007 anymore. Employers are struggling to meet payroll, food banks are drying up and there are millions of people who don't know where their next meal will come from. 'Charity', as crazy as it sounds, will be the new normal unless our economy is turned around.

Somebody is doing well.


Lord Black is doing wonderfully in his second term.
 
2012-12-12 12:05:45 AM  

SithLord: Fart_Machine: SithLord: Welcome to Obama's America. This is what Pittsburgh voted for. Fark 'em.

LOLWUT?

The future of America. And Pittsburgh voted for the One bringing it all to us. Again, Fark 'em.


www.trilobite.org
You dumbshiats keep using that word...
 
2012-12-12 12:11:55 AM  
Another worker who wants to destroy AMERICA! Like they destroyed Twinkies!!!!
 
2012-12-12 12:14:42 AM  
"There's no pleasing some people."

"That's just what Jesus said, sir."
 
2012-12-12 12:15:26 AM  

thenino85: Pittsburgh Farker here.

UPMC (and yes, that's what it's known as by everyone here, I don't think I've heard "University of Pittsburgh Medical Center" sounded out in years) practically IS Oakland and has a substantial presence in other parts of the city. They've been able to slowly choke out other hospitals by not allowing the UPMC health insurance plan to cover those hospitals that might actually pose a threat. Small practices have also given up trying to work with UPMC and just let themselves be bought out and be done with it. Evil profit-seeking corporation, right? Look at the name! It's a non-profit school-affiliated medical center! This is a Farker's wet dream! This is what you want on a national scale!

Although, I wouldn't trust anything City Paper says. They're your typical hipster/20-something self described radical newpaper that you'll see at any coffee. The kind of paper that every city is by law required to have at least one of. They have local music listings, that's about the only reason I ever read it.


So to summarize your point:
Everyone on Fark is wrong
The paper is wrong
UPMC is wrong
So everyone is wrong except you
 
2012-12-12 12:17:55 AM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


nuke china and india, charge a new post nuke rate of $25 per widget, pay your employee $11 since food is now alot cheaper with 2 billion less people eating and no one else will fark with you and try to produce widgets cheaper
 
2012-12-12 12:18:59 AM  
They just need to ask for the lords help : )
 
2012-12-12 12:20:53 AM  

Fart_Machine: Tyranicle: This isn't 2007 anymore. Employers are struggling to meet payroll, food banks are drying up and there are millions of people who don't know where their next meal will come from. 'Charity', as crazy as it sounds, will be the new normal unless our economy is turned around.

Somebody is doing well.


"For the final three months of fiscal 2011, UPMC recorded $91.83 million in operating profit... and $2.39 billion in total revenue from operations"

About 3.8%, very close to Walmart's profit margin.

"Systemwide, UPMC anticipates adding about 2,000 new jobs, from customer service representatives to physicians, with the largest number -- from 500 to 600 new jobs -- in clinical support positions such as diagnostic technicians and dietary staff.

"Those new jobs will be in addition to 1,900 new full-time jobs created during fiscal 2011, which had followed the shedding of 243 positions in fiscal 2010."

Yeah, I'd say UPMC is doing pretty well, if you like low profit margins and job creation.
 
2012-12-12 12:21:44 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: UPMC is the biggest employer in the region, is one of the largest landowners, and is largely tax exempt. They threatened to cut off service to all Blue Cross customers if BC/BS bought one of the local smaller hospital systems.

They're kinda dicks.

Since non-medical employees began seeking unionization earlier this year from SEIU, they have been telling the public about the low wages paid by the healthcare giant and how it affects their ability to make ends meet.


Guess we know why their workers are trying to unionize then.

/but don't worry, unions are evil and government regulations will protect us.
 
2012-12-12 12:22:23 AM  
FTA: "I don't need them to pick out my food for me; I need them to pay me better wage so I can pick out my own food,"


THE POINT, CORPORATE ASSHOLES. YOU MISSED IT.
 
2012-12-12 12:23:04 AM  

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.


Hey it's a guaranteed job and at least you know when this "unpaid internship" will end!

/I gagged a little typing that...
 
2012-12-12 12:26:03 AM  

JWideman: IlGreven: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Liquidation. You run a lousy company, and you're doing Bob no favors by not being able to pay him a living wage. It'll hurt, but it'll be better in the long run.

This. Why can't Bob sell his widgets directly for $11 each? He's the one actually producing anything of value.


Because he doesn't have the supply chain, sales force, manufacturing capabilities, advertising, or patents that the company has??
 
2012-12-12 12:26:30 AM  

cuzsis: L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.

Hey it's a guaranteed job and at least you know when this "unpaid internship" will end!

/I gagged a little typing that...


gagged you say? so youve been an intern for clinton?
 
2012-12-12 12:27:47 AM  

cuzsis: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: UPMC is the biggest employer in the region, is one of the largest landowners, and is largely tax exempt. They threatened to cut off service to all Blue Cross customers if BC/BS bought one of the local smaller hospital systems.

They're kinda dicks.

Since non-medical employees began seeking unionization earlier this year from SEIU, they have been telling the public about the low wages paid by the healthcare giant and how it affects their ability to make ends meet.

Guess we know why their workers are trying to unionize then.

/but don't worry, unions are evil and government zero regulations will protect us.


FTFY.
 
2012-12-12 12:29:56 AM  
oi clueless over paid execs trying to find the cheapest way to save face in the media and blowing it completely.

two things need to happen single payer healthcare and a major increase in the minimum wage at least a $5 bump.
 
2012-12-12 12:31:57 AM  

fredklein: JWideman: IlGreven: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Liquidation. You run a lousy company, and you're doing Bob no favors by not being able to pay him a living wage. It'll hurt, but it'll be better in the long run.

This. Why can't Bob sell his widgets directly for $11 each? He's the one actually producing anything of value.

