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(Yahoo)   There is more to moving at supersonic speeds than just using jet-fuel, as these New Jersey motorists are about to find out   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 60
    More: Fail, supersonic speed, New Jersey, fuel pump, jet fuel, aviation fuel, Ugh!, underground storage tanks, motorists  
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11493 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2012 at 3:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



60 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-11 12:53:39 PM
So?
 
2012-12-11 12:59:42 PM
Several cars stalled on Friday when a gas station in Keyport and one in Manasquan unknowingly pumped jet fuel into their tanks.

Um, no.
 
2012-12-11 01:05:56 PM
300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene.
 
2012-12-11 01:06:31 PM
See now, if they had diesels everything would have been fine.
 
2012-12-11 01:31:07 PM
i3.ytimg.com
 
2012-12-11 01:40:53 PM

Relatively Obscure: [i3.ytimg.com image 320x180]


Came specifically for this.
 
2012-12-11 02:16:59 PM
There is more to moving at supersonic speeds, Horatio,
Than are jet-fueled in your philosophy.
 
2012-12-11 03:22:37 PM
"Swing low chariot, come down easy... Taxi to the terminal zone..."
 
2012-12-11 03:23:49 PM
cache.gawkerassets.com
 
2012-12-11 03:23:51 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Relatively Obscure: [i3.ytimg.com image 320x180]

Came specifically for this.

 
2012-12-11 03:23:59 PM

St_Francis_P: See now, if they had diesels everything would have been fine.


Actually came here to say something about diesels being just fine with it.
 
2012-12-11 03:24:59 PM
So hows that Flex-fuel thing working out for you? Not so much huh?
 
2012-12-11 03:25:13 PM
This is why they can't be trusted to pump their own gas.
 
2012-12-11 03:26:26 PM
www.johnnysupersonic.com
 
2012-12-11 03:26:56 PM
Was it Jet-A or 100 LL? That 100LL will kill a catalytic converter.
 
2012-12-11 03:27:37 PM
And in this case, you can't trust the attendants/station/fuel vendor who provide the fuel and pump it for you.
 
2012-12-11 03:27:38 PM
It's a bit worse when they pump auto fuel (or Av gas) into jet planes.

Kinda hard to pull over and call for a tow when climbing through 3000 feet.
 
2012-12-11 03:28:09 PM
This kind of thing wouldn't happen if we could pump our own gas, right?
 
2012-12-11 03:29:08 PM

tricycleracer: 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene.


I was kind of disappointed when I found out jet fuel was basically kerosene. I expected something far more exciting.
 
2012-12-11 03:29:40 PM
wildcardjack: Was it Jet-A or 100 LL? That 100LL will kill a catalytic converter.

One of my buddy's dad was a helicopter mechanic. He helped us put a helicopter turbo on a trashed VW Sirrocco and filled us up with avgas. Car was fun, for about a week.
 
2012-12-11 03:30:02 PM
It's okay, I drive one of these:

www.instablogsimages.com
 
2012-12-11 03:31:16 PM
JP-7?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-11 03:31:35 PM
Approves.
 
cdn.bleacherreport.net
 
2012-12-11 03:32:45 PM
netringer:

It's a bit worse when they pump auto fuel (or Av gas) into jet planes.

Kinda hard to pull over and call for a tow when climbing through 3000 feet.


I'm just guessing here, but given that regular gasoline is quite a lot more volatile than jet fuel...

"Kinda hard to pull over and call for a tow when engulfed in a fireball.

/ ok, maybe not *quite* that bad, but...
 
2012-12-11 03:33:42 PM
i1151.photobucket.com
Clem says jet-fuel makes a lousy bourbon substitute as well.
 
2012-12-11 03:34:08 PM

farkingismybusiness: This is why they can't be trusted to pump their own gas.


It is New Jersey, you don't pump your own gas.
 
2012-12-11 03:34:49 PM

Insatiable Jesus: One of my buddy's dad was a helicopter mechanic. He helped us put a helicopter turbo on a trashed VW Sirrocco and filled us up with avgas. Car was fun, for about a week.


www.ronpatrickstuff.com
Link
 
2012-12-11 03:35:28 PM
I buy 100LL for my FF from my local small-strip airfield. When I initially talked to the guy,he said that, for his logs, I have a 'homebuilt experimental craft'. I even have a tail number for it (a mash of the frame # and builder's initials). Now that I'm in 'the system', whatever that is, I can buy at any of the local small strips.
 
