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(io9)   Scientists claim that homosexuality is not genetic - but it arises in the womb. With helpful picture of completely acceptable lesbian couple   (io9.com) divider line 471
    More: Interesting, genes control, sexual development, womb, lesbians, gays and lesbians, Urban Friberg, William Rice, gay gene  
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21774 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 4:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-11 04:23:32 PM

Buttknuckle: Yeah, I have one of each. The only one who goes against this that I know of is my SO. He's the oldest of three boys.


Both myself and my SO are the youngest. But his family has a number of gay cousins who are the oldest. And I have a gay cousin who is the only child.

/recognized the cousin from online gay 'dating' site
//made for an awkward moment when we met for the first time at his grandfathers funeral
 
2012-12-11 04:23:35 PM

Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

This is why there are / were no gay people in science fiction films and books set in the future. Think about it. Star Trek? No gay people. And why is that? I always just assumed they came up with a 'cure,' and gay people willingly took it, rather than be rejected by half of society.


samjmiller.com

Would like to have a word with you.

/yeah yeah yeah
//"in the past" and all that
 
2012-12-11 04:23:37 PM
Infants and children inadvertently exposed to exogenous sex hormones can suffer devastating consequences expressed as physical changes in the genitalia and overall body structure. How such exposure might affect sexual attraction seems to be unknown.

One wonders what affect prenatal exposure to exogenous hormones might have on the child.
 
2012-12-11 04:24:18 PM
I'm perfectly okay with attractive men hooking up with each other. Less competition for the women.
 
2012-12-11 04:24:41 PM

gingerjet: Buttknuckle: Yeah, I have one of each. The only one who goes against this that I know of is my SO. He's the oldest of three boys.

Both myself and my SO are the youngest. But his family has a number of gay cousins who are the oldest. And I have a gay cousin who is the only child.

/recognized the cousin from online gay 'dating' site
//made for an awkward moment when we met for the first time at his grandfathers funeral


Holy crap, you have a lot of gay people in your family.
 
2012-12-11 04:25:13 PM

Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.


The implication of this study is that even though it's not "genetic," it's epigenetic - meaning that it has to do with how gene expression is influenced by environmental factors. Given that the environment under discussion is a pregnant uterus, it won't be long before anti-gay folks are trying to fund and find treatments and preventative measures and demonize (and criminalize?) any intentional or unintentional action a pregnant woman might take that might contribute to phenotypic homosexuality.
 
2012-12-11 04:25:27 PM
That would make sense since the egg chooses a gender immediately at fertilization but the fetus doesn't start growing gender-specific body parts until around the 18th week. What this means is there is plenty of time to get those two events crossed. The wrong testosterone levels, etc. can produce homosexual, transgender, or hermaphroditic offspring and frequently has.
 
2012-12-11 04:25:39 PM

gingerjet: /recognized the cousin from online gay 'dating' site
//made for an awkward moment when we met for the first time at his grandfathers funeral


///made even more awkward because it was just a penis shot.
 
2012-12-11 04:26:03 PM

Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.


A "gay gene" was found in Drosophila over 15 years ago. They named it "fruity" because mutations in that gene made the flies ... well it made males chase other males instead of females.

I just want to be clear, this "study" is merely a model:

To reach this conclusion, Rice and Friberg created a biological and mathematical model that charted the role of epigenetics in homosexuality.

They generated a hypothesis and looked at some other results and decided the results were consistent with their hypothesis. They have not actually tested their hypothesis. What's more, their prediction contradicts other observations. Here is the key part:

This is the process where DNA expression is influenced by any number of external factors in the environment. And in the case of homosexuality, the researchers argue, the environment is the womb itself.

Fraternal twins share a womb. If one fraternal twin is gay, the prediction from these scientists is the other fraternal twin will always be gay. That is not true. Right there, I have disproven their hypothesis. I tried to find the article online (things get published online in advance all the time) but couldn't find it, so I have no idea if they addressed that or not.
 
2012-12-11 04:26:34 PM

xaratherus: That said, your statement about levels of testosterone is interesting, as my half-sister from my mother's marriage (and the only sibling with whom I was raised) is somewhat masculine (although heterosexual) in build and attitude.


I believe it has more to do with the mother's tolerance for testosterone produced by the fetus. Which as this article again points out, has to do with hormones. I think I first read about it in What God Has Joined Together

/Gay men have larger wing-wings too, so there's that...
 
2012-12-11 04:27:09 PM

Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

This is why there are / were no gay people in science fiction films and books set in the future. Think about it. Star Trek? No gay people. And why is that? I always just assumed they came up with a 'cure,' and gay people willingly took it, rather than be rejected by half of society.