Because he doesn't have the supply chain, sales force, manufacturing capabilities, advertising, or patents that the company has??


And because that would make him a capitalist pig who hogs all the wealth and creates no jobs.

/the level of naivete' is exceptionally high tonight. Winter Break already?
 
2012-12-12 12:35:52 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Yeah, I'd say UPMC is doing pretty well, if you like low profit margins and job creation.


Except for the folks who need to use a food bank to compensate for their low wages apparently.
 
2012-12-12 12:38:48 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: They just need to ask for the lords help : )


Mags, you're in a musical mood tonight. What's your in-a-music-mood booze of choice?
 
2012-12-12 12:40:45 AM  
Speaking of Dire Straits....

I go down to Speaker's Corner I'm thunderstruck
They got free speech, tourists, police in trucks
Two men say they're Jesus one of them must be wrong
There's a protest singer singing a protest song - he says
'they want to have a war to keep us on our knees

They want to have a war to keep their factories
They want to have a war to stop us buying Japanese
They want to have a war to stop Industrial Disease
They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind
They want to sap your energy incarcerate your mind
They give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three

Two weeks in Espana and Sunday striptease'
Meanwhile the first Jesus says 'I'd cure it soon
Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons'
The other one's on a hunger strike he's dying by degrees
How come Jesus gets Industrial Disease?!

 
2012-12-12 12:43:58 AM  

Silly Jesus: positive p: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Silly Jesus:

2. Even if the company isn't hurting (which is the case for some of them, for some of them it isn't), show me where any company is obligated to pay anyone some arbitrary amount which will make their employee "comfortable."


Ah I think we're finally making progress. Here you've clearly equivocated. You think that not being hungry is a 'comfort' instead of a basic function of human dignity in a society that can easily afford to eradicate this problem as if it were polio.

This is the lack of moral leadership people keep complaining about.

Businesses are not charities.


Well they shouldn't farking rely on charities to cover their employees because the CEO needs 5.7 Mil. (from a link upthread).
 
2012-12-12 12:54:28 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: They just need to ask for the lords help : )

Mags, you're in a musical mood tonight. What's your in-a-music-mood booze of choice?


one scotch one bourbon one beer well you asked ; )
 
2012-12-12 12:56:42 AM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Guess you're going to go out of business because no one is willing to starve to death for your company.

/Ta-da!
 
2012-12-12 12:58:06 AM  
But they said the wealth would trickle down...
 
2012-12-12 01:00:37 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: They just need to ask for the lords help : )

Mags, you're in a musical mood tonight. What's your in-a-music-mood booze of choice?

one scotch one bourbon one beer well you asked ; )


Don't mix those - one-way trip to bed-spin hangover city.

/Sippin' a shot of honey-pepper vodak here.
//Waiting for eldest-child-at-home to finish her homework.
 
2012-12-12 01:03:02 AM  

Gleeman: But they said the wealth would trickle down...


Yeah, that about that.

You're the lucky recipient of a shower of gold, pee-on.

/Building a pitchfork, torch, and rail factory.
 
2012-12-12 01:17:27 AM  

cuzsis: Guess you're going to go out of business because no one is willing to starve to death for your company.


Well then, nobody is working for starvation wages. There is no problem!

/the kids really did get out school early!
 
2012-12-12 01:18:27 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: They just need to ask for the lords help : )

Mags, you're in a musical mood tonight. What's your in-a-music-mood booze of choice?

one scotch one bourbon one beer well you asked ; )

Don't mix those - one-way trip to bed-spin hangover city.

/Sippin' a shot of honey-pepper vodak here.
//Waiting for eldest-child-at-home to finish her homework.


Oh, I know all about bad mixing of alcohol.
ans congrates on patience to raise kids not something I'd ever want to do.
 
2012-12-12 01:35:15 AM  

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


Well, if you're a typical CEO in the United States, you pay yourself $2,000 for every $10 that you pay Bob, write off your losses against corporate taxes, then when the debt piles up you fire Bob before awarding yourself a $20 million bonus for a job well done or, in the worst of cases, pay yourself a $100 million golden parachute before leaving the company in someone else's hands.

According to Republicans, this is called being a successful job creator and deserving of tax cuts.
 
2012-12-12 01:41:41 AM  
Industry. - The business of making things and selling them.

Capitalism. - The practice of moving liquid capital into services and industries and financing their growth for a profitable return.

Corporatism. - The practice of gutting businesses with gymnastic financial constructs, pocketing the money and moving on to the next business to wreck.

Governance. - The institution that legislates in favor of whoever manages to grab the most loot.
 
2012-12-12 01:41:57 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH:
//Waiting for eldest-child-at-home to finish her homework.

Oh, I know all about bad mixing of alcohol.
ans congrates on patience to raise kids not something I'd ever want to do.


Mags, I think you'd range from fine to excellent.
You have a warped enough sense of humor and are grounded well enough in reality to pull it off.
Besides, we're hard-wired for it.

But thank you.

/And off she goes. Looking sheepish.
//Poke fun at the jackasses for me - I'm out of here.
 
2012-12-12 01:42:05 AM  
LOL!

This is like starting a food bank inside of Africa and asking the malnourished people to donate to it :D
 
2012-12-12 01:42:55 AM  
Hey, I'd rather my company gave most of its employees a food bank than this December's bonus.

/Layoff papers
//Spare change, anyone?
 
2012-12-12 01:43:22 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: I think this has happened before Link


It did.

It ended up with a lot of noble heads in baskets and some guy named Napoleon running most of Europe, IIRC.
 
2012-12-12 01:44:55 AM  

fredklein: JWideman: IlGreven: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.

I don't want to get into a long discussion, but $10 profit is above and beyond the wage you're paying the worker. I'm talking about the wealth created by a wage slave's work.

Huh?