2012-12-11 03:35:53 PM

spcMike: St_Francis_P: See now, if they had diesels everything would have been fine.

Actually came here to say something about diesels being just fine with it.


Sterling engine would have been fine
 
2012-12-11 03:44:52 PM

ThrowYourHatredDown: farkingismybusiness: This is why they can't be trusted to pump their own gas.

It is New Jersey, you don't pump your own gas.


And they can't even get that right.
 
2012-12-11 03:47:39 PM
I thought it was diesel fuel being refined fuel oil and jet fuel being refined kerosene?
 
2012-12-11 03:48:09 PM
You think someone would have smelled the difference.
That stuff is thick and greasy smelling, Not at all like gasoline.
 
2012-12-11 03:56:10 PM

farkingismybusiness: ThrowYourHatredDown: farkingismybusiness: This is why they can't be trusted to pump their own gas.

It is New Jersey, you don't pump your own gas.

And they can't even get that right.


Ha! This from some clown who lives in DC.
 
2012-12-11 03:59:03 PM
mightybaldking: You think someone would have smelled the difference.
That stuff is thick and greasy smelling, Not at all like gasoline.


I was in Germany on business once, my ex and the kids were in France. I get a call from her asking me to confirm for her that gas and gasoil are the same thing. I could not. She then asked me if I thought that difference might have anything to do with the fact that her rental car was "on fire". Wasn't cheap.
 
2012-12-11 04:06:25 PM
Sure, if it was a diesel it would ran just fine... for a small amount of time.

Then the high pressure fuel pump would get no lubrication and then it would start puking 15k worth of HPFP parts through the entire fuel system and you would be extra screwed.

Unless of course, you had an older diesel with no HPFP, then it would proably be ok, but would still be hell on the injection pump. Lubricity is your best friend.
 
2012-12-11 04:27:12 PM
Sally had a KIA
She topped-off with JetA
And extended flaps
For takeoff
On one fine Jersey day.

She stalled into the breakdown lane
And bailed into the scrum
Flying down the turnpike
Riding on her thumb.
 
2012-12-11 04:40:23 PM
The cars just won't run well on JET-A. Modern cars unlike piston airplanes have knock sensors that will shut things down pretty badly if the octane is way off.
 
2012-12-11 04:59:05 PM
Brother in law had an old Nova we BUILT back in the very early 80's. He liked power & had a good disposable income at the time. He was working at a plane shop at the time & would run 130 octane ave gas on the weekends. Scary power & lots of fun.


CSB, sort of...
 
2012-12-11 05:08:39 PM
We used to get JP5 ( I think ) put in our diesel amphibious assault vehicles while aboard ships. It didn't do much other than make the engines run hotter.
 
2012-12-11 05:19:58 PM

ChipNASA: JP-7?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x235]


There is something awefully farking scary about using the same liquid that you use for fuel as your coolant.
 
2012-12-11 06:06:26 PM
I'm not sure why people think jet fuel would make a car run faster, the truth is it will most likely not run at all, or run like shiat. Jet fuel is pretty much the equivalent of kerosene, it may have a higher octane than normal gasoline but it definitely wont work in a normal gas engine. The only exception may be JP-4, which is a 50-50 mix of kerosene and gasoline, but it's still going to run like crap and smoke like a mofo.
 
2012-12-11 06:14:48 PM

ReapTheChaos: it may have a higher octane than normal gasoline


No; much much lower. It will knock like crazy. You're thinking of Av Gas, which is high octane gas for piston engined aircraft.
 
2012-12-11 06:18:45 PM
Jet fuel ignites under compression and not by spark like gasoline does.

In a car it would obviously stall because of the low compression. May run in a diesel though but that would be a different pump.
 
2012-12-11 06:21:14 PM
I like the commenter in the link that made it into an anti-union screed.
 
2012-12-11 06:26:45 PM

Hack Patooey: I buy 100LL for my FF from my local small-strip airfield. When I initially talked to the guy,he said that, for his logs, I have a 'homebuilt experimental craft'. I even have a tail number for it (a mash of the frame # and builder's initials). Now that I'm in 'the system', whatever that is, I can buy at any of the local small strips.