At a press conference in 1989 announcing that Patrick Stewart had been cast as Captain Picard:

Reporter: Surely they would have cured baldness by the 24th century.
Gene Roddenberry: In the 24th century, they wouldn't care.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There was a bald character on Star Trek: The Next Generation. There were no gay characters on TNG. There were characters who flirted with the issue, or topics of an ambiguous nature that implied homosexuality, but no gay characters.

Bald people were represented. Gay people? Not at all.


I wasn't implying there were gay people in TNG... just pointing out that Roddenberry's comments apply just as well to gayness (gaiety?) as baldness. Gay people weren't on TNG because being gay was still awful taboo when the show was made. More modern sci-fi has lots of gay characters: that chick in Stargate: Universe, Adama's brother in Caprica, Vincent in Eureka... hell, even BSG's gay character was named Gaeta.
 
2012-12-11 04:27:32 PM

Buttknuckle: I've noticed that, amongst my friends and I, that the amount of older brothers that you have seems like a common thread.


Youngest of three girls here, my oldest sister is lesbian. This could have been her:
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-11 04:28:08 PM

gingerjet: Buttknuckle: Yeah, I have one of each. The only one who goes against this that I know of is my SO. He's the oldest of three boys.

Both myself and my SO are the youngest. But his family has a number of gay cousins who are the oldest. And I have a gay cousin who is the only child.

/recognized the cousin from online gay 'dating' site
//made for an awkward moment when we met for the first time at his grandfathers funeral


Oh my!
 
2012-12-11 04:28:14 PM

Cythraul: gingerjet: Buttknuckle: Yeah, I have one of each. The only one who goes against this that I know of is my SO. He's the oldest of three boys.

Both myself and my SO are the youngest. But his family has a number of gay cousins who are the oldest. And I have a gay cousin who is the only child.

/recognized the cousin from online gay 'dating' site
//made for an awkward moment when we met for the first time at his grandfathers funeral

Holy crap, you have a lot of gay people in your family.



Their reunions must be fabulous!
 
2012-12-11 04:28:18 PM
Also, related:

25.media.tumblr.com 

During the 90s, gay rights were gaining steam, and so while the issue was clouded in a metaphor about trill mating rules pertaining to mates from past lives, they just so happened to both be women. So when it became a thing that was being discussed and normalized in society, it showed up in science fiction.

/hot
/and hotlinked
 
2012-12-11 04:28:33 PM

Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

This is why there are / were no gay people in science fiction films and books set in the future. Think about it. Star Trek? No gay people. And why is that? I always just assumed they came up with a 'cure,' and gay people willingly took it, rather than be rejected by half of society.


There are gay people in Trek. There's been at least 2 in canon novels centered around a gay member of Starfleet.
 
2012-12-11 04:29:15 PM
This really isn't a new theory, the idea of womb environment being the determining factor along with some evidence along those lines has been around for a while. Stress, birth order, and getting bathed with to many hormones have been given as possible causes, none of them mutually exclusive. Anyway, I've pretty much assumed for years based on the research that the homosexuality was probably epigenetic.
 
2012-12-11 04:29:44 PM

Cythraul: I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There was a bald character on Star Trek: The Next Generation. There were no gay characters on TNG. There were characters who flirted with the issue, or topics of an ambiguous nature that implied homosexuality, but no gay characters.


www.emagill.com

/not technically a gay character
//but explored the theme of non-hetero relationships specifically
///and had a dark and bleak ending
 
2012-12-11 04:30:18 PM
Here is the article I was talking about Cythraul and xaratherus. There's also a correlation between unequal barr bodies (deactivated X chromosomes) the mother has and if her sons are gay. So if her barr bodies aren't around equal in her body then her sons are more likely to be gay. That's some pretty neat epigenetic stuff too.
 
2012-12-11 04:30:52 PM

d3: I like to ask conservatives if they would be in favor of government regulation of industry if they learned the chemicals being put into products were turning people gay. It turns into a fun thought experiment until their heads explode.


The inverse of that is would liberals still be in favor of governmentregulation if they learned the FDA approved chemicals being put into their food were to prevent people from becomng gay?

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." attributed to George Washington
 
2012-12-11 04:32:08 PM
Oops, almost forgot about this one:

blastr.com

/I'll be in my bunk
 
2012-12-11 04:32:10 PM

Arkanaut: I've always thought it had something to do with the hormone level of the mother during pregnancy.