I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

Liquidation. You run a lousy company, and you're doing Bob no favors by not being able to pay him a living wage. It'll hurt, but it'll be better in the long run.

This. Why can't Bob sell his widgets directly for $11 each? He's the one actually producing anything of value.

Because he doesn't have the supply chain, sales force, manufacturing capabilities, advertising, or patents that the company has??


Cuz THAT'S covered by the 9% left after 91% employee compensation per unit, uh huh. Nope, money laundering is still the most likely candidate for this scenario. here's how it goes down...


Lilly Cheesus fronts a "manufacturing shop" in Bumfark, and he has contracts for widgets from Boliver Morth, who works for the Fed. Boliver pays Billy Wheesus in direct cash payments(wired) and invoices 200,000 widgets a month for $11/ea. But Milly Beesus only produces 200 widgets, which are round, hollow containers you see, that he actually buys at Family Dollar, and he contracts with farking BOB to make them and farking BOB is a double digit IQ Teaderper that thinks being on a 1099 is the cats pajamjams and he pays farking BOB by the peice, and farking BOB is all like SCHWEET MAH NIGG CASH MONAY becuase he gets $2000/mo for painting these units brown or something while working 20hr/week and that's not sufficient for his brood of 4 sticky children and a wife that never wears anything but pajama bottoms and underwear halter tops with her Uggs, so there's some unresolved tension there but Filly Leesus keeps telling farking BOB that orders are gonna be up next month or some stupid shiat which farking BOB totally believes and fronts him some cash or lunch and shiat, and Gilly Meesus records his costs on book at 10:1 thanks to farking BOB'S paychecks we he records as operating expenses because farking BOB is on that 1099 yall and then fudges his deliverables by 3 decimal places to the right.

Dilly Peesus pays himself $8K/mo which IS farkING BALLIN' YO and puts a cardboard case of 200 units on a long haul service on the 23rd of every month and gets the bill of lading which somehow matches up with his fudgy receivable and HE STAPLES THEM TOGETHER YO AND MAILS THEM TO... Boliver Morth, who submits them in triplicate to his accounting team. It's a flawless scheme.
 
2012-12-12 01:50:16 AM  
Plug and play labor is gonna have us all behind plows and ass deep in mud for ol massah corpy while he dines on pork chops.
 
2012-12-12 01:51:19 AM  
This will end well...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-12 01:53:44 AM  

Insatiable Jesus: Either decide that you want to live as a serf under some corporate feudal system or if you want to take your country, and your world back.

Make no mistake, the enemy of America are the wealthy and the corporatists. They launched a coup on this country. Remember oil going out of sight for no readily apparent reason? Yeah, that was them sucking all the the money possible out of the bottom of the system. The Wall Street crash? That was money being sucked out of the top of the system. They systematically looted our wealth from bottom to top and blamed it on speculators and black people buying homes, respectively.

Now they sit on their wealth while the nation that played host to so many of them bleeds and suffers. And these insufferable pricks use that misery to hold this nation hostage and demand the dismantling of decades worth of hard fought labor law and lower taxes for themselves.

Power has never simply quit the field. Never in history has power just stepped aside or stopped seeking MORE power. It has to be driven off with blades and bullets. Power only understands power. These people have no intention of stopping until they have as much power and control over our lives as possible. The see this nation as something for them to rightfully plunder, citing the fact that people like themselves built this country and created this economy. Never mind that if any of the wealthy families of today never existed, somebody else would have done those same things. But they believe themselves to be special, above us.

They need to be shown that they are not special. That they bleed and suffer and burn like those that they tread upon so callously.

Musket Balls.

Faces.

It's time to take out the Tories, again.


There was a time when suggesting this would have been reactionary and stupid. Not anymore.
 
2012-12-12 01:56:01 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: tinfoil-hat maggie: demaL-demaL-yeH:
//Waiting for eldest-child-at-home to finish her homework.

Oh, I know all about bad mixing of alcohol.
ans congrates on patience to raise kids not something I'd ever want to do.

Mags, I think you'd range from fine to excellent.
You have a warped enough sense of humor and are grounded well enough in reality to pull it off.
Besides, we're hard-wired for it.

But thank you.

/And off she goes. Looking sheepish.
//Poke fun at the jackasses for me - I'm out of here.


Heh, you just like confusing me don't you : )
 
2012-12-12 02:01:26 AM  

Gyrfalcon: tinfoil-hat maggie: I think this has happened before Link

It did.

It ended up with a lot of noble heads in baskets and some guy named Napoleon running most of Europe, IIRC.


Hey Napoleon was really the high point of that whole affair, Really it's the same as it ever was we still have religious crazies waiting to take control, rich getting richer at the expenses of their laborers.
 
2012-12-12 02:10:37 AM  
Only in America do people complain about being given free food.
 
2012-12-12 02:13:57 AM  

giftedmadness: Only in America do people complain about being given free food.


And France. Having the audacity to scoff at cake. The nerve!
 
2012-12-12 02:14:30 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Gleeman: But they said the wealth would trickle down...

Yeah, that about that.

You're the lucky recipient of a shower of gold, pee-on.

/Building a pitchfork, torch, and rail factory.


Oh, trickled ON! That's what they were saying...
 
2012-12-12 02:15:48 AM  

Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?


I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.
 
2012-12-12 02:19:07 AM  

giftedmadness: Only in America do people complain about being given free food.


You mean like this? And that was recorded live in 1986 under saint reagun.
; )
 
2012-12-12 02:20:10 AM  

giftedmadness: Only in America everywhere do people complain about being given free foodthe embarassment of having to take free food because of not being paid a living wage.


Fixed
 
2012-12-12 02:21:42 AM  

Giblet: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.


Yeah, cuz everyone is hiring right now, right?
 
2012-12-12 02:22:39 AM  

UltimaCS: giftedmadness: Only in America do people complain about being given free food.