You don't need any kind of permission to buy AvGas. The airport guy was just making up a customer number for their fuel logs.

You do have a problem because you aren't paying state road taxes, but you are paying federal aviation improvement fund taxes, so thanks.
 
2012-12-11 06:44:57 PM

ShamanGator: Brother in law had an old Nova we BUILT back in the very early 80's. He liked power & had a good disposable income at the time. He was working at a plane shop at the time & would run 130 octane ave gas on the weekends. Scary power & lots of fun.


CSB, sort of...


Yes, it is totally cool! I think so, anyway. So, what happened to the Nova? Still have it? Sold it? Done anymore similar projects?
 
2012-12-11 06:45:55 PM

SirTanon: It's okay, I drive one of these:

[www.instablogsimages.com image 394x261]


That's actually funny. I used to have a diesel Rabbit and after fueling up one day I went in to pay and the nice young lady behind the counter stared at me wide eyed and said "You just put diesel in that!?!"
to which I smiled and politely replied " I hope so".

Yes it's a really shiatty article and the answers range from "So what?" to "So what, drain the tank."


SwiftFox: I thought it was diesel fuel being refined fuel oil and jet fuel being refined kerosene?


It all comes from crude oil. You get different sized molecules to turn to vapor at different temperatures. The length of the molecule determines the characteristics of the final product.

simplified, but not over simplified

www.setlaboratories.com
 
2012-12-11 06:59:16 PM

mightybaldking: You think someone would have smelled the difference.
That stuff is thick and greasy smelling, Not at all like gasoline.


This happened in NJ... EVERYTHING is thick and greasy here.
 
2012-12-11 07:00:51 PM

MythDragon: ChipNASA: JP-7?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x235]

There is something awefully farking scary about using the same liquid that you use for fuel as your coolant.


I'd be more concerned about the fuel/coolant pouring out of gaping holes in the fuselage while the aircraft taxis down the runway. That thing leaks like a sieve until it heats up.
 
2012-12-11 08:13:09 PM

LoneVVolf: mightybaldking: You think someone would have smelled the difference.
That stuff is thick and greasy smelling, Not at all like gasoline.

This happened in NJ... EVERYTHING is thick and greasy here.


It wasn't jet fuel. Just a week's supply of hair gel for guidos.
 
2012-12-11 08:43:55 PM

cretinbob: SirTanon: It's okay, I drive one of these:

[www.instablogsimages.com image 394x261]

That's actually funny. I used to have a diesel Rabbit and after fueling up one day I went in to pay and the nice young lady behind the counter stared at me wide eyed and said "You just put diesel in that!?!"
to which I smiled and politely replied " I hope so".

Yes it's a really shiatty article and the answers range from "So what?" to "So what, drain the tank."


SwiftFox: I thought it was diesel fuel being refined fuel oil and jet fuel being refined kerosene?

It all comes from crude oil. You get different sized molecules to turn to vapor at different temperatures. The length of the molecule determines the characteristics of the final product.

simplified, but not over simplified

[www.setlaboratories.com image 600x458]


I find that chart hard to believe. Oil is just a blip on the radar of civilization. We will replace it with rainbows, 3D printers and orbital solar arrays.
 
2012-12-11 08:58:49 PM

LoneVVolf: MythDragon: ChipNASA: JP-7?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x235]

There is something awefully farking scary about using the same liquid that you use for fuel as your coolant.

I'd be more concerned about the fuel/coolant pouring out of gaping holes in the fuselage while the aircraft taxis down the runway. That thing leaks like a sieve until it heats up.


I always wondered what the EPA would think of that.
 
2012-12-11 09:31:44 PM

coffee smells good: ShamanGator: Brother in law had an old Nova we BUILT back in the very early 80's. He liked power & had a good disposable income at the time. He was working at a plane shop at the time & would run 130 octane ave gas on the weekends. Scary power & lots of fun.


CSB, sort of...


You do know octane has nothing to do with the amount of energy in the fuel don't you?


He might. But octane IS a measure of resistance to preignition, and if the engine has insane levels of compression for maximum power, then that kind of fuel might allow advancing timing to "you've gone completely insane" levels, which would indeed result in a real screamer.