This has been a theory for a long time and some researches have indicated possible connection, but it has not stood up to rigorous study. The gay gene hypothesis was rejected at least 20 years ago, but it persists in popular media.
 
2012-12-11 04:32:22 PM
Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour. The instinct for sex involves thrusting and groping and kissing and so forth. If you get horny at the sight of a naked man, or if you get horny at the sight of a naked woman, it is only because you have been taught to make that association.

Bushmen don't have any more interest in female breasts than they do in elbows. The Western fascination with breasts is not instinctive. Certain deviants find stinky feet to be objects of desire. There is very little 'hard-wiring' involved in sexual attraction. You grope and fondle and kiss with whatever you've been taught to be appropriate.

In Imperial China, foot-binding was used to produce the 'lotus foot'. In bowdlerised accounts, Westerners are told that it caused a woman to be housebound and dependent upon her husband. Actually, the 'lotus foot' was used for both manual (pedal?) masturbation of the man, and also as a plug to stimulate a man's anus when the woman wrapped her legs around him during sexual intercourse.
 
2012-12-11 04:34:09 PM

Ishkur: Cythraul: I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There was a bald character on Star Trek: The Next Generation. There were no gay characters on TNG. There were characters who flirted with the issue, or topics of an ambiguous nature that implied homosexuality, but no gay characters.

[www.emagill.com image 300x238]

/not technically a gay character
//but explored the theme of non-hetero relationships specifically
///and had a dark and bleak ending


Word has it that Jonathan Frakes wanted the character he falls in love with to be played by a man to make the underlining message of the episode more obvious, but the higher-ups shot that down real quick and put the Moe wig on a chick instead.
 
2012-12-11 04:34:17 PM

Two16: samjmiller.com

Would like to have a word with you.


That's the distant past, not the distant future.
 
2012-12-11 04:34:20 PM
No lesbian couple can be called "completely acceptable" unless unclothed, well oiled and in 69 mode.
 
2012-12-11 04:34:52 PM

letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour. The instinct for sex involves thrusting and groping and kissing and so forth. If you get horny at the sight of a naked man, or if you get horny at the sight of a naked woman, it is only because you have been taught to make that association.

Bushmen don't have any more interest in female breasts than they do in elbows. The Western fascination with breasts is not instinctive. Certain deviants find stinky feet to be objects of desire. There is very little 'hard-wiring' involved in sexual attraction. You grope and fondle and kiss with whatever you've been taught to be appropriate.

In Imperial China, foot-binding was used to produce the 'lotus foot'. In bowdlerised accounts, Westerners are told that it caused a woman to be housebound and dependent upon her husband. Actually, the 'lotus foot' was used for both manual (pedal?) masturbation of the man, and also as a plug to stimulate a man's anus when the woman wrapped her legs around him during sexual intercourse.


ametia.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-11 04:35:38 PM

misanthropologist: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

The implication of this study is that even though it's not "genetic," it's epigenetic - meaning that it has to do with how gene expression is influenced by environmental factors. Given that the environment under discussion is a pregnant uterus, it won't be long before anti-gay folks are trying to fund and find treatments and preventative measures and demonize (and criminalize?) any intentional or unintentional action a pregnant woman might take that might contribute to phenotypic homosexuality.


lol, yeah right... they don't know the first thing about science to make that happen. Unless, "Put garlic near your twat to prevent the ghey," counts as science.
 
2012-12-11 04:36:45 PM

SarahDiddle: Here is the article I was talking about Cythraul and xaratherus. There's also a correlation between unequal barr bodies (deactivated X chromosomes) the mother has and if her sons are gay. So if her barr bodies aren't around equal in her body then her sons are more likely to be gay. That's some pretty neat epigenetic stuff too.


Okay I was wrong about the testosterone thing but This is an abstract for the maternal immune hypothesis of male sexuality. In essence the mother's immune system gets involved and antigens from the mother go on to affect the developing fetus' brain.

/this is crazy interesting
 
2012-12-11 04:37:18 PM
Why is this even still a debate? Come on, we ALL knew a gay kid. He'd play Barbie with the girls when you needed him to play football so that the teams would be even. He'd suck his teeth to express disappointment. He had "mannerisms" that his Dad/Uncles would try to break him out of ("Boy, stop holding your wrist limp like that" "Boy, stop talking like that. You been around your mama too long"). When I was in 4th grade the gay kids name was Erin. He hung with the popular girls but he never had a girlfriend. He jumped rope...We all knew he was gay, he just didn't have anyone to be gay with him.
 