And France. Having the audacity to scoff at cake. The nerve!


Those Russian surfs were also so uncouth, why couldn't they respect the rights of their...Hmmm how does one phrase this in favor of the people owning all the land.
 
2012-12-12 02:27:28 AM  
No one has mentioned that, thanks to Bush and Obama economic decisions, these worker's pay isn't worth much, and that is the real problem.

Your company chits, despite the classy forefather pics, aren't worth the rag paper they're printed on.

But yeah, go blame the employer. Unionize. Strike. Who knows? Maybe that company won't relocate and leave 20,000 people fighting for 4 MacDonald's jobs.
 
2012-12-12 02:31:36 AM  
theelephantgun.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-12 02:35:00 AM  
Giblet: So otherwise "Derp"
Thanks for playing
 
2012-12-12 02:36:25 AM  

Abacus9: Giblet: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.

Yeah, cuz everyone is hiring right now, right?


Bob had a job making $10 a widget: more than 95% of all people make. He was dissatisfied. His employer was dissatisfied. So the job was sent overseas.

Bob will work it out, or else his genes won't cloud our lovely pool.

Struggle against the logic all you like, but you will either adapt to it or starve.
 
2012-12-12 02:42:33 AM  

Silly Jesus: jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.

I don't mean your unicorn fru-fru fantasy idea of what his soul is worth...I mean his worth to the company.

If you're making the company a $10 profit per hour of your labor, your labor isn't worth $15 an hour, no matter how hungry your family is.


All you have to do is look at the increasing disparity in the distribution of wealth between worker and owners/investors to know that a lot of people are not getting paid "what they are worth". There are a lot of ways for individual workers to be taken advantage of and your idea that everyone is getting paid exactly what they are "worth" is frankly not true. If an employee is generating $100 of profit per hour are they worth more than $10/hour? Or will that employer be tempted to pocket the $90 instead of $80 to put out a quarterly report that shows an extra 0.2cents/share growth?

The evidence is there that wages and the labor market have been taking the hit to further profits. Does this look like people getting paid what they are worth?
http://dailybail.com/home/chart-us-corporate-profits-vs-employee-wage s .html
 
2012-12-12 02:48:50 AM  
You live in a globalized economy now, whether you like it or not.

That was a bipartisan decision. One of many that you ignored because you were OMGLOLing your life away.

If Mabewha, who lives in a grass hut, is willing/able to do your job for half of your salary, you better learn to either negotiate well, or learn to make a good mud pie.

Or, maybe you should strike. Yeah! That'll help!
 
2012-12-12 02:50:16 AM  

Giblet: No one has mentioned that, thanks to Bush and Obama economic decisions, these worker's pay isn't worth much, and that is the real problem.

Your company chits, despite the classy forefather pics, aren't worth the rag paper they're printed on.

But yeah, go blame the employer. Unionize. Strike. Who knows? Maybe that company won't relocate and leave 20,000 people fighting for 4 MacDonald's jobs.


If they relocate who is going to buy all the products they are making? American citizens continue to represent the largest purchasers of consumer goods on the planet. In any case you can only exploit less developed nations for so long, until you develop their economies to the point where you are right back to the same labor and regulatory costs you face in a developed nation like the US.

In the long run we are going to have to figure out how to more tightly manage our economy. There are a lot of distruptive technologies on the horizon and robots don't buy cars or clothes, there will be the effects of global warming on food production, and of course are ever expanding population. There are major societal changes on the horizon, both at home and abroad. The world is going to be a very different place in 50 years time.
 
2012-12-12 02:56:36 AM  

Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.

Yeah, cuz everyone is hiring right now, right?

Bob had a job making $10 a widget: more than 95% of all people make. He was dissatisfied. His employer was dissatisfied. So the job was sent overseas.

Bob will work it out, or else his genes won't cloud our lovely pool.

Struggle against the logic all you like, but you will either adapt to it or starve.


Too bad the same rules don't apply to the employer.
 
2012-12-12 03:02:40 AM  

Shahab: Giblet: No one has mentioned that, thanks to Bush and Obama economic decisions, these worker's pay isn't worth much, and that is the real problem.

Your company chits, despite the classy forefather pics, aren't worth the rag paper they're printed on.

But yeah, go blame the employer. Unionize. Strike. Who knows? Maybe that company won't relocate and leave 20,000 people fighting for 4 MacDonald's jobs.

If they relocate who is going to buy all the products they are making? American citizens continue to represent the largest purchasers of consumer goods on the planet. In any case you can only exploit less developed nations for so long, until you develop their economies to the point where you are right back to the same labor and regulatory costs you face in a developed nation like the US.

In the long run we are going to have to figure out how to more tightly manage our economy. There are a lot of distruptive technologies on the horizon and robots don't buy cars or clothes, there will be the effects of global warming on food production, and of course are ever expanding population. There are major societal changes on the horizon, both at home and abroad. The world is going to be a very different place in 50 years time.


Yup.

Companies, since the globalization kicked into high gear in Clinton's last term, are extremely short-sighted. They only forecast 2-3 years out, with a focus on maximizing profits and meeting stock price targets.

That is one major cause of the income disparity that you see today.

Nothing can be done about it, so I recommend buying a crappy farm, far away from all the soon-to-be-angry city folks. Brew some beer. Raise bacon.

Oh wait. I already did that!
 
2012-12-12 03:07:33 AM  

Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.

Yeah, cuz everyone is hiring right now, right?

Bob had a job making $10 a widget: more than 95% of all people make. He was dissatisfied. His employer was dissatisfied. So the job was sent overseas.

Bob will work it out, or else his genes won't cloud our lovely pool.

Struggle against the logic all you like, but you will either adapt to it or starve.

Too bad the same rules don't apply to the employer.


Yeah, but you only vote for those politicians that the employers choose (as advertised on MSNBC and Faux).