But even super enriched octane fuels for racing tend to be in the 108-110 level or thereabouts (if I remember right), so 130 would just be plain overkill.

cretinbob: simplified, but not over simplified


That's a neat pic. I know bugger-all about refining crude, but I did have a general idea about some of the resulting fuels.

MythDragon: I always wondered what the EPA would think of that.


They were likely never asked or told to fark off. National security has been held to trump environmental or employee health concerns.
 
2012-12-11 09:53:14 PM

MythDragon: LoneVVolf: MythDragon: ChipNASA: JP-7?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x235]

There is something awefully farking scary about using the same liquid that you use for fuel as your coolant.

I'd be more concerned about the fuel/coolant pouring out of gaping holes in the fuselage while the aircraft taxis down the runway. That thing leaks like a sieve until it heats up.

I always wondered what the EPA would think of that.


SR-71s get special exemptions from everyone, everywhere, all the time. Simply because they are that awesome.

/no really
//they are
 
2012-12-11 11:47:26 PM

netringer: It's a bit worse when they pump auto fuel (or Av gas) into jet planes.

Kinda hard to pull over and call for a tow when climbing through 3000 feet.


Turbine engines run just fine using 100LL and even auto-gas. You are just limited to the number of hours you can operate while using Mo-gas or Av-gas and the inspection interval is decreased.

In an non-certified engine, you can do whatever. I knew a guy in Texas who ran an F-86 and T-33 while using Jet-A cut 50% with Mo-gas to save on cost.
 
2012-12-12 01:16:47 AM
A friend of mine used to run his junk Skoda diesel pickup on waterlogged A1 discarded from our jumpship and fuel tank. It took 30 seconds to start, but ran fine.
Now that we've changed airplanes (the turbine had more and more problems, and got too expensive to run), 100LL is our new thing. Someone stole about 2 cubic meters of the stuff a few months ago, I hope it rots their catalytic converters :(
 
2012-12-12 10:20:17 AM
Frank Dooley: [panting] Listen... I'm only gonna say this once. I'm a special officer. You have to get me to the corner of 83rd and Aviation in 10 minutes... otherwise, two wonderful people that I know are gonna die.
The Cowboy: Well, climb on in here, Slim.
Frank Dooley: [enters the truck's cab] Whew! Thank you.
The Cowboy: Well, let's just see how fast this son-of-a-biatch'll go!
[the psycho Cowboy truck driver starts up the tanker truck and suddenly begins slaming into all the parked cars in the traffic jam!]
The Cowboy: Hold on tight to your saddle horn, son!
Frank Dooley: So what are you hauling?
The Cowboy: Rocket Fuel!

Might be obscure
 
2012-12-12 02:09:59 PM

maxheck: netringer:

It's a bit worse when they pump auto fuel (or Av gas) into jet planes.

Kinda hard to pull over and call for a tow when climbing through 3000 feet.

I'm just guessing here, but given that regular gasoline is quite a lot more volatile than jet fuel...

"Kinda hard to pull over and call for a tow when engulfed in a fireball.

/ ok, maybe not *quite* that bad, but...


I'm a little late here, but, turbine engines (at least like that in the CRJ for instance) can be rated to run on regular aviation fuel (pretty much just fancy gasoline) for limited periods in case of emergency (stuck in BFE for some reason with no access to Jet fuel), but this isn't good on the engines as they don't get the benefit of the lubricating properties of jet fuel (equivalent of kerosene). So they wouldn't really explode. My understanding is that turbines are pretty tolerant to run on just about anything that is flammable.

The article is ambiguous as to whether this was Jet fuel or regular aviation fuel...jet fuel would be like putting diesel in your car and wouldn't work, but avgas would run ok until the lead plugs up your catalytic convertor. My guess is jet fuel since avgas is produced in fairly tiny quantities (I once heard that avgas comprises less than 1% of gasoline production in the US.)
 
2012-12-12 04:51:59 PM
Sweet. JET-A in a Jetta..
 
2012-12-12 10:02:13 PM

St_Francis_P: See now, if they had diesels everything would have been fine.


Mostly. Diesels can run Jet-A but you should probably put some 2-stroke oil in with the tank.
 
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