2012-12-11 04:37:35 PM

Gordian Cipher: Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

This is why there are / were no gay people in science fiction films and books set in the future. Think about it. Star Trek? No gay people. And why is that? I always just assumed they came up with a 'cure,' and gay people willingly took it, rather than be rejected by half of society.

At a press conference in 1989 announcing that Patrick Stewart had been cast as Captain Picard:

Reporter: Surely they would have cured baldness by the 24th century.
Gene Roddenberry: In the 24th century, they wouldn't care.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There was a bald character on Star Trek: The Next Generation. There were no gay characters on TNG. There were characters who flirted with the issue, or topics of an ambiguous nature that implied homosexuality, but no gay characters.

Bald people were represented. Gay people? Not at all.

I wasn't implying there were gay people in TNG... just pointing out that Roddenberry's comments apply just as well to gayness (gaiety?) as baldness. Gay people weren't on TNG because being gay was still awful taboo when the show was made. More modern sci-fi has lots of gay characters: that chick in Stargate: Universe, Adama's brother in Caprica, Vincent in Eureka... hell, even BSG's gay character was named Gaeta.


How does that phrase apply, when there were no gay people in TNG? That's almost like saying, 'in the future, no one will care what race you are,' while having absolutely nothing but white people on the show.
 
2012-12-11 04:38:19 PM
img.gawkerassets.com
media.syracuse.com
 
2012-12-11 04:38:24 PM

Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

This is why there are / were no gay people in science fiction films and books set in the future. Think about it. Star Trek? No gay people. And why is that? I always just assumed they came up with a 'cure,' and gay people willingly took it, rather than be rejected by half of society.


Dax totally kissed a girl that one time.

I prefer to think that it's a non-issue in the future so people just don't feel the need to make a big deal about it and discuss the morality of it all the freaking time. There were probably plenty of crew members that had same sex partners it just wasn't an issue and everyone got treated the same. Remember those dudes from next gen that wore those silly skirt uniforms, maybe they were the gay ones.
 
2012-12-11 04:39:04 PM

Buttknuckle: I've noticed that, amongst my friends and I, that the amount of older brothers that you have seems like a common thread.


science agrees: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=having-older-brothers -inc
 
2012-12-11 04:39:14 PM
So. . . it is a birth defect?

Sounds about right.
 
2012-12-11 04:39:44 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Why is this even still a debate? Come on, we ALL knew a gay kid. He'd play Barbie with the girls when you needed him to play football so that the teams would be even. He'd suck his teeth to express disappointment. He had "mannerisms" that his Dad/Uncles would try to break him out of ("Boy, stop holding your wrist limp like that" "Boy, stop talking like that. You been around your mama too long"). When I was in 4th grade the gay kids name was Erin. He hung with the popular girls but he never had a girlfriend. He jumped rope...We all knew he was gay, he just didn't have anyone to be gay with him.


I'm gay. I played with 'the boys.' Our favorite games were to go out camping, playing 'war' where we'd 'shoot' each other with plastic guns (later BB guns) and tackle your opponent if they tried to cheat and run away. I played with G.I. Joes, Transformers, and did other 'boy' things.

Not that this matters, since you're just trolling.
 
2012-12-11 04:39:59 PM
Prey4reign No lesbian couple can be called "completely acceptable" unless unclothed, well oiled and in 69 mode.

Lesbians are not hot. Lesbians are a fetish for involuntarily abstinent young men who have been desensitised to normal sexual imagery.
 
2012-12-11 04:41:28 PM

letrole: Prey4reign No lesbian couple can be called "completely acceptable" unless unclothed, well oiled and in 69 mode.

Lesbians are not hot. Lesbians are a fetish for involuntarily abstinent young men who have been desensitised to normal sexual imagery.


You're definitely gay.
 
2012-12-11 04:41:50 PM

lennavan: Fraternal twins share a womb. If one fraternal twin is gay, the prediction from these scientists is the other fraternal twin will always be gay. That is not true. Right there, I have disproven their hypothesis. I tried to find the article online (things get published online in advance all the time) but couldn't find it, so I have no idea if they addressed that or not.


Yeah but fraternal twins usually do not share a placenta (it can happen, but it's rare). They may share the same area but they're encased in their own bubbles so to speak and can then get differing levels of hormones, antibodies, nutrition, etc. So they may share the womb but womb conditions may vary for them,.
 
2012-12-11 04:42:28 PM

burndtdan: Also, related:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 160x122] 


/hot
/and hotlinked


thatreallyrustlesmyjimmies.jpg
 
2012-12-11 04:43:02 PM

Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.