Seriously: WTF did you expect to happen? Unicorns and cheesecake?
 
2012-12-12 03:28:49 AM  

Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.

Yeah, cuz everyone is hiring right now, right?

Bob had a job making $10 a widget: more than 95% of all people make. He was dissatisfied. His employer was dissatisfied. So the job was sent overseas.

Bob will work it out, or else his genes won't cloud our lovely pool.

Struggle against the logic all you like, but you will either adapt to it or starve.

Too bad the same rules don't apply to the employer.

Yeah, but you only vote for those politicians that the employers choose (as advertised on MSNBC and Faux).

Seriously: WTF did you expect to happen? Unicorns and cheesecake?


So you're saying both sides are bad...
 
2012-12-12 03:39:45 AM  

Stibium: I'm too drunk to do this debate


Sup? 

/ too high...
 
2012-12-12 03:42:02 AM  

Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Silly Jesus: I own a company, and I sell widgets. I get $11 for each widget that I sell. I pay Bob $10 for each widget that he makes, but his family is hungry. What is your solution for the evil business owner?

I can arrange to have those widgets made for $6 each, including the shipping from Bangalore.

Bob can get a job somewhere else.

Yeah, cuz everyone is hiring right now, right?

Bob had a job making $10 a widget: more than 95% of all people make. He was dissatisfied. His employer was dissatisfied. So the job was sent overseas.

Bob will work it out, or else his genes won't cloud our lovely pool.

Struggle against the logic all you like, but you will either adapt to it or starve.

Too bad the same rules don't apply to the employer.

Yeah, but you only vote for those politicians that the employers choose (as advertised on MSNBC and Faux).

Seriously: WTF did you expect to happen? Unicorns and cheesecake?

So you're saying both sides are bad...


No, I'm saying both "sides" are the same thing.

Obama was picked and promoted by Wall Street. Romney was picked and promoted by Lockheed, Exxon, and pals.

Next election, the sponsors may change or flip "sides", but the goal will remain the same: growing the wealth of a few.

Meanwhile you, and everyone you know, will cheer one of their picks, boo the other one, and wonder why you're making less money and why that money buys less stuff.

You can't fix it. You can't fight it.

You'll try anyway, and I suppose that's admirable.
 
2012-12-12 03:50:44 AM  

Abacus9: Giblet:Yeah, but you only vote for those politicians that the employers choose (as advertised on MSNBC and Faux).

Seriously: WTF did you expect to happen? Unicorns and cheesecake?

So you're saying both sides are bad...


i.qkme.me
 
2012-12-12 04:03:00 AM  

Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet:

So you're saying both sides are bad...

No, I'm saying both "sides" are the same thing.

Obama was picked and promoted by Wall Street. Romney was picked and promoted by Lockheed, Exxon, and pals.

Next election, the sponsors may change or flip "sides", but the goal will remain the same: growing the wealth of a few.

Meanwhile you, and everyone you know, will cheer one of their picks, boo the other one, and wonder why you're making less money and why that money buys less stuff.

You can't fix it. You can't fight it.

You'll try anyway, and I suppose that's admirable.


Gotta try something. I see what you're saying, and somewhat agree, but I don't think most of us moderates cheer too much one way or the other. We just want companies to be held as responsible as their employees.
 
2012-12-12 04:03:31 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: UltimaCS: giftedmadness: Only in America do people complain about being given free food.

And France. Having the audacity to scoff at cake. The nerve!

Those Russian surfs were also so uncouth, why couldn't they respect the rights of their...Hmmm how does one phrase this in favor of the people owning all the land.


I wouldn't want to be one of those poor Alphas! They have to work so hard and so much depends upon them! I'm so glad I'm just a Beta!
 
2012-12-12 04:31:46 AM  

Gyrfalcon: tinfoil-hat maggie: UltimaCS: giftedmadness: Only in America do people complain about being given free food.

And France. Having the audacity to scoff at cake. The nerve!

Those Russian surfs were also so uncouth, why couldn't they respect the rights of their...Hmmm how does one phrase this in favor of the people owning all the land.

I wouldn't want to be one of those poor Alphas! They have to work so hard and so much depends upon them! I'm so glad I'm just a Beta!


Oh my, I think I am in love, well i knew it was possible but never believed it would happen but now I see. Well granted distance does separate us and soon it may even be legal to marry in you're state thoughI don't think I could go back to LA so we'll just have to stay star crossed lovers that never were or something like that ; )
 
2012-12-12 04:33:56 AM  

Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet:

So you're saying both sides are bad...

No, I'm saying both "sides" are the same thing.

Obama was picked and promoted by Wall Street. Romney was picked and promoted by Lockheed, Exxon, and pals.

Next election, the sponsors may change or flip "sides", but the goal will remain the same: growing the wealth of a few.

Meanwhile you, and everyone you know, will cheer one of their picks, boo the other one, and wonder why you're making less money and why that money buys less stuff.

You can't fix it. You can't fight it.

You'll try anyway, and I suppose that's admirable.

Gotta try something. I see what you're saying, and somewhat agree, but I don't think most of us moderates cheer too much one way or the other. We just want companies to be held as responsible as their employees.


I'm not sure that I know what you mean by "responsible". The company exists to make money. The employees are there to do the same. There exists, under the best conditions, some mutual loyalty in that relationship. These are hardly the best conditions.

Bush and Obama have done everything they can to make it hard to do business in the US. I understand employer's desire to make as much as they can as fast as they can, because the future looks just as bleak to them as it does to the employees.

I had to let six great people go two years ago. I couldn't afford to pay the $75K/yr that it cost then to give them a paltry $42K/yr.

It's worse now, and will get even worse yet. It will not improve in the next decade.

Those of you who are employees: good luck. You'll need it.
 
2012-12-12 04:40:03 AM  

Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet:

So you're saying both sides are bad...

No, I'm saying both "sides" are the same thing.

Obama was picked and promoted by Wall Street. Romney was picked and promoted by Lockheed, Exxon, and pals.

Next election, the sponsors may change or flip "sides", but the goal will remain the same: growing the wealth of a few.

Meanwhile you, and everyone you know, will cheer one of their picks, boo the other one, and wonder why you're making less money and why that money buys less stuff.

You can't fix it. You can't fight it.

You'll try anyway, and I suppose that's admirable.

Gotta try something. I see what you're saying, and somewhat agree, but I don't think most of us moderates cheer too much one way or the other. We just want companies to be held as responsible as their employees.

I'm not sure that I know what you mean by "responsible". The company exists to make money. The employees are there to do the same. There exists, under the best conditions, some mutual loyalty in that relationship. These are hardly the best conditions.

Bush and Obama have done everything they can to make it hard to do business in the US. I understand employer's desire to make as much as they can as fast as they can, because the future looks just as bleak to them as it does to the employees.

I had to let six great people go two years ago. I couldn't afford to pay the $75K/yr that it cost then to give them a paltry $42K/yr.

It's worse now, and will get even worse yet. It will not improve in the next decade.

Those of you who are employees: good luck. You'll need it.


If it's so hard to to business these days, why are corporate profits at an all time high?
 
2012-12-12 05:02:16 AM  

Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet:

So you're saying both sides are bad...

No, I'm saying both "sides" are the same thing.

Obama was picked and promoted by Wall Street. Romney was picked and promoted by Lockheed, Exxon, and pals.

Next election, the sponsors may change or flip "sides", but the goal will remain the same: growing the wealth of a few.

Meanwhile you, and everyone you know, will cheer one of their picks, boo the other one, and wonder why you're making less money and why that money buys less stuff.

You can't fix it. You can't fight it.

You'll try anyway, and I suppose that's admirable.

Gotta try something. I see what you're saying, and somewhat agree, but I don't think most of us moderates cheer too much one way or the other. We just want companies to be held as responsible as their employees.

I'm not sure that I know what you mean by "responsible". The company exists to make money. The employees are there to do the same. There exists, under the best conditions, some mutual loyalty in that relationship. These are hardly the best conditions.

Bush and Obama have done everything they can to make it hard to do business in the US. I understand employer's desire to make as much as they can as fast as they can, because the future looks just as bleak to them as it does to the employees.

I had to let six great people go two years ago. I couldn't afford to pay the $75K/yr that it cost then to give them a paltry $42K/yr.

It's worse now, and will get even worse yet. It will not improve in the next decade.

Those of you who are employees: good luck. You'll need it.

If it's so hard to to business these days, why are corporate profits at an all time high?


You're looking at the wrong charts. Mega-corps own the government, and therefore rake in all the profits from government contracts, profits related to subsidized products, and insane tax loopholes.

Mega-corps are not the major employers in the US, and never were; small businesses are the major employers.

The small businesses are shutting their doors because your favorite politician d'jour funnels the SB's potential profits to the entitlement programs that help get them elected, and to beefing up police surveillance/armaments/gear in preparation for the inevitable. These politicians don't dare ask the mega-corps to fund aid programs and entitlements.

We're at the Bread and Circuses stage of decline. No society has ever recovered after reaching this stage without a catastrophic collapse.

Cheerful, huh. Happy Wednesday! I gotta go feed some future ham.
 
2012-12-12 05:30:28 AM  

Abacus9: If it's so hard to to business these days, why are corporate profits at an all time high?


Because if you're a sterile, sociopathic leviathan with good lawyers, it isn't very difficult at all. If you have a sole proprietorship and a conscience, it's like pissing up a rope.
 
2012-12-12 06:18:16 AM  
Those ungrateful bastards. Have they ever even tried cake? It's not like I said "Let them eat Brussels sprouts".
 
2012-12-12 06:52:23 AM  

Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet: Abacus9: Giblet:

So you're saying both sides are bad...

No, I'm saying both "sides" are the same thing.

Obama was picked and promoted by Wall Street. Romney was picked and promoted by Lockheed, Exxon, and pals.

Next election, the sponsors may change or flip "sides", but the goal will remain the same: growing the wealth of a few.

Meanwhile you, and everyone you know, will cheer one of their picks, boo the other one, and wonder why you're making less money and why that money buys less stuff.

You can't fix it. You can't fight it.

You'll try anyway, and I suppose that's admirable.

Gotta try something. I see what you're saying, and somewhat agree, but I don't think most of us moderates cheer too much one way or the other. We just want companies to be held as responsible as their employees.

I'm not sure that I know what you mean by "responsible". The company exists to make money. The employees are there to do the same. There exists, under the best conditions, some mutual loyalty in that relationship. These are hardly the best conditions.

Bush and Obama have done everything they can to make it hard to do business in the US. I understand employer's desire to make as much as they can as fast as they can, because the future looks just as bleak to them as it does to the employees.

I had to let six great people go two years ago. I couldn't afford to pay the $75K/yr that it cost then to give them a paltry $42K/yr.

It's worse now, and will get even worse yet. It will not improve in the next decade.

Those of you who are employees: good luck. You'll need it.


Specifically what did Obama do to make it difficult to do business in the US?
 
2012-12-12 07:56:19 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Lsherm: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Silly Jesus: Holy shiat you people are nit-picky. This thread is the definition of can't see the forest for the trees. The example was broad and cobbled together...it was only meant to represent the idea of not being able to raise pay because it would cut out any profit. People's value, in dollars, is limited by what value, in dollars, they produce.

Is everyone here farking autistic? That's a serious question.

It was an unbelievably dumb question. Here's a better one.