Given the higher rate of mental illness, sucide attempts etc in gays one could argue that it would be a cure.

Any man that would prefer sex with Barney Frank instead of Jessica Alba has to be mentally ill.
 
2012-12-11 04:43:08 PM
One request to HOT lesbian couples:

Make me a sammich!

/Please!
 
2012-12-11 04:43:42 PM

misanthropologist: The implication of this study is that even though it's not "genetic," it's epigenetic - meaning that it has to do with how gene expression is influenced by environmental factors.


That's an amazingly poor definition of the word epigenetic. DNA (and thus a gene) is made up of A, T, C and G. One way to change gene expression is to change that DNA sequence, to change an A, T, C or G (or more than one). Epigenetics is the study of anything heritable that alters gene expression that is not altering the A, T, C or G sequence. Epigentics is not the study of how eating a cookie alters gene expression.
 
2012-12-11 04:43:51 PM

hasty ambush: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

Given the higher rate of mental illness, sucide attempts etc in gays one could argue that it would be a cure.

Any man that would prefer sex with Barney Frank instead of Jessica Alba has to be mentally ill.


8/10
 
2012-12-11 04:44:40 PM

Lumpmoose: So gays are born this way but we aren't conceived this way.


Are you outing yourself?
 
2012-12-11 04:44:41 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Why is this even still a debate? Come on, we ALL knew a gay kid. He'd play Barbie with the girls when you needed him to play football so that the teams would be even. He'd suck his teeth to express disappointment. He had "mannerisms" that his Dad/Uncles would try to break him out of ("Boy, stop holding your wrist limp like that" "Boy, stop talking like that. You been around your mama too long"). When I was in 4th grade the gay kids name was Erin. He hung with the popular girls but he never had a girlfriend. He jumped rope...We all knew he was gay, he just didn't have anyone to be gay with him.


All of this is stereotypical myth. One of my very best friends growing up was just like every other boy. Rough and tumble, into sports and with no feminine affectations. He started becoming a bit unsure of himself and withdrawn in high school. It took me awhile, but I finally got him to admit he believed he was gay. As it turns out, he was. He didn't act on his impulses until he joined the military and found there were a lot of guys like him. He died of cancer a few years back. In all the time I knew him, he never acted gay. You wouldn't have known it unless he told you. I know a lot of quite masculine gay men, who cannot abide the gay affectations.
 
2012-12-11 04:44:48 PM

letrole: Prey4reign No lesbian couple can be called "completely acceptable" unless unclothed, well oiled and in 69 mode.

Lesbians are not hot. Lesbians are a fetish for involuntarily abstinent young men who have been desensitised to normal sexual imagery.


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-11 04:44:52 PM
well i think sex is completely gay
 
2012-12-11 04:44:54 PM

Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Cythraul: Gordian Cipher: Good. Finding a 'gay gene' would just mean that some well-funded asshat would start working on a cure.

This is why there are / were no gay people in science fiction films and books set in the future. Think about it. Star Trek? No gay people. And why is that? I always just assumed they came up with a 'cure,' and gay people willingly took it, rather than be rejected by half of society.

At a press conference in 1989 announcing that Patrick Stewart had been cast as Captain Picard:

Reporter: Surely they would have cured baldness by the 24th century.
Gene Roddenberry: In the 24th century, they wouldn't care.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. There was a bald character on Star Trek: The Next Generation. There were no gay characters on TNG. There were characters who flirted with the issue, or topics of an ambiguous nature that implied homosexuality, but no gay characters.

Bald people were represented. Gay people? Not at all.

I wasn't implying there were gay people in TNG... just pointing out that Roddenberry's comments apply just as well to gayness (gaiety?) as baldness. Gay people weren't on TNG because being gay was still awful taboo when the show was made. More modern sci-fi has lots of gay characters: that chick in Stargate: Universe, Adama's brother in Caprica, Vincent in Eureka... hell, even BSG's gay character was named Gaeta.

How does that phrase apply, when there were no gay people in TNG? That's almost like saying, 'in the future, no one will care what race you are,' while having absolutely nothing but white people on the show.


The phrase applies to your statement that in the future they would have been cured.

/that whooshing sound was the point flying over your head
 
2012-12-11 04:44:56 PM

letrole: Prey4reign No lesbian couple can be called "completely acceptable" unless unclothed, well oiled and in 69 mode.

Lesbians are not hot. Lesbians are a fetish for involuntarily abstinent young men who have been desensitised to normal sexual imagery.


Lesbians are, at the very least, a 2 for 1 special on naked ladies.
 
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