Nurse Jane works in a hospital in Pittsburgh. She brings $300,000 worth of value to the hospital. UPMC knows she can't switch jobs because her mother is very ill and can't be moved or live on her own. Oh, and because UPMC owns all of the hospitals in a 20 mile radius.

Does UPMC have any obligation to pay Nurse Jane enough to eat and keep her heat and electricty on? Or should UPMC pay her the minimum possible, because they know she can't switch jobs?

Do you have any idea how much money nurses make? Choose a different profession for your example. RNs clean the fark up - they make more than engineers in most markets.

How does that make any difference? Jane can't move, and UPMC knows that. UPMC also has a monopoly in the area. Is it OK for UPMC to pay her starvation wages instead of the prevailing wage?


It matters because it's a bogus analogy. Jane can't move, but other nurses can, so UPMC has to pay a market rate for nurses. And RNs don't make starvation wages anywhere. So Jane's not starving regardless of whether she can move or not.
 
2012-12-12 08:16:22 AM  
I bet most of those folks have a smartphone and data plan. Priorities, how do they work?
 
2012-12-12 09:01:35 AM  
Wow, I think we have a leading contender for "Most Clueless Douchebags of 2012".
 
2012-12-12 09:28:36 AM  

BHShaman: I bet most of those folks have a smartphone and data plan. Priorities, how do they work?


Smartphones are cheap, in many cases cheaper than landlines. My nephew got his latest android free with a contract, and it only costs him $35 a month for talk, text and limited data. That's cheaper than my base AT+T landline. The days of mobile phone being strictly a luxury item have been over for a long time.

2012, how does it work?
 
2012-12-12 09:50:36 AM  

Giblet: I had to let six great people go two years ago. I couldn't afford to pay the $75K/yr that it cost then to give them a paltry $42K/yr.


Want to know how I know you've neither hired nor fired another human being?

Bontesla: Specifically what did Obama do to make it difficult to do business in the US?


You're not going to get a coherent answer on that. (See above.)

tinfoil-hat maggie: Giblet: So otherwise "Derp"
Thanks for playing


Perfection. (And I still say you'd make a fine parent.)
 
2012-12-12 09:58:17 AM  
Also, for this idea that companies have to outsource to China or India to be efficient.

Bull.

Keen Footwear bringing production back to the US

Master Lock bringing production to Milwaukee from China

Apple and General Electric returning production lines to the USA

A growing trend in business has been "in-sourcing", taking production back from China to the US to bring manufacturing jobs to America.

The companies interviewed stated several reasons why this is an actual good business move. You see, the lower costs of producing overseas are deceptive, there are all kinds of hidden costs and drawbacks that you don't get with American production lines. Companies saw the lower wages and low/no tariffs and thought it would be a no brainer to build in China, but a decade or more down the line they are seeing why that might not be as much of a universal solution as thought

1. Shipping time and lead time. It takes around 6 weeks for a slow boat from China to bring crap to the Port of Los Angeles. If you need to ramp up production or quickly change a design and get the changes into the marketplace, that's a 6 week (at least) delay, that if your factory is stateside, you don't have. If you have an American factory, you can put things on trucks and have them rolling for stores the moment they are off the lines, without delays on a ship and at port.

2. Quality. Chinese products are known for being, well, total crap. Consumers see "made in China" and their expectations drop like a rock. "Made in the USA" still has market value. It still makes consumers think of quality, and from a marketing standpoint it lets them advertise that they are providing American jobs. In terms of actual quality, that is debateable, but when is the last time you heard about melamine or excessive lead from something built in America?

3. Efficiency. General Electric has found that by putting the design engineers, managers, marketing, and production all under one roof they can make the whole company more efficient. Engineers can visit the assembly line by walking down the hall (not by having to fly across the world). There is zero language or cultural barrier between workers and design and management. If they want to make a tiny change to design or the assembly process to make things more efficient, it can be quickly implemented.

4. IP protection. China is famous for making knock-offs of American designs, they have very little respect for IP. Companies that don't want their products copied illegally are finding that its worth it to be Made in America.
 
2012-12-12 10:19:19 AM  

djkutch: I don't understand why employees shouldn't just be forced to live and work at the job. A little room with a hotplate, if you will. Share a shiater down the hall.


www.streport.com

Ausgezeichnet!
 
2012-12-12 10:20:13 AM  

jaylectricity: Silly Jesus: You should pay me more than I'm worth!

No wage slave has ever been paid even half of what he's worth.


Pfft. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that human life has some sort of intrinsic value. I can assure you that it does not, at least within a Capitalist economy. As the economy falters, and people's desperation grows, the value of human life drops like a rock.
 
2012-12-12 10:22:55 AM  

Giblet: I had to let six great people go two years ago. I couldn't afford to pay the $75K/yr that it cost then to give them a paltry $42K/yr.


42K each, I hope. Surely, great employees aren't worth just $7K apiece, even on a hog farm.
 
2012-12-12 10:23:37 AM  

L.D. Ablo: Let's just bring back indentured servitude.

Sell yourself to a corporation for seven years to get out of your student loans.


"No experience? We'll keep you in our files and let you know if anything comes up."
 
2012-12-12 01:16:53 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH:
Perfection. (And I still say you'd make a fine parent.)


I still think you're crazy : )
 
2012-12-12 03:09:19 PM  
I'm only 100 comments in and too lazy (actually busy at work) to read them all, so apologies to anyone who has already posted anything similar...
 
"Just get another job" - UPMC has damn close to a monopoly on healthcare in the region.  They've bought up everybody.  So there are basically no other healthcare jobs available.  Their near-monopoly allows them to get away with paying the wages they pay, as there's no competition. 
 
When a Blue Cross affiliate dared to buy a local hospital, UPMC said that Blue Cross participants (a huge number of people in the region) would have no more access to UPMC physicians.  Which, again, is basically ALL the physicians.
 
I have various family and friends who have worked for the company and the word that everyone has taken to using to describe them is "evil".  (Let's not get into a philosophical discussion of what is "evil" - the point is that that's how people refer to them.)  Many of these folks - especially in my family - are dyed in the wool Republicans who are anti-union, etc.  If they've worked for or had to do business with UPMC in any way, they DESPISE them. 
 
For instance, a friend who is a doctor says he's evaluated on basically one metric - how much new business he brings in.  That's it.  The guy's a great human and doctor but he's no salesman and so he's getting pummeled.  His family ties to the region keep him there (sick family members, etc) and so he says he'll probably give up medicine.
 
This is a monopolistic corporate behemoth in the guise of a non-profit.  They do not give a damn about their workers, the quality of care of their patients (at least at the management level... the doctors are still doctors and I'm sure they care), or anything besides growth and crushing the competition.
 
2012-12-12 03:33:29 PM  

Lsherm: This reminds me of a complaint one of my coworkers had this year: someone on a conference call spent an hour making fun of everyone else on the call because he thought he had muted his phone. Even worse, since he had the volume for the call turned down, every time they stopped the meeting to ask him to stop being an ass he didn't realize they were talking to him.

Many complaints were sent up the chain and his boss sent out a very apologetic email promising that next time he would make sure he was actually on mute.


Sounds like he has the goods on his boss, or he made up for it under the desk. Or the boss is just particularly spineless and unwilling to fire anyone no matter how unprofessional, which makes him the guy who really needs a firing....
 
2012-12-12 03:39:36 PM  

TomD9938: "I don't need them to pick out my food for me; I need them to pay me better wage so I can pick out my own food," says Poston

That's fair. And if they dont pay you more, go work somewhere that will.

Clearly you're not bieng paid in accordance with your value and it will be your current employers loss when you leave.

/the food bank was a stupid move


The free market doesn't work when there is massive difference in relative power between the participants. That's the whole point of the board game "Monopoly", ironically lost nowadays of course.
 
2012-12-12 05:09:26 PM  

temmerling: I'm only 100 comments in and too lazy (actually busy at work) to read them all, so apologies to anyone who has already posted anything similar...
 
"Just get another job" - UPMC has damn close to a monopoly on healthcare in the region.  They've bought up everybody.  So there are basically no other healthcare jobs available.  Their near-monopoly allows them to get away with paying the wages they pay, as there's no competition. 
 
When a Blue Cross affiliate dared to buy a local hospital, UPMC said that Blue Cross participants (a huge number of people in the region) would have no more access to UPMC physicians.  Which, again, is basically ALL the physicians.
 
I have various family and friends who have worked for the company and the word that everyone has taken to using to describe them is "evil".  (Let's not get into a philosophical discussion of what is "evil" - the point is that that's how people refer to them.)  Many of these folks - especially in my family - are dyed in the wool Republicans who are anti-union, etc.  If they've worked for or had to do business with UPMC in any way, they DESPISE them. 
 
For instance, a friend who is a doctor says he's evaluated on basically one metric - how much new business he brings in.  That's it.  The guy's a great human and doctor but he's no salesman and so he's getting pummeled.  His family ties to the region keep him there (sick family members, etc) and so he says he'll probably give up medicine.
 
This is a monopolistic corporate behemoth in the guise of a non-profit.  They do not give a damn about their workers, the quality of care of their patients (at least at the management level... the doctors are still doctors and I'm sure they care), or anything besides growth and crushing the competition.


So ... we have the best health care in the world, is what you're saying? Sure sounds like it. Hey, it's the free market. It never makes mistakes. Profit is the most important thing.
 
2012-12-12 05:46:28 PM  

FunkOut: There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.


They also moonlight as climatologists.
 
2012-12-12 07:41:49 PM  

Silverstaff: Also, for this idea that companies have to outsource to China or India to be efficient.


You might want to check out video about Shapeworks about 3D printing, their largest factory is in Queens.

Now when the machine can build most anything it won't be cheaper to send it overseas. You only make what you need, so no need to have runs of 10k units and then store them somewhere.
 
2012-12-12 07:43:28 PM  

temmerling: I'm only 100 comments in and too lazy (actually busy at work) to read them all, so apologies to anyone who has already posted anything similar...
 
"Just get another job" - UPMC has damn close to a monopoly on healthcare in the region.  They've bought up everybody.  So there are basically no other healthcare jobs available.  Their near-monopoly allows them to get away with paying the wages they pay, as there's no competition. 
 
When a Blue Cross affiliate dared to buy a local hospital, UPMC said that Blue Cross participants (a huge number of people in the region) would have no more access to UPMC physicians.  Which, again, is basically ALL the physicians.
 
I have various family and friends who have worked for the company and the word that everyone has taken to using to describe them is "evil".  (Let's not get into a philosophical discussion of what is "evil" - the point is that that's how people refer to them.)  Many of these folks - especially in my family - are dyed in the wool Republicans who are anti-union, etc.  If they've worked for or had to do business with UPMC in any way, they DESPISE them. 
 
For instance, a friend who is a doctor says he's evaluated on basically one metric - how much new business he brings in.  That's it.  The guy's a great human and doctor but he's no salesman and so he's getting pummeled.  His family ties to the region keep him there (sick family members, etc) and so he says he'll probably give up medicine.
 
This is a monopolistic corporate behemoth in the guise of a non-profit.  They do not give a damn about their workers, the quality of care of their patients (at least at the management level... the doctors are still doctors and I'm sure they care), or anything besides growth and crushing the competition.


maybe they should form a union
 
2012-12-12 08:21:09 PM  

Graffito: FunkOut: There's a lot of business experts in here with nothing to during the night that sit at their computer and argue with other shut-ins.

They also moonlight as climatologists.


All conveniently located a few posts above all of the failed educators, critics and dime store know-it-alls.
 
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